Auto bailout on life support? Update: Big 3 play the defense card
posted at 9:55 am on November 20, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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After the spectacle of the Big Three’s CEOs flying on private jets to talk about how badly they need cash, Harry Reid made a wise move in canceling a vote today on a bailout proposal. Congressional backers have started scaling back their proposals, while neither management nor labor appears willing to act on their own to resolve the crisis in Detroit:
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., canceled plans Wednesday for a vote on a bill to carve $25 billion in new auto industry loans out of the $700 billion Wall Street rescue fund. The Bush administration and congressional Republicans have rejected Democrats’ plan to dip into that pot of money. …
The leaders of General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC painted a grim picture of their financial position during two days of congressional hearings, warning that the collapse of the auto industry could lead to the loss of 3 million jobs. Detroit’s automakers, hurt by a sharp drop in sales and a nearly frozen credit market, burned through nearly $18 billion in cash reserves during the last quarter, and GM and Chrysler both said they could collapse in weeks.
“I don’t believe we have the luxury of a lot of time,” GM CEO Rick Wagoner told a House hearing.
Alan Mulally, the CEO of Ford Motor Co., said the company had sufficient cash reserves to make it through 2009. But United Auto Workers union president Ron Gettelfinger said a bankruptcy could spawn others.
“If there’s a Chapter 11 (for) one of the companies, it will drag at least one other with them, if not all of them. And I do not believe Chapter 11 is where it will end. It will go to liquidation,” he said ominously.
So we have management talking about how badly their companies have performed, and labor talking about how badly their companies have performed. It seems that the two sides with the most at stake understand at least that their enterprises have flopped. Will either of them budge on compensation at all levels? Scale back wages for both workers and management, sell off the corporate jets, conserve capital for reorganizing their business?
Of course not. They want to continue doing what brought them to the brink of liquidation, but they want taxpayers to pick up the tab. Michael Capuano (D-MA) put it best: “My fear is that you’re going to take this money and continue the same stupid decisions you’ve made for 25 years.” That’s exactly what they want to do — and the bailout would enable them to avoid making other tough choices … for a couple of years, at best.
What makes this even more ridiculous is that Congress has already voted to provide Detroit with $25 billion in loans. That came in September as part of an effort to help the Big Three modernize for more energy-efficient vehicles, something apparently that a private company couldn’t do on their own if the market existed for the products. The White House wants Congress to authorize those loans for the purposes of the bailout instead, while the Democrats want to give them an additional $25 billion from the Treasury rescue plan on top of the energy loans.
I wonder if those energy-efficient vehicles include private jets? Mulally takes two flights per week in one of them for Ford. What’s the greenhouse-gas profile on that?
Stupid decisions don’t deserve subsidies. Let the Big Three iron out their own problems. When labor and management start sacrificing to save their companies, then we’ll know a problem really exists. If they don’t care enough to change, why should we care enough to invest in them?
Update: How desperate has Detroit become? They’re now warning that a failure to provide them loans will leave the US defenseless:
In an increasingly anxious campaign for a $25 billion government rescue, Detroit’s Big Three car makers and their allies in Washington are warning the demise of the auto industry will damage U.S. national security.
That argument is a hard sell.
General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC long ago exited the defense business. While many of their suppliers also make the parts used on military vehicles and would be hit by the wave if one of the Big Three collapsed, defense experts see little immediate risk to the armed forces beyond paying higher prices.
Let’s see. Will it damage national security to have three companies who don’t do defense work go into Chapter 11? “Hard sell” doesn’t begin to describe that argument.
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the chicken little routine is getting old
gatorboy on November 20, 2008 at 9:57 AM
systemic risk! martial law! nashunel secuwity!
/chicken little
lodge on November 20, 2008 at 9:59 AM
Here is the email I received from GM yesterday about the ‘bailout’, the one they sent denying this is a ‘bailout’:
Dear XXXXXXXXXXXX,
You made the right choice when you put your confidence in General Motors, and we appreciate your past support. I want to assure you that we are making our best vehicles ever, and we have exciting plans for the future. But we need your help now. Simply put, we need you to join us to let Congress know that a bridge loan to help U.S. automakers also helps strengthen the U.S. economy and preserve millions of American jobs.
