Video: Bishop Finn says “give consideration to your eternal salvation”
posted at 2:12 pm on November 3, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly
I don’t think Bishop Robert Finn thinks “Hope and Change” provides an effective substitute for Catholic teachings. In an interview with Kansas City’s Chris Stigall today, the bishop makes it clear that Catholics who vote for a radically pro-abortion candidate risk formal cooperation in an excommunicating act:
I would say, “Give consideration to your eternal salvation.” Because to vote for a person who has expressed a fanatical determination to not only support abortion as it exists now but to remove all limitations on it through the Freedom of Choice Act, and to extend it without any recourse, throwing out all of the efforts of citizens over the last 35 years to place reasonable limits on abortion, that voting for a person who has expressed his determination to do this to Planned Parenthood, to NARAL — that you make yourself a participant in the act of abortion. That’s gravely wrong, and you mustn’t do it because your eternal salvation is tied up in that important choice.
Bishop Finn references paragraphs 2274 and 2322 of the Catechism, which plainly sets abortion above most other offenses. Finn warns against formal participation in abortion, this time by enabling the government to dismantle the meager restrictions in place in some states to limit abortion on demand. The term “participant” is no accident; a participant in abortion becomes excommunicated latae sententiae,” “by the very commission of the offense.”
Finn reminds the faithful that their actions have consequences. Perhaps that message will be heard, although the relative silence from the pulpit over the last few months may have deafened some Catholics already.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »
This is the direct working of Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict. They started putting people in places of power that actually speak up for what is right. I am glad I belong to a church that stands up for the most innocent.
Reaganite84 on November 3, 2008 at 2:16 PM
I am now initiating the timer to see how long it takes for Finn’s personal information to make it onto Daily Kos…
CarpeFishem on November 3, 2008 at 2:16 PM
Ooops!!!
Did I see him extending his middle finger?
Mcguyver on November 3, 2008 at 2:17 PM
Thank you Bishop Finn. Very wise.
You cannot believe in God & His word & vote for someone who upholds policies, laws, etc that go directly against Him.
That does not make us a theocracy, but any society that holds its unborn in such contempt will pay the ultimate price.
Badger40 on November 3, 2008 at 2:18 PM
Will they look for back child support?
Badger40 on November 3, 2008 at 2:18 PM
Just do what’s right Catholics….just do what’s right.
Let’s roll.
ex-Democrat on November 3, 2008 at 2:18 PM
Amen, Father.
Capital Mess on November 3, 2008 at 2:19 PM
‘Bout time someone in the Church hierarchy said this. Probably should have been said about a month ago, and then repeated every Sunday thereafter. Archbishop Nienstedt didn’t say much of anything here in the Twin Cities, at least that got reported anywhere.
And I heard nothing from our priest except that they had some brochures on a table somewhere. He put a whole lot more attention on selling “fair trade coffee.” And that, in a nutshell, is the problem with the Church leadership.
Mr. D on November 3, 2008 at 2:21 PM
It sends a thrill up my leg when you talk about kicking people out of (your) Christianity. Jesus would be proud.
ThackerAgency on November 3, 2008 at 2:21 PM
Well it sounds to me like just who constitutes a participant is open for debate…Bishop Finn may feel voting pro-choice makes one a participant, but im sure there are arguments that can be made to the contrary.
ernesto on November 3, 2008 at 2:23 PM
Vote for ‘x’ or go to hell? That’s not what the big J taught.
Greenhelmet on November 3, 2008 at 2:24 PM
Threatening someone with eternal fiery torment based on how he/she votes? Scary stuff. It’s all fun and games until they figure out that it works… then any matter of “faith” and/or “morals” becomes fodder for controlling elections.
With that said… vote McCain. :)
mankai on November 3, 2008 at 2:24 PM
So why don’t Catholics just ask the Pope who they should vote for?
ThackerAgency on November 3, 2008 at 2:25 PM
The Church doesn’t actually kick you out, it just formally declares where you’ve already placed yourself by your actions. It’s usually a good idea for people to know the consequnces of their actions.
e tan e epi tan on November 3, 2008 at 2:26 PM
Is this the same catholic church that refused to invite Kerry to their charity roast (because he was not a “good” Catholic)? Their invitation to Barry at this year’s event, was tantamount to an anointing.
