The onset of ODS

posted at 10:50 am on November 11, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

For the past seven-plus years, the Left has suffered from Bush Derangement Syndrome.  Well, actually, the rest of us have suffered from their embrace of BDS, which one might think would inoculate us from any related maladies.  As Jake Tapper notes, though, the onset of Obama Derangement Syndrome might prove that wrong:

We all remember “Bush derangement syndrome” — defined by Charles Krauthammer as “the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency — nay — the very existence of George W. Bush.”

We already need a name for the reverse disorder.

Rep. Paul Broun, R-Georgia, recently said that he fears President-elect Obama may create a security force akin to the Gestapo to impose a Marxist dictatorship.

“It may sound a bit crazy and off base, but the thing is, he’s the one who proposed this national security force,” Broun told The Associated Press. “I’m just trying to bring attention to the fact that we may – may not, I hope not – but we may have a problem with that type of philosophy of radical socialism or Marxism.”

Broun refers to this portion of a speech Obama gave in July in Colorado. The media dropped two sentences from its reporting of the speech, which set off critics when World Net Daily reported it:

We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.

At the time, Obama’s supporters claimed that he meant the Peace Corps and other volunteer organizations. That seems a stretch, but so does Broun’s interpretation of it. As I wrote at the time, the nation already has a number of non-military national security forces, including the FBI, ICE, Border Patrol, and so on. If we want to fund that better, many conservatives would agree, but not funding it to the same extent as the military. In the context of Obama’s remarks above, though, he fairly clearly meant to at least include a volunteer force in outreach within and outside the US as some sort of Department of Peace-like indirect boost to national security.

Nothing in that speech hints at a Gestapo-like organization at all. I’d agree that we have to remain vigilant at all times to ensure that the government doesn’t try to impose such a regime upon us, but this is an extremely thin reed to grasp for such a conclusion. Although I supported a freer hand at the NSA in monitoring communications with one end in the US for possible terrorist activities given the dangers we face in this era, it’s far easier for the government to turn that into a Gestapo than what Obama proposed.  That’s why I understood the Left’s opposition to it (as well as a small minority of conservatives) and thought reasonable safeguards against potential abuse were appropriate, as the eventual compromise in Congress provided.

If we plan to offer a rational alternative to the coming debacle of the next two years, then we’d better stick to facts and eschew hyperbole.  We need to oppose the reality of the radical agenda proposed by Obama and the Democratic majorities in Congress, not fantasies spun out of context-free snippets of speeches.  The more critics invoke Hitler and Stalin instead of Jimmy Carter and Lyndon Johnson, the better the reality of Obama, Reid, and Pelosi will seem in 2010.

Addendum: Also, can we please get rid of this canard?

“We can’t be lulled into complacency,” Broun said. “You have to remember that Adolf Hitler was elected in a democratic Germany. I’m not comparing him to Adolf Hitler. What I’m saying is there is the potential.”

No, he wasn’t.  Hitler was never elected to any office.  He became Chancellor because of a deal struck between political factions warring with each other in the twilight of Weimar Germany, appointed to the position by President von Hindenburg.  The Nazis never even won a majority in the Reichstag, and in fact lost seats in the last free elections before Hitler became Chancellor.  Unlike in most parliamentary systems, the executive in Germany did not need to hold a seat in the Reichstag.  The Weimar system never had the support of the German people, and the reversion to strong-man rule was almost inevitable.

And unlike Germany, we will get free elections in two years.  If we want to win majorities back, we’ll need to stop invoking Nazis at every turn.

Update: I’m going to add this here rather than reposting it every 50 comments or so in the thread.  Nothing in this post says we should refrain from criticizing Obama.  I’m just arguing that we have to stick to the facts rather than screeching historically inaccurate references to Nazis every time we disagree with Obama.  No one will have any credibility left if we all give into the impulse to act like the Kos Kiddies for the next two years.


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I wanna be an ODS KosKiddie! I wanna be an ODS KosKiddie!
*stamps feet, holds breath, turns blue*

eeyore on November 12, 2008 at 12:45 AM

They urinate all over the Constitution and we’re told to “calm down”? What the–???

RightTurnOnly on November 12, 2008 at 1:20 AM

Ed,
I’m sure most of us will hold a higher standard that what was granted to President Bush. Tit for Tat is Nat.

Why wait till the damage is done?

Kini on November 12, 2008 at 1:48 AM

Guys the sky is not falling. Lets keep our composure and not scream like code Pink idiots.

tx2654 on November 12, 2008 at 1:55 AM

What did you expect Ed? You think Republicans are going to forget they have been crapped upon by the left for all these years? Are you nuts?

echosyst on November 12, 2008 at 3:14 AM

Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.

CanadianGuy on November 11, 2008 at 11:20 AM

I tried to vote McCain Palin on the new touchscreen.

I got RickRolled.

Ended up voting present.

soundingboard on November 12, 2008 at 3:33 AM

If we plan to offer a rational alternative to the coming debacle of the next two years, then we’d better stick to facts and eschew hyperbole. … No one will have any credibility left if we all give into the impulse to act like the Kos Kiddies for the next two years.

