Minnesota Recount: Getting around the safeguards
posted at 5:30 pm on November 7, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Earlier, I wrote that Minnesota has a good, solid voting system based on the optical-scan ballot. The system allows precincts to remove human intervention in the count, electronically transmitting the totals from each precinct to the Secretary of State while printing its totals locally for the judges to sign and publicly post. Not only should that make the results reliable, but the nature of optical-scan ballots makes it easy for recounts, either by machine or by hand.
That is, unless human intervention happens anyway (via Power Line):
Just as Secretary of State Mark Ritchie was explaining to reporters the recount process in one of the narrowest elections in Minnesota history, an aide rushed in with news: Pine County’s Partridge Township had revised its vote total upward — another 100 votes for Democratic candidate Al Franken, putting him within .011 percentage points of Republican U.S. Sen. Norm Coleman.
The reason for the change? Exhausted county officials had accidentally entered 24 for Franken instead of 124 when the county’s final votes were tallied at 5:25 Wednesday morning.
Is this legitimate? A few precincts do not use the optical-scan ballot, and apparently Patridge Township is one of them. Leaving off a digit in a vote count can happen when tallying by hand. Still, as the days wore on this week, all of those “corrections” appeared to be going in a single direction — towards Franken.
John notes that human intervention appears to have occurred despite the optical-scan system:
Hot off the press, the first apparent evidence of fraud. Last night at around 7:30, a precinct in Mountain Iron, St. Louis County, mysteriously updated its vote total to add 100 new votes–all 100 for Barack Obama and Al Franken.
Mountain Iron uses optical scanning, so the Coleman campaign asked for a copy of the tape documenting the ballots cast on election night. St. Louis County responded by providing a tape that includes the newly-added 100 votes, and is dated November 2–the Sunday before the election. St. Louis County reportedly denies being able to produce the genuine tape from election night, even though Minnesota law, as I understand it, requires that tape to be signed by the election judges and publicly displayed.
The irony is that the Secretary of State, Mark Ritchie, won election in 2006 after (unfairly) accusing then-incumbent Mary Kiffmeyer of partisanship in her administration of elections. Ritchie won with the help of MoveOn and the support of ACORN. Now we will see whether Ritchie means what he says about nonpartisanship, or whether we will see fraud determine the outcome of an election in a state reknowned for its clean operation in elections. So far, it doesn’t look very good for Minnesota.
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It’s a miracle!
Vashta.Nerada on November 7, 2008 at 5:33 PM
Don’t worry it’s change you can count on. I bet that dweeb comes out winning by 1 vote. If you can find 100 votes. I bet there are 300 more where they came from.
Brat4life on November 7, 2008 at 5:33 PM
You might want to look into the Rossi/Gregoire recount in WA four years ago to see how this will play out. Soon boxes of uncounted ballots will start turning up in deep blue counties.
rw on November 7, 2008 at 5:34 PM
Hope and change.
HarryBalzac on November 7, 2008 at 5:35 PM
They just need time to fill in more ballots!
lorien1973 on November 7, 2008 at 5:35 PM
Your about to see 237 more miracles.
aquaviva on November 7, 2008 at 5:36 PM
Dude, they are going to steal it for Franken.
Theworldisnotenough on November 7, 2008 at 5:36 PM
The whole vote counting system has become corrupted. Jennifer Brunner today announced she was going to change Ohio’s voter lwas to make Ohio more open to voters.
Look for the ID law of Ohio to be removed.
William Amos on November 7, 2008 at 5:38 PM
If Franken ends up winning, all I can say is:
F Minnesota and your hat, Canada.
Abby Adams on November 7, 2008 at 5:38 PM
*@&#%*&@#%^*%@#^%$@#%^$&#&@%^$*^&%@&^@*@^#$@$@!!!!
*fumes*
Grue in the Attic on November 7, 2008 at 5:38 PM
Bingo we have a winner!!!
grapeknutz on November 7, 2008 at 5:39 PM
Shades of Washigton State and New Mexico in the 2004 election.
Well, at least we don’t have to hear about Hanging Chads this time..
