Notes from the collapse

posted at 10:35 am on November 5, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

This morning, after having absorbed the substantial victory of Barack Obama, I noticed a couple of interesting items in the data.  Barack Obama certainly won this race, but he won it with just a little more votes than George Bush won in his re-election bid, and the turnout models came up short.

In 2004, Bush beat John Kerry by winning 62.04 million votes.  In 2008, Obama won 62.443 million, a gain of only 400,000. In 2004, Kerry garnered 59.028 million votes; John McCain only got 55.386 million.   That means this election saw 3.24 million fewer votes than four years ago.  Far from being more energized, the nation appeared to be more apathetic.

Using these numbers, we can see that Barack Obama succeeded in turning out his base much more effectively than McCain did his.  How do we know that it’s a base turnout rather than a tsunami of opinion to Democrats?  For one thing, Dems didn’t pick up a boatload of new seats in the House, and they may underperform expectations yet in the Senate.  They did gain some strength with independents, but only gaining between 11-20 seats in the House tells us that they found votes in districts they already control, more than finding converts.

There’s nothing wrong with that; George Bush won two elections doing the same thing.  He only gained 3 million votes over John Kerry’s 2004 performance.  It does reflect a certain brittleness about Obama’s support that may not be evident in the flush of his Electoral College victory.  That doesn’t mean he can’t broaden his appeal after winning office, but it does mean that he primarily won among friendlies and not through appeals to bipartisanship.

John McCain and the GOP didn’t get their turnout in this race.  They lost almost seven million voters from 2004, a rather stunning number.  We’ll be chewing on this for a while, but that’s more than 10% of the Bush vote that got lost in this election.  Did they stay home, or did significant numbers of them defect to Obama?  I’m guessing the former.  The GOP demoralized their base by acting like Democrats for too many years, and the winds of “change” proved too dispiriting this time around.

Is it his fault?  I don’t think it’s his fault as much as the historical trend.  Republicans faced two strong headwinds in this race: history and their own fecklessness as a party.  History tells us that the White House almost always changes party after two terms with one, and Bush is a particularly disliked incumbent.  The Republican Party lost its soul when it launched its K Street Project, and the spendfest of 2001-6 only made that more clear.

If the GOP wants to win 60 million votes in future national elections, it has to stand for something other than being Democrat Lite.  The Republican Party needs clarity, purpose, and most importantly, an end to the hypocrisy of talking smaller government while porking up their districts.  When given only a choice between real Democrats and fake Democrats, Americans will choose the former, which we found out in 2006.

Update: I wrote “latter” when I meant “former”; I don’t think that defections account for Obama’s victory.


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Lets face it blacks and hispanics are racists; if we had an hispanic candidate, 95% of hispanics would vote for him/her

tocoloro on November 5, 2008 at 8:22 PM

IR-MN on November 5, 2008 at 8:13 PM

How many Hispanics, socially conservative blacks and other-tone Catholics voted for us this time round? With candidates stances really, obviously opposed? I’m not sure we can rely on an anti-abortion stance winning over groups, just individuals.

Fortunata on November 5, 2008 at 8:26 PM

The more i learn about the inside of the McCain campane the less i like him.Have seen several stores today about how McCain and his staff treated Palin they tryed to stab her in the back from day one .McCain tryed to keep her away from Rush and all the people on talk radio.He set her up on the interveiws with his good friends in the drive by media instead. He did not want her to hold press conf. by herself because she had a mind of her own and on alot of things she did not agree with him.I also found out she has a temper does not like the MSM or libs and does not suffer fools.She is also not afraid to tell them what she thinks of them.Also it is reported that Mccains family and staff looked down on her and her family you know not up to there social standing.In other words she is one of us.I just hope the time she spent with McCain did not change her. She has also inquire about Ia. & HN for 2012 .

thmcbb on November 5, 2008 at 7:13 PM

I don’t believe all that. I know that McCain wanted Liebermann, but picking Liebermann would have been the kiss of death (it was for Gore). I think McCain had too many people telling him too many things. Palin was a good choice, but because of jealousy in the Republican Party (think Romney), they underminded the preparation of Palin.

Cindy was with Palin a lot and it helped. I think it’s jealous, small minded Republicans (like Peggy Noonan) who badmouthed Palin and made her a problem for the McCain camp.

The Republicans screwed themselves. So what if McCain is not a “true” conservative. Bush was supposed to be a conservative. How’s that been going? Tell me one ONE conservative issue that has worked in this country.

Instead of backing McCain and working with him while in office, the conservatives gave away the White House for at least 8 years. The Dems are already getting ready to prime their next Presidental candidate after Obama (and it won’t be Clinton).

