Obama will back Saudi peace plan

posted at 10:24 am on November 16, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

Barack Obama has decided to base his diplomatic approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict on the Saudi peace plan, the Times of London reports today.  A “senior Obama adviser” tells the Times that Obama will back the plan that divides Jerusalem into two capitals and pulls Israel back to pre-1967 borders:

Barack Obama is to pursue an ambitious peace plan in the Middle East involving the recognition of Israel by the Arab world in exchange for its withdrawal to pre-1967 borders, according to sources close to America’s president-elect.

Obama intends to throw his support behind a 2002 Saudi peace initiative endorsed by the Arab League and backed by Tzipi Livni, the Israeli foreign minister and leader of the ruling Kadima party.

The proposal gives Israel an effective veto on the return of Arab refugees expelled in 1948 while requiring it to restore the Golan Heights to Syria and allow the Palestinians to establish a state capital in east Jerusalem.

On a visit to the Middle East last July, the president-elect said privately it would be “crazy” for Israel to refuse a deal that could “give them peace with the Muslim world”, according to a senior Obama adviser.

Apparently, Obama has changed his position from his speech at AIPAC.  In early June, he told the Israeli-supporting political action group that Jerusalem “must remain undivided,” drawing thunderous applause and roars of criticism later from Palestinian groups.  Within hours, Obama retreated to the Bush administration position — that Jerusalem should be left to the two sides to negotiate in the final settlement.

Welcome to Obama 3.0 on Jerusalem.  Now he has switched sides to the exact opposite of what he argued at AIPAC.  One has to wonder what all of those Jewish voters who supported Obama will think of this new position on Israel’s borders and security, but somehow I doubt it would get thunderous applause at AIPAC.

In Israel, the reception could be more mixed.  Tzipi Livni, the foreign minister and leading candidate for Prime Minister from Ariel Sharon’s Kadima party, backs the Saudi peace plan in concept, including the division of Jerusalem.  The Israeli Left supports it as well, with Shimon Peres and Ehud Olmert both endorsing the plan.  Likud candidate Benjamin Netanyahu opposes it entirely.

Obama reportedly told Mahmoud Abbas that “Israel would be crazy” not to accept the plan.  He concluded that the Saudi plan would give Israel peace with the entire Muslim world.  Really?  It might make it palatable for some states like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to start diplomatic relations with Israel, and perhaps even Syria if they get back the Golan Heights.  But who believes that Iran, Yemen, Libya, Sudan, and the proxy armies of Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad will suddenly discover brotherly love with such a settlement?  They want Israel wiped off the map, literally in Iran’s case, and the Israelis driven into the Mediterranean.

Israel can decide on its own to take a risk and adopt the smaller borders in exchange for the promise of peace.  Obama should have stuck with his AIPAC speech, or the initial retreat from it.

Update: In the comments, Meryl Yourish notes that one of the article’s authors has credibility problems.


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Shocka. Didn’t see a backflip like that coming, right?

Meanwhile, how many rockets has Hamas launched today?

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on November 16, 2008 at 10:29 AM

You all at HA rock! You sure do put some great articles on here. Well, Israel better wise up. Take actions themselves. The Saudi’s are lying. Israel must not trust them. None of them! They cannot handle the fact that they had their clocks cleaned by Israel. And Israel won the land fair and square. I hope they don’t listen even to us. They need to protect themselves and not cow down to terrorists.

sheebe on November 16, 2008 at 10:30 AM

One has to wonder what all of those Jewish voters who supported Obama will think of this new position on Israel’s borders and security, but somehow I doubt it would get thunderous applause at AIPAC.

Take my word for it, based on my many Jewish pro-Obama friends. There will be no concern. After all, Rahm Emanuel’s father is Israeli.

Attila (Pillage Idiot) on November 16, 2008 at 10:32 AM

Why do I think Farakan is laughing so hard he needs to change his underwear.

CPT. Charles on November 16, 2008 at 10:33 AM

Don’t do it Anakin…I have the high ground.

tomas on November 16, 2008 at 10:33 AM

Obama reportedly told Mahmoud Abbas that “Israel would be crazy” not to accept the plan. He concluded that the Saudi plan would give Israel peace with the entire Muslim world. Really?