And at least they worked out a way to electronically inject massive numbers of fraudulent votes in the middle of vote counting, rather than at the very end here in NM THIS time….. Much more efficient than finding forgotten boxes of ballots in closets and bathrooms after the first count showed Democrats losing
LegendHasIt on November 7, 2008 at 5:41 PM
Why bother even voting? The Democrat Party hasn’t varied its gameplan since Tammany Hall and they sure as the Good Lord makes little green apples won’t change now. In the past, the precinct chairman decided who would win the election and then ensured the vote went they way he dictated.
Think ‘Pat, I’d like to buy a few votes’.
SeniorD on November 7, 2008 at 5:41 PM
Acorn, enemies of liberty and democracy.
Now that their chief is elected, I’m sure that whole investigation is down the tubes.
Hening on November 7, 2008 at 5:42 PM
Yep. Welcome to our world. You’d think it would ruin the people who do it, but as we have just seen here, Gregoire won by a pretty good margin in the re-match.
Crooks are in charge in the blue states and counties, and there doesn’t seem to be a damned thing we can do about it.
capitalist piglet on November 7, 2008 at 5:43 PM
Yet another attack on on the election process. How long until the Left starts questioning whether we should hold more elections (especially since the “right” people are now in power).
rbj on November 7, 2008 at 5:44 PM
These stinking d’s will do what ever it takes to win. Slim all. Sorry Ed, your state is as bad as the other 49 for fraud. I was sure praying for Coleman to win.
L
letget on November 7, 2008 at 5:44 PM
Its not bad enough that 1 quarter of this state (Minnesota) heads to Florida every winter. (wimps) Now they want the whole state to be like Florida circa 2000.
See, this is what happens when you have a (former) community organizer in charge of elections.
This on top on yet another Constitutional Amendment to raise taxes. Final proof that Minnesotan brains do freeze in winter (and dont thaw out during the year)
For the record, I am a (less than happy) Minnesotan
Ruffled Feathers
RuffledRaven on November 7, 2008 at 5:45 PM
How much fraud is going on? Will we ever know?
If only there was journalist out there willing to do their job, this would make a great story.
odannyboy on November 7, 2008 at 5:49 PM
I swear, every GOP lawyer better be on this.
goldeagle11 on November 7, 2008 at 5:50 PM
He’s good enough, he’s smart enough, and doggone it, fraudsters like him.
Jim Treacher on November 7, 2008 at 5:50 PM
If only the wimpy Republican candidates would call foul and fight back when they are the victims of such obvious fraud.
LegendHasIt on November 7, 2008 at 5:52 PM
No, we need detectives….screw lawyers, people need to go to jail and evidence needs to be brought forth….tired of people getting away with this crap.
javamartini on November 7, 2008 at 5:53 PM
So that’s it? End of story? Nobody can challenge?
tru2tx on November 7, 2008 at 5:53 PM
CynicalOptimist on November 7, 2008 at 5:54 PM
What I don’t understand is how it ever got this close. We are talking about Al Franken aren’t we? A circus monkey should have been able to beat this clown.
fogw on November 7, 2008 at 5:55 PM
As I understand it, the Secretary of State RECOMMENDS that the physical ballots be stored in a locked room, and visitors to that room be logged in and out. But it’s just a recommendation.
RBMN on November 7, 2008 at 5:56 PM
The GOP is too concerned with destroying their former VP candidate to worry about saving a Senate seat
joey24007 on November 7, 2008 at 5:56 PM
We are slowly turning into the worlds largest banana republic, without the bananas.
jellybelly on November 7, 2008 at 5:57 PM
And this is how fraudulent registrations magically become fraudulent votes. Keep the bogus registrations safely tucked away and then bring ‘em out to fill out ballots once you know exactly how many votes you need to win.
So, I wonder who Mickey Mouse voted for? How about Tony Romo?
BardMan on November 7, 2008 at 5:59 PM
Going through the same crap here in OH-15 district. They are now going to the “provisional ballots”. Hello ACORN phony registrations.
bluejacket on November 7, 2008 at 5:59 PM
We are talking about Minnesota, aren’t we?
