Zogby takes a pass on McCain poll
posted at 4:35 pm on November 20, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
After stirring up controversy over whether Obama voters got sufficiently informed by the media about the campaign and the policies, Zogby has curiously declined to conduct the same poll among McCain voters. John Ziegler obtained the funding for the parallel poll, but John Zogby decided not to offer the rebuttal effort:
Pollster John Zogby has rejected a conservative commentator’s offer to sponsor a poll to test the knowledge of people who voted for John McCain. The commentator was proposing to mirror a poll of Obama voters that caused a political uproar.
The results of the earlier poll had suggested that Obama supporters didn’t know what they were voting for.
It also created a firestorm of criticism among liberal bloggers and commentators, who accused Ziegler and Zogby of everything from push-polling to racism. Ziegler challenged his critics to a parallel poll with McCain voters, with a loser-pays-all stake in the outcome. Apparently, the funding appeared, but Zogby lost his nerve:
“I am happy to do a poll of both Obama voters and McCain voters, with questions that I formulated and sponsored either by an objective third party or by someone on the left, in tandem with a John Ziegler on the right – but poll questions that have my signature,” Zogby said.
“I believe there was value in the poll we did,” Zogby added. “I also believe it was not our finest hour. This slipped through the cracks. It came out critical only of Obama voters.”
Oh, please. Zogby can’t be serious. The poll Ziegler commissioned only polled Obama voters, and clearly intended to test their knowledge of the issues and events surrounding the campaign. Now he wants us to believe that somehow his own poll blindsided him? That’s absurd. Zogby conducted the poll, asked the questions, and compiled the results. At what point did this become a surprise to him?
Zogby certainly doesn’t have to take Ziegler’s business, but to claim that this project “slipped through the cracks” doesn’t do anything for Zogby’s credibility. It looks as though Zogby didn’t care for the heat he got for partnering with Ziegler and now wants to make excuses for his decision to do so.
It’s too bad. I think it would have been fun to see how that poll would have turned out. I’m not entirely convinced that McCain voters would have done appreciably better, but at least we’d know. Hot Air readers would have scored 100%, of course.
Blowback
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Yeah, I agree. I don’t think the results would have been a lot different.
lorien1973 on November 20, 2008 at 4:37 PM
McCain voters probably wouldn’t have done a whole lot better, but at least they would have had more to say about William Ayers.
Sir Corky on November 20, 2008 at 4:41 PM
Conservatives have a big enough problem figuring out who are are to waste any more time on figuring out who we were.
Johnny lost. What’s the agenda for tomorrow?
Limerick on November 20, 2008 at 4:42 PM
That’s because they didn’t know what they were voting for. I don’t think any Obama supporter could truly know what he was voting for.
Aronne on November 20, 2008 at 4:42 PM
In another poll 79% of obama voters thought courts should rule based upon fairness, not laws.
That’s far more damning, IMHO.
lorien1973 on November 20, 2008 at 4:43 PM
We don’t need Zogby to tell us about the electorate. All we have to do is watch JayWalking.
Limerick on November 20, 2008 at 4:44 PM
Zogby, according to his Wiki page, describes himself as a Democrat….
Could that be why he does not want to do the second poll which would potentialy PROOVE the results of the first poll?
Romeo13 on November 20, 2008 at 4:45 PM
My hunch is he did do a small sample survey and didn’t like the results. And I do think McCain/Palin voters would have done a lot better.
rlwo2008 on November 20, 2008 at 4:46 PM
They knew exactly what they were voting for. HOPE & CHANGE!
Well, watching the post-election market, everyone’s going to be hoping for some (spare) change soon.
Vic on November 20, 2008 at 4:46 PM
We already had a poll that demonstrated the differences between BHO supporters’ understanding of our government and Constitution and that of McCain supporters (reposted from another Zeigler thread):
BHO happens to fall into the 49% section of his supporters who have no idea what the Constitution is, or how our nation is structured, “If a woman is out there trying to raise a family, trying to support her family, and is being treated unfairly, then the court has to stand up, if nobody else will. And that’s the kind of judge that I want.”
