Great news: Dow crumbles again, closes below 8,000
posted at 4:42 pm on November 19, 2008 by Allahpundit
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How bad is it? Ford stock lost 25 percent of its value — which these days means 42 cents.
I figured you guys would want a thread to blame Obama, so have at it. And take the poll. Not that there’s much value in predicting the inherently unpredictable, but I’m curious to see where my famous pessimism stacks up versus the readership’s at this point. As the Telegraph almost said, we’re all eeyores now.
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Money seems to be quite disrespectful of The One.
anniekc on November 19, 2008 at 4:44 PM
Well, look on the bright side, at least we don’t have to defend McCain proposing the same endless bailouts that Obama will support.
rw on November 19, 2008 at 4:45 PM
President O-blame-a. I like that. It’s catchy, donchathink’?
CyberCipher on November 19, 2008 at 4:45 PM
Yes and little “hitler” Axelrod just got paid back.
It’s gonna be a LONG four years.
HornetSting on November 19, 2008 at 4:45 PM
Charlie Gibson said you cannot blame this on The One…so there.
aquaviva on November 19, 2008 at 4:46 PM
its barry’s problem now
ousoonerfan15 on November 19, 2008 at 4:46 PM
Well, the Dow is down over 1500 points since the election, so I think it is safe to say – this is another example of the failed policies of the Obama administration.
Vashta.Nerada on November 19, 2008 at 4:46 PM
I blame everybody, Obama, Bush, Clinton, et al. This was all caused by political meddling and cowardice.
Jim-Rose on November 19, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Racist Markets!
ronsfi on November 19, 2008 at 4:48 PM
The market is smarter than 52 million American voters.
HornetSting on November 19, 2008 at 4:49 PM
It’s matching the water levels. Obama has more power than he realized!
Egads, man – stop making them fall!
kybowexar on November 19, 2008 at 4:49 PM
If the government would just STOP trying to fix the mess they created the market would bottom out and then recover. Government keeps sending mixed signals and the market reacts. Why, why, why do the idiots in DC think they best how to solve this problem? Their hubris and arrogance knows no bounds.
DerKrieger on November 19, 2008 at 4:49 PM
Heh.
Dude is leading at 33%.
MadisonConservative on November 19, 2008 at 4:49 PM
I can hardly wait till the end of January…that’s when I don’t have to make anymore house payments or car payments, or even medical insurance premiums…what a glorious day for all of us.
right2bright on November 19, 2008 at 4:50 PM
Thank God I just got a new job at Wal-Mart. Home office, not my local store.
DerKrieger on November 19, 2008 at 4:50 PM
I love it. Your saying, not that the Dow is down.
abinitioadinfinitum on November 19, 2008 at 4:50 PM
The less Obama says the lower it goes. Who is going to risk their capital? Obama keeps being a cipher and driving capital away from the market.
The Christmas numbers are going to come out around inauguration time. If they are as bad as we think and he still has not said anything about his economic plans then we are headed into DUDElike crashing.
Theworldisnotenough on November 19, 2008 at 4:50 PM
He SAID there would be change.
Labamigo on November 19, 2008 at 4:51 PM
its barry’s problem now
ousoonerfan15 on November 19, 2008 at 4:46 PM
A tempting sentiment. I wish it were so simple. My 401k Statements tell me it is my problem too…..
Dirthead on November 19, 2008 at 4:51 PM
Behold his mighty hand!
abinitioadinfinitum on November 19, 2008 at 4:52 PM
Per the poll – Dow in January 2009 is not as an important question as where it will be in 2012. For example, the Dow was at 1004 just before the election in 1976. It was at 987 in January 1977, when Carter was inaugurated. It was at 785 in July 1980, down over 10% in the four Carter years. In January 1981, when Reagan was inaugurated, it was back to 1000, about where it was before we made that particular political mistake. I forsee something similar over the next few years.
Vashta.Nerada on November 19, 2008 at 4:52 PM
The real problem comes when the dollar starts crashing. Remember “Carter bonds”? Foreigners buying bonds had them denominated in Yen because of the inflation and they feared they’d get paid back in a devalued currency.
With this huge debt and all the money we’re printing for stimulus and bailouts, this could be worse. I think we’ll see “Obama bonds”. Japanese economists are already talking about it
lodge on November 19, 2008 at 4:53 PM
Barry Lied about change.
Firebird on November 19, 2008 at 4:53 PM
Anyone heard of Fox Fire?
http://melungeon-historical-society.blogspot.com/2008/11/foxfire.html
I’m just sayin it wouldn’t be a bad idea to brush up on your outdoor skills:)
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/11/14/video-blogger-stocking-up-on-ammunition-canned-goods-for-recession/
Dr Evil on November 19, 2008 at 4:54 PM
Fix this, Messiah. Good luck.
