Leadership questions in the GOP

posted at 12:45 pm on November 6, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

After the second straight losing cycle, Republicans want new leadership in the party — and they may well get it.  In 2007, the House Republicans replaced most of the leadership positions, with a promise to strengthen the party’s “branding”.  That didn’t work out well, and now Republicans understand that “branding” isn’t enough:

Younger, more conservative lawmakers moved yesterday to assert their influence in the House Republican caucus as the GOP began the traditional period of soul-searching that follows a major electoral defeat. Conservatives also began jockeying to fill the post of Republican National Committee chairman early next year.

Republican leaders, especially on Capitol Hill, said the GOP had strayed too far from its traditional principle of limited government and must reclaim its reputation as the party most committed to cutting spending and taxes. But some were also deeply concerned about the drubbing the party’s standard-bearer, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), absorbed among Hispanic and well-educated voters, as well as affluent suburbanites, and said that a more fundamental rethinking of the GOP message is in order.

On Capitol Hill, House GOP leader John A. Boehner (Ohio) appeared likely to hold onto his leadership post, but the No. 3 Republican, Adam H. Putnam of Florida, a major proponent of the $700 billion Wall Street rescue plan, resigned his post late yesterday.

The fate of the No. 2 Republican, Minority Whip Roy Blunt (Mo.), was uncertain, and one of the younger party mavericks, Virginia’s Eric Cantor, was poised to replace him amid widespread discontent among party rank-and-file with the Election Day performance.

Blunt resigned thsi morning from his position as Minority Whip, after the Post published this article.  That only leaves John Boehner, who has already said he will fight to retain his spot at Minority Leader.  That has some activists seeing red, such as Erick Erickson at Red State, who has a more pungent take on the question:

Here’s where I am on the House and Senate GOP leadership races.

The whole lot of them should be rounded up and hanged.  Slowly.

When you lose two elections in a row, you pull out the ginsu knife and go for seppuku. Honor demands it.

Real leaders know when to get out of the way.  People too comfortable to be effective do not.

Erick is, of course, speaking figuratively.  At least, I hope he’s speaking figuratively.

Obviously, changes have to be made, but as Erick himself notes, we need to make sure we have effective leaders to replace the current team.  It will take real efforts at change, and not just “rebranding”, in order to convince voters to trust Republicans with power again. But it will also take skilled leaders willing to deal with all of the frustrations of minority status to tangle with Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid for the next two years.

In looking back at the 110th Congress, both Boehner and Mitch McConnell did a pretty good job in derailing Pelosi, Reid, & Co from their efforts to lose the war and run wild with taxpayer money.  Part of that can be attributed to the threat of vetoes from George Bush, who finally figured out how to accomplish them.  In fairness, though, both Boehner and McConnell did their share in forcing Democrats out of the lane on left-tilting policies.

The question will be whether we have candidates ready for that task now.  In the meantime, though, let’s forget about “branding” and focus on a return to the principles that unite the Right: limited government, fiscal responsibility, free enterprise and property rights, and peace through strength.  We need leaders who can restore our credibility on these issues.

Addendum: Blunt resigned with characteristic class.  Below is his letter:

Dear Republican Colleague,

In January 2007, I wrote myself a letter and mailed it to my office.  The letter, unopened, sat on my desk until Wednesday.  Almost two years ago, I wrote that our ideas didn’t lose the mid-term election, we did.  I wrote that it was my intention to spend the next two years holding the Democrats accountable and defining the differences between our parties.  I also wrote that, were we not successful in recapturing the majority in 2008, it was my intention to serve only two years as Minority Whip.

With another election behind us, I still believe that conservative ideas define where the country wants to be and needs to be.  And I believe that together we held the Democrats accountable and that we began to define some of the differences between our parties.

Against the pundits’ best predictions, we stood against a flawed expansion of government run health care in the SCHIP bill.  When many were saying it was political suicide, we gave the surge a chance to work and today we are rapidly handing over control of Iraq to a stable government capable of securing the peace.  We stopped billions of dollars in frivolous spending.  We won an unprecedented number of motions to recommit, defining the differences between our parties and on a few occasions forcing the Democrats to pull their own bills from the floor.  And when an energy crisis threatened our families and our whole economy, we advanced common sense solutions that resonated with the American people.

Yet, in part due to circumstances beyond our control, we were not successful in 2008.  And I believe my instincts two years ago were correct, I can best contribute to our efforts to regain the majority and advance the interests of the American people in a different role in the 111th Congress.  Therefore, I will not seek re-election as your Whip.

It has been one of my greatest honors to serve in the House Leadership.  I have been truly humbled by the trust you have placed in me and by the opportunity to serve our nation.

I am optimistic about our future.  I firmly believe that if we successfully define the Democrat agenda for what it is and present a compelling alternative we will be the majority in two short years.  I look forward to working beside you to build that majority.

Thank you for your friendship.

Blowback

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Mike Pence?…. a hearty AYE AYE…. sorry, the Marine thing took over again… gotta get therapy.

MNDavenotPC on November 6, 2008 at 1:37 PM

Drop the christian right, that’s what has to be done.

ricardoz on November 6, 2008 at 1:01 PM

Ever consider that the abandonment of the Christian Right might be the problem?

Consider these.

“The foundation of our national policy will be laid in the pure and immutable principles of private morality; …the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained…” George Washington, First Inaugural, April 30 1789

“Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams

Marine_Bio on November 6, 2008 at 1:38 PM

John Boehner needs to go. I didn’t like hearing that he kicked Jeff Flake off the House Appropriations Committee when Flake was complaining about the Republicans pork.

