Notes from the collapse
posted at 10:35 am on November 5, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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This morning, after having absorbed the substantial victory of Barack Obama, I noticed a couple of interesting items in the data. Barack Obama certainly won this race, but he won it with just a little more votes than George Bush won in his re-election bid, and the turnout models came up short.
In 2004, Bush beat John Kerry by winning 62.04 million votes. In 2008, Obama won 62.443 million, a gain of only 400,000. In 2004, Kerry garnered 59.028 million votes; John McCain only got 55.386 million. That means this election saw 3.24 million fewer votes than four years ago. Far from being more energized, the nation appeared to be more apathetic.
Using these numbers, we can see that Barack Obama succeeded in turning out his base much more effectively than McCain did his. How do we know that it’s a base turnout rather than a tsunami of opinion to Democrats? For one thing, Dems didn’t pick up a boatload of new seats in the House, and they may underperform expectations yet in the Senate. They did gain some strength with independents, but only gaining between 11-20 seats in the House tells us that they found votes in districts they already control, more than finding converts.
There’s nothing wrong with that; George Bush won two elections doing the same thing. He only gained 3 million votes over John Kerry’s 2004 performance. It does reflect a certain brittleness about Obama’s support that may not be evident in the flush of his Electoral College victory. That doesn’t mean he can’t broaden his appeal after winning office, but it does mean that he primarily won among friendlies and not through appeals to bipartisanship.
John McCain and the GOP didn’t get their turnout in this race. They lost almost seven million voters from 2004, a rather stunning number. We’ll be chewing on this for a while, but that’s more than 10% of the Bush vote that got lost in this election. Did they stay home, or did significant numbers of them defect to Obama? I’m guessing the former. The GOP demoralized their base by acting like Democrats for too many years, and the winds of “change” proved too dispiriting this time around.
Is it his fault? I don’t think it’s his fault as much as the historical trend. Republicans faced two strong headwinds in this race: history and their own fecklessness as a party. History tells us that the White House almost always changes party after two terms with one, and Bush is a particularly disliked incumbent. The Republican Party lost its soul when it launched its K Street Project, and the spendfest of 2001-6 only made that more clear.
If the GOP wants to win 60 million votes in future national elections, it has to stand for something other than being Democrat Lite. The Republican Party needs clarity, purpose, and most importantly, an end to the hypocrisy of talking smaller government while porking up their districts. When given only a choice between real Democrats and fake Democrats, Americans will choose the former, which we found out in 2006.
Update: I wrote “latter” when I meant “former”; I don’t think that defections account for Obama’s victory.
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I found a site with the breakdown, (CNN actually has a decent map, who would have thought?)
The difference in the election, despite what the electoral college seems to show, is only about half a million votes, spread out over states that cast a total of over 20.5 million votes (OH, VA, CO, FL NC). In Ohio the difference is 206k in votes, and we all know how many people ACORN signed up there (about 600k).
Really distressing to think about. I think Mac did a bunch of stuff incorrectly, but the press is really blowing this out of proportion. It could easily have been that Obama would have won the popular vote and Mac the electoral college, with just about 500,000 votes.
linlithgow on November 5, 2008 at 4:54 PM
We can start by encouraging members of the military to start and complete school. This way federal funding can cover the bulk of conservative education costs. I completed my Bachelor’s during my active duty service period without touching more than a few thousand dollars of my GI bill.
At any rate, that lady on youtube lied to me. I woke up this morning and still had to worry about how I was going to get a mortgage (they don’t even want to lend to people that have good credit history now), and I still had to worry about how I was going to put gas in the car.
leetpriest on November 5, 2008 at 4:56 PM
McCain made mistakes and so did Obama.
The difference? The media covered up Obama and blew everything McCain did out of proportion. The media planned on Obama winning and destroyed everyone in his way for him.
stefystef on November 5, 2008 at 4:56 PM
[[Taking back the education system should be a high priority for conservatives. It will be extremely difficult, because of the vast entrenched union and government apparatus in the way, and it will take years, but it can be done.
Doctor Zero on November 5, 2008]]]
yours is probably the most important point in this whole thread and i completely agree.
I don’t think it would take too long if we used the left-wing approach. Just find case after case of “indoctrination” and file law suit after law suit against individual school disctricts until we put the fear of God in the rest of them. We could even enlist the ACLU in the process and make them prove they are not partisan.
This approach would take more money than time.
Goodeye_Closed on November 5, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Downside: Obama has clearly proven his ability to ignore facts that disagree with his positions. He may do so again.
Count to 10 on November 5, 2008 at 4:57 PM
sorry for the double post ;(
Goodeye_Closed on November 5, 2008 at 4:58 PM
I understand why you think that, but experience tells us that high taxes reduces philanthropy. I’m not a tax attorney, but I guess whatever tax breaks you get from charitable giving do not outweigh the losses you experience from higher taxes. And, I think in Obama’s case it is going to be even worse than that — because his high taxes are all about Big Government through social programs. I predict that if he succeeds in converting U.S. to a European-flavored socialism, U.S. philanthropy will go down. Why should someone give to a charity when Government provides everything? Look at the giving patterns of people in Europe and you’ll see what I mean. England is the best, to my knowledge, and they don’t hold a candle to us. And the cut-off for “rich” in the figures I quoted above was $200,000. Sorry, that ain’t rich in my book… not if you’ve started out poor and worked your way to that income after a couple of decades, just when your kids are in college and you are saving for retirement.