JohnMcJunkin on November 19, 2008 at 4:54 PM
Get used to that. No matter what this guy does over the next four years, everything bad that happens will be blamed on the Bush administration and the mess they left for the one. Since the media has staked its collective reputation(however meagre that may be) on getting him elected, don’t expect them to call him on it.
landshark on November 19, 2008 at 4:54 PM
My collie says:
Wait until collie lays some of that canine liberation theology on you. Did you know that dogs are going to rule the earth for 1000 years?
CyberCipher on November 19, 2008 at 4:54 PM
People won’t play a game when they don’t know the rules.
The US Gov keeps changing the rules. They are picking winners and losers at whim. People have lost fortunes in stock when the Feds took over companies. Feds are also currently diluting Stock in a number of companies as they “bail them out” by forcibly buying equity in those companies.
Another intersting thing… why bother to borrow money from a bank at a reasonable interest rate, when the Fed is loaning money at almost no interest?
IMO if the government had just stayed out of the situation, we’d be closer to recovery than we are now.
Romeo13 on November 19, 2008 at 4:54 PM
You know how Democrats like to cite stats that say the Dow does better during Democrat administrations? Does that account for the lame duck months?
It seems to me that the period between the election and Jan 20th should count toward the incoming president rather than the sitting president, as investors would be buying, or in this case, selling in anticipation of future policies and business climate. Don’t know how much difference that would make, but it would be interesting to find out.
forest on November 19, 2008 at 4:55 PM
AP, where do you lay the blame?
Spirit of 1776 on November 19, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Who is Johh Galt?
Don’t Bring Me Down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTjy_LW8DGM
DUDE!
Dr Evil on November 19, 2008 at 4:56 PM
My domestic shorthair feline asks:
HornetSting on November 19, 2008 at 4:56 PM
I vote “Dude.”
Cicero43 on November 19, 2008 at 4:56 PM
I have several foxfire books. They are pretty interesting, but there’s no substitute for hands-on learning with real hillbillies.
forest on November 19, 2008 at 4:57 PM
“Dude”.
HornetSting on November 19, 2008 at 4:57 PM
It probably would be quite different. In my example above, the market went up some 20% from July 1980 to January 1981, with investors knowing Reagan was coming on the scene.
Vashta.Nerada on November 19, 2008 at 4:57 PM
I wonder what Buffett and T. Boone are thinking now? If the one tries to blame it on the failed Bush policies, he is a total coward. I want to see him be the solution to the problem with his new ideas. Otherwise, this is the Obama factor on our economy. Let his pass a bailout for the big three and trading will have to be suspended.
gringo69 on November 19, 2008 at 4:57 PM
Barry Lightworker better get his ass in gear and do something about my disappearing portfolio.
Cicero43 on November 19, 2008 at 4:58 PM
Greenspan started the housing bubble with his absurd 1% rates. The Fed has way more power over the economy than congress, the President or Treasury.
lodge on November 19, 2008 at 4:59 PM
I’ve been watching Andrew Zimmer, does that count?
abinitioadinfinitum on November 19, 2008 at 4:59 PM
I blame the camel lovers that put planes into our buildings.
HornetSting on November 19, 2008 at 4:59 PM
I looked it up.
.
Nov 4th DJIA: 9521.26
Nov 19th DJIA: 7997.28
.
A drop of 1523.98 or approximate 16%.
.
Audible hiss, indeed.
BrideOfRove on November 19, 2008 at 5:00 PM
Maybe he meant change as in “brother, can you spare a dime?”
jackmac on November 19, 2008 at 5:00 PM
We need Paul Volker back. I understand that Obama is considering him for the Fed head. That would be a very smart move.
Vince on November 19, 2008 at 5:00 PM
The markets have tanked more since Obama won than after any other presidential election in US history. Gun sales are up a quadrillion percent. Al Quada is already laughing in public at Obama.
It’s gonna be an interesting 4 years…if we survive that long.
Norwegian on November 19, 2008 at 5:00 PM
Hey, I saw your husband “mooning” the stock market. Is that the reason for the drop under 8K? Rove, you evil, evil little man.
HornetSting on November 19, 2008 at 5:01 PM
How long will it take before Dear Leader uses the economic crisis to nationalize all industries and declare martial law to “restore order”?