Enough bashing McCain and Palin. Start looking towards the future or you won’t have one.

stefystef on November 5, 2008 at 8:26 PM

to thmcbb: I’m not surprised. I advocated that Sarah appear on Rush in the first two weeks after the convention and when McCain and her were riding high in the polls. She finally did but after her debate and when the support for the campaign was stagnating. To what McCain’s aides thought of her-I suspect they won’t be working for her in the future. Sarah will get the last laugh.

technopeasant on November 5, 2008 at 8:38 PM

It appears that ACORN was successful in stealing this election for The One. I think conservatives need to find ways to combat all the “laws” that violate the constitution (like early voting and absentee voting) and force our legislatures into submission.

Yeah right. A boy can dream, can’t he?

I’m packing up and moving to either Texas or Alaska (from Ohio).

connectthedots on November 5, 2008 at 8:40 PM

stefystef on November 5, 2008 at 8:26 PM

Yes, lets all blame Romney with no evidence whatsoever.

thecountofincognito on November 5, 2008 at 8:51 PM

connectthedots on November 5, 2008 at 8:40 PM

So our soldiers overseas get no vote?

thecountofincognito on November 5, 2008 at 8:55 PM

Bookkeeper on November 5, 2008 at 8:15 PM

Thanks for the reply – let’s hope we can make a difference in that effort.

Bradky on November 5, 2008 at 9:18 PM

Vets should get five vote and ten for familys…..!

driver on November 5, 2008 at 9:38 PM

Hear, hear! The GOP needs to go in the paleoconservative direction and return to its small government, prudence on foreign policy principles.

Palin is a good start, but she needs to shed the hawkish rhetoric.

MedSchoolCatholic on November 5, 2008 at 10:59 AM

When you say paleoconservative, you’re saying Ron Paul / Pat Buchanan. While they’re both decent men, they’re supporters are nuts. NO NO NO.

Sarah Palin is the obvious new standard bearer for the GOP, and four years is enough time for her to get “experience.” That’s nothing, but she has star power. No old dinosaur you drag out as a paleocon has that. Get someone with national security credentials as her running mate. And Tina Fey will be too old to play her by then!

chunderroad on November 5, 2008 at 9:40 PM

Sorry, still figuring out block quotes.

chunderroad on November 5, 2008 at 9:41 PM

OT:

Joe Wurzelbacher just kicked azz on Hannity. Everytime I see Joe I’m more impressed with him. This guy is really good.

progressoverpeace on November 5, 2008 at 9:41 PM

I’m still chafing that the party of relative austerity got excoriated because some idiot staffers thought it was a good idea to drop $150K on a wardrobe for Palin and her family, let it get out in the press, and left Palin hanging out to dry. I want to know exactly who those morons are.

BuckeyeSam on November 5, 2008 at 11:03 AM

Me, too. The funny thing is that I watched that debate with friends in Manhattan. That stylist’s S.O. was there, and he mentioned this. He is French, she lives in Manhattan, and they are both Democrats (him at least in his sympathies.)

Mr. Reach-Across-the-Aisle let a card-carrying Democratic spend all that money on Sarah Palin and run her mouth in NY.

chunderroad on November 5, 2008 at 9:48 PM

McCain lost because he is McCain. If Palin had been the top of the ticket, I believe they would have won. If Romney would have been running (especially with the economic problems), he wins in a landslide.

Last night, I was upset that Obama won. But it is tempered by the fact that McCain didn’t, even though I voted for him (well, technically I voted for Palin). But I was so torn between Chuck Baldwin or Bob Barr.

If the Repubs want to fix the party, they need to fix two things quick:

1. Remove Iowa and New Hampshire from the early primaries and reward states that are actually conservative. A western state (like Wyoming or Utah) and a southern state (maybe South Carolina or Georgia)

2. Closed primaries!! No more anybody can vote crap.

TechieNotTrekkie on November 5, 2008 at 9:51 PM

Crap, don’t look now but Merkley has pulled ahead of Smith in Oregon

Dudley Smith on November 5, 2008 at 9:55 PM

I am standing on the ramparts viewing the destruction through the clouds of settling smoke.

It seems to me that Conservatives better do some homework (especially the pseudo-conservative pundits). Let’s all take the time to read or re-read some of the works of the founding fathers, Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher. We all should have plenty of time in the evening now that we aren’t viewing any MSM progamming any longer.

Semper Paratus

DrStock on November 5, 2008 at 10:00 PM

Amen. The GOP lost because we nominated McCain. The assumption was that the base would “come around” at the end and it quite clearly did not.

Thanks to all of those Iowans who thought Fred wasn’t a good nominee because he didn’t invite himself to every barbecue and picnic he could find, and thanks to all of those “maverick” New Hampshirites morons who vote in whichever party primary they feel like that day.