Despite what you may be hearing, we are not asking Congress for a bailout but rather a loan that will be repaid.
The U.S. economy is at a crossroads due to the worldwide credit crisis, and all Americans are feeling the effects of the worst economic downturn in 75 years. Despite our successful efforts to restructure, reduce costs and enhance liquidity, U.S. auto sales rely on access to credit, which is all but frozen through traditional channels.
The consequences of the domestic auto industry collapsing would far exceed the $25 billion loan needed to bridge the current crisis. According to a recent study by the Center for Automotive Research:
• One in 10 American jobs depends on U.S. automakers
• Nearly 3 million jobs are at immediate risk
• U.S. personal income could be reduced by $150 billion
• The tax revenue lost over 3 years would be more than $156 billion
Discussions are now underway in Washington, D.C., concerning loans to support U.S. carmakers. I am asking for your support in this vital effort by contacting your state representatives.
Please take a few minutes to go to http://www.gmfactsandfiction.com, where we have made it easy for you to contact your U.S. senators and representatives. Just click on the “I’m a Concerned American” link under the “Mobilize Now” section, and enter your name and ZIP code to send a personalized e-mail stating your support for the U.S. automotive industry.
Let me assure you that General Motors has made dramatic improvements over the last 10 years. In fact, we are leading the industry with award-winning vehicles like the Chevrolet Malibu, Cadillac CTS, Buick Enclave, Pontiac G8, GMC Acadia, Chevy Tahoe Hybrid, Saturn AURA and more. We offer 18 models with an EPA estimated 30 MPG highway or better — more than Toyota or Honda. GM has 6 hybrids in market and 3 more by mid-2009. GM has closed the quality gap with the imports, and today we are putting our best quality vehicles on the road.
Please share this information with friends and family using the link on the site.
Thank you for helping keep our economy viable.
Sincerely,
Troy Clarke
madmonkphotog on November 20, 2008 at 10:00 AM
Let us all pray someone sane can get the Bush admin to listen to Jim Manzi.
matoko_chan on November 20, 2008 at 10:02 AM
The Auto guys say the jets and salary, etc. are non-negotiable. Meaning the big-wigs would rather have their companies fail then give up their life-style.
This is why they fail, their priorities are themselves and not the business.
Let them fail, move in and make sure every supplier is paid, every hourly is paid, then what is left over, the salary can be paid out of.
Let’s see how fast they “negotiate” the non-negotiable.
Imagine, someone make 25mil a year and says they can’t move their family from Seattle to Detroit(so they need a private jet)…tens of thousands of workers would move their family for $100,000 per year.
right2bright on November 20, 2008 at 10:03 AM
If even half of all this is true, those CEO’s and the UAW sound like some of the most arrogant people on the planet. They sound as if they are entitled to this money and those who can’t see that are really stupid. I suppose they think of it as “playing hardball” but the American public is not going to see it this way. We are going to see it as getting fleeced. I was(sort of)in favor of some help before, but now I don’t care. Apparently this industry has lived and grown under the impression they were sacro-sanct. Time to rain on their parade I think.
jeanie on November 20, 2008 at 10:03 AM
“A loan that will be repaid”? Riiiiiiight. All this bailout(or whatever they want to call it) will do is delay the inevitable, while pissing away $25-50 billion in the process.
Props to Bush and the GOP for not caving on this one. We all know Obama and the Dem Congress will pass the bailout the moment he’s sworn in, but this ensures that they and they alone will bear full responsibility for it.
Doughboy on November 20, 2008 at 10:04 AM
Pound salt Detroit - I have my own bills to pay - I can’t afford to mine and yours.
jake-the-goose on November 20, 2008 at 10:05 AM
Pound salt Detroit - I have my own bills to pay - I can’t afford to pay mine and yours.
jake-the-goose on November 20, 2008 at 10:06 AM
chapter 11 would get the pensions and other UAW crap off the books then the big three might have a chance
400 million to the DNC this election
give these people money, you only feed their addiction.
can’t we just wait till The One comes is so He gets this price tag on his watch
the republicans are at fault for sure
free enterprise should allow GM/F/CH to fail
it worked with the airlines
I want to see the UAW making major concessions to keep their jobs, Toyota workers don’t seem to have all the perks strapping their company down
audiotom on November 20, 2008 at 10:06 AM
Well than - maybe we will really see car prices come down.
jake-the-goose on November 20, 2008 at 10:07 AM
It’s not so much running out of gas as they are stalling for time. They are just avoiding dissent from lame ducks. First session of congress 2009 will see a different outlook my dear comrades.
