Surprise: Gun sales through the roof since election
posted at 9:00 pm on November 12, 2008 by Allahpundit
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The LA Times piece is even more vivid than the clip. What’s the problem? Can’t a guy flip-flop egregiously on a watershed Second Amendment case in the middle of a campaign without people questioning whether he’s serious about gun rights?
At this rate, The One might end up being the best friend the NRA ever had. Exit question: Will the Rahm Emanuel Civil Defense Corps be lending a hand in gun “registration” enforcement, or will we be leaving that to the pros?
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Tried to read back through to the commenter who said the Obamagoons will come with smiles and helping hands and not with flashlights and saps…at first.
These ‘common sense’ laws will be laid down as public health issues first. I hate to be crude but we all know another Columbine is going to happen. That will be the green light for these public health laws to get shoved down your throat. Then that goon squad will be reporting every NRA member bumper sticker in the neighborhood.
Limerick on November 13, 2008 at 1:19 AM
You may not believe this but the day you posted that recipe I printed it out and stuck it to my refrigerator where it remains to this day. In fact *squinting*, I can actually see it from where I’m sitting now. I have not made the soup. But that is only because I refuse to try it with store-bought garlic. I am patiently waiting for our homegrown crop. Garlic is a winter crop here. Cute little things are about 4 inches tall in my herb bed as we speak. But I see that mouthwatering recipe every day, and relish the anticipation!
RushBaby on November 13, 2008 at 1:26 AM
Getting sleepy here in Georgia (where the thought of digging deep holes in hard clay makes my back hurt). Maybe tomorrow I’ll get that spare – one to keep at the ready, the other kept in a safe place…
Mini14 on November 13, 2008 at 1:27 AM
Lock and load baby…..lock and load.
Winebabe on November 13, 2008 at 1:35 AM
I look forward to your opinion.
I think I pointed it out back at the time, (unless I wanted it to be a surprise), be aware that the combination of the garbanzo beans and garlic means you should try it when you have a few days alone or with like minded people. :)
The garbanzos are an important ingredient IMO, though, so don’t leave them out unless you decide to alter the recipe later.
FloatingRock on November 13, 2008 at 1:36 AM
I have a bunch of grandkids and they all have little friends. Not a single one of them hasn’t been interested in learning how to shoot, willing to try all calibers, etc. And it doesn’t stop there. They are never more attentive than when they are learning gun safety, cleaning, etc. Getting to practice is all the reward they need for their full attention to your teaching. This applies, btw, all the way down to a 6yo.
RushBaby on November 13, 2008 at 1:36 AM
Sorry…. my last response was supposed to be to RushBaby.
FloatingRock on November 13, 2008 at 1:37 AM
I have read that recipe dozens of times and plan to follow it to the letter. I’ll give you honest “feedback” I assure you!
RushBaby on November 13, 2008 at 1:44 AM
AMMO more important than guns. Go stock up on 9mm, even if you don’t have a gun. You can sell it later for a profit at least. AMMO values have gone up drastically since January. Will continue to rise. Buy guns and ammo in cash, need I explain? And, start kissing up to the freaky gun people. They are like dog people, very nice.
anti-boomer on November 13, 2008 at 2:29 AM
Hello, I’m from the government and I’ve come here to help you.
petefrt on November 13, 2008 at 6:53 AM
RE: anti-boomer
Can you purchase ammo even if you don’t have a license for a gun yet? Once upon a time when I lived in Western New York State, I was on the verge of getting my pistol permit… but then I knew I’d be moving to Connecticut and didn’t want the hassle of transferring the license, if it was even possible.
Now I’ve been in CT for over 10 years and have just recently initiated the paperwork and training to get a permit here. People tell me it takes a long time (8-10 weeks, each) for the local and then the almost-necessary state permits to get “processed”. (The state one allows conceal/carry.)
Anyway, I plan to get a .357 Lady Smith when everything goes through. Do you know if I can begin purchasing ammo for it now? Does it depend on which state I live in?
Thanks for whatever info you can provide…
Logic on November 13, 2008 at 6:58 AM
Just bought two new colt AR’s and a 45 pistol now time to buy ammo galore….
Taught my wife how to shoot…she loves it now we will have his and hers assault rifles:)
reaganrules on November 13, 2008 at 7:09 AM
I just bought a Sig 9mm because of the election. I probably wouldn’t have bought a gun if it weren’t for Bambi. Next on the list, 12 guage and 0.223 rifle. I’m gonna be ready when the stuff goes down.
loudmouth883 on November 13, 2008 at 7:19 AM
Looking at one of those myself – that or an HK.
Very nice guns – not a big fan of the Glock look.