AmericanUnderground on November 19, 2008 at 5:01 PM
When Obama promised “change” I was expecting something else. “Change” is about what my investments are now worth.
coldwarrior on November 19, 2008 at 5:02 PM
Oh but look at the bright side – he’ll be throwing an extravaganza fit for king’s crowning on January 20th – the markets be damned! It’s my time! MY turn! Making the Denver Obamapalooza look like a 4th of July picnic in Toad Suck, Arkansas.
Just had to get that out of my system.
tru2tx on November 19, 2008 at 5:02 PM
Given its almost a certainty that Ford gets bailed out by Obama, is this not a great buy?
jp on November 19, 2008 at 5:03 PM
President elect Odummy, what is your plan?
“Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh……present.”
I got the guns, I’m working on the food pile, and the entire fam has a ready bag in the hall closet.
If we go, the world goes, and all bets are off.
Bishop on November 19, 2008 at 5:03 PM
The minute he takes his hand off the bible on Jan. 20th, it’s on his watch. I bet he is dreading that moment.
sherry on November 19, 2008 at 5:03 PM
Anyone know how IRA’s work, is there a percentage penalty for cashing them out or what?
Bishop on November 19, 2008 at 5:04 PM
scary thing is Keynsian economics tells the Dems they can still spend a butt load of money and its a good thing to do so. Won’t slow down their spending craze they have planned one iota.
electing obama was idiotic, on so many levels
jp on November 19, 2008 at 5:04 PM
Two points. 1) I’m curious about AP’s view simply because of the assumption that people will want to lay this at BO’s feet. 2) If the Fed had that much power (I think tax policy is more powerful) then the attempts by the Fed over the last 18 months would have averted the crisis.
Spirit of 1776 on November 19, 2008 at 5:05 PM
The markets have tanked more since Obama won than after any other presidential election in US history.
Norwegian on November 19, 2008 at 5:00 PM
YYZ on November 19, 2008 at 5:05 PM
I’m young, have everything invested in equities pretty much. They are down around 45-50% year to date. Hard to pull them out and into Money Market now.
jp on November 19, 2008 at 5:06 PM
Your worship:
What are you doing in an IRA? If you cash out before 59 1/2 years old you pay a 10% penalty to the IRS and the tax owed on all of the money.
Vince on November 19, 2008 at 5:07 PM
Is he gonna put his hand on the bible? Go to his website. He’s removed
from the oath of office. What else is he gonna do?
gringo69 on November 19, 2008 at 5:07 PM
My collie says:
How can you say that collie? I am sure that by the end of the next four years, with spreading the wealth, that we will all be equal.
My collie says:
CyberCipher on November 19, 2008 at 5:07 PM
Maybe the government should print some kind of President Obama Saves the Economy T-shirt with the proceeds going to whatever current bailout is required. I am sure they would sell like hotcakes.
Cindy Munford on November 19, 2008 at 5:09 PM
You can sell your stocks as long as the cash stays in the account, no problem. If you take money out of the account before you reach age 59.5, you pay taxes immediately on the distribution and Uncle Sam puts a fat penalty on top of that.
Cicero43 on November 19, 2008 at 5:09 PM
dont forget Barney Frank, Dodd, …well the Dem party and their desire going back to Carter to use housing policy(fannie/Freddie) for Social Engineering purposes.
Then the idiots who lied to mortgage brokers about their income, the HGTV shows that market the desire for housing via Coveting and on and on.
This is a collective thing, thats been in the works for awhile.
jp on November 19, 2008 at 5:09 PM
^^ What he said. ;o)
NoLeftTurn on November 19, 2008 at 5:10 PM
Once a bubble has been blown up, it cannot be deflated without a recession. The Fed has just been making it worse and increasing the pain for when we eventually have to bite this bullet.
lodge on November 19, 2008 at 5:10 PM
gringo69 on November 19, 2008 at 5:07 PM
Are you serious??? He removed “So Help Me God?” and will not say that at inaguration?
jp on November 19, 2008 at 5:10 PM
I can only hope that his puppetmasters will tell him to do so. It would not look good.
sherry on November 19, 2008 at 5:11 PM
I hope that Dear Leader realizes how tough things have gotten. I can barely afford ammunition anymore.
Ars Moriendi on November 19, 2008 at 5:11 PM
What Obama can do, the Democrats simply will not.
and that is slash Cap Gains and Corporate Taxes, and reduce some spending(but not with the Military).
its insane how high our Corprate Taxes are.
jp on November 19, 2008 at 5:11 PM
“This is not the Dow I know”
Ponz on November 19, 2008 at 5:12 PM
I seem to remember that when Slick Willie got elected the market went up a little and he and algore where on TV immediately taking credit for the rise … would that have been Nov of ‘92?