Egfrow on November 20, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Exactly. Just another example of the failed policies of the obama administration.
Vashta.Nerada on November 20, 2008 at 10:07 AM
In chapter 7 we can get rid of the whole damn lot and then Mittens can buy up the plant and start making the business work.
lodge on November 20, 2008 at 10:11 AM
A response to this debacle I read today says it all I think,
“This “bailout” is in essence forcing every taxpayer to buy a Ford/Chev/Dodge without the added burden of having to provide them with an actual vehicle.”
Jim708 on November 20, 2008 at 10:11 AM
Time to convert some production lines from cars to equipment for the military. Lots of tanks, planes, and armored personnel carriers were blown up or worn out in Iraq.
Just put the assets in the hands of companies that made what the military needs, and bring union wages in line with what successful, competitive firms pay their workers.
Right_of_Attila on November 20, 2008 at 10:11 AM
I don’t want them to get a bailout, but I also don’t want their bankruptcy to destroy my portfolio.
BadgerHawk on November 20, 2008 at 10:13 AM
You’re onto something big with that. Let’s hang the Bush albatross around Obama’s neck as often as possible.
BadgerHawk on November 20, 2008 at 10:14 AM
Props to Bush and the GOP for not caving on this one. We all know Obama and the Dem Congress will pass the bailout the moment he’s sworn in, but this ensures that they and they alone will bear full responsibility for it.
Doughboy on November 20, 2008 at 10:04 AM
Correct me if I am wrong, but don’t the dems already have the power to override a Bush veto on this? This is what we have to look forward to for the next 4 years? Nothing being done because they will not have republicans to hide behind and say it’s “their fault”? I am quite sure there are many cities where the could build plants… and workers, non union, would be thrilled to be paid half of what union workers make. Mobile, Al. would be one place that would love to have this chance since the boeing unions sued the government to block them from building the tanker jets.
roflmao… Where the plants ever upgraded from the carter years when more than half of the cars were getting 30 mpg in the city? Highway mileage of 30 mpg means what, maybe 17 or 18 in the city. Let them fail.
brianpierre on November 20, 2008 at 10:16 AM
It’s not so much the portfolio as the Pension Benefit Guarantee Trust that I worry about. Everyone that still has a pension has that risk, after the portfolio losses. Basically, you lose twice if you have a pension plan.
Vashta.Nerada on November 20, 2008 at 10:16 AM
That sounds pretty good to me right now.
Vashta.Nerada on November 20, 2008 at 10:18 AM
How about they get the bailout and destroy the companies anyway?
forest on November 20, 2008 at 10:18 AM
That’s what it should read!
grapeknutz on November 20, 2008 at 10:18 AM
The same year, Henry Ford shocked the world with what probably stands as his greatest contribution ever: the $5-a-day minimum-wage scheme. The average wage in the auto industry then was $2.34 for a 9-hr. shift. Ford not only doubled that, he also shaved an hour off the workday.
And then,
how did his gratified communist c******ker workers repay him?
They formed unions
It’s been downhill, ever since.
franksalterego on November 20, 2008 at 10:21 AM
Let me say again:
If the Big 3 get a bailout I will never buy one of their vehicles again. Never.
We should all take this approach and we should all call congress and tell them that. Millions of people need to call Congress and say “If you vote for a Big 3 bailout I will never vote for you again. And if the Big 3 bailout passes I will never buy one of their products again.”
A large scale boycott of the Big 3 would hurt them a whole lot more than a bailout would help.
t.ferg on November 20, 2008 at 10:28 AM
I bet you dollars to donuts, our September bailout shills are against this bailout because it doesn’t hit their pocket books now.
