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Notes from the collapse

posted at 10:35 am on November 5, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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This morning, after having absorbed the substantial victory of Barack Obama, I noticed a couple of interesting items in the data.  Barack Obama certainly won this race, but he won it with just a little more votes than George Bush won in his re-election bid, and the turnout models came up short.

In 2004, Bush beat John Kerry by winning 62.04 million votes.  In 2008, Obama won 62.443 million, a gain of only 400,000. In 2004, Kerry garnered 59.028 million votes; John McCain only got 55.386 million.   That means this election saw 3.24 million fewer votes than four years ago.  Far from being more energized, the nation appeared to be more apathetic.

Using these numbers, we can see that Barack Obama succeeded in turning out his base much more effectively than McCain did his.  How do we know that it’s a base turnout rather than a tsunami of opinion to Democrats?  For one thing, Dems didn’t pick up a boatload of new seats in the House, and they may underperform expectations yet in the Senate.  They did gain some strength with independents, but only gaining between 11-20 seats in the House tells us that they found votes in districts they already control, more than finding converts.

There’s nothing wrong with that; George Bush won two elections doing the same thing.  He only gained 3 million votes over John Kerry’s 2004 performance.  It does reflect a certain brittleness about Obama’s support that may not be evident in the flush of his Electoral College victory.  That doesn’t mean he can’t broaden his appeal after winning office, but it does mean that he primarily won among friendlies and not through appeals to bipartisanship.

John McCain and the GOP didn’t get their turnout in this race.  They lost almost seven million voters from 2004, a rather stunning number.  We’ll be chewing on this for a while, but that’s more than 10% of the Bush vote that got lost in this election.  Did they stay home, or did significant numbers of them defect to Obama?  I’m guessing the former.  The GOP demoralized their base by acting like Democrats for too many years, and the winds of “change” proved too dispiriting this time around.

Is it his fault?  I don’t think it’s his fault as much as the historical trend.  Republicans faced two strong headwinds in this race: history and their own fecklessness as a party.  History tells us that the White House almost always changes party after two terms with one, and Bush is a particularly disliked incumbent.  The Republican Party lost its soul when it launched its K Street Project, and the spendfest of 2001-6 only made that more clear.

If the GOP wants to win 60 million votes in future national elections, it has to stand for something other than being Democrat Lite.  The Republican Party needs clarity, purpose, and most importantly, an end to the hypocrisy of talking smaller government while porking up their districts.  When given only a choice between real Democrats and fake Democrats, Americans will choose the former, which we found out in 2006.

Update: I wrote “latter” when I meant “former”; I don’t think that defections account for Obama’s victory.


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Interesting analysis, Ed.

Mr. Bingley on November 5, 2008 at 10:39 AM

Republicans should stick to the limited government, low spending model. If they pick up anything from McCain, they should be calling out every Democrat that inserts pork into legislation and ask them to explain their earmark to the American people.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on November 5, 2008 at 10:39 AM

Obama succeeded in turning out his base- ACORN!

christene on November 5, 2008 at 10:39 AM

McCain did not fight hard enough.

“My friends” does not cut it when the other side is slitting every throat in their camp to get ahead.

madmonkphotog on November 5, 2008 at 10:39 AM

That’s what happens when republicans nominate the worst possible candidate. A democrat lite. This country is conservative and just cannot bring themselves to vote for a clown like McCain.

csdeven on November 5, 2008 at 10:40 AM

Ed, are your numbers right? I heard 2008 turnout was much larger than 2004.

Paul-Cincy on November 5, 2008 at 10:40 AM

Could it also be that some Republicans were not happy about the “choice” of McCain (or Obama) and just decided to stay home?

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on November 5, 2008 at 10:40 AM

Awesome analysis, Ed, and right on target. I don’t see this election as one of realignment…at the end of the day McCain couldn’t overcome the problems with his own party, while Barack Obama’s organization got their own voters out.

changer1701 on November 5, 2008 at 10:40 AM

But i think since there were 3.4 million fewer numbers that many repubs stayed home. i don’t see how your data supports your ‘defected’ conclusion.

Mr. Bingley on November 5, 2008 at 10:40 AM

Yes. I want a choice.

spmat on November 5, 2008 at 10:41 AM

Using these numbers, we can see that Barack Obama succeeded in turning out his base much more effectively than McCain did his…

Again, it wasn’t that McCain didn’t try to turn out the “base”…it was that the “base” abandoned McCain from the get-go. They were more interested in bashing McCain over “amnesty”, and with Palin…about running her in 2012, without a concern over 2008.