Yet the Kos Kiddies just won an election. The kiddies understand that facts are boring and that successful poliitcs require more than rational alternatives. The price of passion is a measure of hyperbole. A dispassionate politics of rational alternatives is losing politics, especially in a season of deep economic uncertainty and crubling institutions.

Warlord on November 12, 2008 at 3:49 AM

Nothing in this post says we should refrain from criticizing Obama. I’m just arguing that we have to stick to the facts rather than screeching historically inaccurate references to Nazis every time we disagree with Obama. No one will have any credibility left if we all give into the impulse to act like the Kos Kiddies for the next two years.

I’m sorry but you’re wrong. You’re deflecting the truth of things in service to what “feels” better: being safe and uncontroversial, inspiring no difference, “not making waves.”

THE PROBLEM IS that the current Left has no knowledge OF the Nazi regime, of just who Hitler was and remains very much misinformed and misassuming about both.

They WRONGLY assume that that was a “rightwing” happening (it certainly was not).

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read from the Left that they assume that “Hitler was a Catholic” and that “the Catholic Church supported him” and that “Nazis were rightwing” and such.

I know the historical details (Hitler was taken to a Catholic Church in his youth, yes, but he certainly was not Catholic — the Church did not take highly public steps to denounce Hitler during his horrible reign BECAUSE it was concluded that harms would more drastically befall Catholics and other Christians if they did, and, by remaining less critical of Hitler, et al, the Church was more able to help others during the Holocaust, including many Catholics dying in camps along with others while attempting to help; and, the LEFTWING or Socialists run amok in Germany created Hitler, his party politics and the emotional hypnotism that befell many Germans under his terms).

It is IMPORTANT to confront these things today and point out just how today we see so many of these social and political extreme effects again emerging in the Leftwing dedication to yet another charismatic figure.

I agree with the Congressman, by the way, what he’s said and why and about what, I disagree that the Right today should silence any criticism accordingly of the Left.

AND, the whole fanaticism ON RACIAL TERMS that typifies Obama’s plans as to the “force” he’s seeking to create IS EXACTLY WHAT HITLER ACCOMPLISHED AND FOR JUST ABOUT THE SAME REASONS, **AND** Obama (and wife, particularly) HAVE identified many outrageously fascist and racist intents by which they define their perceptions of this “force” they want to make nationwide. And also compulsory, even more outrageous and offensive.

Glen Beck did a column a while ago about what he found when looking into the plans the Obamas have. Including discovering that they want to make it an indoctrination requirement that instructs against “the White race” in them associating, damagingly, that being White and heterosexaal equates with being an oppressor, responsible for oppressive other races.

S on November 12, 2008 at 4:41 AM

AND, UNFORTUNATELY, to be clear, eventually, the other misleading aspects of that terrible past have to be confronted. And that is, the anti-Christian bias by many Jews from originally Europe.

I am not promoting nor do I share in anti-Semetic perspectives (I support Israel, I agree that the Holocaust existed, I don’t generalize in negative stereotypes about Jews or anyone else if I can help it), BUT, a driving SOCIO-POLITICAL aspect of conditions in Europe prior to Hitler’s charismatic “rise” there was due to growing animosity in European societies as to Jews who promoted a “lessening of” Protestant (and Catholic) peoples. It’s the same condition that exists today but remains unstated publicly among the Left, by the way, the need by the Left to “polyglot” what they perceive to be “White America” as also they did earlier in “White Europe.”

I’m JUST SAYING HERE that the sentiments continue to exist that CREATE resentments and that every time anyone tries to discuss this, they get slandered with pejoratives. It needs to be possible to discuss this without the Left being granted rein to whip anyone who tries to discuss this.

S on November 12, 2008 at 4:47 AM

We put up with 8 years of moonbatism and hatred of all things Republican. We put up with vicious smears of Bush’s daughters. We put up with being called “goosesteppers” for supporting the war in Irag and Afghanistan. We put up with watching the NYTimes commit overt treason, which they repeated this week. Again. We put up with lies and baseless attacks generated out of whole cloth.

Remember Plamegate?
Remember Jeff Gannon?

If I have “ODS” then I’m proud of it. I am very angry because it was the DEMOCRATS who destroyed political civility in America. In fact they’ve been doing it since 1986.

First they “borked” Bork.

Then they “hi-tech lynched” Thomas.

They made Alito’s wife weep during his “hearings.”

They hate us and until you wake up to the fact that this isn’t just partisan politics, but a “war to the knife” between their ideology and ours, we’re going to continue to be rope-a-doped. Because they are not going to stop just because they own Congress and the White House. They need to continue to own both and they will do anything to achieve that.

Rove said it was a mistake to play possum all these years. He was right.

I intend to treat Democrats the same way they treated us for these last 8 years: With derision. With insults. With open resistance.

I don’t care about “civility” – I won’t be obscene or vulgar – but I won’t have anything nice to say about Democrats. Why should I? They’ve been mean and nasty to me.