That’s part of Teh One’s motus operandi. He’s trying to play both sides to make himself look like the good guy. It’s a perverted form of Clinton’s triangulation approach. Big difference? Slick Willy is better speaker……and supports Israel.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on November 16, 2008 at 10:34 AM

Likud candidate Benjamin Netanyahu opposes it entirely.

I like Netanyahu. He’s always struck me as the type who wouldn’t take any crap from Israel’s enemies.

Every administration has tried to bring peace to the Middle East, and every administration has failed. The Obama administration won’t be able to do any better.

backwoods conservative on November 16, 2008 at 10:36 AM

Well, if I were a betting man, I’d bet that once Israel hears the formal proposal based on this crap sandwich (version 2.0 international politics),They will tell Obammy to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine. Anything the Saudi’s have to say is in the best interests of the Wahabbists, hence the Islamofascists, period.

MNDavenotPC on November 16, 2008 at 10:36 AM

Wow, that temperament and intelligence really are making up for this dolt’s complete lack of foreign policy acumen. I’m so glad we don’t have that old POW guy taking over.
/sarc

Y-not on November 16, 2008 at 10:36 AM

I will not be able to take the next four years. Please post some old clips of Reagan or maybe just pictures of nice things like guns, flags, and boobies.

D0WNT0WN on November 16, 2008 at 10:36 AM

Why do you expect Obama to be more concerned about Israel’s security and chances for peace than its own leaders?

Phoenician on November 16, 2008 at 10:36 AM

He needs to stop “test driving” these plans. Considering that he presumably disclosed the conversation he had with Bush in the Oval Office, we know he hasn’t quite learned how to be presidential.

By floating these plans, it is quite possible that he is rattling cages out there and that may have some grave consequences.

Mr. Obama, we understand that you are learning on the job, but please remember to close the door during your study sessions.

sherry on November 16, 2008 at 10:37 AM

I like Netanyahu. He’s always struck me as the type who wouldn’t take any crap from Israel’s enemies.

Every administration has tried to bring peace to the Middle East, and every administration has failed. The Obama administration won’t be able to do any better.

backwoods conservative on November 16, 2008 at 10:36 AM

When Netanyahu was Prime Minister, he had the IDF crack on all of the militant groups. Violence was at a low during his tenure.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on November 16, 2008 at 10:38 AM

Israel can decide on its own to take a risk and adopt the smaller borders in exchange for the promise of peace.

It’s a moot point. barry’s election is a green light for the arabs. They will attack israel soon after the inauguration. barry will make a speach, the one biden warned about, saying that the US will stay nuetral with one exception. If anyone uses a nuclear weapon the US will be forced to side with the recipient. That will put the handcuffs on Israel and allow the arabs to go all out. Get ready for the second Holocaust.

peacenprosperity on November 16, 2008 at 10:39 AM

Obama’s decision ignores the reality of jihad.

Jihad–it’s just another distraction.

PattyJ on November 16, 2008 at 10:39 AM

D0WNT0WN on November 16, 2008 at 10:36 AM

Those things now…..but don’t think long term. Think 2 years of inverted pike with a 2 and half full somersaulting back. If Steele can rally the GOP, we can take back one of the Houses of Congress. It also depends on how bad Obama performs, too.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on November 16, 2008 at 10:40 AM

Obama’s IOU to S.A. for funding his Harvard education I would venture a guess..
And being the messiah and all, this too shall come to pass. He will sit upon the Temple Mount and declare himself, god!

Honestly, this is suicide for Israel. But heh, electing Obama doesn’t leave us any room to lecture the Israelis on suicide.

katy on November 16, 2008 at 10:41 AM

The proposal gives Israel an effective veto on the return of Arab refugees expelled in 1948 while requiring it to restore the Golan Heights to Syria and allow the Palestinians to establish a state capital in east Jerusalem.

The Golan Heights are the key. Once Israel gives up that, they are in prime position to be invaded.