Mark1971 on November 7, 2008 at 5:59 PM
Before the next election we have to require every polling place to have security cameras and some way of counting the number of people who actually come through the door and vote, to prevent poll workers from stuffing ballot boxes.
We have to require each voter to leave their fingerprint (with indelible purple ink) along with their signature – on absentee ballots, provisional ballots, and in-person ballots. The fingerprints should be scanned and matched for duplicates among all voters in the country.
We have to require secretaries of state to share their identification mismatches with the county election boards as soon as they get them.
We have to authorize law enforcement (not political offices or appointees) to investigate alleged voter fraud, taking depositions, etc as a legal case independent of attorney generals, secretaries of state, etc. – where any manipulation of evidence is obstruction of justice.
We need to require campaigns to have security checks on their donations and to publish all contributions.
We need to pass a law requiring the FEC to verify the Constitutiona eligibility of candidates for president BEFORE they can be placed on any ballot.
justincase on November 7, 2008 at 5:59 PM
What makes me so mad is that the GOP seems to let the Dems get away with a lot!
CynicalOptimist on November 7, 2008 at 5:59 PM
I’m good enough, I’m smart enough, and doggone it, I’ve got ACORN on my side!
VanPalin on November 7, 2008 at 6:01 PM
Treacher-LOL.
Babino on November 7, 2008 at 6:01 PM
Well that explains where all the electable circus monkeys went.</P
selias on November 7, 2008 at 6:01 PM
As Ann Coulter was sort of saying prior to the election, if the Republicans plan their own “CHANGE” campaign 2 or 4 years from now, it’d be a shame if Senator Al Franken wasn’t a part of the example.
Marcus on November 7, 2008 at 6:02 PM
Franken will be a senator. Come he11 or highwater. There’s no doubt about that. Get used to it. That’s going to be the way of Obamaland. In fact I figure they’ll have the name officially changed to Obamaland by 2011.
Griz on November 7, 2008 at 6:02 PM
jellybelly,
That’s thing about a Banana Republic, it’s ran by the bananas!
thomasaur on November 7, 2008 at 6:03 PM
What proves the corruption is that the votes ALWAYS appears in one direction – to the Dem/Coms.
ZzzzDad on November 7, 2008 at 6:03 PM
Doesn’t help our side that Richie is as crooked as the day is long.
I’d feel a lot better if they brought in an independent third party to administer this.
gophergirl on November 7, 2008 at 6:03 PM
This entire country is just one corrupt sewer and I guarantee there are at least 300 swill soaked votes for Franken floating around in it.
rplat on November 7, 2008 at 6:03 PM
example“evidence”, I mean
Marcus on November 7, 2008 at 6:03 PM
Whoops, Treacher beat me to it.
VanPalin on November 7, 2008 at 6:04 PM
I concur.
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on November 7, 2008 at 6:04 PM
…that’s the problem with stealing elections…there’s the slippery bit of keeping ‘em stolen….
…but, the electorate is asleep…glad to be on the nether side of a two-year electoral ordeal….
…which is how you steal an election in the first place…make the process onerous, capture the press, and skew the registrations…and then put partisan villains in charge…and, voila!, it’s in Huey Long’s lockbox….
…the spirit of Bill Tweed marches on….
Puritan1648 on November 7, 2008 at 6:05 PM
If the Dems can’t keep him in check, Franken could actually become an asset in some ways. He is bound to have some sort of asinine outburst or two at some point.
bluejacket on November 7, 2008 at 6:06 PM
And that’s…okay.
capitalist piglet on November 7, 2008 at 6:06 PM
I personally think the dems don’t want Franken because they know he will be a huge embarassment. I say to the victor goes the spoils. Let them have their nutbag Senator and let the loons in Minnesota, who obviously learned squat from Jesse Ventura, make themselves a laughing stock again. I am betting that all this is manna that will make our stay in the wilderness all the shorter.
msmveritas on November 7, 2008 at 6:07 PM
Pretty d**m soon it will be time to file W-4’s claiming 99 dependents – screw this crap, why should *we* pay for the coming debacle?
