Hot Air Mobile
Home The Vault Gear About
Hot Air -- get your fill


The onset of ODS

posted at 10:50 am on November 11, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
Share on Facebook | regular view

For the past seven-plus years, the Left has suffered from Bush Derangement Syndrome.  Well, actually, the rest of us have suffered from their embrace of BDS, which one might think would inoculate us from any related maladies.  As Jake Tapper notes, though, the onset of Obama Derangement Syndrome might prove that wrong:

We all remember “Bush derangement syndrome” — defined by Charles Krauthammer as “the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency — nay — the very existence of George W. Bush.”

We already need a name for the reverse disorder.

Rep. Paul Broun, R-Georgia, recently said that he fears President-elect Obama may create a security force akin to the Gestapo to impose a Marxist dictatorship.

“It may sound a bit crazy and off base, but the thing is, he’s the one who proposed this national security force,” Broun told The Associated Press. “I’m just trying to bring attention to the fact that we may – may not, I hope not – but we may have a problem with that type of philosophy of radical socialism or Marxism.”

Broun refers to this portion of a speech Obama gave in July in Colorado. The media dropped two sentences from its reporting of the speech, which set off critics when World Net Daily reported it:

We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.

At the time, Obama’s supporters claimed that he meant the Peace Corps and other volunteer organizations. That seems a stretch, but so does Broun’s interpretation of it. As I wrote at the time, the nation already has a number of non-military national security forces, including the FBI, ICE, Border Patrol, and so on. If we want to fund that better, many conservatives would agree, but not funding it to the same extent as the military. In the context of Obama’s remarks above, though, he fairly clearly meant to at least include a volunteer force in outreach within and outside the US as some sort of Department of Peace-like indirect boost to national security.

Nothing in that speech hints at a Gestapo-like organization at all. I’d agree that we have to remain vigilant at all times to ensure that the government doesn’t try to impose such a regime upon us, but this is an extremely thin reed to grasp for such a conclusion. Although I supported a freer hand at the NSA in monitoring communications with one end in the US for possible terrorist activities given the dangers we face in this era, it’s far easier for the government to turn that into a Gestapo than what Obama proposed.  That’s why I understood the Left’s opposition to it (as well as a small minority of conservatives) and thought reasonable safeguards against potential abuse were appropriate, as the eventual compromise in Congress provided.

If we plan to offer a rational alternative to the coming debacle of the next two years, then we’d better stick to facts and eschew hyperbole.  We need to oppose the reality of the radical agenda proposed by Obama and the Democratic majorities in Congress, not fantasies spun out of context-free snippets of speeches.  The more critics invoke Hitler and Stalin instead of Jimmy Carter and Lyndon Johnson, the better the reality of Obama, Reid, and Pelosi will seem in 2010.

Addendum: Also, can we please get rid of this canard?

“We can’t be lulled into complacency,” Broun said. “You have to remember that Adolf Hitler was elected in a democratic Germany. I’m not comparing him to Adolf Hitler. What I’m saying is there is the potential.”

No, he wasn’t.  Hitler was never elected to any office.  He became Chancellor because of a deal struck between political factions warring with each other in the twilight of Weimar Germany, appointed to the position by President von Hindenburg.  The Nazis never even won a majority in the Reichstag, and in fact lost seats in the last free elections before Hitler became Chancellor.  Unlike in most parliamentary systems, the executive in Germany did not need to hold a seat in the Reichstag.  The Weimar system never had the support of the German people, and the reversion to strong-man rule was almost inevitable.

And unlike Germany, we will get free elections in two years.  If we want to win majorities back, we’ll need to stop invoking Nazis at every turn.

Update: I’m going to add this here rather than reposting it every 50 comments or so in the thread.  Nothing in this post says we should refrain from criticizing Obama.  I’m just arguing that we have to stick to the facts rather than screeching historically inaccurate references to Nazis every time we disagree with Obama.  No one will have any credibility left if we all give into the impulse to act like the Kos Kiddies for the next two years.


Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 ... 6 7 8 9

“He is a slimy Chicago politician, but the sliminess consisted mainly of cozying up to unsavory characters in exchange for campaign support. It is his “go-along-to-get-along” attitude vis-a-vis Bill Ayers & co. that everyone has been decrying, but that same attitude will probably lead him to govern from the center. Obama is not a man of evil principles; he is a man of no principles, and he will pragmatically side with the majority of the electorate whenever he can.”

Well, that might all be true if he had grown up in a Marxist country. However, he did not. He sought out all this. (And was brought up in a family sympathetic to it.)

He wasn’t just dumped into a radical world, then went along to get along. He believes it all, and surrounded himself with all of it, all of his life. Purposely.

In view of his entire history and beliefs, if he tries to govern (or should I say “rule”?) from the center, I’ll eat my hat.

Alana on November 11, 2008 at 9:16 PM

As for what the party needs, last I checked, McCain pandered only the moderates, and not to the conservatives this election cycle. So tell me how that worked out for us, slick.

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 9:14 PM

He picked Palin because he wasn’t sure he could rely on the conservatives then lost the moderates and independents as a result. Are you that emotionally deprived that you need McCain to give you a Dr Phil moment?

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:16 PM

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:13 PM

My point is, we show them the light or the door…moderates included…Where do you really stand?

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 9:20 PM

We “beat them” by getting more of the Hispanics, blacks, Asians and others into the party. That will only be done by appealing to their mind and common sense. It will also require conservatives to actually welcome those who may only be 70% in agreement without dismissing them with names and scorn. Kind of like Reagan did….