Vashta.Nerada on November 16, 2008 at 10:44 AM

The Israelis should agree to it under one condition; that the U.S. give Oklahoma back to the Native Americans ‘without precondition’.

michaelo on November 16, 2008 at 10:46 AM

Vashta.Nerada on November 16, 2008 at 10:44 AM

Agreed. The loss of the Golan will be the death of Israel.

katy on November 16, 2008 at 10:47 AM

Hope the 77% of the Jews who voted for Obama are happy with their choice. It’s not as though everyone didn’t see this coming. Obama sides with those who vocally call for the destruction of Isarel. Great choice.

katieanne on November 16, 2008 at 10:49 AM

Barry REALLY WASN’T paying attention in church(If Rev. Wright spoke of these matters). There are severe consequences to messing with Israel.

Joel 3:2 (Whole Chapter)
[Zeph 3:8; Zech 14:2-4 ] I will gather all the nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. And [Isa 66:16; Jer 25:31] I will enter into judgment with them there, on behalf of my people and my heritage Israel, because they have scattered them among the nations and have divided up my land

Who is pushing him to do this?

kingsjester on November 16, 2008 at 10:49 AM

so the Palestinians give up on the phony right of return in exchange for actual land of economic and strategic value. And when the rockets start flying from the new hamas controlled land, then what?

rob verdi on November 16, 2008 at 10:50 AM

Obama flopped over and is backing an Arab plan largely opposed by Israel…didn’t see that one coming.

/sarc

Wyznowski on November 16, 2008 at 10:52 AM

http://www.suntimes.com/news/mitchell/1281403,CST-NWS-mitch16.article

slightly off topic, but this is a column in today’s Chicago Sun Times from Mary Mitchell. She considers herself the voice of Black America. She is telling Obama hurry it up and make good on your campaign promises. She wants to see action. Quickly.

sherry on November 16, 2008 at 10:53 AM

Ed,

Is this Obama’s FINAL SOLUTION for the Jewish PROBLEM?

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 10:53 AM

I guess this means we have to go back under British rule.

Russia has to give Georgia back the land they consfciated??

“O” Dumbo is a jerk and a Commie.

Rick007 on November 16, 2008 at 10:54 AM

In a conventional war against Israel, our own military would be hard pressed to come out ahead.

If the Arabs want to try, they will end up like they always do, losers! I do not see Israel giving up any of their territory for a peace plan. Obama can say whatever he wants, but it will not be any more than “just words.”

ny59giants on November 16, 2008 at 10:54 AM

Next up reperations and the USA withdrawing back to its pre 1800′s borders in the Southwest. That solves the immigrations problem

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 10:55 AM

I will not be able to take the next four years. Please post some old clips of Reagan or maybe just pictures of nice things like guns, flags, and boobies.

D0WNT0WN on November 16, 2008 at 10:36 AM

LOL — not sure about the guns and flags, but between The One, and the Sage of Wilmington, I’m confident that we will be seeing more than enough boobs in the next four years,.

FalseProfit on November 16, 2008 at 10:55 AM

Just appalling.

Yet again, we have an American “peacemaker” suggesting that Israel make CONCRETE consessions in exchange for more Arab TALK.

It is a grotesquerie the way that Westerners would compel Israel to undertake “diplomacy” with persons with whom any decent man would not break bread.

It is ABSURD that Westerners insist that Arabs want peace with Israel, when no reliable Arabic source EVER suggests that.

So how many Israelis must the Arabs kill before it is ok for us to call them our enemy? How many agreements must the Arabs break before it is ok for Israel to no longer perpetuate the farce that is the “peace process”?

May Obama be made at least a LITTLE bit wise; may he learn to see Israelis as people as valuable as any other; may he not compel us to lose more of our loved ones to this vicious, unrelenting enemy in the name of transient political expediency.

Baruch HaShem – Am Yisrael Chai!
MD

MogenDavid on November 16, 2008 at 10:58 AM

My Jewish friends don’t care much about his position on Israel. They’re Democrats before they’re Jewish.

sheesh on November 16, 2008 at 10:58 AM

In a conventional war against Israel, our own military would be hard pressed to come out ahead.

