Notes from the collapse
posted at 10:35 am on November 5, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly
This morning, after having absorbed the substantial victory of Barack Obama, I noticed a couple of interesting items in the data. Barack Obama certainly won this race, but he won it with just a little more votes than George Bush won in his re-election bid, and the turnout models came up short.
In 2004, Bush beat John Kerry by winning 62.04 million votes. In 2008, Obama won 62.443 million, a gain of only 400,000. In 2004, Kerry garnered 59.028 million votes; John McCain only got 55.386 million. That means this election saw 3.24 million fewer votes than four years ago. Far from being more energized, the nation appeared to be more apathetic.
Using these numbers, we can see that Barack Obama succeeded in turning out his base much more effectively than McCain did his. How do we know that it’s a base turnout rather than a tsunami of opinion to Democrats? For one thing, Dems didn’t pick up a boatload of new seats in the House, and they may underperform expectations yet in the Senate. They did gain some strength with independents, but only gaining between 11-20 seats in the House tells us that they found votes in districts they already control, more than finding converts.
There’s nothing wrong with that; George Bush won two elections doing the same thing. He only gained 3 million votes over John Kerry’s 2004 performance. It does reflect a certain brittleness about Obama’s support that may not be evident in the flush of his Electoral College victory. That doesn’t mean he can’t broaden his appeal after winning office, but it does mean that he primarily won among friendlies and not through appeals to bipartisanship.
John McCain and the GOP didn’t get their turnout in this race. They lost almost seven million voters from 2004, a rather stunning number. We’ll be chewing on this for a while, but that’s more than 10% of the Bush vote that got lost in this election. Did they stay home, or did significant numbers of them defect to Obama? I’m guessing the former. The GOP demoralized their base by acting like Democrats for too many years, and the winds of “change” proved too dispiriting this time around.
Is it his fault? I don’t think it’s his fault as much as the historical trend. Republicans faced two strong headwinds in this race: history and their own fecklessness as a party. History tells us that the White House almost always changes party after two terms with one, and Bush is a particularly disliked incumbent. The Republican Party lost its soul when it launched its K Street Project, and the spendfest of 2001-6 only made that more clear.
If the GOP wants to win 60 million votes in future national elections, it has to stand for something other than being Democrat Lite. The Republican Party needs clarity, purpose, and most importantly, an end to the hypocrisy of talking smaller government while porking up their districts. When given only a choice between real Democrats and fake Democrats, Americans will choose the former, which we found out in 2006.
Update: I wrote “latter” when I meant “former”; I don’t think that defections account for Obama’s victory.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: « Previous 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next »
The Dubai ports thing was stupid. It was an unwarranted attack on the president. The idea that Bush would sell ports to terrorists so that they could kill us all was crazy.
For one thing, the port terminals were to be leased not sold, for another Americans ran the company, for another the deal included 19 countries and none of them had any problems with it. The whole thing was just hysterical and it hurt the GOP. When Hillary and Chuck Shumer got in front of the mikes and started flapping their gums about this, I thought Surely no one will take them seriously. yeah right.
Terrye on November 5, 2008 at 12:23 PM
Bunning does not pander to the left. He bends on very few issues, but is a state’s rights advocate, and a true all-around paleoconservative. Bunning was one of the few senators that did not vote yes on the bailout.
Mitch does a good job with the filibuster, but his spine caved during the bailout, which makes me fear for status of other important legislative failures. For example gun rights, Mitch is very pro-2nd amendment, and scores well with the NRA. But he won’t have the power that he has right now, and I think that the few democrats that he was able work with were banking on Lunsford taking up his slot. This could potentially be a disaster for Senate Republicans.
leetpriest on November 5, 2008 at 12:23 PM
Yep, and the Democrats and MSM are absolute scumbags for politicizing the war, which they helped lay the policy for.
jp on November 5, 2008 at 12:23 PM
jp on November 5, 2008 at 12:10 PM
I am not what you think I am.
thecountofincognito on November 5, 2008 at 12:24 PM
DOW down 245pts and advancing further. The Obama selloff. Dow ended at 9511 yesterday. It will never see that ppoint again in an Obama admin
unseen on November 5, 2008 at 12:25 PM
After the economy really starts to tank, in 3-12 months, Hussein’s administration will try to fix things but instead make it worse. He and Congress will be blamed and you won’t be able to find anyone willing to admit they voted for him.
hogfat on November 5, 2008 at 12:25 PM
Calling them ’scumbags’ is being very generous, jp.
progressoverpeace on November 5, 2008 at 12:25 PM
No surprise here. Lets see where the down spiral ends.
clemycali on November 5, 2008 at 12:26 PM
You’re right about that. But I never suggested that paleoconservative policies could establish some sort of utopia. Far from it! There will always be problems in the world; our job is just to manage and to minimize those problems. My stance is just that a paleoconservative approach would manage and minimize those problems better.
Conservatism is the rejection of ideology.
As far as I’m concerned, there will always be suffering in the world, and the battle between good and evil will continue until God decides to end it.
MedSchoolCatholic on November 5, 2008 at 12:27 PM
No surprise here. Lets see where the down spiral ends.
clemycali on November 5, 2008 at 12:26 PM
I’m saying 7,000 by jan 21st
1500 by 2012 nov 4th
unseen on November 5, 2008 at 12:27 PM
Say WHAT???