Actually, unfortunately, most voters don’t listen to reason or common sense. Their prior attitudes and motivated cognitions play a much, much larger role. Should conservatives use well reasoned arguments in defense of what we believe? Yes, but we also need pleas to their emotions, we need to shame those that have the wrong ideas, we need a LOT of things that go beyond making logical arguments. We can either do what actually works, or we can do what you think works.

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 9:20 PM

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:16 PM

Get real. He lost because he was not a good candidate and the economy only got worse due to the banking scandal.

Jamson64 on November 11, 2008 at 9:20 PM

My point is, we show them the light or the door…moderates included…Where do you really stand?

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 9:20 PM

And my point is that Reagan said that someone that agrees with you 70% of the time is not your enemy. Why is that not wise advice anymore. Show them the door as the conservatives drop through the trap door of permanent minority status.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:23 PM

Why would I want to “give him a chance?”

When everything that has been on his website as his plans is something I’m fervently against?

I’m supposed to give him a chance to enact all that? I don’t think so.

Alana on November 11, 2008 at 9:23 PM

Hey Bradky, Don’t you realize that compromise got us where we are? 94 was a beautiful year.

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 9:24 PM

We can either do what actually works, or we can do what you think works.

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 9:20 PM

Considering the conservatives haven’t even tried reaching out it is a little premature to talk about shaming someone who disagrees with you. None of us are perfect nor 100% right in all convictions.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:25 PM

Why would I want to “give him a chance?”

When everything that has been on his website as his plans is something I’m fervently against?

I’m supposed to give him a chance to enact all that? I don’t think so.

Alana on November 11, 2008 at 9:23 PM

Bingo!

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 9:25 PM

Considering the conservatives haven’t even tried reaching out

What was McCain?

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 9:26 PM

He picked Palin because he wasn’t sure he could rely on the conservatives then lost the moderates and independents as a result. Are you that emotionally deprived that you need McCain to give you a Dr Phil moment?

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:16 PM

Are you even capable of making a response without sounding like a snide, pompous, arrogant, condescending, narcissistic clone of Gore Vidal?

He picked Palin because for the last 18 months leading up to September 08 he had been telling conservatives to shut up and vote for him, regardless of his numerous liberal positions on everything from amnesty to taxes to global warming. He chose her because he realized, with two months to go, that we had no interest in giving him our support. He decided on a quick fix, added her to the ticket, and promptly told her to read from the script and shut up. In the last days before the election, she started speaking for herself, and she’s been paying for it ever since. Not surprising coming from a guy who violated the first amendment through CFR.

He tried a quick fix, and muzzled her so that she wouldn’t say anything that the conservatives wanted to hear. He was totally inept at getting the conservative vote, and in the process, made her look like a trophy candidate. Had she been able to speak, I guarantee you, moderates would have been won over. We were running against a leftist extremist. With no passion in our own campaign, how did you expect to win voters?

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 9:26 PM

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:23 PM

But Regan also said, I believe, we’ll turn them the rest of the way, or something very close.

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 9:27 PM

In criticising Obama’s plan I think there are some key points to bear in mind. First- this was the first and only time he mentioned a $500 billion dollar plan for his Presidency. Odd, no?

Second, he specifically calls it a “national security” force. Nothing about peace, helping old ladies to cross the road or anything of the sort. He also frames the concept in relation to the military- arguing that he wants this in addition to the military.

Third, and from my point of view, the most important one. He says that it must be as STRONG and as POWERFUL as the military. Surely that directly contradicts Ed’s assertion “he fairly clearly meant to at least include a volunteer force in outreach within and outside the US as some sort of Department of Peace-like indirect boost to national security.

A dept of peace-style group which is not only funded to the same tune as the military but is as STRONG and POWERFUL as them? All, Obama says very clearly, to be used for national security- not for general peaceful purposes.

ODS is one thing- examining what Obama actually said in relation to this proposed force is not being deranged or paranoid. It’s discussing something he himself proposed on the campaign trail.

Furthermore, when this originally broke some months ago, Ed Morrissey had this to say-

The phrasing of it — a “civilian national security force” — sounds much more like a quasi-military organization operating within the US under the control of the federal government.

Obama needs to clarify what he means by “civilian national security force”, and how it would be funded. After all, we have a panoply of federal security agencies already: FBI, BATF, DEA, and more, plus the National Guard on the state level. Where would Obama get the money to fund it at the same level as the Pentagon? What would its mission be, and where would it get its authority? What would be the lines of jurisdiction?

Now, excuse me, but these are precisely the same questions being asked by people that Ed and others on the Right are now calling ODS-sufferers.

Back then it was okay to question a controversial statement (vanished from his speeches now like the disappeared controversial statements on his Change.org website) but now if you worry about what a man actually elected is going to do about it- you’re labelled a fringe kook with no credibility and insulted with being just like those with BDS.

So tell me, Ed- why was it okay for you to ask about this statement during the summer but if you worry about it now- and ask essentially the same questions about it- you throw out the label of ODS?

Jay Mac on November 11, 2008 at 9:27 PM

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 9:26 PM

You keep talking presidential politics. What I am talking about is the party getting its act together in rebuilding what they have on the ground and reaching out in communities across the country to build up the party membership and make some inroads into the moderate democrat ranks.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:30 PM

I think the more appropriate ODS is Obama Defense Syndrome which has taken over too many conservatives at the expense of progress for conservatism.

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 9:31 PM

Bingo!

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 9:25 PM

DUH….AGREED!!(sorry couldn’t help myself). Bradky are you listening…jeeez

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 9:31 PM

With no passion in our own campaign, how did you expect to win voters?