Unfortunately, I have to vote for Chambliss again on December 2nd. If there had been another Republican that went up against him, Chambliss would be gone.

moonsbreath on November 6, 2008 at 1:39 PM

Palin appointing herself senator if/when Stevens resigns is an interesting idea, and she would probably be effective in that role. The problem is: I don’t think she would be comfortable in the senate. She is, I perceive, an executive at heart. A go getter and a get’er done’er.

I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s sick of all the narcissistic phonies in national politics and swears off anything beyond Alaska for a good long time.

pugwriter on November 6, 2008 at 1:39 PM

The Federal Government has nothing to do with a lady in a coma in Florida! Florida law should govern whatever the hell the problem is unless there is a federal issue.

Speedwagon82 on November 6, 2008 at 1:40 PM

Drop the christian right, that’s what has to be done.

ricardoz on November 6, 2008 at 1:01 PM

How about we drop the squishy, moderate Democrats lite instead.

Or did you not see the Democrat lite lose to the Socialist this election?

BKennedy on November 6, 2008 at 1:41 PM

Boehner is a good man and we can’t afford to loose him.

Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

pseudonominus on November 6, 2008 at 1:41 PM

Folks…we cant just reassert we are for limited government and cutting taxes and spending without explaining why those goals are good for the country. People don’t understand how that helps…we do, but a large portion of the country does not.

AmericanUnderground on November 6, 2008 at 1:43 PM

Jeff Flake for House Minority Leader
Thaddeus McCotter for House Minority Whip.

Republican victory 2010/2012!

BKennedy on November 6, 2008 at 1:35 PM

We agree on Flake.

dedalus on November 6, 2008 at 1:43 PM

So when you go into a coma right as you are imagining all the potential your future holds, may I pull the plug on you? Please? After all, you’ve asked for it.

What does it matter if it’s a state or a federal issue? This could have happened anywhere and are you saying that Florida conservatives should have a different set of standards from someone in Montana?

AubieJon on November 6, 2008 at 1:43 PM

To rebuild the GOP, I think we need to focus on three big goals:

1. Developing new ideas and new messages that apply conservative principles of open markets and limited government to solving today’s major problems. It’s insane that Democrats are trusted more on economic issues, the environment, health care, retirement, and education. We aren’t going to win all of those issue areas, but goodness gracious, we didn’t even try this time around!

2. Reach out to younger, educated voters. We absolutely must do this if we have any hope of winning national elections. Younger voters prefer economic conservatism and do not respond well to “preachy” pro-life and pro-family messages. I am a young single professional. MOST of my colleagues come from broken homes and were not raised in the Christian faith. They don’t connect to the message. So when we oppose gay marriage or abortion, to those voters, we look like we’re being unfair or mean spirited. That educational gap must be worked on significantly over the next four years. We need to educate voters over the next four years about the joys of the culture of life. Getting married, having children, and raising kids right makes people HAPPY. It brings JOY. It brings PURPOSE. It’s a positive thing. And those who choose that righteous path are much less likely to stray into abortion and homosexuality.

3. Reach out to Hispanic voters. These voters want to feel respected and understood by the GOP. Hispanic opposition to the GOP these days comes, I think, from the feeling that the GOP is anti-immigrant and doesn’t like them. It’s not as if a majority of Hispanic voters are a bunch of commies who want handouts. The GOP needs to seriously work on Hispanic outreach, and that means (1) understanding the issues Hispanics face and (2) creating a coordinated campaign, starting NOW (and not just in an election year), to apply our limited government, free market principles to address those ISSUES. You can’t just grab a Hispanic Republican off the street, name him your VP candidate, and say “tada, come vote for me Hispanics…” And for God’s sake, we need to do something about our f-ed up immigration system.

Special note on #3: I do not mean that the Republican party should “pander” to Hispanics, in the sense of giving them some kind of handout or contradicting your principles. But I believe that Republican principles HELP latinos, and it’s our responsibility to educate latinos about our ideas and to put conservative ideas to work on matters of importance to those voters. That’s not “pandering.”

Outlander on November 6, 2008 at 1:44 PM

I would like to see a genuine push for significant tax reform including a flat tax on both individuals and businesses.

All the corporate tax loopholes encourage corruption at worst or the appearance of it at best. I would like to see the Republicans come out very strongly against the excesses of Congress, although it would be pretty hard at this point since a lot of Republicans are part of the problem.

I want to see genuine entitlement reform. Republicans have soft-pedaled this so far out of fear of alienating certain constituencies but those folks are gone anyway so now would be the time to introduce some revolutionary new ideas.

Gilda on November 6, 2008 at 1:44 PM

We have got to get a fresh message out there. We can not win elections by telling voters that the other side is worse. Get a damn message out there or get out.

goldeagle11 on November 6, 2008 at 1:44 PM

Well said, Marine_Bio.

What people are forgetting is that this nation was founded by people fleeing tyranny, seeking freedom to worship God.

Runaway Beltway Elitistim is what cost the Republican Party this election. Not Christianity.

kingsjester on November 6, 2008 at 1:44 PM

The Federal Government has nothing to do with a lady in a coma in Florida! Florida law should govern whatever the hell the problem is unless there is a federal issue.

Speedwagon82 on November 6, 2008 at 1:40 PM

So when you go into a coma right as you are imagining all the potential your future holds, may I pull the plug on you? Please? After all, you’ve asked for it.