I don’t care about “giving the new guy a chance.” Did they give Bush a chance?

I don’t care about “unity” – they worked overtime in not only sabotaging Bush, but sabotaging a war the United States was fighting in the Middle East. Did you forget the Rockerfeller memos? Did you forget the marches with “BushHitler” signs? Did you forget Code Pink going to Jordan and giving $600,000 to Al Qaeda representatives while we were fighting in Fallujah?

Did you forget the repeated attempts to shut down the Port of Tacoma?

Did you forget this picture? http://www.frontpagemag.com/media/Homepage/ShootOfficers3.gif

Finally, I am not too sure that free elections will continue in America, given the actions of ACORN and the illegal campaign contributions, both foreign and domestic, Obama was pulling in.

And as there will be NO investigation by the FEC on Obama’s practice of turning off the address verification of his card processing, you can bet that the Democrats will continue this practice in 2012 and beyond.

If Democrats want to achieve national “unity” with us, they must accomplish the following:

(1) Cease the vicious attacks on Republicans. No more off-hand cracks about Nancy Reagan by The One.

(2) Give up the various gun control schemes they are hatching – forever.

(3) Insure that we keep winning in Iraq and do what is done to insure victory in Afghanistan.

(4) Allow drilling for oil and gas in the USA.

(5) Don’t wreck the economy with tax hikes or reward Chris Dodd and Barney Frank for causing the mortgage crises.

(6) Immediately bring William Jefferson (D-LA) to trial for fraud. And forgeddaboutit in pardoning Tony Rezko.

As the above list has no chance in Hell of ever being enacted by a Democrats (especially item 1), I do not expect them to ever change their behavior. So, why should I change mine?

georgej on November 12, 2008 at 4:56 AM

I am going to be flying the ODS flag proudly.

It’s hard to deny that 8 years of BDS propaganda shoved down the throats of American’s had an effect.

Conservatives have always tried to remain ‘above the fray’ when it comes to questionable attack methods. I think it is a mistake to continue down that route in today’s world.

Look at how the right handled McCain’s loss. With class, dignity, and an inward focus to examine what went wrong and how to fix it for the next election.

Now look at the left’s reaction to losing on Prop 8. They kick, scream, protest and break stuff. That gets attention – and thus sways opinion.

I agree that our leading pundits should remain above ‘ODS’ to remain credibility, but we need a few designated ODS’ers to stir the pot a little – and we need massive amounts of ODS’ers to make some noise and paint Obama as everything from an inexperinced failure to a socialist Hitler.

We need to have effigies of him defaced. We need outlandish slanders against him. We need people arrested for speaking out against him. We need to YouTube people getting tasered for protesting him. We need to launch outrageous conspiracy theories that Obama is behind every negative event that happens in this country for the next 4 years.

Yes, I know it goes against everything we conservatives seem to stand for – but we aren’t going to make much headway by sitting quietly on the sidelines with our hands politely folded in our laps.

We need a little ‘change’ of our own IMO.

Who’s with me????

Mr Purple on November 12, 2008 at 4:59 AM

Ed, do you actually expect a conservative to support anyone who spewed “the First and Second Amendment of the Constitution were obsolete soon after they were ratified” as Obamanazi did?
No matter how much we attack Obamanazi, you can guarantee we won’t attack him at the price of National Security or degrading our military people as have the leftists over the past eight years.
Michelle, slap Ed.

nelsonknows on November 12, 2008 at 5:23 AM

They (Democrats) hate us and until you wake up to the fact that this isn’t just partisan politics, but a “war to the knife” between their ideology and ours, we’re going to continue to be rope-a-doped. Because they are not going to stop just because they own Congress and the White House. They need to continue to own both and they will do anything to achieve that. – georgej

I really agree. Completely.

AND it’s an error to feel “apologetic” about or ridicule anger on the Right. We need, instead, to use it and use it well. The Left is not being coy about their destructive intents for and about the Right, and they continue to lie for self-serving needs about the Moderate Middle.

If you move, as the Left has done, the Far Left if not enemy status to the Middle, you then reposition the Right to the Left, which is their objective (underway as I type this).

I think the article here, premise, is entirely wrong. And I really don’t think what the Left “thinks” of the Right is ever going to improve, so who cares what they “think” — it’s always disturbed and irrational and damning, so, well, best to just detach from them and their “think.”

OUR best strategy is to coalesce upon ideas and positions and then win the next election (Senate in 2010 included).

S on November 12, 2008 at 5:25 AM

responsible for oppressive other races.

S on November 12, 2008 at 4:41 AM

…responsible for OPPRESSING other races.

S on November 12, 2008 at 5:27 AM

As I wrote at the time, the nation already has a number of non-military national security forces, including the FBI, ICE, Border Patrol, and so on.

I’m guessing ATF would be in that group.

rhodeymark on November 12, 2008 at 5:59 AM

The “funny” part of this whole discussion is that WE are stereotyped with THEIR behavior. It’s a neat trick that I wish I could figure out.