I REALLY like the idea of moving the first primaries to a reliable 2-3 small red states (SC, WY, and WV come to mind). Get rid of the RINO’s and Wascally Mavericks and let’s pick an actual candidate with a philosophy that matters.

jr.ewing.78 on November 5, 2008 at 10:03 PM

Listen not to what they say, but watch closely to what they do.

5u93rm4n on November 5, 2008 at 10:34 PM

1. Remove Iowa and New Hampshire from the early primaries and reward states that are actually conservative. A western state (like Wyoming or Utah) and a southern state (maybe South Carolina or Georgia)

2. Closed primaries!! No more anybody can vote crap.

Exactly. We ended up with McCain as the nominee because the liberal ‘Republicans’ in those states picked him. And then abandoned him for Obama.

manofaiki on November 5, 2008 at 10:37 PM

I should also point out: there is a DISTINCT REASON the Republican Party primary system is set up in the fashion that it presently is: TO ENSURE A MODERATE REPUBLICAN IS CHOSEN, not a real conservative. THAT is the only reason why NH and Iowa are set up first.

manofaiki on November 5, 2008 at 10:41 PM

LGF continues their Jindal bashing with a fresh new post. Today’s ignorant drive-by: the GOP will commit “political suicide” if it goes in the “Bobby Jindal direction”. PLEASE pull their link – the dark motivation behind these very targeted attacks has become blindingly obvious.

rock the casbah on November 5, 2008 at 10:55 PM

Ideas here:

1.) Close the primaries….period! You must be registered Republican no earlier than 30 days prior to the primary in your state….kapeesh?

2.) Put Iowa…..well somewhere in the middle for the love of God! I mean honestly it’s caucuses are a joke and if the Huck-a-shmuck can pull out a win there simply by saying “Yea I believe in Jesus yall!” then you know something’s gotta change!

3.) All of the social cons are going to HATE me for this one but here goes: take abortion, gay marriage, and other personal moral choices OUT of the national political scene and return them to the states (where they belong) for Chrissake. Note the passage of California’s gay marriage ban for a good example.

If you really and truly believe in SMALL CONSERVATIVE FEDERALISTIC GOVERNMENT than you will admit (however belatedly) that it should have zero and I mean zero business telling you what you can or can’t eat, produce, purchase, smoke, ingest, do sexually, etc at the Federal level.

I am a strong Catholic and believe that both abortion and homosexuality are morally wrong. But I also believe (and freely acknowledge) that God gave us free will for a reason: namely that we would in the end chose His side for Good rather then the other for Evil. So I say very simply leave Gay Marriage in the hands of the States (where it belongs), return Abortion to the States (where it belongs), do the same for (brace yourselves here) marijuana, school choice, vouchers, and a whole host of other issues.

Allow folks to exercise their free will to give the legalization (and degree of) abortion, homosexual behaviors, drug use, school choice, vouchers, etc a simple up or down vote via referendum, initiative or State Constitutional Amendment…and then if you don’t like it…..

DRUMROLL PLEASE

MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE!

People (and businesses) already move into/ or out of areas that have higher taxes, better schools, more or less crime, etc etc. What is so hard about coming to grips with the fact that if you don’t like abortion or don’t want your offspring to get one simply move to another state that is more in line with your values. Hell, the taxes will probably be lower and schools better too

SgtSVJones on November 5, 2008 at 11:02 PM

I REALLY like the idea of moving the first primaries to a reliable 2-3 small red states (SC, WY, and WV come to mind). Get rid of the RINO’s and Wascally Mavericks and let’s pick an actual candidate with a philosophy that matters.

jr.ewing.78 on November 5, 2008 at 10:03 PM

That’s an excellent suggestion. I seriously hope the GOP has learned to ditch the open primaries after the circus from this year. I’d add a couple more suggestions along those lines:

1. Don’t let hostile Democrat operatives (i.e. the mainstream media) mediate the primary debates. There are conservative media stars now. Use them.

2. Weed out the cranks early. Ron Paul was standing on far too many of those stages, sucking up valuable oxygen.

3. “Reach out” to independents by convincing them of the superiority of conservative ideas, not by offering liberal ideas at a slightly discounted tax rate. You don’t win “moderates” by picking a couple of liberal or populist ideas and advertising your bipartisanship. You win them by convincing them your ideas are right.

4. Unite the Republican base *first*. Don’t pander to the center-left and assume the stalwart conservatives will just show up on election day. This time, they didn’t. Never forget that the Republican base is *different* than the Democrat base. The Democrats have huge constituencies that will show up and obediently vote for whoever the party tells them to. Republican candidates keep forgetting that crucial portions of their base will just stay home if they’re not motivated. They have to be motivated, because they will spend months listening to the media tell them the election is in the bag for the Democrat, who wins all the debates by default.

