The onset of ODS
posted at 10:50 am on November 11, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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For the past seven-plus years, the Left has suffered from Bush Derangement Syndrome. Well, actually, the rest of us have suffered from their embrace of BDS, which one might think would inoculate us from any related maladies. As Jake Tapper notes, though, the onset of Obama Derangement Syndrome might prove that wrong:
We all remember “Bush derangement syndrome” — defined by Charles Krauthammer as “the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency — nay — the very existence of George W. Bush.”
We already need a name for the reverse disorder.
Rep. Paul Broun, R-Georgia, recently said that he fears President-elect Obama may create a security force akin to the Gestapo to impose a Marxist dictatorship.
“It may sound a bit crazy and off base, but the thing is, he’s the one who proposed this national security force,” Broun told The Associated Press. “I’m just trying to bring attention to the fact that we may – may not, I hope not – but we may have a problem with that type of philosophy of radical socialism or Marxism.”
Broun refers to this portion of a speech Obama gave in July in Colorado. The media dropped two sentences from its reporting of the speech, which set off critics when World Net Daily reported it:
We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.
At the time, Obama’s supporters claimed that he meant the Peace Corps and other volunteer organizations. That seems a stretch, but so does Broun’s interpretation of it. As I wrote at the time, the nation already has a number of non-military national security forces, including the FBI, ICE, Border Patrol, and so on. If we want to fund that better, many conservatives would agree, but not funding it to the same extent as the military. In the context of Obama’s remarks above, though, he fairly clearly meant to at least include a volunteer force in outreach within and outside the US as some sort of Department of Peace-like indirect boost to national security.
Nothing in that speech hints at a Gestapo-like organization at all. I’d agree that we have to remain vigilant at all times to ensure that the government doesn’t try to impose such a regime upon us, but this is an extremely thin reed to grasp for such a conclusion. Although I supported a freer hand at the NSA in monitoring communications with one end in the US for possible terrorist activities given the dangers we face in this era, it’s far easier for the government to turn that into a Gestapo than what Obama proposed. That’s why I understood the Left’s opposition to it (as well as a small minority of conservatives) and thought reasonable safeguards against potential abuse were appropriate, as the eventual compromise in Congress provided.
If we plan to offer a rational alternative to the coming debacle of the next two years, then we’d better stick to facts and eschew hyperbole. We need to oppose the reality of the radical agenda proposed by Obama and the Democratic majorities in Congress, not fantasies spun out of context-free snippets of speeches. The more critics invoke Hitler and Stalin instead of Jimmy Carter and Lyndon Johnson, the better the reality of Obama, Reid, and Pelosi will seem in 2010.
Addendum: Also, can we please get rid of this canard?
“We can’t be lulled into complacency,” Broun said. “You have to remember that Adolf Hitler was elected in a democratic Germany. I’m not comparing him to Adolf Hitler. What I’m saying is there is the potential.”
No, he wasn’t. Hitler was never elected to any office. He became Chancellor because of a deal struck between political factions warring with each other in the twilight of Weimar Germany, appointed to the position by President von Hindenburg. The Nazis never even won a majority in the Reichstag, and in fact lost seats in the last free elections before Hitler became Chancellor. Unlike in most parliamentary systems, the executive in Germany did not need to hold a seat in the Reichstag. The Weimar system never had the support of the German people, and the reversion to strong-man rule was almost inevitable.
And unlike Germany, we will get free elections in two years. If we want to win majorities back, we’ll need to stop invoking Nazis at every turn.
Update: I’m going to add this here rather than reposting it every 50 comments or so in the thread. Nothing in this post says we should refrain from criticizing Obama. I’m just arguing that we have to stick to the facts rather than screeching historically inaccurate references to Nazis every time we disagree with Obama. No one will have any credibility left if we all give into the impulse to act like the Kos Kiddies for the next two years.
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MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 5:54 PM
Well Ed,
Looks like your readers now have a case of EDS.
Sorry about that but as an Independent I read both sides.
I guess they need more time to get over it, start being “real Americans”, think “country first” and give our new President a chance.
On Veterans Day, giving our new commander in chief a chance is the patriotic thing to do.
getalife on November 11, 2008 at 5:55 PM
1. You know darn well that there are people like Susan Tompkins and George Soros who will fund efforts to do exactly that.
2. You are correct that Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity will not be put out of business. They are superstars of the field and will survive. But they commonly are heard on stations with an all- or mostly-conservative host lineup from sunrise to midnight. If the FD is started up again as it was pre-Reagan, the government would REQUIRE Rush or Sean or Savage or Ingraham be balanced with a Schultz, Maddow, Malloy, or Rhodes.
Goodbye popular hosts, goodbye ratings, goodbye profits, perhaps goodbye format, to be replaced with something non-political and bland. And as far as Dems are concerned, that’s the way (uh huh, uh huh) they like it, because talk radio is the counterbalance to the Dem-leaning, Obama-worshipping news media. The fewer talk stations, the less informed the electorate. The less informed the electorate, the better. That’s why they have been salivating since 2006 to bring the cowardly policy back.