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 9:26 PM

Palin was not ready for prime time and it showed. I voted for McCain with the fervent prayer he would live an entire term.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:32 PM

Now, excuse me, but these are precisely the same questions being asked by people that Ed and others on the Right are now calling ODS-sufferers.

Jay Mac on November 11, 2008 at 9:27 PM

You betcha!

Buy Danish on November 11, 2008 at 9:32 PM

Reagan love is alive and well

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122628429302812557.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

Jamson64 on November 11, 2008 at 9:32 PM

” Study after study shows that students who serve do better in school, are more likely to go to college, and more likely to maintain that service as adults. So when I’m President, I will set a goal for all American middle and high school students to perform 50 hours of service a year, and for all college students to perform 100 hours of service a year. This means that by the time you graduate college, you’ll have done 17 weeks of service.

We’ll reach this goal in several ways. At the middle and high school level, we’ll make federal assistance conditional on school districts developing service programs, “

And might I point out – in case no one else has yet – that this web site once said “require” performance – not “set a goal.”

Alana on November 11, 2008 at 9:32 PM

Palin was not ready for prime time and it showed. I voted for McCain with the fervent prayer he would live an entire term.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:32 PM

Now you got Obama. I don’t think God listens to your prayers anyway.

Jamson64 on November 11, 2008 at 9:34 PM

Alana on November 11, 2008 at 9:23 PM

Sorry, forgot to add my congrats to you!!

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 9:34 PM

DUH….AGREED!!(sorry couldn’t help myself). Bradky are you listening…jeeez

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 9:31 PM

At what post did I say “Jerry ol buddy I expect you to go along with all of Obama’s ideas.”?

i thought you and I were talking about effective strategy…Jeeez

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:34 PM

You keep talking presidential politics. What I am talking about is the party getting its act together in rebuilding what they have on the ground and reaching out in communities across the country to build up the party membership and make some inroads into the moderate democrat ranks.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:30 PM

I don’t disagree that that should be done at all. My problem is that you seem to think that any action to advance less moderate conservatism would be a bad thing. Both can be done at the same time. Also, when I make claims about what would happen if we take certain actions, they are based upon findings from peer reviewed journal articles. If you desire specific citations, I’d be glad to provide them for you.

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 9:34 PM

It isn’t conservatives job to go toward the RINO’s. It’s our job to convince them that supporting a more conservative agenda is good for the party.

Assuming for the sake of argument that your first sentence is correct then I, as a libertarian-leaning fiscal conservative, agree with your second one.

McCain needs to be pilloried, excoriated, and any other form of humiliation we can heap upon him to send a message to the rest of the RINO’s that they need to get in line or get out.

csdeven on November 11, 2008 at 8:58 PM

Ahh. but now you’ve lost me. Deliberately, no doubt. Where in “my way or the highway” does the “convincing” part factor in? Implied somehow between pillorying and excoriating?

Purging is incompatible with persuading. If you want to win elections, I suggest that the latter is a far more successful strategy in the long run.

Gilda on November 11, 2008 at 9:35 PM

Now you got Obama. I don’t think God listens to your prayers anyway.

Jamson64 on November 11, 2008 at 9:34 PM

ManlyRash told me he “just knows” that he listens. good enough for me.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:35 PM

Palin was not ready for prime time and it showed. I voted for McCain with the fervent prayer he would live an entire term.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:32 PM

Heyyyyy a civil response! Now we’re cookin’!

Are you referring to the interviews that took place after she had been coached for weeks by the McCain campaign to talk exactly like he does? Rather than be frank and honest? Did you notice near the end of the campaign that at the same time she was opening up about Obama, and reportedly pissing off the McCain campaign while doing so, she suddenly was getting the same reactions she got when she was first announced? That woman was muzzled because McCain wasn’t a conservative and he didn’t want her as anything more than a name, and McCain paid for it.

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 9:39 PM

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 9:39 PM

McCain was a puss and would not go on the offensive. Palin had to be as frustrated …as ….we…… you and me.

Jamson64 on November 11, 2008 at 9:42 PM

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:30 PM

Conservatives are out there…They just didn’t vote!
DUUHH! The question is why….Not, how do we reach out and …accommodate! . Show them the true light…
This is too fustrating trying to be reasonable.

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 9:43 PM

Jerry- you got a point millions of Conservatives did not vote for McCain. Funny how that gets lost on those trying to hijack the party. This is about RINO Republicans AND the left both trying to blame Palin the conservative. In reality Reagan conservatism is still seen very favorably.

Jamson64 on November 11, 2008 at 9:45 PM

Palin was not ready for prime time and it showed. I voted for McCain with the fervent prayer he would live an entire term.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:32 PM

By that logic…Then she shouldn’t have won in AK.

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 9:46 PM

That woman was muzzled because McCain wasn’t a conservative and he didn’t want her as anything more than a name, and McCain paid for it.

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 9:39 PM

McCain was the head of the ticket. She is expected to be loyal and follow the lead. No one wanted her to talk just like Mccain nor is there any evidence that “because she was a conservative she was muzzled” but she was supposed to agree with his positions. If she is supposed to be a heavyweight capable of taking over she has not convinced me. If the things she said about Obama were supposed to be left alone per McCain’s instructions she could have proven herself in other ways.
She comes off as self-absorbed and disloyal. McCain is an honorable person who really believes the “country first” theme. He made a mistake in her selection and the burden falls on him for that.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:46 PM

Interesting that the GOP maintained their number of Governors and the Dems did not get their 60 Senate seats in this landslide towards moderation. Yeh right.

Jamson64 on November 11, 2008 at 9:47 PM

By that logic…Then she shouldn’t have won in AK.