5. Stop with this insane belief that the media will suddenly start reporting on the candidates fairly. Every major Republican candidate seems genuinely surprised that the press refuses to report stories damaging to the Democrat, and goes hog-wild on even the smallest openings the Republican gives them. I don’t want to see that deer-in-the-headlights, “macaca” expression one more time. If you want Jeremiah Wright in the news, you have to bring him up yourself. If the press gets its hands on an explosive tape that shows the Democrat partying with terrorists, it’s going right into a lead-lined vault. Accept this and plan accordingly.

6. Stop overestimating the electorate. The Obama team ran a campaign designed to appeal to childlike intellects, and millions of them showed up to vote. Those silly little slogans, jingles, and endlessly repeated mantras? They work.

7. Stop underestimating the opposition. Every GOP candidate should begin every day by looking at himself in the mirror and repeating, “My opponent will do anything to win. There is no law they will not break, no standard they will not violate, and if I don’t call them on it, no one will.” Obama’s endless millions in illegal donations, and his well-funded ACORN fraud operation, worked beautifully, and there will never be any serious repercussions for it, because they won. Why do guys like McCain and Dole get the finish line looking bewildered that the other guy cheated, and waiting for someone to show up and blow a referee whistle?

8. Beginning fighting the battle to clean up our ridiculously corrupt election system NOW, not the day after 200,000 fraudulent registrations show up in a swing state. Hire lawyers, press endless suits, buy ad time to remind the electorate of Obama’s flagrant abuses. Junk the labyrinth of silly regulations McCain wove into a straitjacket for himself, and push for a simple system: FBI-monitored donations with 100% transparency, all donors extensively verified and posted on public web sites.

9. NEVER let the other side write the narrative. The future of American was thrown into mortal jeopardy in a couple of frantic, confusing days, in which the greatest political crime in modern history was perpetrated: the Democrats who caused the subprime crisis actually managed to blame it on the Republicans, who meekly agreed that nameless Wall Street fat cats (and presumptive Republican supporters) were somehow responsible. Everything from that moment, to today, was a long, painful epilogue. Never let the other side get away with a single scurrilous accusation of racism. Never let the other side write one single page of the narrative without fierce opposition. Never assume the electorate is too smart to fall for Democrat media manipulation. A Republican candidate is not just a contestant in a political race. He or she is a teacher, doing the job a long procession of Democrat party functionaries in the teachers’ unions, and Democrat operatives in the media, failed to do. Good teachers are patient, but firm.

Doctor Zero on November 5, 2008 at 11:25 PM

Its not that the dem’s are pulling in that many more votes. Its that the repub’s continue to poke their finger in the eye of their Base. They insult them, dis them and ignore them. So whup-dee-doo! the base stays at home on election day. Its surprising the GOP got as many votes as it got. The credit the votes it did get can go directly to Sarah Palin. DD

Darvin Dowdy on November 5, 2008 at 11:31 PM

Lets face it blacks and hispanics are racists; if we had an hispanic candidate, 95% of hispanics would vote for him/her

tocoloro on November 5, 2008 at 8:22 PM

Learning by example. FU.

The Race Card on November 5, 2008 at 11:37 PM

Yes, lets all blame Romney with no evidence whatsoever.

thecountofincognito on November 5, 2008 at 8:51 PM

The reason I distrust the romney camp is that the are the ones most vocal on conservative sites slamming Palin. Palin makes on comment and they rush in here with the
OMG I CANT BELIEVE SHE SAID TAHT SHE IS HORRIBLE !”

The Mitt backers have been the biggest Palin bashers. They hate that she got selected for teh VP over Mitt.

I dont know if Mitt had anything to do with this but his backers have been extremely obnoxious and its sad it almost makes me agree with Huck at times. Huck has been obnoxious but I havent seen one of his follower spout off about Palin in any negative.

William Amos on November 5, 2008 at 11:38 PM

Dunnage by the tonnage.

The Race Card on November 5, 2008 at 11:39 PM

LGF continues their Jindal bashing with a fresh new post. Today’s ignorant drive-by: the GOP will commit “political suicide” if it goes in the “Bobby Jindal direction”. PLEASE pull their link – the dark motivation behind these very targeted attacks has become blindingly obvious.

rock the casbah on November 5, 2008 at 10:55 PM

Yeah, OK. HA is going to remove LGF’s link because you can’t hold your piss. Give it up, buy some depends and just let the drool run down your quivering cheek.

The Race Card on November 5, 2008 at 11:43 PM

Its not that the dem’s are pulling in that many more votes. Its that the repub’s continue to poke their finger in the eye of their Base. They insult them, dis them and ignore them. So whup-dee-doo! the base stays at home on election day. Its surprising the GOP got as many votes as it got. The credit the votes it did get can go directly to Sarah Palin. DD

Darvin Dowdy on November 5, 2008 at 11:31 PM

I, for one, am trying to figure out where all these “new voters” are. From last I saw, the total number of votes for President during this fiasco was around 121 million. But there were also around 121 million votes cast for President in 2004, too. Considering that our population has grown a decent amount in the meantime, I fail to be impressed by this number of Presidential voters and don’t see the “record breaking” nature of it – not for the Presidential vote, at least.