JetBoy on November 5, 2008 at 10:41 AM

Palin or Jindal for 2012??

Kokonut on November 5, 2008 at 10:42 AM

Laura Ingraham’s show this morning is concentrating on the topic of rebuilding a truly conservative party that actually stands for conservative values, and not for sacrificing those values for the sake of being bipartisan.

AubieJon on November 5, 2008 at 10:42 AM

In 2004, Bush beat John Kerry by winning 62.04 million votes. In 2008, Obama won 62.443 million, a gain of only 400,000. In 2004, Kerry garnered 59.028 million votes; John McCain only got 55.386 million. That means this election saw 3.24 million fewer votes than four years ago. Far from being more energized, the nation appeared to be more apathetic.

You mean Republicans were apathetic.
Palin was an epic fail.

haner on November 5, 2008 at 10:42 AM

Dead on analysis.

Obama didn’t win by any more significant margin than Bush did in ‘04…so he has the same mandate…namely none.

McAmnesty lost this election when he clinched the nomination…his only chance was Palin and she wasn’t enough.

Rogue on November 5, 2008 at 10:43 AM

christene: very true, but I do think Ed’s right. True Conservatives felt it was a done deal, the media would choose the President, after the end of the primary. Might as well let the liberals remember what liberalism really means from the Democrats’ point of view (instead of letting the GOP take the hit).

katablog.com on November 5, 2008 at 10:43 AM

In my mind, without Newt Gingrich to lead in congress, we were stuck with Tom Delay, Dennis Hastert, and later, Bill Frist. What a disaster those guys were!

New, clean leadership with clear conservative principles cogently expressed and diligently followed is the only hope of the Republican party.

Now, I’m taking a break for a few weeks to clear my head and try to find a bright side to look at.

Sloan Morganstern on November 5, 2008 at 10:43 AM

The weak minded are so easily influenced. “Hope and change!”

Tony737 on November 5, 2008 at 10:43 AM

You’re right, Ed.

Bad economy, anti-republican sentiment, its a wonder we did as well as we did in the poopular vote.

blatantblue on November 5, 2008 at 10:43 AM

Remember when the McCain campaign brought up Amnesty for illegal aliens 3 weeks before the election? 78% of the Hispanic vote went to McCain BO. The Republicans may never win another election for POTUS if there are 12-20 million new Democrat votes.

Bulldogger on November 5, 2008 at 10:44 AM

But i think since there were 3.4 million fewer numbers that many repubs stayed home. i don’t see how your data supports your ‘defected’ conclusion.

Mr. Bingley on November 5, 2008 at 10:40 AM

Maybe I wasn’t clear, but I don’t think it was defection, but a failure to turn out the base.

Ed Morrissey on November 5, 2008 at 10:44 AM

Ah yes, and can we now dispense with the utter garbage of bipartisanship and playing to the mushy independents? John McCain’s loss is as much of a repudiation of that milquetoast pseudo-idealism as anything I can think of.

It’s time to start getting back to what conservatism is. Individual liberty, free markets, respect for life, robust foreign policy.

spmat on November 5, 2008 at 10:44 AM

How can Republicans be so foolish as the threaten the very welfare of their families and country to “teach a lesson” to the Republican party?

That kind of idiocy is incomprehensible to me.

Elizabetty on November 5, 2008 at 10:44 AM

CNN latest numbers are 62,929,255 (BO) vs 55,737,820 (JM)

sanjeevn on November 5, 2008 at 10:44 AM

The attitude of “Anything you can promise, I can promise better” is an attitude we need to dump.
Leaders lead with ideas, and “me too’s”.
That is why Newt was so unique, he stepped out with his 10 ideas (contract with America) that were defined. They were debated, but they were conservative ideas being debated. The contract offered specific programs to be voted on. That is what leaders do, lay out specific ideas, specific plans.

right2bright on November 5, 2008 at 10:44 AM

Ed, are your numbers right? I heard 2008 turnout was much larger than 2004.

Paul-Cincy on November 5, 2008 at 10:40 AM

No, his numbers are right.

terryannonline on November 5, 2008 at 10:45 AM

“…3.24 million fewer votes than four years ago.”

Of those 3.24 million fewer votes I have to wonder how many were Republicans or Conservatives who stayed home?