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 9:46 PM

Being governor of Alaska is not a prerequisite for the vice presidency nor a guarantee.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:48 PM

Being governor of Alaska is not a prerequisite for the vice presidency nor a guarantee.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:48 PM

Sure as hell beats the executive experience of MCCAIN, OBAMA, or BIDEN. That is what is laughable.

Jamson64 on November 11, 2008 at 9:50 PM

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:32 PM

Also,btw…so much for your believing in Inclusion!
Now you don’t have ans the question about REASONABLE...

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 9:50 PM

This is too fustrating trying to be reasonable.

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 9:43 PM

Getting someone to change party identification is akin to asking them to change religious denominations. Reasonable persuasion is the only way.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:50 PM

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 9:50 PM

there is a difference between being inclusive and disagreement as to a candidate’s abilities.

Jamson64 on November 11, 2008 at 9:50 PM

then why in the name of pete didn’t she run in the primaries so you could have lifted her on your shoulders and chanted Cuda as you carried her to the convention dais to give her acceptance speech?
really. Why didn’t she run in the primaries if she was that qualified?

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:53 PM

Reasonable persuasion is the only way.

Like I said above, reasonable persuasion rarely works as well as other techniques. Look at people who have changed parties and why they have done so. Most of it is emotion based. Dennis Miller, David Horowitz, etc.

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 9:54 PM

She comes off as self-absorbed and disloyal. McCain is an honorable person who really believes the “country first” theme. He made a mistake in her selection and the burden falls on him for that.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:46 PM

Juan Queeg is a clown and a big reason why this party has lost its way. I held my nose and gave him my support and 1100 dollars. You have my assurance that that is the LAST time I will EVER back a RiNO with my mouth or my wallet.

Were McCain half as orgasmic at fighting democrats as he is conservatives we’d have likely won. Neither Queeg or Bambi gained the votes Bush did in ‘04. At Captain’s Quarters during the primary season I was hypercritical of the “esteemed” Democrat from Arizona, but after the primary I called for unity and backing him largely due to his selection of Palin.

Sadly too many conservatives were not placated as regards tghe 1st and 2d amendment attacking RiNO as I was. With Juan we get 85% of the donk agenda at 95% of the price. Time for the purge and a fighting rearguard action on the bill of rights whilst allowing the donks to nuke the goose so “republicans” like you will get the message that the key to winning is not aping the least offensive ideas of the other side but showing how palatable our own ideals are.

have a day,(since our concession to O’bambi was your first one)

sven

sven10077 on November 11, 2008 at 9:54 PM

McCain was the head of the ticket. She is expected to be loyal and follow the lead. No one wanted her to talk just like Mccain nor is there any evidence that “because she was a conservative she was muzzled” but she was supposed to agree with his positions. If she is supposed to be a heavyweight capable of taking over she has not convinced me. If the things she said about Obama were supposed to be left alone per McCain’s instructions she could have proven herself in other ways.

She comes off as self-absorbed and disloyal. McCain is an honorable person who really believes the “country first” theme. He made a mistake in her selection and the burden falls on him for that.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:46 PM

It appears we’re at the fundamental disagreement here. McCain has the reputation for being vindictive and petty, not Palin. Just ask Dubya.

I see McCain as a middle-of-the-road riding right-leaning Joe Lieberman, which is not unfounded considering the reports of his considering leaving the Republicans as Joe did. No surprise then, that they’re such close friends.

Palin was a staunch conservative. McCain was not, and as you say, she was expected to step into line. When she did, their numbers dropped throughout October. Only near the end, when Palin picked up and said “screw it”, did the polls begin to creep back up. These were not coincidences. Moderates were not interested in a centrist, or they would not have picked an extreme lefty like Obama. Again, they want passion. McCain wanted the office, not the pursuance of any principles.

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 9:54 PM

Two of the big tasks looming ahead:

First, let Obama fail while preventing him from screwing up the country too much.

Second, rethink how to get the votes of women, blacks, and Hispanics. Figure out a way to get the message out there.

indythinker on November 11, 2008 at 9:54 PM

Sure as hell beats the executive experience of MCCAIN, OBAMA, or BIDEN. That is what is laughable.

Jamson64 on November 11, 2008 at 9:50 PM

Indeed win or lose we were going to have a guy in the big chair whose main qualifications were “present”.

I’m with Palin.

sven10077 on November 11, 2008 at 9:55 PM

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 9:54 PM

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this point. I think the reasonable persuasion spreads more optimism and interest than shaming someone for their beliefs.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:56 PM

Second, rethink how to get the votes of women, blacks, and Hispanics. Figure out a way to get the message out there.

indythinker on November 11, 2008 at 9:54 PM

You can get two of the three most years and one of them will NEVER vote against Bambi in any. There is a large percentage in each of those subgroups who buy into grievance mongering. They are hard to reach until they have tasted earned success.

We need a velvet Reagan.

sven10077 on November 11, 2008 at 9:57 PM

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this point. I think the reasonable persuasion spreads more optimism and interest than shaming someone for their beliefs.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:56 PM

Hey special KY I’ll raise you ‘06 and ‘08….you stay a principled loser and I’ll use the brass knuckles the donks have been playing with the last 8 years thanks.

sven10077 on November 11, 2008 at 9:58 PM

McCain wanted the office, not the pursuance of any principles.

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 9:54 PM

I am beginning to think you are making a very big assumption. I don’t think he wanted either. Truth be told it would not shock me in the least if he had written the concession speech when the Fan/Fred crisis broke.