Am I missing something?

progressoverpeace on November 5, 2008 at 11:43 PM

Vets should get five vote and ten for familys…..!

driver on November 5, 2008 at 9:38 PM

Why’s that? Does that include the ranks within our military with prior criminal convictions, habitual drug use or violent pasts?

I suggest only allowing the military to vote. That would complete your nationalistic wet dream.

The Race Card on November 5, 2008 at 11:47 PM

Race Card
And does it also include politicians that have prior convictions , habitual drug use and violent past . Does it also apply to celebrities , noted intellectuals , academics that also practice the art of plagarism and journalists who applies the art of misdirection , selective editing and media bullying ? You see , the difference between the military and the rest of the civilian population is this , while they are willing to give people a second chance , they are not very forgiving to the examples you provided above . Learn to read milblogs or better yet , talk to the servicemen themselves .

DinobotPrime on November 6, 2008 at 12:12 AM

Yes, record turnout of voters, but not a record of votes for president. Difference of around 20 million. Hmmmm.

This means alot of people got into the voting booth and only voted for local people and issues. They intentionally left the president category blank.

That’s how the turnout can be huge but republicans “down”. They weren’t down, millions simply didn’t punch the ballot for pres. THis is also where the PUMA vote disappeared to. Having vowed not to vote for Obama, once in the booth they found they just couldn’t give it up for McCain either.

Ace ODale on November 6, 2008 at 12:19 AM

This election, as well as the last midterm election, was about punishing Republicans for Bush. Republicans can’t win on folksy charm so soon after 8 years Bush’s “aw shucks” routine. Yes, I’m talking about Sarah Palin, but also John McCain. In a perfect world, McCain/Palin would have been judged on their accomplishments. In the world we have, they were judged on their similarity of speaking style to the most hated president since Nixon.

RightOFLeft on November 6, 2008 at 12:27 AM

Ace ODale on November 6, 2008 at 12:19 AM

Considering that many of the new BHO voters probably didn’t vote for anything but President, it all seems very odd. BTW, the number I saw for total turnout this year was 148 million. 26 million left on the vine. That’s a good 18%.

As far as I’ve been able to gather from historical data, the last few elections seem to look like this
(Pres votes/Total votes – in millions)

1996 94.7/105
2000 104/111
2004 121/126
2008 121/148

Hmmmmm. I wonder why this strange stat seems to get no attention.

progressoverpeace on November 6, 2008 at 12:48 AM

The stat I was talking about above wasn’t the missing votes from this year, but the absolutely anemic Presidential vote total. Not even an increase over 2004, while the population grew a good deal. But, instead, we get fed stories about how many more people are “voting”, as if anyone really cares about someone going and voting on their local tax proposal and nothing else.

progressoverpeace on November 6, 2008 at 1:03 AM

The Republicans screwed themselves. So what if McCain is not a “true” conservative. Bush was supposed to be a conservative. How’s that been going?

Number one, Bush was never supposed to be a “true” conservative. He never ran as one, and henever governed as one. Number two, even if he was supposed to be a “true” conservative, he didn’t govern as a “true’ conservative, and that’s the biggest irony of all. Bush governed so many ways as a democrat, yet democrats hate him, lol.

Tell me one ONE conservative issue that has worked in this country.

If you have to ask that question, you’re too stupid to understand the answer. Take another sip of kool aid and fantasize about how Barack the Marxist will lead us to the promised land.

xblade on November 6, 2008 at 1:04 AM

One thing I have not seen on the radar……..the 2010 census.
We need to make sure that the count is accurate and not tainted.
This will shift districts, and could bring a shift from the northeast to the south.

Too bad it will not be complete by the 2010 election.

scruplesrx on November 6, 2008 at 1:24 AM

William Amos on November 5, 2008 at 11:38 PM

I was a strong Romney backer and I also really like Palin. I did make a statement that she needed a good performance in the debate for here political benefit to the ticket to survive. I feel that was a legitimate analysis based on her performance in her previous interviews and how the public perceived them. I realize that the problems in the interviews may have been just as much about how the McCain campaign handled Palin as her own fault. Nevertheless, she was in a down spiral at that time. Fortunately she came out smokin’ in the debate and it became a moot point.

With all that said however, I STILL feel that Romney would have been a stronger candidate, for PRESIDENT. He would have been effective in solidifying the base. He would have been MUCH more effective in beating Obama on the economic issues. If Palin would have paired with Romney instead we might have had a chance.

Hawthorne on November 6, 2008 at 1:28 AM

Meanwhile, the Nikkei and Hang Seng are both down around 6.5%.