We need to have the courage to do with the Auto industry what we should have done for wall street. Do nothing! And if they fail, watch the free market work as the strong fiscally responsible companies feast off the rotting carcass’s of the big three.
And then we REAL conservatives can enjoy some delicious schadenfreude as the bailout shills have to eat their words!
csdeven on November 20, 2008 at 10:28 AM
someone explain how GM can quickly convert their factory to build THIS
this isn’t WW2 when they were just building crappy open top jeeps to cart generals around. sheesh
lodge on November 20, 2008 at 10:28 AM
They don’t have the votes right now. The Senate is still 51-49 Dems(including Leiberman and Sanders). And the GOP and Bush want no part of this.
The Dems might have enough to override a veto come January 20. Of course by then that’ll be a moot point since Obama will be President.
Like I said, let the Dems own this one. Pelosi forced the GOP’s hand on the previous bailout, but she won’t get away with that this time.
Doughboy on November 20, 2008 at 10:29 AM
Even when The One takes office. They better not give the Car Companies any money. I will flood my reps. with calls and faxes! They need to go down. Start over and keep the Union out!
sheebe on November 20, 2008 at 10:31 AM
The big three and the unions need to realize that the party is over. We cannot afford their lifestyle, payroll/benefit plan, or political affiliations any longer.
Enjoy chapter 11!
Dukehoopsfan on November 20, 2008 at 10:31 AM
“those CEO’s and the UAW sound like some of the most arrogant people on the planet.”
BINGO!
:-(
Buckaroo on November 20, 2008 at 10:32 AM
These guys don’t understand that perception is everything. Many years ago, I obtained a large venture capital infusion from a very conservative VC in Boston. One of the things we played up was that we were frugal. A few weeks later, I was speaking at a securities conference in Boston and they asked me to stop by and give them an update. The conference had booked me at a very expensive Five star hotel (at my expense). When I saw the price I told them I couldn’t stay and checked in to a $99 room at a Holiday Inn. I didn’t realize the VC had asked my secretary for my schedule which listed the Five Star hotel. The minute I sat down he started on how I was so frugal with my money, but not with his. While he was ranting on, I pulled out the key to the room at the Holiday Inn. He said, “I thought I’d given the money to the right guy. You just proved it.” He never hesitated to give us more money when we needed it and he ended up making ten times his investment in three years.
flyoverland on November 20, 2008 at 10:32 AM
Bankruptcy - busting more unions than William Howard Taft.
Tacitus_SGL on November 20, 2008 at 10:33 AM
Hell, me and thousands of additional investors will pool our money together and buy up the big three at fire sale prices. Any tooling for defense projects go along with the deal and the contracts as well. AND we can sell to the DoD at reduced rates because we aren’t going to pay lazy bastards $57 an hour to do something that is only worth $25 an hour.
I’m getting a financial chubby just thinking about it!
csdeven on November 20, 2008 at 10:33 AM
I’m young, so I have lots of time to remake my money. I didn’t buy a single thing this year until the DOW went under 10k, but I’m still down about 20% since then. I am getting an averaged 5.1% annual return from dividends, so long as they don’t get cut.
I can’t imagine what this is like for someone who’s only a year or two away from retirement.
BadgerHawk on November 20, 2008 at 10:34 AM
We can only hope they’ll be out of business by then. These must fail in order to start over again.
kcluva on November 20, 2008 at 10:36 AM
Am I the only one that choked a little when I read that?
pinkelephants on November 20, 2008 at 10:42 AM
They got a lot of nerve. The sense/stench of entitlement is overwhelming.
ronsfi on November 20, 2008 at 10:42 AM
Obama’s honeymoon is going to end in the first week of his presidency if he gives these chumps, and every other chump after them, a bailout.
BigD on November 20, 2008 at 10:44 AM
I’m about 15 years away, so I can make up the investment losses once we throw the clown out of office, but I am staying at my present firm because they have a defined benefit plan in addition to a 401K. I don’t want a bailout of the big 3, but also don’t want the automakers to drop their pension plan into the lap of the PBGT.
Most of the people I talk to that are one or two years away from retirement have realized that they are no longer one or two years away anymore.