Suspending his campaign at every possible excuse told a lot of fencesitters he did not really want the job I’d wager.

sven10077 on November 11, 2008 at 10:01 PM

Alana on November 11, 2008 at 9:23 PM

Sorry, forgot to add my congrats to you!!

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 9:34 PM

What are you congratulating me for?

Alana on November 11, 2008 at 10:01 PM

And might I point out – in case no one else has yet – that this web site once said “require” performance – not “set a goal.”

Alana on November 11, 2008 at 9:32 PM

If federal funding for schools depends on instituting his odious universal service plan, then for all practical purposes it’s not a “goal” it’s a “requirement.

Buy Danish on November 11, 2008 at 10:02 PM

I am beginning to think you are making a very big assumption. I don’t think he wanted either. Truth be told it would not shock me in the least if he had written the concession speech when the Fan/Fred crisis broke.

Suspending his campaign at every possible excuse told a lot of fencesitters he did not really want the job I’d wager.

sven10077 on November 11, 2008 at 10:01 PM

Hardly. He had previously stumbled horribly when he admitted ignorance of economic matters. It was a political maneuver, an attempt to establish an “it’s the economy, stupid” rep, and by passing the bailout, he failed miserably.

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 10:03 PM

Sorry but I don’t buy the analogy….
If you show someone, which I have, that their true calling is conservatism, by the way they live there lives, they will flock to the party. There will be no need to persuade them.
It is the way of the ORI…sorry…just a little humor.

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 10:03 PM

What are you congratulating me for?

Alana on November 11, 2008 at 10:01 PM

You posted something that was right on point…Kudoos was probable a better word to use.

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 10:06 PM

If federal funding for schools depends on instituting his odious universal service plan, then for all practical purposes it’s not a “goal” it’s a “requirement.

Buy Danish on November 11, 2008 at 10:02 PM

Quite, I find it rather amusing that the good Captain “understood the concerns” of the moonbats doing bedwetting drills over the “rights of foreign terrorists not to be eavesdropped” but he seems prone to cast wary glances at those of us who do not want our kids singing praises to the dear leader like thos Cali kids.

The conservative movement needs streetfighters to meet and beat the KOSsacks and moonbats as well as the pinky finger curling debating circles.

sven10077 on November 11, 2008 at 10:06 PM

I would have preferred someone more conservative to have been elected. Actually, Fred Thompson would have been my choice, but he didn’t make the cut. I may not respect Obama: respect needs to be earned. As President and Commander-in-Chief I will honor his position and authority. Time will tell. Regardless, he will be the President of the United States and, if not the person, the office deserves our respect. I pray that he does what needs to be done to keep America free and strong. I pray that his presidency may go down in history as being the most beneficial presidency for the history of the United States. Actually, today, I think it will be a FUBAR. I thank
God that there is power in prayer! To help keep conservatives sane, re-read the Federalist Papers, the Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence. These readings will help keep us sane as to what our great country is about and what our mission is. Remember, we had to endure a Carter to get a Reagan. There will be another presidential election in 2012. Unless Sarah Palin makes some significant imprint on the electorate, Bobby Jindal will be the front runner for the Republican Party. I do not, currently, view the Republican Party to be conservative. There is always hope. Remember, “Si se puede!” AFGE!!!

Phobos on November 11, 2008 at 10:07 PM

Hardly. He had previously stumbled horribly when he admitted ignorance of economic matters. It was a political maneuver, an attempt to establish an “it’s the economy, stupid” rep, and by passing the bailout, he failed miserably.

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 10:03 PM

Sorry I don’t buy it. He was quite capable of campaigning and hell “hiring Forbes” to be his economic voice while on the trail. Juan never once showed the same zeal in running for this office that he did trying to kick his own base in the balls after he had amnesty rammed back down his throat.

He won that point amnesty is now coming so the GOP must lick its wounds, bite the bullet and wargame gaining a bloc of the “new amigos” when their socialist zeal meets their moral horror at the donk values.

I figure it’ll take 4-12 years and we’ll get a good enough split to offset their antics. The Mexicans hate abortion, and will not tolerate “atheists gone wild”…..

sven10077 on November 11, 2008 at 10:10 PM

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:56 PM

Read here and here.

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 10:11 PM

Now, excuse me, but these are precisely the same questions being asked by people that Ed and others on the Right are now calling ODS-sufferers.

JayMac, your comment is such a good comment, it should be studied far and wide, at least on Hot Air, and especially by Ed Morrissey, alone, and he should reflect on it.

The primarily difference between then and now is that then Obama was stoppable and now Obama is the President-elect. This is one of the reasons I very unpopularly accused Ed of a Neville Chamberlain type of unintentional cowardice earlier: Fear in the face of someone with true yet uncertain power.

Finally, Ed calls me and you and others “deranged” so I’m not buying any emotional appeals why it’s overly harsh for me to point out I think he’s showing a type of cowardice and blindness… seen over and over again throughout history.

So tell me, Ed- why was it okay for you to ask about this statement during the summer but if you worry about it now- and ask essentially the same questions about it- you throw out the label of ODS?

Yeah, that’s another good point.

Christoph on November 11, 2008 at 10:13 PM

The conservative movement needs streetfighters to meet and beat the KOSsacks and moonbats as well as the pinky finger curling debating circles.

sven10077 on November 11, 2008 at 10:06 PM

Exactly!

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 10:13 PM

Oh. Well thank you!

And now guys, I am a most mild-mannered individual, and always held civility extremely high, even as a kid. Always very tolerant, always very turn-the-other cheek and walk away. Never lowered myself, as my mother would say.

And I’m telling you: It’s time to lower ourselves! Time to fight this crap!