Colleges and universities are about to get nailed. Now, before all of you academia-haters cheer with glee, remember I am a former faculty member… I know how incredibly annoying professors are from first-hand experience and it was a big part of why I left the ivory tower. But we have the greatest university system in the world. It is a big reason why we are the world’s innovators and business leaders and builders etc etc. If our universities start to fail, we all will suffer… not just the Bill Ayers and Ward Churchills of the world.
Ok, I’m rambling — sorry. I’m quite upset about this Obama thing. I hate him for stealing the election and I fear what he will do with Nancy and Harry backing him up. The fact that the liberal academics are cheering the results of an election that will hurt their own enterprise, and all of us, is the big moldy cherry on top of a cr@ppy election.
Y-not on November 5, 2008 at 4:58 PM
Goodeye_Closed on November 5, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Worth a shot. Something’s got to be done.
thecountofincognito on November 5, 2008 at 4:58 PM
Obama ran as a centrist, talked like a conservative even in his acceptance speech and failed to create a movement around his beliefs. conservative need to regoup and find a clear point by point policy similar similar to the Contract of America. They also need a leader who can sell this plan to the American people effectively, a voice which people will listen to.
Daemonocracy on November 5, 2008 at 5:00 PM
Yes, or ignore where he has to make a decision…even worse.
right2bright on November 5, 2008 at 5:00 PM
If they did, then shame on them, no matter what the GOP have done, does not give them a pass for letting a radical socailist become president to make things worse.
MAB on November 5, 2008 at 5:04 PM
I call your attention to Ochiltree County in the Northern Panhandle;McCain got 92% of the vote, only 2851 votes, but a lot of pro McCain sentiment in the Panhandle.
Checking Fox map, it appears the Mr 0 got the urban vote. The rural and mediun sized counties generally went for McCain.
Pelayo on November 5, 2008 at 5:05 PM
4 years from now, most of those Southern and Midwestern idiots that voted for the black guy to be cool will vote for whoever stands up to Third World lunatics.
Speedwagon82 on November 5, 2008 at 5:07 PM
Well there’s this thought, McCain country covers much more area. Check the maps state by state. Even Ohio is a vast sea of red with small islands of blue.
Pelayo on November 5, 2008 at 5:10 PM
Ayers and Churchill will be busy having dinner at the White House.
progressoverpeace on November 5, 2008 at 5:13 PM
[[[Why should someone give to a charity when Government provides everything?
Y-not on November 5, 2008]]]
Yes, and the money that was given freely will now be TAKEN and used to help politicians retain power (it almost NEVER goes to improve schools or build meaningful infrastructure)
And…who will do the job of keeping the African continent on life support once America goes solid socialist? Do we just get a double dose of Euro-level taxation to keep up our nation building/world aid to the level everyone on the globe has become accustomed to? Are we, the American taxpayer, to just be the world’s biggest dupe because leftists the world over think we deserve it?
If taxing our tea imports was the final straw in our infancy, what will it take for us to say enough is enough now? SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE BEFORE WE REACH THE BOILING POINT!
Goodeye_Closed on November 5, 2008 at 5:14 PM
Sigh — doubly-so in Obama’s case. He is not going to give up power willingly.
Y-not on November 5, 2008 at 5:18 PM
Are you the guy that Manly Rash had the bet with? He took it awfully seriously, and is not going to post here anymore. It’s a shame, because he cheered us up and made us laugh a lot. But his sense of honor won’t let him come back, I think, and I don’t know how to persuade him. Those friends of his here should get together off-thread and think of something. Everyone’s hurting today, those who went out far on the limb the worst. But we also understand that it was pre-election bravado (at least most of us do). Sometimes one just “knows”, Manly, and one still gets it wrong. Do think about it, and laugh at yourself, and come back.
Fortunata on November 5, 2008 at 5:18 PM
+1
Y-not on November 5, 2008 at 5:18 PM
True.
The parasitic underclass congregates in and around large urban areas where welfare offices and other social service are assessable and convenient. And of course they’re all Democrats.
rplat on November 5, 2008 at 5:22 PM
Yes, you are right.
Problem is, the Republicans don’t have a leader right now.
Good luck with that.
stefystef on November 5, 2008 at 5:24 PM
The bright side…we can observe the left groups destroy each other over the next 4 years. Too many interest groups wanting their pie.
The downside…the country will be going down the tubes.
JayJay123 on November 5, 2008 at 5:26 PM
Actually, speaking of Wright and Ayers, any bets on whether or not Reverend Wright will be giving the invocation at Obama’s inauguration?
Y-not on November 5, 2008 at 5:26 PM
I totally agree! The average American who does not follow politics has no idea what true conservatism means. To millions of Americans, the word “Republican” simply means a rich white guy trying to get richer by keeping everyone else down. The conservatives need a voice or voices which can effectively articulate their goals and why everyone will benefit.