Fogpig on November 19, 2008 at 5:13 PM
I don’t argue with that. But for the housing bubble to happen, it was a collective sucky effort. Unless you are now saying that the Fed has more power to destroy an economy but less then Pres+Cong+Treasury to turn it around. Regardless, it’s a pointless argument, so you can have it.
Spirit of 1776 on November 19, 2008 at 5:13 PM
10% before age 59.5. It really sucks.
tru2tx on November 19, 2008 at 5:15 PM
Cindy Munford on November 19, 2008 at 5:15 PM
I’d like to call them Barry Bonds…they can be printed with an asterisk, meaning that any return they’re supposed to give you don’t really count.
James on November 19, 2008 at 5:15 PM
If anybody is interesting to hear more of what Peter Schiff has to say, here is a long interview in two parts. (If you didn’t watch the first video here, I’d do that first.)
Part one
Part two
FloatingRock on November 19, 2008 at 5:15 PM
If you take money out of the account before you reach age 59.5, you pay taxes immediately on the distribution and Uncle Sam puts a fat penalty on top of that.
Cicero43 on November 19, 2008 at 5:09 PM
So if I literally liquidate them, I get hit with a big tax rate on the money and a penalty? Any idea how much, is it a percentage of the total take or what?
Bishop on November 19, 2008 at 5:15 PM
Tanks a lot Obama, Tanks a lot.
CynicalOptimist on November 19, 2008 at 5:16 PM
This is how we’ll get change…. for our dollars.
I’d lay more of this at the feet of Paulson and Congress if anything, though. Stock market hates what? UNCERTAINTY
Ford asking for a handout = uncertainty
Paulson changing his idea for use of TARP = uncertainty
Obama not revealing his slate of economic ideas = uncertainty.
Fox had a good article on the source of some of the current troubles link. Basically, the folks who got all tenderhearted and increased the unemployment benefit period gave us a good chunk of this problem.
Likewise, the mortgage mess. Start hinting that the banks with ugly balance sheets will get a $$ present, and all of a sudden they ALL want to look bad. Meanwhile the market reads all of that news, and hits the sellsellsell button.
I’m not rooting for a bad economy. But I think it’s clear that we’ll have more government involvement in the economy, which has never lead to improvement.
hawksruleva on November 19, 2008 at 5:16 PM
Cindy Munford on November 19, 2008 at 5:15 PM
I know jack shat about IRA’s, so I’m just trying to figure out how they work. If the markets really tank, wouldn’t they be worth crap anyway?
Bishop on November 19, 2008 at 5:17 PM
This is the result of our career, experienced politicians. They have no idea what they are doing and they keep doing it. I thought inexpeience was a plus for Palin. I am sick and tired of these jackasses in Washington. They don’t have to be worried about their pensions.
bopbottle on November 19, 2008 at 5:17 PM
Great Scott,looks like half of America through the other
half under da perverbial financial bus!
So what kind of ‘CHANGE’ is this,and ‘HOPE’ I might ask,
I think half of American’s should demand that their voting
ballots be returned!
So while Hopey/Changey is preparing the mother of all
inaugration parties,all around the Roman Temple Pillars
of Perpetual Hope,and NeverEnding Change,Rome is burning
and that includes the American Tax payers money as well!
Hope and Change, my Northern Canadian #SS!!!!!!!!!!!!
canopfor on November 19, 2008 at 5:17 PM
Every day that ObaMcCarthy opens his mouth spewing his socialist agenda, investors pucker up and sell, sell, sell…..
csdeven on November 19, 2008 at 5:17 PM
Who would put money into the stock market for a long term investment when The One is going to increase capital gains taxes?
digitalintrigue on November 19, 2008 at 5:18 PM
Expect a lot more selling pressure as we approach the end of the year.
Investors with profits will weigh selling against losses and selling to pay 15% tax versus an expected 28% if they’re lucky enough to have profits.
More Hedge funds exploding and liquidating all over the place. Hide the children.
Mutual Funds selling to cover Mom and Pop taking their dwindling funds elsewhere, like the United Bank of My Own Mattress.
I live in Chicago and it was recently reported that the Teacher’s Pension fund is at a 56% funding level. Haven’t heard where the City/State Pension fund is at. But I’m sure it is not good. Perhaps they shouldn’t have speculated on Zimbabwe’s currency.
danking70 on November 19, 2008 at 5:18 PM
The markets have spoken: Obama is a dud.