Question to the gun knowledgeable:
Is there a benefit to buying a 9mm over a .45?
Mr Purple on November 13, 2008 at 7:43 AM
If I hear the term “assault rifle” one more time…
pugwriter on November 13, 2008 at 7:44 AM
Most folks understand nowadays that public schools train armies of little socialists to become PC ‘change agents’, overruling the traditional values of their parents.
But the left uses public schools not just to mold children’s minds, but also to attack parents through their children. Public schools use children to inform on parents (any guns in house?) and as vehicles for carrying their propaganda (such as MGW) back to their families.
Recently we’ve seen MSM transition from traditional standards of journalism to aggressive political activism. A parallel transition is under way, IMO, in the public schools. The intent is that your child upon adulthood becomes a PC ‘change agent’, and meanwhile serves as their pipeline into your home and family life.
It’s for the good of the children.
petefrt on November 13, 2008 at 7:48 AM
Fuck Obama
docweasel on November 13, 2008 at 7:52 AM
The 9mm is less expensive and doesn’t have the heavy recoil of a .45. The .45 has more stopping power, but in the vast majority of self-defense situations the 9mm will do just fine.
Folks who are small framed should probably go with the 9mm. But then, I’ve seen some tiny women at the range tear through a target course with a .45.
pugwriter on November 13, 2008 at 7:57 AM
Mr. Purple,
I use a .40 Smith & Wesson most of the time. It’s a real nice compromise between the 9 and the .45. But that’s just me.
Frankly, I think at least two of everything is the best way to go. :D
pugwriter on November 13, 2008 at 8:01 AM
Hilarious – the almost exact three that I’m buying, although the rifle will probably be .3006. But, honestly, I have no fear of Obama banning all guns, just semi-auto and assault rifles. Both are stupid ideas, and we’ll need to get possession and ammo quickly.
This will happen in less than a year.
I’m looking for a good semi-auto pistol or three, Sig or Beretta or S&W. Would love a Kimber, but $$$.
Jaibones on November 13, 2008 at 8:01 AM
My neighbor loads his own ammunition, and getting set up might be smart. They will go after the ammo.
Jaibones on November 13, 2008 at 8:01 AM
AFAIK, the only state you need a permit to buy ammo for is….wait for it… Illinois! Home of barry the man-child. Double check with your local law enforcement, but IIRC, all other states you can openly purchase ammunition without any sort of permit.
The age old question. Ask 100 different people, and you’ll get 100 different answers. Depends on who you ask, really. Bottom line, 9mm smaller projectile, faster muzzle velocity, stopping power…. could be an issue. 45 ACP, much larger round, slower, but should never be an issue with stopping power.
rightside on November 13, 2008 at 8:03 AM
Is there a benefit to buying a 9mm over a .45?
Mr Purple on November 13, 2008 at 7:43 AM
Cheaper ammo that will allow you to practice more (which is important) and a little easier to shoot with less recoil (especially for double taps).
IMHO, the .45 is a much better man stopper…but two well placed 9mm shots will do the trick too.
John Doe on November 13, 2008 at 8:07 AM
Looks like the country folk are right afeared of teh marxist muslim.
Vernon Hardapple on November 13, 2008 at 8:09 AM
I bought my Glock the Sunday before the election.
Eight years of President Bush never made me think I needed a firearm to defend my family.
But the prospect of an unqualified, inexperienced, corrupt neo-Marxist becoming President, did.
NoDonkey on November 13, 2008 at 8:16 AM
A 9mm weighs a bit less than a .45, both for the handgun & ammo.
However, the 9mm makes smaller holes than a .45, so it takes more 9mm bullets on target to be effective. You can fit a man’s fist in a.45 hole in ballistic gel.
As an advocate of gun control, in the form of hitting only what you intend to shoot at, I recommend laser sights and Glaser Safety ammo (to reduce risk of ricochet). Glaser ammo is not cheap, so use something else for target practice & breaking in a firearm.
Right_of_Attila on November 13, 2008 at 8:18 AM
For those who are unaware…
Assault rifles are, by definition, those capable of fully automatic fire. Meaning, you pull the trigger once, and the weapon continues firing the rounds until you empty the magazine, or you release the trigger. You cannot purchase, nor own one unless you have a Class 3 firearms license to do so, and they are very hard to get, and expensive.
There are literally thousands of laws already on the books governing them, so all this talk about implementing another “assault weapons” ban, is pure nonsense.
rightside on November 13, 2008 at 8:18 AM
All this “prepare to defend yourself” stuff is fine, but people need to do a little reality check here too. Here are a few things to consider.