—————————————————-
I have no doubt that questions about other aspects of government would yield the same sorts of differences.
progressoverpeace on November 20, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Knife meet Mr. Ziegler’s back.
Les in NC on November 20, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Ed’s sucking up.
txsurveyor on November 20, 2008 at 4:50 PM
The polling question I’d like to see asked, to see the difference in understanding between the right and the left, is a good Roe v> Wade one:
(mulitple choice answers or true/false offered for each of the following)
1) What is the decision of Roe v. Wade?
2) Where do the rights in Roe v. Wade come from (according to the SCOTUS decision)?
3) If Roe v. Wade were overturned, abortion in the US would be illegal. True or false?
We could go through a whole list of issues like this and the differences would be stark.
progressoverpeace on November 20, 2008 at 4:52 PM
You mean McCain voters wouldn’t have known every published detail about Sarah Palin? No way. I’d bet the farm that we as a group knew far more about our candidates than Obama voters did theirs. But hopey-changey is all ya need to know.
ddrintn on November 20, 2008 at 4:54 PM
Lets do our own? We don’t need no stinkin Zogby signature…Here is a A Poll question, is Barack Obama a Socialist, SEE Joe Biden, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck..you get the idea.
Dr Evil on November 20, 2008 at 4:55 PM
1.) Roe by a TKO
2.) They hide the rights behind the lefts.
3.) What does that have to do with boxing?
Limerick on November 20, 2008 at 4:55 PM
No one voted for Mac on the basis that he would heal the planet, stop the rise of the oceans, deliver world peace or provide absolution for centuries of racial conflict. Unlike the Obots, I think the average McCain voter could provide at least a superficial policy-based argument on his behalf.
Ponz on November 20, 2008 at 4:56 PM
When the left started emitting shrieks of fury, no doubt. Pretty gutless, in my opinion.
ddrintn on November 20, 2008 at 4:56 PM
I would love to take the poll. I get my news from this and other consertive sites and have a good idea about what I am voting for. I am sorry Zogby doesn’t think another poll would be in HIS interest. It would indeed show the knowledge of the d and r voters.
L
letget on November 20, 2008 at 4:57 PM
How about a poll on Sarah Palin voters? I don’t really care to know what rabid, diehard Mccain voters know and don’t know.
HornetSting on November 20, 2008 at 4:59 PM
Imagine the outcry if Zogby conducted the poll and it showed that McCain voters were better informed. That would be hilarious, and probably the reason he’s taking a pass. Some things are better left unsaid and undiscovered, I guess.
ddrintn on November 20, 2008 at 5:01 PM
That would be, well, it would be RRAAACCCIIISSSTT!
HornetSting on November 20, 2008 at 5:02 PM
Damn skippy we would!
4shoes on November 20, 2008 at 5:03 PM
There are more pollsters than Zogby. Get someone else to do it for cryin’ out loud.
cannonball on November 20, 2008 at 5:03 PM
LOL.
progressoverpeace on November 20, 2008 at 5:04 PM
THE REVENGE OF THE RETARDS
Voting studies consistently show that at least 1 /6 of voters, when asked why they voted for their choice as POTUS, have ‘no issue content’ in their answers
translation: There is NO fact or ANY sign of human intelligence in their voting decision.
Another 1/4 vote simply on the basis of ‘good times / bad times”: they know who the incumbent is and they vote for or against him; or they know who the challenger is and vote for or against him. Their answers on their voting decision also have no issue content–only a belief that ‘things are bad’ and a knowledge of who or which party holds office. These are the Hopey-Changey morons who handed us BHO
Comcast’s home page for its internet users has a story on how to recognize liars: one of the signs is that they say “um” and “ah” a lot……….
Janos Hunyadi on November 20, 2008 at 5:05 PM
Could we do ours with an OPalin chant?
