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The onset of ODS

posted at 10:50 am on November 11, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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For the past seven-plus years, the Left has suffered from Bush Derangement Syndrome.  Well, actually, the rest of us have suffered from their embrace of BDS, which one might think would inoculate us from any related maladies.  As Jake Tapper notes, though, the onset of Obama Derangement Syndrome might prove that wrong:

We all remember “Bush derangement syndrome” — defined by Charles Krauthammer as “the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency — nay — the very existence of George W. Bush.”

We already need a name for the reverse disorder.

Rep. Paul Broun, R-Georgia, recently said that he fears President-elect Obama may create a security force akin to the Gestapo to impose a Marxist dictatorship.

“It may sound a bit crazy and off base, but the thing is, he’s the one who proposed this national security force,” Broun told The Associated Press. “I’m just trying to bring attention to the fact that we may – may not, I hope not – but we may have a problem with that type of philosophy of radical socialism or Marxism.”

Broun refers to this portion of a speech Obama gave in July in Colorado. The media dropped two sentences from its reporting of the speech, which set off critics when World Net Daily reported it:

We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.

At the time, Obama’s supporters claimed that he meant the Peace Corps and other volunteer organizations. That seems a stretch, but so does Broun’s interpretation of it. As I wrote at the time, the nation already has a number of non-military national security forces, including the FBI, ICE, Border Patrol, and so on. If we want to fund that better, many conservatives would agree, but not funding it to the same extent as the military. In the context of Obama’s remarks above, though, he fairly clearly meant to at least include a volunteer force in outreach within and outside the US as some sort of Department of Peace-like indirect boost to national security.

Nothing in that speech hints at a Gestapo-like organization at all. I’d agree that we have to remain vigilant at all times to ensure that the government doesn’t try to impose such a regime upon us, but this is an extremely thin reed to grasp for such a conclusion. Although I supported a freer hand at the NSA in monitoring communications with one end in the US for possible terrorist activities given the dangers we face in this era, it’s far easier for the government to turn that into a Gestapo than what Obama proposed.  That’s why I understood the Left’s opposition to it (as well as a small minority of conservatives) and thought reasonable safeguards against potential abuse were appropriate, as the eventual compromise in Congress provided.

If we plan to offer a rational alternative to the coming debacle of the next two years, then we’d better stick to facts and eschew hyperbole.  We need to oppose the reality of the radical agenda proposed by Obama and the Democratic majorities in Congress, not fantasies spun out of context-free snippets of speeches.  The more critics invoke Hitler and Stalin instead of Jimmy Carter and Lyndon Johnson, the better the reality of Obama, Reid, and Pelosi will seem in 2010.

Addendum: Also, can we please get rid of this canard?

“We can’t be lulled into complacency,” Broun said. “You have to remember that Adolf Hitler was elected in a democratic Germany. I’m not comparing him to Adolf Hitler. What I’m saying is there is the potential.”

No, he wasn’t.  Hitler was never elected to any office.  He became Chancellor because of a deal struck between political factions warring with each other in the twilight of Weimar Germany, appointed to the position by President von Hindenburg.  The Nazis never even won a majority in the Reichstag, and in fact lost seats in the last free elections before Hitler became Chancellor.  Unlike in most parliamentary systems, the executive in Germany did not need to hold a seat in the Reichstag.  The Weimar system never had the support of the German people, and the reversion to strong-man rule was almost inevitable.

And unlike Germany, we will get free elections in two years.  If we want to win majorities back, we’ll need to stop invoking Nazis at every turn.

Update: I’m going to add this here rather than reposting it every 50 comments or so in the thread.  Nothing in this post says we should refrain from criticizing Obama.  I’m just arguing that we have to stick to the facts rather than screeching historically inaccurate references to Nazis every time we disagree with Obama.  No one will have any credibility left if we all give into the impulse to act like the Kos Kiddies for the next two years.


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For the record: I admire and trust Ed Morrissey and consider soberly everything he has to say.

davidk on November 11, 2008 at 3:52 PM

MadisonConservative, you once again dishonest hack, you know I was making a correction of your post, and pointing out that I called you a coward as well. In fact, in my correction of your post, I bolded the word you.

Christoph on November 11, 2008 at 3:50 PM

Incredibly arrogant? Check. Attacks on vocabulary and grammar? Check. Corrections galore? Check.

College professor. Color me unimpressed.

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 3:57 PM

Emphasis added as needed.

Nothing in this post says we should refrain from criticizing Obama. I’m just arguing that we have to stick to the facts rather than screeching historically inaccurate references to Nazis every time we disagree with Obama. No one will have any credibility left if we all give into the impulse to ack like the Kos Kiddies for the next two years.

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 4:00 PM

Unlike BDS, we have a REAL concern for Obama. His “associates” will keep the CIA busy for years.

Besides, this is still the good ol’ USA. I can say what I want….I can think what I want….and I don’t need to apologize for it.

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:01 PM

What an allegory for the Republican Party this is.

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 4:03 PM

How’s it going, Madison?

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:04 PM

The 64,000 dollar question.

davidk on November 11, 2008 at 3:49 PM

Why 64k?

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:05 PM

How’s it going, Madison?

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:04 PM

Swimmingly would be an interesting term for it. You?

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 4:06 PM

Why 64k?

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:05 PM

Know your 1950s pop culture!

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 4:07 PM

How’s it going, Madison?

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:04 PM
Swimmingly would be an interesting term for it. You?

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 4:06 PM

I understand there has been a lot of farting coming from under a bridge….