I don’t quite remember how the liberals liked to do it, but calculating the cost to the world of BHO’s election seems to be running around 5 or 6 trillion, already – given our BHO drop, today, and asia’s fall down the well, tonight. That’s one big bill … just for the appetizer. I can’t wait until he starts articulating his great new tax ideas and restraints on our productivity. That shouldn’t cost more than 8 trillion when he says it …

progressoverpeace on November 6, 2008 at 1:30 AM

Actually FiveThirtyEight reports that O’s vote count right now is at 63.7 million, and should go upto 65.6 million.

That is a gain of 3.5 million votes.

A Axe on November 6, 2008 at 1:33 AM

A Axe on November 6, 2008 at 1:33 AM

The increases in Pres vote totals from election to election are:

1996-2000 10%
2000-2004 16%
2004-2008 3.5% (and that’s adding 4 million to the total now)

Yeah, I can see the explosive growth in total Presidential votes. Very impressive.

progressoverpeace on November 6, 2008 at 1:39 AM

For those folks that are spewing nonsense about moving more to the center I will point out a couple of cogent facts here.

The people that lost were primarily the moderate Republicans. Dole, Sununu, Shays, etc all got beat. The conservative Republicans generally kept their seats.

Many of the new Democrats are conservative Democrats. We have more “Blue Dogs” in Congress than we have seen in some time. The Democrats are finding more success being conservative than we are finding being moderate. They are beating us at our own game.

So for the folks that keep insisting we go more to the center, put that in your pipe and smoke it. If we would have stayed conservative instead of listening to you guys, we would still have a majority in Congress.

Hawthorne on November 6, 2008 at 1:44 AM

Hawthorne on November 6, 2008 at 1:44 AM

Excellent points!!! This is the exact reason why we true conservatives didn’t want to support a RINO in McCain. Well, we tried it their way and we now get Obama and possibly 3 liberal justices on the supreme court that will skew our country to the left for 20+ years. Never again! We will reject the RINO’s and only support real conservatives. We will start this process by excoriating McCain until he leaves office. Along with him, we will expose his staffers so they will never again have an influence in a republican campaign.

csdeven on November 6, 2008 at 2:22 AM

Ideas here:

1.) Close the primaries….period! You must be registered Republican no earlier than 30 days prior to the primary in your state….kapeesh?

2.) Put Iowa…..well somewhere in the middle for the love of God! I mean honestly it’s caucuses are a joke and if the Huck-a-shmuck can pull out a win there simply by saying “Yea I believe in Jesus yall!” then you know something’s gotta change!

3.) All of the social cons are going to HATE me for this one but here goes: take abortion, gay marriage, and other personal moral choices OUT of the national political scene and return them to the states (where they belong) for Chrissake. Note the passage of California’s gay marriage ban for a good example.

If you really and truly believe in SMALL CONSERVATIVE FEDERALISTIC GOVERNMENT than you will admit (however belatedly) that it should have zero and I mean zero business telling you what you can or can’t eat, produce, purchase, smoke, ingest, do sexually, etc at the Federal level.

I am a strong Catholic and believe that both abortion and homosexuality are morally wrong. But I also believe (and freely acknowledge) that God gave us free will for a reason: namely that we would in the end chose His side for Good rather then the other for Evil. So I say very simply leave Gay Marriage in the hands of the States (where it belongs), return Abortion to the States (where it belongs), do the same for (brace yourselves here) marijuana, school choice, vouchers, and a whole host of other issues.

Allow folks to exercise their free will to give the legalization (and degree of) abortion, homosexual behaviors, drug use, school choice, vouchers, etc a simple up or down vote via referendum, initiative or State Constitutional Amendment…and then if you don’t like it…..

DRUMROLL PLEASE

MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE!

People (and businesses) already move into/ or out of areas that have higher taxes, better schools, more or less crime, etc etc. What is so hard about coming to grips with the fact that if you don’t like abortion or don’t want your offspring to get one simply move to another state that is more in line with your values. Hell, the taxes will probably be lower and schools better too

SgtSVJones on November 5, 2008 at 11:02 PM

I’m with you, Sarge. Especially point number 3.

FED-ER-AL-ISM!

Learn it, know it, live it.

Does anybody actually believe that overturning Roe will actually wipe out abortion in all 50 states? It won’t, but that was never the point of overturning Roe, the point of overturning Roe is to return the legislation regarding abortion back to the States, rather than having them imposed upon the entire nation via judicial fiat.

Gay marriage, civil unions, what ever: Matter for the individual states. And y’know what? The States, have a pretty good track record there! The only States where you have same sex marriage are in states where it was imposed by the State Supreme Courts.