Onager on November 7, 2008 at 6:08 PM
Because its fair!
/sarc
bluejacket on November 7, 2008 at 6:09 PM
Horsesh*t
Onager on November 7, 2008 at 6:10 PM
oops. missed the /sarc
Onager on November 7, 2008 at 6:11 PM
No offense to some of you, but…….get real
This is A WAR: These people are at war with us, and have been at war with conservatives and Republicans for eight years or more–and the WAR did not end with their messiah ( the Manchurian Gangsta ) being annointed / elected
This is only one campaign in an on-going war, and every victory is crucial.
To all you people in Minnesota–or to those of you who voted for this Turd: We don’t deserve to be burdened with your garbage. Bad Things should happen to all of you…..
Janos Hunyadi on November 7, 2008 at 6:13 PM
Who says you can’t make money in government?
darkpixel on November 7, 2008 at 6:13 PM
Well, he could always call the National Archives and see how they do it. Or Sandy Berger.
BacaDog on November 7, 2008 at 6:15 PM
Never said I wanted him to win..just looking for a silver lining.
bluejacket on November 7, 2008 at 6:15 PM
When I was younger, I’ve spent a couple of years in Hungary, immediately after they emerged from Communism. I was there for the first two free general elections in ‘90 and ‘94. In their system, every precinct has a panel of volunteers running the voting, and the panel members are delegated by the individual parties. So what happens is, those guys are watching each other. No cameras, no tape no nothing. You know that the Socialist guy couldn’t sneak in 100 extra ballots because, hey, the Conservative and the Christian Democrat persons were right there all the time. Why this is not the rule here is beyond me.
The other thing we should adopt nationwide is the concept of a runoff when the votes are too close, like they do in Louisiana and Georgia. One of the things I learned from the 2000 election is that every voting method has a pretty hefty error rate. There are the pregnant and hanging chads, people are stupid and vote for Buchanan when they wanted to vote for Gore, the optical scanner misreads the ovals, the touch-screen machine has software errors. So the rule should be, whenever the difference between the winner and the loser is less than the margin of error, the election should be declared a tie and there should be a revote.
factoid on November 7, 2008 at 6:16 PM
rich is a code word for “conservative”
socalconcervitive on November 7, 2008 at 6:18 PM
I’ll ask the same questions I asked last time.
Was ACORN active in the state before election day? If they were how do we even know if the votes that are being counted are legitimate to begin with? What checks does Minnesota have to prevent fraudulent voting?
If we can’t ask and get answers to these kind of simple questions who cares about this recount. It might be bogus from the start.
patrick neid on November 7, 2008 at 6:20 PM
Well, just keep whining about those bad old Dems, but if you want to win, start cheating like they do. The rules have changed. I am fed up every election being scolded for suppressing voter turnout just because Republicans demand that election laws be followed. And then on election night, Dems stuff the box. Wise up losers, and get in the game.
FalseProfit on November 7, 2008 at 6:28 PM
Do you know why the wind blows so much in the Dakota’s?
Because Minnesota sucks.
I live in this God forbidden state and know of what I’m talking about.
cjs1943 on November 7, 2008 at 6:28 PM
Tim Pawlenty has to get involved in this. Now. Ritchie is a slime but I thought he’d behave because eyes would be on him. Apparently not. This wink and a nod stuff is reprehensible.
Mr. D on November 7, 2008 at 6:29 PM
From Tuesday Night on Ed has been saying that the Coleman/Franken vote is a straightforward matter — i.e optical scan computers are designed to get it right the first time, and a recount should be a perfuctory step. The impression was that MN is not a haven for election irregularities. Ed mentioned no concern that absentee ballots would be challenged or vote counts adjusted or ballots found. This recount is has got Washington State written all over it, and maybe it’s time Hotair followed the footsteps of Washington’s SoundPolitics.com to smoke out the cheaters.
Mark30339 on November 7, 2008 at 6:30 PM
BTW, Minnesota deserves big Al. To give him over a million votes in the first place (even assuming half of them were fraudulant) is a disgrace. He’s all yours; he’ll make a nice matching set with that other idiot Senator you have. What is it with you guys?