Vashta.Nerada on November 20, 2008 at 10:44 AM
More delicious socialism.
Dave Rywall on November 20, 2008 at 10:46 AM
Money quote…
right2bright on November 20, 2008 at 10:53 AM
The scary thing is that you’re not saying that sarcastically.
BadgerHawk on November 20, 2008 at 10:55 AM
They have a small point here only in the speed and convenience of plant conversion if it were to be necessary.
But it is still a strawman argument for several reasons. For one, how could they support the war effort by building the war machinery from products, like, um, steel, that they’d have to get from overseas: Nice plant you got there, GM, but ya still can’t build our tanks.
Anyway, saying ‘let the big three go bankrupt’ is not saying let them go out of business, it’s saying let them restructure so as to be profitable. If the current people there cannot, someone else will take it over and we’ll still have much of the infrastructure.
Lastly, anyone think that continuing to finance the Big 3’s unending failure with the attendant consequence of dragging the country into second class power status, helps out in defense of the country?
Dusty on November 20, 2008 at 10:56 AM
Wow–we’re right on target here at HotAir. The Precious will bail them out because he owes the unions bigtime. But, it will be his bailout. And that will help Republicans. Unfortunately, it will also be bad for our national debt. At least there’s one small silver lining.
kelley in virginia on November 20, 2008 at 10:56 AM
The government sucks. They collect more in taxes than an auto industry collapse would cost the people who work in it.
BadgerHawk on November 20, 2008 at 11:02 AM
The tax revenue might be lost if the Big 3 go to Chapter 11, but Precious will just raise taxes everywhere else to compensate. Well, he’ll do that anyway, even when he bails them out.
kelley in virginia on November 20, 2008 at 11:06 AM
That’s why, in this economic climate, cash is king.
eanax on November 20, 2008 at 11:08 AM
These are the same tactics used to sell bailouts in the first place
tomas on November 20, 2008 at 11:18 AM
Translation: “Our business is so unproductive, it’s not even worth its value in scrap metal.”
And this is the argument FOR giving them a loan?
logis on November 20, 2008 at 11:25 AM
Maybe they should lay on the floor and throw temper tantrums! I love those!
Mr_Magoo on November 20, 2008 at 11:26 AM
Yeah, well it all depends on how a Dem Congressman defines “stupid”. Conservatives would tend to agree on what their stupid decisions are but Dems would probably call SUVs and Mini-Vans “stupid” while praising tiny little vehicles which do not accommodate families but purport to “save the planet”. When I hear Capuano demand that the UAW make meaningful concessions, I’ll be impressed.
Not sure what you’re getting at here. They are private companies with huge federal mandates.
Buy Danish on November 20, 2008 at 11:28 AM
There is an union worker for Ford that goes to my VFW. All he does is rant against “scabs”, about he was laid off. I asked him what he was doing for income while being laid off. he said he gets 85% of his salary and health bennies paid, plus contiuned retirement benefits paid. I asked how’s that gonna work for you when you go Chapter 11 and the rest of us buy Toyota’s and Kia’s?. he then said if the Big 3 go under , so do the others. I said BS the non union manufacturers can find parts elsewhere, may take awhile but they can. I guess my point is, Call the UAW and Big 3’s bluff. it’s about time.
MNDavenotPC on November 20, 2008 at 11:35 AM
So? For every dollar Obama gives to the unions, he’ll give ten more in Welfare.
There’re only two ways to play the game: either smile and tell EVERYBODY to shove it like Reagan did; or go whole hog and always promise bigger handouts than all your opponents do.
Moderation in politics is a chump’s game. Once you agree that the government has “free money” to give away, you end up looking like the world’s biggest a–hole when you turn around and get stingy with it.
logis on November 20, 2008 at 11:37 AM
I’m on the ‘let it fail’ bandwagon - I would love to see the auto companies renegotiate those union contracts that make them uncompetitive.
I can’t fault these guys for using private jets.
That is a BS tactic that is not brought up when Al ‘Carbon Credit’ Gore or any number of bigwigs fly into DC on any given day.