Who would ever support the US inserting itself into every conflict around the world? Do you have even the slightest notion how many conflicts there are that we’re ignoring?
Prove to me that you have any idea what you’re talking about. Give me some indication of who here, or in the US government, wants to insert the US into the ongoing war in Kashmir (cumulative casualties of 40,000 or more), the communist/Islamic insurgency in the Philippines (cumulative casualties of 160,000 or so), or the Second Congo War (cumulative casualties somewhere over 5 million.)
Insert ourselves into every conflict around the world? Whose kool-aid are you drinking, son?
philwynk on November 5, 2008 at 12:27 PM
Wrong. They are going to blame the Bush’s administration desastrous heritage. And the MSm is going to shield for them.
clemycali on November 5, 2008 at 12:28 PM
Are you ready for Great Depression v2.0?
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on November 5, 2008 at 12:28 PM
Pushing the Dubai ports deal was the dumbest thing I had ever heard of. Bush really screwed the pooch on that one. The idea of giving Dubai control over our ports, temporary or not, was just plain insane.
progressoverpeace on November 5, 2008 at 12:28 PM
what are you talking about intelligent design is not creationism and Jindal’s intellectual credentials are impossible to rival. you can’t paint him stupid. check out his education and history. he’s amazing. to disregard him like you do suggests to me that you can’t possibly know anything about him. instead you should be thanking Jesus that Jindal is both ueber-intellectual and ueber-spiritual, simultaneously.
anti-boomer on November 5, 2008 at 12:30 PM
You don’t think he and the MSM are going to find ways to blame it on Reagan and Bush? and that they’ll be immediately believed by Joe Sixpack, who has no more notion of economic cause and effect than does the beer in his hand, thanks to 100 years of leftist influence over American public education?
philwynk on November 5, 2008 at 12:30 PM
Look to the “missing man” as the reason for the loss. The more Bush copped the Fifth in silence, the worse it got. He tried to be above the fray and got trampled instead.
Whatever happened to the concept of the bully pulpit.
His silence in his own defense looked like agreement and shame
clnurnberg on November 5, 2008 at 11:40 AM
Exactly what I said last night. Bush has simply turned his back on his people. US. Not a word. Not blaming Bush, he kept us safe after 9/11. He stayed out of our lives, gave us tax cuts. Jobs seemed to flourish. Then this financial crisis. And now the ones that caused this. Is ignoring us. Don’t you just love how we have been laughed at? No one in jail. Paulson holding Banks hostage. I could go on. But I am distraught that we have a Dictator. A man that they claim is the First Black man. What a joke. He is more white than black! I am going to fight like hel*! I won’t stay silent. I never have stayed silent.
sheebe on November 5, 2008 at 12:33 PM
OK, The election was largely bought by questionable DNC money. Main stream media is, and has been in the tank for Obama & has trashed McCain and the GOP. Acorn may not have been a factor but the idea of stealing an election is disgusting, whether it is on the right or left. With all that said, it is time to move on and rebuild the alternative to left-wing politics and show why our values are better for everyone that wants to fulfill the American Dream of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. We spent far too much time attacking our opponents and not enough time on what we intend to do if our candidates are elected. We will need to let the Democratically controlled Congress and Presidency know our displeasure of any and all radical-left-leaning actions on there part. We will also need to do it in a way that makes us appear like an intelligent, responsible citizen that are expressing our views and concerns, so they wont be able to marginalize our concerns by thinking we are a bunch of ideologs. We will need to rebuild and re-educate our base and find a way to include minority voters in our dream. We will need to do all of our infighting during the Primaries, and once they are over, we will need to circle the wagons around our choice of candidates, just like the Democrats have done, so we will not errode our chances of winning; it was not the most winning strategy, what the Republicans did in criticising their own candidates during this election cycle. If we do all these things, and, the Democrats fail to deliver on their promises we will have a turn-around in 2010 similar what we had in 1994. Dean & Pelosi said “Give us a chance for the next two years.” We will be watching.
DL13 on November 5, 2008 at 12:33 PM
I’m not talking about Saddam Hussein or the Iraq War. I may not have been clear but I agreed with jp that Saddam was a danger to the US and others. My question was about interventionism not tied to national interest. Say Serbia as an example or Darfur as a hypothetical.
I’d also include nation-building in general (including stabilising Iraq). In Ralph Peters’ article the other day he complained that the Sarkozy couldn’t get the EU to send troops to the Congo to prevent a bloody civil war. In 1960-64 Irish troops went to the Congo, fought an all-out shooting war and stabilised the country.
Should the West send troops to the Congo every generation because the tribes there can’t resolve their differences?
aengus on November 5, 2008 at 12:34 PM
All I can say is:
Nikkei – Dec 1989: 40,000
Nikkei – Nov 2008: 9,500
Not a bad return for 20 years … I can’t wait to see what leftist policies do for us. I’m guessing, given the fact that the US has been the economic engine that has constantly rescued the rest of the world … that monetary collapse of the worlds’ trade and reserve currency is in the offing. This will be something that the world has never seen before.
progressoverpeace on November 5, 2008 at 12:35 PM
No more “compassionate” conservatism. We need to stick to our values and re-establish our core beliefs.