There is NOTHING deranged about looking at Obama’s history, words, and goals – every last one of them! – and recognizing them for the threat they are!

Here we have a guy suggesting a “domestic security force” as well-funded and large as the military – and some of us are trying to turn that into a PEACE CORPS?

Man, they must be laughing their heads off at us.

Are we going to actually let them tell us we can no longer use words? Like the “socialist” word, or the “brownshirts” word, or any other similar word, when facing things that are the exact definitions of those words?

WHAT A SLIGHT OF HAND. How incredible. “We say it isn’t that, and you can’t use those words, therefore it can never be that. Oh, and because we said so.”

We saw that tactic in the elections, and we are seeing it now. If you can read Obama’s website, if you can u-tube, then it is all right there under your nose. Don’t come to me later and tell me you didn’t see this, because he will be standing there himself saying, “I put it on my website, what more do you want?”

None of this is hidden.

Time to fight fire with fire. We will NEVER win anything with treacly kindness or mincing words. They just run all over us. Or are we trying to define insanity for ourselves – you know, “doing the same thing again expecting a different outcome.”

Obama Derangement Syndrome my foot.

Alana on November 11, 2008 at 10:16 PM

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 10:11 PM

Interesting. fancy way of saying what my Mom always says “Kill em with kindness”.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 10:17 PM

Alana on November 11, 2008 at 10:16 PM

I would recommend looking through the HA archives from Nov 06 to Jan 07. Very similar sentiments as are being expressed here. those tactics have failed spectacularly.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 10:20 PM

Alana on November 11, 2008 at 10:16 PM

YOu are more of a Capt then someone else we know.
ummmm…who could that be….

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 10:20 PM

Good night to all – time to get some sleep and dream of Sven leading the HA masses into battle with the DKos blogging thugs…. the epic virtual battle of the ages.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 10:23 PM

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 10:20 PM

Wrong again…It was the lack of a coherent message and the top of the ticket.

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 10:23 PM

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 10:17 PM

The idea is figuring out what techniques to use with what group of people. Some can be persuaded with rational argument, others you have to berate and shame into thinking a certain way. Some will only vote the way their friends/relatives vote, and others are one issue people. As I’ve said before though, conservatism will only make long-term gains if we can reshape the media. This should be our number one priotity above EVERYTHING else. The longer we wait, the easier it will be for the enemy to control the message.

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 10:23 PM

Jay Mac, your comment was so extraordinarily good and also relevant to the discussion at Protein Wisdom, I hope you’ll forgive me because I cut and pasted it over there lock, stock, and barrel, linking back here and giving your credit for making it naturally.

Christoph on November 11, 2008 at 10:25 PM

And my point is that Reagan said that someone that agrees with you 70% of the time is not your enemy. Why is that not wise advice anymore. Show them the door as the conservatives drop through the trap door of permanent minority status.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:23 PM

Agreed – 100% ideological purity is a sucker bet. We all imagine the candidate who sees every issue our way, but deep down, I hope most conservatives would sooner embrace the candidate that we trust to do the right thing, when they have all the information. Even if that means we disagree sometimes.

Frankly, that candidate for me this time was McCain. I also trusted Romney and Fred in this manner. I’ll never think of Obama that way – and back on topic – I truly think he’s untrustworthy and dishonest in his heart.

Jaibones on November 11, 2008 at 10:26 PM

coherent conservative message.

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 10:28 PM

Like I said above, reasonable persuasion rarely works as well as other techniques. Look at people who have changed parties and why they have done so. Most of it is emotion based. Dennis Miller, David Horowitz, etc.

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 9:54 PM

What on earth are you talking about here? The vast majority of people who move from liberal to conservative viewpoints do so out of reason not emotion, and Miller and Horowitz are in that category.

And Horowitz did far more than “change parties”!

Moving on – look what Barry wants to do with Grandma:

Obama and Biden will expand and improve the Senior Corps programs of Foster Grandparents, Senior
Companions and RSVP that connect individuals over the age of 55 to local volunteer opportunities. They also
will strengthen the AmeriCorps VISTA program to give experienced individuals additional service
opportunities. Experience Corps is a good model that should be expanded beyond reading and mentoring to
other challenges on which national service will be focused. Obama and Biden will work to provide additional income security, including assistance with retirement and family-related costs, and continuation of health care coverage, for people who participate in citizen service.

Volunteer or no Medicare for you, granny!

Buy Danish on November 11, 2008 at 10:29 PM

The longer we wait, the easier it will be for the enemy to control the message.

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 10:23 PM

You mean it’s going to get worse?

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 10:30 PM

No one will have any credibility left if we all give into the impulse to act like the Kos Kiddies for the next two years.

The left has no credibility yet won the election. They are liars and thugs and the President elect is cut from the same cloth. Obama is who he is. He will not change. His thugs will not change. The change needs to be with us.

Conservatives must stop compromising and fight back using every tactic the left has used for decades. Stand up to the thugs … if they push, push back harder. If they yell, yell back harder. Whatever they do … give it back to them in spades. What people yearn for is backbone, not civility.

darwin on November 11, 2008 at 10:35 PM

And my point is that Reagan said that someone that agrees with you 70% of the time is not your enemy. Why is that not wise advice anymore. Show them the door as the conservatives drop through the trap door of permanent minority status.

Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:23 PM

I cannot call Queeg a true friend. The “30%” involved little things like the 1st amendment, the 2d amendment, border security, national sovereignty. The RiNOs have morphed from “conservatives with a dash of welfare state” into “moonbats with a touch of supply side”.