If the Arabs want to try, they will end up like they always do, losers! I do not see Israel giving up any of their territory for a peace plan. Obama can say whatever he wants, but it will not be any more than “just words.”

ny59giants on November 16, 2008 at 10:54 AM

The problem is the not might of the Israeli military, it is the will of the party in command. You saw what happened in Lebanon a few years ago. It was the most pathetic military theater the world has seen in years.

katy on November 16, 2008 at 11:00 AM

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 10:53 AM

Idiot.

Tom_Shipley on November 16, 2008 at 11:00 AM

hey sheesh – there ARE, what, 28% of us who are sane :D

some of my best friends. . . LOL

MD

MogenDavid on November 16, 2008 at 11:01 AM

What I find interesting is that so much new news regarding Obama is reported by the British press, not the U.S.

Even the story about the NASA (Gore disciple) scientist fudging the temperatures came from a British newspaper.

Where are the American media??? (Or is Obama purposely pushing (leaking) stories to the British media, avoiding the US press?)

albill on November 16, 2008 at 11:01 AM

I will not be able to take the next four years. Please post some old clips of Reagan or maybe just pictures of nice things like guns, flags, and boobies.

D0WNT0WN on November 16, 2008 at 10:36 AM

Here’s some happy news for you courtesy of Ace.

Terrorists Die Of Lead Poisioning And The Credit Crisis, But Mostly Lead Poisioning
KABUL, Afghanistan – A raid by coalition troops in eastern Afghanistan killed five al-Qaida associated militants and eight others were detained, including a militant leader, the U.S. military said in a statement Sunday.

Thank goodness our troops have a better grasp of things than the Lightworker does.

Y-not on November 16, 2008 at 11:01 AM

On a visit to the Middle East last July, the president-elect said privately it would be “crazy” for Israel to refuse a deal that could “give them peace with the Muslim world”, according to a senior Obama adviser.

Just wait till he gets an offer for the US to have “peace with the Muslim world”.

What have you done, America?!

Shy Guy on November 16, 2008 at 11:02 AM

What I find interesting is that so much new news regarding Obama is reported by the British press, not the U.S.

Even the story about the NASA (Gore disciple) scientist fudging the temperatures came from a British newspaper.

Where are the American media??? (Or is Obama purposely pushing (leaking) stories to the British media, avoiding the US press?)

albill on November 16, 2008 at 11:01 AM

That may be because the British press are gagged by the Jihadis in Britian. No hate speech and all that rot.

katy on November 16, 2008 at 11:04 AM

What a horrendous deal for Israel. They would be absolute fools to take that deal, thinking it would produce peace. Giving the Arabs land has never ever worked before, so why would it work now? Israel gave them all of Gaza, and things are worse now than they were before. All Obama wants is any peace deal, no matter how bad it is for Israel. He’s just like Bill Clinton. Clinton just wanted to be able to say he produced a peace deal even if the deal was a complete disaster for the Israelis like the Camp David peace accords were.

eyedoc on November 16, 2008 at 11:05 AM

One other point, it’s going to be interesting to see how Obama molds Ed’s political views over the next four years.

Tom_Shipley on November 16, 2008 at 11:06 AM

Considering the Islamic religion allows its members to lie to infidels, I will go out on a limb and predict that if Israel accepts this plan it will be a disaster.

Israel will find itself under constant attack on a tiny piece of real estate located just below the Golan Heights: Excellent Target.

Israel was almost vacant before 1946. Jerusalem was a village of 30,000 people almost half of whom were Jewish. When the Jewish people began moving to Israel a building boom was created. Migrant construction workers moved in from Egypt, Syria and Jordan. These are the ancestors of the Palestinian peoples (a name adopted in the 1960s). When Israel expelled these murderous terrorists their home countries refused to accept them.

The Islamic world created the Palestinian problem.

I say ship all the Palestinians back to the lands their fathers came from, by parachute if necessary.

The Rock on November 16, 2008 at 11:07 AM

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 10:53 AM

Idiot.

Tom_Shipley on November 16, 2008 at 11:00 AM

Yeah the truth hurts. Obama’s plan will be ensure the next
holocaust of the Jewish people. The 1967 borders can not be defended.