But a lot of this is way beyond Monday Morning Quarterbacking…Obama won. Reid and Pelosi are already heralding their “mandate.” The festivities across the nation have already started…and the Obamatrons show no sign of addressing the very real problems facing this country, instead opting for celebration that the Messiah is coming to Washington in January to lead all of them to the Promised Land.

“If the GOP wants to win 60 million votes in future national elections, it has to stand for something other than being Democrat Lite.”

I have been saying this since back in the Captains Quarters days…

When we try to stand for everything we stand for nothing.

I will be part of the Loyal opposition….loyal to my Country and loyal to my principles…and I hope others will use this new opportunity to finally address the failings within our own Party before we try to encourage others to join us.

coldwarrior on November 5, 2008 at 10:45 AM

Leaders lead with ideas, and “me too’s”.

correction: Leaders lead with ideas, and not “me too’s”

right2bright on November 5, 2008 at 10:45 AM

I disagree. The GOP STAYED HOME or wrote in other candidates and it WAS Captain Amnesty’s fault. I myself was tempted to vote for Ann Coulter or MM.

dogsoldier on November 5, 2008 at 10:45 AM

Rove you magnificent bastard

custer on November 5, 2008 at 10:46 AM

“Did they stay home, or did significant numbers of them defect to Obama? I’m guessing the latter. ”

I’m guessing a typo, and you meant to type ‘former’ not ‘latter.’

Mr. Bingley on November 5, 2008 at 10:46 AM

The elites of this party want to blame the base when its the elites who cut the base off from the debate.

When is that GOP meeting that is suppose to happen post election ? We need to push for some good conservative voices there.

I want to fix my party but I dont have the connections to do it. I pushed for years to get the GOP to change and it didnt listen. I’d love to be able to go on the RNC and work hard to fix things.

Our ideas work but not when we trust them to people who just dont believe in them.

One final thought. What absolutely KILLED us was the domination of the media by the left. From TV to the internet we got out messaged badly. Fox news isnt even conservative its more an entertainment network than an area of serious conservative journalism. And where is our NY Times or AP News ?

We also need a strong conservative presence on the net. A sort of internet news service run by the blogs and payed for by the GOP. There is no counter balance to Yahoo or Google.

If we build a good conservative internetwork the people will come and stay.

William Amos on November 5, 2008 at 10:46 AM

It is his fault. McCain threw a hissy fit in 2000 when he lost the primary to Bush and spent the next 7 years undermining Bush and the conservatives at every opportunity. He buddied up with the Dems, the media, and relished his time in the public eye being the “maverick”.

It was only in the final hours that he decided that he did indeed need us but I’m not shocked that the conservatives he spent 7 years slapping across the face decided that they had had enough.

jbarkley on November 5, 2008 at 10:46 AM

I agree, we do need a re-tooling. Our indoctrination techniques stink. We do not know how to run an election insurgency for crap.

But can’t we experiment with acting like petulant and irrational children screaming at the top of our lungs for four years?

Can’t we come up with some fun names too like Obamugabe? (Not meant racially, but dictatorially, you numbskulls)

Can’t we protest or rabble rouse…maybe march on Washington with our bibles and guns in “peaceful protest”?

It seemed to work for them. And it would be kind of fun.

cranfordpundit on November 5, 2008 at 10:46 AM

http://thesheikhdown.wordpress.com/2008/11/05/reflections/

As I wrote there, liberalism preys on Sloth and Envy. they did these two things quite well this time around.

blatantblue on November 5, 2008 at 10:46 AM

I don’t have all the numbers; but was wondering…
What was the campaign cost per vote?
If Obama spent $650,000,000 on his campaign then it cost $10 for every vote he received.
McCain? 2-3? per vote?
If McCain would have had the same money as Obama would it have made a difference?
Obama got 7 million more votes for $400-$500 million more in spending?

How much more did Obama spend than Kerry in 2004?

albill on November 5, 2008 at 10:46 AM

You mean Republicans were apathetic.
Palin was an epic fail.

haner on November 5, 2008 at 10:42 AM

I shudder to think what the totals would have been without Palin. He was DOA without her. As Noonan (I think) wrote, more than once she shocked him with the paddles to revive him.

BuckeyeSam on November 5, 2008 at 10:46 AM

Time to purge the RINOs.