L.N. Smithee on November 11, 2008 at 5:57 PM
Fine point. Damn fine.
MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 5:58 PM
Telling the plain, ugly truth about Obama’s shameless megalomania (”I will not weaponize space“) and crypto-Marxist radicalism (”Spread the wealth around“) and crackpot mentors (Wright and Pfleger) and domestic terrorist pals (Ayers and Dohrn) and crooked associates (Rezko) and kook devotees (Oprah and Colin Powell) is bad enough.
No need to make up silly charges (”Nazi-lite“) when Barry is more than indicted by the corrupt reality of his vanity, vacuity and venality.
profitsbeard on November 11, 2008 at 5:59 PM
Nice use of unattributed text from Wikipedia to rebut a person who cites scholarly works there, David.
I said Obama is not a dialectic materialist. You respond by saying he has a class-based, chiliastic outlook. You’ll get no argument from me as to the chiliasm, but dialectic materialism is the sine qua non of Marxism. (To proactively avoid any potential misunderstandings, “sine qua non” is Latin for “without which not”.) For a scholarly, non-Wikified take on dialectic materialism, consult Chapter 21 of Socialism or Chapter 3 of Human Action.
As to your second ignorant point, i.e., that Obama, while not a Marxist, is nonetheless using Marxism to achieve communism, I say the following: Marx used the terms communism and socialism interchangeably, but only Marx and his followers use the term communism, so it makes the most logical sense to use the term communism to mean “Marxist or Marxian socialism.” If Obama is not a Marxist, why on earth would he be using Marxism as a stepping stone to communism? Non sequitur.
Besides, the very bit you plagiarized from Wikipedia refutes your own alleged argument. There was no proletarian revolution. Obama was elected by upper-middle-class whites in a free and fair democratic plebiscite. Outside of coal country, America doesn’t even have a proletariat anymore.
(Also, FYI, “race” and “class” are two totally different things. Further, a race-based, dialectic, teleological view of history is Hegelian, not Marxist.)
hicsuget on November 11, 2008 at 6:00 PM
People do not want to listen to liberal talk radio. It isn’t marketable. If you make it mandatory on all existing talk radio stations, those stations will go out of business. Or they will eliminate all politically-charged talk from their line-up so that they don’t have to waste programming time on things that people don’t want to listen to.
Talk radio will go back to what it was during the days of the Fairness Doctrine: cooking shows, pet shows, home and garden shows and (maybe) counseling shows. In short, talk radio will die as a successful medium.
spmat on November 11, 2008 at 6:00 PM
Redistributionism violates notions of private property, which our Founders believed to be the basis of freedom. I happen to agree. Of course, our brilliant SCOTUS decided that private property rights were non-existent, essentially, in Kelo.
The Microsoft case was one of the most egregious attacks on reason and common sense ever, let alone its dangerous slide into government control over the private sector. The whole idea that Microsoft was a monopoly, which it was not by the raw numbers, and when there were always free alternative OS’s available was just stupifying. I’ve never had much respect for the reasoning abilities of lawyers and judges but that case was just beyond the pale. It was interesting how other technology companies (many with larger percentages of the markets in their areas/niches) didn’t seem to mind the idiot attack on Microsoft.
progressoverpeace on November 11, 2008 at 6:06 PM
So was BDS effective or not? That’s all I want to know before I sign up for the ODS vaccine.
Ronnie on November 11, 2008 at 6:07 PM
i think you need to … get a life…
First off, its Memorial Day, not Veterans Day.
And feel free to question my Patriotism… because I question the annointed one…
/Looks at his Shadowbox of medals on the wall…
Romeo13 on November 11, 2008 at 6:07 PM
Ed-
I usually resent it when people tout their own resume when they defend a certain position, but allow me to break my own rule while I tell you you’re wrong…at least in part. First, I happen to know quite a bit about political psychology. Second, this is what you are wrong about: Condemning attitude extremity on the part of some conservatives (even if they are only being condemned for resorting to lying, demagoguery, etc.) is hindering the advancement of conservatism. Had all Americans shunned sites like dKos and demanded less MSM editorializing what I am about to advocate would not be necessary, but unfortunately it’s too late. There needs to be many, many more extreme conservatives before things can get better. Two important points: research shows attitude strength (including extremity) begets attitude strength (i.e. people with a certain attitude seek out others with similar attitudes and socializing with them makes their own attitudes more certain, extreme, accessible, etc.). Also, those with strong attitudes are more likely to act on those attitudes. What does this mean for the current situation? There needs to be parity between conservatives and liberals. If we “take the high road” and avoid parity, we will lose. Period! Nobody will like conservatives more if extremists are shunned amoung our own ranks, despite what you might think. The left is full of (literal) psychopaths who are out in the public for the world to see and it doesn’t hurt their cause. The more extreme a partisan gets, the more likely they are to donate, campaign for candidates, get others to vote like them, write letters to the editor, etc. We NEED our own dKos and HuffPo sites and ACORN and Soros sugardaddies and so on. Once parity has been achieved then we need to find ways to reduce the extremity on both sides (and ONLY on both sides otherwise, once again, the parity will be gone). Having us take the so-called “high road” forces us to fight with one hand tied behind our back. Most of the lessening in attitude extremity will involve making demands of the media to get back to actual journalism (the media is the number one source for the increase in political attitude extremity due to the sensory nature of it coupled with constant exposure to extreme positions and arguments in defense of these positions which makes motivated cognitions and sustainment of existing attitudes much more common) although regular citizens will be able to visit sites like civilpolitics.org as well. My advice: let those with extreme conservative attitudes have their fun. Leave them alone, they serve a (more useful than not) purpose. Focus on making progress on other fronts.
davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 6:08 PM
Doh, my bust…. shouldn’t start drinkin this early… LOL…
Romeo13 on November 11, 2008 at 6:09 PM
on what planet, idiot? I think you need to get a calender.
your_worst_enemy on November 11, 2008 at 6:13 PM
Wrong on three counts. First, socialism is government ownership of the means of production. A one-time redistribution from one group of private citizens to another group of private citizens involves no government ownership, just common theft. If the redistribution consists of consumer goods only, then it also simultaneously fails the second test.
Second, Bill Gates hasn’t been “de facto Microsoft” since January of 2000, when he stepped down to run the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Steve Ballmer has been CEO since then. And Gates only owns about 8% of Microsoft, so expropriating Gates’ holdings alone would not result in a significant change in the controlling bloc of votes.
Third, it is clear that you do not know what “de facto” and “de jure” mean. Both are Latin; the first means, “because of an act,” and the second means, “because of the law.” De jure socialism refers to an outright expropriation of all a society’s means of production, as occurred after the Bolshevik Revolution. De facto socialism is when the government controls all of the means of production while color of title remains with the original owners, as occurred in Nazi Germany.
hicsuget on November 11, 2008 at 6:15 PM
The zero did not know the difference ether
driver on November 11, 2008 at 6:16 PM
/thread
You win.
MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 6:19 PM
Strangely enough, by way of historical “trivia” (still important), one man who wasn’t anti-semitic was Vladimir Lenin.
Christoph on November 11, 2008 at 6:19 PM
Ed said that we were taking “snippets” of statements Obama has made and allowed them to unleash paranoid visions. That’s the excuse Farrakhan uses. And gosh, all Obama wanted to do was have a very large Peace Corps. What’s wrong with that?
The fact is that it is Obama’s fault that we hear what he says and immediately think “Brown Shirts”. Between his National Civilian Security Force and his plans for universal involuntary servitude for our children, and his appointment of Rahm Emanuel as his Chief of Staff, alarm bells are ringing very loudly, and I promise you I am perfectly sane. But hey, Obama can put this all to rest right now by explaining himself in very clear terms, and maybe by retracting his plan to base school funding on compliance with his authoritarian vision.
Oh, and as chairman of the CAC Obama funelled money to neo-Stalinist Mike Klonsky, but I know that should not be a concern. After all, former Weatherman radicals make wonderful educators.
Buy Danish on November 11, 2008 at 6:19 PM
So what you’re basically saying to use that historical analogy that everyone loves to hate, and that I and others were taught as a cautionary tale, but have let internet aholes shouting “Godwin” intimidate them to stop using or embarrassing when they do…
It was the anti-Nazi anti-militarist anti-fascist extremism of folks like Churchill and FDR that defeated the afore named evil forces, not moderate and mild opposition from the Neville Chamberlains of the world.
Christoph on November 11, 2008 at 6:25 PM
We need the internet and CPU…Conservative People Unite.
tomas on November 11, 2008 at 6:29 PM
On the way home I was listening to Sean Hannity with a caller saying now is the time for America to come together and put all of our petty bickering to the side because hey, this financial crisis could ruin he country.
Rewind tape to a year stay in Balad Iraq or Bagram Afghanistan (take your pick) where me and my buds were treated to nightly news in the DFAC of every liberal under the sun running our CinC, his administration, our military leaders and the military in general. Called us cold blooded murderers. Said he were acting like terrorist and scaring children by breaking into their homes late at night, said were were strafing villages and killing civilians.
I’ll tell you what sports fans, if a war of the magnitude we’ve been fighting wasn’t enough to stoke the fires of party cooperation for more than a week after 9-11 then this financial crisis isn’t enough for me to have to kiss these guys asses and act like everything is peachy keen now. Not in the idiotic refrain of “moving the country forward”. While we’re being asked to be bipartisan, they’re still trying to steal an election in Minnesota to get a filibuster proof Senate. We’re suckers because they make us give a rats rear end.
hawkdriver on November 11, 2008 at 6:32 PM
What has “credibility” gotten us?
Y-not on November 11, 2008 at 6:32 PM
One other thing. The Left was outraged that Bush wanted to track terrorists internet use and phone calls. Bush never tried to conscript our children. The only thing he ever did was ask that there be tests they have to pass as part of No Child Left Behind, and look at the furor that has caused.
Apparently if one is on the Left, testing is bad, but forcing your kids to turn into little ACORNS is fine and dandy, and if we object we are suffering from ODS.