Les in NC on November 20, 2008 at 5:06 PM
I LOVE that idea!! I am just imagining what the left’s reaction would be to find out that Palin supporters know tons more about our country and government than BHO supporters! There would be splattered brain (hardly used brain) all over the place.
progressoverpeace on November 20, 2008 at 5:07 PM
I wonder what really scared him off?
eforhan on November 20, 2008 at 5:13 PM
I’m not sure I get this, wasn’t that the point? To show how Obama got elected…? I’ve heard Republicans give reasons why they thought 0bama won, and it didn’t involve skin color, emotion or dislike of Sarah Palin. And these are Republicans for crying out loud! Every single time I hear a democrat talk about 0bama, on tv or in person, they can’t do it without mentioning skin color or hopenchange. The REALITY of it is, the dems just don’t think about policy or character, they just do what feels good and will physically be the most attractive.
4shoes on November 20, 2008 at 5:15 PM
Oh please…. if you took 512 McCain voters with a breakdown like this:
You don’t think well over 43% would know who controls congress? Etc.
I will say one thing though, I wish there had been more questions. I especially enjoy when Barry supporters see a photo of Joe Biden and have no idea who he is, etc. Anyone catch John Stossel’s experiment?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=775_1225423587
My point is only that there should have been more questions. Some of the Obama questions were things that we all SHOULD know, but I’ll admit that many Republicans still wouldn’t, because the mainstream media ignored the stories. Often Fox breezed by them as well, so unless you read blogs, you might not know about Obama launching his career in Ayers’ house, or kicking opponents off of the ballot, etc.
RightWinged on November 20, 2008 at 5:16 PM
Hmm … Looks like Zogby is trying to cut his losses, but I believe he has made a bad decision in this case. IMHO, he has nothing to lose by doing the McCain poll. Nothing at all.
DannoJyd on November 20, 2008 at 5:17 PM
…the Zogster wants to eat crawl before his masters, the in-the-tank establishment press, so the show of contrition, blaming his own product for his product’s outcome….
…if Henry Ford was as willing to throw his product under the bus (had buses existed), we’d all still be in buggies like the Amish….
…the poll shows that Obama voters were “guided” in their decision by the establishment press…and didn’t really know whom they were voting for….
SUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRPPPPPIIIIIISSSSEEEEE! *TWEET*
Puritan1648 on November 20, 2008 at 5:18 PM
Zogby knows that this would validate Ziegler’s argument.
Also, this would also prove that polls are worth zero-squat.
Chuck In Hawaii on November 20, 2008 at 5:21 PM
exactly
Janos Hunyadi on November 20, 2008 at 5:23 PM
This has been done. Look up the book “Before the Shooting Begins”.
gabriel sutherland on November 20, 2008 at 5:23 PM
Jeez Louise you guys, I love this site dearly, and am SOOO grateful that Ed and Allah opened registration right before the election. But I am continually frustrated at some of the whininess and the Monday Morning Quarterbacking: woulda/coulda/shoulda. It’s OVER.
Our candidate sucked, but what’s more, this little experiment of Ziegler’s shows so so clearly that our side was out flanked BIG TIME with the media being in the tank for Obama.
I too believe that McCain voters would have done much better in a mirror poll. But the time has come for conservatives to “Out Democrat the Democrats.” By that, I do not mean abandoning conservative principles, I mean communicating in a very sane, very concise voice what these principles mean…on this, as angry as I am at Peggy Noonan, she is right. We (as a group, movement)have only come off as shrill and kinda pissy. The left has done a very, very good job of painting us this way.
Dang it, NO, it’s NOT fair, it’s not a correct vision of who we are, but Checkmate to them for making the label stick. (I reference the previous thread re: Rush is an angry/nasty/extremist racist and his
listenersfollowers are a bunch of mind-numbed robots. Anyone who listens with any kind of regularity knows that is bunk, but nonethe less, the label sticks. The RNC needs to spend it’s money in the next two years and hire a kick-azz conservative leaning P.R. firm to help us figure out how to get our message out.We HAVE the high ground. The “Masses are Asses” response isn’t winning us any votes. Telling them clearly and concisely what we believe and why we believe it will.
Sorry for the rant. I’m ashamed (not).
Chewy the Lab on November 20, 2008 at 5:25 PM
And had we been registered by ACORN we would have scored…
Amendment X on November 20, 2008 at 5:26 PM
Q: And why did you vote for McCain?