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 11:07 AM

Where are the American media??? (Or is Obama purposely pushing (leaking) stories to the British media, avoiding the US press?)

albill on November 16, 2008 at 11:01 AM

The US press is now dead! We only have Fox News…..Or do we?

sheebe on November 16, 2008 at 11:08 AM

Where are the American media??? (Or is Obama purposely pushing (leaking) stories to the British media, avoiding the US press?)

albill on November 16, 2008 at 11:01 AM

they are still smoking their after sex cig.

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 11:09 AM

sheebe on November 16, 2008 at 11:08 AM

You’re right, Kiddo. Fox News HAS been slipping toward the dark side since the election.

kingsjester on November 16, 2008 at 11:09 AM

albill on November 16, 2008 at 11:01 AM

My thoughts exactly. The newspapers critical of Obama on real issues have by and large been foriegn newspapaers. I wonder if Isreal is attacked, will there be a media blackout? Information control to make sure Obambi looks good to the adoring minions?

The 1948 borders don’t exist anymore because Isreal was attacked in 1967 and they defended themselves, Isreal kept the ground they won. Why anyone would think Isreal would be inclined to shrink their borders and bring their enemies in even closer than they currently are is mind boggling.

Hog Wild on November 16, 2008 at 11:10 AM

I went to see Nonie Darwish talk yesterday. Nonie Darwish is one of the people interviewed in the film Obsession. If she is right about how Islam operates, it is simply not true that Israel can buy peace with the muslims. I suspect Darwish is right and Obama is wrong about Islam and peace in the Middle East, because Obama has the liberal Christian/reformed Jew inability to take religion seriously. Atheists understand religion much better than the liberal religionists. Darwish, like devout believers and atheists, believes that people act on the basis of their religion. Obama and his spiritual kin believe that people celebrate holidays on the basis of their religion. To them, Christianity is eating a big meal for Christmas dinner. (I do take Obama at his word that he didn’t Rev Wright say crazy things. He probably just zoned out whenever Wright spoke.)

There was a slightly disturbing thing about Darwish’s talk and I’d like some feedback about it. Darwish’s talk was sponsored by Zionist Organization of America and only Jews came to the talk. The woman in charge of the talk claimed she sent information to many other groups about Darwish coming. I’d like to think virtually everyone who posts at Hotair would come to such an event and wouldn’t let the fact it was sponsored by Zionist Organization of America bother them, but do people here think that the sponsor chased people off?

thuja on November 16, 2008 at 11:10 AM

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 11:07 AM

Maybe I wasn’t clear enough in my first post.

You. Are. An. Idiot.

Tom_Shipley on November 16, 2008 at 11:11 AM

eh, thats this week. See what he says next week.
He changes like the tide, literally.

johnnyU on November 16, 2008 at 11:12 AM

I wonder if Isreal is attacked, will there be a media blackout?

cnn will report rumors of Israeli atrocities against palestinians while the Second Holocaust is going on.

peacenprosperity on November 16, 2008 at 11:13 AM

Tom_Shipley on November 16, 2008 at 11:11 AM

Wow a great comeback. If this is the level of debate we can expect from Obama supporters the next 4 years are going to be a dumbing down period for America.

Explain oh great Obama support how giving the Muslims the hig ground without requiring them to disarm will not destroy Isreal and the Jews that live there.

Take your time I know individual thought is hard for you. I can wait until you get your talking points from the ONE.

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 11:15 AM

For President Obama to pretend that there could be a lasting negotiated peace between Israel and the Muslim world is to be expected, but for him to actually believe this and hammer Israel about it is just stupid folly. Most of the Muslim world by far and the “Palistinians” in particular cannot and will not accept the permanent existence of Israel as a matter of their Islamic faith. Scholars like Bernard Lewis and others will tell you that once a territory has been part of dar al-Islam it MUST revert to Islam – Israel has no right to exist in the Islamic world view and must go (esp. in atonement & retribution for Israel’s humiliating defeat of the Muslims in the ’67 war).
.
The problem isn’t with some extremist in Hamas or Al-Qaeda, it’s with
Islam itself!

Chessplayer on November 16, 2008 at 11:16 AM

One has to wonder what all of those Jewish voters who supported Obama will think

Liberal secular Jewish voters don’t think. They are too busy committing suicide.