Here are Obama’s words. I’ll leave it to Ed to defend them:
Buy Danish on November 11, 2008 at 6:33 PM
Never blog angry.
hawkdriver on November 11, 2008 at 6:34 PM
Roger that. It’s gotten us nothing. Time to regroup, kick ass and not even worry about collecting names.
hawkdriver on November 11, 2008 at 6:37 PM
Good grief. It takes unbelievable brass ones to say
.
Remeber how the Left told us that dissent was patriotic, how Bush as CIC was an idiot, incompetent, evil, blah, blah? Remember the term Bushhitler? Remember when the Left mocked Pres Bush immediately after 9/11 because he didn’t run screaming from the classroom where he was reading to children? Remeber the whining from the Left because Bush “let” NO be flooded? Why didn’t the Left ever think about being patriotic and not trashing every effort Bush made?
katiejane on November 11, 2008 at 6:46 PM
Because the Left doesn’t have the respect or the balls to be patriotic. We do. It’s not a chore or a difficult thing for us. It is for them. If that’s going to be difference between us and them, I will gladly display that difference.
MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 6:50 PM
You fool!
Pointing out the danger Obama poses based on his associations, words, and increasingly actions doesn’t make your fellow citizens unpatriotic.
Christoph on November 11, 2008 at 6:57 PM
Conservative credibility is like American capitalism: it’s a good idea that’s never been tried. Strip the movement of the religious fruitcakes (think Pat Robertson), the crypto-fascists (think Pat Buchanan), the big-government populists (think Mike Huckabee), the anti-intellectual ignorance-is-bliss types (think Bush and Palin) and the I’m-just-here-to-play-the-game types (think Ted Stevens), and conservatives might have a shot at credibility. Of course, if somebody did that, all that would remain would be the “chattering class” and the “RINOs”…
hicsuget on November 11, 2008 at 6:59 PM
How about we demand that they give Bush a chance on Veterans Day instead of quickly jumping on the O bandwagon of love and happiness?
Hawkdriver, your 6:32 post is what I was thinking, too.
PBoilermaker on November 11, 2008 at 6:59 PM
And like an abused wife who stays with her abuser nothing will change. I’m not saying we should sink to the level of the Kos & Huffington Post crowd but Republicans really need to accept the reality that you can’t continue to roll over and play dead in the name of being nice. Stop expecting people immediately “get over it” – all that does is cause people to resent being lectured to. Reason me in a month – not in a few days.
katiejane on November 11, 2008 at 7:01 PM
Get bent, you maple leaf sucking tool.
MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 7:02 PM
Bingo.
PBoilermaker on November 11, 2008 at 7:02 PM
Obama is a Narcissistic Personality Disorder:
http://www.analyst-network.com/article.php?art_id=2336
Understanding Obama: The Making of a Fuehrer
http://www.faithfreedom.org/obama.html
mountainaires on November 11, 2008 at 7:03 PM
I’m not expecting people to immediately “get over it”. However, that Kos-like behavior, which you just said we should not sink to, already has been displayed numerous times in the last week. Some of us already sank there. We’re playing the same tune they did in 2000.
I don’t want anyone to “get over” Obama until he’s out of office. Staying vigilant and watching the thug from Chicago is a given to any real conservative. However, you are not being vigilant by “just noticing similarities” between Obama and the Nazis.
What we’re asking people to get over is the knee-jerk gutter insults about Obama. It’s been a week. Get over the infantile crap about the next gestapo. Focus on what we know, because there’s a good chance we can sink him with it.
And I’ll lecture anyone who keeps sinking to that crap because a week is more than enough. Either we are different than the Left or we’re not, and it was the Left that spewed the “Chimpy McBushitler” garbage, and guess what it got them? TWO TERMS OF BUSH.
MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 7:07 PM
Stop the circular firing squad. This is a smear by the Associated Press. Stand up for the guy.
faraway on November 11, 2008 at 7:23 PM
Exactly! Thank you for posting that!
davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 7:30 PM
I’ve been defending Paul Broun all along. I thought he was courageous, right, moderate in his statement and at worst, not fully versed on better historical analogies.
Christoph on November 11, 2008 at 7:30 PM
Err … isn’t it a bit premature to declare ODS before the man even takes office?
TheUnrepentantGeek on November 11, 2008 at 7:31 PM
Madison Conservative at 6:50 PM-
The patriotism that depends upon some political advantage before it displays itself is spurious if not seditious.
profitsbeard on November 11, 2008 at 7:35 PM
Also, its the Iron Rule of Internet discussions–he who invokes the Nazis lose the discussion.
bopone on November 11, 2008 at 7:37 PM
I agree. So shedding yours in response to the loss of a political office to your party would be shameful, would it not?
MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 7:41 PM
Hey Mad you are showing your age. I thought I was the only one that remembered ” get bent” LOL….
DeweyWins on November 11, 2008 at 7:42 PM
I think you miss the point about extremity of opinions. Articulate and passionate conservatism is needed to compete with viciously insane liberalism, and intense repetition of meaningless Obama-platitudes.
