I do understand your point. What used to be called mainstream Protestanism (and some of Judiasm) disagrees with the Roman Catholic and Evangelical/Orthodox churches on abortion, though.

rci (That’s RCL), you’re not doing it for my good. You’re doing it for what you believe is your good. I left the Catholic Church 20 years ago because I disagreed with it.

Jim, whether or not you disagree I’m sure you’re cogent enough to realize the point. Christian, Jewish and Muslim believers all believe that God will not be mocked without a reckoning. We’re hoping America will change it’s ways and atone for its sins before we reap the whirlwind.

If your grandfather really was a Godfather (which I doubt), then I’d also suggest you also not publicly admit it in writing for your own good.

It’s true but I actually never knew him. He was assassinated coming home in a convoy from his casino in Mexico back in the ’30s. The G-Men, as my grandma called them, immediately after his death seized their house and all their money. My grandmother had a breakdown and my Mom, 13 at the time, was put into a foster home. The same year Mussolini seized their villa in Novara.

All I really know is from family stories and old photographs of paisans in silk suits, Don Moia and his daughter, the Duesenberg convertible in front of the big brick mansion. My Mom remembered their lives like a fairytale. Her favorite person ever, her Dad. Her favorite movie, The Godfather. Her life was very tough from his death forward.

So, if an Catholic Obama voter liked his positions on immigration, taxation, “social justice,” etc… he’s off the hook… until it changes again…

mankai on November 12, 2008 at 12:13 PM

Maybe that is true in your church, but at my Catholic Church our Priest consistantly preached on the associated evil of voting for someone who supported abortion, and he did this prior to the election.

He also commended my bringing in lawn signs advising people to vote against the local abortion issue on our ballot.

No one can blame my church for Obama getting elected.

DannoJyd on November 12, 2008 at 6:08 PM

My comment was related to Ratzinger’s (papal-approved) decree in July of 2004 which stated that a RC could vote for a Pro-Choice candidate if he determined that there were “other issues” upon which he based his decision.

It was vague (as these things often are) so the definitions and the bar can be changed when needed.

The Catholic Church recognizes no other “church” so I can’t help you there either. :)

The Catholic church is next. Except this time on abortion. I expect a great purge of Catholics–sometime soon, being a “cultural Catholic” won’t be allowed anymore. And I expect some rather severe persecution soon for Catholics, Mormons, and any other Christian religion that actually will stand up for morality. It’s already happening–but soon it will become more violent.

Ed Morissey at Hot Air tells us how serious the bishops are about not allowing Catholic Hospitals to be forced into performing abort ……

I took the time to read some of the links and they’re leaving some unanswered questions. Someone early on linked to a site where you can read the actual language of the FOCA (here.)

The language of the act seems to apply only to government agencies. I know that accepting government money makes this type of law apply to these hospitals (assuming as I do that they accept some government funds) but I’m wondering what percentage of their funding comes from the government.

Any idea? My thinking was an alternative might be to decline the funding and appeal to the faithful to make it up or simply scale back operations as necessary so the church could continue to supply health service to people that need it without taking the drastic step of closing these facilities that service people, many who have little in the way of alternatives.

The other thing that’s not clear to me is what percentage of hospitals in the US could be affected by this decision (I saw the absolute numbers, but have no idea what we’re talking about as a percentage of available hospitals nationwide). Do we have any idea what the impact would be to the overall supply of health care if FOCA passed and the Bishops made good on this threat?

I’d appreciate you helping to keep this issue front and center. Forcing Catholic hospitals to perform abortions against their most sacred foundation beliefs isn’t striking me as transcending politics.

Me too. I skipped this thread last night (or earlier) and came back to it now, but it’s made me depressed. Almost everything else I can rationalise, but not this.

*********

Thacker, I’m not a Catholic but I still wonder how you can say that the CC is forcing anything? It’s Obama who is forcing abortion down everybody’s throats. I thought it was supposed to be “pro-choice”? That implies you get to choose whether you want anything to do with it or not.

And you may not care but there are some of us who live in remote areas who will be in for it if this Obama brand of choice is instituted. We have a lot of bush villages that rely on the Catholic hospital here, as well as many people in the larger metro area. There’s a growing doctor’s organisation that aims to help cancer patients whose insurance maxed out or who don’t have insurance, an enormous children’s hospital and numerous clinics on campus.

He isn’t just making it available, he is (as I said) shoving it down our throats. Why should we and our children be punished and made to pay for other people’s abortions?

Frankly lets pass it, and watch the Catholic Church start to limit their services because of it. After all the loss of 1000 established hospitals/clinics should not effect health care much in the US.

/sarc

In small city like Portland Maine and its greater living area (pop 100k) We had 2 hospitals, Maine Med and Mercy Hospital.

Mercy was run by the Catholic Church and had a special ward called “the birthplace” for expectant mothers. Quite a few nieces and nephews were born there.

That said that if FOCA passes Mercy will close.

Chances are if your local hospital name sounds religious then it is run by the Catholic Church if FOCA passes then you can expect that hospital to shutdown.

Agree or disagree about abortion the Catholic Church will never be an accessory to murder no matter what the outcome.

Y-not on November 12, 2008 at 10:39 PM

It’s amazing how some forms a bigotry seem perfectly acceptable while there is zero tolerance for others.
Nothing new, It just seems that Ed is a lot more concerned about Obama being slightly insulted than the Pope, the Catholic Church or fellow Catholics here at HA being hatefully bashed and denigrated.
Kind of like Republican leaders who go out of the way to be nice to democrats while those same democrats are slandering fellow republicans, including their constituents and their country.

Closing hospitals would the catholic version of “going John Galt”, I guess.

pussum207 on November 12, 2008 at 6:01 PM

Nope. It’s “going Saint Peter,” actually.

Acts 5:29

Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Ed, Alah,

Are there any other religions or ethnic groups open season for bashing here at HotAir or only Catholics?

neuquenguy on November 12, 2008 at 8:42 PM

The Mormons take it on the chin pretty frequently, too. Actually, I’d say those attacks are even worse as they are usually accused of devil-worship.

I don’t bother engaging the Catholic bashers any longer as they are always based on false information which the posters could easily confirm if they bothered to go either the Vatican or U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops websites. If someone is too lazy to provide links to back up their claims, I don’t bother engaging them.

When I lived in the South I knew there was a lot of hatred and resentment towards the Catholic Church, but I never appreciated how deeply it ran and how ignorant these folks were until I started reading Hot Air. And the hatred directed at the Mormons has been a complete shock to me. Every Mormon I’ve ever known has been a model citizen — really great families and terrific colleagues at work.