If gun confiscation laws are passed it will become law. The people who will come to enforce the law will be your local police officers. Most of them will not agree with the law but will be acting on orders and will feel they have no choice. So, when you consider armed resistance, the psychology you need to be dealing with involves being willing to have a gun fight with the cop who’s kids go to school with your kids.
As far as hording ammo, that quickly gets beyond logical. Your house is not a fort and if you think you can just hole up there and fight it out until the enemy give sup and leaves you alone, you may want to do a Google search on “Waco” to see how that will probably turn out. If things ever come to the point of an armed resistance really having to fight against the government forces, mobility will be the key. Hit and run. That is hard to do with 10,000 rounds of ammo. If things get to that point the smart money says to be prepared to use your new enemy as a supply source, so it is a good idea to have firearms that use the same ammo they will be using.
It might also be a good idea to have at least a few arms that were purchased from unrelated private sellers, paid for in cash and that have not paper trail leading to your door. Those should not be kept with the others and should probably be cached for use after the registered ones are gone. But even that is a stop-gap measure. Your only dependable weapon is your brain, and a devious will to use it to fight back and win. If you posses that you have a chance no matter how poor you larder and arsenal. Without it no amount of supplies laid in will be enough.
Will Obama ever try to do this? Hard to say at this point. Obama is a Marxist so he will WANT to secure his hold on power if he thinks he can do it and make it stick. It will be up to you, and me and millions of our friends and neighbors to make the risk appear to outweigh the potential gain. Marxists will never give up on the idea of total control, but they are cowards at heart, so if they think you will fight back they will continue the smiles and political tap dance towards the time they think they can overcome your resistance.
That is where we are today folks. Elections have consequences, and this one has many.
MikeA on November 13, 2008 at 8:25 AM
That is all true, if you are talking about facts and logic. But we are talking about a Marxist administration leading a bunch of far left loony-tunes Democrats. That means when they start doing what they always do, an assult rifle will be whatever they say it is. Could be a soda straw and a pocket full of bb’s. If they don’t want you to have it, it will be outlawed.
MikeA on November 13, 2008 at 8:36 AM
“If gun confiscation laws are passed it will become law. The people who will come to enforce the law will be your local police officers. Most of them will not agree with the law but will be acting on orders and will feel they have no choice.”
No problem, we’ll all just submit reports that we “lost” our weapons. Can’t find them. Vanished into thin air. Stolen.
I’m sure our local cops will understand that. Liberals think of us all as irresponsible children anyway. They’ll understand that we failed to bitterly cling to our weapons and lost our toys.
NoDonkey on November 13, 2008 at 8:38 AM
Nodonkey, no they won’t. They will search your house. And your garage and barn and anyplace else they think you might hide “contraband”. They will also not find it funny at the time.
MikeA on November 13, 2008 at 8:43 AM
“Nodonkey, no they won’t. They will search your house. And your garage and barn and anyplace else they think you might hide “contraband”. They will also not find it funny at the time.”
Great, they’ll be wasting their time. The guns will be far away. They cam search until next Tuesday and they won’t find them.
And the more of us who do that, the more time of theirs we’ll waste.
The more demoralized law enforcement, the more local politicians will complain to the Obama Administration the more resistance there will be.
We’re not sheep. This isn’t Russia. This isn’t China. We’re Americans. We’re innovative in our resistance and we’ll destroy Obama just like we did King George III.
NoDonkey on November 13, 2008 at 8:48 AM
I just got a reloader and a Thompson Center. I’ve been told that reloading is the relaxation-equivalent of gardening for the gun savvy. After deer season we’ll see! We have some pretty expensive bullets/shells so a reloader made sense. I’m not skeered of Obama – I’m just protecting myself. Should have done it years ago.
Doppleganker on November 13, 2008 at 8:51 AM
And by the way, as a woman I really enjoy my Walther P22 – plus it uses very inexpensive bullets. Yes, the first round might just piss them off, but that’s why they made it semi-automatic.
Doppleganker on November 13, 2008 at 8:59 AM
Your post reminded me of the line fromm the movie “We Were Soldiers Once” for some reason. The First Sergeant, when told to get a rifle, responds something like “if it comes to the point I need one, there will be plenty lying around on the ground.” Good movie, by the way.
You do make sense about the ammo. It might be a good idea to have a “bug out kit” for each weapon. A bag or case with the gun, mags, some ammo, cleaning kit, etc. I’d rather have too much than too little, but having to use a wheelbarrow to move around could be cumbersome.
I’ve got all by reloading equipment for each gun, so I can “roll my own” and save space and money. It’s really kinda fun too. But that’s not something you can lug around easily either.
I feel a little weird talking about this stuff in such serious tones, but we really do need to be prepared.