Most stuff is a matter for the individual states. By contrast there are very few things the federal government should be concerning itself with. Some regulation of buisness and trade is required. That’s something for the federal government to do. National Security: The Federal Government’s primary role as far as I’m concerned. Issuing currency: definately. Interstate Law Enforcement: most certainly! Interstate highways and their maitinence: absolutely! Immigration control: Should be an intrinsic part of National Security!…just to name a few on the short list. There’s obviously more that the fed should be responsible for, but never should it be in any area that the Constitution specifically relegated authority to The States.

Fiscal conservatism, a strong national defense, and a truck load of Federalism!

That’s the party we NEED to be.

That’s the party people will vote for because deep down that’s the type of government most people WANT.

SuperCool on November 6, 2008 at 2:24 AM

A Axe on November 6, 2008 at 1:33 AM

To put it another way, if we look at the % of people who went to vote and voted for President we get:

% of voters who voted for President

1996 90.2%
2000 93.7%
2004 96.0%

and, if one assumes a total 125 million votes cast for President this year (66 BHO, 59 McCain), and 137 million who voted

2008 91.2%

if you use the 148 million figure I got from somewhere for the total who voted this year, you get

2008 84.5%

But it doesn’t really matter for the 2008 stat, Presidential voting this year was either one of the lowest in history (with my 148 number) or just not very impressive and much lower than 2004 or 2000 (with the 137 total voter number) and, without any question, broke a trend of increasing Presidential participation by voters. Usually, trends like this that are broken merit some attention. This one probably goes right back to the shamnesty debacle.

progressoverpeace on November 6, 2008 at 2:29 AM

SuperCool,

Actually some moronic people do-like the folks who protest at abortion clinics or my friend who is such a hard-up Christian that he had troubles voting for Romney simply because he had changed his position on social issues and was a “cultist” (Mormon)

That’s a part of the party that we will (unfortunately) need to cut loose from because they (single issue or primarily social voters) have become a baggage.

For example Bush’s push for the Defense of Marriage Act….or how about the Terri Schiavo fiasco that Congress got involved in?!

Again, I’m pro-life from conception until natural death but that was a personal issue that got insanely (and asininely) overplayed for ages! It is also our outgoing President’s biggest failure in my opinion…he focused way too much on this menial bullcrap that has next to nothing to do with the survival of our nation as an economic power

*He could have lifted the Executive Ban on Drilling Offshore post-Katrina but took until July of this year to do anything

*He could have (and should have) asked more people to join the military post 9/11….and once Iraq got put in the shitter (around mid 2004ish) started drafting folks and tossed Rumsfeld then. A lot and I mean a lot of good people would have probably not died had the strategic change occurred in 04 instead of 07

*Immigration Reform…don’t get me started. Just visit Michelle’s site for some info

*Rampant cronyism and utter cluelessness: Think “Good job Brownie” or “ICE Princess Juile Myers”

Finally….Thank you President George W Bush for completely and totally screwing over the Republican party and brand in a manner not seen since Richard M Nixon.

Now then “about-face!” on these RINO critters…hunt ‘em down and toss em out! The rest of us…”Forward March!” into the new, true, Federalist Conservative Republican Party

SgtSVJones on November 6, 2008 at 2:42 AM

And the BHO celebration continues – European markets are all down around 4%. Add some more trillions onto the cost of the BHO election …

progressoverpeace on November 6, 2008 at 5:26 AM

Mort Kondracke said the Republican Party is the party of old white people and we should befriend hispanics. Yeah, that worked out well, Mort. Douche

So far the best thing to come from this election is the freedom to walk away from the MSM and esp. those crusty old Fox allstars, like Mort and Fred. I thought I was going to barf watching them all patting themselves on the back last night- I guess Nina Easton has hated McCain ever since he beat Romney.

anniekc on November 6, 2008 at 6:50 AM

Doctor Zero is excellent but implementation is the key. And that is true in most things.

Why didn’t the Republicans have President Bush do the “Concession Speech”? Obama never ran against McCain….

IlikedAUH2O on November 6, 2008 at 6:54 AM

Also, will Fox ever let an opposing view appear against Hiraldo’s rants on amnesty. He just shows up at times and starts.

Did you say Ann Coulter?

She is a goddess but, no, I mean someone with a lot of knowledge and depth.