What does it matter if it’s a state or a federal issue? This could have happened anywhere and are you saying that Florida conservatives should have a different set of standards from someone in Montana?

AubieJon on November 6, 2008 at 1:44 PM

ricardoz on November 6, 2008 at 1:01 PM

And this one.

“Can the liberties of a nation be sure when we remove their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people, that these liberties are a gift from God? Thomas Jefferson

Foolish man, freedom is not a virtue espoused by evolution or the quran.

Marine_Bio on November 6, 2008 at 1:45 PM

sorry its not a complete list

William Amos on November 6, 2008 at 1:45 PM

Drop the christian right, that’s what has to be done.

I’m with Axelrod here, only the Xtian Left and Atheists can get us back to our heritage. The Founders were all lukewarm Deists anyway… my Prof told me so.

rhodeymark on November 6, 2008 at 1:46 PM

Boehner couldn’t build a majority against a Congress with a 10% approval rating. That’s a massive failure of leadership.
He needs to be replaced by someone more aggressive.

Iblis on November 6, 2008 at 1:46 PM

We agree on Flake.

dedalus on November 6, 2008 at 1:43 PM

How can you not like the “progressive = regressive, change = magic” guy for House Minority Whip?

BKennedy on November 6, 2008 at 1:47 PM

my Prof told me so.

rhodeymark on November 6, 2008 at 1:46 PM

LMAO

*eats*

Grue in the Attic on November 6, 2008 at 1:47 PM

Speedwagon82 on November 6, 2008 at 1:40 PM

The exercise of government is ALWAYS closely related to morality and ethics. It is when we divorce ourselves from this idea that our governance turns corrupt and no longer serves the public. I simply do not feel you understand the purpose of government.

What you probably should be saying is that such issues are not the province of the FEDERAL government, but they are most certainly and correctly the jurisdiction of the states.

Hawthorne on November 6, 2008 at 1:48 PM

kingsjester on November 6, 2008 at 1:44 PM

Well, thank you, but truth is truth. I get bent out of shape over the foolishness of Christian hatred. Without Christians and our 20th century support of Israel, this country would never have become the great nation it is. (Or at least was if this is the beginning of the decline.)

Marine_Bio on November 6, 2008 at 1:50 PM

The problem is not the Christian Right, per se.

The problem is that some in the Christian Right want to use government and party to evangelize.

The GOP’s best position is not pushing religion, but protecting one’s private religious freedom.

Big difference.

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 1:50 PM

How can you not like the “progressive = regressive, change = magic” guy for House Minority Whip?

BKennedy on November 6, 2008 at 1:47 PM

Don’t know enough about him. I’ll have to read up.

dedalus on November 6, 2008 at 1:50 PM

We need to get involved…

How?

Become Precinct Chairman, and work on the voting issues for the next elections now. Why? To work on addressing voter fraud, figuring out who’s in your precinct, meeting & getting to know your neighbors, and campaigning early, starting on strategy NOW.

Vote in state elections. Why? Because they are the ones responsible for Congressional redistricting.

Run for local electoral positions. County Commissioner. Mayor. School Board. Work locally to take back our country district by district.

But do it now. Quit bitchin’ about others’ getting off their fat asses and get off yours.

(And before anyone replies about my fat ass, I’m getting off it & working as Precinct Chairman, thankyouverymuch.)

BUT. DO. IT. Don’t look to others, do it yourself.

Miss_Anthrope on November 6, 2008 at 1:50 PM

Lots of new names around here.

I agree with Michael Steele as RNC chair. From what I’ve see of him on the talk shows he would be highly effective.

I also strongly believe the GOP needs to reexamine its relationship, or perceived relationship, with Big Business. It is obvious to me that it is the GOP thatis the party that best represents the interests of the working man but blue colalr union, Regan Democrats, continue to vote for the party trying to destroy their industries. Why? Unions and offshoring.

Unions continue to advocate for neo-socialist policies in a global era. What is good for unions is bad for business and thus in the end, bad for workers. The GOP needs to work hard to get to this group.
Also they need to bring labor, not labor leadership, to the table with business. The GOP cannot continue to support the Big Business destruction of the manufacturing base of our country, and thus good skilled jobs, and expect to gain the support of an otherwise conservative voting block.
Policies can be created that benefit both business and labor. Labor needs to understand that business is not their enemy.

DerKrieger on November 6, 2008 at 1:50 PM

Until the abortion issue is settled once and for all the Christian Right will continue to be with us.

IMO the best solution is for Roe to be overturned and the issue sent to the individual states for resolution. Then people can move to states that better align with their beliefs. The Founders intended for the states to be “laboratories of democracy” not for the Fed to be our overlords.

DerKrieger on November 6, 2008 at 1:53 PM

The GOP’s best position is not pushing religion, but protecting one’s private religious freedom.

Big difference.

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 1:50 PM

And the right TO practice… with organizations like Godless America and FFRF running around, some of them heavily backing the Libs, it is a significant threat.

*eats*

Grue in the Attic on November 6, 2008 at 1:53 PM

DerKrieger on November 6, 2008 at 1:53 PM

Hammer, nail. BINNNNNNNNNNNGGG!!

*eats*

Grue in the Attic on November 6, 2008 at 1:53 PM

Why are there no women except Palin mentioned in this thread? The RNC knew for years that HILLARY was going to run for POTUS and no women emerged to run in the primaries or lead the RNC. Why don’t we have more women in leadership in the House??
Bachmann?
Blackburn?
Who else is there?