This shows that the moderates can’t help us bring in votes. They only drag us down. New Hampshire needs to be forced to vote last in primaries for this poor candidate they forced upon us.

Tim Burton on November 5, 2008 at 10:46 AM

What’s telling is when the best speech of McCain’s campaign is his concession speech.

Lawrence on November 5, 2008 at 10:47 AM

Muddy conservatism doesn’t win. Couple that with the inevitable fall-from-grace that an incumbent party has to deal with, and it’s President Obama.

We need bold, articulate conservatives. Contact every conservative you can think of, regardless of whether he’s your rep./senator, and tell them to keep the faith, and that we’re watching.

emailnuevo on November 5, 2008 at 10:47 AM

Guys, lets be frank. The election was whoever was the Democrat nominee’s to lose since Day One, based solely on sheer historical forces.

Lets not drink the DESPAIR kool-aid too quickly.

Techie on November 5, 2008 at 10:47 AM

Er, “muddled,” not “muddy.” Although that doesn’t win much, either.

emailnuevo on November 5, 2008 at 10:48 AM

Have to admit that the Republicans deserved to lose.

Has anyone announced for 2012 yet?

obladioblada on November 5, 2008 at 10:48 AM

Palin or Jindal for 2012??

Kokonut on November 5, 2008 at 10:42 AM

Yes.

CDeb on November 5, 2008 at 10:48 AM

If the GOP wants to win 60 million votes in future national elections, it has to stand for something other than being Democrat Lite. The Republican Party needs clarity, purpose, and most importantly, an end to the hypocrisy of talking smaller government while porking up their districts.

I think clarity and purpose is more important than pork. We had an inarticulate moderate candidate with McCain, who was not able to clearly differentiate his views from Obama, particularly on energy and the economy. He called himself a reformer but never pointed out that with an Obama presidency, people like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd will never have to answer for their role in destroying the housing market and the economy.

That is not to say that pork isn’t a problem, but if that’s what motivated voters they would hardly be moving over to the Dem’s side.

Buy Danish on November 5, 2008 at 10:48 AM

You mean Republicans were apathetic.
Palin was an epic fail.

haner on November 5, 2008 at 10:42 AM

I don’t agree. If the election had been held in early September, before this “meltdown” singularity, I think McCain would have won. *Because* of Palin.

ddrintn on November 5, 2008 at 10:48 AM

John McCain and the GOP didn’t get their turnout in this race. They lost almost seven million voters from 2004, a rather stunning number.

This loss was firmly rooted in the idiotic shamnesty – back when people were declaring that McCain and Bush and friends had killed the GOP.

Many of us kept our mouths shut during the whole of this campaign about McCain’s idiotic desire to make all illegal aliens dual nationals (as if they needed a US citizenship to add to the citizenship of the land they had run away from), but it seems that many more just decided to not even bother voting.

But hey, when there’s an issue that 70% of the electorate is very strongly against, the GOP decided to try and shove it down our throats and then tried to get the moron who tried to shove it down our throats to be our standard bearer.

Now, illegals will be easily legalized (and receive citizenship). McCain will be happy to vote for this and he will have fun with his new Marxist friends. He just loves crossing the aisle, and with Dems holding all the power, McCain will have more fun than he’s ever had.

progressoverpeace on November 5, 2008 at 10:48 AM

Actually, I think the 3.24 million fewer were the Repubs who died since 2004.

CP

cranfordpundit on November 5, 2008 at 10:48 AM

“haner on November 5, 2008 at 10:42 AM”

no, john failed, saracuda was the only thing that kept those 5% of gopers who stayed home from being a MUCH larger number!!

Buckaroo on November 5, 2008 at 10:48 AM

Democrat turnout probably exceeded 100% in some areas, thanks to ACORN.

Cicero43 on November 5, 2008 at 10:48 AM

I shudder to think what the totals would have been without Palin. He was DOA without her. As Noonan (I think) wrote, more than once she shocked him with the paddles to revive him.

BuckeyeSam on November 5, 2008 at 10:46 AM

+1

She is going to have to be the foundation on which we rebuild the true conservative presence in this country.

wccawa on November 5, 2008 at 10:48 AM

Ed, are you sure these are the final numbers? I’m seeing projections of 130 million+ voters in news items this morning after all votes are tallied including absentee ballots. Won’t this change your analysis?

tneloms on November 5, 2008 at 10:49 AM

What is conservatism? What should the Republican party stand for?