Norwegian on November 19, 2008 at 5:18 PM
Where is the new America promised by “hopey mcchange” during the campaign? Instead we’re getting reruns of the Clinton administration … Emmanuel, Daschle, Clinton(?), and the likely attorney general (sorry, forgot his name). This is new? You’ve got to be kidding me. This is right out of the left wing playbook. “Change we need”, indeed!
Dukehoopsfan on November 19, 2008 at 5:19 PM
10% before age 59.5. It really sucks.
tru2tx on November 19, 2008 at 5:15 PM
That much huh? Wow….guess I’ll need to get good at stealing corn from local farms and getting the kids used to eating fish every meal.
Bishop on November 19, 2008 at 5:19 PM
Sorry, if I tried to give you answers it would be the blind leading the blind. My comment was based on my statements. Don’t get me wrong, I have “lost” money but in my case it is still well above what I put in so in a sense I am still ahead. I guess if I were you I would talk to the people handling it. I have less than five years until that magic 59 1/2 age and it is a relatively small amount of money so I am going to just sit and watch.
Cindy Munford on November 19, 2008 at 5:22 PM
They don’t have to be worried about their pensions.
bopbottle on November 19, 2008 at 5:17 PM
They might have to start worrying about bigger things pretty soon; those newly purchased guns might decide they want an impeachment covering the entire capitol.
I’m with you though, these lifer pigs we are stuck with don’t seem to have a frackin’ clue what they are doing.
Bishop on November 19, 2008 at 5:23 PM
We know it’s kind of pointless to point this out now, but today’s low stock market levels would appear to have been telegraphed in advance nearly a year ago, which unfortunately, we didn’t figure out until several weeks ago.
Welcome to your nervous nirvana. Next stop: the week of January 21!
ironman on November 19, 2008 at 5:23 PM
That depends. What does your collie say?
manwithblackhat on November 19, 2008 at 5:23 PM
It’s a classic John Galt situation. The money goes away before the socialists can get to it, and everyone loses.
blue13326 on November 19, 2008 at 5:23 PM
Bishop, I don’t know what your retirement timetable is, but if your main concern is protecting principal, why don’t you park it somewhere less risky for the time being. That’s what I’ve done. I’m drawing on an inherited IRA right now (rules require me to liquidate over a five-year period). It was invested pretty well when I took it over, and as stock funds go, it’s done better than most. But it has still lost about 40% of its value since 1/1/08. I moved it into a short-term bond fund last week. It’s not making money there, but it isn’t losing as much either. At this point, I consider this a short-term investment since I have to withdraw it all within 5 years and I’ve lowered my expectations considerably. I am not looking to make my fortune here; I just want to keep as much of my inheritance as I can. If only there were more favorable income tax rules with respect to inherited retirement accounts. We ought to be able to spread out the tax burden or something; then I could have taken it in a lump sum last year and not been in this predicament. Although at this point, I could have withdrawn the whole thing, paid the tax on it, and I’d still be ahead. If only my crystal ball weren’t in the shop . . .
NoLeftTurn on November 19, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Cindy Munford on November 19, 2008 at 5:22 PM
I hear ya, just trying to get an idea of taking a large, instant hit or absorbing a flurry of smaller punches over the next few months, both of which could find me at the same painful place.
Bishop on November 19, 2008 at 5:26 PM
Anyone with a 401k or with money still in the market now – take it out while you still can, and buy gold.
lodge on November 19, 2008 at 5:27 PM
Isn’t there supposed to be peace, harmony, unity and a-plenty, now that the One has been elected?
Aren’t happy days here, once again?
Or is the market reacting in sheer horror towards the truth about this empty-suit?
ToddonCapeCod on November 19, 2008 at 5:29 PM
NoLeftTurn on November 19, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Thanks for the advice, I have a financial planner (conservative in nature and a longtime advocate for most of my family) who I hope has already started shifting things that direction. I normally don’t take a large hand in such things because of inexperience, I just need to know what to look for on my statements.
I’m not anywhere near retiring so I suppose I have time to make lost money back, but I will admit to a little panic right now.
Crazy as it sounds, some of my neighbors who don’t have carry permits have either signed up for classes or have asked me to get guns for them. There are people out there who are getting creeped out over all this stuff.
Bishop on November 19, 2008 at 5:30 PM
Blame The One? You dream! It is now ingraned in every rube that the Republicans made this mess and wrecked the economy. It will be hard to remove.
What kills me is that Bawney Frawnk, Chris Dodd and even The One have almost completely escaped culpability for this suffering. They used to have a term, Yellow Journalism, for the Hearst propaganda. We need a new one for the 2008 media liars. I don’t know what is going to keep the Repubs afloat. Philip Berg’s suit…
IlikedAUH2O on November 19, 2008 at 5:32 PM
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