Brat on November 6, 2008 at 1:54 PM

AmericanUnderground,
I have been saying the same thing for the last 2 days:we need to put the conservative ideeas in simple words. Without that is waisting of time and energy. People need simple ideeas, concrete solutions. I can speak all day long about small government and low taxes and capital gains exception but I don’t know how much the simple voter si going to understand that actually he might benefit from them. They are abstract notions and you don’t win elections with abstractions.

Boehner couldn’t build a majority against a Congress with a 10% approval rating. That’s a massive failure of leadership.

Please, he did the best he could. Bush is still in office and people perceived him as the first culprit.

clemycali on November 6, 2008 at 1:54 PM

Micheal Steele is the ONLY Conservative left, so should be the head of the RNC IMO!!!

Name him, D@mmit!!!

Miss_Anthrope on November 6, 2008 at 1:55 PM

IMO the best solution is for Roe to be overturned and the issue sent to the individual states for resolution. Then people can move to states that better align with their beliefs. The Founders intended for the states to be “laboratories of democracy” not for the Fed to be our overlords.

DerKrieger on November 6, 2008 at 1:53 PM

They can do that, but the state solution wouldn’t decrease the number of abortions significantly, if at all.

dedalus on November 6, 2008 at 1:55 PM

I’m curious—what positions of the Christian Right are problematic for the party? Opposition to abortion? Opposition to Gay Marriage? I think both of those stances have solid, conservative arguments behind them. Opposition to embryonic stem cell research? Ditto.

I do think the GOP should stop pandering to the excesses of the Christian Right’s preferences, such as pushing Intelligent Design, Creationism and Prayer in schools. That said, I voted against Roy Moore here in Alabama because he shamelessly exploited people’s fears about the attack on religion in the public square for his own profit, not because I think he was necessarily wrong about the threat.

I don’t think we need the Ten Commandments everywhere. I don’t think it’s particularly good government policy. But expressing one’s religious belief in ways that don’t break existing laws (such as expressing it with a car bomb or a pipe bomb at an abortion clinic) isn’t wrong. It’s free speech, and that’s a proud conservative policy. There’s nothing wrong with those ideas being aired, nor for them to be openly refuted in a civil manner by people who hold different views.

I think rather than trying to jettison a significant portion of our base, we should try to set a course for ourselves as a party that incorporates the best and most conservatively defensible of the ideas available, even if they belong to people of religion. Don’t pander, but don’t dismiss, either.

bamaconservative on November 6, 2008 at 1:56 PM

The GOP’s best position is not pushing religion, but protecting one’s private religious freedom.

Big difference.

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 1:50 PM

I agree. There is a very strong perception that the Republican party wants to impose Christian-right values on everyone by force of law. It’s not entirely fair, but a whole lot of people think this and sometimes for good reason.

Gilda on November 6, 2008 at 1:56 PM

Outside those in Congress, I mean…I like Boehner. He did what he could.

I love the idea of Cantor in there, though, as Whip.

Miss_Anthrope on November 6, 2008 at 1:56 PM

The problem is not the Christian Right, per se.

The problem is that some in the Christian Right want to use government and party to evangelize.

The GOP’s best position is not pushing religion, but protecting one’s private religious freedom.

Big difference.

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 1:50 PM

When people say “religion” they mean “abortion” with just a tiny sprinkle of gay marriage.

SlimyBill on November 6, 2008 at 1:56 PM

And the right TO practice.

Grue in the Attic on November 6, 2008 at 1:53 PM

Yes, of course. When a successful executive like Mitt Romney can’t be accepted within the party because of his personal religious views, I want nothing at all to do with a bigoted party.

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 1:58 PM

AubieJon on November 6, 2008 at 1:44 PM

While I can understand and sympathize with your position, abortion, euthanasia, assisted suicide, etc. are not federal issues. All aspects of actions that may be interpreted as murder are the jurisdiction of the states. Ignoring this is dangerous in that it goes against our Constitution and puts power into the hands of the federal government that the founders did not want there.

With that said, it is still sensible to have a pro-life position as a party. You just have to implement it through the state party organizations not at the federal level. Taking this approach would actually be very beneficial to the Republican party since it would significantly strengthen the ability of the state party mechanisms. that has a direct impact on the ability of those organizations to turn out vote during national elections as well.

Hawthorne on November 6, 2008 at 1:58 PM

The problem is that some in the Christian Right want to use government and party to evangelize.

The GOP’s best position is not pushing religion, but protecting one’s private religious freedom.

Big difference.

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 1:50 PM

Really? And that is based upon what?

Why is Christian evangelism so much more scary to you than Islamic proselytizing? Is it the fact that under Islam you have the choice to convert, be subjugated or die? Or is it the fact that in spite of the evangelizing christian in your face will do NOTHING to you for your CHOICE? Christians believe that choice is an important part of their faith.

What’s so offensive?

Marine_Bio on November 6, 2008 at 1:59 PM

Yes, of course. When a successful executive like Mitt Romney can’t be accepted within the party because of his personal religious views, I want nothing at all to do with a bigoted party.

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 1:58 PM

*shrug* I personally have no problem with Mormons. I fail to see what the hubbub is about. I just know very little about Romney, overall.

*eats*

Grue in the Attic on November 6, 2008 at 2:00 PM

ClemyCali:

Glad we are of like minds. I own a PR agency, so I know a bit about what we are advocating.

Everytime I heard McCain in the debates say we are going to cut spending I was waiting for him to say “…and that will help this country because…” I got the feeling that people listening were just thinking…”cutting spending! That means less being spent on me!”