I’d suggest:

– Champion individualism and responsibility and self-improvement.
– Preserve and promote freedom.
– Advocate for free markets and competition.
– Crave religious freedom, not religious laws.
– Limit government and make government transparent to reduce corruption.
– Insist that American citizens determine America’s direction.

How would you change that list?

beatcanvas on November 5, 2008 at 10:49 AM

I wonder about the logic of voting for a dem because the republicans spent like a dem.

Say you have two children that you want to teach not to run through the house. Do you punish one for running through the house by rewarding the other when it runs through the house?

I’m confused.

kurtzz3 on November 5, 2008 at 10:49 AM

Sometimes you have to stand on your principles. Period.

Sloan Morganstern on November 5, 2008 at 10:49 AM

Obama succeeded in turning out his base much more effectively than McCain did his.

That’s because the GOP has no moderate base. Imagine how bad Mac would’ve lost if he didn’t pick a solid conservative as his V.P.

Tony737 on November 5, 2008 at 10:49 AM

Okay, I’m going to take a cat nap! The first paragraph should be in quotes.

Buy Danish on November 5, 2008 at 10:49 AM

Maybe what the Republican Party needs to do is start making some pilgrimages to the Reagan Library and do some remedial refresher reading on what they should really be standing for,instead of playing the merry little game of RINO that the majority of them have been playing way too long (YOU LISTENING TO ME, LINDSEY GRAHAM?!!!!)!

In other words, the Republicans need to return to the roots that they once clinged tenaciously to, and stop trying to play favorites with the Democrats.

They now have between two and four years to rebuild themselves into the force that was once something to be reckoned with.

I just hope they have the belly to stand up to the challenge.

pilamaye on November 5, 2008 at 10:49 AM

McCain is not a democrat. He’s not Democrat Lite.

wise_man on November 5, 2008 at 10:49 AM

Im going to start a new voter registration organization aimed at republicans.. PINECONE!

Viper1 on November 5, 2008 at 10:50 AM

What was the campaign cost per vote?

albill on November 5, 2008 at 10:46 AM

$8

right2bright on November 5, 2008 at 10:50 AM

In 2004, Bush beat John Kerry by winning 62.04 million votes. In 2008, Obama won 62.443 million, a gain of only 400,000. In 2004, Kerry garnered 59.028 million votes; John McCain only got 55.386 million. That means this election saw 3.24 million fewer votes than four years ago. Far from being more energized, the nation appeared to be more apathetic.

That stunned me, too. All the networks claimed record turnouts, yet we came way short of the 120 million from last election.

MadisonConservative on November 5, 2008 at 10:50 AM

If the GOP wants to win 60 million votes in future national elections, it has to stand for something other than being Democrat Lite.

One of the things that really struck me last night was a report from New Mexico about how the great majority of Latino voters were going for Obama. McCain alienated the base of his own party trying to pander to the Latino vote and all he got was a shiv in the back in return. Secure borders, enforce the immigration laws, no path to citizenship for illegals, (a path back to their own country should be their only option). Strong military, low taxes, cut government entitlement programs. Get back to the basics. Get back to the base.

sdd on November 5, 2008 at 10:50 AM

“obladioblada on November 5, 2008 at 10:48 AM”

hey, here’s a simple rule — 2012 discussion is NOT allowed until 2010 is complete …

/cart … horse …

Buckaroo on November 5, 2008 at 10:50 AM

Time to purge the RINOs. – Tim

Roger that.

Tony737 on November 5, 2008 at 10:51 AM

“haner on November 5, 2008 at 10:42 AM”

no, john failed, saracuda was the only thing that kept those 5% of gopers who stayed home from being a MUCH larger number!!

Buckaroo on November 5, 2008 at 10:48 AM

When you think about it though, we might have been screwed the moment we began counting on a VP nominee to carry the ticket.

ddrintn on November 5, 2008 at 10:51 AM

I don’t agree. If the election had been held in early September, before this “meltdown” singularity, I think McCain would have won. *Because* of Palin.

ddrintn on November 5, 2008 at 10:48 AM

I do too, but that was also before the Couric interviews. McCain screwed up with the Palin roll out. And she divided the Republican Party (the pro-Palin versus anti-Palin), and the division wasn’t reconciled before the vote. That probably accounted for at least half of that 3 million votes too short.

