Comments on: The bailout oxymoron

By: theregoestheneighborhood

theregoestheneighborhood — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 06:25:34 +0000

Barney Frank is now known to have been sleeping with an officer of Fannie Mae while responsible for oversight of the company. Can anybody explain to me why he’s still in office? Can anyone explain to me why no criminal charges have been filed against this blot on the nation?

philwynk on November 17, 2008 at 11:01 AM

He’s a Democrat. Ergo…

By: darwin-t

darwin-t — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 03:00:17 +0000

The dimmocrats have to have an early start. They only have four years to execute their five year plan.

By: armorman

armorman — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:33:58 +0000

Barney Frank + Bailout = economic masturbation

By: JIMV

JIMV — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:25:49 +0000

“Barney Frank, the same genius who assured us that Fannie Mae was solvent and that further regulation wouldn’t be needed.”

How can this fool, who is the primary catalyst for the largest loss of wealth in the history of mankind, be allowed to stay in offic

notagool on November 17, 2008 at 1:51 PM

Can we say ‘Democrat’? Of course we can…

By: Tacitus_SGL

Tacitus_SGL — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:45:04 +0000

Your second link is broken btw ed.

By: The bailout oxymoron - Jason’s Blog

The bailout oxymoron - Jason’s Blog — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:43:22 +0000

[...] Link: The bailout oxymoron Posted in Shared Links at November 17th, 2008. Trackback URI: [...]

By: anti-boomer

anti-boomer — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:50:34 +0000

I want a world with a “Barney Frank Free Zone”. Sweetness0726 on November 17, 2008 at 2:06 PM

why do you hate gays so much? How would you like it if we made the US a Sweetness free zone?
BIGOT!

By: anti-boomer

anti-boomer — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:47:27 +0000

LET THEM FAIL!!!Falconsword on November 17, 2008 at 1:55 PM

Not very compassionate. However, any industry that fails and takes the unions down with them is fine by me. If those autoworkers can’t retire on whatever they have left of 144K/year, then I don’t know when it is ok to retire. If they move to a nice cheap section of the country, they could retire after a few years of work.
Oh, I forgot, Detroit real estate is already worth next to nothing. So, they don’t have to move.

By: Sweetness0726

Sweetness0726 — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:06:56 +0000

I want a world with a “Barney Frank Free Zone”. The people who keep voting this sack of crap back in office have to share DNA with the ones who voted for Jack Murtha after he called them racists and rednecks. If it wasn’t an insult to the mentally handicapped, I would say Ann Coulter was right when she called them retards.

By: Falconsword

Falconsword — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:55:03 +0000

LET THEM FAIL!!!
Some Hank Rearden will buy up the pieces, and in a year or two be turning out autos that will put the junk from Japan to shame.

This is long overdue, just like the banking failures and the wallstreet failures. And once again, congress is stepping in to screw with the laws of nature. If they get their way, they’ll force the ‘big three’ to turn out ‘green’ cars that will be little better than junk. I bet Japan is cheering them on. If the democrats succeed with this bailout, I predict Japan owns 90% of the auto market in five years.

By: notagool

notagool — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:51:42 +0000

“Barney Frank, the same genius who assured us that Fannie Mae was solvent and that further regulation wouldn’t be needed.”

How can this fool, who is the primary catalyst for the largest loss of wealth in the history of mankind, be allowed to stay in offic

By: scalleywag

scalleywag — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:40:40 +0000

I think banks, automakers, and airlines, just to mention a few, were doing just fine until they encountered one common denominator. Congressional interference. Deregulation, forced loans, forced MPG requirements. And now they’re throwing our money in bailout black hole for all who need it. When will it stop? Back when I was a kid when people bought a home and lived in it for a few years they didn’t expect to get more than they paid for it, same as a car. There was wear and tear and depreciation, so you sold it for less than you bought it for. Stuff happens, markets fluctuate. If we have to bail out every person who took a hit on a house (me included0 the line will wrap around the universe.

By: What’s Gone Wrong With the Economy - Look in the Mirror « Grand Rants

What’s Gone Wrong With the Economy - Look in the Mirror « Grand Rants — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:05:39 +0000

[...] h/t HotAir [...]

By: Count to 10

Count to 10 — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:36:49 +0000

Not harsh at all, it’s just easier said then done you know?

thequeball on November 17, 2008 at 12:17 PM

Oh, I know. I just relocated from one cost to the other for a job, and that was a pain even though it was just me and my car full of junk. I don’t know how double income house holds with kids do it.

By: unclesmrgol

unclesmrgol — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:32:31 +0000

So, let's see. We add the assets of the applicant to the amount of debt it has assumed, and that is the value of the applicant for further loan purposes. I can see where this is going, but you have to bootstrap yourself into a condition where you have no assets and no job, but a huge amount of debt. Wait a minute, isn't that one of the rights accorded in the Constitution of the State of Welfare which I think lies along the Eastern and Western Seaboards, with something called the State of Flyover somewhere in between? Where can I sign up for one of these programs? I want solid gold toilet paper dispensers!