Bookkeeper on November 5, 2008 at 5:29 PM
A combo of a MSM coup d’etat and a weak, “gentlemanly” candidate… pussyfooting in a dirty alley fight… lost for the Republicans.
Along with a mush-mouthed president who couldn’t defend a perfectly defensible policy. (Resulting in NO terrorist attacks since 9/11.)
And a Republican Congress (and McCain) that failed to pin the blame for the economic diasaster on the 2006 Dem majority as they needed to.
A TOTAL incompetent clusterfark.
Now, maybe STRONG Conservatism will be tried?
profitsbeard on November 5, 2008 at 5:30 PM
Everyone keeps saying 4 more years, but it will be 8 years.
Uncle_Aina on November 5, 2008 at 5:30 PM
Otis Moss might do it, I would guess. They were together for a day on the campaign trail, just a few days ago. Ignored by the media, as was Moss’ idiotic sermon after Wright left and BHO said the new “reverend” was a ‘nice young minister’ or something to that effect.
It’s all coming. In your face, as they say.
progressoverpeace on November 5, 2008 at 5:31 PM
The only thing I will live for in the next 4 years is to see Obama defeated and the European/World Community cry when we elected a conservative.
Speedwagon82 on November 5, 2008 at 5:31 PM
Is it true that Obama’s new puppy is named Karl?
And would that be Rove or Marx?
profitsbeard on November 5, 2008 at 5:35 PM
The bright side? My house hasn’t been this clean in many months.
The downside? After 4 years I may not have an excuse to bug my hubby anymore about wanting a maid…:)
pcbedamned on November 5, 2008 at 5:38 PM
Hopefully, many of the fresh conservative faces will step forward and provide new leadership.
Common “wisdom” is that the losing party needs to move to the Center, while I believe (& see many comments here that confirm it) that we lost precisely because we’ve drifted away from the values and principles that helped us gain the support of a majority of the electorate back in the 90’s.
Hoping Newt Gingrich i svery active in helping define 9again) what a conservative is, but also hoping he does NOT run for office. I’d prefer to see younger people like Palin and Jindal become the standardbearers for conservatisism as we move forward.
Red State State of Mind on November 5, 2008 at 5:44 PM
I’m just glad it’s over. My poor son, aged 13 woke up this morning and I told him “O” won. He was so devastated. Although he is a fine young man, I’ve never really seen him cry. He’s over it now.
It’ll be nice for me to get back to pilates and yoga.
As a successful long-term small business owner, I will not pay anymore taxes. Nor will I stand for a ceiling on my accomplishments and success designed to reward those who do nothing and contribute nothing. Hell, call me selfish. Like I give a rat’s ass. I will live in “abject poverty” on paper from hence forth. Like I did when Clintoon was in office. Heh.
Congratulations, Mister Obama. There are millions just like me.
Key West Reader on November 5, 2008 at 5:49 PM
They’ve got to keep up the pretense that Obama is shocked and dismayed *wink wink* at the Rev. Wright’s surprise *wink wink* racist outbursts that Obama has never seen before until the press aired the best of DVD that was on sale in the lobby.
Wink Wink.
At the conclusion of his presidency, I’d like to see a list of the people who get to stay overnight in the Lincoln Bedroom. If Ayers and Dorhn are ever invited, I suspect that they’ll pull the bed two feet back, and both piss on the wall, and not tell anyone until Obama is out of office.
wise_man on November 5, 2008 at 5:54 PM
This is good news. It means enough conservatives have had enough of these spend-crazy quick-to-compromise moderates in the Republican party. The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced that the party needed to lose this election, and resoundingly. It shatters the flawed idea that anything but real conservatism – especially fiscal responsibility – is not going to appeal to the electorate.
I held my nose and voted for McCain, urging others to do so as well, out of fear of Obama’s Marxist beliefs and where he’d lead the country with the help of big majorities in Congress. But if McCain had won, we’d still face many of the same challenges. But when things go south over the next couple of years – as they almost inevitably will – the liberals and their comrades in the media would make sure to pin it on the Republican party. As appealing as Palin in 2012 seems, it would be almost impossible to acheive after a McCain presidency.
No party is going to hold the office for 16 years in a row. We might as well clean house of the RINOs while letting Obama and the rest of the hard left remind everyone why we don’t trust liberal policy in this country. Surely they can’t screw things up so badly over the next four years that they can’t be patched up by responsible conservative government.
Sign of the Dollar on November 5, 2008 at 5:58 PM
The moderate Republicans in this party won’t even stand by one of their own anymore if he is trailing in the weeks leading up to the election. Poor John McCain. He did everything they wanted him to do. And they still deserted him like rats.
The David Brooks’, the Peggy Noonan’s, the Christopher Buckley’s, the Kathleen Parker’s, they all jumped ship because they could see what was coming.
I’m a big fan of Ann Coulter, have been for years. Michelle Malkin too.
Question: If you’ve read any of Ann’s columns over the years, and Michelle’s, did you ever notice what sort of opinion they have of the people that have been running the Republican Party even before Ronald Reagan rode off into the sunset?