haner on November 5, 2008 at 10:51 AM

So, the plan is to purge potential GOP voters by the party that lost the election? Good thinking. That, and the fact that the growing Hispanic vote thinks the GOP hates them, will keep the GOP in minority status for quite some time, assuming that Obama delivers on at least some of his promises.

jim m on November 5, 2008 at 10:52 AM

Look, the biggest reason we lost is because the RINOs dumped conservatism, for dem-liteness. It also doesn’t help that Bush tried to be bi-partisan
Unfortunately these clowns are still in charge at the RNC.
The media is going to do their damndest to pick our new leadership, like they did our presidential candidate. We have to fight them, and get people who reflect our values and principles in.
Some RINOs are thinking, “Oh Obama and the Dems will overreach and we’ll have a cakewalk in 2010″. WRONG!
We’re gonna have to fight harder than ever to win in 2010. The deck was stacked heavily against us this year. Just think how bad it will be with Obama in charge of the executive branch for 2 years. Do you remember how the Clinotns used every agency of the governement against thier enemeies? I know Obama has. And he’ll have a symp media to cover-up and support him.
We need to start laying out our principles and targets now:
Small Governement,low taxes, strong defense, personal responsibility, and the law applies to everyone
Schumer, Dodd, Frank, Rangle, Murtha, and Pelosi should all be top targets in 2010 (Provided Schumer and Dodd are up then). Ideally EVERY dem should be facing a serious challenger.

Iblis on November 5, 2008 at 10:52 AM

By the way, about Sarah. It was said that she was overmanaged and incumbered.

I agree, but by whom? Here is how to tell:

The first staffer who comes out and critisizes her will be identifying him/herself as the guilty person.

kurtzz3 on November 5, 2008 at 10:52 AM

JetBoy on November 5, 2008 at 10:41 AM

The trouble is… McCain’s base IS Obama’s base. Dems. Independents, and the Media.
Let’s face it, Barack had most of a billion dollars to spend, he OWNED almost all of the media, and criticism of him was (and will be) considered racist.
And our weak candidate was chosen by the other side.
The perfect storm.

edgehead on November 5, 2008 at 10:52 AM

I’m guessing the latter. The GOP demoralized their base by acting like Democrats for too many years, and the winds of “change” proved too dispiriting this time around.

Uhmmm… it has a little bit to do with the GOP running a Progressive Populist candidate against a Progressive Democrat.

With no candidate representiting them, is it any wonder that conservatives lost?

Lawrence on November 5, 2008 at 10:53 AM

You mean Republicans were apathetic.
Palin was an epic fail.

Would you kindly take that nonsense elsewhere? Palin energized the Republican base and if it wasn’t for her then McCain wouldn’t have ran as close as he did.

The only reason Republicans were apathetic is because McCain got the nomination. Were you not here when conservatives were claiming, in large numbers, that they wouldn’t vote for McCain because he wasn’t conservative enough?

Do you think they forgot his attempts at passing “Comprehensive Immigration Reform” (Amnesty) just a short while ago? The Maverick carried a record of trying to appease the Democrats far too often and there was a massive divide in the Republican party (at its base level) when McCain got the nomination. However, his choice of Sarah Palin, a far more conservative running mate than even McCain himself, seemed to get the GOP base charged and ready for the election.

Ask yourself this: Who was more often seen confronting Obama and the Libs on their nefarious associations and actions? Was it McCain? Hardly. It was Palin.

I, for one, hope to be putting a Palin 2012 sign in my yard four years from now.

Aurvant on November 5, 2008 at 10:53 AM

Has anyone announced for 2012 yet?

obladioblada on November 5, 2008 at 10:48 AM

Fred Thompson and Mitt Romney have declared for President

William Amos on November 5, 2008 at 10:54 AM

Could it also be that some Republicans were not happy about the “choice” of McCain (or Obama) and just decided to stay home?

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on November 5, 2008 at 10:40 AM

True conservatives in this country either stayed home, voted 3rd party (Heck, even Nader is more conservative than McCain on immigration), or voted for Obama to repudiate the neocon Bush Administration.

MedSchoolCatholic on November 5, 2008 at 10:54 AM

Not sure the original source for this:

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage.