Bush was a “domestic moderate” overall and is judged on the matters of domestic policy and partisan security a failure right now. Juan Queeg is a “true conservative” only when the donks gave in to their urges to nominate the most non-patriotic socialist they could find who could still pull off an “aw shucks I’m uh new at um this” motiff, cagily guessing racial browbeating would cloak with media collusion the worst of his gaffes.

Sorry no I want a leader who:

1) kicks foreign tail when needed

2) frees up as much capital as possible for private sector growth

3) safeguards the Bill of Rights with the same zeal WC Fields would his last bottle of hooch

4) kicks the donks in the nuts every chance he gets rather than inviting them over for popcorn when they are a minority party to have the “lion of liberalism” write the education bill he then instantly hates once signed.

If I want donk lite I can go back and aid the “blue dogs” in being a Potemkin Village of sanity in the fevered swamps….

the RiNOs are already more than half way there content to go back to the defanged GOP of the 54 year democrat reign unless I miss my guess.

sven10077 on November 11, 2008 at 10:35 PM

Where in “my way or the highway” does the “convincing” part factor in?

Gilda on November 11, 2008 at 9:35 PM

The alternative is to give McCain a pass on his behavior at CPAC last year. You know, the conservative convention where he basically blew us off? McCain has to pay a penalty simply to use him as an example as to what we will not accept any longer.

csdeven on November 11, 2008 at 10:37 PM

Buy Danish on November 11, 2008 at 10:29 PM

You’ve got to know that I fit deeply into the cat.
And that is scary on so many levels.

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 10:42 PM

“No one will have any credibility left if we all give into the impulse to act like the Kos Kiddies for the next two years.”

On the other hand, BDS has helped them win two elections in a row ;-)

Of course, it spread to the media, despite what “Mr. Preposterous”, Shep Smith thinks.

The Opinionator on November 11, 2008 at 10:43 PM

. Obama and Biden will work to provide additional income security, including assistance with retirement and family-related costs, and continuation of health care coverage, for people who participate in citizen service.

Oh dear. I hadn’t paid enough attention to that part. They really do want everyone to “volunteer” to work for the government, don’t they?

Again, it’s not like they didn’t warn us. Michelle said Obama would make us work, and we could never go back to things the way they were again. And here it is on the website.

How anybody could read this stuff and NOT be standing on their ear over it, I don’t know.

The best hope is that all Americans get ODS, and soon!

Alana on November 11, 2008 at 10:47 PM

I would hope so. Referring to the president-elect’s wife as “he/she” is bottom of the barrel.

And the relevance of this post continues…

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 11:36 AM

Ed’s got to be LHAO.

Jaibones on November 11, 2008 at 10:50 PM

Buy Danish on November 11, 2008 at 10:29 PM

I was arguing with Bradky who seems to think rational argument is the only way to convince people to change their mind. ANY study on persuasive techniques will show this isn’t the case. In politics, unfortunately, rational argument isn’t even one of the better ways to convince someone to change their mind.

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 10:51 PM

Look, there are issues which are waay too moonbatty to go after Obama on (like the idiotic birth certificate issue) but the Civilian National Defense Corps and his Universal Service Plan are legitimate, totally sane issues for Americans to be concerned about, and IMHO Ed picked the wrong issue to use as an example of ODS.
…..
Buy Danish on November 11, 2008 at 8:32 PM

I think you give up too much ground here. While I could see the whole birth certificate thing become something like 9/11 trutherism, I believe any citizen of this country has a right to ask Obama to release the documentation that shows he is a native-born American. He was born to a foreign national and an American, and they were in Kenya somewhere close to the time he was born. He was raised partly in Indonesia and Kenya, and there seem to be some fair questions whether he was a US citizen at birth, as required by the Constitution.

Now, you may say that seems preposterous, and I’m doubtful there’s any real fire under that smoke. But he owes it to the people who voted for him and the people who voted against him to settle the question once and for all.

And if he won’t, we shouldn’t go crazy with wild accusations. We should simply ask, and keep asking, “Why not? If you have nothing to hide, why not just produce the birth certificate and be done with it?”

theregoestheneighborhood on November 11, 2008 at 10:52 PM

theregoestheneighborhood on November 11, 2008 at 10:52 PM

And don’t forget the possible dual citizenship issue…
ODS alert! Me not you….lol!

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 10:57 PM

I believe any citizen of this country has a right to ask Obama to release the documentation that shows he is a native-born American.

Release it to whom? His state has examined it and concluded it’s a true and correct record (plus there’s the newspaper announcement of his birth).

It’s a Hawai’ian record. They issued it. If his home state says he was born there, I don’t see what anyone else has got to say about it, realistically.

Christoph on November 11, 2008 at 11:06 PM

“And don’t forget the possible dual citizenship issue…”

There is no dual citizenship issue under the constitution. If it was established he had adult dual citizenship — and it most definitely hasn’t been — it would be a political issue.

Christoph on November 11, 2008 at 11:08 PM

Christoph on November 11, 2008 at 11:08 PM

calm down now….didn’t you read what Ed said?….I thought you did. Or you just missed my LOL!

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 11:12 PM

Like Danish wrote….there is enough on his own website to go after him on. We don’t need no stinken’ colb from Kenya Hawaii.

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 11:15 PM

I believe any citizen of this country has a right to ask Obama to release the documentation that shows he is a native-born American.

Release it to whom? His state has examined it and concluded it’s a true and correct record (plus there’s the newspaper announcement of his birth).

It’s a Hawai’ian record. They issued it. If his home state says he was born there, I don’t see what anyone else has got to say about it, realistically.