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:08 PM

Do you even know what the Fairness Doctrine is?

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 2:54 PM
I can’t speak for that poster, but it’s true that the Fairness Doctrine would kill conservative talk radio. Very few have credibly argued otherwise.

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 3:01 PM

Ok,I’ll ask again,what is the Fairness Doctrine and where does it say it wil “kill conservative talk radio”. That is spin,propaganda and outright BS being spewed by people like Rush,Hannity and others

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:08 PM

briar patch

The Race Card on November 11, 2008 at 4:08 PM

tar baby

The Race Card on November 11, 2008 at 4:09 PM

If When the “civilian national security force” is established and armed, Obama could enforce a police state, declare martial law and cancel all future elections.

Fixed it.

angryed on November 11, 2008 at 4:11 PM

Know your 1950s pop culture!

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 4:07 PM

1950s. Wow. Thanks, Madison. Though these days that wouldn’t even be enough to get someone a Bachelor degree.

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:11 PM

I understand there has been a lot of farting coming from under a bridge….

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:08 PM

That fellow Godwin has been stirring them up all day.

And what the hell is Race Card posting?

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 4:11 PM

Ok,I’ll ask again,what is the Fairness Doctrine and where does it say it wil “kill conservative talk radio”. That is spin,propaganda and outright BS being spewed by people like Rush,Hannity and others

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:08 PM

Dude..seriously, you can’t be that naive.

angryed on November 11, 2008 at 4:12 PM

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 3:34 PM

Ah yes, I believe it was the Apostle Paul who said “I beseech thee, go place thy head beneath a millstone and maketh ‘flour.’”

Between this and your awarding of *retard prizes*, how could I have even questioned your “spirituality?”

TMK on November 11, 2008 at 4:12 PM

No, he wasn’t. Hitler was never elected to any office. He became Chancellor because of a deal struck between political factions warring with each other in the twilight of Weimar Germany, appointed to the position by President von Hindenburg. The Nazis never even won a majority in the Reichstag, and in fact lost seats in the last free elections before Hitler became Chancellor. Unlike in most parliamentary systems, the executive in Germany did not need to hold a seat in the Reichstag. The Weimar system never had the support of the German people, and the reversion to strong-man rule was almost inevitable.

Yep, pretty much what I said last night in the Headlines post. Thanks, Ed. This stuff has to be nipped in the bud right off the bat. All this rhetoric did for the left was give Bush two terms.

Krydor on November 11, 2008 at 4:12 PM

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:08 PM

You want to know what the Fairness Doctrine is?

It was a policy of the FCC that required that radio stations give equal time to each side of contraversial issues. It did kill talk radio because it was too hard to enact, so we got a lot of shows about making the perfect Bundt cake. Ronnie did away with it.
My senator, a brain dead f’tard wants it re-enacted, as does Chuckie Schumer.

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:12 PM

1950s. Wow. Thanks, Madison. Though these days that wouldn’t even be enough to get someone a Bachelor degree.

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:11 PM

Depends if you can slog it through state universities. I graduated with only about half that to pay. I sure as hell wouldn’t turn down such a sum.

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 4:14 PM

I understand there has been a lot of farting coming from under a bridge….

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:08 PM
That fellow Godwin has been stirring them up all day.

And what the hell is Race Card posting?

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 4:11 PM

You never know with the race card.

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:14 PM

“You have to remember that Adolf Hitler was elected in a democratic Germany. I’m not comparing him to Adolf Hitler. What I’m saying is there is the potential.”

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” — Santayana

* Speeches in stadiums filled with mesmerized, adoring audiences – Check
* An uninspiring background before meteoric rise – Check
* Creates his own new symbols of power – Check
* Associates with racists, hatemongers and violent radicals – Check
* believes in redistributing the wealth – Check
* A propaganda machine willing to show him only in the best possible light – Check
* Uses, “glorious leader” style Agitprop posters common in totalitarian nations – Check (see German campaign poster for example)
* Wants Secret Police force – Check
* Somebody powerful people think they can control – Check
* Often dismissed as a light-weight by his opponents – Check
* Seeks to replace God with the State – Check
* People adopting his name as their own – Check
* Inspires adoration art – Check
* Appropriates symbols of past German glory – Check
* Never plans on giving up power – Check (Obama to be president for the next “eight to 10 years”)
* A narcissistic megalomaniac – Check
* Brazenly Takes credit for other people’s accomplishments – Check
* Wants to build “youth” movement through Universal National State service – Check
* Acts as if in power before he is – Check
* Some followers believe him to be divine – Check
* Worshiped and aided greatly by the media – Check
* Has his own salute – Check
* Has thuggish supporters intimdating political opponents – Check
* Using the power of the State to silence critics – Check
* Songs written to glorify him performed by children – Check

TheBigOldDog on November 10, 2008 at 9:03 PM

TMK on November 11, 2008 at 4:14 PM

Ok,I’ll ask again,what is the Fairness Doctrine and where does it say it wil “kill conservative talk radio”. That is spin,propaganda and outright BS being spewed by people like Rush,Hannity and others

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:08 PM

You gotta read the fine print. At the bottom it says, “this will kill conservative talk radio.”

Just think of it this way, do you believe Olberman would be successful if he had Hannity on as a co-host? Do you think liberals would watch him then? None of them watch Hannity and Colmes now.

The same is true of talk radio. When I listen, I want to hear Laura Ingraham, not Randi Rhodes.

Plus, it’s the parts they don’t talk about, like who gets to define what is “fair” and what isn’t? Who decides what constitutes a talking point for the other side?