Although I do not see Barry winning, it is frustrating to see such limp-wristed attempts at deflating the aura of Barry.
In the face of a real Marxist revolution, the anti-liberation-theology Catholics should have taken the lead in educating the masses. Instead they issue edicts of carrot and stick.
anti-boomer on November 3, 2008 at 2:26 PM
Go Bishop Finn!!
journeyscarab on November 3, 2008 at 2:27 PM
I am a proud Catholic but this issue trancends religion how any one can defend the taking of a human life in it’s most defencless form is to make him self un worthy of the human family
Chicostein on November 3, 2008 at 2:27 PM
We’ve seen this kind of disagreement before.
Church of England.
Now, the Church of Obama.
All fixed!!
portlandon on November 3, 2008 at 2:28 PM
They’re not yet quite used to this “vote” thingy. Pius IX is still ticked off at Garibaldi.
mankai on November 3, 2008 at 2:29 PM
yeah He would. do you think He’s all for cutting a hole in the back of a babie’s head and sucking out the brains??
please.
Paul turned people over to Satan, that they would be taught not to blaspheme…
right4life on November 3, 2008 at 2:29 PM
Let’s look at what Jesus actually said he would say:
“He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
pedestrian on November 3, 2008 at 2:29 PM
The church is not kicking them out of Christianity. What happens to them is a consequence of their action.
Excommunication is seperation from the Church. It’s not a seperation from God. Only the believer can seperate themselves from God. The believer seperates himself from God by being unrepentant in the commission of sin.
This distinction has been explained to you at least 5 times before. I see that you would rather hold fast to your bigotry, then think for yourself.
MarkTheGreat on November 3, 2008 at 2:29 PM
Jesus threw people out of His Father’s house for a lot less…for chaning money in the temple. Of course, He wasn’t throwing believers out, only the posers.
Without getting into a big thing on religion, I will just say this: Following Jesus is voluntary. We are free to choose, and whosoever will may come. But if someone truly wants to follow Jesus, they don’t get to pick which of his command they obey and which they do not. If you want to call Jesus savior, you must also call him Lord. And if you choose not to, that is fine, your choice, and whosoever chooses not to is completely free to make that decision and I respect it, other Christians respect it, and so does Jesus. He does not force Himself upon anyone.
And anyone who says you can believe it’s ok to murder and still be a follower of Christ, that is simply not the case. That is not a follower of Christ.
JustTruth101 on November 3, 2008 at 2:30 PM
The SFB crowd has now officially weighed in with its immoral nonthought. Thank you for making it official, Ms. Thacker.
AubieJon on November 3, 2008 at 2:30 PM
This audio was originally posted on The Catholic Key Blog which is the blog of Bishop Finn’s diocesan newspaper. Several other strong statements by Bishop Finn are also available there.
If you appreciate what Bishop Finn is doing, there’s a link to his annual appeal on the blog.
Jack Smith on November 3, 2008 at 2:30 PM
Why don’t you try to make sense for once.
MarkTheGreat on November 3, 2008 at 2:30 PM
Vote for Obama and you’ll go to Hell! …I like it, it works for me.
Wyznowski on November 3, 2008 at 2:31 PM
Well baptists already ask Dobson, maybe it DOES make sense.
ernesto on November 3, 2008 at 2:31 PM
Catholics need more leaders willing to follow Christ’s lead and turn over some tables and knock some sense into some misguided heads. Voting for Obama is voting for abortion, PP gets that so should everyone else.
darcee on November 3, 2008 at 2:31 PM
ThackerAgency on November 3, 2008 at 2:21 PM
This is considered self excommunication. You kick yourself out by the act itself until you repent and receive sacramental absolution. It could also be called taking responsibility for your actions.
clarifides on November 3, 2008 at 2:31 PM
The traditional theological virtues: faith, hope, and love.
Obama’s theological virtures: change, hope, and G-D America.
phronesis on November 3, 2008 at 2:31 PM
So you feel that voting for somebody who has promised to eliminate all restrictions on abortion, and who has promised to make tax dollars available to pay for it, has absolutely no moral responsibility for all the new abortions that will occur?