FalseProfit on November 7, 2008 at 6:32 PM
Yeah. The second I heard the other day that they would have keep counting, I knew that Coleman was history. Only Democrats ever win these close counts in senate and governor races.
It’s a done deal. Say hello to Senator Franken, and there’s nothing we can do about it.
juliesa on November 7, 2008 at 6:34 PM
I expect Dems across the nation learned some real skills after the Washington State debacle. I’m gonna be really pissed if that bastard Franken is allowed into the US Senate.
CP on November 7, 2008 at 6:35 PM
If Franken could win an election on his own it would be a miracle. The man is a complete zero. If they recount this into a Franken victory MN should be in the trash heap.
duff65 on November 7, 2008 at 6:39 PM
HT: Instapundit.
I think the GOP lawyers should ask for a hearing in which the officials are questioned under oath, under penalty of perjury.
Powerline now notes that a GOP election judge should have signed the tapes, too.
Wethal on November 7, 2008 at 6:39 PM
Thanks for wishing bad things on me. I am a Minnesotan, but a conservative one and we only get one vote. I don’t know any one who voted for Franken, but I do know a lot who voted for Barkley, because they were so pissed off that Coleman voted for the bail out. I thought about voting for Barkley myself, but just couldn’t stomach the chance Franken might get in. Never thought it would be this close.
Ellie Mae on November 7, 2008 at 6:42 PM
Ah! The Bananaless Republic!
Browncoatone on November 7, 2008 at 6:43 PM
That is still after the fact details. Nowhere have I read about any details that prevent fraudulent voting in the first place. How do we know if 15,000 votes were not bogus to begin with and now they are being scanned as valid votes. They only need a few hundred in this case.
patrick neid on November 7, 2008 at 6:49 PM
Officially, Minnesota and Pennsylvania are the top two contenders for the Stupidest States in the Union.
sherry on November 7, 2008 at 6:51 PM
That Nov 2nd date is key
See http://blogs.zdnet.com/Murphy?p=1286, my daily tech column on zdnet (now CBS!) for Nov 3/08 for part of the mechanism.
And here’s a bet: this happened in many places. I’ve spent a big part of today reviewing election day reports on voting turnout in Ohio, Florida, and the DC area. My impression is very clear: lots more people voted than votes were recorded.
So how? Easy: prepare the ballots and all required docs before the election, substitute the count after the polls close and before the ballots are moved, replace the ballots before or during transport. You get a perfectly consistent record for the auditors, honest people signing off and later swearing they did so honestly (because they did) and no easy way for anyone to prove anything once you destroy the real ballots and/or machine records.
Slick, simple, low risk – and good for stealing national elections in part because polls and early reports from eastern ands central states surpress turnout in western states.
Know why Obama acted as if the fix was in throughout this campaign? because it was.
Paul Murphy on November 7, 2008 at 6:53 PM
That is why you don’t throw your vote away on a sure loser, a 3rd party candidate. They seldom win and when they do, you get Ventura.
I’m a fellow Minnesotan. I’ve experienced this pain before.
cjs1943 on November 7, 2008 at 6:54 PM
If it’s not close, they can’t cheat.
(to quote a famous, white-haired Muppet)
omnipotent on November 7, 2008 at 6:55 PM
No, we are not contenders. We ARE the stupidist state.
cjs1943 on November 7, 2008 at 6:56 PM
Awesome fishing though….I’ll give y’all a break for that.
omnipotent on November 7, 2008 at 6:57 PM
I think I’ll take this opportunity to brag on my state, Tennessee. Not only did we give McCain/Palin a landslide victory, but we bucked the national trend and made both out House and Senate in Republican hands for the first time since Reconstruction!!
ZzzzDad on November 7, 2008 at 6:59 PM
To Minnesota and PA residents on this blog, I realize as I wrote my comment for the Stupidest State contest I had no intention of offending the general population. I hope you understand I meant the silly liberals who allowed for these debacles were the sole contenders for this contest, not the decent right-leaning citizens.