Christoph on November 11, 2008 at 11:06 PM

Gee, maybe like when a candidate releases his medical records, (Palin this year) or his military records (Bush last election, and Kerry not quite last election)

Release as in make them available to anyone who wants to examine them. Make them part of the public record. That’s the traditional meaning of “releasing your records.” I’d say there’s more right to that than to see a candidate’s military records.

There’s really not even a downside for Obama. I mean, how much privileged information can there be in a birth certificate? Release it as a sign of “transparency.”

But it would establish that he’s willing to listen to the concerns of the public.

Unless, of course, there really is something to hide.

theregoestheneighborhood on November 11, 2008 at 11:16 PM

He wasn’t just dumped into a radical world, then went along to get along. He believes it all, and surrounded himself with all of it, all of his life. Purposely.

In view of his entire history and beliefs, if he tries to govern (or should I say “rule”?) from the center, I’ll eat my hat.

Alana on November 11, 2008 at 9:16 PM

Yes you are correct Alana.

Remember that speech Obama gave on race in America? There was one sentence that stuck out to me. It clearly expresses what he believes:

Quote:

“Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition.”

You know .. I don’t remember it that way. What I remember is that the Reagan Coalition had it’s roots in the Goldwater campaign that my parents were very active in when I was a kid.

Obama believes that Republicans are Republicans because we are angry over welfare and affirmative action.

Unity my ass.

Texas Gal on November 11, 2008 at 11:22 PM

Or you just missed my LOL!

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 11:12 PM

Indeed!

Gee, maybe like when a candidate releases his medical records, (Palin this year) or his military records (Bush last election, and Kerry not quite last election)

Release as in make them available to anyone who wants to examine them. Make them part of the public record. That’s the traditional meaning of “releasing your records.” I’d say there’s more right to that than to see a candidate’s military records.

They usually make photocopies. Obama only has one primary birth certificate, and I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect him to release it to anyone and everyone. He already released a copy of his certified birth record on his website.

Hawai’i is convinced Obama is American and so am I.

Christoph on November 11, 2008 at 11:23 PM

I also would like to see who funded him at Columbia U.
Maybe that too is privledged….

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 11:25 PM

Hawai’i is convinced Obama is American and so am I.

Christoph on November 11, 2008 at 11:23 PM

Sorry….I won’t believe it until I see it and it is certified to be authentic.

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 11:30 PM

I have to go now I’m having too much fun..(so I’m told)
and I’m getting dirty looks…the good kind…nite

jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 11:33 PM

Gee, maybe like when a candidate releases his medical records, (Palin this year) or his military records (Bush last election, and Kerry not quite last election)

Release as in make them available to anyone who wants to examine them. Make them part of the public record. That’s the traditional meaning of “releasing your records.” I’d say there’s more right to that than to see a candidate’s military records.

They usually make photocopies. Obama only has one primary birth certificate, and I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect him to release it to anyone and everyone. He already released a copy of his certified birth record on his website.

Hawai’i is convinced Obama is American and so am I.

Christoph on November 11, 2008 at 11:23 PM

All of Hawai’i? Or one particular official?

The vault copy is no problem. Let it be examined by credible people to establish it’s genuine, put it back in the vault, and release the photocopies.

So easy to do.

theregoestheneighborhood on November 11, 2008 at 11:40 PM

Now that everyone has said their peace over and over and over again, if we see any more people mentioning Hitler we can use this to shut their deranged asses up.

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/276377.php

The genocide of 25 million Americans for daring to cling to the American way of life was just part of their reeducation plan for a communist America.

I do not expect you to take my word for it. Watch the documentary clip above. And if there are those of you who don’t trust Grathwohl despite the lives he’s saved foiling at least two Weathermen attempts at mass murder, you can simply see what Ayers and Dohrn wrote, in their own words.

Zombie has found an extremely rare, out of print edition of Prairie Fire, the communist manifesto authored by Ayers and Dohrn as they bombed their way across America.

Read the report for yourself.

You’ll be stunned at the depth of the seething hatred of the United States and our way of life contained in these pages, and wonder how the protégé of these traitors, people who formally declared war against our nation and plotted murders on scale four times greater than the Holocaust, ever became the Democratic nominee for President of the nation they so loathe that they went to war against it.

The good news? While their hope for genocidal change was four times as psychotic as Hitler, it was only a third or a half of the genocidal world record:

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,000

Whew! The bad news? Well, curiously enough, Obama likes to quote Mao and has palled around with Maoists.

Please though, no Obama=Mao comparisons. He just likes to quote him when he’s running for President, etc. It’s not that he’s like Mao, or a sign of how exactly he will revolutionize America and the world. It’s just an election thing. Hey, I’ll often quote Stalin myself, but like Obama I make sure it’s only in major job interviews when I’m trying to seal the deal. It’s not anything I would say among my close Maoist or terrorist friends.

Do I need a /sarc here? Probably not.

econavenger on November 12, 2008 at 12:05 AM

…everyone has said their piece that is.

econavenger on November 12, 2008 at 12:14 AM

econavenger on November 12, 2008 at 12:05 AM

Youtube clip no longer available. Does google own youtube now?

JustTruth101 on November 12, 2008 at 12:22 AM

Here’s another copy

JustTruth101 on November 12, 2008 at 12:24 AM

I’ll eat my hat.

Alana on November 11, 2008 at 9:16 PM

After a coupla years into the new admin., that hat may be the last thing in the larder.

soundingboard on November 12, 2008 at 12:27 AM

Obama deserves every bit of crap he gets. He is a totalitarian thug.

rlwo2008 on November 12, 2008 at 12:37 AM

Comment pages: 1 ... 6 7 8 9


You must be logged in to post a comment.