Catholic bishops: Fight FOCA
posted at 10:30 am on November 12, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Catholic bishops issued a call for fierce opposition to the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) from their annual national conference. They offered olive branches to the incoming Barack Obama administration on a wide range of policies, but drew the line at rolling back every abortion restriction over the last 35 years. Saying that they could never cooperate with evil, the bishops called into question whether the Catholic Church would continue to provide health care if FOCA passes:
Meeting on the second day of their annual conference, the nation’s Catholic bishops urged an aggressive campaign to oppose the pro-abortion bill expected to be the centerpiece of the Barack Obama administration. They also mentioned concerns about Catholic hospitals being forced to do abortions. …
The statement included talking points saying that the Catholic bishops were willing to work with Obama on common issues like the economy, immigration and health care, but ready to strenuously oppose any efforts to expand abortions further.
“The church is also resolute in opposing evil,” and the bishops are “completely united and resolute in our teaching and defense of the unborn child from the moment of conception.”
The bishops also expressed concern about FOCA because it could overturn protections for Catholic hospitals that don’t want to do abortions.
Some of the bishops, during the discussion, went as far as saying the Catholic Church should be willing to close some health facilities rather them allow them to be subject to a mandate to do abortions from the Obama administration.
How serious are they? So serious that they won’t bother to sell the hospitals. They’ll shut them down and take the losses in order to prevent their use as abortion clinics. To do otherwise, the bishops stated, would be to cooperate in the evil of abortions.
What kind of impact would that have? The Catholic Church is one of the nation’s biggest health-care providers. In 2007, they ran 557 hospitals that serviced over 83 million patients. The church also had 417 clinics that saw over seven million patients. If they shut down almost a thousand hospitals and clinics nationwide, the US would not just lose a significant portion of available health care, but the poor and working-class families that received the health care would have fewer options.
Also, the Catholic Church runs this on a non-profit basis, spending vast sums of its money to ensure access for those unable to pay. That’s the kind of model that many on the Left believe should exclusively provide health care — and FOCA would spell the end of the major provider already in that model.
Unfortunately, the Catholic Church didn’t spell this out explicitly enough earlier in the year, when it may have made some difference with parishioners. At least they are speaking out on it now. We have to push hard for a filibuster on FOCA, and hope we have enough Republican votes to sustain it.
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I heard the Catholic Church decided not to give ACORN a million bucks this year.
Which raises the issue, why in the hell is part of my weekly donation ever going to ACORN.
It is enough to make you go Espicopal, but they are much worse.
Mr. Joe on November 12, 2008 at 10:33 AM
How can a religious institution be forced to perform acts considered sinful?
highhopes on November 12, 2008 at 10:35 AM
I’m not sure I get the Bishops on this. If abortion is such an evil act that it would force you to shut down your hospitals, then why bother working with someone who’s campaign centerpiece is the Mother of All Evil Acts? Wouldn’t this speak to the evil of the The One? How about ending all cooperation until he caves on FOCA?
The irony is, of course, that by forcing Catholic hospitals to perform abortions, he is limiting their Freedom of Choice in order to promote Freedom of Choice.
Nethicus on November 12, 2008 at 10:36 AM
I agree we need to fight the Party of Death.
the rep party has a golden opputunity to work with the Church on abortion, immigration, the economy, and healthcare.
the dems plans are anti church. We need to fight the party of death.
unseen on November 12, 2008 at 10:36 AM
How can a religious institution be forced to perform acts considered sinful?
highhopes on November 12, 2008 at 10:35 AM
The fight over gay couples and adoptions have caused the Church to stop offering adoptions in some places.
unseen on November 12, 2008 at 10:38 AM
Finally! Show some back-bone, Catholics.
This is how to win the hearts and minds of the people – with strong principles and the stregth of spirit to stick to them.
connertown on November 12, 2008 at 10:38 AM
The token guy in my RCIA is a late-twenty something school teacher(he teaches in a catholic school now) who was born RC but drifted away.
He was at the lovefest in Grant Park and made sure to mention it to me yesterday.
“Steve” grew up RC and yet saw no problem w/voting for a man that stood/stands in total opposite to the Churches teaching.
Why is it that I-a Jew turned protestant now joining the RC- didn’t buy the lies yet millions of RC’s like Steve did?!
annoyinglittletwerp on November 12, 2008 at 10:42 AM
I am an adamant Catholic and I am deeply disappointed at the Church’s lackadaisical effort to educate the Catholic parishioners on voting for a pro-life candidate as the number one issue.
Not many Catholics watch EWTN nor Raymond Arroyo for their news.
I am tired of these wimpy priests who are scared of offending. How are you going to teach, if not lecturing about evil?
The Church needs to have spine. The Pope does, yet many bishops and priests don’t.
jencab on November 12, 2008 at 10:44 AM
Alright, settle down on the Bishop bashing or you are all excommunicated.