MarkTheGreat on November 3, 2008 at 2:31 PM
Where was this during the past few months and the primaries? Straight talk from a person in the know.
neconsrv on November 3, 2008 at 2:32 PM
They don’t have to ask the Pope. No thinking person would vote for Obama. It’s that simple.
AubieJon on November 3, 2008 at 2:33 PM
When did half of the United States of America stop from being heartsick at the mere thought of an abortion?
God help us all.=(
latinchic on November 3, 2008 at 2:33 PM
I live in S. TX and the local Bishop has radio ads put on by some group, just heard them today, about this same subject. I wonder if big brother will look into the Church IRS status?
L
letget on November 3, 2008 at 2:34 PM
As usual, you love to demonstrate how little you know.
MarkTheGreat on November 3, 2008 at 2:34 PM
Why don’t you read up some on Catholic theology.
Oh right. ThackerAgency. Never late to a Catholic Bashing Party, and always seen serving the whine.
The church doesn’t exommunicate you, YOU excommunicate yourself by facilitating the advancement of abortion.
We’ve gone over this is several threads.
Educate yourself, moron.
BKennedy on November 3, 2008 at 2:34 PM
Nope. Wrong, but thanks for letting us know that you don’t understand.
AubieJon on November 3, 2008 at 2:35 PM
You’ve got it wrong. These people are kicking themselves out. Our shepherds are desperately trying to keep them in. It’s not about being in a club. It’s about being in a state of grace. All a good bishop can do is to teach and encourage, which is what Bishop Finn is doing.
And in reference to:
I feel for you. Our priest brings the issue up bluntly each and every week. I believe others in our area do too, as does our local Catholic Miscellany newspaper. My hypothesis is that excessively liberal priests, poorly formed in the 60s and 70s, have gravitated to congregations in “blue states” where their tendencies will be appreciated by parishioners.
gl_thecatholic on November 3, 2008 at 2:35 PM
Ed, I am personally disgusted that our bishop, through the local pastor, has chosen silence on this issue. There was an oblique reference in this Sunday’s parish flyer about one candidate being pro-life, but it didn’t have the courage to even mention McCain by name. There was nothing in the homily and some non-specific reference in the closing thoughts. At least they had the minimal good sense to distribute a flyer from Operation Rescue that left no doubts whatsoever about the Catholic teaching on life and how committed Catholics must NOT vote for Obama. This bishop can kiss my Catholic a$$ before I ever give another penny to the Bishop’s Appeal. My donations will now go straight to Right To Life or the local Christian women’s shelter. This was a powerful teaching moment and he chose to punt. Shame.
SKYFOX on November 3, 2008 at 2:35 PM
More precisely… separation from “the only vehicle of salvation, outside of which there is no salvation.” Depending on the degree of excommunication, the Church warns of being “bound to Satan” and cast out of “the only ark of safety.” Again, threatening eternal punishment based on a vote… scary stuff… but nothing new.
mankai on November 3, 2008 at 2:36 PM
I wish the Catholic Church would just put all the fancy sounding jargon to the side and just cut to the chase. Namely, you vote for B.O., and you are going to HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
pilamaye on November 3, 2008 at 2:36 PM
Well there are certainly arguments to make to that effect…besides, the operative word here is PARTICIPANT. A participant is more than someone who bears some sort of moral responsibility for something. If what you say is true, then anyone who votes for a candidate that supports the death penalty bears a moral responsibility for the guilty man’s murder at the hands of the state.
All i said was that there seems to be intentional ambiguity in that statement to keep people like you from labelling a certain voting pattern as tantamount to committing an abortion yourself thus damning you to hellfire
ernesto on November 3, 2008 at 2:37 PM
Membership in a religious group is a free association in this country. If someone doesn’t like the doctrines of a particular denomination, they can join a different one with more liberal views.
What Catholics like Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy, Kerry, et al, want is the political benefit of being identified with a Catholic without the political drawback, if you will, of that denomination’s doctrines. They try to have it both ways. The Church is saying that if you call yourself a Catholic, then you’ve taken the doctrines as a package deal. No “Cafeteria Catholics” who pick and choose what to believe.