Right_of_Attila on November 11, 2008 at 7:44 PM
While I can’t disagree that we shouldn’t indulge in any kind of inaccurate references… I have no intention whatsoever of counting myself among “the loyal opposition”.
This isn’t about bad manners. It’s about Individualism (Liberty) as opposed to collectivism.
We don’t bargain with collectivists. We don’t appease them. They are the antithesis of freedom.
Pardon the Star Trek analogy… but THEY are “The Borg” and they’re all about assimilating our behinds into the liberal hive. We’re fools if we don’t resist.
Collectivism vs. Individualism. It’s as simple as that. All that’s left to do is to choose a side and then utilize every legal option available to us in order to defend it.
Murf76 on November 11, 2008 at 7:45 PM
I thought they all used this “Patriotic dissent” the last few years as explanation for the things they would say and do.
I figure it is my turn to show this kind of patriotism. I’m sorry. I don’t have to sing Kum-by-ya, and just play along.
End of story.
Noelie on November 11, 2008 at 7:47 PM
Any move Obama might make against the First or Second Amendments means we have to fight like hell. That includes the Fairness Doctrine.
Even if Unfairness Doctrine returns, though, Rush, Sean, and everybody can and will go to satellite radio (Sirius). Rush could almost buy Sirius outright if he wanted to. If millions of people sign up, the cost to buy the radio and subscribe will mean it will come down.
I believe Obama’s moves to destroy liberty will be minimal because he is just as confused about life as he is evil, and he has never shown any effectiveness in wielding real power. We can defeat any challenge to liberty Obama presents.
The game plan should be, however, to assume that Obama will not make such moves. Give him the benefit of the doubt, at least in public, so that when he fails miserably, he and liberalism will be utterly and completely discredited, such as what happened to Jimmy Carter’s reputation in the 80s.
indythinker on November 11, 2008 at 7:51 PM
What has “no credibility” gotten you?
Because it’s foolish to believe that not fighting dirty is what lost the past two election cycles.
As for not having credibility, it’s why I left the Democrats.
Just my .02
SouthernDem on November 11, 2008 at 7:52 PM
I don’t see that phrase on change.gov. Has someone been editing it again?
I do remember that it originally said they would “require” community service, not just “set a goal”.
tom on November 11, 2008 at 7:52 PM
I’m 26, so I’m not sure if that’s really bad or not.
MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 7:55 PM
I did, but he’s already missed the free throws and Vladimir is getting ready to poster-ize him.
phreshone on November 11, 2008 at 7:56 PM
We really need to learn not just to oppose Obama where needed, but also to try to deprogram Obama supporters into seeing through the man. Question everything he does that’s questionable. Put people on the spot to explain why it doesn’t bother them.
Millions of people are mesmerized by empty promises. We need to encourage them to think.
Which, by the way, is the real antidote to liberalism.
tom on November 11, 2008 at 7:56 PM
You’re right Danish….nothing to worry about...be happy….
jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 8:00 PM
BTW, all above discussion aside, I have to reject the ODS term. I see a ton of suspicion about Obama, but it seems to be well-earned. There may be some overheated criticisms.
But honestly! BDS is a very well-defined phenomenon, and the whole point is that there seemed to be so little reason for such extreme paranoia. The same cannot be said of Obama. BDS approached mental illness. I simply don’t see the same dynamic at work in criticism of Obama.
Why would we be so quick to treat Obama criticism as an equal of the extreme paranoia and delusions commonly applied to Bush for these last eight yearS?
tom on November 11, 2008 at 8:04 PM
Well the term ODS is actually
OBAMA
DEVOTEE
SYNDROME
defendfaithandfamily on November 11, 2008 at 8:10 PM
Obama does fit the medical definition of narcissist perfectly. That plays into our hands. Narcissists ultimately fail. He thinks he knows better than everyone else as part of a defense mechanism to protect himself from childhood emotional damage. This will lead to his downfall as no one voted for a leader like that. The people will feel duped by Obama and become very angry with him, much to conservative’s benefit.
indythinker on November 11, 2008 at 8:13 PM
I guess I’m curious in whose eyes conservatives need to maintain credibility. Who defines “credibility?”
The media smeared Governor Palin, who was the cleanest of the four candidates running, and tried to paint her as some unethical right-wing wacko. Her record as a reformer and a straight talker did not earn her any credibility with the media and, hence, the voters. Meanwhile Obama, whose past associations are certainly worrisome and in my opinion alarming, is given a complete pass by the media. Where’s his credibility?
I feel like we are in a race to try to turn things back around in the next two years. If we are not successful at shining the light on Obama’s (Pelosi’s and Reid’s) dirty tricks and also fail to win back some congressional seats, I am convinced that the next Presidential election will be even less legitimate than this one was.
Obama has demonstrated a willingness to say and do anything to get elected. What little we have been allowed to see of his ideas, past associations, and goals tells me that his vision for the U.S. is to model it after socialist Europe. His supporters — and by this I mean educated, upper middle class people I work with, not the faceless/nameless protesters who are threatening Mormons over Prop 8 or destroying the property of people with McCain lawn signs — are intolerant of opposing viewpoints and suppress them through ridicule and “blacklisting”.