Cindy Munford on November 12, 2008 at 6:11 AM

I’ve said it before and I’ll repeat it again:

The civil war begins the day they go for the guns. Every dictator in history secured his position with gun control. True there was control of the press and the charming of the masses too, but the real power comes with a disarmed populace because once the people are disarmed they are helpless before the power of the state.

The socialists have siezed power. They will abuse it. When they do, me and mine will be ready.

Browncoatone on November 12, 2008 at 6:40 AM

I STRONGLY disagree with Ed, he would have us sit back and WAIT, the Kos & MMA didn’t wait… That’s the trouble with so called Conservatives. We bring words to a knife fight, a knife to a gun fight and then wonder why we get CREAMED time and time again. We MUST, imho, fight fire with fire, e-mail, make calls, boycots, raise holy heck… Get our message out, slam “The One” at every turn, have our message be heard. If we continue to “play nice” we LOSE! At least we Conservatives should be smart enough to see what our enemies did to WIN, let’s learn and use thier tactics…

Our way is not working, let’s play to WIN for a change!

Mark Garnett on November 12, 2008 at 7:46 AM

Like Ann Coulter said in her column last week:

“In the spirit of reaching across the aisle, we owe it to the Democrats to show their president the exact same kind of respect and loyalty that they have shown our recent Republican president.”

In other words, NONE. AT. ALL!

GrayLoess on November 12, 2008 at 8:34 AM

I’ve found an extremely annoying tendency on the part of many of my conservative friends to be overeager to give the left the ‘benefit of the doubt’

I’m sorry , but this ‘youth corps’ is setting off all kinds of alarm bells. Give 32 million inner city gang bangers and starry eyed (or glassy eyed) suburban kids federal power?? What could POSSIBLY go wrong??

Obama is trying to pass this off as “homeland security”.. BS. We already have legitimate volunteer orgs such as the Civil Air Patrol and Coast Guard Auxiliary. These are regulated and trained. The CG Aux was only something like 30,000 members last I checked.

When you take a look at the past and current similar situations, I don’t see any good coming out of it. This obamarmy is just plain creepy. It’s unneeded, it’s dangerous. It doesnt’ make any sense in the traditional sense.

Folks, go back and keep examining Ayers and Alinsky. That is where you will find your answers.

bullseye on November 12, 2008 at 8:59 AM

Conservatives should be smart enough to see what our enemies did to WIN, let’s learn and use thier tactics…

Our way is not working, let’s play to WIN for a change!

Mark Garnett on November 12, 2008 at 7:46 AM

Spot on Mark.. We keep playing by Marqui de Queensbury rules while the other side is doing Machiavelli.

I detest machiavellian methods but Queensbury will never beat Machiavelli.

bullseye on November 12, 2008 at 9:06 AM

Why didn’t the Left ever think about being patriotic and not trashing every effort Bush made?

katiejane on November 11, 2008 at 6:46 PM

For one very simple reason – THEY’RE NOT PATRIOTIC!!

Look, I haven’t heard a single person say that we should go soft, or “go along to get along”. The point of putting conservatives in office is not to get a higher class of crazy, but to return to sanity. Yes, “get in their faces” — but do it with superior facts and logic, not with tantrums, dirty words and “silly slogans”**. We can be passionate, but we can also be factual and respectful — if not to Obama, then at least to the reader we’re trying to persuade! BTW,

To the extent the KOS kids have been at all effective, it hasn’t been in their rhetoric, but their overwhelming numbers. Since most of us have jobs, we’re not going to be able to match them in numbers posting on mainstream bulletin boards, and we sure won’t be able to out-crazy them — if for some reason we thought that’s a good idea. What we CAN do is to post responsible, intelligent information that IS persuasive.

We also need to understand that sitting here in our own clubhouse isn’t going to get us anywhere. Yes, we need to spend some time here getting facts, and rallying one another; but when some Obamaphile reporter posts something untrue or misleading, we need to be on the spot with our side of the story, and return frequently for a couple of days. The KOS kids will bury us with numbers, but if 1/4 of the posts are reasoned, rational, but passionate arguments, and 3/4 are temper tantrums and silly slogans, then people who care enough to read the comments have a good chance of being persuaded by reason.

One other thing: I can’t be the only person who decided long ago to IMMEDIATELY skip any post once I see that they’ve taken a person’s name and twisted it “cleverly”, as in “Bushitler”, or “Hitlery”, or “Obama bin Lyin”. Fourth grade was fun, but that doesn’t mean I want to live there intellectually (although I’ll admit I did chuckle a little when I saw Obama followers referred to as “Obama-lama-dingdongs”; so maybe this can be okay if it’s REALLY funny, and light-hearted rather than calling someone Hitler).

**By ‘silly slogans’, I’m referring to things that are either demonstrably untrue, or that are only believed by people once they’ve changed sides. Ask yourself: was anyone actually CONVINCED by “Bush lied, people died”? Did anyone who supported Bush hear “Bushhitler” and say “Bush Hitler? Wow, I always liked him, but that sure changed my mind.” I think slogans can be effective, but they need to be shorthand for something real and substantial — as in “Drill Here, Drill Now”.