Do they have a high opinion of them or a low opinion of them?
If you’ve read their columns, you know very well that Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin have an EXTREMELY LOW OPINION of the current leadership in the Republican Party.
What reasons have been given for this very low opinion?
I can remember several.
1. They don’t fight back. They spend a lot of time apologizing…..AFTER they have been unjustly attacked.
2. They really don’t believe in conservatism, they don’t think conservative issues are winning issues, and therefore treat the vast conservative base as almost an afterthought. They think forming a party that appeals to Dem’s and Indys is more important than building a party that appeals to conservatives.
Here’s your big heaping dose of reality, my fellow conservatives:
A real conservative hasn’t run for President since Reagan in 1984. That was almost 25 years ago.
Who’s headed each Republican ticket since then?
George H.W. Bush / Dan Quayle? Elected to one term, basically on the STRENGTH of promising to continue Reagan’s successful policies. Unfortunately, as quickly became apparent (and was known all along inside Washington) Bush the Elder was no conservative; he was a moderate Republican and quickly reneged on some key principles, including breaking his promise not to raise taxes.
Here we see the “Moderate Republican/Solid Conservative” model tried and it worked – for one election. Dukakis ran proudly as a liberal, the last Dem. candidate to do so, making Bush’s job much easier.
But against a Southern Governor running as a conservative ‘New Democrat’, the Clinton/Gore ticket managed to make Bush /Quayle look clueless and listless and tied to Washington.
Had the Dem’s run a out and proud liberal Bush might have held his own even still, but against a fresh face, a ‘conservative’ Dem from the South, old Washington hand Bush looked out of touch.
So the moderate Republican loses to the ‘New Democrat’ who really was an ultra-liberal running in disguise.
Well by 1996 Bill Clinton’s mask had dropped off. The country had watched scandal after scandal envelop him as well as seeing him break most of his campaign promises and governing as a doctrinaire liberal (something that led to the Republicans ‘invading’ Congress and ’seizing’ power in the 1994 mid-terms).
So how is it a vulnerable Clinton won re-election handily?
Simple.
The moderate Republicans running the RNCC made sure one of their most moderate number won the nomination. Bob Dole.
Doles’ “It’s My Turn And I’d Like The Job Even Though I Don’t Have Any Big Ideas or Direction I’d Like To Take The Country In” campaign was as listless, lost and meandering as the one we just watched McCain suffer through.
Republican pundits like to focus on the fact that Dole got outspent 3 to 1 (while Obama just outspent McCain by an even larger margin – 5 to 1), but the simple fact of the matter is even if he had more money to spend that Clinton, Dole had no coherent message.
Once again the ’safe’ method of putting a Moderate Conservative at the top of the ticket with a Strong Conservative sidekick was tried. Bob Dole teamed up with Jack Kemp was supposed to be a ticket that would appeal to conservative Dems and independents,while pulling in some conservatives as well.
Despite the fact that the country knew exactly what it was getting….again…..it opted to return the Clintons to the White House rather than give Dole the job.
So…..gearing up for the 2000 campaign, the Republican party decided to……..try the same thing again.
It found a Moderate Republican in Texas Governor George W. Bush, teamed him up with Dick Cheney, and ran him against Al Gore / Joe Lieberman.
What resulted was the closest election in modern history.
After winning the nomination by appealing to the conservative base, Bush then moved to the middle and tried the key RNCC strategy of trying to draw Dem’s and Indys to the ticket.
Instead he almost lost the election.
Not content with almost screwing up 2000, Karl Rove and others convinced Bush to try it again in 2004, where once again Bush tacked to the middle, and instead of slaughtering John Kerry like he should have, Bush managed a narrow win.
Having learned absolutely nothing from 2000 and 2004, the RNCC decided to set up the nomination process for 2008 so that the most moderate/liberal parts of the country would choose the RNC frontrunner for the primaries. This was their strategy to ensure yet again that a Moderate Republican wound up on the top of the ticket.
And it worked.
John McCain won the nomination, then tried to get the conservative base to hop aboard the bandwagon by selecting Sarah Palin, Strong Conservative Governor of Alaska as his running mate.
The strategy, once again, was to have McCain tack strongly to the middle as a Moderate Republican so as to appeal to the 50 or so Moderate Republicans in the country, while also drawing in conservative Dem’s and independantes, as Palin worked the heartland and drew in the hicks and bible-thumpers and hoi polloi from the Red States.
And once this time….not only did this flawed strategy not produce a narrow win, it instead delivered an election landslide in favor of a 1st term Senator with absolutely no record to run on.
What does this mean for 2012?
Here’s your second Big Heaping Dose of Reality, my conservative friends.
The current Republican Party leadership is NOT GOING ANYWHERE unless BIG changes are made.
Unless something is done, STARTING NOW, they will STILL BE THERE IN 2012.
AND IF YOU THINK THERE’S ANY CHANCE AT ALL THEY LET A REAL CONSERVATIVE ANYWHERE NEAR THE TOP OF THEIR TICKET, YOU ARE DREAMING, MY FRIENDS.
Sarah Palin in 2012?
Are you NUTS?