A: Fear and Loathing.
Done That on November 20, 2008 at 5:32 PM
The Masses are not Asses, but a significant percentage of voters do not vote on the basis of their knowledge of the issues. This was true in the 1950s during the first nationwide voting studies of Presidential elections, and it is no less true in 2008.
McCain was not a conservative and not much of a Republican, and ran a poor campaign. So he lost–but Obama benefited from millions of ignorant voters and their annoying ignorance, just as a lot of likely-Republicans sat out the election because McCain had little or nothing of value to say to them.
No one factor decides Presidential elections in the USA, but Stupid Voters were especially prominent in this one
Janos Hunyadi on November 20, 2008 at 5:33 PM
What message? The GOP has none to speak of today.
We desperately need another Newt.
DannoJyd on November 20, 2008 at 5:33 PM
Just to play devil’s advocate here:
Had Zogby said that, “due to the vast exposure of the Ziegler vid a follow up McCain poll would have been tainted”, he could have saved a lot of face. However, his lame excuse for not conducting the poll makes him look weak.
I do think that McCain supporters would have done much better given the same poll.
IYAAYAS on November 20, 2008 at 5:48 PM
The voters weren’t “stupid”, they were uninformed. The point of Ziegler’s project is that this election was a case of media malpractice. The media did not do its job to inform the voters about Obama and Biden.
And any conservative who thinks that McCain voters wouldn’t do better on this poll are being far too diplomatic. There is a reason why Ziegler was so willing to offer his bet. He knows McCain voters will do better. And there is a reason why Zogby won’t poll McCain voters. He also knows they’ll do better. This is obvious.
ramrocks on November 20, 2008 at 5:58 PM
What message???? Are you serial???? How about, Life? “I respect your legal right to choose, but overturning Roe v. Wade would simply put it back in the states’ lap: states could then decide whether to allow abortions or not. And, btw, if we would articulate this issue better, we wouldn’t be painted as evangelical zealots.
How ’bout talking about personal responsibility and opportunity that exists for those that help themselves? “We won’t give you the fish, but by golly we will teach you HOW to fish?”
How about expanding on the stuff that Bill Cosby was excoriated for saying: that the family matters, that minorities NEED to grab the brass ring and fight hard to educate their kids. (Isn’t the president elect the perfect example that anyone can achieve anything in the U.S. if they have the drive and desire?)
How about articulating in a clear way how more government is the problem rather than the solution. No bail outs for corporations, and no bail outs for individuals either. Show people how the advance of government programs actually perpetuates poverty, doesn’t solve it (that tired old Biblical analogy about fishing again).
I could go on and on, but the bottom line is we HAVE the right message, we need to articulate it and quit looking angry in the process.
Chewy the Lab on November 20, 2008 at 6:02 PM
Is it sucking up if it’s true? :)
Sir Corky on November 20, 2008 at 6:09 PM
you’re wrong: they were stupid, because they made a consequential decision affecting all of us without knowing what a high school student should know. Their statements make their stupidity clear.
Being uninformed about something is not stupid ‘per se’ if you don’t act on what you don’t know– but these people did, and seem either defiant about their ignorance
Anyone who has no idea of what the current political situation is should not vote. The Constitution leaves most aspects of voting up to the states–and most states had property restrictions on either voting or holding political office ( or both ) in the 1780s
Literacy tests were a device used by Southern states to disenfranchise Blacks, but some sort of basic nationwide test similar to that given to citizenship applicants can be made a requirement for registering to vote
Janos Hunyadi on November 20, 2008 at 6:09 PM
Hog Wild on November 20, 2008 at 6:12 PM
They’da found some ignoramuses to interview who thonk barry is a muslim.
The spin job would’ve made us look as bad…..but it would’ve taken work, rather than just turning on the camera like with Barrys folks.