AmericanUnderground on November 6, 2008 at 2:01 PM

When people say “religion” they mean “abortion” with just a tiny sprinkle of gay marriage.

SlimyBill on November 6, 2008 at 1:56 PM

“People?” What people? Not me. If that’s how you define religion, fine, but it’s bizarre to project such a narrow view onto others.

Gilda on November 6, 2008 at 2:01 PM

When people say “religion” they mean “abortion” with just a tiny sprinkle of gay marriage.

SlimyBill on November 6, 2008 at 1:56 PM

Well, there is that. There would be no difference under Sharia law though.

Marine_Bio on November 6, 2008 at 2:03 PM

“People?” What people? Not me. If that’s how you define religion, fine, but it’s bizarre to project such a narrow view onto others.

Gilda on November 6, 2008 at 2:01 PM

I think he’s talking about the people who want religion out of the GOP.

Basically, he’s saying “People who want to drop religion out of the GOP are actually saying they want abortion and gay marriage supported by conservatives”.

*eats*

Grue in the Attic on November 6, 2008 at 2:03 PM

Why is Christian evangelism so much more scary to you than Islamic proselytizing? Is it the fact that under Islam you have the choice to convert, be subjugated or die? Or is it the fact that in spite of the evangelizing christian in your face will do NOTHING to you for your CHOICE?

Marine_Bio on November 6, 2008 at 1:59 PM

How about “none of the above” pushed at me from my government?

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:05 PM

blockquote>People?” What people? Not me. If that’s how you define religion, fine, but it’s bizarre to project such a narrow view onto others.

Gilda on November 6, 2008 at 2:01 PM

I think he was talking to those who use the line of aruement that beatcanvas used. Which was different than the straight evangelical approach I took.

Marine_Bio on November 6, 2008 at 2:05 PM

The highly religious need to realize that this is a political party, not the political wing of Judeo-Christianity. Terry Shiavo, creationism, and issues like these should not be in the political sphere.

Speedwagon82 on November 6, 2008 at 1:32 PM

The highly immoral need to realize that this is a political party, not the political wing of Atheism. Michael Newdow, evolution, and issues like these should not be in the political sphere.

FIFY.

TMK on November 6, 2008 at 2:05 PM

AmericanUnderground,
And we have most likely similar work and education experiences:I was a journalist for 11 years in my native country and I have a masters in public communications. So yes, it was painful for me to see McCain going like a broken record with cutting waitsful spending, eliminating earmarks and so on. Thats the core of the problem. Not that the conservtive ideeas are wrong or are out of touch but that they need to be made more understandable for the ordinary Joe. Thats all. As long as the GOP and the conservative movement won’t understand that they are going to be less and less succesfull.

clemycali on November 6, 2008 at 2:09 PM

We need to get these “moderates” out of the Republican Party!

lanesmerge on November 6, 2008 at 1:17 PM

Drop the christian right, that’s what has to be done.

ricardoz on November 6, 2008 at 1:01 PM

I don’t think kicking people out of the party, and making it smaller and more exclusive, will bring more votes. The GOP needs to stick to its core issues, and communicate them well to the American people. Exit polls showed that this country is center-right. Obama, once he won his party’s nomination, dropped most of the leftist rhetoric, and talked about cutting spending (except for certain programs), cutting taxes (for the middle class), and going after AQ (to appear strong on Defense). Those are issues that the GOP should win everytime. However, the American people didn’t believe McCain, despite his record, because the GOP has been largely responsible for wasteful spending and is viewed as having made serious blunders in the war.

Rick on November 6, 2008 at 2:11 PM

Basically, he’s saying “People who want to drop religion out of the GOP are actually saying they want abortion and gay marriage supported by conservatives”.

*eats*

Grue in the Attic on November 6, 2008 at 2:03 PM

That’s basically what I thought he said, and I disagree with it. The perception that Republicans want to force Christian-right values on everyone via legislation is a strong one, even if not entirely fair, and needs to be addressed.

I’m all for the promotion of religious liberty, and very much in favor of the separation of church and state.

Gilda on November 6, 2008 at 2:11 PM

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

If we kick religion out of politics then our whole government is null and void. Our government was established on the fact that our rights come from our Creator not the government and therefore only our Creator can take them away, never the government. Unalienable means cannot be disputed, absolute truth. If we take out the Creator then government has absolute power to give and take away these rights.

gatorgirl on November 6, 2008 at 2:11 PM

The problem is not the Christian Right, per se.

The problem is that some in the Christian Right want to use government and party to evangelize.

The GOP’s best position is not pushing religion, but protecting one’s private religious freedom.

Big difference.

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 1:50 PM

Said it better than I could. Ronald Reagan did not win by being a Jerry Falwell clone.

Speedwagon82 on November 6, 2008 at 2:11 PM

Finally Rush gets it talking about the market. Maybe the rightwing blogs will wake up. They need to yell this in every post everyday. Every pt down is now the dems fault.

unseen on November 6, 2008 at 2:12 PM

Why are there no women except Palin mentioned in this thread

?

Every conservative on here needs to look at this and think long and hard about how to reconcile conservative social principles with the undeniable reality that the Democrats are sweeping in and snatching up women left and right and putting them into positions of leadership. White women have supported the GOP less and less and less over the last decade and its because the House and Senate Republican caucuses are so overwhelmingly old boy. Sarah Palin was the first step, but she didn’t inspire PROFESSIONAL woman in large numbers because they resented what seemed to an example of a young, attractive woman getting promoted over an experienced hat like Kay Bailey Hutchison for example or Todd-Whitman.
If you righties want any chance over the next decade you need to start talking to women, see what women care about and respond.

