Atheists…homosexuals all vored for Obama.

tocoloro on November 13, 2008 at 1:04 PM

Wrong.

I don’t really see this landscape changing anytime soon. There will be theists who actually believe in the old-fashioned deity. There will be more “theists” redefining God as they see fit. For the most part their definitions wouldn’t even make sense if they were forced to come up with a definition. And there will be atheists who fall into the trap of trying to tell the “theists” that they are wrong, but “theists” won’t agree to discuss the issue.

Krydor on November 12, 2008 at 8:55 PM

As a Christian who gladly gave up a week of vacation to go down from Ohio to volunteer two weeks after Katrina… you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Thousands of us came down just from central Ohio. I know that for a fact because my cousin was a big organizer of trips. He himself made over seven trips and worked coordinated trips with locations down there.

Material donations flowed into the churches, organized and distributed by volunteers. Every church in the area was used. For our trip down, people donated money for food and gas, churches put us up overnight, and then hosted us when we were down there.

American Red Cross… not so much… I only saw 2 Red Cross vehicles the entire time I was down there… one sitting abandoned in a parking lot, and the other in New Orleans. I operated out of Mandeville, but also visited Fulsom and Slidel. My cousin was in the first group admitted into New Orleans that week.

Every church was being used, lines of cars lined up. I personally drove distribution truck teams out into the suburbs, going door-to-door distributing supplies, and later mucking out houses.

Later in the week, I led a group that prayed for water. Because our supply routes were running thin. Only a palette or so was left at the church. So us guys prayed… for water. The next day we were asked to go pickup a load of water. A half-semi truck had been delivered to a Harvest Church in Slidel. So me and some guys from Columbus Oh (Church of Nazarene and Church of Christ) picked up a 9-ton load of water with a truck from Church of Christ in Mandeville, to deliver to Fulsom to a Baptist Church, manned by volunteers from a non-denominational church from Tennessee. And that’s how the body of Christ is supposed to work.

Volunteers, working out of churches were the only teams going door-to-door. We were the only teams of chainsaw crews removing trees from houses (which was required before they could turn on power).

We gave what we could and asked for nothing in return. I talked to dozens of teams and ran into dozens of groups in transit, and heard stories similar.

A quote from that one week trip…

(From a guy who was standing next to his destroyed house)… “You’re Christians aren’t you. I know because you’re the tenth truck that’s come by today… asking if I needed help… and all of them were Christians from some church… not even from around here.”

And when I come back, after seeing such dedication and sacrifice and service to fellow man, back to the “real” world…

…I hear constant commercials for the American Red Cross, who barely lifted a finger, begging for more and more and more money. Where did the millions go? I’ll give blood, but not one dime after what I saw. If you really care about disasters, give to churches… they were the ones doing real work.

…not one word about the massive distribution channels, volunteers and work of the churches.

…and after even years, I hear even more lies… some from you.

Am I angry about what you said? Yes, I should be angry when lies are spread to smother truth. Am I going to call you names and spread more hate? No. That is not what Christians are about. But I will not allow lies to cover the truth of what happened.

I pray that you will eventually turn to God, and that he can work in you what He worked in me.

The bigger argument is the attempted co-opting of a religious holiday – Christmas – by these groups.
PJ Emeritus on November 13, 2008 at 10:07 AM

Atheists constantly claim they aren’t overtly “pro-Satan,” but is it possible to be more overtly “anti-Christ” than that?

A very small handful of Atheists, like Christopher Hitchens, are equinimical in their intolerance – carefully apportioning their bile and hating everyone who believes everything with the exact same level of vehemence.

But the vast majority of “Atheists” are really just puerile posers, focusing their spite on the one religion they happen to see most often around them, and doing it with the infantile sort of contempt that’s born solely of familiarity.

…Overgrown punks trying to play at being radical. They think that just because they don’t draw pentagrams and bathe in goat’s blood, their infantile rebellion is somehow more chique.

jgapinoy on November 13, 2008 at 9:36 AM

Ok, I lied. One more post. Look up confirmation bias, cross-reference Nostradamus.

3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not

For example. Was Jesus despised by men? On the contrary, he was so popular that Roman authorities saw him as a political threat.

jgapinoy on November 13, 2008 at 9:08 AM

I hate flooding the thread like this, so I’ll make this my last post. Psalm 22 is a poem, not a prophecy. David is writing in the first person, “they pierce my hands and feet.” It’s a poignant verse about tribulation and betrayal.

Isaiah 52 is specifically about freeing the Jews from Egypt, so right off the bat it contradicts the idea that Jesus was a spiritual savior (rather than a political savior). Even if you ignore the verses about “redeeming Jerusalem” and “apportioning soil” it’s still open to interpretation. There’s certainly nothing about a crucifixion, and nothing about Rome.

14 Just as there were many who were appalled at him —
his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man
and his form marred beyond human likeness—

15 so will he sprinkle many nations,
and kings will shut their mouths because of him.
For what they were not told, they will see,
and what they have not heard, they will understand.

1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

11 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied ;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.

jgapinoy on November 13, 2008 at 9:08 AM

Basically, we’re going to have a pointless argument about how to interpret arcane verse. I think you’re attributing meaning that just isn’t there after the fact to fit the life of Jesus. You’ll disagree. It’s all good.

jgapinoy on November 13, 2008 at 9:08 AM

You’re not going to surprise me. I was raised with this stuff, and I took it seriously.

it’s not clear how well Jesus fulfilled Jewish messianic prophecies…the prophecies were written to be self-fulfilling, or left vague enough to be retrofitted.

It was clearly predicted that he would be born of a virgin in Bethlehem. How did he work that out, if he’s not really divine?
Many details of his death were predicted in Isaiah 52 & 53, as well as Psalm 22. If he tried to self-fulfill those, why would he want to die if there’s no resurrection?
There were dozens of predictions about his first coming, & many more about his second. I suggest you prepare for that.

*snip*For starters, I suggest would be to REALLY study Genesis, Exodus, Daniel Isaiah, the Gospels, Corinthians and Hebrews. See how the Old Testament prophecies fit with the New Testament in ways the original Jews would have never foreseen.*snip*

johnboy on November 13, 2008 at 7:52 AM

it’s not clear how well Jesus fulfilled Jewish messianic prophecies. If it were as clear as you’re implying, there wouldn’t be any Jews. Also, the prophecies were written to be self-fulfilling, or left vague enough to be retrofitted. Jesus’ claim is as controversial now as it was 2000 years ago.

The rest was some variation of “Christianity is true because it enriches my life.” That may be a good reason to practice Christianity, and I think it’s true for most Christians, but it’s not a good reason to believe that Christian mythology is literally true.

jgapinoy on November 13, 2008 at 8:10 AM

Sally Ann happens to be one of my favorite charities. I donate both money and food to them. One of the only charities I trust.

You still haven’t provided any citations, nor have you shown that Christians are always “first there”. Because they aren’t.

Just one based on the faith, without evidence, that God does not exist.

Are religions allowed to advertise on public city busses?

IF not, Anti-religion should be denied on the same bases.

Krydor on November 13, 2008 at 8:03 AM

My wife & I are very involved with this one & this one.