Kerry kept saying his Catholic beliefs on social justice “informed” his political views. He never said that on abortion. He and the other CC’s are for the joinder of church and state policy when it suits them and opposed when it does not benefit their political fortunes.
Wethal on November 3, 2008 at 2:37 PM
excommunication aside. The One has access to the book of life. You prognosticate; he decides. If you don’t believe that God knew you, when you were in the womb, then you are simply not a believer in the scriptures that Jesus taught.
anti-boomer on November 3, 2008 at 2:38 PM
It is not “Catholic bashing” to merely state what the Church has been teaching for centuries. Benedict used the phrase “to natural death” recently when speaking on “life” issues. What happens if they come after the “death penalty?” What if they formalize “the Living Wage” as an issue requiring assent?
mankai on November 3, 2008 at 2:40 PM
Educate yourself, moron.
BKennedy on November 3, 2008 at 2:34 PM
BKennedy, you’re trying to teach a pig to sing. Remember, that only wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Leave him to his slop; looks good on him.
SKYFOX on November 3, 2008 at 2:40 PM
And if you vote for someone whose aim is to bankrupt coal companies, cause energy prices to skyrocket, and spread the wealth around, it should be considered your fault. Please forward your address to receive your a$$whuppin’, boy.
AubieJon on November 3, 2008 at 2:40 PM
I’m Southern Baptist, but I really appreciated Father Corapi’s three-part Eleventh Hour Election Alert. He made a powerful and cogent statement on the issue of abortion as it pertains to the election. I wish every Catholic voter could hear it before tomorrow. Heck, I wish every American would hear it before tomorrow Father Corapi is one of the most effective anti-abortion speakers I know of. I recommend his Death Wish series as well.
flyfisher on November 3, 2008 at 2:41 PM
I believe that if Our Lord and Savior came to earth today, there would be people who would ask him: Which side of the issue are you for, Pro Life or Pro Choice?
VTWaldrup on November 3, 2008 at 2:41 PM
Not an option. The Catholic Church recognizes only one church (”the true church”). By “willingly” leaving the Catholic Church one has chosen “no salvation” (current catechism and Vat II). If you willingly and knowingly either “leave” or “refuse to enter” the Catholic Church… the Church says “you cannot be saved.”
mankai on November 3, 2008 at 2:42 PM
Hey, if you don’t believe the Church has the authority to say which actions (including certain votes) lead to Hell, then you have nothing to worry about. Just don’t call yourself a Catholic, is all. Protestant at best.
Gaunilon on November 3, 2008 at 2:43 PM
if “macho man” father pfeger can scream his bloody head off in church about hillary clinton, then the catholic church can certainly mention obama’s name as the one candidate that enjoys babies being ripped, sliced, and diced from a mother’s womb.
Nuge em on November 3, 2008 at 2:43 PM
A humans strongest instinct is to survive. To kill a human while in the womb goes against all of nature. It is an absolute outrage that some in the world would go to the extreme to defend the quality of life of a chicken or a cow but yet demand for abortion on demand as a right.
Chicostein on November 3, 2008 at 2:44 PM
Vote for ‘x’ or go to hell? That’s not what the big J taught.
He also didn’t teach that taking an innocent life was fine and dandy. Being an actual Christian is a difficult thing, and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God does not provide cover doing what you want when you want.
Keep in mind that this is the same Jesus who crafted a whip and drove the money changers from the temple.
I R A Darth Aggie on November 3, 2008 at 2:47 PM
I doubt you really know what the Creator of the universe, our God and Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ taught.
Here’s a sample:
If that is true about someone who merely causes a little one to stumble, what would He say about those who intentionally murder a little one?
davidk on November 3, 2008 at 2:47 PM
Thank God for bishops like Finn and Chaput. I pray for the ones who won’t speak, that God would open their eyes, because when the Apostles are asleep, Judas is awake.
VanPalin on November 3, 2008 at 2:49 PM
The topic of voting for a pro-abortion candidate was presented to Catholic congregations in the Dallas/Fort Worth area in a letter from the local bishop. Here is the
link.
The DMN received many whiny letters to the editor from Catholics who disagree, some of whom threatened to leave the church. I hope they do leave since they are not following Christ’s teaching and are in a state of perpetual sin. Life trumps all other reasons for voting for a candidate.