DeathToMediaHacks on November 6, 2008 at 2:12 PM

Leaders won’t appear until after the new crew on the Hill and WH start laying out their new bills. At least not for me.

I don’t trust any of them right now. The first 100 days of the Pied Piper administration will tell us who is skipping and dancing to the tune and who refuses to join the parade.

Stop. Look. Listen. Decide.

Limerick on November 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM

Kicking the social cons out of the party would be doubly stupid, but we shouldn’t be pandering to them like Lizzy Dole was.

Speedwagon82 on November 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM

How about “none of the above” pushed at me from my government?

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:05 PM

Ooh, I don’t think you understand the depth of what you’re looking at. The founding fathers were wise in the set up of our constitution. The only ideology that has a history of adhering to your desire is a christian or jewish ideology.

I quoted Thomas Jefferson earlier:
“Can the liberties of a nation be sure when we remove their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people, that these liberties are a gift from God?”

A government completely disconnected from religion would be typified by:

Communism
Marxism
Fascism

There are other religions that could be discussed, but that becomes an academic argument, because there is invariably persecution of those who do not share belief systems.

So again, what is wrong with an evangelical approach? It will never be divorced from your right to choose to walk away, change the channel, or whatever.

Marine_Bio on November 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM

If we kick religion out of politics then our whole government is null and void.

gatorgirl on November 6, 2008 at 2:11 PM

So which brand of Christianity are we smoking to enjoy that long-lasting liberty? Because the way I read that statement, the Creator isn’t assigned to a religion. And the First Amendment was written, in part, to prevent government from pushing religion. You’re free to choose for yourself, be it worshipping an ashtray or Jesus.

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:15 PM

John Campbell of California might be good

tomas on November 6, 2008 at 2:17 PM

Well, thank you, but truth is truth. I get bent out of shape over the foolishness of Christian hatred. Without Christians and our 20th century support of Israel, this country would never have become the great nation it is. (Or at least was if this is the beginning of the decline.)

Marine_Bio on November 6, 2008 at 1:50 PM

The U.S. wasn’t great until Israel was created and it could support it? The U.S. was great long before 1948.

dedalus on November 6, 2008 at 2:18 PM

Ooh, I don’t think you understand the depth of what you’re looking at.

Nice condescension. Good witness, brother.

So again, what is wrong with an evangelical approach? It will never be divorced from your right to choose to walk away, change the channel, or whatever.

Marine_Bio on November 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM

I have no problem with an evangelical approach – just not from my government. Hard to change that channel if evangelicalism is pushed by the government. Of course, I could move from the US, but I kinda like it here.

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:18 PM

No one said anything about Christianity. Notice that our forefathers had the wonderful knowledge and foresight to not say “God” “Allah” “Budda” ect. Therefore, they were not establishing a religion, all the while acknowledging that we cannot have a nation of laws and undeniable rights without a higher power establishing them. If man, government, church, etc. gives the rights to us as human beings then any one of those can take them away.

gatorgirl on November 6, 2008 at 2:18 PM

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:15 PM

As a Big Bang Christian (OMG he is a what?!!!!) I agree.
Points we agree on, from my point of view, abortion, taxes, active defense, gun rights. Because I don’t cross myself in the same sequence as the other fella means squat.

Limerick on November 6, 2008 at 2:19 PM

The U.S. wasn’t great until Israel was created and it could support it? The U.S. was great long before 1948.

dedalus on November 6, 2008 at 2:18 PM

No, Israel wasn’t a nation prior to 1948. Once formed we supported it. There is a consistent promise by God that those who curse Israel will be cursed, and those who bless Israel will be blessed.

There is a relationship there.

Marine_Bio on November 6, 2008 at 2:20 PM

Terry Shiavo, creationism, and issues like these should not be in the political sphere.

Speedwagon82 on November 6, 2008 at 1:32 PM

Usually, the only ones who bring them into the arena are the anti-Christian haters who try to use it to destroy them. Go back through this thread… YOU were the first one to bring it up!

dominigan on November 6, 2008 at 2:21 PM

Three issues can bring back the GOP:

1. Small business
2. Education
3. Fiscal responsibility

My son is 15 and he supported McCain. In the national KidsVote election, 15-16 year olds favored McCain. These will be the new voters in 2012.

My son supported John Kerry in 2004 because of the war. Why did he support McCain? A 10 trillion dollar national debt. There’s a viral email going around with teens about how much each of them is going to “inherit” as their share of the debt when they get out of college and start working. They’re pissed about it. They saw Obama as promising trillions in more spending and makung their debt burden bigger.

Republicans can start winning these young voters by opposing every increase in the debt ceiling, any more bailouts or stimulus check-writing, and getting serious about an agenda for paying down the national debt.

rockmom on November 6, 2008 at 2:23 PM

I have no problem with an evangelical approach – just not from my government. Hard to change that channel if evangelicalism is pushed by the government. Of course, I could move from the US, but I kinda like it here.

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:18 PM

Ok, I simply don’t understand this mis-perception. Why are evangelicals always slammed, even though I have never heard one evangelical candidate propose using the office as a pulpit to preach from?????