Mini14 on November 13, 2008 at 9:05 AM
I want a gun to defend myself not only from the Marxist horde, but also from the “emboldened”. After this election, it is perfectly ok to be a domestic terrorist, a financial fraud, a liar, a voter suppressionist etc. These are the “regular” people of whom i’m afraid.
kelley in virginia on November 13, 2008 at 9:11 AM
The only “common sense” gun law we need we’ve had to over 200 years –
The Second Amendment.
The only permit ANYONE should need in any part of this nation is –
The Second Amendment.
Of course the Obama Administration will come after guns. The only question is when. They know this is a bellweather issue and one in which they lost Congress in 1994. Will they try before or after 2010? That is the question.
If you already own firearms, concentrate on buying ammo and accessories.
If you want to “roll your own”, the initial expense can be high depending on the re-loading set-up you want. You will also need to stock up on components – bullets, brass, powder, primers, etc.
catmman on November 13, 2008 at 9:14 AM
The P22 was my son’s first pistol. Really cool gun, fits his hand well, but feels good to me too. Light weight, pretty accurate, and reliable – no jams at all since we bought it. He likes the way it looks too. We put a lot of rounds through it this weekend for cheap.
“Yes, the first round might just piss them off, but that’s why they made it semi-automatic.”
Awesome quote!
Mini14 on November 13, 2008 at 9:18 AM
Reloaders we priced ranged from $230 (at Walmart) to $400 (Hornady lock ‘n load). The financial savings over time will make up for the initial setup costs. For example, my husband’s 300 win mag ammunition is like $50/box.
Doppleganker on November 13, 2008 at 9:19 AM
Nodonkey, I admire your spunk. They won’t. Of course you need to plan and part of that plan needs to be caching some supplies, including weapons and ammo. But this is not a game or a movie and it will not go at all easily for our side if they decide to do what we are all afraid how they are going to do. History tells us that when they come for your guns and don’t find them, they will take you instead. Or your family, or your job, or your assets, or your life. Bottom line is that if they think you have weapons it means they have already identified you as a threat. If they can’t neutralize the threat because you hid the weapons, they may just kill you. And please don’t say they can’t do that. They will be making the rules at that point and can do whatever the hell they want to do.
Think of all the places in the world we have had to fight guerrilla wars. The guerrillas that make the fight the hardest are those that learn to put their enemies on the defensive. Those that have been that most difficult for the US forces around the world to overcome, are the ones we need to be using as role models for the 2nd American Revolution. The best way to not fear the valley of death it to become the meanest son-of-a-bitch in the valley.
Don’t worry about when they will bring the fight to you. Take the fight to them. Let them hide in fear.
MikeA on November 13, 2008 at 9:20 AM
Thanks! I can’t shoot my husband ginormous revolver that can put holes in trees, so we got the P22 – which is used in many competitions. I’ve enjoyed it and love the look as well. I can’t wait until my son is old enough to use it (he’s only 2 years old but a girl can dream can’t she?).
Doppleganker on November 13, 2008 at 9:21 AM
Huum. Looks like I’m being “moderated” by the admin here.
MikeA on November 13, 2008 at 9:21 AM
A young 19 year old Republican supporter got beat-up pretty badly just off campus (Montana U) by a group of (3) young men chanting “death to all racists.”
Here in my area, we say “bring it on” baby! Three chickenshit wimps feeling powerful when the odds are 3-1. Life has a way of dishing out payback to thugs and thieves.
Our gun cabinet is fully stocked; our pantry is fully stocked with canned food; our freezer is fully stocked with deer & elk.
All I can say to those (3) punks is “you had better hope the law catches up with you first.”
Keemo on November 13, 2008 at 9:36 AM
Just get a weapon, your right to keep and bear arms trumps any bullsh1t state or local law!
You know just like all the other amendments.
Do you think a local state law can take away your 1st amendment rights.
Do you think the local sheriff or governor can take away women’s or Black’s right to vote?
Hell know they can’t! It is expressly outlined in the constitution for you to have these rights.
Also see the 14th amendment which says that states can not take away these rights!
Why does it seem many people think that there local state or city law can infringe on the right to keep and bear arms?
Think about it!
TheSitRep on November 13, 2008 at 9:44 AM
I think everyone should check out Bill H.R. 1022. It is a proposed bill already in the House of Representatives. The liberals have been sitting on this one for a while. H.R. 1022 is “The reauthorization of the Assault Weapons ban”. If you read the bill, the broadness of its contents will stand out.