(Which he was)
John The Baptist on November 20, 2008 at 6:14 PM
Past tense that is
John The Baptist on November 20, 2008 at 6:18 PM
Chewy:
Exactly! The poll prooved that the media was in the tank for Obama. (although the dummies should have known who controlled congress!) I heard, on CBS, that only 1/3 of college students knew what the three branches of government were! Amazing! It used to be that every eighth grader knew the three branches of government.
Vince on November 20, 2008 at 6:22 PM
They’da found some ignoramuses to interview who thonk barry is a muslim.
The spin job would’ve made us look as bad…..but it would’ve taken work, rather than just turning on the camera like with Barrys folks.
(Which he was)
John The Baptist on November 20, 2008 at 6:14 PM
Love ya, but that’s just the sort of “Oh well, we’re doomed” attitude that turns me from a cuddly little lap horse into a rabid watch dog.
Chewy the Lab on November 20, 2008 at 6:23 PM
The three branches are The Nina, The Pinta and The Santa Maria, right??? Sarc
Chewy the Lab on November 20, 2008 at 6:26 PM
Chewy: You know, I was thinking that as I typed.
Really, they are Larry, Moe & Curley. Yuk, yuk, yuk!
Vince on November 20, 2008 at 6:38 PM
Our masses aren’t asses, theirs are. If they wish to quit being asses, they can join us. :D
ddrintn on November 20, 2008 at 6:41 PM
They actually thought they were informed. They didn’t know what they didn’t know. The gal in the pink sweater was by far the most sympathetic Obama supporter IMHO. She actually expressed at the end that she is not as informed as she thought she was and seemed genuinely disturbed by that. She didn’t strike me as being “stupid”. She was just uninformed. These people actually did watch the news and read the paper. That is how people traditionally become “informed”. When the news media and the the newspapers don’t report the whole story, people remain ignorant from no fault of their own. You could argue that they should have known who controls Congress and who Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, etc. are because those things are reported in the media (though how many times do they point out during the nightly news that Harry and Nancy are Democrats?). But the real questions that had ramifications for this election were the questions about Obama and Biden’s records, and those stories were not covered in the MSM. So, again, these people were uninformed even though they did the sort of things one would do to be informed.
I say, Amen to that. I’ve often felt that some sort of test should be applied to voting. But we would never be able to get that in law — not with the horrible history of Jim Crow Laws in our past. The reason why we mandate that high school seniors take a semester of Civics is to ensure that we have an educated electorate. It’s a shame we can’t have some sort of Civics test requirement for voting. I mean, we test people before they can get a drivers license. Why not test them before they can decide the fate of the free world?
ramrocks on November 20, 2008 at 6:41 PM
Hmph. I didn’t realize that Obama won his first election by kicking all his opponents off the ballot.
Pretty funny that everybody thought that was a GOP trick.
angelat0763 on November 20, 2008 at 6:52 PM
I think the cat’s outta the bag and any results, no matter how they turned out, would be suspect.
BigWyo on November 20, 2008 at 7:01 PM
Well, why would the Dems or media even bother pushing for an actual McCain poll?? Just say it was done and just say McCain voters were worse idiots.
Make it up the way they do other news. It’s not like CBS would tell if NBC made up the poll,, or CNN would tell if some Dem made up a fake poll. They’d all just report it and that would be that.
I really do not think we are that far off from news being completely made up the way they want it. Once talk radio is shut down and the internet is silenced,, then a new Sedition act could be passed and,, well, the media can just sit around like sit com writers and make up whatever news they want. Who would ever know?
JellyToast on November 20, 2008 at 7:08 PM
Why not have someone else do the same poll? Why does it have to be Zogby?
DaveS on November 20, 2008 at 7:08 PM
‘Stupid’ is when you don’t know what you should know
‘ignorant’ is when you don’t know what you don’t need to know.
If you vote in a Presidential election without knowing what the issues are, or most ( or any ) basic facts about the current political situation, you are stupid. All elections have Stupid Voters; this one had a significantly high numbers of them in the Obama camp.
I’m not saying these people cost McCain the election; McCain did. He lost because many Republicans voters stayed home–because he didn’t give them a reason to support him–because he isn’t much of a Republican
But Obama and his trogs crafted a campaign designed to pull in stupid voters in record numbers, and their efforts paid off. Many BHO voters decided simply on the basis of Voting Against Whitey, and I’ll classify that as Stupid
it’s actually much worse……..