No one is arguing that the Fairness Doctrine would force talk radio to close shop. The argument is that it would make those shows unprofitable which would then cause them to close shop.

There’s a reason that AM radio was dying before the Fairness Doctrine was dropped.

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:15 PM

Ah yes, I believe it was the Apostle Paul who said “I beseech thee, go place thy head beneath a millstone and maketh ‘flour.’”

TMK on November 11, 2008 at 4:12 PM

What did John, George, and Ringo have to say?

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 4:16 PM

why does the majority of the people on this site have a problem with Ed or Allahpundit? they may be conservative but at least they’re fair,not like the lunatic fringe of the GOP who care about nothing more that how dear ol’ Sara isn’t getting a fair shake in the media. You better listen to what people like Newt is saying now,learn from your mistakes and try to correct them,if not your going to be reduced to a regional party with nothing more that a bunch of radicals that have your support.

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:16 PM

TMK on November 11, 2008 at 4:14 PM

Gee, thanks. Who needs email chain letters when you can just paste what others have already pasted 50 times?

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 4:17 PM

How is it derangement if we’re only pointing to the policy statements the man has actually made. He’s well defined as a Marxist.

Sign of the Dollar on November 11, 2008 at 4:17 PM

Where is this nonesene about Hitler never winning?

On July 31, 1932,the nazi party won 230 seats in the Reichstag. It was the strongest party in a multi-party election. It wasn’t a majority, but there rarely are majorities in parliamentary democracies with multiple parties.

230 seats was the equivalent of Dems getting 58 Senate seats. Not quite a landslide, but pretty close.

angryed on November 11, 2008 at 4:18 PM

why does the majority of the people on this site have a problem with Ed or Allahpundit?

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:16 PM

They don’t. They’re just louder. Sort of like Code Pinkers and the World Can’t Wait lemmings.

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 4:18 PM

Because I’m tired of listening to these mealy-mouthed moderates that tell us to sit down and shut up and don’t rock the boat. This election was the end of sitting down and shutting up. I don’t want to go along to get along. The left has its loonies, we have our patriots.
We will not be silent anymore. We will purge our party of those that do not share our values and ideals. We will take over this boat and sail it to the shore. We are tired of being in the wilderness. Our eyes are open now and we will fight the good fight. I will not go silently into the night. I will fight. I will take my pitchfork and torch and march. I will be silent no more.

That’s why.

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:19 PM

I graduated with only about half that to pay. I sure as hell wouldn’t turn down such a sum.

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 4:14 PM

Certainly not. Anyone who would is either too rich to care or too stupid to understand what money is.

And you’re right. State colleges seems to take less than 30k, which is the debt my husband brought into our marriage. I was lucky enough to get mine paid for, partially with scholarships but mostly with family.

Still, I’m looking at the program through the lense of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? I’m assuming that program was once considered the same, i.e., a game show that can change a person’s life. 64k would be nice, but it wouldn’t change my life.

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:21 PM

You gotta read the fine print. At the bottom it says, “this will kill conservative talk radio.”

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:15 PM

If Rush,Hannity and the rest of them are as sucessful as they say they are,then it shouldn’t matter if the Fairness Doctrine is reinstated. Let them prove themselves. Sounds like to me they’re afraid of a different point of view or someone who can challenge them directly.

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:23 PM

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:16 PM

Comments like yours don’t help them any.

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:24 PM

What did John, George, and Ringo have to say?

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 4:16 PM

“All the lonely people, where do they all come from? / All the lonely people, where do they all belong? / In a blender, that’s where. Coo coo, kachoo, retards.”

TMK on November 11, 2008 at 4:25 PM

If Rush,Hannity and the rest of them are as sucessful as they say they are,then it shouldn’t matter if the Fairness Doctrine is reinstated. Let them prove themselves. Sounds like to me they’re afraid of a different point of view or someone who can challenge them directly.

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:23 PM

Let’s start with Hollywood then. If it’s really as good as they believe it is, let’s get some conservative thought in there and see how they do. Same with music and television.

No offense intended, Mike, but you can’t completely dismantle a man’s show then ask him to prove himself by your new standards. It’s illogical.

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:25 PM

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:15 PM

Thamks to Rush!

driver on November 11, 2008 at 4:25 PM

If Rush,Hannity and the rest of them are as sucessful as they say they are,then it shouldn’t matter if the Fairness Doctrine is reinstated. Let them prove themselves. Sounds like to me they’re afraid of a different point of view or someone who can challenge them directly.

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:23 PM

Well, then why not keep it like it is? It has been proven, thru Air America, NPR, and various liberal talk radio that no one wants to listen to them.
It is the radio station owners that don’t want to deal with having to make sure there is equal time. They would rather take all of it off then deal with it.

Why are you so horny for the fairness doctrine?

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:26 PM

The never-ending string of articles written by conservatives telling those of us who didn’t vote for Obama to get over it is becoming even more annoying than the bleating of his sheep wanting us to join hands and sign peace songs with them.

I don’t intend to be “over it” for at least four years. That isn’t just anger at Obama and his happy crowd of socialists but also at the so-called GOP leadership that demanded we nominate John McCain for office because of the draw he was going to have with moderate Democrats. It of course was a strategy that failed miserably because Republicans running as Democrats are never going to win against Democrats running as Democrats- no matter how inexperienced or unfit for office.