I see the elements that are precursors of a totalitarian state, frankly, and I am not worried if that makes me “less credible.”
Y-not on November 11, 2008 at 8:13 PM
Ed,
Very good post. Regrettably it seems that the lemmings are not ready to heed this advice. They want ODS, they need ODS, ODS makes them feel oh so alive. Never mind how much damage it causes.
I think that folks like you, Patterico, Rick Moran, AP and others are good influences and the hope for a more united party. Too bad more people don’t really consider what you are saying. It has been like this for two years already.. could be a long 8 years more if the juveniles don’t grow up.
Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 8:19 PM
Fixed it for you. Now it’s RINO-free.
MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 8:21 PM
We have a right to be angry. What gives us real hope, though, is our ability to channel our anger intelligently. I suggest we channel it toward plotting the discrediting and defunding of the Left.
Here’s a list of what we should do.
Stop federal guarantees for student loans, except continue them for trade schools. This cuts off funding for liberal and radical professors.
Make affirmative action illegal. This reconfirms the American Dream and restores the basic premise of our society: equality before the law.
Frequent only fair media, like breitbart.com and perhaps Drudge Report. Pay no money and do not watch any media company like Viacom (CBS) or Time Warner (CNN) or GE or Microsoft (MSNBC).
Support legislation to cut off funding for ACORN and similar groups.
Fight all we can on immigration.
Etc….
indythinker on November 11, 2008 at 8:21 PM
Your honor exhibit A for the juvenile, myopic morons who would rather see 8 years of increasingly liberal policies because they just have to be mad, snarky, and generally useless in terms of helping the party.
I rest my case.
Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 8:23 PM
I’ve got a better idea. How about getting involved in intelligent discussions that effectively persuade people of all demographics that conservative ideals may be the better choice for them.
The fact is none of the list you wrote can be accomplished because the GOP doesn’t have a majority in anything. When you decide to be part of a united party things will turn for the better.
Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 8:26 PM
In light of the defense’s absence during the initial proceedings of the trial, I would ask that your honor bring to counsel’s attention that I have been on his and Ed’s side this whole damn time, and ask that his failure to recognize said position and base his case on the pointing out of one conservative pundit as being in the same boat with Noonan, Will, Brooks and others, be entered into the record as spurious and negligent.
Thank you.
MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 8:26 PM
You don’t like them because they speak uncomfortable truths you wish to deny.
Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 8:27 PM
I appreciate the idealism of MadisonConservative (see hs 6:50 PM post); and he is right about being better than the scumbags of the Left. But I do hasten to add that we are in for a helluva of fight with the Left; it is unavoidable. There is a gathering storm unlike what we have seen perhaps ever. So I am for using this time to “re-load” (i.e., read, think, build political connections, strategize). The future of America will be at stake. Obama is a combination of far left authoritarian appeasement-minded socialist and a Chicago thuggish machine politician, and he will be showing his true political self soon enough. “Country First” will then mean going on the attack to preserve the America that we love — the home of the brave and the land of the free.
Phil Byler on November 11, 2008 at 8:30 PM
Well said, Ed.
Some of the comments here are embarrassing. You people have been watching way too many bad movies.
Potfry on November 11, 2008 at 8:31 PM
I didn’t deny anything. I disagreed with them. Quit pigeonholing me, because you’re doing a terrible job. I was as critical of McCain as they were the whole time. I notice you’ve also refused to acknowledge your gross mistake in pegging me as of the sufferers of ODS. Care to try again, with a little integrity? Or would you rather continue to misrepresent me?
MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 8:32 PM
Ch,Ch,Ch,Ch,Changes…
I took it directly from the “service” section of his campaign website which, unlike that section at Change.Gov, is still up and running. Click on Issues, then Service, then click away at all the sub categories.
Look, there are issues which are waay too moonbatty to go after Obama on (like the idiotic birth certificate issue) but the Civilian National Defense Corps and his Universal Service Plan are legitimate, totally sane issues for Americans to be concerned about, and IMHO Ed picked the wrong issue to use as an example of ODS.
Moreover, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this statement by Bround:
Okay, so Broun was wrong when he said that Hitler was elected, and direct references to Hitler are ill advised, but that error does not make that^^^ statement “deranged”, particularly given the undeniable fact that Obama has spent his entire life in the company of radical socialists and Marxists, and just named Rahm “Universal Service” Emanuel as his Chief of Staff.
Buy Danish on November 11, 2008 at 8:32 PM
Here’s an interesting article that takes our fears to the next level.
jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 8:33 PM
Here’s what I mean on credibility.
In 1976, liberalism and the Democrat Party had gained credibility due Republican ties to the Watergate scandal, inflation, and the unpopular Vietnam War. People wanted a change. After four years of a Democrat President and Congress, stagflation, foreign defeats, unemployment, and humiliation, people’s stopped believing in liberalism and the Democrat Party. Their credibility were badly hurt.