First to go: Bill Kristol. Go to HELL! You are not a real conservative. You are a scumbag. Fred Barnes. Go with him.
HornetSting on November 5, 2008 at 12:35 PM
Rush is loaded, but not *that* loaded. He can’t pull strings in the markets.
He’s a commentator, folks. He’s never liked McCain or anything other than the rock-ribbed. As Rush would say, “it is what it is”.
ddrintn on November 5, 2008 at 12:36 PM
I don’t know how we’ll ever know who’s responsible for this. Can we trust any polls? Can we trust the pundits?
My gut tells me that the NASCAR set, for want of a better term, let us down. That’s what I meant in my earlier post by living small lives. If you are living in a red state and you have a local government that you like and you have your guns and NASCAR and church, then why not vote for the guy who’s promising to send you a check paid for off the backs of Wall Street and the suit and tie set? But how will we know?
My husband and I have lived in blue areas most of our lives. It’s friggin’ exhausting and emotionally draining to be surrounded by so many wrong-headed people. But, when we lived in Indiana (although it was in a blue town), we could not relate to the people whose lives consist solely of their immediate family, their church, and their televisions. Same thing with Texas We liked it as a state, but we were in Houston — when we went to the more rural areas, we felt so out of place. Their world-view is so narrow.
I literally don’t know where we fit in. We are probably similar to you, more conservative on fiscal and defense issues than we are on social ones (although we are both pro-life). In terms of social issues, we lead very traditional lives but are very tolerant of other people’s lives, because we have had friends from all over the world and have traveled.
Anyway, I am worried about what will happen next to the Republican party and whether or not it will be worth the stigma we suffer as Republicans to be part of that party. I wish a third party would form that represented our views.
As for the people who feel the need to insult other Republicans like you based on one or two issues, like abortion, I have very little patience for them. They are not helping the party.
Y-not on November 5, 2008 at 12:36 PM
Absolutely, Clemy. They are going to cry and say that this government was SO SCREWED UP that they can only do so much. Bush is the reason that the One has fallen flat on his face.
HornetSting on November 5, 2008 at 12:37 PM
Oh. Sorry aengus. I am in full agreement with you on this.
I agree with you here, too. We should taken Saddam out, taken control of the oil fields (for the international interest of needing to secure the world’s most important resource), and left the Iraqis to run around the desert killing each other (whihc they love to do). If they asked for our help, I would have been happy to give them a little, but they had to ask for it. Otherwise, I didn’t care about the Iraqis, at all.
progressoverpeace on November 5, 2008 at 12:39 PM
Well said, fogw.
There is another element– the feeling that this whole election was orchestrated from the start. Perhaps from both sides.
That’s why “they” had to destroy Governor Palin. She was an unexpected wrench thrown into the arena that sent them reeling. The only answer was to personally destroy her, via Saul Alinsky’s method for political/ personal destruction. She was just not supposed to happen. They had to shred her, which they did daily– in newspapers, magazines and TV–and then remarked on how her favorables have declined.
Acorn. Corrupt media. Dirty money. Astroturf liars. Manipulation of the US economy. (Just in time, as Obama was sinking in the polls).
There’s a stench coming from this election that can’t be ignored, and the GOP let them get away with all of it.
nyrofan on November 5, 2008 at 12:39 PM
I didn’t like McCain either. I HATED him, but I am a conservative and the opposition was worse. It’s time to clean house and remove the mealy-mouth, psuedo republicans that want to reach across the aisle. If they try, they will have their arms chewed off. It’s time to stand up for our own principles. McCain, Graham, and other RINOS are no longer welcome in the tent. They are a drag. In “drag”.
Rush is telling the masses what we need to do.
HornetSting on November 5, 2008 at 12:39 PM
Rush is our Soros? Do we want someone else to commit all their money so we can keep ours? Geez, sounds like liberalism!
It hurt but I coughed up the max.
hawkdriver on November 5, 2008 at 12:42 PM
I think the MSM will try to blame GW for the collapsing economy but I think the current president will take the heat from Joe Sixpack just as he always has. Did slick willy get blamed for the economic troubles after GW took office?
hogfat on November 5, 2008 at 12:42 PM
I’m not saying that it is humanly possible (it isn’t), I’m talking about an attitude of interventionism. For instances lots of people want intervention in Darfur, Tibet and Georgia. Some support intervention in the Congo.
aengus on November 5, 2008 at 12:44 PM
Yitzchokm on November 5, 2008 at 12:05 PM
Loved your post!
sheebe on November 5, 2008 at 12:45 PM
I think defections do count for a bit. I have two conservative techno-geek ‘buds who voted Obama. One voted for him because McCain can’t use a keyboard, and the other voted for him because he thought Obama’s economic plan was better.
I can understand and respect the latter, but the former has me fuming, because it means that one of Barack’s smears trying to tar McCain as a technically unsophisticated person actually worked (McCain is quite tech-savvy as chair of the Commerce Committee, which regulates the Internet (think ICANN, net neutrality, etc), and was instrumental in getting the old TV frequencies freed up for new uses [the TV broadcasters wanted to keep both the old bands and the new, even though they were not going to use the old bands for broadcast TV]).