To survive the GOP needs to go into rehab and rid itself of all the morons who decided the party needs to be a Democrat-lite alternative instead of a fully committed party for conservatives. John McCain and those of his ilk are the cancer not the cure.

highhopes on November 11, 2008 at 4:27 PM

Why are you so horny for the fairness doctrine?

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:26 PM

why are you afraid of it?

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:27 PM

The worst thing to do to the Messi-uh is to hold him to his own promises. They are why people voted for him, no matter how unrealistic.

Those promises will sour the general voting populace on Obama and his socialism when he bankrupts us in order to fulfill them, or he will sour his support with his base if he runs to the “middle” to avoid or soften them.

If he fails to follow through on them, especially the “gimmies” to the general populace like tax “cuts”, he’ll tank himself. A lot of his supporters are seriously expecting checks in the mail, and Obama could never fulfill that.

Easy to say you’re a Messi-uh until a parent brings you their sick kid to heal. “It’s above my pay grade” isn’t the response that parent will want to hear.

Saltyron on November 11, 2008 at 4:28 PM

That is how I see it. Finally, a Gov. speaks up. And it is actually on MSM. What a shock…

sheebe on November 11, 2008 at 11:48 AM

What’s shocking about the mainstream media reporting that a conservative making an ass of himself in public?

John from WuzzaDem on November 11, 2008 at 4:28 PM

why are you afraid of it?

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:27 PM

We’ve been explaining. If you really want to know. You’ll read our responses.

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:29 PM

Coo coo, kachoo, retards.”

TMK on November 11, 2008 at 4:25 PM

Hmmm…something doesn’t seem right, there.

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 4:31 PM

“conservative is making…”

Sheesh.

John from WuzzaDem on November 11, 2008 at 4:33 PM

If Rush,Hannity and the rest of them are as sucessful as they say they are,then it shouldn’t matter if the Fairness Doctrine is reinstated. Let them prove themselves. Sounds like to me they’re afraid of a different point of view or someone who can challenge them directly.

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:23 PM

sigh.

First off, the fairness doctrine only affects transmited media… not cable. Thus RADIO would be affected, Broadcast TV would be affected, but not anything carreid on cable.

It then puts the Government in the place of being a ref who decides what is fair and balanced. You must not only give opposing viewpoints equal time, the government decides if those opposing viewpoints are “equal” or not.

Conservative talk radio is currently popular enough to be economicly feasible for radio stations. FORCING them to also carry UNPOPULAR shows to balance out the popular shows will make the whole thing lose money.

If you don’t believe me, take a look at the history of Air America.

So, because the Fairness doctrine will force radio stations (who are commercial entities) to carry unpopular shows, they will be forced to get rid of popular shows.

Yes, it would kill talk radio, while doing nothing to the UNFAIR and biased Cable News networks carried on TV.

Romeo13 on November 11, 2008 at 4:35 PM

We’ve been explaining. If you really want to know. You’ll read our responses.

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:29 PM

saying that it will “kill conservative talk radio” is not a explaination. Rush and Hannity act like it’s their “god-given right” to AM radio. They believe it belongs to them and people like them and nobody else. They are not going to be driven out of business if the Fairness Doctrine comes is reinstated.

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:36 PM

You’re absolutely right. Buffet didn’t make his millions through professional investment, he made it through selling lemonade on the side of US-51.

But then, you’ve already made up your mind what I am, just some “populist real America type”. Interesting.

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 2:28 PM

Sorry to bother you with facts again, but earning one’s living through investing does not make one an “investment banker.” Working for an investment bank performing investment banking services makes on an investment banker. Investment bankers earn a six-figure salary, not an eleven-figure fortune. Warren Buffet is simply an investor, i.e. a capitalist.

Don’t take the correction personally. You might not be the “populist real America type” yet, but your comment seemed to represent a step in that direction. In a typical Hot Air thread, you’re one of the few persons arguing on the intelligent side of the debate. A bit more consistency is all I ask of you.

hicsuget on November 11, 2008 at 4:37 PM

Why are you so horny for the fairness doctrine?

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:26 PM

why are you afraid of it?

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:27 PM

I asked you first.

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:38 PM

saying that it will “kill conservative talk radio” is not a explaination. Rush and Hannity act like it’s their “god-given right” to AM radio. They believe it belongs to them and people like them and nobody else. They are not going to be driven out of business if the Fairness Doctrine comes is reinstated.

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:36 PM

I’ve done far more than that. And where do you get this idea that they believe it belongs to them? Air America had space there. It just sucked and thus failed, miserably, taking money from children on the way down.

Seriously, read what we’ve actually written or don’t bother with these responses.

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:39 PM

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:27 PM

Radio, like everything else, is market-driven. The reason Air America has gone in the tank is because no one wants to here a bunch of liberals whine and run down America 24 hours a day. Re-instating the Fairness Doctrine will sink AM Radio faster than the Titanic. I was a Radio News Director in college from ‘78-’0. AM radio was dying a slow death then. Conservative Talk Radio saved the AM Band.

The Fairness Doctrine would try to force people to listen to something that they do not want to. The AM market would dry up.

kingsjester on November 11, 2008 at 4:40 PM

They believe it belongs to them and people like them and nobody else.

They’re right. That’s why Air America died. That’s why even in the liberal city of Madison, WIBA-AM has plenty of ad revenue and 92.1 “Turn Left” almost got turned into a sports 24/7 station, because nobody was listening to people fantasize about Bush getting shot.

They are not going to be driven out of business if the Fairness Doctrine comes is reinstated.