Here are my post-election blues-inspired guesstimations on the timeline here:
Bondage -> Truth = early 1700s
Truth -> Courage = mid 1700s
Courage -> Liberty = 1776-1787
Liberty -> Abundance = Industrial Revolution
Abundance -> Selfishness = 1960s
Selfishness -> Complacency = 1980s
Complacency -> Apathy = 1990s
Apathy -> Dependence = 2008
Dependence -> Bondage = ???

token on November 5, 2008 at 10:54 AM

I do too, but that was also before the Couric interviews. McCain screwed up with the Palin roll out. And she divided the Republican Party (the pro-Palin versus anti-Palin), and the division wasn’t reconciled before the vote. That probably accounted for at least half of that 3 million votes too short.

haner on November 5, 2008 at 10:51 AM

I would agree with you there, but the Couric interview was magnified far beyond its real importance by the fact that she was kept in a cocoon for the longest time, probably in fear of gaffes. I think that was one of the fatal things.

ddrintn on November 5, 2008 at 10:54 AM

I have said for a long time that McCain was simply a lousy candidate.

Bad speaker, the base conservatives do NOT like him, he lacks a fighters anger to win, and most importantly – he is a Bob Dole redo.

John McCain was simply not a good candidate.

Nice man – honorable – all that – but not a good candidate.

jake-the-goose on November 5, 2008 at 10:55 AM

The Republican Party needs clarity, purpose, and most importantly, an end to the hypocrisy of talking smaller government while porking up their districts.

Bingo.

Kafir on November 5, 2008 at 10:55 AM

On the bright side, California banned gay marriage with a constitutional amendment – just goes to show you that anything is possible. The people here in the craziest state managed to repudiate judicial activism with a constitutional amendment, a silver lining if there ever was one.

Tacitus_SGL on November 5, 2008 at 10:55 AM

John McCain and the GOP didn’t get their turnout in this race. They lost almost seven million voters from 2004, a rather stunning number.

I hope the GOP gets the message. Well not ‘hope’ I beleive they will try to let Barack make a mistake then try to criticise it instead of making the neccesary changes to the party and being truly fiscally responsible. One sure step would be to not submit ANY earmarks that was batted about but ultimatley the GOP did not have the stones to do it. I do not think they got the stones last night either. Prepare for more pandering from GOP leadership. More “We need Hispanics!” blah blah blah. Then when the Bush tax cuts expire they will hammer that and the MSM will silince them again with the same formula. Pathetic.

At least South Carolina got John McCain out of their system and maybe they’ll use better judgment in the next primary.

Theworldisnotenough on November 5, 2008 at 10:55 AM

i want palin for VP again… we need a down the line traditional conservative… i’m almost opposed to a neocon…

we need a paleoconservative… someone who is for limited gov’t… keeping the military strong but out of foreign wars… restore american exceptionalism… low taxes and spending… pro-life all the way… full of unquestionable integrity… pro-environmental conservation and pro-energy independence (yes, both as doable), and from the working class.

Fozzy Bear on November 5, 2008 at 10:56 AM

That stunned me, too. All the networks claimed record turnouts, yet we came way short of the 120 million from last election.

MadisonConservative on November 5, 2008 at 10:50 AM

In fairness the MSM declared the election over a week ago with there poll baiting. Many western Conservatives stayed home after the election turned sour early on.

William Amos on November 5, 2008 at 10:56 AM

In 2008, Obama won 62.443 million, a gain of only 400,000

As sanjeevn points out, CNN has it now at 62,945,655 with a few percentage of districts still left, which makes it more like a million more than Bush got (and of course the margin of victory is about double that of 2004). Also, I can’t tell from different news articles, but I think with absentee ballots the numbers are expected to be even higher.

tneloms on November 5, 2008 at 10:56 AM

The base only has itself to blame for the McCain defeat. If it hadn’t split its vote between Romney, Giuliani & Huckabee in the primaries we would never have seen a McCain candidacy.

The hard base does what it always does in these situations, they sit on their hands come election day even though McCain probably agreed with them when it came to judicial appointments, abortion, taxes and the fight against Islamofacism. I believe they have a term for that.

skeneogden on November 5, 2008 at 10:56 AM

On the bright side, California banned gay marriage with a constitutional amendment – just goes to show you that anything is possible

The conservative agenda sold to the American people. The weak GOP leaders did not.

William Amos on November 5, 2008 at 10:57 AM

People voted for Obama to “get stuff” and to punish the very rich who benefitted from high oil prices and a messy stock market.

Of course, it will not work and their taxes will go up far more than their intended victims (except for those who pay no taxes, they may get a few more bucks and that will be A-OK with them)but it feels good.