By the way, I don’t text, my cellphone is always turned off when I’m not available to talk. and I don’t belong to any virtual universe that I know of.
Personally, those conservatives who voted for Obama will find that they were tools. I can guarantee them that.
unclesmrgol on November 5, 2008 at 12:46 PM
Aptly stated.
whitetop on November 5, 2008 at 12:47 PM
Very good. Thats what I’d posit as a conservative foreign policy which would lie between neoconservative interventionism on the one hand and Paulian isolationism on the other.
aengus on November 5, 2008 at 12:47 PM
Joe Scarborough rips into leftist hatemongers…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27552146#27552146
gxpgxp on November 5, 2008 at 12:48 PM
Like Thomas Becket said:
“All this battle has taught us is that we too will have to form platoons of cutthroats.”
Like John McCain said:
“Nice guys finish last, And I’m a nice guy.”
Gonna be a long 4 years.
Wally on November 5, 2008 at 12:49 PM
I couldn’t agree more.
misslizzi on November 5, 2008 at 12:49 PM
Y-not, I’m with you. I am too a fiscal-defense conservative and more moderate on the social issues. I think we debated the abortion issues a little time ago. But anyway, the party needs to make room for more people and more minorities and try to put good economic ideeas in simple words. NASCAR people, no offense here, don’t understand too many complicated things.
@Hornet, how are you feeling? I am very but very upset. And if I get to see Manly around, when he gets up after his hangover, I’ll have a few choosen words for him.
clemycali on November 5, 2008 at 12:50 PM
Just common sense, I would call it. Unfortunately, Bush was embarrassed to even mention the word ‘oil’ with relation to Iraq and tried to sell the war as one of ‘freeing the oppressed’, after the inability to come up with much WMD. But, on that account, I argued that the Iraq war ended up taking care of more WMS than we had ever even imagined because it scared the living sh#t out of Qadafi and got him to puke up his nuke industry and the deep, dark details of the AQ Khan network.
But Bush never sold anything correctly. Either he didn’t know or didn’t think American’s would understand. Given the fact that Americans just elected a Marxist as the next President … maybe he was right that they wouldn’t understand. National self-interest doesn’t seem to be high on the list of priorities for far too many Americans.
progressoverpeace on November 5, 2008 at 12:53 PM
Well I don’t think taking a long time licking wounds is the answer…Progressives Round #1, when the horse bucks you off, you get right back on.
Dr Evil on November 5, 2008 at 12:53 PM
May I just second that emotion! Rush in on now saying he is going to name names and we are going to flush these people out and get rid of them. Let’s ride!
Fred Barnes came down here to help push McCain during the primary at a Conservative dinner. The dinner was about Conservatism and he decided to push McCain. We booed him, and nobody stayed for autographs or chit-chat.
freeus on November 5, 2008 at 12:53 PM
Few people on the right ever did like McCain. He was a turncoat and backstabber in the Senate and the election numbers show that enough voters remembered it.
We have much work to do.
I see that Obama is already reaching out to McCain for help….hmm
road2utopia on November 5, 2008 at 12:54 PM
You know which Republican stood out lately, Thaddaeus McCotter, lets see his star rising in the Republican Party.
Dr Evil on November 5, 2008 at 12:56 PM
I am very sad and very scared for my country. But, I am hopeful that we can rebuild, Clemy. We need to go back to our principles. 1994 was a good year for the republican party. We need to have a revolution. No more compassionate conservatism. P*ssying out lost us the election. The “nice” guy needs to be put out to pasture and a REAL conservative needs to be groomed.
As far as Manly is concerned. He made a bet with a damn troll and if McCain lost, he is out forever. As of 11:43 pm, he signed off and haven’t seen him. I say, come back and get back on the horse, Manly. Trolls beware.
HornetSting on November 5, 2008 at 12:57 PM
McCain was toast when he let the bailout dictate the terms
(you can thank George Soros for that manipulation)
had he been outraged, rejected the bailout and stood on principals he would have tapped into the outrage of the country and won the election (lost moment my friends)
our future needs someone with Regan ideals and principals
1) Romney if he denounced Mormonism and became a born again Christian – perhaps – conservatives won’t elect him
2) Palin energized the base but can’t be top on a ticket
3) Jindal is a great govenor for LA (my adopted state) but wouldn’t make in it a national race as pres nom., more a vp
4) I liked Guiliani on the stump, but he ran a horrible let’s show up late campaign
we couldn’t win this one even with HIllary Democrats helping out 5-10% – our base was completely apathetic
without Palin it would have been Mondale-ish in comparisons
Obambi will fail, his ego will lead him far left, pelosi and reid are allready conspiring – let them have their turn, reject their programs but let “them be tied to them”
God Help us
audiotom on November 5, 2008 at 12:57 PM
Alright, I fully intended to hold back on the McCain dogpile, but damn this is the kind of crap that helped him lose.
If he didn’t want an aggressive Conservative on the ticket, why did he ask her to run?
I never thought I’d be commenting on reports of him throwing her under the bus. DAMN MAC!