Basilsbest on November 16, 2008 at 11:17 AM

Well… an awful lot of Canadian Jews think Israel shouldn’t exist as a Jewish state. They seem to suffer from some of the same naivete that infects both Obama and Livni — they actually think Hezbollah and Hamas will fade away, that Syria will drop its ties to Iran, its support of Hezbollah and aspirations for “Greater Syria”, and that Iran will accept a Jewish state of Israel. Presumably under pressure from a unified position by the Arab nations, at least several of which can barely contain their growing extremist Muslim sectors, to which they’ve been feeding a steady diet of Jew-hatred for the last six decades or more.

Something tells me Samantha Powers still has the O’s ear.

ProfessorMiao on November 16, 2008 at 11:18 AM

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 11:15 AM

No, but it’s level of debate a person who insinuates Obama is trying to rid the world of the Jewish race deserves and will get from me. Idiots like yourself do not deserve to have much thought wasted on them.

Tom_Shipley on November 16, 2008 at 11:19 AM

There will be no peace in the midddle east until either Israel or Palestine ceases to exist. The Palestinians don’t want peace. Never have. Never will.

Basilsbest on November 16, 2008 at 11:19 AM

The problem isn’t with some extremist in Hamas or Al-Qaeda, it’s with Islam itself!

Chessplayer on November 16, 2008 at 11:16 AM

islamaphobe!

peacenprosperity on November 16, 2008 at 11:19 AM

The phrase “Saudi peace plan” strikes me as a contradiction in terms.

muggedbyreality on November 16, 2008 at 11:20 AM

ProfessorMiao on November 16, 2008 at 11:18 AM

Careful Professor using thoughts like that might get you called an idiot by Tom_Ahole

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 11:20 AM

Gee, who da thunk this would wuz comin’. Looks like Obambi took the call from Soros, Farukan, Wright, et al. And now with Billary as Sec. State the arm twisting will be brutal. And, now that Syria, Hezbulah and Hamas are flush with money and arms it’s only logical that Obama will help them with their strategy. After all the horse that Mohammad rode to Jerusalem in his night vision was named Barak.

sheriff246 on November 16, 2008 at 11:20 AM

Idiots like yourself do not deserve to have much thought wasted on them.Tom_Shipley on November 16, 2008 at 11:19 AM

Then scram.

Basilsbest on November 16, 2008 at 11:21 AM

I’m sure Version 4.0 is just around the corner.

GarandFan on November 16, 2008 at 11:21 AM

Tom_Shipley on November 16, 2008 at 11:19 AM

Shipley, with all the pro-palestinian and radical arab extremest ties and associates Obama has been involved with over the years… I think it’s you that must provide evidence that he will do everything possible to preserve the Jewish state and its people!

katy on November 16, 2008 at 11:23 AM

now that Syria, Hezbulah and Hamas are flush with money and arms

Everything will hit the fan within days of the inauguration. Expect to wake up in late January to a full blown war on Israel, Russian troops in Georgia and the Ukraine and Chinese warships shutting down Taiwan with barry withdrawing all US forces to thier bases.

peacenprosperity on November 16, 2008 at 11:23 AM

We don’t know for certain what Obama will do. What we do know for certain is that his instincts will always be wrong.

Basilsbest on November 16, 2008 at 11:24 AM

I can realistically imagine land deals, but they MUST be kidding about giving away all or part of East Jerusalem.

Attila (Pillage Idiot) on November 16, 2008 at 11:24 AM

No, but it’s level of debate a person who insinuates Obama is trying to rid the world of the Jewish race deserves and will get from me. Idiots like yourself do not deserve to have much thought wasted on them.

Tom_Shipley on November 16, 2008 at 11:19 AM

Liberals like yourself have always failed to understand cause and effect. The effect of this peace plan is the destruction of Isreal. The cause is Obama’s support of the plan. It matters not what his intentions were to support such a plan. The result is what matters and that result will be the second holocaust of the Jewish people.

And thus will be known throughout history as Obama’s Final Solution to the Jewish problem.

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 11:26 AM

The Palestinians already have a capital. It’s named “Amman”.