Did you not just see what happened the last 7 weeks?
After trying to make her the ‘fall guy’ for their failed strategy, and not even waiting for the election to be over before starting to point fingers at her, do you REALLY THINK these same people turn around and hand their nomination to her in 2012?
You’re DREAMING.
In 2012 we end up with another Moderate Republican with some ’safe’ conservative tacked on as an afterthought to appeal to the hicks out there.
Plus every real conservative politician out there just had a 7 week primer on what they can expect should they step up to the plate even as the VP pick on the ticket.
They AND THEIR FAMILY can expect to get a big heaping dose of what Sarah Palin just got.
Sarah Palin in 2012?
She can throw her hat in the ring if she wants, but if she thinks the RNCC is going to even give her an exploratory phone call she’s sadly mistaken. As far as they are concerned, they wouldn’t mind if they never saw her again.
Would she even volunteer to put herself and her family through this again starting in 2010? She might. But if she does I’m letting you know right now, I’m preparing you all for the distinct lack of enthusiasm the Republican Party leadership would have for putting her anywhere near their ticket.
She would have to do what Reagan did, which is to build a coalition so strong and so big and so powerful that despite getting turned away for Ford in 1976, by 1980 even the RNCC had to finally hand him nomination, albeit reluctantly.
Could she do it?
I don’t know. I hope she would. We need to have strong conservative leaders rise up and challenge these spineless cowards that are currently running the Republican party. She could be the first of many.
We have 2 years until the mid-terms in 2010. A lot can happen until then.
One of the things I hope to see happen is a huge hue and cry among conservatives everywhere as they see what Barack and Co. have planned for our country and focusing that outrage on the RNCC leadership and kicking them all out when it becomes apparent they not only have no coherent strategy to take the Democrats on, they are still stuck trying the same failed ideas of the past.
Barack Obama was not inevitable.
We have a RNCC that insists on running Moderate Republicans because they are CONVINCED conservatives ‘frighten’ the country and could never win so they will never allow one to be at the top of their precious ticket.
It’s time for a change – and THIS is change we conservatives can believe in.
manofaiki on November 5, 2008 at 6:05 PM
I think the Republican party really needs a hard rethink on how to reshape their party for the next round of elections. I am an immigrant, and I would have to say that the Democrats this time around were a LOT more inclusive group than the GOP (just compare the conventions, and you will know what I am talking about). The GOP needs to be more varied, stress less on social conservatism and more on fiscal conservatism to win over the independents in droves. I am almost thinking about Bobby Jindal (I know he may not be as inspiring to the base as Palin).
Oh by the way, the “real” Americans as defined by social conservatives will definitely be a minority by 2050, if not earlier.
Cheers,
The Family Guy.
peter_griffin on November 5, 2008 at 6:16 PM
Yep and you can bet Jindal is targeting 2016 as his time. Couple of successful terms as governor, get his network in place during that time and he should be ready for prime time.
Palin will be the answer in trivial pursuit games.
Bradky on November 5, 2008 at 6:17 PM
as mentioned, something similar to a Contract with America would be a great way to clearly communicate conservative values and explain what voters could expect from Republicans.
Red State State of Mind on November 5, 2008 at 6:20 PM
And voters will remember that it took about 2 years after the Contract with America before the GOP had gone Washington on them.
Bradky on November 5, 2008 at 6:21 PM
That’s a very pessimistic opinion. If that logic applied to the electorate, why would they keep re-electing liberals offering the same old arguments ?
It makes sense to me to start having a very defined list of principles and policies that republicans should be known for. The fact that prior Republicans fell away from that isn’t a game changer.
Red State State of Mind on November 5, 2008 at 6:24 PM
Historical trends show that the out party gains seats in the off years. The Dems have only had control of the house and senate for 2 years. Sticking to a couple of key principles is the right idea but a contract is a gimmick and will be treated as such.
Bradky on November 5, 2008 at 6:26 PM
Uh, why do you say that? He hasn’t even started governing yet. It is hard to tell.
terryannonline on November 5, 2008 at 6:31 PM
It is pretty hard to knock off an incumbent. The economy will impact the 2010 elections, helping the GOP but by 2012 it will likely be in pretty good shape, helping Obama get re-elected.
Bradky on November 5, 2008 at 6:34 PM
Very true. It’s been pretty hard to knock off an incumbent lately. However, we don’t know he will govern so it’s hard to tell whether once he gets in there people will not like what they see. What if there is some huge scandal and he’s not re-elected? Although I pray for the sake of America there is no scandal, we don’t need that. My point is it’s too early to tell.
terryannonline on November 5, 2008 at 6:41 PM
Do you mean white Americans? I too am an non-white immigrant but I know that conservatism should be defined by principles not skin color. I realise that many Hispanics and Blacks are socially conservative but as long as the Dems are in favor of expanding welfare they will have their support. Those immigrant groups and individuals that have worked hard to make their way will vote Republican, but only if they can see through Democrat pandering. We need to attract minorities, but not by a quota system.
Fortunata on November 5, 2008 at 6:44 PM
true enough but I think the GOP needs to focus on the house first, let the white house go on hold at least until after the 2010 elections which may give a better idea of the country’s mood.