Again, Carl Cameron asked to be on Orielly radio to talk about the McCain campaign, now I have to listen.
hawkdriver on November 5, 2008 at 12:58 PM
I think McCain might have won if he had come out strongly against the phony bill of goods we called The Bailout. I think Sarah Palin in her heart of hearts would have done just that.
ddrintn on November 5, 2008 at 1:00 PM
McCain ran on Iraq, bipartisanship and his personal history. That’s all he said during the debates. He latched onto Joe the Plumber at the end but by then most people had made up their minds.
McCain values bipartisanship over principle and that’s why he lost 1 in 5 Bush voters (besides being hostile to conservatives, of course). I’m convinced he would have lost by 10-15 points if he didn’t have Palin on the ticket to save the other 4 in 5 Bush voters.
McCain’s biggest mistake was suspending his campaign to work on the bailout. He was able to get the House Republicans views heard and then the whole process fell apart. He thought he could ride to the rescue ignoring the fact that the democrats would blame him for any problems and ignoring the fact that most voters were opposed to it. That was a forehead smacker of huge proportions.
That he never produced an ad showing Obama’s flip flops on every issue between the primaries and general election was his next biggest mistake.
But in the end he wasn’t going to win because he couldn’t motivate a base, he doesn’t have one. Conservatives voted for him only because Obama was worse for the country economically. Being the lesser of two evils is not how you win elections.
He was Bob Dole to Obama’s Bill Clinton — the old war hero that regularly offers an olive branch to nasty opponents, who hate him, compared to a charismatic speaker adored by the press, who covered his backside at every turn. Why would anyone have bet money on McCain?
Their head fake at the end was the worst, the smiling and “Mac is back” attitude, was done to get the vote out, but unfortunately, raised expectations of a closer race that none of the polls indicated. Even TIPP didn’t show McCain leading in any poll in October.
This country will pay the price of Obama’s victory for generations. That voters chose to make America resemble France, a neutered, effete country, is completely disheartening.
Sensible Mom on November 5, 2008 at 1:01 PM
Proof that Palin did not help, and neither did amnesty pandering
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/news/ap/politics/2008/Nov/05/exit_poll__obama_built_win_on_women__minorities.html
Obama won the votes of 56 percent of female voters
Obama and McCain split male voters
“Obama drew the votes of two-thirds of Hispanic voters — heavily courted by both candidates — and 95 percent of blacks who went to the polls.”
“McCain won the votes of 55 percent of white voters”
indythinker on November 5, 2008 at 1:01 PM
McCain is an idiot who did one thing right – Palin.
bill30097 on November 5, 2008 at 1:01 PM
Puhleez. Without Palin, this would have been a 49-state landslide for Obama.
ddrintn on November 5, 2008 at 1:03 PM
+1
james23 on November 5, 2008 at 1:03 PM
Maybe all 57!
hawkdriver on November 5, 2008 at 1:03 PM
Who did the press want to blame more, Bush or Clinton? Who’s being blamed, Bush or Clinton?
This has nothing to do with who’s in office. It has to do with who the press wants the masses to blame.
Think about it; if Bush had been President from ‘92 – ‘00, and the WTC had been demolished on Clinton’s watch in ‘01, would the nation be blaming our failure to prepare properly on Bush, or on Clinton? (Ignore for the sake of argument the fact that if Bush had been Pres from ‘92 – ‘00, it’s possible that the WTC attack might never have occurred.)
philwynk on November 5, 2008 at 1:04 PM
This is one reason among many of why the GOP lost – -
The GOP got thumped by the young vote –66% to 32%. It lost the 30-44 year old vote 52% to 46%.
This age group does not know/understand what socialism is and that socialism has been proven throughout history as a really bad thing. They were not taught this in high school or college. So when the GOP said that Obama was a socialist it did not register as a really bad thing among most 18-44 year olds. Bill Ayers has been at the forefront of the liberal’s movement (with Obama in the shadows) to take over school curriculum for the last 40 yrs. It has worked, they have indoctrinated a generation. And that is one big reason why our country now has Barack Obama as its leader.
gatorgirl on November 5, 2008 at 1:04 PM
Two word for you …. STUDY HISTORY.
Monkei on November 5, 2008 at 1:04 PM
Good. Very good.
road2utopia on November 5, 2008 at 1:04 PM
Absolutely, Freeus. That compassionate conservative crap has to go. We need to stand for our values. McCain was the worst thing to happen this year, but I am glad HE was the sacrificial lamb. Now, we can rebuild and aim and fire for 2010. I live in NM and these idiots filled Domenici’s seat with a democrat and our rep is now also a dem. So, we have a dem governor, 2 dem senators, 1 dem rep and 1 republican rep. It’s gonna be a long 2 years, but Bingaman “the fairness doctrine” idiot is going down in 2010. I am going to work my tailfeather off to make sure that happens. We will get a REAL conservative in there. Not a RINO.
HornetSting on November 5, 2008 at 1:05 PM
gatorgirl, I saw a bunch of teens and twenty-somes at the Fayetteville Rally. Actually made me optimistic.
hawkdriver on November 5, 2008 at 1:05 PM
clemycali on November 5, 2008 at 12:50 PM
Yes, we have got to stop insisting that minorities stay out of our party!!! Wait, you mean our Party was the party that ended slavery, while the Democrats wanted to keep it?! Our party voted for the Equal Rights Amendment in greater numbers than the Democrats?? Well, surely the Democrats have done more. What, Jim Crow laws? Founding the KKK? Having the only former KKK member in congress in their party?? Wow, I’m failing to see how the Republicans are the ones not being inclusive.