RegularJoe on November 12, 2008 at 9:21 AM

oops – sorry — /strong

RegularJoe on November 12, 2008 at 9:21 AM

I STRONGLY disagree with Ed, he would have us sit back and WAIT, the Kos & MMA didn’t wait… That’s the trouble with so called Conservatives. We bring words to a knife fight, a knife to a gun fight and then wonder why we get CREAMED time and time again. We MUST, imho, fight fire with fire, e-mail, make calls, boycots, raise holy heck… Get our message out, slam “The One” at every turn, have our message be heard. If we continue to “play nice” we LOSE! At least we Conservatives should be smart enough to see what our enemies did to WIN, let’s learn and use thier tactics…

Our way is not working, let’s play to WIN for a change!

Mark Garnett on November 12, 2008 at 7:46 AM

Agreed – although I would take some issue with the ‘our way isn’t working’ claim.

I think we need the majority of our pundits and commentators to remain above the fray and not feed this ‘ODS’ stuff – but neither should they be so quick to criticize those who do choose to become agitants.

We neeed more visibility thru protests. I commend groups like Protest Warrior and such for their efforts – but we need a much larger group. We need the old folks, the young Republicans, soccer/hockey moms, etc. We need numbers.

I’m convinced a lot of the protesters are just there to protest for the hell of it – and we need to start tapping into that resource. Get them on our side of the issues for once. They protest against the ‘status quo’ – not because of their political beliefs. It doesn’t matter who is in power – they will show up to protest anybody.

Mr Purple on November 12, 2008 at 9:27 AM

Not all americans were fooled by Obama; 56 million americans voted for McCain. Obama needs to payback the marxists that put him in the white house by installing a communist government in the US. Keep your ammo dry and your guns well greased and hidden, we will need them.

tocoloro on November 12, 2008 at 9:39 AM

Long time ago, communism decided that they wanted to take over the world and the US without firing a shot. They have achieved their goals by infiltrating our colleges and universities with marxist professors that for over 50 years have brain washed many americans into beliving that communism works. Now we are seeing the results, all spheres of the american live have been infiltrated by these leeches and bastards. We need to regroup and reverse the trend by first firing all the leftist dogs in the universities.

tocoloro on November 12, 2008 at 9:45 AM

You’ve got to know that I fit deeply into the cat.
And that is scary on so many levels.
jerrytbg on November 11, 2008 at 10:42 PM

I’d like this Harvard Grad to tell us in plain English what his plans are. If one reads that paragraph on Seniors it sure does seem to say that IF you “volunteer” you’ll get health coverage. I’ll reprint just that portion of the “fact sheet” in case any Obamatons are lurking, and let them explain it. Or maybe Captain Ed can provide a translation:

Obama and Biden will work to provide [Senior volunteers] additional income security, including assistance with retirement and family-related costs, and continuation of health care coverage, for people who participate in citizen service.

I was arguing with Bradky who seems to think rational argument is the only way to convince people to change their mind. ANY study on persuasive techniques will show this isn’t the case. In politics, unfortunately, rational argument isn’t even one of the better ways to convince someone to change their mind.

davenp35 on November 11, 2008 at 10:51 PM

I don’t necessarily disagree with that. I was taking issue with your theory that becoming conservative is an emotional decision. As a former Democrat, I can tell you that it was cold, hard facts which flipped me to the other side. I lived in NYC under decades of disastrous liberal rule, like under Mayors Lindsey and Dinkens, and they very nearly destroyed NY. Along came Mayor Giuliani, the city was re-born, and that overwhelming evidence of tangible er, change, convinced me to make the switch.

Horowitz had his awakening when his good friend was murdered by the Black Panthers. At that point he began to have “second thoughts”. He didn’t become a “neo-Con” because his heart was broken, but because he calculated that Marxism and all it’s pretenses of good works, is a dangerous fraud.

Buy Danish on November 12, 2008 at 10:17 AM

Obama and Biden will work to provide [Senior volunteers] additional income security, including assistance with retirement and family-related costs, and continuation of health care coverage, for people who participate in citizen service.

This most certainly does sound like they’re implementing slavery. Rather, indentured servitude. Illegal under our Constitution, even if done by a President and V.P.

And it does sound like they’re hinging any “retirement income” (also known today as Social Security) on that servitude.

Because, will any senior who isn’t involved in their servitude plan going to NOT be receiving “health care” and “retirement income”?

What a wicked duo Obama and Biden are, just wicked.

S on November 12, 2008 at 12:08 PM

Obama and Biden will work to provide [Senior volunteers] additional income security, including assistance with retirement and family-related costs, and continuation of health care coverage, for people who participate in citizen service.