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:36 PM

…yeah they will. If half of them are no longer able to have a radio show because their time slot is given to a left-wing station, they’re out of business. Then the listening figures and ad revenues drop by half for the radio stations. Basic economics. If you force a business to take away half of the stock that sells and replace it with stock that nobody buys, the store suffers, and probably goes out of business.

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 4:40 PM

hicsuget on November 11, 2008 at 4:37 PM

It sounds as though you’re merely arguing semantics.

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:40 PM

saying that it will “kill conservative talk radio” is not a explaination. Rush and Hannity act like it’s their “god-given right” to AM radio. They believe it belongs to them and people like them and nobody else. They are not going to be driven out of business if the Fairness Doctrine comes is reinstated.

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:36 PM

It’s this thing called RATINGS and MONEY! You get neither with liberal talk shows.

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:43 PM

It’s this thing called RATINGS and MONEY! You get neither with liberal talk shows.

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:43 PM

Oh, that’s not true. The liberals had money. They just had to take it from sick children.

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:43 PM

Hornet, Madison, Romeo, Esthier –

great minds…you know the rest.

kingsjester on November 11, 2008 at 4:43 PM

I think Hitler analogies are overblown and make the accuser look unbalanced. Granted, they apply better to Obama than they ever did to Bush. But that’s not really saying much.

I’d be the last to tell anyone, though, to “relax.” The office of the presidency is very powerful. There’s room for a lot of abuse or power. We depend on the president being a man of good character, and I’ve yet to be convinced that Obama is that.

As for the birth certificate, I think the reasonable question is to ask, why won’t he release it? Is he hiding something? Maybe not, but as long as he refuses to let anyone see it such questions are valid.

I truly hope Obama steers a conservative course, but I’d have to be dense to expect it. There is a very good chance, though, that he will decide to act as a moderate to further his chances of re-election, and act as somewhat of a brake on an out-of-control Democratic Congress.

It could happen. But I’d be a little surprised if it did.

Legitimate warnings against rhetorical overreach aside, Obama takes office in the middle of the Acorn voter-fraud scandal and the Tony Rezko scandal, and has well-known associations with radicals. Most of us would find all these morally objectionable. They don’t speak well to his character.

And I still find the personality cult around him to be very creepy.

Obama doesn’t have to be a Hitler for people to be legitimately concerned.

tom on November 11, 2008 at 4:44 PM

It’s this thing called RATINGS and MONEY! You get neither with liberal talk shows.

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:43 PM
Oh, that’s not true. The liberals had money. They just had to take it from sick children.

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:43 PM

I didn’t mean money from the government teet. I meant from advertising….

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:44 PM

Why are you so horny for the fairness doctrine?

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:26 PM

why are you afraid of it?

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:27 PM
I asked you first.

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:38 PM

I’m waiting……

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:46 PM

HornetSting –

I hear crickets…

kingsjester on November 11, 2008 at 4:48 PM

I meant from advertising….

HornetSting on November 11, 2008 at 4:44 PM

You don’t think Rhodes is the perfect poster girl for AA?

I can see it now…

Ever get so drunk that your friends thought you were assaulted by crazed Rightwinger Nazis as they fought tirelessly on your behalf to see the perpetrators brought to justice by slandering half the United States in your name?

When you’re ready for help, we’re here.

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:49 PM

At the time, Obama’s supporters claimed that he meant the Peace Corps and other volunteer organizations. That seems a stretch, but so does Broun’s interpretation of it. As I wrote at the time, the nation already has a number of non-military national security forces, including the FBI, ICE, Border Patrol, and so on. If we want to fund that better, many conservatives would agree, but not funding it to the same extent as the military. In the context of Obama’s remarks above, though, he fairly clearly meant to at least include a volunteer force in outreach within and outside the US as some sort of Department of Peace-like indirect boost to national security.

Obama’s Civilian Military Security Force is a serious, expensive, precedent-shattering proposal that, under normal circumstances, would invite some serious scrutiny. But because Obama is who he is, and the MSM wants him to succeed more than they care about professionalism, it was not the topic of conversation anywhere except in conservative-dominated media. Just this morning, KSFO’s Lee Rodgers played the sound byte for Wall Street Journal contributor Pete duPont and duPont had never heard it before.

While I appreciate your even-handedness, Ed, you have to consider the fact that Obama has been elected by promising “change” (and days before the election, “fundamental transformation”) that he has taken great pains NOT to clearly define. This is a political talent I have never perceived in four decades of watching campaigns — nobody has been elected in my lifetime being so vague about his plans for the nation, and in the case of Obama, those plans are unknown but spoken of as broad and wide.

So, Ed, where can we go to find indication of what “change” is? If we delve into his philosophical background before his first electoral victory, what do we find? Revolutionary socialists. That’s something you could NOT credibly say about Kerry, Gore, Clinton, Dukakis, Mondale, Carter, Johnson, Kennedy, Truman, FDR, or even McGovern! Obama is an entirely new animal, and while maybe there have been too many cries of “WOLF” when it comes to leftists in the Oval Office, you’re nearsighted if you look at whatever Obama is and see a lamb.

L.N. Smithee on November 11, 2008 at 4:52 PM

We could only be so lucky if he does crazy leftist thing while in office. I’m not worryed about this to much. That would be our opening for an ass kicking in 2010 and 2012.
This is the guy who voted present a billion times and seems to be rehiring Clinton retreads at an alarming rate. He is trying to comfort the masses

The real fear is that he will be succesful and manage to take credit for any successes of the economic rebound and pass off any blame during the next four years to the bush admin.
Iraq turns out fine and we don’t have any terroist attacks in the next four years.
Then the republican have a real problem as a permant realignment is in the making.