Oh, that’s right. We’re the party who DOESN’T tell minorities that they can’t make it on their own and need special quotas and advantages to succeed in life. We insist on the same immigration laws applying to all immigrants. You’re right, treating everyone equally is so racist!
thecountofincognito on November 5, 2008 at 1:06 PM
Do not confuse ambivalence with apathy. If you can’t decide between the two candidates, better you not vote than make an arbitrary decision. I think more Americans might have been interested but indecisive than last time.
Also, I’ve got to say that vote totals mean far less than vote percentages. In the 184-year history of popular vote tabulation, only three Democrats have gotten a high percentage of the popular vote than Obama: LBJ, FDR, and Andrew Jackson. Andrew Jackson. Even if we can blame it all on Bush and the economic cycle, that’s damn impressive.
calbear on November 5, 2008 at 1:07 PM
Yes Soros caused the market tank after McCain pulled ahead
1)After Romney aides led the behind the scene sniping at Palin I hate him worse than McCain
2)If Palin does not top the 2012 ticket Obama wins again. If the GOP is allowed to nominate a candidate – a serious doubt.
3)Jindal would also be fine in 2012 in his 2nd term same as Palin
4)I now believe Giuliani was not serious but was there to split the anti-McCain vote like Bush used people in in 2000 to split the anti-Bush vote MANIPULATION by RINOS
Even with Palin it was still McCain that no one wanted
bill30097 on November 5, 2008 at 1:07 PM
56% of female voters went against Palin.
Palin was supposed to close the gender gap.
If McCain just wanted to shore up his conservative base, he could have picked Fred Thompson, or another true conservative who happens to be a male. The novelty of picking Palin was supposed to pay off among female voters.
Hot Air commmenters were so much in favor of Palin because she would close the gender gap.
Well, that failed.
McCain/Thompson or even McCain/Romney would have done better.
Sarah Palin is a wonderful, laudable person. I think highly of her. She is not big-league, national political material. She didn’t even know that the Vice President’s role as “President of the Senate” is ceremonial. She’s a crackerjack politician at the state level, but at the national level she isn’t prepared. I’m sorry for telling you the hard truth, but I’m even sorrier for America.
indythinker on November 5, 2008 at 1:08 PM
We DON’T want to recycle this year’s trash. Jindal good, Sarah, good, but the rest need to go away.
Romney was never a conservative, he was just more conservative than the rest. Don’t get me started on Guiliani. He is NOT conservative material.
We need new blood. Don’t make the same mistakes over again.
HornetSting on November 5, 2008 at 1:08 PM
hawkdriver on November 5, 2008 at 1:05 PM
I’m optimistic too, if the libs can get to them, we can get to them too. We’ve got 4 years to study up on how to reach them. I have two young cousins that voted for the first time this year. I had to explain everything to them. They teach absolute falsehoods in schools these days.
gatorgirl on November 5, 2008 at 1:08 PM
Two words for you.
Liberal Assclown!
The US ecomony was in a near second quarter recession when George Bush took office. You study history. When did this economy tank? Within the first year into the Democratic run congress.
hawkdriver on November 5, 2008 at 1:08 PM
Indeed, the rumors that “Soros tanked the markets to help Obama” is proved false as today the markets have been down.
indythinker on November 5, 2008 at 1:09 PM
Only the idiots on Fox, the “belt way boys” are not calling this a landslide, well and wingnuts like you evidently.
Obama flipped 9 or 10 red states to blue …
Palin is a complete fraud, there is no doubt that she hurt McCain more than she ever helped him, but then again those are facts by polling numbers that were quite CORRECT this time around.
Run Palin in 2012 against Obama, you need a sacrificial lamb like Dole and McCain to put up against him, I just thought you would go with another old out of touch gray haired man instead of a younger woman who is out of touch.
Want the GOP to come back, throw the born agains to the street and kick the neocons out along with them, bring back Goldwater/Reagan conservatism and the GOP will return.
Monkei on November 5, 2008 at 1:10 PM
I disagree. One of the reasons that the Dems have such a powerful machine is that they begin their strategy well before an election cycle. Their efforts at regaining power and numbers are long-range, anticipating upcoming open seats and laying the groundwork for defeating the opponent-holders of those seats. They build dossiers of information and vulnerabilities… even if they have to embellish or make the attacks up out of whole cloth.
They protect their old bulls by going on the offense early. They groom their up-and-comers ahead of time. Obama was being touted as a star back at the Dem convention in 2004.
Dems work at planting doubts about the opposing party’s members early on through innuendo and repetition. They make sure that the media picks up on the narrative they want to create.
Even before this election, Pelosi and Reid were talking about reconvening Congress in order to initiate Obama programs.
Dems play killer chess, not dainty checkers. The Dems never see themselves as out of power. Even when they were in the minority in Congress they obstructed in Cabinet selections, judiciary approvals, funding, and legislation (making sure that their agenda had a firm and expensive role in final bills0. They never neglected an opportunity to politicize situations, even natural disasters. They spent a lot of their energies on investigations and hearings to the detriment of understanding the consequences of some of their legislation. They used the free publicity of the Sunday talking head programs to push their message.