Bishop on November 12, 2008 at 10:45 AM
The Catholic bishop in our area and in our Diocesan newspaper was practically shouting at the top of his lungs that life should be a huge issue in this election(but doing so within the boundaries of maintaining their tax exempt status). Unfortunately, Catholics have selective hearing and most are minimalists when it comes to practicing their faith. The bishops should be giving the priests directives to be more strong when speaking on the issue of abortion because most probably aren’t reading the weekly Diocesan paper.
sheesh on November 12, 2008 at 10:46 AM
The Catholic Church shut down its adoption services because Massachusetts forced them to serve gays. It’s been done and FOCA would do it again.
Theworldisnotenough on November 12, 2008 at 10:47 AM
Well, if we sign the Fairness Doctrine into law, you will not only limit political speech, but, you will also see a crack down on religious legal broadcasts (ACLJ, ADF) as well as other Christian culture broadcasts (Al Mohler) which would stifle religious conviction on subjects deemed political. That is the first step.
Then you remove conscience laws which allow doctors to opt out of artificial insemination for gay couples, and abortion will soon follow, if it isn’t on the table already. There is also another law (I think it’s ENDA?) where “equality in the workforce” means that a parachurch organization will not be able to reject an applicant for conflicts of church beliefs, like, homosexuality. Keep in mind that all of this will not include Islam, of course. There is a UN initiative in the works which will make it the law of the land to not defame Islam…this means churches cannot speak out against Islam. Our lives are OVER if that goes down…and we know how much BO loves his UN!
Mommypundit on November 12, 2008 at 10:47 AM
Oh, great. Now all the poor people who go to Catholic hospitals will not have health care. I wonder what Barry will do about that?
You just watch him declare an emergency and take over those hospitals.
The Monster on November 12, 2008 at 10:47 AM
How can a religious institution be forced to perform acts considered sinful?
State money. Since no hospital can compete with hospitals that take taxpayer money, if they opted out of performing abortions, they would be forced to give up federal funding under FOCA or the immediate lawsuits that PP would file under it.
Soon there will be no religious affiliations to social and health services whatsoever in this country, or else there will ones that make a mockery of religion, like “Christ” hospital in Chicago that put disabled newborns in a closet to die.
MargaretMN on November 12, 2008 at 10:49 AM
Why? A lot of supposedly Christian people that are against abortion and especially against late term abortion voted for Obama. Let them get slapped in the face for voting for the most pro-abortion President in our history. Then they can wonder why they did not know he was so very pro-abortion before they voted for him.
Theworldisnotenough on November 12, 2008 at 10:49 AM
Many people identify themselves as Catholics, but want the Catechism to be more like a buffet than a 5-course meal. Also, I know many Catholics who are committed to social justice and feel the Democrats can do more for the poor & needy, even if that means casting a vote for someone in favor of dropping abortion survivors into closets until they die.
Some folks are just upside-down in their priorities. Yes, I like social justice, but Democrats pay a lot of lip service to the idea. If they were truly involved in social justice, then the inner cities that have suffered for the past 50 years under Democrat control would be flourishing areas of hope and renewal. Democrats have brainwashed the poor into thinking the Democrat way is the only way, while all the while the poor remain poor.
Nethicus on November 12, 2008 at 10:50 AM
There could not have been a stronger statement before this election than there was from the Pennsylvania bishops. They practically threatened to excommunicate anyone who voted for Obama. Yet Obama won the Catholic vote in PA by a susbtantial margin. Do these guys really think Obama gives a crap now about what they say?
rockmom on November 12, 2008 at 10:50 AM
The Freedom of Choice Act has galvanized pro-lifers more than anything I’ve ever seen. I’m seeing online petitions being posted everywhere, Facebook groups and news releases like this one that have all sprung up since the election a week ago. If you want to oppose FOCA, there are now a myriad of ways that you can.
pookysgirl on November 12, 2008 at 10:51 AM
Oh goody. The Catholics close down hospitals and now we’ll have the perfect Health Crisis we’ve been missing as an impetus for nationalizing health care.
Looks like a win-win for the Catholics and Obama.
Now… onto the banks!
Joan of Argghh on November 12, 2008 at 10:52 AM
It’s not just hospitals and physicians, but pharmacists too. Here in California, there is no ethical, moral, or religious exemption which allows a pharmacist, acting on their beliefs, to refuse to dispense the “morning after” pill, which aborts a fertilized egg by preventing its implantation into the uterine wall. California SB 644, passed in 2005, requires a pharmacist to assist in the abortion process.
The corollary to SB 644 would be to require Catholic hospitals or doctors to refer people to Planned Parenthood if they come to them seeking an abortion.
This is where we are going if we don’t fight hard.
unclesmrgol on November 12, 2008 at 10:52 AM
Obviously, the Pope Benedict Effect here.
These Bishops, however, when left to their own devices under the previous and somewhat inattentive Pope as to many moral issues outside the Vatican and off the alter, have not been tending their sheep very astutely nor sincerely as to Christian, Catholic theology.