Talk about bigotry in plain view…

dominigan on November 6, 2008 at 2:24 PM

Jeff Flake for minority leader

commodore on November 6, 2008 at 2:25 PM

No one said anything about Christianity. Notice that our forefathers had the wonderful knowledge and foresight to not say “God” “Allah” “Budda” ect. Therefore, they were not establishing a religion, all the while acknowledging that we cannot have a nation of laws and undeniable rights without a higher power establishing them. If man, government, church, etc. gives the rights to us as human beings then any one of those can take them away.

gatorgirl on November 6, 2008 at 2:18 PM

Color me confused about your initial point, then. What’s the necessity of religion in government? That’s how I read what you said, unless I misunderstood. And if you think religion in government is essential or our government is nullified without it, which religion?

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:25 PM

There is a relationship there.

Marine_Bio on November 6, 2008 at 2:20 PM

Support of Israel is good policy, but the U.S. can’t make its foreign policy decisions based on scripture and a hope not to be cursed.

dedalus on November 6, 2008 at 2:25 PM

The GOP’s problem isn’t just with women. How many black and hispanic candidates did they recruit for races in 2002 and 2004, when the party was much more popular?

Speedwagon82 on November 6, 2008 at 2:25 PM

Marine_Bio @ 2:20,
Well stated and those who don’t recognize this do so at their own folly.

thomasaur on November 6, 2008 at 2:27 PM

Because the way I read that statement, the Creator isn’t assigned to a religion. And the First Amendment was written, in part, to prevent government from pushing religion. You’re free to choose for yourself, be it worshipping an ashtray or Jesus.

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:15 PM

Then who is “Nature’s Creator”, as described many times in the founding and historical documents?

Have you even read the First Ammendment??? It guarantees freedom of speech, specifically against the Government and guarantees freedom OF religion.

And while the Federal Government was not allowed to establish a national church, Jefferson freely admitted that the states WERE allowed it.

No where has there EVER been a prohibition against religion within our government. It was a restriction of government entering into affairs of religion.

dominigan on November 6, 2008 at 2:28 PM

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:18 PM

Ok, 1 too many o’s. If that makes condescention in your percecption, so be it. It isn’t intended that way.

There is a relationship that you’re not getting. Your desire is to adhere to the constitution, which is that the federal government shall instate no religion. i.e. your can’t have one forced down your throat.

As the nation abandons the principles of the founding fathers this very desire of yours is in jeopardy.

Marine_Bio on November 6, 2008 at 2:28 PM

beatcanvas, the point is that our government is a nation founded on religious principals however the founders did not wish to establish a national religion. They were clear in that in the way they chose the language in the Declaration of Independence. It would not be wise to try to divorce religion from politics, however politics should not be used to force religion on anyone.

gatorgirl on November 6, 2008 at 2:31 PM

Ok, I simply don’t understand this mis-perception. Why are evangelicals always slammed, even though I have never heard one evangelical candidate propose using the office as a pulpit to preach from?????

Talk about bigotry in plain view…

dominigan on November 6, 2008 at 2:24 PM

In case you missed my point, I have no problem with evangelicals. I can even get behind one running for office. Or any religious person. Up to the point where that person starts pushing a religious agenda.

Case in point: Huckabee pardoning criminals to be “merciful” while governor. Another case in point: a local fella here who said that because the Book of Acts said that everyone in the early Christian church shared their things “as though common,” it’s important to get behind spreading the wealth.

I’d far sooner trust someone who believes that their citizenship is in the US than someone who believes their citizenship is in heaven. The latter won’t necessarily operate with an America-first agenda, and that’s the job of government, is it not? If mercy and generosity with other people’s things are the goals, then the proper office is deacon or pastor, not Senator or President.

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:32 PM

…politics should not be used to force religion on anyone.

gatorgirl on November 6, 2008 at 2:31 PM

I couldn’t agree with you more.

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:34 PM

Marine_Bio on November 6, 2008 at 2:28 PM

To clarify, the principles of our founding fathers that I was talking about are more accurately the moral values of our founding fathers.

Marine_Bio on November 6, 2008 at 2:35 PM

It would not be wise to try to divorce religion from politics, however politics should not be used to force religion on anyone.

gatorgirl on November 6, 2008 at 2:31 PM

It does require that appeals to principal be made in a language that can be shared among multiple religions, since an appeal to the authority of any one supernatural belief doesn’t translate fully across faiths.

dedalus on November 6, 2008 at 2:35 PM

The problem is that some in the Christian Right want to use government and party to evangelize.

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 1:50 PM

I call liar. Name names. Let’s hear it. Otherwise just cool it with the false allegations…

The fact is, Christian evangelicals have every right to a voice in government, the same as you do. Stop trying to repress that voice with lies and innuendo.

We believe that everyone has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Is that so radical to you? It wasn’t to our founding fathers.

We believe that God’s laws trump human laws, because humans are innately evil… they will try to rule over others in tyranny. Read the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution… Our founders believed the same.

We are not the radicals in this conversation.

dominigan on November 6, 2008 at 2:36 PM

You know what sounds good right about now?

ROMNEY/PALIN 2012.

NickTx on November 6, 2008 at 2:36 PM

Case in point: Huckabee pardoning criminals to be “merciful” while governor. Another case in point: a local fella here who said that because the Book of Acts said that everyone in the early Christian church shared their things “as though common,” it’s important to get behind spreading the wealth.

Agreed. Both could be viewed as extreme and luckily we live in a nation where we can excercise our vote and our voice and not put them in office. I always question anyone that “picks and chooses” verses from the bible to explain a specific political decision. And notice I said decisions not views.

gatorgirl on November 6, 2008 at 2:39 PM

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:32 PM

Not so. I challenge you to find one verse… not two or three… but one verse that advocates stealing from one person to give to another.