Now that Congress is solidly in the liberals hands, does anyone want to place a bet on whether this gets rammed through in an Obama administration?
xtremeangler on November 13, 2008 at 9:44 AM
The bailout is a mess:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/12/AR2008111202846.html?hpid=topnews
getalife on November 13, 2008 at 9:47 AM
Remember the comming horde see’s nothing wrong with sucking the brains out a half born child for money! Do not be miss lead by the light worker’s civil sounding verbs. The horde will be anger driven minorities with the power of the state to silence all. Homosexuals,nation of islam,black panthers the blueprint saul alinkey’s book do not scare people till your strong enough to overcome them. Yes many will throw down their arms and surender, But some patroits will not!
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com
nowhiners on November 13, 2008 at 9:47 AM
During Katrina local police confiscated guns under a “state of emergency”, leaving people defenseless at a critical time.
No reason to think Obama’s followers would be reluctant to do the same.
Mini14 on November 13, 2008 at 9:57 AM
mmmmmmcheapammunitionmmmmmmm
Doppleganker on November 13, 2008 at 9:58 AM
Guys, if anyone is interested, the Listening to Katrina series is an outstanding resource for developing a plan to, as he puts it, Have Your S*** Together (HYST). He also goes further than anybody else I’ve read in how to arm your mind for survival, rather than simply having the most gadgets. Look, Tremors is a helluva fun movie, and Alex P. Keaton’s dad makes a great survivalist archetype, but the fact of the matter is that if the s*** hits the fan, you’re gonna need more than a big gun and lots of provisions. You have to plan to survive, but you must also consider the “what if” scenarios and the fallout. Being mentally prepared is twice as important as having a bug out bag and lots of ammo.
As to Mr. Purple’s questions on advantages/disadvantages of 9mm vs. .45, go to a hundred forums and you’ll see the millions of dead bodies from that ongoing war. Several commenters have echoed similar advice to mine, namely: find what works best for you. Go to a gun range, rent and shoot several types of firearm, and go with what you are most comfortable shooting and handling. Something to help guide you – 9mm is cheaper, faster and comes in many exotic loads, some of which are actually useful. 45-cal is a man-stopper round, but shoots heavy, can be terrifying to new shooters and puts a heckuva hurtin’ on your wrists and wallet when shot regularly. Also, capacity in a hi-cap 9mm can be as high as 19 in the mag and 1 in the tube, versus a .45, which is usually 8 in the mag and 1 in the tube. Quite honestly, you will have to decide for yourself, based on your needs and wants. Personally, I prefer the 9mm, due to my wife’s small frame and the cheaper ammunition. That said, accuracy and comfort trumps all. 20 rounds of 9mm goodness means s***-all if you can’t put lead on target.
Oh, and btw, check out the photo in the linked LA Times article. They’ve got the owner holding a S&W 500, which appears to be some Frankenmonster handgun to the uninitiated. I’ll bet he sold 25 guns that day, and they use the one of him holding that rocket launcher. Having shot one myself, it’s truly a sight to behold and feel. But, it is not a common gun. Props to them for reporting on it, and shame on them for subtly skewing the coverage.
Flyover Country on November 13, 2008 at 9:59 AM
People will argue this over and over. It comes down to this.
Maybe 45 has more stopping power.
9mm though, means more rounds in the magazine.
Since you should be shooting for the head anyway, stopping power isn’t an issue. Hitting with a headshot is.
MadisonConservative on November 13, 2008 at 10:01 AM
And those are the ones you need to get to know. The others don’t count.
MikeA on November 13, 2008 at 10:03 AM
That’s the money quote on this thread. Everyone needs to burn that into their mind and get serious about it starting today. They will not be intending to give you any second chance.
MikeA on November 13, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Are you saying to get to know the patriots or the weenies?
Doppleganker on November 13, 2008 at 10:08 AM
MikeA on November 13, 2008 at 10:11 AM
Awesome. I was just making sure. The weenies already ARE easy to identify.
Doppleganker on November 13, 2008 at 10:12 AM
I went to a gun show two weeks ago. The place was crawling with straight shooting, concealed carrying, cammo wearing, fish catching, truck driving, knife sharpening, self-sufficient, bible reading, American Patriots! I didn’t get the impression those guys will truck much more big government nonsense. Thank God I’m on their side.
flyfisher on November 13, 2008 at 10:12 AM
Word to the Wise, consider along with everything else, investing in some metal working equipment.
Buy a small metal lathe and mill and learn how to use it.
Even if you don’t you can eventually sell it to someone who can.
If they take away our guns, we can make more.
FirstBrigade on November 13, 2008 at 10:14 AM
RE: flyfisher on November 13, 2008 at 10:12 AM
You are absolutely correct. All the gun shows I’ve been too have top notch people sponsoring the event, not the crazy anarchists the media portrays.