The GOP also needs to collectively be adults and work with Obama as much as practical. If they take the high ground it pays dividends.
Bradky on November 5, 2008 at 6:46 PM
The weakness with the GOP relative to minorities is that it has done an extremely poor job of framing conservative ideals in ways that resonate with the minorities.
My personal opinion is that both parties are better served when the demographic groups are largely split 50-50. Not because of quotas but it forces the parties to really pay attention to what people want and expect.
Bradky on November 5, 2008 at 6:48 PM
There’s no personal scandal big enough to bring down this guy, after all that Clinton did. It will be scandalous to lose wars that we should have won (or skillfully avoided) but I know the MSM will never let us know that.
Fortunata on November 5, 2008 at 6:49 PM
Yes, there are are economically successful minority groups that can be appealed to. It’s important not to fall into the trap that Dems do of calling it “setting races against each other”, though. A matter of tone, perhaps?
Fortunata on November 5, 2008 at 6:53 PM
Yep. Obama could be caught barbecuing infants on the WH lawn and serving them up on rolls with Grey Poupon mustard — it wouldn’t matter.
OK, now I am officially depressed. I need a break. Then I need to decide if I am going to try to convince my hubby to move to Idaho or some other nice red state (preferably with mountains).
Y-not on November 5, 2008 at 6:54 PM
Exactly. Take the immigration bill for example. The objections to it were understandable but rather than making the extra effort to focus on the benefits of getting a better bill as would apply to legal citizens of Hispanic heritage it got out of hand. Bush carried 40% of the Hispanic vote in 2004. McCain came nowhere near that and I believe the way the objections to the immigration bill were handled played a large reason for that.
Bradky on November 5, 2008 at 6:57 PM
Yes the media carries water for Dems. However, truth has a way of being brought into the light. You know?
terryannonline on November 5, 2008 at 7:00 PM
PLEASE READ THIS!!!
Alright everyone you have until tomorrow to be depressed and then it is time to FIGHT BACK!
We have been here before! PLEASE READ THIS
Let Them Go Their Way
Governor Ronald Reagan (R-CA)
Conservative Political Action Conference
Washington, DC
March 1, 1975
Since our last meeting we have been through a disastrous election. It is easy for us to be discouraged, as pundits hail that election as a repudiation of our philosophy and even as a mandate of some kind or other. But the significance of the election was not registered by those who voted, but by those who stayed home. If there was anything like a mandate it will be found among almost two-thirds of the citizens who refused to participate.
Bitter as it is to accept the results of the November election, we should have reason for some optimism. For many years now we have preached “the gospel,” in opposition to the philosophy of so-called liberalism which was, in truth, a call to collectivism.
Now, it is possible we have been persuasive to a greater degree than we had ever realized. Few, if any, Democratic party candidates in the last election ran as liberals. Listening to them I had the eerie feeling we were hearing reruns of Goldwater speeches. I even thought I heard a few of my own.
Bureaucracy was assailed and fiscal responsibility hailed. Even George McGovern donned sackcloth and ashes and did penance for the good people of South Dakota.
Intriguing? The rest of the speech is here…………..
http://www.conservative.org/pressroom/reagan/reagan1975.asp
gatorgirl on November 5, 2008 at 7:02 PM
Filibuster is the NAME of the GAME
Jamson64 on November 5, 2008 at 7:03 PM
It is time to take our party back from the RINOs.
The future lies with Jindal, Steele, Palin, Cantor and others.
We need to no longer be the party of the “old white guys.”
gatorgirl on November 5, 2008 at 7:04 PM
And picking your battles wisely is always the best strategy. Not going to be able to filibuster everything or 2010 will get the Dems to 60 seats.
Bradky on November 5, 2008 at 7:05 PM
Come and join us in the Peoples’ Republic of Austin, Texas. It’s no more anti-American than my other boltholes, and the weather’s better.
Fortunata on November 5, 2008 at 7:07 PM
I don’t think we are, look at the gorgeousness of own media cheerleaders. But too many of the politicians are, yes. But hell, we’re about principles, not skin color identities.
Fortunata on November 5, 2008 at 7:10 PM
Fortunata, you are exactly right, but look at who has been running the GOP. Palin is being thrown under the bus and Michael Steele has practically been ignored. We need both of them and others like them to take this party back from the old guys
gatorgirl on November 5, 2008 at 7:13 PM
The more i learn about the inside of the McCain campane the less i like him.Have seen several stores today about how McCain and his staff treated Palin they tryed to stab her in the back from day one .McCain tryed to keep her away from Rush and all the people on talk radio.He set her up on the interveiws with his good friends in the drive by media instead. He did not want her to hold press conf. by herself because she had a mind of her own and on alot of things she did not agree with him.I also found out she has a temper does not like the MSM or libs and does not suffer fools.She is also not afraid to tell them what she thinks of them.Also it is reported that Mccains family and staff looked down on her and her family you know not up to there social standing.In other words she is one of us.I just hope the time she spent with McCain did not change her. She has also inquire about Ia. & HN for 2012 .
thmcbb on November 5, 2008 at 7:13 PM
Good post! I wish I didn’t have this fluttering feeling about foreign events, however. Carter won in ‘76 and these huge problems with the tiny country of Iran today are directly attributable to his fumbling.