I’ve often wondered why, for example, the Bishops from Central America don’t teach morality in reference to the Bible and Church and istead seem to allow a sort of “community center” use of the Church and the name, “Catholic” — great place to appear but forget the morality, “we’re modern”.
Thus, a lot of Catholics in Central America and North America now are Liberals and rationalize morality to accommodate Liberal, humanistic desires.
I’m glad (very glad) these Bishops are now doing their job, so to speak, as regards abortion and the right to life, but, they have established a history in our country and elsewhere of literally going with amorality because they didn’t want to speak out or, worse, weren’t offended by it.
So, a lot of work to do, namely, to stop sending Catholic donations to all these Liberal causes that work against Christian morality and beliefs. For starters, anyway.
S on November 12, 2008 at 10:53 AM
I was skipping by EWTN last night and stopped when I saw it was the tail end of a Q & A at the conference and this is what they were talking about. Pretty well covered by what Ed wrote. I don’t know if I heard wrong but when one of the bishops was talking about shutting down I thought he said that 1/3 of the hospitals in the country are Catholic.
Jeff on November 12, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Oh yeah, I should add that I received SIX mailings and three phone calls from Planned Parenthood before the election. They went all-out to elect Obama and Democrats to Congress. I will be very interested in reading their final FEC report to see who contributed to them and where they spent the money.
I can’t wait to see how Bobby Casey votes on FOCA, and whether the Bishop of Scranton moves to excommunicate him if he votes for it. Same with Patrick Murphy who is my Congressman. If the Church does not start excommunicating politicians who vote for abortion, it is worthless.
rockmom on November 12, 2008 at 10:54 AM
It’s about time the Catholic Church made a stand. Yes, there are millions of “lapsed Catholics” out there. But in the end, the only choice is to keep the child or place the baby up for adoption. The “other alternative” is murder – period. Yes there are extraordinary circumstances where the mother’s life is truly in jeopardy. I can also see the extraordinary use of the day-after pill for rape and incest victims. Again, these are mitigating circumstances where God has chosen to keep a child or where a heinous crime is committed. Any group advocating abortion as a general “right-to-choose” is merely white-washing the legalized destruction of a life. Why don’t these people scream about capital punishment the way they zealously crave the option to snuff out a helpless infant? The “Party of Death” – couldn’t agree more!
HomeoftheBrave on November 12, 2008 at 10:57 AM
Well, not so in private Catholic hospitals. Which charge for their services, however (as well they should, just saying, they’re of higher quality because they continue to practice the fee-for-service method of not-for-profit hospitals) (also, they practice higher standards than others, so, you do get what you pay for).
Unfortunately, the issue is not yet tried and organized in Liberal states such as CA that a person is entitled to refuse to engage in practices in their job that compromise their religious beliefs. Thus, institutions that are deemed “public” (taxpayer money) are the most difficult for religious persons to work in where abortion and birth control methods are concerned: you can’t deny the service even if you’re engaging in offensive behaviors, is what I believe the going law is.
S on November 12, 2008 at 10:58 AM
Forcing a relgious group to go against its deepest principles, on penalty of law….
Yes, I understand exactly how that fits into a post-partisan administration.
NeighborhoodCatLady on November 12, 2008 at 10:59 AM
In the area where I used to live, in Alexandria, Virginia, there is a Catholic Church in a poor Hispanic neighborhood. It has had a banner up for years about choosing life. It’s one of the fastest growing churches in the diocese. Yet when I checked the election results in that precinct, it went 5-1 for Obama.
The Catholic Church has a really big problem here. Its flock are not practicing what the priests and bishops are preaching.
rockmom on November 12, 2008 at 10:59 AM
While the Catholic Church denounces Socialism, if you look at their promotion of social justice, you realize that their definition of Socialism is meaningless. Their seeking of “Social Justice” is usually focusing toward government redistribution of wealth.
Tim Burton on November 12, 2008 at 11:01 AM
That is because the Catholic Church has totally ignored the requirement of church discipline.
If they got their flock in line, we would see Abortion become a State issue, limited and rare.
Tim Burton on November 12, 2008 at 11:02 AM
Throughout this election season, the associate priest at my parish has sought to DEMORALIZE pro-lifers in every way he could.
Large and vocal elements within the Church, some funded by George Soros, are Democrats first and everything else second.
How do you suppose that “racism” was listed right up there with abortion as an “intrinsic evil” in the Catholic Bishops’ election-year document? I asked the bishop of my diocese if he knew of any candidate for any office who promotes the passage and enforcement of laws that support racism. Needless to say, he couldn’t come up with any.
jay12 on November 12, 2008 at 11:05 AM
Olivebranch? Donations to ACORN? Does the Church secretly want abortion to be without restrictions?