Janos Hunyadi on November 20, 2008 at 7:24 PM
Even better was how he did it. He attacked the signatures on their petitions!
From NRO:
Interesting.
progressoverpeace on November 20, 2008 at 7:33 PM
McCain voters certainly weren’t voting for him, because he is young, cool, historic or because we actually like the man. It stands to reason they would have a grasp of the issues, since that was the only reason to vote for McCain: reduced spending, divided government and a strong national security.
chunderroad on November 20, 2008 at 7:34 PM
I’d venture that a true random sampling of the same # of McCain/palin voters would have had a statistically relevant difference from the Obama poll just completed. When a poll has 4 multiple questions, if people knew nothing and just randomly guessed, then 25 % would get the right answer. What does it say when they have 4 multiple choice questions and score less than 25 %. to me, it says they “think” they know things that they, in fact, don’t know.
Red State State of Mind on November 20, 2008 at 7:59 PM
I’m afraid that doing a McCain poll now would be too little too late.
First of all, unless the results show McCain supporters to be utter simpletons, the left will simply cry ‘fraud’ with the accusation that Zieglar didn’t want to discredit his first poll. Second of all I’m not sure that a McCain version wouldn’t end up doing just that…for as much as we’d like for this poll to be carved-in-stone proof that Obama voters are all idiots, something tells me his opposition’s voters just may not be that much smarter.
Dark-Star on November 20, 2008 at 8:02 PM
I would tend to disagree, not because McCain supporters were somehow mentally superior to Obama supporters, but because a good many Republicans know not to swallow whole what the MSM dishes out. At least, more Republicans may have that attitude than Democrats, and may be more likiely to find info elsewhere.
ddrintn on November 20, 2008 at 9:21 PM
Zogby is a chicken sheeeit…No one’s gonna invite Zogby to a cocktail party anyway so, what does he have to lose?
Gohawgs on November 20, 2008 at 9:57 PM
The guy in the picture is perfect, a little Obama fem who looks like he doesn’t know he’s an Omega male.
Jaibones on November 20, 2008 at 10:16 PM
The results of the earlier poll
had suggestedproved that Obama supporters didn’t know a damn thing about the guywhatthey were voting for.Fixed
Basilsbest on November 20, 2008 at 11:01 PM
I always make 100% of course the bus I ride is very short.
Kaptain Amerika on November 20, 2008 at 11:04 PM
I agrre with Ed.> “I think it would have been fun to see how that poll would have turned out. I’m not entirely convinced that McCain voters would have done appreciably better”, after reading the comments here and in the other thread on this subject. Here is just one reply to me from the other thread:>
The title of that thread was>
“Video: How Obama Got Elected; Update: Zogby confirms POLL, denies “push polling””
Chimpy on November 20, 2008 at 11:35 PM
Yeah, well, it’s still a pretty safe bet that people here know that Democrats control Congress.
ddrintn on November 21, 2008 at 1:01 AM
Allah,
So, a majority of the electorate voted to increase Federal handouts because they felt, in part, that a significant portion of the population was receiving a sub-standard public shcool education.
And a majority of this, admitted, sub-par educated populace voted for Obama?
QED…
LexisTexas2 on November 21, 2008 at 2:59 AM
Sounds wonderful. Damn shame that no one got that message in the last election cycle due to McAmnesty demanding that we play nice with The One, and today the GOP’s message is this.
Conservatives stayed home this year. Now the remaining republicans are going to play nice with the socialists. The only way your message will be heard is if you, along with a few hundred thousand more like you, get off the couch and push it in person.
Push it like I did, or forget about it.
DannoJyd on November 21, 2008 at 9:25 AM
Well see if I ever believe another zogby poll.
Just another mutt looking to make a buck.
ColdWarrior57 on November 21, 2008 at 11:08 AM
what is a poll? it would amaze most people how polls are conducted.
TomLawler on November 21, 2008 at 4:41 PM