I hope and pray the Catholic church follows up next Sunday by denying communion to anyone who has knowingly voted for a candidate who promotes the culture of death.
lclark1706 on November 3, 2008 at 2:50 PM
I am happy to see someone standing up for what they believe in. I have no problems at all with that sort of Christian.
sofiretwo on November 3, 2008 at 2:53 PM
Not terribly subtle….thank God.
funky chicken on November 3, 2008 at 2:53 PM
I love these hypocrits who think you can belong to an “organized” religion, and yet still pick and choose which of that organizations “rules” than will abide by- If you don’t want to abide by Catholic doctrine, go be a Methodist or a Baptist, but quit saying the love in your heart is all that matters! Life is life, regardless. Also, maybe you could explain why it’s all right to take the life of an infant, but the death penalty is off the table?
anniekc on November 3, 2008 at 2:53 PM
Not really.
Matticus Finch on November 3, 2008 at 2:54 PM
The problem is that the faithful Catholic (all 70 million in the USA) is given this choice: vote how we tell you, or choose being bound to Satan and being separated from the only vehicle of salvation on earth. That’s scary.
As for voting GOP, how many Catholics have done so for decades now only to still see millions of babies murdered? I don’t believe voting equates to participating in the act (I’m pro-Life, for the record). I think Mormonism should be legal, but that certainly doesn’t mean I give it my assent or that I approve of it theologically.
mankai on November 3, 2008 at 2:54 PM
A humans strongest instinct is to survive. To kill a human while in the womb goes against all of nature. It is an absolute outrage that some in the world would go to the extreme to defend the quality of life of a chicken or a cow but yet demand for abortion on demand as a right.!!!!
Chicostein on November 3, 2008 at 2:55 PM
Lipstick comes in slop flavor?
BKennedy on November 3, 2008 at 2:55 PM
So now you will vote one way or be damned? JFK rolling in grave.
indythinker on November 3, 2008 at 2:56 PM
As a Catholic I am torn. While I intend to vote for McCain for a VARIETY of reasons, I don’t really like it when bishops, cardinals, or the Pope, get up there and effectively tell me how to vote. What happens if the abortion issue is ever finally resolved and they move on to the socialist stuff mentioned in another topic thread? Then what? It’ll be you excommunicate yourself for not voting to join the EU or something? What about war? They didn’t support us on the Iraq war. ;-)
My point here, to fellow Catholic conservatives, is don’t cheer too loudly because you never know what the next strong suggestion regarding voting preference will be.
worlok on November 3, 2008 at 2:57 PM
He’s not standing up for anything, he’s threatening the eternal fate of 70 million Americans. They can’t just choose to “leave” and “join another denomination” because Rome recognizes no “other” church and “leaving” means one “cannot be saved.” That’s a heckuva choice! Vote as we instruct, or risk eternal torment.
mankai on November 3, 2008 at 2:57 PM
Uh, Protestants are not the equivalent of Catholics that have no moral standards. This discussion is descending into the “you are not the boss of me” argument. The church has not only the authority but the responsibility to correct followers and to issue directions, like “keep yourself from sexual impurity.”
No good argument is based on authority, unless that authority is omniscient.
anti-boomer on November 3, 2008 at 2:57 PM
” Bishop Finn says “give consideration to your eternal salvation”
24 hours before election? Cuttin it a little close arn’t ya Bishop?
christene on November 3, 2008 at 2:58 PM
You’re almost half a century off on your knowledge of Catholic teaching. You have some catching up to do on your reading…
Y-not on November 3, 2008 at 2:59 PM
Of course, Protestants don’t believe having sex with children is one of the sacraments like the male Catholic elitists do.
jim m on November 3, 2008 at 2:59 PM
davidk on November 3, 2008 at 3:00 PM
Actually, y-not, the current Pope backpedaled on this quite a bit a few years ago. Will look for the current information later.
jim m on November 3, 2008 at 3:01 PM
The current catechism and Vatican II are off? How can the current catechism be “off”?? Especially since Vatican I and Leo XIII stated that decrees may NEVER be reinterpreted.