Fortunata on November 5, 2008 at 7:13 PM
Perception is reality to most. It is time to remake our party, by bringing those that have been in the shadows into the light.
gatorgirl on November 5, 2008 at 7:14 PM
McCain aids throw Palin under the bus. Sad.
bluejacket on November 5, 2008 at 7:15 PM
I admit I was very upset last night. God, I got shit faced and was throwing stuff, cussing, crying. But I woke up this morning with the reality that Obama is going to be our next president. Not a damn thing I can do, except pray, start saving a little bit more and hope like hell he blows it so bad the first 4 years that he doesn’t stand a snowballs chance in hell in 2012. All we can do now is stay focused, write to our congressmen and senators and tell them to grow a freaking spine and concentrate on 2010.
We’re gonna be okay people. This is America.
And Manly, if you are out there, come back dude. You brightened many a peoples day.
jewells45 on November 5, 2008 at 7:15 PM
I’ve been posting about this in various threads. I hope he’s still reading here and reconsiders.
Fortunata on November 5, 2008 at 7:18 PM
Quite right, so even more of a reason for us to fight even harder than the GOP did in ‘76.
If Reagan had the defeatist attitude that I have been seeing all day long by my fellow republicans then we wouldn’t be as well off as we are today.
It is time to fight. A leader will emerge if we give that person a reason to.
gatorgirl on November 5, 2008 at 7:18 PM
My motto for the next four years:
Stay focused, stay classy :-)
terryannonline on November 5, 2008 at 7:18 PM
Me too :)
jewells45 on November 5, 2008 at 7:19 PM
I miss Manly too. Please come back if you are out there. I feel like I am the only one that has any fight in me!
MAAAAAANNNNNNNNLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gatorgirl on November 5, 2008 at 7:20 PM
Mort Kondracke said the Republican Party is the party of old white people and we should befriend hispanics. Yeah, that worked out well, Mort. Douche. And if, Mort, you’re sooooooooooo into diversity give up your seat on FOX and your position at your magazine. Put up, and please STFU!
SouthernGent on November 5, 2008 at 7:20 PM
Ahh, I dunno. It might be fun to be the one throwing out the barbs for once. I got so sick of these idiots who were consumed with BDS. I think I might catch a little ODS and have a little fun.
jewells45 on November 5, 2008 at 7:21 PM
Right on que, the McCain camp throws Palin under the bus. The biggest problem with republicans is that the eat their own to get the love of people who will always hate them. This party is a digrace. When you don’t stand up for anything, you stand for nothing. RIP USA and GOP.
Sean on November 5, 2008 at 7:22 PM
Mort is wrong. We don’t have to befriend anyone. We only need to speak the truth and educate the masses and all will want to befriend us. The masses don’t understand and so far no one in our party has explained it to them.
gatorgirl on November 5, 2008 at 7:23 PM
Does anyone really believe that she thought Africa was a country? Sounds like some petty BS to me.
bluejacket on November 5, 2008 at 7:26 PM
Maybe we need a new party. No, not the New party.
Fortunata on November 5, 2008 at 7:27 PM
Manly and I didn’t have a real bet. Not only didn’t we ever agree on the wager, he bet on over 535 EVs for McCain. I can’t believe he was serious.
jim m on November 5, 2008 at 7:30 PM
The place to start is the nomination process. I don’t know if that’s changed state by state but we have to stop democrats, independents, and MSM from picking our people.
I always thought appointing judges was a bad idea. But they are not answerable to anyone. Federal judicial appointments are usually shepherded by Senators from the district. I imagine they tell them “Don’t make me look like an idiot for doing this.”
Appoinments or some other selection is not a bad idea. How is it that we basically trust our nominations to a couple thousand people in Iowa and New Hampshire?
casel21 on November 5, 2008 at 7:31 PM
I have a lot of doubts about the validity of that report (just saw it on Fox); next you’ll be telling me O thinks we have 57 sta…. uh, never mind
Red State State of Mind on November 5, 2008 at 7:31 PM
Agreed – pure crap
bluejacket on November 5, 2008 at 7:34 PM
FYI–here’s Manly’s original post:
“McCain will win more than 50% of the popular vote and more than 570 electoral votes.”
ManlyRash on October 31, 2008 at 11:07 AM
I thought he was joking about the EVs. Do try to get him back.
jim m on November 5, 2008 at 7:36 PM
Actually, the Dallas area isn’t too either bad, Y-Not. And Fort Worth is supposedly one of the top five places to retire in the US if you’re a Republican who wants to be with other Republicans.
jim m on November 5, 2008 at 7:38 PM
How about some sobering thoughts here!
We (conservatives) lost , we lost focus , direction and purpose.
We did it to ourselves, there is an old saying “ Never interrupt your opponent while he is busy committing suicide”, the press didn’t do it to us. We did it to ourselves. We didn’t stand up to the RINO’S running around claiming to be US.