That said, I think it would have been great if each of these guys had arrived in a vehicle produced from their own companies. Whether it be a luxurious gas guzzler or a an economy hybrid I think that would have made a great PR stunt.
The realistic side is these guys probably have agendas that justify their use of private jets - and they can’t really spend 4 days driving across the country and back to appear before Congress.
Opportunity missed, I guess - and the blogs are jumping all over this as some sort of ‘over the top’ extravagance being flaunted by the elite auto bigs.
This is a ridiculous attack line.
Mr Purple on November 20, 2008 at 11:45 AM
All of you who want to see the auto companies close.
Ponder this in your brand new big 3 and going to the dealer for warranty work. Is the dealer going to go broke fixing your car for free?
How about the rebates is the dealer going to pass on the rebates and get back pennies on the dollar?
Do you know that auto plants have their own power supply that is not tied into the grid in case there is an attack on the power plants? Did you know the plants were built with extra thick concrete in case they are bombed and can get back into production?
God I hope Honda and Toyota can build our military machines.
Do you know that they have union contracts in place that will eleminate much of the legacy cost over time?
Mr. Paul on November 20, 2008 at 11:46 AM
Reminds me of those in Atlas Shrugged who didn’t want the responsibility of a good decision on their shoulders. We already have Congress and the President avoiding the unsustainable entitlement mess (soc sec, medicare, others), now we have labor and management of the US auto industry completely unwilling to do what has to be done to become profitable. The workers will crucify anyone who takes anything away from them, just as US citizens will vote out anyone who dares cut back on Social Security or Medicare. Once people start receiving unearned money, it’s really hard to stop giving it to them. Maybe it’s impossible.
Paul-Cincy on November 20, 2008 at 11:52 AM
That’s just the issue… they wouldn’t close. Chap 11 doesn’t close doors. that is the real BS being slung around. The UAW and CEO’s don’t want to lose the companies anymore than anyone else. better to put the cash cow on a diet( Chap 11) than gore it. Did I actually use the word Gore in a proper context?…. wow!
MNDavenotPC on November 20, 2008 at 11:53 AM
He’ll not only give the auto companies a bailout, but he’ll also sign the Employee Free Choice Act into law. I disagree however that it’ll cause a premature end to the honeymoon.
Now if he follows this up with additional bailouts which inevitably drive up the deficit to astronomical figures and is forced to raise taxes which in turn drives into a depression…..well, I think a lot of the media will still suck up to the guy, but yeah, a good chunk of the electorate will turn on him.
Doughboy on November 20, 2008 at 12:01 PM
Ford goes down another 15 cents, they might get de-listed…
Vashta.Nerada on November 20, 2008 at 12:10 PM
We could always drop unsold SUVs from our gunships onto Taliban below if we run out of weapons.
PattyJ on November 20, 2008 at 12:12 PM
The use of personal jets for business, I really don’t have much of a problem…but flying back and forth every weekend because his family doesn’t want to move? No way…That is close to $50,000 per week for him because he took a $25 mill a year job, and his family or he doesn’t want to move.
Until the heads of the companies decide to make a sacrifice…why should we make a sacrifice? Let them cut back to $5 mill a year (that is a livable wage), have the unions cut back, promise a re-tooling, and then we can talk about bailing those spoiled brats out.
right2bright on November 20, 2008 at 12:30 PM
GRRRRR!!!!
GM was at $2.00/share not long ago and I put in my bid for several hundred shares.
Didn’t get accepted. Now it’s at $2.47 and climbing after GMAC’s little ‘were actually a bank’ ploy.
THOSE BA#@$%^s!
Mr Purple on November 20, 2008 at 12:31 PM
Can someone tell me who in the Senate ask the question as to how the big 3 ceo’s got to Washington.
driver on November 20, 2008 at 12:33 PM
Well, good try, but GM has been out of defense building for quite awhile…and I don’t know any auto plant made to withstand current bombs, you are talking about WWII plants, which is one of the problems we have. Rather then rebuilding a plant, they pay $25mill year salary, and private jets for personal use.