This is a great example of the sort of thing we’ll need to respond to in the next few years. So tell me, which of the following sounds more effective:

“This is proof positive that Obama and Biden are Neo-Stalinist sociopaths with Nazi-like ambitions to build an army of geezers, whose “continuation of health care coverage” will undoubtedly be some sort of injections that will turn them into Zombies, incapable of violating the will of the One true Obama-ssiah. Anyone who doesn’t fall in line to Heil Obama will obviously be starved, and their organs used to keep the Obama-zombie corps running.”

or…

“This proposal has certain elements that are startling in their potential implications, and as interesting for what is not said as for what is. It seems to imply that those who decline to ‘volunteer’ would NOT receive continuing medical care — which, for Seniors, is Medicaid. Though the language is vague, it also seems to imply that they would not receive retirement income — AKA Social Security. Furthermore — and perhaps most disconcerting — it is unclear what ‘citizen service’ will comprise. Will this service include ‘community organizing’, or other tasks that will have political implications? Who will decide what tasks are suitable? And what of Seniors whose health makes ‘volunteering’ impossible? Americans have every reason to be extremely leery of this policy until we know more about it, and should vigorously oppose it until acceptable answers are given. Our Senior Citizens have given too much to this country for us now to threaten to withhold their security in retirement if they are unwilling or unable to ‘volunteer’.”

Now, the first one might cause some of you to get excited, but that doesn’t add any votes to the total. The second one, though, I would argue has the ability to affect opinions.

RegularJoe on November 12, 2008 at 1:05 PM

RegularJoe on November 12, 2008 at 1:05 PM

Ed says it’s okay to criticize as long as we’re dealing with facts. Here’s the problem – what are the facts?

I posted that directly from Obama’s website. What does it mean? Since we don’t know what it means, does that mean we can’t sound an alarm? Should we just hang on to see if it gets erased from his website and ends up in the memory hole, along with most of the content of the Change.Gov website? What is a reasonable amount of time to remain calm, sit back, and say or do nothing?

I don’t want to worry so much about appearing “deranged” that I wake up one morning and discover that this country and the rules have changed beyond recognition.

Buy Danish on November 12, 2008 at 1:19 PM

RegularJoe on November 12, 2008 at 1:05 PM

Ed says it’s okay to criticize as long as we’re dealing with facts. Here’s the problem – what are the facts?

I posted that directly from Obama’s website. What does it mean? Since we don’t know what it means, does that mean we can’t sound an alarm? Should we just hang on to see if it gets erased from his website and ends up in the memory hole, along with most of the content of the Change.Gov website? What is a reasonable amount of time to remain calm, sit back, and say or do nothing?

I don’t want to worry so much about appearing “deranged” that I wake up one morning and discover that this country and the rules have changed beyond recognition.

Buy Danish on November 12, 2008 at 1:19 PM

Did you read my post that you took issue with? The summation said:

“Americans have every reason to be extremely leery of this policy until we know more about it, and should vigorously oppose it until acceptable answers are given. Our Senior Citizens have given too much to this country for us now to threaten to withhold their security in retirement if they are unwilling or unable to ‘volunteer’.”

That the policy lacks details, and that it has unacceptable implications, are facts; and those facts are PRECISELY what should be used to target piffle like this.

RegularJoe on November 12, 2008 at 1:51 PM

RegularJoe on November 12, 2008 at 1:51 PM

I was taking issue with Ed, not with you. Once again, I believe he has picked the wrong issue (Universal Service) to illustrate ODS.

Buy Danish on November 12, 2008 at 2:03 PM

Whether the bailout was necessary or not I have no idea – and NO ONE has any idea, since no one knows that actual depth of the problem. In fact, such little is known about the true dimensions of the problem that none of the bailout money was ever used to do what it was passed to do.

progressoverpeace on November 11, 2008 at 2:11 PM

On looking back at my comment (that I have been saying since the bailout was proposed) I have to profusely apologize for my obvious derangement about what is really going on …

Treasury Not Planning to Buy Bad Loans, Assets

I need to learn to defer to those who are better at the ostrich thing.

progressoverpeace on November 12, 2008 at 2:27 PM

The liberals who post on this site need to reflect about how they encourage intelligent political discourse with conservatives. Sadly, I have found very few liberals who are capable of or willing to engage in meaningful dialogue about politics, particularly partisan politics but also more general philosophical debates about the challenges facing society. Ask yourselves how often you have expressed your opinions vehemently, cast your observations in partisan terms, or made disparaging remarks about President Bush to work colleagues, neighbors, or casual acquaintances. Does everyone you encounter know your political views? If so, ask yourself why do they need to be confronted with your opinions? Have you ever found yourself keeping your opinions to yourself for the sake of propriety at work? to avoid unpleasantness? to escape criticism?

I’m betting that the majority of conservative posters at this site, even the very opinionated and “vocal” ones, have had to hide their political views at work or church or in social settings. I’d also bet that very few of our liberal colleagues have done the same.