For Dems, the campaign never ends. You can be sure that before the first numbers came in on November 4, they were plotting their next move.
onlineanalyst on November 5, 2008 at 1:13 PM
What a selective memory you have … this congress did NOTHING but pass bills that MR 20% asked for and got. What an idiot one must be to think that this economy tanked within the last 2 years.
Hey maybe you are one of the “The fundamentals of our economy are still strong” crowd!
Monkei on November 5, 2008 at 1:13 PM
I never saw any reliable sources on this. I believe that rumor was started by a pro-Huck zealot hoping to knock off the 2012 competition. Romney was out there all the time pushing for McCain/Palin, even when I had to sometimes cringe watching him defend some of McCain’s bungling. If one of his aides did happen to snipe at Palin, keep in mind they no longer worked for Romney or answered to him once he dropped out of the election. They were just people he hired during his campaign.
thecountofincognito on November 5, 2008 at 1:14 PM
I disagree; I think Palin was supposed to fire up the base, which she did. McCain was the albatross, not Palin.
Romney and Giuliani are prima donnas. They’re history. People like Palin and Jindal are more grassroots. They’re the future.
ddrintn on November 5, 2008 at 1:14 PM
Who needs competence and experience when you can out-feelgood Obama! Well…maybe.
thecountofincognito on November 5, 2008 at 1:16 PM
Huckabee / Palin 2012!
marklmail on November 5, 2008 at 1:17 PM
I’ll take coherence, consistency and integrity over all the above.
ddrintn on November 5, 2008 at 1:17 PM
Your analysis, may, be wrong, again. I say may because I don’t know how CNN adds it’s stuff up.
But CNN pegs Obama at 63.4 million and McCain at 55.8. Which is different from your 62.4, by almost a million. Using math and all that, it brings your 3.24 fewer voters down to only the 2 million range.
Further I’d have to assume that CNN’s popular vote count, which I don’t know why it means so much in 2008 over 2000 now, may not include the two states it hasn’t called which are Missouri and North Carolina, a total of +3 million votes. So, we could end up with a +1 million voter gain.
PresidenToor on November 5, 2008 at 1:19 PM
Ok. So how do we get rid of the MSM propaganda? I’ve already stopped watching CBSNBCABCCNN. Do we need some rich benefactor to swoop in and create another Fox News? What about the commies being re-educated at our universities? By the time we get around to changing things, the left will be entrenched.
hogfat on November 5, 2008 at 1:19 PM
Romney would have done better than McCain or Palin this year, but in future years it’s not going to work out for him.
Romney is deeply self-righteous. After four years of Obama, America will be bruised, bloodied, maimed, and looking for a time of healing. Romney’s holier-than-thou attitude will not work out for him in 2012 or subsequently, I think.
Mitch McConnell is now the putative leader of the GOP. I suggest his first job be to call a convention of conservative think tanks and independent thinkers, in December, and come up with a plan for the future of conservative politics in America.
At this point, there is no reason to have a GOP. Soon more than half of the population will be people of color, and they do not like fiscal conservatism or a strong military. There are not going to be enough votes for the three-legged stool, because not enough people of color will cross over on the basis of social conservatism.
What conservatives need to do is engage in deep thinking and reconsideration. American capitalism is dead, since any growth will just be taxed to death to write bigger welfare checks.
The Republican brand is now considered to be racist by probably 35% of the country. While that is false and unfair, it is reality that the Republican Party is losing altitude and starting to spin.
It’s over, folks. Time for a re-think.
indythinker on November 5, 2008 at 1:19 PM
ddrintn on November 5, 2008 at 1:17 PM
Wouldn’t we all. Who do you have in mind that we haven’t listed?
thecountofincognito on November 5, 2008 at 1:20 PM
Manly, I’m pretty sure that you’re not posting here because you’re still trying to recover from your hangover in NJ. I can’t imagine that it is in any way related to the supposed bet we have. But if it is, we didn’t agree on any wager and I won’t bring up who won or lost.
jim m on November 5, 2008 at 1:20 PM
By voicing principles and sticking to them , damn it.
ddrintn on November 5, 2008 at 1:20 PM
NO, Huckabee needs to be taken behind the woodshed and given a good beating. He gave us McCain.
He is out. He is a RINO. WE can’t recycle this year’s trash. Palin will be part of the rebuilding, maybe not the presidential ticket, though.
HornetSting on November 5, 2008 at 1:20 PM
indythinker on November 5, 2008 at 1:19 PM
But…but…OBAMA is the great healer! That’s what i heard…
thecountofincognito on November 5, 2008 at 1:21 PM
= proof that you have no idea how to read a poll.
56% of female voters is not an unusually large number. Obama’s margin over McCain in female voters was roughly the same as Gore’s margin over Bush.
Your nonsensical argument about Palin not helping rests on the incorrect assumption that Palin was there primarily to attract female voters. As with just about every instance where a liberal (you give yourself away with your self-congratulatory, narcissistic self-description as an “indythinker” .. hurl) posts a link to support, the refutation for your laughably wrong analysis is right there in the article you link to. Liberals can’t think, and can’t read.