Blake on November 12, 2008 at 11:05 AM
A conniving, and profane group (my take on them, I realize it’s a strong one, but that’s my take on them) called “Catholics United” set about making a street-level paperwork campaign for Obama, lying to people that Obama was “pro-life” and denying his wretched, disgusting voting and public record on behalf of his defense of Roe v. Wade and infanticide.
I’ve had a few interactions (I’m Catholic) with a few of these Liberals masquereding as Catholics, and they all like to say they’re devout and they’re “very Catholic” and whatnot, but, discussing the issue of life as also other New Age occultisms and humanisms with them, they’re clearly psychologically not Christian nor devout as Christians (if they WERE, they would not be engaged in promoting the issues and candidate they are and have been).
Sanctimonious, perhaps, is the right word. Certainly guilty of misleading the most vulnerable, an deed God does not take nor forgive lightly, if at all.
S on November 12, 2008 at 11:05 AM
I know rockmom, I think I saw some voting stats just yesterday and I think it said Catholics voted for Barry 54% or 56%. I’m in Scranton Diocese and the Bishop was on local TV news making strong statements about the voting before the election. I hope he keeps it up.
Jeff on November 12, 2008 at 11:06 AM
Damn Catholics gave 7.3 million dollars to ACORN over the past 10 years. They have given renegade Priests and so called Catholic Politicians free reign to spread their pro-choice agendas, while at the same time kissing their collective pro abortion arses – think Kennedy, Daley, Pelosi, Biden and the list goes on. They also gave millions to the Saul Alinsky Area Industrial Foundation – another liberal weed patch. All of these liberal fools have helped bring FOCA to fruition. I want my Church back!!!!
bloggless on November 12, 2008 at 11:06 AM
According to GovTrack, the FOCA was introduced by Barbara Boxer in April of 2007 and no one’s touched it since. Does this thing have a path to law that doesn’t go through Committee/House/Senate? I’m all for shutting it down early and often and am extremely happy to see the Catholic Bishops finally taking a stand. I’m just trying to figure out why 0 talked about it like all it needed was his signature.
Quisp on November 12, 2008 at 11:07 AM
Amen, Fathers. I stand with you.
Capital Mess on November 12, 2008 at 11:07 AM
That’s it, right there, as in, that, too. Liberalism is an occult religion.
S on November 12, 2008 at 11:07 AM
What’s to keep the government from seizing the Catholic hospitals and clinics a-la the Kelo decision?
zmdavid on November 12, 2008 at 11:08 AM
The social justice catholics are fringe.
Our Church is centered in Rome, and I can promise you that our Catholic Social Teaching is very explicitly defined, and it absolutely denounces Marxist and materialist political systems, and it absolutely denounces abortion as intrinsically evil.
The problem is, unlike Obama, we Catholics can’t form a Civilian National Security Force and go around knocking on doors thumping these people back in line.
We have to rely on the conscience of the individual.
That’s why I teach Catechism. That’s why all faithful, observant Catholics should teach Catechism.
jeff_from_mpls on November 12, 2008 at 11:08 AM
Catholics who voted for Obama voted for FOCA. This is what they wanted. This is what they asked for. Right?
Sekhmet on November 12, 2008 at 11:08 AM
You ask: How serious are they?
The example given is the shutting down of hospitals. But to me this is still second best. Until the answer to the question is “excommunication” they are not really being serious. If Biden and Pelosi find that they are expelled from the catholic Church…a voluntary organization after all…it will be a powerful statement. these two..and many like them…have trafficked in their supposed “Catholicism” to dupe contituents into thinking they are voting for Catholics.
Call ‘em on it.
One of the things that is clear is that a lot of this legislation is intentionally anti-Catholic because it is designed to force Catholics, and Catholic organizations to act in direct contradiction of their faith.
If gays want a wedding party it MUST be at the KOC hall..the Kiwanis/Lions/etc hall next door won’t do. It MUST be the Catholic. Catholic doctors MUST do abortions, even if other, non-Catholics are prepared to do it. The same for Catholic hospitals.
Unless the Catholic Church appreciates the tactics that are being directed against it, and its members, it will be fighting with one hand tied behind its back.
So…fine. Close the hospital. But deny Pelosi the sacraments as well because she, though her efforts, has killed far more babies than any one hospital could on its own.
Blaise on November 12, 2008 at 11:08 AM
A part of me almost wishes Obama would step up the confrontation. As we found in the Concentration Campls of World War II, there’s nothing like Catholic Martyrs to shake things up.
Look up Maximilian Kolbe, Edith Stein, Father Alfred Delp.
They gave their lives as a witness against the evil of the times. They are remembered, and their gutless, filthy executioners are dust.
jeff_from_mpls on November 12, 2008 at 11:11 AM
There are Catholics who go to the church for reasons of routine, Catholics who go as a social event (like the Swimmer and his family), and those who actively believe in church teaching. The problem is that the church leadership has refused to take a solid stand on their teachings for ages, and if there’s no punitive response to the church’s number one issue, no one is going to take their call to oppose abortion seriously.