By the way, tight lines.
xtremeangler on November 13, 2008 at 10:24 AM
Absolutely. And actually get out and use the theory and the tools. Just having it in the closet might make you feel better, but an emergency is not the time to try out your gear!
I think that along with the mindset, the tools and gear evolve with experience. Things that seem important now, might not have any value in the real world. And little things that you take for granted might become really important.
Mini14 on November 13, 2008 at 10:28 AM
For those of you who are thinking about buying a pistol, consider this. A pistol is only useful for fighting your way to a rifle. I carry a sidearm every day, but it is only for personal protection. When it comes to defending home, hearth, family, and country, a rifle is what you need.
Ideally, you should have one rifle, one pistol, and one shotgun. But, if you can only afford one gun…get a rifle. Buy in a common caliber, semiautomatic, and lots of magazines and as much ammo as you have room for. When it comes time to use them, load everything (don’t forget food and h2o) and everyone in the family truckster and head for the hills. There’s rednecks in them thar hills and they will be your best friends. Seek out like minded folks and have a contingency plan, there is safety in numbers.
Diversify in your group. Skills will be needed. Machinists, doctors, farmers, mechanics,electricians, folks with military experience. Get out a map and prepare lines of retreat. If you can afford it, buy a remote piece of property. Molon Labe.
Barntender on November 13, 2008 at 10:30 AM
“9mm though, means more rounds in the magazine.”
How many more rounds? My Glock 21 holds 13.
NoDonkey on November 13, 2008 at 10:31 AM
Gun sales are at a peak right now.
I went to the gun show both days last weekend, and everyone was in high dudgeon about Obama.
I saw very few semi-auto rifles (i.e. black rifles) there.
molonlabe28 on November 13, 2008 at 10:35 AM
My family owns a remote piece of property – we know it like the back of our hands and grew up playing “war games” there. I’m thinking seriously about selling my home in the city and building a house into one of the hills there.
Doppleganker on November 13, 2008 at 10:36 AM
xtremeangler,
Totally agree. The libs in the media totally distort the gun show crowd, just as they do all Second Amendment matters. And too many who are otherwise rational and reasonably conservative Americans buy the liberal line. They’ll change their minds only after the government takes rights or property they value.
flyfisher on November 13, 2008 at 10:36 AM
It’s funny, they try to portray us as uneducated trash. The libs I know are fascinated to learn all that we know about survival skills. You know, that and we all have at least undergrad degrees.
Doppleganker on November 13, 2008 at 10:38 AM
We like to refer to those as “Homeland Security Rifles.”
xtremeangler on November 13, 2008 at 10:40 AM
Ar-15
Enough said.
pseudonominus on November 13, 2008 at 10:40 AM
I really wish I could afford an AR-15. The cheapest I’ve seen one is $1200 at Academy.
Doppleganker on November 13, 2008 at 10:45 AM
??? Not sure I follow what you are trying to get at. The assault weapons ban has NOTHING to do with weapon capability it has to do with looks, magazine capacity, and auto reloading capabilities…..not full-auto fire.
Full auto fire is for idiots anyway. You pump more then a three round burst through a M16 you are begging for a jamb or simply waisting ammo. Semi-auto is the way to go. A well aimed shot is your best defense.
This ‘assault weapons’ ban is going to happen. From semi-auto pistols to more then single shot rifles. Any long gun with a pistol grip is, to the policitos, an assault weapon.
Limerick on November 13, 2008 at 10:46 AM
What state do you live in?
xtremeangler on November 13, 2008 at 10:47 AM
I was at a gun show back when the first “assault weapon” ban was being debated. A TV reporter waited outside until she found the person that most fit her image of the “average” gun owner. I asked her why she didn’t want to talk to me. I was more typical of the crowd. She just smiled behind her sunglasses and pretended I wasn’t even there.
Mini14 on November 13, 2008 at 10:49 AM
Texas. Hence the bloodlust :)
Doppleganker on November 13, 2008 at 10:50 AM
Did you notice our good buddy, Rahm Emmanuel is a co-sponsor of the new bill (H.R.1022)?
xtremeangler on November 13, 2008 at 10:51 AM
I bought my husband an AK-47 for under $500(never used) at a pawn shop – so maybe try that avenue.
This was in Texas, btw.
tru2tx on November 13, 2008 at 10:55 AM
Thanks! I will check the pawn shop avenue. Academy really used to be the cheapest but they’ve started slipping.
Doppleganker on November 13, 2008 at 10:57 AM
Yep. I have a masters in history, a doctorate (JD) and two professional certifications (law license and CPA).