One of the biggest groups of republican voters is whites over 65 +. These people are dying off at an alarming rate and being replaced by former hippies. I think Ayers is in his 60’s now.
We are not growing any new conservatives. We need to make more somehow or import them.

I’m hoping some of you guys are right that he takes our guns away or starts a gestpo or some other stupid left wing thing but I just don’t see him doing it.
As rush sais today he could bomb a small town in France and get away with it even with the code pinko’s

kangjie on November 11, 2008 at 4:52 PM

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:15 PM

LMFAO!

driver on November 11, 2008 at 4:54 PM

I, for one, am willing to give the guy a chance, so I agree with Ed. I do question this:

“No one will have any credibility left if we all give into the impulse to ack like the Kos Kiddies for the next two years…”

While in theory, I agree, but the reality is that Kos Kids BDS seems to have worked, with a lot of help by the drive-by media.

I’m sick the the conservative pundits telling me what they “think.” I want to hear more from Joe the Plumber cause he’s the one speaking for me.

SoldiersMom on November 11, 2008 at 4:56 PM

While in theory, I agree, but the reality is that Kos Kids BDS seems to have worked, with a lot of help by the drive-by media.

SoldiersMom on November 11, 2008 at 4:56 PM

That’s the problem though. They had help from the MSM. We won’t.

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 4:59 PM

So, Ed, where can we go to find indication of what “change” is? If we delve into his philosophical background before his first electoral victory, what do we find? Revolutionary socialists. That’s something you could NOT credibly say about Kerry, Gore, Clinton, Dukakis, Mondale, Carter, Johnson, Kennedy, Truman, FDR, or even McGovern! Obama is an entirely new animal, and while maybe there have been too many cries of “WOLF” when it comes to leftists in the Oval Office, you’re nearsighted if you look at whatever Obama is and see a lamb.

+1

Christoph on November 11, 2008 at 5:01 PM

ODS means saying Obama is Hitler less than a week after the election.”

No one has said Obama is Hitler. We’ve said he’s dangerous and clearly shows signs given by other totalitarianism [sic] leaders and Marxists.

However, to the limited degree you have a point, it would be better to sound such an alarm a week after the election than after Obama has taken power and had time to implement much of his agenda… if we’re correct, would it not?

Christoph on November 11, 2008 at 3:11 PM

Bush “gave off signs” of other totalitarian leaders. He responded to a crisis by calling for unity and for more power to address the crisis. That is where the resemblance ended, except in the minds of those afflicted with BDS. Obama, like Hitler before him, breathes oxygen and eats vegetables. Sound the alarm!

Claims that Obama is a Marxist have no basis whatsoever in fact. Conservatives have never understood Marxism (which is probably a good thing; had they understood it, they might not have hated it enough to fight against it in the Cold War). Marxism is a specific set of historical and economic notions, most notably an materialistic (or atomistic, if you prefer), class-based, chiliastic, teleological view of human history. One who does not believe in dialectic materialism is not a Marxist. Obama is not a dialectic materialist, so therefore Obama is not a Marxist.

As to whether Obama is a socialist, of course he is! So were both Bushes and Richard Nixon. President Obama undoubtedly will be a more consistent socialist than was President W, but socializing the means of production is (regrettably) hardly an alien concept in American governance.

(It is also worth noting, as an aside, that a redistributionist policy is not necessarily a socialist policy. Socialism specifically refers to government ownership, de jure or de facto, of the means of production. Taking Bill Gates’ fortune away and giving it to the homeless is immoral and highly destructive, but it is not an act of socialism. By contrast, the Justice Department telling Microsoft how to run their business is an act of socialism.
Cf. von Mises, Socialism, Chapter I.)

hicsuget on November 11, 2008 at 5:05 PM

Um, sorry, Ed. Its not ODS to state facts about Obama’s association and friendship with anti-Israel/anti-semitic terrorists. It is not ODS to recall his past associations with J. Wright, Farrakhan, Ayers, Khalidi, Malley and others. It is not ODS to point out the fact that he has been talking to HAMAS, wants to divide Jerusalem, is willing to divide Israel, and wants to force Israel into a tenuous security situation by condemning the security fence. Yeah, its not ODS to call that mofo an anti-semite, regardless of who he appoints to his administration. He’s a slimey Chicago political thug would would use any tool to get his agenda implemented. Including Jews.

Andy in Agoura Hills on November 11, 2008 at 5:08 PM

Andy in Agoura Hills on November 11, 2008 at 5:08 PM

*sigh* Read.

Nothing in this post says we should refrain from criticizing Obama. I’m just arguing that we have to stick to the facts rather than screeching historically inaccurate references to Nazis every time we disagree with Obama.

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 5:09 PM

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 5:09 PM

*sigh*

Do you see the word “Nazi” anywhere in my post?

Andy in Agoura Hills on November 11, 2008 at 5:11 PM

By contrast, the Justice Department telling Microsoft how to run their business is an act of socialism.
Cf. von Mises, Socialism, Chapter I.)

hicsuget on November 11, 2008 at 5:05 PM

So… with the CO2 Cap and trade system, which will use fines to limit what CO2 you can produce, and those fines and limits will be set by the Federal Government, they will be telling a LARGE portion of the economy what they can and can’t do.