That’s why when our bishop in Scranton *drink* made the threat to deny communion to people who supported Obama, I said he damned well better carry through if he’s going to make the threat. They’ve been making empty threats about some sort of punitive action against actively pro-choice Catholics for so long that if they don’t start making a strong stand now, they’re done as a church because they mean nothing and stand for nothing.
doubleplusundead on November 12, 2008 at 11:11 AM
We need a grassroots movement in the Church. No money until they clean it up. I mean it. Put a note in their envelopes and tell them that you can not morally donate to an organization that supports ACORN and IAF. Our Church has been destroyed by the “seamless garment” crowd.
bloggless on November 12, 2008 at 11:12 AM
It is time for the Catholic Church to take out the trash.
bloggless on November 12, 2008 at 11:14 AM
I still want to know how and why these groups get taxpayer money, Planned Parenthood, ACORN etc. Grass roots uproar against this might help. Lily-livered pols won’t do it.
Jeff on November 12, 2008 at 11:14 AM
anybody see this coming?
Paulson said the government’s $700 billion financial rescue package will not purchase troubled assets from banks as originally planned. He said that plan would have taken too much time, and that the Treasury instead will rely on buying stakes in banks and encouraging them to resume more normal lending.
Let’s give one man a blank check for $700b. what could go wrong?
unseen on November 12, 2008 at 11:15 AM
I agree with what several have writte here, that excommunication should be the action the Church takes for people who are advocating and involved in violation of the faith while also attempting to maintain themselves as examples or even practitioners of the faith.
If we are not going to excommunicate profanities as these, what, indeed, is excommunication for and about? It’s an absolute giving up point on some souls, I realize, but some souls don’t want to denounce their sin, and worse, campaign and promote sin as acceptable if even holy.
It’s profane! I have no other word for it, calling that which is holy not holy and that which is profane, holy. Profane!
I was very glad and proud to hear Pope Benedict taking a public stand as he has on the Church’s positions on these issues (against Marxism, deems abortion an intrinsic evil), and that these Bishops are FINALLY doing likewise.
Now needs some action to support the positions. Like not giving Nancy Pelosi any more private talks to worm her way out of misrepresenting the Church (same with Biden, and Kerry and…), but taking steps to confront them heretofore, and, like stopping all money flow to organizations who are involved in promoting similar and shared shady goals.
I know I’m peeved that the local Diocese sends so much money that essentially incentivizes illegal immigration AND other objectionable issues, same as ACORN and La Raza. The Church is too eager to mingle the social acceptance factor with the religious, has to stop.
S on November 12, 2008 at 11:16 AM
It’s not just catholics.
I’m protestant and I was just sickened by the folks deceived by the Matthew 25 initiative and folks like Donald Miller (”Blue Like Jazz”) who was fooled and fooled his own followers. See this post:
http://www.boundlessline.org/2008/11/obamas-step-bac.html
I was ridiculed by my “brothers and sisters” who wanted nothing more than to forget the abortion issue and rely on Obama’s words…when I was only relying on his words to Planned Parenthood ON TOP OF HIS RECORD to provide me with adequate info on his abortion fervor.
And, as great as it might be to shove this whole thing in the face of these sheep who swallowed BO’s crap, we cannot afford to waste any time if we really believe babies lives are hanging in the balance. We either believe it is life (proven by science) or we do not.
Mommypundit on November 12, 2008 at 11:16 AM
I wonder how all those Catholic hispanics who voted for Omarxa are feeling right about now?
Second look at Palin would have been warranted.
Bishop on November 12, 2008 at 11:16 AM
Let me add, we ought to SUPPORT and APPROVE when Catholic Organizations do the right thing.
The Catholic Campaign for Human Development this year finally cut off funding for ACORN, after finding out about “financial irregularities.”
We might be a clumsy Church, but we eventually figure out when we’ve been pwned. It is said that when Napolean threatened to ransack the Vatican and destroy the Church, a cardinal quipped “we’ve been trying to do that for 1800 years and we’ve failed.”
Let the CCHD know you appreciate their action, and ask them to make it permanent.
jeff_from_mpls on November 12, 2008 at 11:20 AM
So glad to see the church take a stand on this issue. I live in a city comprised of a catholic majority, but yet it always votes blue. In fact the church of our children’s school is the same that allowed Kerry to receive communion in ‘04 during a campaign stop. I just don’t get it.
Goody2Shoes on November 12, 2008 at 11:21 AM
The Church has given acorn 7.3 mil over the past ten years. This year they witheld their donation not because of morality differences with acorn, but rather because their is over a million dollars that has been embezzled somewhere and the brother of the founder has resigned. The Church still doesn’t get it.
bloggless on November 12, 2008 at 11:22 AM
They’ve coasted a while now on an excuse of being “Catholic” and calling themselves “socially Conservative” yet look how easily they threw the positions of the Catholic Church aside in their rush to grab amnesty (for themselves and others).