In terms of the topic (ODS syndrome), although I found the images of militant black panthers (is that redundant?) carrying billy clubs at a polling place horrifying, I am able to chalk that up to a secondary rather than a primary symptom of Obama’s political machinery. To some degree, there is truth to the notion that there are nutty supporters on both “sides” and that we have to avoid painting Obama with the thugs who support him. However, the folks that worry me are the educated, well-off Obama supporters because (1) they have no excuse for being so intolerant and vicious and (2) they control the media, our educational system, our unions, and an increasing number of judgeships and civil servant positions.

In my experience working for over two decades in academe, liberals are extremely intolerant of conservative viewpoints. They make an assumption, when safely nestled in the cocoon of academe, that no thinking person, particularly no educated thinking person, could possibly disagree with their points of view. In addition, they (faculty and faculty-wannabees in top administrative roles) see it as their mission, as the intellectual elite, to “educate” the masses to their political ideology. This happens in the classroom, at faculty meetings, in professional settings, and in day to day exchanges with other faculty as well as with the academic “underclass” (support personnel, secretaries, maintenance folks, business clerks, etc).

I am able to carry on a civil, even cordial, conversation with people whose opinions don’t just differ from mine, but that I actually find so extreme as to be dangerous. I rarely initiate these political discussions, certainly never ones that involve partisanship, but am quickly apprised of my counterpart’s point of view (Bush is evil and should be impeached, pro-life people are crazy, conservatives are all bigots, etc etc). These are people I work with, people who like me, but they leave those conversations never knowing that they have been offensive or that I disagree with them.

I don’t much care about ODS as a syndrome we conservatives must concern ourselves with. I have lived through 8 years of Reagan bashing and 8 years of Bush hatred. I think that the conservatives whose patience is at an end and want to vent have certainly earned that right.

The Obama supporters who for whatever reason have decided to post here should reflect on their own behaviors before clicking their tongues at those of us here who have already seen enough of Obama to know that he represents a real threat to the American way of life.

Y-not on November 12, 2008 at 2:40 PM

All right, Regular Joe. I see your point.

Alana on November 12, 2008 at 2:46 PM

I agree, Buy Danish. This is not the thing to hang ODS on.

The birth certificate is the thing to hang ODS on, if anything.

And the deliciously ironic part is – it’s probably that issue (which most of us consider slightly deranged) – that is the one which will ultimately sink Obama!

Alana on November 12, 2008 at 2:49 PM

Y-not on November 12, 2008 at 2:40 PM

Well stated.

progressoverpeace on November 12, 2008 at 4:46 PM

The birth certificate is the thing to hang ODS on, if anything.

And the deliciously ironic part is – it’s probably that issue (which most of us consider slightly deranged) – that is the one which will ultimately sink Obama!

Alana on November 12, 2008 at 2:49 PM

I’ll tell you why the whole birth certificate issue was not and is not ODS. That’s because requiring a birth certificate is not an unreasonable request, as we have all had to show ours for much less important positions and licenses. One might call the suspicions to be ODS, but the longer BHO refused to do this very simple and reasonable thing the less even that looked like ODS.

I do think the birth certificate might take him down, but I’m not sure if our SCOTUS has the guts to enforce our Constitution against his popular support, anyway.

progressoverpeace on November 12, 2008 at 4:49 PM

progressoverpeace on November 12, 2008 at 4:46 PM

Thanks, but I doubt our trolls read it.

Y-not on November 12, 2008 at 4:52 PM

progressoverpeace on November 12, 2008 at 4:49 PM

I was born in France to American parents. I do not have a copy of my original birth certificate. I have xerox copy I obtained by writing the hospital I was born in.

This is a ridiculous issue.

Buy Danish on November 12, 2008 at 5:03 PM

This is a ridiculous issue
Buy Danish on November 12, 2008 at 5:03 PM

I second that sentiment!

For those of you who insist on cradling your ODS Gollum and his Precious, I’d recommend this: When talking with someone about issues try rephrasing what they have said into what you think you heard and vice versa. Once both have established that the other has accurately stated their position discuss away.
Advice courtesy of Patterico

Bradky on November 12, 2008 at 6:12 PM

Taken from the Redding Searchlight.

Unity not likely

Now that the election is over, you liberals are crying out for unity behind Obama. In that spirit let’s look back on your unifying efforts of the last eight years.

First you started out by going to court claiming George Bush stole the election against Al Gore. Then when Sept. 11 happened, you accused George Bush of manufacturing the crisis, going so far as to blame him for it.

Then along came the slogan “Bush lied people died” which you have chanted like a mantra ever since.

When hurricane Katrina came along President Bush was assailed with wild accusations that went so far as to say he intentionally abandoned the people of New Orleans even though billions of taxpayer dollars were funneled into the city.

You have called President Bush a murderer, a liar, stupid, Hitler and other such things nonstop for eight years. I could go on and on, but the point is clear: you liberals have battled President Bush every inch of the way with a bitterness and anger not seen in our country since Lincoln, and now you cry out for unity! Well forget it. You got your guy, and he will have his four years, but unity is something you have no right to ask for or expect. If John McCain would have been elected there would be no cry for unity, you would be back in court challenging the election results.

Your continuous groundless attacks on Sarah Palin and her family is all the proof we need of your two-faced shamelessness.