Not to mention the Clout they will have with banks…

Not to mention the Cafe standards they forced on the Automobile industry…

Not to mention the lack of ability to drill for oil in this country…

Not to mention Barrak’s saying let them build coal plants, we’ll drive them into bankruptcy…

So, by your own definition, is not our current administration leaning Socialist, which Barry’s adminitration will take farther?

Romeo13 on November 11, 2008 at 5:14 PM

Do you see the word “Nazi” anywhere in my post?

Andy in Agoura Hills on November 11, 2008 at 5:11 PM

He’s not saying you suffer from ODS. He’s merely explaining Ed’s point, which is that no, it’s not ODS to speak the truth.

You’ve misunderstood Ed in your first post.

Esthier on November 11, 2008 at 5:14 PM

Do you see the word “Nazi” anywhere in my post?

Andy in Agoura Hills on November 11, 2008 at 5:11 PM

Do you see the names Ayers, Wright, Khalidi, Farrakhan, etc, or the words HAMAS, Jerusalem, Israel, etc. anywhere in Ed’s post?

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 5:16 PM

DcMike2K on November 11, 2008 at 4:36 PM

Stupid troll is stupid.

fossten on November 11, 2008 at 5:17 PM

hicsuget on November 11, 2008 at 5:05 PM

Sorry, missed your point in the middle, talking to my daughter… LOL…

We basicly aggree…

I don’t think we have a term for where this system is going yet…. its not true Socialism… it’s not Marxism although it shares a few traits and tactics…

I know…. lets just call it … Change?

Romeo13 on November 11, 2008 at 5:17 PM

He’s a slimey [sic] Chicago political thug would would use any tool to get his agenda implemented.
…. Yeah, its not ODS to call that mofo an anti-semite…

Obama’s “agenda” was to get himself elected president. That’s all. He’s an empty vessel into which leftists have projected their greatest hopes and into which conservatives have projected their worst fears.

He is a slimy Chicago politician, but the sliminess consisted mainly of cozying up to unsavory characters in exchange for campaign support. It is his “go-along-to-get-along” attitude vis-a-vis Bill Ayers & co. that everyone has been decrying, but that same attitude will probably lead him to govern from the center. Obama is not a man of evil principles; he is a man of no principles, and he will pragmatically side with the majority of the electorate whenever he can.

If your allegations of anti-Semitism on Obama’s part can be substantiated factually, rather than circumstantially, then it is not ODS to say so. I would argue, though, that in no event is it not ODS to refer to the President-elect as a “mofo.”

hicsuget on November 11, 2008 at 5:17 PM

So, by your own definition, is not our current administration leaning Socialist, which Barry’s adminitration will take farther?

Romeo13 on November 11, 2008 at 5:14 PM

I think that might have been his point:

As to whether Obama is a socialist, of course he is! So were both Bushes and Richard Nixon. President Obama undoubtedly will be a more consistent socialist than was President W, but socializing the means of production is (regrettably) hardly an alien concept in American governance.

CherokeeJack on November 11, 2008 at 5:17 PM

Romeo13 on November 11, 2008 at 5:17 PM

Spoke too soon, sorry.

CherokeeJack on November 11, 2008 at 5:18 PM

I don’t have time to read 6 pages of comments, so forgive me if I repeat what others have said.

Obama said what he said. It is not “derangement” on our part to be concerned about what he has in mind. Obama has not adequately addressed what he envisioned, and certainly when one talks about funding something to the level of our military, it is reasonable and not deranged for alarm bells to go off, particularly when you’re talking about someone who has surrounded himself with authoritarian leftists for most of his adult life (if not before).

Add the fact that his new Chief of Staff of the dual Israeli passports wants to emulate Israel and force our children into involuntary volunteerism, and we have much to be concerned about.

Yes, I realize that some states already do this. That does not make it any less a usurpation of parental rights, and obviously when one is talking about Universal Service on a federal level we’re in entirely different territory.

The indisputable fact is that Obama plans to deny educational funding to states who don’t comply with his vision of forced community service.

It is not deranged to react to this with outrage.

Buy Danish on November 11, 2008 at 5:22 PM

I’ve skipped a lot of posts, so this isn’t in reference to anyone in particular, but…

The evening of the election, my brother-in-law called and offered me a thousand bucks to start up hesnotmypresident.com,* but I turned him down, ’cause I’d vowed not to surrender to my inner moonbat. Sigh.

*Which, by the way, was available, but was bought up later that day, I see.

saint kansas on November 11, 2008 at 5:24 PM

Be very careful of what you say on the Internet; the Obama marxists already have in place computer programs that can highlight certain Obama words that can identify you as possible Obama enemies.

tocoloro on November 11, 2008 at 5:25 PM

So… with the CO2 Cap and trade system, which will use fines to limit what CO2 you can produce, and those fines and limits will be set by the Federal Government, they will be telling a LARGE portion of the economy what they can and can’t do.

Not to mention the Clout they will have with banks…

Not to mention the Cafe standards they forced on the Automobile industry…

Not to mention the lack of ability to drill for oil in this country…

Not to mention Barrak’s saying let them build coal plants, we’ll drive them into bankruptcy…

So, by your own definition, is not our current administration leaning Socialist, which Barry’s adminitration will take farther?

Romeo13 on November 11, 2008 at 5:14 PM

Not only is that implied by my own definitions, it is stated in the very post you are replying to! Cf:

As to whether Obama is a socialist, of course he is! So were both Bushes and Richard Nixon. President Obama undoubtedly will be a more consistent socialist than was President W, but socializing the means of production is (regrettably) hardly an alien concept in American governance.

hicsuget on November 11, 2008 at 5:05 PM

Yes, all of the specific policies you mention are socialist. That does not make them Marxist. Socialism existed long before Marx, and non-Marxian socialism existed contemporaneously with him. Marx had to call his dogma “scientific socialism” to distinguish it from the Christian socialism of Thomas Moore et al.