The press did nothing to expose the deceptions or to illuminate us on Obama’s record or character. Americans will overlook this.

clnurnberg on November 5, 2008 at 10:57 AM

Could it also be that some Republicans were not happy about the “choice” of McCain (or Obama) and just decided to stay home?

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on November 5, 2008 at 10:40 AM

Precisely!

I myself, and much of my family voted for a conservative – Chuck Baldwin. To have voted McCain would have meant that I would have been guilty of electing another RINO.

Those of you in the military, get out while you can, you have appx 3 months to suck it up and start playing grab-ass with your commander to avoid pay cuts, mass chapters for stupid crap, supply discrepancies, reduction of the use of M4’s and a return to old, unserviceable M16’s, and cracked sappy plates.

leetpriest on November 5, 2008 at 10:57 AM

“ddrintn on November 5, 2008 at 10:51 AM”

while there were some tactical errors relating to saracuda, our successes in sept. were due to the fact that the other side was desperately trying to prove their top of the ticket was equivalent to our BOTTOM of the ticket. when they abandoned that [sadly, at apparently just the right time] and went back to the only “positive” thing they had, the hopechangey nonsense, they gained — enough to get across the finish line …
:-(

Buckaroo on November 5, 2008 at 10:57 AM

Palin’s poor interviews helped the Clinton Democrats get over their distaste of Obama. The media barrage didn’t help for sure, but that should’ve been expected and better defended against. She should’ve done more comedy shows and informal appearances earlier, so as to define herself quickly instead of letting the media do it.

Rather than dividing the Democratic Party, Palin by election day divided the Republican Party (so called cocktail Republicans walked away).

haner on November 5, 2008 at 10:57 AM

I, for one, hope to be putting a Palin 2012 sign in my yard four years from now.

Aurvant on November 5, 2008 at 10:53 AM

Palin was a success (however I will wait for 2010 to see who is on the horizon).
McCain could never energize the base, he was either a left leaning Republican, or a right leaning Democrat, take your pick.
The Republican base is conservative…with that said we need to develop a game plan. That should include some kind of immigration reform, slow government growth, attack the status quo on education (especially minority education), we need to be conservative, but reach into the corners that we haven’t reached into.

right2bright on November 5, 2008 at 10:58 AM

jake-the-goose on November 5, 2008 at 10:55 AM

Rush was right, the MSM picked our candidate then turned on him the instant he was the nominee. What a bunch of loons we were in the primaries. All the intellectuals screaming for ‘moderation’

Theworldisnotenough on November 5, 2008 at 10:58 AM

Palin was an epic fail.

haner on November 5, 2008 at 10:42 AM

Wrong. Palin & Jindal are the future of the GOP. They actually have conservative values. Very few people actually vote based upon the Vice Presidential nominee. The best thing McCain did in the campaign was to bring fresh blood into the Republican party hierarchy.

rbj on November 5, 2008 at 10:58 AM

People do not need to talk about purges right now. And besides, what does that mean? If a moderate votes Republican are you going to track him down and smack him side the head? Say what you will about moderates, but I am glad Lugar is still in the Senate, we would be SOL without him if we did not have someone else there.

No, we need to define the party in such a way that conservatism appeals to more people. Running people off will not help.

I think that the long campaign exhausted a lot of people, they were just tired of it all and wanted it over. A friend of mine told me months ago that he did not even want to think about politics anymore. He said there would be a low turnout this time because a lot of people are just tired of all the constant bickering. I thought he was wrong, but maybe he wasn’t.

Maybe a positive message is what we need.

Terrye on November 5, 2008 at 10:58 AM

A base that doesn’t turn out is no base at all

clnurnberg on November 5, 2008 at 10:58 AM

It is a new day in America…..Plenty of work to do
We now have to start at the local level and begin to elect our officials to the top.
will be a challenge that is well worth the fight!
2010 is coming fast and furious

hawkman on November 5, 2008 at 10:58 AM

katablog.com on November 5, 2008 at 10:43 AM

Republicans need to take a stand, we CAN’T just sit and do nothing. My step was to block EVERY MSM channel, it may be a small step but the results could be significant. It’s time we stop thinking someone else will do something

christene on November 5, 2008 at 10:59 AM

Who else believes that Obama and the democrats in congress will get to work on the no-term limit legislation for him?

carbon_footprint on November 5, 2008 at 10:59 AM

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