It’s a sad statement on the hypocrisy of many, and if not hypocrisy, then utter deviousness using the Catholic Church for cover.
S on November 12, 2008 at 11:22 AM
We have to be willing to part with the church, who ever that might be, if it violates scripture. I understand that Catholics have the authority of the pope and believe him to be infallible…what happens if the Pope ISN’T? Not saying this one is, but, lets say one one day says, “You know? Scrap all that abortion stuff.” What would you do?
Mommypundit on November 12, 2008 at 11:22 AM
A Priest in my parish gave a great homily about being Catholic and being Pro-Life. After Mass, someone went back to his office and started yelling at him for telling her how to vote. He shrugged, smiled and told her that being Catholic means being Pro-Life. She stormed out of the office really upset. I chuckled…go Father John.
Muletrain on November 12, 2008 at 11:24 AM
Goody2Shoes on November 12, 2008 at 11:21 AM
Evil has ways of getting its way. The Church has refused to fight evil for so long that it has metasized the Church. The pedophiles, the mob, pro-death politicians etc. All evil must be confronted. working with evil to prevent a bigger evil just gets you more evil in the long run.
unseen on November 12, 2008 at 11:24 AM
They are still celebrating Obama’s election. That’s how they feel.
Nothing has changed. Church teaching is irrelevant. Just drop a dime in the poor box, “set a spell”, and admire the statues and stained-glass windows.
jay12 on November 12, 2008 at 11:24 AM
The Catholic hospitals unfortunately may choose just to shut down their obstetrical services and leave the rest of their services intact. Obstetrics is a money loser (because of high malpractice costs) for hospitals but it brings the primary care patients in for other kinds of healthcare. Loss of OB care is bad news for communities, indigent and affluent.
gracie on November 12, 2008 at 11:25 AM
Isn’t that due to the Paulists?
In Los Angeles, CARDINAL Mahoney is Marxist and look, he’s still a Cardinal.
S on November 12, 2008 at 11:25 AM
We don’t believe the Pope is an infallible human being. If he says abortion is okay, he’s wrong.
The doctrine of infallability refers to the infallibility of his STATEMENTS, and only when he makes them under very specific conditions.
I believe Pythogoreas 69th theorem (the famous one) is absolutely true. Does that make me a mindless sheep, or on the contrary, a thoughtful fellow?
Careful of the knee-jerk reaction against infallibility, much of the criticism reflects an ingrained hostility to the possibility of absolute truth that is rampant in America. You give up a lot when you give up the very concept of absolute, necessary truth.
Food for thought.
jeff_from_mpls on November 12, 2008 at 11:27 AM
It won’t be Catholic health care. Protestant health institutions will be affected as well.
Religious schools, Catholic and Protestant, will be next. I guarantee it.
If the Catholic Church takes a stand and does a nationwide “shut-down” of all its hospitals for a week, I think a lot of people will get the message… but not all.
This will mark the beginning of officially-sanctioned Christian persecution in the Land of the First Amendment.
newton on November 12, 2008 at 11:28 AM
Maybe I’m not getting it here. I read this post and thought, “3 cheers for the bishops!” Yet all I see are kinda snarky criticisms.
IMHO, this is exactly the kind of line in the sand that needs to be drawn. And, oh by the way, everyone who opposes FOCA had better start thinking about how to communicate some of the scarier elements of this to your pro-abortion buddies. They will drink the liberal Kool-aid and think this only reinforces a “woman’s right to
choosekill.” We need to reinforce that defeating FOCA will (sadly)NOT make abortions less prevalent, but passing it WILL expand it, disallow parental notification and use their tax dollars to fund repeated abortions as a means of birth control for uneducated women who indiscriminately procreate…not just for the poor little girl who was taken advantage of one time in the back of aBuickmotorcade and who’s parents don’t want her to be punished with a child.Chewy the Lab on November 12, 2008 at 11:28 AM
It’s about time we see the Catholic Church take a stand.
Joe and Nancy, time for you two to be excommunicated.
leetpriest on November 12, 2008 at 11:29 AM
I’d pray for him, a lot, and I’d pray for ongoing guidance for myself and those under the Pope’s influence. It’s important to remember that God’s the authority.
S on November 12, 2008 at 11:29 AM
Yet again this is another reason why the Roman Catholics should come back to the True Faith of the Orthodox Church.
Orthodox Christians voted republican this year 100% to 0%.
It is a sad fact that 50% or more of the Roman Catholics voted for the pro abortion candidate this year(effectively ending the pro life movement in the United States).
SaintOlaf on November 12, 2008 at 11:30 AM
You know, I actually sort of “get” the Protestant reformation, the idea of attacking the Church for its failure to live up to its mission.
But I can’t for the life of me understand our being attacked because we make it harder for women to murder their infants.
How low we’ve sunk.
jeff_from_mpls on November 12, 2008 at 11:31 AM
How many electoral votes does the pope have?