Also, it may be worth doing a bit of research to see how many of the specific policies you mention were also official McCain campaign promises. I had many reasons for not voting last Tuesday; Sarah Palin was only one among them.

hicsuget on November 11, 2008 at 5:25 PM

We not need to exxagerate our fears about Obama…he is indeed very dangerous because of his ideology…

We all know that….we do not need to make up conspiracies about this man…

Let us think soberly and be wise!

Albertanator on November 11, 2008 at 5:29 PM

Obama will not allow drilling so that we keep depending on many of our enemies for oil and eventually destroy Israel; this is one the orders given to Obama by the supreme communist council

tocoloro on November 11, 2008 at 5:35 PM

Obama’s “agenda” was to get himself elected president. That’s all. He’s an empty vessel into which leftists have projected their greatest hopes and into which conservatives have projected their worst fears.

He is a slimy Chicago politician, but the sliminess consisted mainly of cozying up to unsavory characters in exchange for campaign support. It is his “go-along-to-get-along” attitude vis-a-vis Bill Ayers & co. that everyone has been decrying, but that same attitude will probably lead him to govern from the center. Obama is not a man of evil principles; he is a man of no principles, and he will pragmatically side with the majority of the electorate whenever he can.

If your allegations of anti-Semitism on Obama’s part can be substantiated factually, rather than circumstantially, then it is not ODS to say so. I would argue, though, that in no event is it not ODS to refer to the President-elect as a “mofo.”

hicsuget on November 11, 2008 at 5:17 PM

There is a Talmudic aphorism that says: silence is agreement. I disagree that he has no principles. He, in fact, has evil principles. He is steeped and marinated in anti-semitic propaganda. And I, as a Jew, find him repulsively anti-semitic.

Andy in Agoura Hills on November 11, 2008 at 5:37 PM

It is not deranged to react to this with outrage.

Buy Danish on November 11, 2008 at 5:22 PM

That isn’t what Ed is saying. Notice that he said criticizing Obama doesn’t constitute ODS. What he’s warning against is all this alarmism about him being the next Stalin or something.

CherokeeJack on November 11, 2008 at 5:37 PM

Obama is not a dialectic materialist .. .
hicsuget on November 11, 2008 at 5:05 PM

What? Unless you want to dismiss Osamabamamesiah’s racism and white angst related to race as not being classless, you are way off base. And his message was marbled with eschatological undertones.

If “O” is not Marxist, then he is full blown communist, using Marxism as a stepping stone to communism.

Karl Marx posited that socialism would be achieved via class struggle and a proletarian revolution which represents the transitional stage between capitalism and communism.

davidk on November 11, 2008 at 5:37 PM

I recognize we still have free speech and the ability to print/write anything we choose. Having said that, I would like to express my feelings about one little word that gets used quite a bit on this blog, and it has nothing to do with politics. It’s the word – Retarded.

I doubt that the users of this word have family members or friends that have been diagnosed as mentally retarded. I do. And I am sure there are many here that do as well.

It is a tough word to hear or read because I know, first hand, how damaging it is to have someone you love who is mentally retarded hear or be called that word. The pain on their face is something you will never forget.

Emotions are high right now and I understand that but the mentally retarded are innocent and don’t deserve to be disparaged by that word.

Thank you

sherry on November 11, 2008 at 5:38 PM

Thanks to Obama, the anti-semitism is taking over Australia right now.

Andy in Agoura Hills on November 11, 2008 at 5:40 PM

Taking Bill Gates’ fortune away and giving it to the homeless is immoral and highly destructive, but it is not an act of socialism. By contrast, the Justice Department telling Microsoft how to run their business is an act of socialism.
hicsuget on November 11, 2008 at 5:05 PM

Bill Gates is de facto Microsoft, and telling Bill Gates what to do with his money is de facto government control, which is de jure Socialism/Marxizm

davidk on November 11, 2008 at 5:43 PM

Stop telling us to calm down…that only gets you a swift kick in the pants…get out there and speak the truth. Calm down my ass.

tomas on November 11, 2008 at 5:44 PM

Correction: “as not being classless”

ADD induced dilexia.

davidk on November 11, 2008 at 5:45 PM

Uh, dislexia

I was thinking “dialetic.” Or something.

davidk on November 11, 2008 at 5:48 PM

Ed,
Buy a firearm for self protection,and alot of ammo.
It’s the best advice you’ll get all day…..

Jed1899 on November 11, 2008 at 5:49 PM

Be very careful of what you say on the Internet; the Obama marxists already have in place computer programs that can highlight certain Obama words that can identify you as possible Obama enemies.

tocoloro on November 11, 2008 at 5:25 PM

A friend of mine in High School had a particularly idiotic, particularly nerdy little brother, who he frequently was forced to bring along with us. He would try his best to be like us, only more so. He wound up humiliating himself, though he didn’t know it, and to a lesser degree embarrassing the rest of us.

tocoloro, just wondering… you don’t have an older brother named David, do you?

RegularJoe on November 11, 2008 at 5:52 PM

get out there and speak the truth.get in people’s faces.

tomas on November 11, 2008 at 5:44 PM

Yay! Now we can be Chicago thugs too!

MadisonConservative on November 11, 2008 at 5:53 PM

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