The Monster on November 16, 2008 at 11:28 AM

Next: Obama demands Alaska be returned to Russia and the 13 colonies be returned to England.

drjohn on November 16, 2008 at 11:28 AM

I don’t want this to sound wrong–but this isn’t an issue of Jewishness for US foreign policy. This is an issue of Israel being our biggest ally in the region. Yes, we send them alot of money, etc, but they provide us with intelligence & political cover. So even if we wanted to make a deal with, say, France, to take some of Israel’s land, the concept is still wrong.

kelley in virginia on November 16, 2008 at 11:29 AM

They keep pushing this 1967 border thing. Clinton pushed it, Bush pushed it, Carter pushed it. The Israelis nod and say, “Sure that’d be nice.” But when push comes to shove, the Israelis will more likely than not tell everyone to go screw themselves. As much as they’d like peace with their crappy neighbours, they know very well that all withdrawing to those borders would do is set up another war…

It’s all rhetoric at this point. And I really doubt it will ever be more than rhetoric.

mjk on November 16, 2008 at 11:31 AM

kelley in virginia on November 16, 2008 at 11:29 AM

Careful Kelly Tom_AHOLE is getting ready to call you an idiot for a post that makes sense…

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 11:31 AM

Gird your loins.

kelley in virginia on November 16, 2008 at 11:32 AM

It’s all rhetoric at this point. And I really doubt it will ever be more than rhetoric.

mjk on November 16, 2008 at 11:31 AM

Let’s hope. If not it might be our Dunkirk.

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 11:33 AM

Obama is nuts if he thinks
1. Israel will return it’s borders back to 1967.
2. The Saudis are to be trusted, much less Syria.
3. That there will ever be peace in the middle east.
4. Even if an agreement is made it will never satisfy Hamas or Hezbolla.

dalec on November 16, 2008 at 11:33 AM

Gird your loins.

kelley in virginia on November 16, 2008 at 11:32 AM

LOL

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 11:33 AM

Next: Obama demands Alaska be returned to Russia and the 13 colonies be returned to England.
drjohn on November 16, 2008 at 11:28 AM

I like the 13 colonies part.

sheriff246 on November 16, 2008 at 11:33 AM

And whoever said that Obama’s instincts on this are wrong, is exactly right.

kelley in virginia on November 16, 2008 at 11:33 AM

Gird your lions, even. :)

mjk on November 16, 2008 at 11:34 AM

Israeli friends of mine roll their eyes everytime the 1967 border thing comes up. They know it’s a bad bad idea….

But since when have politicians done what’s best for their own people?

mjk on November 16, 2008 at 11:35 AM

It’s time for Israel to tell the world that the Pals deserve NOTHING at all, will be getting no state of any kind, and must be transferred out of the West Bank. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts. Then, if Israel had any brains, they would leave the UN. The ball is in Israel’s court.

I can’t wait to see what China starts doing with Taiwan.

Unless our SCOTUS gets some brains and balls and demands the birth certificate finally be coughed up, the world is in for the very, very dark times of the US being ruled by a naive, childish, inexperienced marxist with an IQ of 86. It will be very, very ugly.

progressoverpeace on November 16, 2008 at 11:35 AM

The 1967 borders can not be defended.

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 11:07 AM

Yes indeed, this was recognized by the crafters of the UN resolution at the end of the war, and is why they used language that did NOT require the return of ALL the land occupied as a result of Israel’s victory.

Without the West Bank, Israel is practically 2 separate pieces because the stretch between Tel Aviv and Haifa is so narrow. And the Golan looms over the northern piece.

A return to the ’67 borders will mean a return to pre-1967 situation, I have no doubt. And who will support Israel when they defend themselves? An Obama administration? Somehow I doubt it.

ProfessorMiao on November 16, 2008 at 11:35 AM

And whoever said that Obama’s instincts on this are wrong, is exactly right.

kelley in virginia on November 16, 2008 at 11:33 AM

That would be anyone with half a brain. Now that leaves Tom_Ahole out but so far it’s 99% of the posters on this board.