IlikedAUH2O on November 6, 2008 at 6:58 AM

Of Senator McCain’s defeat Leo Durocher said it best “Nice guys finish last”. While McCain had a president with a 24% approval rating, Obama had a Congress with a 14% rating.
What did McCain offer; “to each across the aisle” to this bunch of losers. Never one word tying Obama to this most useless, ineffective legislative session. What else did he offer strong criticism of any Republican effort to expose Obama’s past relationships with Wright, Ayers, Rezco, “Frank” , no effort to force Obama to come clean with his birth certificate, medical records, his college records, his college friends, his contacts in Pakistan , no effort to expose the real Obama, a closet Marxist.
What else did he offer; a record RINO past with McCain Feingold, the gang of 12, doing damage to President Bush at every opportunity to keep his ‘darling of the NYTimes and liberals in general role of Senator Maverick and appearing time after time with Senator Lieberman either tethered to his hip or peering over his shoulder as if we had a two headed candidate. McCain’s judgment is called into question as he could not even recognize ‘fair weather liberal friends’ who stabbed him in the back over and over again. McCain never called into question Obama’s confessed use of cocaine which would have barred him, as a military person, from any work with or control of nuclear weapons under the DOD PRP program. And so he soon will be C-in-C of the largest nuclear force in the world.
Ronald Reagan never offered to meet his opposition, be it democrats or communist, ‘across the aisle’. He laid out a program that challenged ‘across the aisle” thinking and defeated his opponents not appeased them. Predictably McCain the appeaser lost. Nice guys finish last.

Patrick49 on November 6, 2008 at 7:42 AM

Also, will Fox ever let an opposing view appear against Hiraldo’s rants on amnesty. He just shows up at times and starts.

Did you say Ann Coulter?

She is a goddess but, no, I mean someone with a lot of knowledge and depth.

IlikedAUH2O on November 6, 2008 at 6:58 AM

Well, Michelle Malkin, until Geraldo threatened her physically, and O’Reilly was to much of a punk to dress Geraldo down.
That should have shown everyone O’Reilly’s true colours.

right2bright on November 6, 2008 at 8:04 AM

Okay, now when do we start? I say we dump”The Republican party” tag and rename ourselves the Conservative party or the Federalists. What states are we targeting for the 2010 Senate races? What do we have to do to build Sarah up? Can Jeff Flake play a part?

red131 on November 6, 2008 at 8:11 AM

Tell me one ONE conservative issue that has worked in this country.

stefystef on November 5, 2008 at 8:26 PM

Besides the U.S. Constitution?

Easy. Tax cuts. Tax cuts bring in more revenue. The problem is spending…

eanax on November 6, 2008 at 9:22 AM

For those folks that are spewing nonsense about moving more to the center I will point out a couple of cogent facts here.

The people that lost were primarily the moderate Republicans. Dole, Sununu, Shays, etc all got beat. The conservative Republicans generally kept their seats.

Many of the new Democrats are conservative Democrats. We have more “Blue Dogs” in Congress than we have seen in some time. The Democrats are finding more success being conservative than we are finding being moderate. They are beating us at our own game.

So for the folks that keep insisting we go more to the center, put that in your pipe and smoke it. If we would have stayed conservative instead of listening to you guys, we would still have a majority in Congress.

Hawthorne on November 6, 2008 at 1:44 AM

Agreed. Becoming more like the Democrats will not help politically. It will simply marginalize more and more conservative, common sense folks…

eanax on November 6, 2008 at 9:26 AM

I think that we, the ones who live outside of D.C., need to come to grips with a few things.

First, we were beaten by a skilled politician who is not a Marxist, not a Muslim, and not a danger to the country. It’s a good bet that he’ll win a second term if he is as good at running the government as he was at running his campaign. He did not get my vote but I wish him well as I do any new President. He will be my President come January.

Second, D.C. is not the center of the universe (despite what its denizens and courtiers believe) – it is only the seat of the federal government. We need to stop obsessing about D.C. and start building a ground game to win at the state and local levels on state and local issues. Do you believe in federalism or not? If we can’t win local elections in California, New York, or Illinois, then we are always going to have a small margin of error when it comes time to electing a President.

Third, as a party we should stop looking to elected federal officials to be our Presidential nominees. We should be looking for good, qualified people to send to D.C., not accept the ‘next in line’ old GOP custom that gets us a Bob Dole, John McCain, or even George H.W. Bush as our nominee. I’m not knocking them as men, they are fine men. None of them, though, believed that a good, bare knuckled election fight. They were too accustomed to the ways of Washington D.C.

Sheerq on November 6, 2008 at 10:32 AM

Where did those numbers come from? They are either old or just plain wrong.
CNN shows O:64,094,027, M:56,521,177

corona on November 6, 2008 at 10:57 AM

Great advice…that I was giving over 6 years ago starting with Norm Coleman (no drilling in ANWR) and No Child Left Behind. I warned people that GWB was making a huge mistake by cuddling up to people that would never vote for him (lefties).
But, I was beat down time and time again by the BS mantra “We HAVE to elect Republicans!!!”
Well, how did THAT work for ya.
And I hear some of those same buttheads/bullheads now trying to convince me that they’re “on board” to clean the party up.
Don’t pee on my back and then tell me it’s raining.
You are the people I’ve been screaming at for over 6 years.
From the apropos quote from Samuel Adams:”…go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!”

Amendment X on November 8, 2008 at 1:52 PM

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