Here:
So Palin did not hurt McCain overall, but helped solidify his base — which was the REAL reason she was chosen.
I’d say “get a clue,” but I’m pretty sure that’s beyond you.
philwynk on November 5, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Yes. The Presidency has now been totally detached from any notions of competency in the position. The Founders are turning in their graves. But, then, they understood mobs and weren’t taken with the fairytale idea of universal democracy without any corresponding responsibilities or requirements. The mob judges at its own level.
progressoverpeace on November 5, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Palin and Jindal are far superior IMO to the other failed warhorses. Any of them. Romney ain’t going nowhere, neither are Huckabee and Giuliani or other fetishes from the primary season.
ddrintn on November 5, 2008 at 1:22 PM
What a bunch of BS. Palin was supposed to energize the base which che did once they stopped micro-managing her. I like Thompson but he can’t even energize himself. And spouting that crapola about Palin and the role of VP shows you to be an idiot or a Dem troll.
bill30097 on November 5, 2008 at 1:23 PM
I, for one, am not prepared to do that. I have never seen my husband look so grim as he did this morning as he headed off to try to save his college’s financial future in the wake of a devastating defeat for private philanthropy–Y Not.
Y Not, how did Obama’s win cause a devasting defeat for private philanthropy? He’s not talking about eliminating any charitable tax deductions.
jim m on November 5, 2008 at 1:25 PM
ddrintn on November 5, 2008 at 1:22 PM
I think Jindal is the future of the party in a big way. However, the guy is a decade younger than Obama. Give him some time to age and gain experience. Palin’s great, but unless she really focuses on learning the issues up and down, she’s going to be the flavor of the month. We haven’t seen enough of her in action to know much about her other than she gives a great speech and has good family values. Her approval rating in Alaska was in the 80s last year, now the 60s. Let her finish her term and we’ll see where she stands. Don’t make more out of her than she is till we know.
thecountofincognito on November 5, 2008 at 1:27 PM
This is what we get when we have “Democrat Lite”.
I know so many people who just don’t give a damn about who’s running our nation. Apathy will be the death of all of us.
Nutbags are passionate. Passionate people usually win arguments or contests bcs they appeal to emotion. People as a mass are stupid that way. Obama gave them flowery speeches & they were orgasmic.
Conservatives rarely get orgasmic over stuff like that. Also, how many of you took off work to vote? How many people can AFFORD to do that?
If conservatives would get off their collective a$$e$ then common sense would rule.
Maybe it’ll happen yet.
I’ve got my fingers crossed for all the Congressional races. And remember we still have some seats to pick up in 2 yrs.
Badger40 on November 5, 2008 at 1:30 PM
Badger40 on November 5, 2008 at 1:30 PM
2010 is going to be sweet if we work for it.
thecountofincognito on November 5, 2008 at 1:31 PM
The MSM became what it has become because leftists targeted it for a take-down, as a long-term strategy. For the past 80 years, the children of leftists chose their life’s work based on how best to influence the future, and settled on media, education, and law; they now control all these centers of thought and power, and refuse to hire anybody who disputes their view of the world.
I submit that it will take at least as long to wrest control back from them. We have to take the long view and build a nation from the ground up, educating our children in the foundations of conservatism and essential liberty, sending them to alter the institutions of the nation. They will have to play along until they’ve reached a position with sufficient power to express their views without losing their jobs. That’s how it was done to us, and that’s how we’re going to have to do it in return.
Or, we could secede from the union and form a new nation, build our own entertainment and education, and go from there.
philwynk on November 5, 2008 at 1:32 PM
Atleast Hannity will have something else to talk about…other than Wright and the MSM. That is a good thing.
HornetSting on November 5, 2008 at 1:34 PM
The Heritage Foundation is an excellent think tank. Supporting them monetarily is a way to get the conservative message out to the public with television and radio spots from time to time. The emphasis would be on conservative principles on assorted issues, not on particular candidates at all.
If the message is effectively attractive, expect solid candidates to emerge supportive of that message and voters to latch on to it and them.
onlineanalyst on November 5, 2008 at 1:37 PM
Who’s going to have any freakin’ money once the tax rates go through the freakin’ roof under your commie system?
Think, man. If you have X dollars and Obama’s taking 90% of X, who’s going to have any freakin’ money left for philanthropy?
Besides Soros, that is, and we all know his major charity is supporting leftwing a$$tards like Kos.
either orr on November 5, 2008 at 1:38 PM
Heh, yeah. I’d like to have a dollar for every time Hannity has uttered the words “unrepentant terrorist Bill Ayers” over the past year.
ddrintn on November 5, 2008 at 1:39 PM
So, today marks the first day in many months that my favorite conservative hosts don’t have to urge us to Vote McCain. I thought today would be the saddest day of my life, but knowing that the muzzles will now fall off of these speakers makes me smile. It was all Rush could do to pitch that teethgrinder McCain. My heart ached the day I learned he won Florida in the primaries, but today he’s officially O-V-R.
See, it’s not ALL bad!
leftnomore on November 5, 2008 at 1:39 PM
Comment pages: « Previous 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next »