A few years ago I attended a national tax conference in Miami. I ate lunch with a group of eight acquaintances from our Chicago office. These men ranged in age from 45-65. One of them mentioned someone they had known years before. During the conversation someone said, “Did you know he owned a handgun?” They grew silent, their eyes bulged, they took deep breaths. This group of successful middle-aged businessmen were incredulous that someone from their ranks owned a gun. I’ve never seen or heard anything like it (I’m from Tennessee). After listening to them discuss this abomination, I said, “I own two pistols, three rifles, and two shotguns. In fact, I’ve got a loaded one in the hotel parking garage right now.” When they asked why I had guns, I said, “Climb through my window at midnight or try to car-jack me and you will find out.” Not one of those men had ever fired a shot, not even with a BB gun. I can promise you those men are all staunch Republicans, but because of their local culture, they have been fooled by the liberal lies about guns. It’s troubling.
flyfisher on November 13, 2008 at 10:57 AM
OK, here’s another reality check.
At every one of those gun shows is a person collecting information for the government. Be careful who you talk to and how much information you give anyone you don’t know really well. It is not hard to dress up like a redneck and get into these groups. One of the really interesting, and not real smart, things about a lot of good old boys at gun shows is they talk too much. Still, the real deal is there too. Just beware of the wannabes and the sharps.
If we are talking here about an all out civil war, people need to grasp some hard to accept ideas.
Such as, are you prepared to create maximum chaos to give your enemy more to worry about than finding you and your stuff? If you “bug out”, are you prepared to burn your house to prevent it from being an asset for the enemy? Are you smart enough to leave the cell phone, and your teenaged kids cell phones in the ashes so they can’t be used to track your movements? In the short term, having a few unused, untraceable throw-away cell phones might be a good idea, but that will not last long. If you bug out you’ll be needing to break all the threads that can lead to where you went. Credit/debit cards for gas? forget it. Cash? That will work for about the first week. Do you know how to siphon fuel? Learn.
And running to the hills to join the redneck army is a little problematic too. To start with, most of those folks are going to be damned serious about what they are doing by that point. Part of that will be that they will be looking at those cars streaming in from the city as a supply train, not as reinforcements. Why should they trust you?
And you will not be fighting a gang or mob. The people you will be up against will have the latest high-tech gadgets on their side. Do you know how to evade thermal imaging devices? Do you understand basic rules of camouflage? Command/control ops? Escape and evasion?
I don’t want to discourage people into not trying, but you need to realize that if this happens is it going to be a damned hard thing to survive. If you are not prepared to get tough you won’t make it.
MikeA on November 13, 2008 at 10:57 AM
Ruger Mini-14, then.
But you must buy only Ruger factory magazines.
tru2tx’s advice is good, too: an AK is okay.
pseudonominus on November 13, 2008 at 10:59 AM
You shouldn’t have a problem getting one shipped to an F.F.L. holder in your state. Try these guys: http://www.ar15.com/
xtremeangler on November 13, 2008 at 10:59 AM
The G21 is an outstanding weapon, and like you said, has a 13+1 capacity for .45 ammo. Plus, it’s a Glock, so it’s reliable as can be. The capacity debate rages on, and if you’re comfortable carrying or using the 21, by all means do so.
I think what MadCon was saying is that generally speaking, you get more bullets in a 9 than in a .45 of equivalent size. Para Ordnance makes double-stacked .45’s, but those are full-size handguns, and don’t conceal very easily. More often than not, you will sacrifice capacity for bullet size, and then it becomes a preference issue. If you aren’t put off by the recoil, weight and size of a .45, and you are 100% accurate, then mag capacity is a moot point. Go with the bigger round. But, if you have warm-weather CC considerations, expense issues or need a more versatile bullet-launching platform, then 9mm tends to be the favored choice. And, what with all the excellent JHP rounds out now, the 9mm drops ‘em dead same as a .45.
I favor the 9mm for its smaller size, larger capacity, lower cost of ownership and my wife’s ability to point and shoot it without being terrified of the recoil and noise. Remember, the best gun is the one that you are most comfortable with. It’s all personal, but the debate rages on, with both sides having substantial empirical data to back up their personal preferences.
By the by, I love the 1911, variants thereof. It’s a gorgeous machine, and it’s true that the .45 is a more potent round, shot for shot. It’s just not as practical for my personal situation.
Flyover Country on November 13, 2008 at 10:59 AM
Glock 17 holds 17 9mm rounds. 4 extra rounds can make a world of difference.