Right_of_Attila on November 12, 2008 at 11:31 AM
This is where the real Christian churches step up. There is already a shady area of abortion involvement at some hospitals where the secular staff thinks it’s just fine.
Infanticide is a true biblical measure of evil, and all Christian churches need to make this same stand. The Episcopal church actually has an abortion support office staffed by radical, ordained women.
Hening on November 12, 2008 at 11:32 AM
Inspiration and encouragement:
Photos of Mammalian Neuron and a Galaxy, nearly visually identical.
S on November 12, 2008 at 11:32 AM
I hope the Catholic Church is finally serious about oppposing abortion. I’ve long though they have the power to bring about an end to legal abortion in the U.S. if they would only be willing to take the hits that go along with doing the right thing. If they had told all parishners that opposing abortion (and candidates that support abortion) was their primary moral obligation, how many Hispanics (and other Catholics) would have shifed their vote from Obama to McCain? It may not have been enough by itself to have overturned the election results, but it would have been a lot closer and some more Republican Senators and Representatives would now be in Congress.
davenp35 on November 12, 2008 at 11:33 AM
I’ve got a better one for you. My parish distributed a copy of a parish-school project featuring a photograph of Obama under the caption “The White House” to each and every parishoner who attended any of the Sunday Masses one weekend earlier this year. The school project was entitled “The Places Where We Find Jesus”.
Gulp.
When I complained, the associate priest’s incredulous comments seemed to suggest that my complaint may be due to the fact that Obama is black.
Double Gulp.
jay12 on November 12, 2008 at 11:34 AM
That’s truly horrible. Did you try to get any more intelligence from that Priest? Truly a wretched thing for him to say, as also, the handout to be done. Horrible.
S on November 12, 2008 at 11:36 AM
How long will we allow rhetorical questions in this thread?
jeff_from_mpls on November 12, 2008 at 11:37 AM
I’m just wondering how the Hispanic Catholics turning out in droves to vote for the Obamesatan are going to feel about it when they learn that their new Messiah is taking a huge, smelly dump all over the Church.
Misha I on November 12, 2008 at 11:38 AM
The Obama Orthodoxy began hidden behind shrouds of Euphoria. When they came for the ProLife Hospitals, too few rose to oppose. . . . And years later, when they came for me, there was no one left to oppose.
Mark30339 on November 12, 2008 at 11:39 AM
Absolutely nothing. But these are nonprofits, and they don’t generally turn a profit ;-). They rely on donations from either private donors or the diocese to cover shortfalls.
The Feds or States could take them over, but they would have to compensate the organizations owning the hospitals, and then we citizens would be responsible for the shortfall. Given the budget problems rampant in the US, I’d say requiring Catholics to give abortions would be the path of least resistance for the upcoming Obama Administration.
To get an example of how government run hospitals fare, look at the Drew-King scandal here in LA, and compare that hospital to any of the religious ones here — Cedars-Sinai, White Memorial, St. Vincent….
In an era where emergency rooms are closing due to the illegal immigrant crush, St Vincent keeps its open, at a considerable cost to us Catholics. Note that Northridge, the hospital featered in the article as having to close its emergency room due to over $1M/month losses, is also a Catholic hospital.
unclesmrgol on November 12, 2008 at 11:39 AM
The following photo of Cardinal Egan and Obama laughing it up at the Alfred E. Smith dinner has me perplexed. What am I missing? How do you stand on principle re. FOCA and rub elbows with BHO. Does the end justify the means?
BTW I am Catholic. This is enough for me to divert my “Cardinals Appeal” donation elsewhere.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/10/16/2008-10-16_where_you_sit_says_a_lot_about_where_you.html
diogenes on November 12, 2008 at 11:39 AM
He’s a hopeless case, clearly a lifelong partisan Democrat who is in denial.
I spoke to the diocese about it again yesterday. What can we expect them to do, given the priest shortage and all?
I’m looking for a new parish to call home. I hope I find one.
jay12 on November 12, 2008 at 11:40 AM
Another Catholic bigot raises his/her ugly voice.
unclesmrgol on November 12, 2008 at 11:41 AM
Yes, that was truly distressing to pro-life Catholics. I guess the thinking is that Obama may be persuaded to come around? You and I know that won’t happen; we’ll just get more death of innocents by the tens of millions.
jay12 on November 12, 2008 at 11:45 AM
S on November 12, 2008 at 11:25 AM
The Wikipedia article says nothing about ‘marxism’ but it does say he befriended a child molester.
gh on November 12, 2008 at 11:45 AM
That begs the obvious: it appears that THEY took that action themselves by voting for Obama.
S on November 12, 2008 at 11:46 AM
And you rely on Wikipedia for truth and reality?
Mahoney is a Marxist. Do more reading outside the Liberal bubble that is Wikipedia.
S on November 12, 2008 at 11:47 AM
but Doug Kmiec (sp?) said Obama would decrease abortions, much more so than McCain/Palin. Surely he can’t be a fucking idiot?