Your definition of unity is that everyone must agree with you. Well you will get no unity from me. Hopefully there will be a Republican or two with spine enough to oppose the crazy ideas that will be forthcoming from this administration, but that is probably too much to ask for. Selling out to “unity” is too easy and the current Republican Party always takes the easy road.

David A. Perreault

Redding

More eloquent then I would have put it.

Ouck Fbama!

opusrex on November 12, 2008 at 6:29 PM

Calm down!!! What? We have a cult figure about to ascend the presidency and rule. He said it not you or me. Its his own words. He said they were a national security force. He didn’t say nurse core or doctor core. Those are something else. He said national security force. I’m sure in this training he will require some sort of Marxist Saul Alinsky indoctrination so all our young people can be thugs. I mean community organizers like Obama. Think I’m kidding? He had youth camps prior to the election where you can learn to be a Marxist. I mean a community organizer.

“We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.” – Barack Obama July 2, 2008

veerite on November 12, 2008 at 6:50 PM

The birth certificate is the thing to hang ODS on, if anything.

And the deliciously ironic part is – it’s probably that issue (which most of us consider slightly deranged) – that is the one which will ultimately sink Obama!

Alana on November 12, 2008 at 2:49 PM

I’ll tell you why the whole birth certificate issue was not and is not ODS. That’s because requiring a birth certificate is not an unreasonable request, as we have all had to show ours for much less important positions and licenses. One might call the suspicions to be ODS, but the longer BHO refused to do this very simple and reasonable thing the less even that looked like ODS.

I do think the birth certificate might take him down, but I’m not sure if our SCOTUS has the guts to enforce our Constitution against his popular support, anyway.

progressoverpeace on November 12, 2008 at 4:49 PM

That’s exactly the point about the birth certificate. When my daughter wanted her learner’s permit, I had to dredge up her birth certificate, her Social Security card, an application signed by both parents and notarized, and a notarized form verifying she was in attendance in school.

I just don’t think presenting a birth certificate is a huge deal.

The only thing that might seem hostile or overboard about it is the one question, “What does he have to hide?” After hearing that question leveled at President Bush and Dick Cheney repeatedly over the years, I just don’t see it as a big deal.

theregoestheneighborhood on November 12, 2008 at 10:50 PM

Look, forget the reality for just a moment. Lets play fantasy. Let’s say you’re writing a book about how the American government gets turned into a dictatorship by a charismatic and popularly elected president who manages to get an overwhelming majority of supporters in Congress, appoints several devoted supporters to the Supreme Court, becomes almost a cult figure to a plurality of Americans, and strongly supported by millions of others.

It would look a whole lot like the recent election.

It’s easy to look at those similarities and become very concerned. If you’re unable to tell the difference between the make-believe and the reality, then you would have Obama Derangement Syndrome. If you’re concerned and watchful, but still rational, you don’t have Obama Derangement Syndrome, you have Obama Distrust Syndrome. He’s given us little reason to just trust him, so I see no need to do so.

As we move forward, we’ll see if he lives up to the worst we’ve feared about him, or is better than we expected. I certainly intend to give him credit where he deserves it. And, unlike the New York Times, Joseph Wilson, Valerie Plame, Jim Moran, Nancy Pelosi, and Obama himself as a senator, I have no intention of undermining national security or foreign policy just to attack Obama.

So I reject the term ODS as it is meant. There are a lot of people who are off their rockers when it came to President Bush. There will always be a few wild-eyed accusations thrown around about any public figure, and Obama is no exception, but I don’t see anything near the scale or intensity of the BDS we’ve seen over the last 8 years. I do see a great deal of suspicion of Obama on the right, but that is not derangement. That’s a perfectly rational suspicion.

In fact, from what I’ve seen it makes a whole lot more sense to talk about Palin Derangement Syndrome than Obama Derangement Syndrome.

theregoestheneighborhood on November 12, 2008 at 10:52 PM

Couldn’t agree more, no more being above the fray, let’s get in and fight with words, actions, and whatever else. About the birth certificate, Buy Danish says he only has a copy of his because he was born in France. Odumba was born in Hawaii, USA so what’s the problem. I also encourage everyone to find a picture of the communist Franklin Marshall Davis and put it side by side next to Bracky. Dead ringer, Odumba doesn’t resemble Obama Sr. in the slightest. I don’t believe the Kenyans are blood relatives, only relatives acquired by Mama marrying whomever she could find eligible after discovering herself pregnant. So, should be no prob if both parents are citizens of US and he was born in Hawaii, our 50th state. Let’s get to the bottom of this one.

AReadyRepub on November 12, 2008 at 11:18 PM

In fact, from what I’ve seen it makes a whole lot more sense to talk about Palin Derangement Syndrome than Obama Derangement Syndrome.

theregoestheneighborhood on November 12, 2008 at 10:52 PM

I think you’re right.

I would have agreed with the sentiment in the original post before August 29. But no more.

ddrintn on November 12, 2008 at 11:56 PM

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