Sorry, but isn’t it about time we teach the owners of companies that when they screw up, they have to be held responsible…key word is responsible…and that goes for the unions.
right2bright on November 20, 2008 at 12:35 PM
Personally I want a car that doesn’t need a warranty and especially one that needs work in the first 3 years after it rolls off of the line. Call me silly. If the car comes of of the line $5000 cheaper than a big 3 car and is better quality, why would the dealer need to give rebates to sell a car? Rebates are a gimmick.
Actually I knew these things, but I also know that Brookley Field in Mobile, Al. is also set up the same way, no unions though sorry.
brianpierre on November 20, 2008 at 12:35 PM
WOW!
OK, I bought at around $2.50 up to $2.65 seconds later????
Something big happened.
Mr Purple on November 20, 2008 at 12:36 PM
$3.00!!!
Mr Purple on November 20, 2008 at 12:37 PM
$Holy @#$%!!! it’s going UP AND UP AND UP!
Mr Purple on November 20, 2008 at 12:38 PM
….and it levels…..dangit!
Mr Purple on November 20, 2008 at 12:39 PM
Here’s a bit of what George Will, which adds some useful facts (with some sensible opinions) to the discussion:
As for what Obama will do, the Communist Party USA is cheering his election and touting their help as influential unionistas in accomplishing that goal. The “employee free choice act” will be a small part of the payoff.
Buy Danish on November 20, 2008 at 12:40 PM
Here’s a link to GM stock price activity. At 3:33 as I type this.
No clue as to why it’s happening :)
Buy Danish on November 20, 2008 at 12:45 PM
Apparently a deal of some sort has been struck.
Perhaps a big rebound overall in the market today???
Mr Purple on November 20, 2008 at 12:57 PM
This is all pretty sad because for the most part Americans love cars. It’s exciting to see new cars come out and future cars displayed at the auto shows. At least it used to be.
Mr_Magoo on November 20, 2008 at 12:59 PM
“Bipartisan senators” reviving the bailout plan.
Mr_Magoo on November 20, 2008 at 1:00 PM
FNC says -
News conference with compromise sending some money to Big 3, announced by R. Bond and D Levin. Not clear if there are enough Senators to pass it or if house would go along with it.
Buy Danish on November 20, 2008 at 1:02 PM
When even a Massachusetts Democrat is criticizing the Big 3automakers for taking taxpayer money and making stupid decisions, they’re in deep doo-doo.
The question becomes, can they limp along until January 20 and then come crying crocodile tears to President Obama and a more friendly Congress, saying that their union workers helped elect Obama? But if Massachusetts Democrats don’t want to bail out GM, who will?
Steve Z on November 20, 2008 at 1:04 PM
The Big 3 are in a heap bit of trouble, but I remain skeptical as to what the Dem from Massachusetts means when he calls them stupid.
In their favor, CAFE standards (which he supports) and the high cost of gas was the final nail in their coffin, and thus it’s fair to ask why Congress can keep doing the same stupid things for 20 years.
Buy Danish on November 20, 2008 at 1:48 PM
The execs should have convinced, even implied, that Congress would be racist to deny the bailout, or at least committed to reduce the production of white cars. That would’ve sealed the deal!
Grafted on November 20, 2008 at 2:07 PM
Where in hell did that come from??
BillH on November 20, 2008 at 2:46 PM
That’s what I’ve been saying. A bailout should come in the form of a new vehicle for every taxpaying household or something. Isn’t that the whole point of this mess? They couldn’t sell cars, right? So the bail-out (not loan. we know it will never get repaid) should equal a certain number of vehicles to the taxpayer. Or new police cars. SOMETHING but not nothing.
Guardian on November 20, 2008 at 3:20 PM
My factory order Ford Taurus MT5 station wagon was left on the assembly line for nearly two months by a UAW strike. When finally I got the car, it was missing things I ordered, and spent 90 days of its first year in the shop.
A pox on both houses — Ford’s and UAW’s. They deserve extinction like the dinosaurs they are. I’m never buying another domestic car, designed by companies who leave off safety features if they cost a penny extra, and which are built by overpaid and pampered jerks. Quality is Job Eight or Nine.
Oh, and don’t get me going about GM. I owned a Vega. ‘Nuf said.
unclesmrgol on November 21, 2008 at 3:20 AM