Mccain for all his attributes is NOT a conservative. He never was and never will be.
To use another old saying “ You can put lipstick on a pig, and its still a pig.’
Time for conservative so regroup, get the lay of the land and start to fix out party.
Get back to Tax cuts, smaller government and getting people out to do for themselves.
STOP CRYING about THE MEDIA did this!
ColdWarrior57 on November 5, 2008 at 7:40 PM
If you all aren’t doing anything right now, and want to listen to something intensely inspirational, turn on Levin. He’s playing Reagan. Just listening to him for 5 minutes, I feel like running for office myself.
ErinF on November 5, 2008 at 7:42 PM
Good man jim m. Manly, get your arse back here, you twit.
Fortunata on November 5, 2008 at 7:42 PM
And Y-Not, if you move to Austin, it’ll be easier to share our political studmuffin fancyman. ;p Especially as he’ll probably have to go in the coming purge.
Fortunata on November 5, 2008 at 7:43 PM
Nor will I stand for a ceiling on my accomplishments and success designed to reward those who do nothing —–
As key Wester said—
I plan to spend as little money as possible, try to cut services from those I know voted for O
and no more charity donations–especialy at the Catholic church–they never support conservatives and I read they even gave money to ACORN
mainliner on November 5, 2008 at 7:53 PM
Well, you’re partly right in that I agree that we let the media do this to us. But, from the ground up then, people, why don’t more of us start by signing up for the PTA like Palin did? It doesn’t mean always voting for the GOP, but getting conservative principles active at the grassroots.
Fortunata on November 5, 2008 at 7:57 PM
I think the whole ‘voting early’ thing needs to be examined.
That election dragged us through the mud for a month.
The Constitution says the first tuesday of November shall be the election. Whats up with that?
johnnyU on November 5, 2008 at 7:58 PM
Wait til you see the disillusionment in 2010. No problem.
When they come after our money– FILIBUSTER
When they try to impose—the fairness doctrine–FILIBUSTER
When they try to impose radical abortion laws—-FILIBUSTER
When they try to nationalize health Care——–FILIBUSTER
When they try ensure defeat in any war———–FILIBUSTER
Yes…use the power wisely but use it like Democrats.
Jamson64 on November 5, 2008 at 8:00 PM
Truth is, and I hate to say it, classy doesn’t go very far these days.
That’s why people can listen to vile insults – of the other side, of women, even of themselves – and not bat an eyelash. They think no less of the person who delivered the insult. On some level, they consider it RIGHT to talk like that.
It is the culture we are in now. We can take our good manners and (to some degree) honor and just head straight to the corner marked “Losers.” Those values no longer resonate, mainly because they no longer even communicate.
Used to be what you didn’t say was heard, and appreciated. No longer. Now it’s quite the opposite, and this has been coming on for a long time.
Alana on November 5, 2008 at 8:00 PM
I agree. I think it will be 8 years because the media will do everything to protect “The One” so he can be the greatest being who ever lived.
stefystef on November 5, 2008 at 8:03 PM
I don’t agree even though the media is now cooperating with Obama’s OPERATION REDUCE EXPECTATIONS. His followers have high unreasonable expectations that cannot be met. By 2010 many will realize they have been had.
Jamson64 on November 5, 2008 at 8:04 PM
gatorgirl on November 5, 2008 at 7:18 PM
But…but…Reagan was an old white guy! (I just think we can be more inclusive without throwing old white guys under the bus.)
thecountofincognito on November 5, 2008 at 8:06 PM
Jamson64 on November 5, 2008 at 8:07 PM
Okay, now that Obama has won the election can the liberal dbag trolls please go back to DailyKooks, especially a guy with a name from an asinine cartoon show. As for your statement about social conservatives, the social conservative pool of voters in this country is actually going to increase you fool. All the whites and blacks who have abortions will be a lesser percent of the population. Pro-life hispanic Catholics–while they’re current insanly liberal politically–will potentially become a strong socon constituency. BTW, it was the minorities in CA that killed gay marriage, not whites!
Some writers on this board want to throw pro-lifers under the bus in the name of being hip and winning a new block of voters. Guess what, pro-life voters are the main reason why we had tax cuts in the last eight years, along with these two great wars. You think a pro-choice Republican would’ve carried Ohio in 00 or 04, think again.
IR-MN on November 5, 2008 at 8:13 PM
Bradky, you are singing my song. The GOP needs people who can educate, communicate and connect with people across all racial and social barriers. This is about ideas and principles, not class warfare. This is about freeing people so that they can own their own work and reap the benefits of their own efforts, rather than having someone else (i.e. the government) reaching into their pockets and stealing what they have rightfully earned. One is freedom – the other slavery. We need to make it clear that we are anti-slavery!
Bookkeeper on November 5, 2008 at 8:15 PM
Good post. In general black Americans are not real high on homosexuality. I am betting neither are out new residents from South and Central America.
Pro-lifers will always be integral to GOP victories.
Jamson64 on November 5, 2008 at 8:16 PM
95% of blacks and 70% of hispanics voted for the black racist marxist, that meas that white america rejected Obama
tocoloro on November 5, 2008 at 8:21 PM
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