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 11:35 AM

He concluded that the Saudi plan would give Israel peace with the entire Muslim world. Really? It might make it palatable for some states like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to start diplomatic relations with Israel, and perhaps even Syria if they get back the Golan Heights. But who believes that Iran, Yemen, Libya, Sudan, and the proxy armies of Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad will suddenly discover brotherly love with such a settlement? They want Israel wiped off the map, literally in Iran’s case, and the Israelis driven into the Mediterranean.

So what’s the answer, Ed? Not to push ANY peace plan that would get Arab nations to recognize Israel? Not push ANY plan? What’s your answer to the problem.

You can ask these same questions about ANY peace plan for Israel and Palestine. It doesn’t mean you don’t try. And it doesn’t mean anyone pushing this plan thinks it will magically make all the hatred in the Mideast disappear overnight. But, a plan like this could be a great step in that direction. If you could get a country like Iran to say Israel has a right to exist, would that not be great progress?

Tom_Shipley on November 16, 2008 at 11:35 AM

Well, Obambi can suggest that Alaska be returned to Russia, but I bet our Sarah wouldn’t let that happen.

kelley in virginia on November 16, 2008 at 11:35 AM

Mr. Shipley, Iran may say Israel has a right to exist (and I can’t even imagine they would do that), but would anyone in the world other than the UN actually believe them?

kelley in virginia on November 16, 2008 at 11:37 AM

ProfessorMiao on November 16, 2008 at 11:35 AM

Careful Professor. with truth like this you might hurt the Obama supporters feelings.

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 11:37 AM

I’ve got to start cooking for the great Skins v. Cowboys game. bye for now

kelley in virginia on November 16, 2008 at 11:38 AM

If you could get a country like Iran to say Israel has a right to exist, would that not be great progress?

Tom_Shipley on November 16, 2008 at 11:35 AM

Are you really a moron or do you just play one on blogs?

progressoverpeace on November 16, 2008 at 11:38 AM

Shipley, with all the pro-palestinian and radical arab extremest ties and associates Obama has been involved with over the years… I think it’s you that must provide evidence that he will do everything possible to preserve the Jewish state and its people!

Exactly what ties are you talking about, Katy?

And show me any instance where Obama has said or shown anything but support for the state of Israel to exist.

Tom_Shipley on November 16, 2008 at 11:39 AM

Though (leftist) Israeli leaders support this plan, they’re not taking into account a few things, such as the number of Jews living in post-67 territories (over half a million), and the Arabs themselves, the little issue that the plan intends to create one Arab-only state but leave Israel as a bi-national state and last but not least: come January Abbas’ term is up and Hamas will not sit by idly while Fatah usurps government rule.

Phoenician on November 16, 2008 at 11:39 AM

You can ask these same questions about ANY peace plan for Israel and Palestine. It doesn’t mean you don’t try. And it doesn’t mean anyone pushing this plan thinks it will magically make all the hatred in the Mideast disappear overnight. But, a plan like this could be a great step in that direction. If you could get a country like Iran to say Israel has a right to exist, would that not be great progress?

Tom_Shipley on November 16, 2008 at 11:35 AM

You are beyond clueless. How old are you? 6?

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 11:39 AM

progressoverpeace on November 16, 2008 at 11:38 AM

So it would not be progress to get Iran to recognize the right of Israel to exist?

Tom_Shipley on November 16, 2008 at 11:39 AM

And yet 80% of Jews voted for this guy. The world makes no sense anymore.

angryed on November 16, 2008 at 11:41 AM

If you could get a country like Iran to say Israel has a right to exist, would that not be great progress?

Tom_Shipley on November 16, 2008 at 11:35 AM

OH MY GAWD…WHAT PLANET HAVE YOU BEEN LIVING ON FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS!!! NUFF SAID! YOU ARE BRAINDEAD!

katy on November 16, 2008 at 11:41 AM

And show me any instance where Obama has said or shown anything but support for the state of Israel to exist.

Tom_Shipley on November 16, 2008 at 11:39 AM

Hmmm. His support of the Suadi peace plan? Man you are clueless. It’s like debating a 4 yer old. Go get some candy and leave the adults alone to discuss things.

unseen on November 16, 2008 at 11:41 AM

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