Jesus commanded individuals to charity, not government. Anyone espousing that from a pulpit should be called a hypocrite of the highest order, and a blasphemer in God’s sight.

dominigan on November 6, 2008 at 2:39 PM

Case in point: Huckabee pardoning criminals to be “merciful” while governor.

I do not consider this Biblical and would challenge Huckabee that he was not properly representing scripture. God is not just love, but also just. If he properly understood God’s word, he would understand that a price must be paid for the crime.

dominigan on November 6, 2008 at 2:42 PM

I call liar. Name names. Let’s hear it. Otherwise just cool it with the false allegations…

Good gravy, are you serious with that? Every Republican politician seeking the presidency has to get James Dobson’s blessing or he threatens that the evangelical vote might pick up its ball and go home.

Did you like miss the entire Republican primary? Romney? Giuliani? Even McCain?

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:42 PM

In case you missed my point, I have no problem with evangelicals. *** Up to the point where that person starts pushing a religious agenda. Case in point: Huckabee pardoning criminals to be “merciful” while governor. Another case in point: a local fella here who said that because the Book of Acts said that everyone in the early Christian church shared their things “as though common,” it’s important to get behind spreading the wealth. ***
beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:32 PM

I am very concerned about the future of evangelicals. They appear to be moving leftward in terms of their positions on the environment, tax, and fiscal policy. George Bush’s “compassionate conservative” agenda was part of it. And some of their agenda items, e.g. the teaching of creationism in public schools, really turns people off.

I think evangelicals need to seriously examine Neo Calvinist theories of economics — namely, that limited government, free markets and capitalism are the best vehicle to enhance human dignity and reflect the glory of God. I think a lot of Christians are too quick to think that government tax & transfer programs, and environmental regulation, and so forth are compatible with Christian principles. Upon close examination, I believe they are not. Government regulation and tax & transfer is NOT a method of implementing, nor a substitute for, Christian charity.

Outlander on November 6, 2008 at 2:43 PM

And while the Federal Government was not allowed to establish a national church, Jefferson freely admitted that the states WERE allowed it.

dominigan on November 6, 2008 at 2:28 PM

Jefferson might have held that view, but that was before the Civil War and the 14th Amendment. The 1947 “Everson v. Board of Education” decision is clear on the Establishment Clause applying to the states.

dedalus on November 6, 2008 at 2:44 PM

The GOP’s problem isn’t just with women. How many black and hispanic candidates did they recruit for races in 2002 and 2004, when the party was much more popular?

Not too many and we see that now when the party s almost exctinct in NV, when we lost OH, PA, FL, NV, CO and we might very well see AZ and TX becoming more and more purple. Food for the thought.

clemycali on November 6, 2008 at 2:44 PM

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:42 PM

The evangelical people DID pick up their balls and went home this election cycle. Turnout for McCain was very poor, volunteerism for his campaign was way down, etc. Evangelicals drive a lot of that.

Remember: Obama won not so much because he attracted bajillions of extra voters over what Kerry got in 2004, he won because McCain attracted 7-8 million FEWER voters than Bush got in 2004.

Outlander on November 6, 2008 at 2:44 PM

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:42 PM

And did Romney, Giuliani or McCain promise to preach from the Presidential office like you accused them? What is wrong with getting endorsements? Or is it only Christian endorsements that bother you? James Dobson is not the leader of a bunch of brainless sheep, like many assume. He offers advice… however true Christians will always measure that against God’s Word to determine truth.

dominigan on November 6, 2008 at 2:45 PM

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:42 PM

That statement makes sense as a response?

An endorsement from James Dobson does not an example of the Christian Right using government and party to evangelize make.

Marine_Bio on November 6, 2008 at 2:46 PM

Sarah Palin was the first step, but she didn’t inspire PROFESSIONAL woman in large numbers because they resented what seemed to an example of a young, attractive woman getting promoted over an experienced hat like Kay Bailey Hutchison for example or Todd-Whitman.

DeathToMediaHacks on November 6, 2008 at 2:12 PM

Gee, I thought you were talking about Obama for a minute there! ;-P

I’m a professional woman who worked in a male-dominated field for many years (science), but I never got that hit off of Palin. I think she is clearly a self-made person who also has a very supportive husband.

I did get a hit of someone benefitting from their husband’s achievements and connections off of Hillary and, to a lesser extent, Elizabeth Dole.

Anyway, at this stage of the game I think we need to focus on people’s ideas and political skills, not what they look like. I think R’s are no worse than D’s at placing qualified women in positions of power. (The D’s just beat us on unqualified women — and minorities — in high offices.)

Y-not on November 6, 2008 at 2:46 PM

beatcanvas on November 6, 2008 at 2:42 PM

James Dobson does not speak for all evangelicals. They are not mindless robots that support a candidate because he says to.

gatorgirl on November 6, 2008 at 2:48 PM

Addendum: Blunt resigned with characteristic class

Message asked to be forwarded: Sounds Familiar! Honor’s worth something at least, even in politics. Our kudos to Blunt.

Let’s hope this somewhat dislodges the downward spiral into yet another religionism smash that this thread is starting to become…

*eats*

Grue in the Attic on November 6, 2008 at 2:48 PM

The Chairman of the GOP is more critical now then either Senate or House leader.

Jdripper on November 6, 2008 at 2:50 PM

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