In 1980, Reagan won the Presidency. For the next 26 years, conservative economics enjoyed credibility and liberal economics suffered as its credibility stayed very low. People just didn’t believe liberals had the right ideas.
With the economic hell of 2007 and 2008, and the media war against defending freedom abroad, however, conservativism has had its credibility hurt. Many people go so far as to say that the Republican Party is racist, despite the reality that it is the liberals who are racist and conservatives who are colorblind.
The trick will be to get people to flip back to where they were in 1980. The only thing that will convince people to give conservatives another shot is for liberals to fail miserably, which they will do if they are actually given enough rope to hang themselves.
Strongly resist against the Democrats on any national security stupidity Obama does, lifetime judicial appointments, open borders, and any rollback of 1st or 2nd Amendment liberties. On Obama’s liberal economic policy, though, let Obama make a fool of himself. Liberals always do when in power because their theories are unrealistic.
indythinker on November 11, 2008 at 8:33 PM
No “honeymoon” period from this end.
Obama can be YOUR President, he damn sure ain’t MINE. As always, I’ll respect the OFFICE, but never the MAN, in this case.
If that offends anyone, then deal with it.
irongrampa on November 11, 2008 at 8:37 PM
After 4 years of ObaMarxist, that will be assured.
csdeven on November 11, 2008 at 8:37 PM
What’s about to happen under the Obama Administration is unavoidable. We’re going to lose a lot of great American companies, we will be the victims of terrorists, and our standing in the world will be badly harmed. The size of the government is going to inflate to an incredible degree. Taxes are going up and the money will be wasted.
What I’m saying is start planning now for what we do to them in 2013 or 2017 when we take power again.
Number one on the list: cut off all the liberal colleges and ending federal guarantees for student aid.
Number two on the list: reduce federal income taxes to a flat 10%.
Number three: privatize Social Security (what’s left of it)
etc…
indythinker on November 11, 2008 at 8:38 PM
We don’t want unify the party…we want to purge it…
And if the running shoe fits, take a few laps and get some oxygen in your blood and FIGHT!
jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 8:43 PM
You don’t need any help from me to show that you are myopic, intolerant of the moderates (whose votes the party does need)and generally naive about what getting a majority back will require.
Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 8:44 PM
Y-not at 8:13 PM is dead on right about the precursors of totalitarian rule. Obama is consciously devleoping a cult of personality that is a feature of far left authoritarian socialist government.
In realistically appraising what we are dealing with and in regaining our bearings, however, I do have a concern that we not engage in the blame game about the last election. We can reject Noonan, Brooks, etc. politely in terms of where the GOP should go in the future, while realizing that no Republican could have won this electoral year. My own view is that John McCain did much better than anyone else would have done. Some conservative commentators are just flat wrong in saying that the Republicans were incompetent in getting across the message. John McCain did more than anyone else could have. In a normal year, he would have won. It was the circumstances of this election that threw everything off.
Another way of putting the problem is that there were five “headwinds” blowing that collectively were prohibitive to a McCain win: (1) the financial meltdown that caused economic anxieties that have traditionally favored the Democrats and certainly favored the Democrats as the party out of power (even though the Democrats were culpable in being responsible for the subprime mortgage “market”); (2) the financial bailout, which muddied the waters of what was a fairly Reaganesque economic message delivered by John McCain and Sarah Palin on the campaign trail; (3) the unpopularity of George W. Bush, which was in good part self inflicted because he did not get into the bully pulpit to take on unceasing left wing attacks; (4) the media bias, which amounted to day-in, day-out propaganda that reinforced the false message of Obama that he will cut taxes (no, he won’t) and that dulled the senses of people to what were the radical associations in Obama’s history; and (5) Obama had a ton of money that he freely spent without the constraint that McCain had in the public financing system. As a result, independents and centrists voted for Obama. In more normal circumstances, that would not have happened.
So, look realistically at why the electorate did what it did and then plan for how we can take the future.
Phil Byler on November 11, 2008 at 8:45 PM
Purge it? and you are worried about a Marxist administration from the Obamacons? good luck winning an election with 30 million votes…
Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 8:45 PM
Good stuff.
We need fanatics, I agree.
We have all the high brow go along get along people we can stomach in our once great party. Where the hell is Lee Atwater when you need him.
BTW check out Frontline on PBS tonight for the Lee Atwater docu(i’m sure it is going to be fair and balanced)
kangjie on November 11, 2008 at 8:47 PM
Are you the cousin of Manlyrash because you “just know” those things will happen. The fact is you have no idea only an opinion. What you want is some kind of perverted punishment “do to them when we take power again”. I’d be more impressed if you could frame your ideas in words that show how those help all Americans.
Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 8:48 PM
I think the 2006 and 2008 election results overwhelmingly disprove that theory. Do you want the adults or the kids to run the party?
Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 8:50 PM
Regan was a great example… most libs and moderates I know really live there lives like conservatives…but still vote for the wrong side…amazing!
jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 8:52 PM
theretheirjerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 8:54 PM
That means that as a party we do a lousy job of getting the message out to people. There are enough smart people who can articulate the message in a persuasive way but when you have people running around with ODS the credibility of those more reasonable conservatives is damaged.
Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 8:55 PM
Your argument is based on correlation and not causality. You might as well be arguing that eating ice cream is linked to drownings and homicide (hot weather is a mediator that causes increases in all three activities). Show me some actual evidence that what you are saying is true and I might believe you.
davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 8:56 PM
It isn’t conservatives job to go toward the RINO’s. It’s our job to convince them that supporting a more conservative agenda is good for the party.
McCain is an example of conservatives supporting a moderate left leaning RINO. Reagan is an example of a conservative convincing moderates from both sides to support him.
McCain assumed that all conservatives would support him out of default because ChimpyMacFannieMae was the worst person to ever run for president. He thought wrong and he was punished for it. Unfortunately so was the rest of the country.
McCain needs to be pilloried, excoriated, and any other form of humiliation we can heap upon him to send a message to the rest of the RINO’s that they need to get in line or get out.
csdeven on November 11, 2008 at 8:58 PM
Right back at you in regards to your “(more useful than not)” claim. You have nothing to base such an irresponsible statement on. Correlation tracks closely and until you can prove there is no connection I stand on that statement.
Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 8:58 PM
The knight in shining armor has entered the building.
Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:01 PM
The ODS will subside and actually is pretty minimal. If a year from now it is half the BDS or PDS I will then worry.
Jamson64 on November 11, 2008 at 9:04 PM
On your first point, I don’t disagree…but by reasonable do you mean moderate? If so, on that point you are wrong.
We can’t beat them by being like them…this election is a case in point. look who we put up…It would have been a real rout if not for Palin. Regan appealed to the conservative in all of us and espcially them.
jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 9:08 PM
I’ll tell you what sports fans, if a war of the magnitude we’ve been fighting wasn’t enough to stoke the fires of party cooperation for more than a week after 9-11 then this financial crisis isn’t enough for me to have to kiss these guys asses and act like everything is peachy keen now. Not in the idiotic refrain of “moving the country forward”.
You go Hawkdriver! I will do what I can to fight every idiotic waste of taxpayer dollars and will continue to voice my opinions to congress regarding Obama’s lack of a moral compass in his “mandates”. I will also be just as petty and small as I can be when I tell every fool who voted for him: “I told you so”
anniekc on November 11, 2008 at 9:09 PM
First, your response doesn’t make logical sense. My argument was not based on a correlational analysis, it was based on a logical assumption derived, in large part, from my understanding of how attitude strength leads to behavior and how “going negative” or getting very aggressive politically generally leads to gains in support that are greater than any losses in support. If you don’t believe me you can go to Googlescholar or PsycINFO or the APSA equivalent and check for yourself. Also, saying I’m guilty of not providing actual evidence as your reason for not providing actual evidence doesn’t make sense either. How am I “irresponsible”? Making assumptions about my level of knowledge or motivations makes you look foolish.
davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 9:11 PM
Obama’s nothing to worry about…well unless you are concerned about National Defense, Spending, Taxes. Gun Rights, and the integrity of the Constitution.
Jamson64 on November 11, 2008 at 9:12 PM
We “beat them” by getting more of the Hispanics, blacks, Asians and others into the party. That will only be done by appealing to their mind and common sense. It will also require conservatives to actually welcome those who may only be 70% in agreement without dismissing them with names and scorn. Kind of like Reagan did….
Why join a cause if you see that you will be treated like the ugly stepchild?
Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:13 PM
Thanks for all the insults, jackass. Sorry it stings for you to make incorrect assumptions about me, and that you haven’t the nuts to admit it.
As for what the party needs, last I checked, McCain pandered only the moderates, and not to the conservatives this election cycle. So tell me how that worked out for us, slick.
MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 9:14 PM
Well said. Very well said.
MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 9:15 PM
Just go ahead and paste your resume into your next post. Know you are dying to. I speak in plain words. You didn’t present proof, only opinions. See I did it in one sentence. But go ahead and fire off another manifesto that will be scrolled by quickly.
Bradky on November 11, 2008 at 9:15 PM
I agree, Ed, in that we need to argue issues as much as possible. But, we also have to call them on their own vile and insulting statements and.or innuendo whenever they occur.
And, while Obama and nazism may be a bit of a stretch-and let’s hope it stays that way!-he does advocate his civil national security force, and has demonstrated a propensity to unleash his own personal brownshirts to shout down, jam telephone lines and e-mail, and otherwise silence any critics or those persons who would try to reveal inconvenient truths from Obama’s past. Even now he is building an e-mail database to presumably use to issue action alerts to his supporters-millions of them; in order to pressure any politicians, or other societal leaders, that get in the way of his agenda…
So, while civility is the order of the day, so is vigilance. I know that you have percieved Obama as a canny and ambitious, but basically good, politician. But, he can also be percieved as striving for power, “by whatever means necessary…” Obama’s proven that he’ll employ strongarm tactics by loyal volunteers to intimidate his opposition. While this is a far cry from Gestapo, it is not so far from brownshirts; and that’s the last thing a free nation like ours needs…
RocketmanBob on November 11, 2008 at 9:15 PM
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