BuzzCrutcher on November 12, 2008 at 11:48 AM
Well, actually, no, you’re not correct about that. “Not-for-profit” is the correct term, which means, “fee-for-service.”
It does not mean they don’t make a profit, it just means they require payment for service, and, are service oriented with religious characterisations in their structure and approach to healthcare.
It’s not “non-profit” in Catholic healthcare, it’s “not-for-profit.” Big difference.
S on November 12, 2008 at 11:50 AM
The maddening and sad thing about this entire subject is that liberals know what abortion is, they know what abortion does, and they don’t care.
AubieJon on November 12, 2008 at 11:50 AM
I told my Parish priests that they would not be getting my “time nor treasure” until they started speaking up against pro-abortionists. I told them that they must not compromise no matter who they insult.
The only way we will hear this from the pulpit is if we prod them. The priests need our support and they need it voiced out loud so they know they aren’t alone in this. They are human and have fears and weaknesses and need support just like anyone else.
Vince on November 12, 2008 at 11:50 AM
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I am still shaking my head.
diogenes on November 12, 2008 at 11:52 AM
Me, too, as in, I also wish for you you find yourself a new parish home soon. You sound like a very decent and devout Catholic.
My best to you, I enjoyed your comments here.
S on November 12, 2008 at 11:53 AM
Has Cardinal Law weighed in on this evil yet?
mankai on November 12, 2008 at 11:56 AM
It’s a tempting conclusion, but I’m not ready to make the jump. Voters go into the voting booth with the information they have, and we’re all familiar with the complete information blackout perpetrated by the Obamedia.
I’m very much reluctant to say that Obavoters knew what they were getting into when they voted, at least as far as a huge number of them are concerned. Unlike me, they’re not political junkies roaming the web to find the real info.
And I’m still interested in seeing their reactions when they realize that they’ve been lied to, now that the rubber meets the road and ObaMarx can’t just vote “present” anymore.
Misha I on November 12, 2008 at 11:57 AM
Tuff talk without any tuff action is pretty meaningless.
What they should do is excommunicate any and all politicians (from the right as well as the left) that are for abortion.
That would send a message that they aren’t just wind blowers.
The fact of the matter is this:
What the left is boils down to this: A lowering of standards.
We see it in everything that they touch.
–EDUCATION.
–THE BANKING CREDIT MESS.
–MEDIA
to name a few.
And as the catholic church shows more and more inching towards the left, we see the sex scandals and allowances for abortion and excuses for tyrants and dictators.
I only hope that the young bishops coming up in the church are more than just tuff talk.
* I grew up in the catholic church, but havent been one for MANY MANY YEARS, due to the fact that I believe what I say and say what I believe.
In other words…I now go to a baptist church . >:)
Handel on November 12, 2008 at 11:57 AM
As I said in an earlier post. The Catholic Church is the organized labor of religion. Somehow you seem smuggly giddy about the concept of the Catholic Church denying health care to people. This is what majority Catholic areas can expect. . . intimidation and extortion when they don’t get what they want. . .
or in this particular case. . . when they do get what they want as Catholics voted for Obama 55% to 45%. Here’s an idea Ed. You were the one kicking people out of the Church for supporting Obama. Why don’t you just kick out the 55% that voted for Obama and go from there?
I don’t understand your glee at this move by ‘Catholic bishops’. I do understand that you want a ‘Catholic Country’ Ed, but I am EXTREMELY GLAD that we don’t have one. Our politicians should NOT take orders from the Catholic Church. . . no matter if I agree with their position or not.
The Catholic attitude problem is going to have to be dealt with here in America eventually as evidenced by Ed’s posts.
Go ahead, shut down all of your hospitals. . . it’s the Christian thing to do. Of course in the South, most of the hospitals are Presbyterian or Baptist or even Jewish. We don’t have many Catholic hospitals. So go ahead and close down. You’ll only impact the areas of the country I don’t frequent.
ThackerAgency on November 12, 2008 at 12:02 PM
I’m in one you might like in SE Pa. About as far out as you can get in the Phila. Archdiocese.
We got a dynomite homily from our resident on Respect Life Sunday.
Reach me via posts by bob at 4rwws.blogspot.com for more info.
either orr on November 12, 2008 at 12:04 PM
My entire Catholic family voted for President-Elect Hope-and-Infanticide, and one even sent me an email rubbing it in. Some of us are so very far astray.
Kensington on November 12, 2008 at 12:04 PM
The point is this — churches are not democracies on matters of faith. You can’t pick and choose the tenets you will follow. You play by the rules or go someplace else. There are too many cafeteria Catholics (including, I suspect, some well up in the church hierarchy).
That said, I’d much rather see the Church opt for civil disobedience on this one, should the worst case scenario come to pass.
either orr on November 12, 2008 at 12:07 PM
From the Pope: “A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself or herself for Holy Communion, if he or she were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia. When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favor of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.”
mankai on November 12, 2008 at 12:08 PM
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