MadisonConservative on November 13, 2008 at 11:01 AM
Build your own for half the price. Buy a stripped lower receiver (unless you buy from a private party, this will have to be bought from a licensed FFL dealer). Then, go to model1sales.com and buy an AR “kit”. This will include everything you need to turn your ~$125.00 stripped lower into a complete rifle. You will be able to choose from a list of options to tailor it to your needs (stock, barrel length, sights, etc), but you can get a plain jane kit that should serve you very well for less than $500.00 last I checked. So, you get a fine rifle with quality components for ~6-800 depending on how “tacti-cool” you want to go. These parts can be shipped directly to you without having to go through the FFL dealer.
Trust me, it is not at all difficult to do yourself at the kitchen table. Wooden mallet and needle nose pliers are the most sophisticated tools you’ll need. If you don’t have friends that can help you, there are many good resources on the interwebs.
Best part? You only pay the federal excise tax on the $125 receiver (to the ATF, this part is the “gun”). If you buy a complete rifle, you pay excise tax on $1,200.
Barntender on November 13, 2008 at 11:03 AM
I was on a law enforcement forum this morning looking for advice on some weapon questions.
One of the officers in the forum posted this to someone questioning the wisdom of having a weapon in the home…
Buy this man a cup of coffee and a dozen Crispy Cremes.
Limerick on November 13, 2008 at 11:04 AM
Glocks are okay if you are poor and can afford nothing else.
If you have the means, though…HK USP FTW
pseudonominus on November 13, 2008 at 11:06 AM
Example of someone not to listen to about firearms acquisition.
MadisonConservative on November 13, 2008 at 11:07 AM
Thanks for the AR-15 advice everyone – building one looks like the way to go.
Personally I’m more of a precision rifle gal than anything else, but if push comes to shove it might be nice to have something to pray-and-spray.
Doppleganker on November 13, 2008 at 11:07 AM
Ain’t America grand!
Great post.
Limerick on November 13, 2008 at 11:10 AM
You are exactly correct. I shoot a hybrid myself: Bushmaster lower, Rock River upper, with all the bells and whistles. Another idea is to buy an assembled lower receiver for those not mechanically inclined.
xtremeangler on November 13, 2008 at 11:10 AM
The local gun store guy told me that DPMS is raising the price $70 on their lowers…
Mini14 on November 13, 2008 at 11:11 AM
It is definitely a case of where you’re brainwashed. Everyone in my close circle is very well educated and just happens to love the finer things in life. It cracks me up to hear people of the same educational background (or worse if we’re talking celebrities) talk about me and my family as if we have 4 teeth and can’t read anything above the comics. I’m glad someone else has heard the horror in their voices when the subject is even brought up.
Doppleganker on November 13, 2008 at 11:15 AM
Fellas:
For the talk of digging holes, I would like to offer a thought….
The time when you feel the need to bury your guns is generally the time to begin using them.
I’m not trying to incite anything, but if we’re talking in the abstract about a government going door to door to confiscate guns…well, that’s exactly the scenario the Framers wanted to guard against when they enshrined the 2nd Amendment to begin with.
JohnTant on November 13, 2008 at 11:21 AM
USPs are the best right out-of-the-box functioning, accurate pistols I’ve ever had.
Of course there is no reasoning with 1911 fetishists or SIG snobs, but there you have it.
Glock = unsupported chamber (KB)
pseudonominus on November 13, 2008 at 11:25 AM
Another reason to hate DPMS
I’m glad I went Armalite clone (Noveske lower)for my AR-10 build.
pseudonominus on November 13, 2008 at 11:26 AM
We went right out & bought another rifle.
Ammo’s hard to get right now. Seems China’s buying up all the brass.
A person can never have too many guns.
BTW-what an ironic picture of America this brings us-the new president elect is scaring the $hit out of us so bad that we have to bo & buy more guns. Hmmm……
Badger40 on November 13, 2008 at 11:27 AM
Hypothetically speaking OF COURSE you’re correct.
Doppleganker on November 13, 2008 at 11:27 AM
Thanks for the advice, I’m new to this although I fired/carried numerous firearms in the Navy, I’ve never owned one before a couple of weeks ago.
I have an NRA instructor coming over next Saturday to give me a class on using the Glock and then we’re going to go to the NRA Range.
Will also get a rifle eventually, but want to start small first.
NoDonkey on November 13, 2008 at 11:34 AM
Surplus miltary rifles Russian M91/30,German Mauser,Czech Vz24,etc. are a great investment can buy three-four plus ammo for the price of an AR-15. The idea being to dismiss the enemy quickly and grab their weapons,ammo and gear etc. Most of the horde will not have the wits or know how to excute much of a plan (rely on their numbers and the peoples fear of missing TV). These are cowards at heart and will probe for any weakness in our resolve to repulse their advances. The correct mind set is number ONE stand your ground defend that which you love, remember there are worse things than death. For GOD and Country
nowhiners on November 13, 2008 at 11:36 AM
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