By: FrenchguyinTaiwan

FrenchguyinTaiwan — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:29:35 +0000

I agree with Count to 10. That WSJ article is very good.
I had no idea these companies were worth so little. This is an excellent point concerning the ‘loan’. Subprime lending all over again. A rule of prudent lending would be that you loan less than the collateral you could get. This would mean that the loan would have to be 20-30% less than the 7 billion. With subprime lending, one of the problems was that the loans were 100% of asset value. With 25 billion, the loans would be 300% of asset value. This supposes that the value of the companies increase dramatically in the mid term. I can’t see this happening without drastic actions to cut costs.
The only way this would make sense is if the loan came after such drastic actions were taken and there were a path to recovery (the presence of private money would be a better indicator of potential success). But if the loan is made before, then it will take the urgency away for some time and make future change even more difficult.

By: UNREPENTANT CONSERVATIVE CAPITOLIST

UNREPENTANT CONSERVATIVE CAPITOLIST — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:24:18 +0000

Romeo13,
I need to show you the bullshit response I got to such a proposal I sent to Dick Lugar, IN Senator. The EPA actually said CNG pollutes more dangerous chemicals. I was astounded. Instead of retooling the big 3, let them die a quick death, and then make the money available to brand new companies who will be required to make the CNG cars as part of the loan agreement, or other companies who could do the CNG conversions cheaply. The EPA has some kind of mandates that make the cost of a CNG conversion 3500-7500. We need a cheaper alternative to this kind of red tape bullshit. Nice Idea though, but lets not send the UAW 3500.00 for every car built at GM and maybe a new company could compete.

By: thequeball

thequeball — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:17:10 +0000

Count to 10 on November 17, 2008 at 12:11 PM

Not harsh at all, it’s just easier said then done you know?

By: Dusty

Dusty — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:14:11 +0000

Obviously the value of money has become meaningless to people in Congress and it is mostly because our representatives have convinced us to divorce the idea of money from the idea of wealth and, as such, from property allowing them to treat money as something like a commons for which all have access.

The supply of money is not as infinite as they think and the tragedy will come quickly. If I didn’t think they were idiots, I’d believe they were ushering in anarchy purposely.

By: UNREPENTANT CONSERVATIVE CAPITOLIST

UNREPENTANT CONSERVATIVE CAPITOLIST — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:13:49 +0000

thequeball on November 17, 2008 at 11:30 AM

The Honda factory near Indianapolis is looking for good people at respectable wages.I am willing to bet their product will be in higher demand soon, and current demand isn’t too bad either.

By: Count to 10

Count to 10 — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:11:45 +0000

I’m still worried about the future of my job and area though.

thequeball on November 17, 2008 at 12:05 PM

I don’t mean to be harsh, but consider moving.
In some sense failed entities (companies, states, programs) have to be allowed to fail. Immortality is a major source of suffering.

By: Count to 10

Count to 10 — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:07:41 +0000

Romeo13 on November 17, 2008 at 12:02 PM

At this point, Toyota and Honda are more domestic than the big three.

By: thequeball

thequeball — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:05:53 +0000

Count to 10 on November 17, 2008 at 11:55 AM

That article you linked makes a very good case for bankruptcy, but there seems to be too much money tied up in unions and politicians perhaps for that to be allowed to happen right now. If they don’t receive a bailout of some kind, I would be surprised–not necessarily happy if they do.

I don’t have exact figures, and have no sources, but those compensation obligations are one of the reasons why smaller more fuel efficient vehicles lost/lose so much money for the big three. The push for large trucks and suvs was a direct result of that, since they had a high margin of profit for them.

I’m still worried about the future of my job and area though.

By: Right_of_Attila

Right_of_Attila — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:05:33 +0000

Somebody owns the debt of the big three. If they go bankrupt, the bonds own the company assets — which will pay pennies on the dollar for Ford.

Bailing out the US auto makers delays recognizing that their bonds are worthless.

By: MayBee

MayBee — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:04:14 +0000

They are monopolies, or trusts, of the labor market. Worse, there are a number of laws on the books enforcing them.

True, and manufacturers are hesitant to build in states that make it difficult to run a non-union manufacturing shop. Yet Obama wants card check.
The big problem for Detroit is, as long as the unions have such favorable laws in MI, new manufacturers aren’t going to start businesses there and the displaced autoworkers will have nowhere to go. Honda and Toyota won’t want them to come to their shops because they won’t want them to start organizing. It’s a giant mess.

Why doesn’t someone ask Warren Buffet to buy GM or Ford? If it is such a great investment that is. Plus, then he could decide who has oversight (imagine Congress overseeing a business! yikes).