Mea culpa.
sherry on November 7, 2008 at 7:02 PM
I wish to confirm Wethal’s post of how the optical scanners and counting works. I am an election judge in Eagan, MN. The only way, in my opinion, that those ballots could have been included for Frankenstein was after the polls closed there were ballots left and the JUDGES signed the new register logs along with filling out new registration applications to match those signatures then ran the ballots through the Accuvote. The November 2 date is a fraud, period. Coleman needs to get his lawyers on this ASAP. This doesn’t pass the smell test, and I suspect there is more of this across the state. BTW three copies of those tapes are signed by all the judges. The judges are to be equally from the two major parties. Again, this reeks and I think more of it is out there.
MNDavenotPC on November 7, 2008 at 7:04 PM
Sherry
No offense taken, but you are not far from wrong in including republicans. The RINO population out numbers we true conservatives.
MNDavenotPC on November 7, 2008 at 7:06 PM
I would like to take the heat off the Minnesota residents and claim the title of the stupidest state of the union for Illinois. Chicago is the reason we’re in this disgusting mess. We invented dirty politics and The Dirty One himself.
fiscallyconservative on November 7, 2008 at 7:06 PM
I wake up in the morning and I wonder
Why everything’s the same as it was
I can’t understand, no, I can’t understand
How life goes on the way it does
Why does my heart go on beating
Why do these eyes of mine cry
Don’t they know it’s the end of the world?
- Nina Gordon
Dorvillian on November 7, 2008 at 7:07 PM
Thanks MNDaven. I live in Chicago, believe me, we are ranking up there also.
sherry on November 7, 2008 at 7:07 PM
On second thought you’re right, this reeks of corruption and this battle needs to be fought. Being from PA, I tend to think there is no end to voter stupidity. After Murtha was reelected here it wouldn’t have shocked me that Franken won.
msmveritas on November 7, 2008 at 7:10 PM
Is there any procedure for defacing, shreddding or counting leftover ballots after the polls close to avoid after-hours stuffing?
Wethal on November 7, 2008 at 7:10 PM
Yeah, I have to agree. The last time we elected a Governor who wasn’t a crook was in Clinton’s first term.
(But Minnesota’s a close second…)
VanPalin on November 7, 2008 at 7:11 PM
As a Chicago resident, I am ashamed. We foisted this mess on the country.
sherry on November 7, 2008 at 7:11 PM
And wouldn’t one of the judges supervising the process to the the final tally have to be from the GOP?
Wethal on November 7, 2008 at 7:12 PM
I guess he wasn’t squeaky clean, either, but by Illinois standards he was good. However, he did declare L. Ron Hubbard day.
VanPalin on November 7, 2008 at 7:14 PM
Do we know who won in Minnesota or not? Is Coleman or Franken?
clemycali on November 7, 2008 at 7:14 PM
Wethal,
Yes, absolutely for example my supervisor was a REP like me, but there were Dem there as well. But, with 5 judges there to sign things and watch each other, that’s why this Mountain Iron thing smells so bad. Everything needs to be initialed by two people , one from each major party.
MNDavenotPC on November 7, 2008 at 7:15 PM
Coleman is ahead by less than 300 votes.
Wethal on November 7, 2008 at 7:16 PM
I’m thinking those jokers stacked the deck, claimed they were Republican and then went off the reservation.
MNDavenotPC on November 7, 2008 at 7:16 PM
regarding damaged ballots or left over ballots…. we seal the damaged ballots and initial the envelope…. unused ballots are counted and subtracted from total ballots at the beginning of the day. The tape has the total number of ballots provided at the precinct. So you have to do a calcualtion of ballots and account for every single one.
MNDavenotPC on November 7, 2008 at 7:20 PM
MNDavenotPC, what do they do with leftover ballots?
Are they counted so all ballots are accounted for, and they know how many came in and were 1)used to vote, 2) were given back by a voter who changed his mind and wanted another, and 3) the left over are there in the right place?
Wethal on November 7, 2008 at 7:24 PM
Thanks. typed while you posted.
Wethal on November 7, 2008 at 7:24 PM
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