Even so, are you suggesting that Catholic doctrine in regard to faith and morals is fallible? You can’t have it both ways.
mankai on November 3, 2008 at 3:01 PM
There are adults in this country that grew up being taught from birth, that abortion is legal. The idea that it can be wrong is so outside of the box for most of these Americans, that hearing it from a church doesn’t make a dent.
It would take excommunications, announcing that anyone planning on receiving the Eucharist that has had, or supported, or voted for named elected persons are asked not to come up for the sacrament. It needs to be added that to do so is truly the most dangerous spiritual things you can do, since excommunication is designed for the protection of those that would be destroyed eternally by receiving Communion.
Hening on November 3, 2008 at 3:02 PM
not participating, but being complict in the enabling evil to exist.
VTWaldrup on November 3, 2008 at 3:03 PM
Jim, grow up.
worlok on November 3, 2008 at 3:03 PM
If you don’t believe the Church is correct in its teachings on abortion, why then do you believe the Church when it calls itself the ‘one true church.’ If you can disregard one teaching of the Church, why not all its teachings?
Dee2008 on November 3, 2008 at 3:04 PM
Your link takes us to Vatican II… follow the Dogmatic Constitution and you will find this:
mankai on November 3, 2008 at 3:04 PM
To the trolls, one question:
You love your “social justice” stuff. What good is all the social justice in the world if you don’t have the right to life in that world?
Answer, please.
I don’t think you can.
So STFU.
either orr on November 3, 2008 at 3:05 PM
Dee2008, I don’t believe the Church is the “one true Church.” My point is this, Catholics are telling other Catholics who won’t vote as told that they should just “leave” and join ” another denomination” when Rome recognizes only “one true church” (Benedict called the notion of any other churches “absurd”); and that by “leaving” the Catholic “can not be saved” according to the Catholic Church.
This is a very scary development for liberty and one John Adams warned about.
mankai on November 3, 2008 at 3:08 PM
Can you provide a citation for this?
aengus on November 3, 2008 at 3:10 PM
Well what was at question in the discussion you decided to join was whether supporting a candidate amounted to participatory responsibility. It was stated that supporting a pro-abortion candidate amounts to participatory responsability in the act of abortion, a damning offense to the church. I then stated that, given the aforementioned logic, he who supports the death penalty via the ballot box is also indeed guilty of participating in the act of murder, another damning offense. Point being, pro-lifer catholics do not extend their pro-life logic to the death penalty, which amounts to hypocrisy.
ernesto on November 3, 2008 at 3:13 PM
In most protestant churches in New York, catholic means simply universal not “Holy Roman of the Vatican.” Of course, this is pandering to catholics.
There is one church, naturally. Jesus is not a polygamist, and the church is his bride. I don’t think ratzinger can argue otherwise.
anti-boomer on November 3, 2008 at 3:14 PM
Catechism of the Catholic Church
A link to the Catechism’s relevant teaching (The Fifth Commandment – Thou Shalt Not Kill). The catechism covers legitimate defense, intentional homicide, abortion, euthanasia, and suicide as it relates to the sacredness of human life.
karmatis on November 3, 2008 at 3:16 PM
http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=43
All the epithets I have here given to the Romish policy are just, and will be allowed to be so when it is considered, that they even persuaded mankind to believe, faithfully and undoubtingly, that God Almighty had entrusted them with the keys of heaven, whose gates they might open and close at pleasure; with a power of dispensation over all the rules and obligations of morality; with authority to license all sorts of sins and crimes; with a power of deposing princes and absolving subjects from allegiance … All these opinions they were enabled to spread and rivet among the people by reducing their minds to a state of sordid ignorance and staring timidity, and by infusing into them a religious horror of letters and knowledge. Thus was human nature chained fast for ages in a cruel, shameful, and deplorable servitude to him, and his subordinate tyrants, who, it was foretold, would exalt himself above all that was called God, and that was worshipped… Let the pulpit resound with the doctrines and sentiments of religious liberty. Let us hear the danger of thralldom to our consciences from ignorance, extreme poverty, and dependence, in short, from civil and political slavery…
mankai on November 3, 2008 at 3:17 PM
Look, in past elections the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops has told Catholics to vote on the basis of Catholic social teaching. We were urged to weigh ALL the issues and choose the candidate we thought was the best fit.
THIS election, however, we’re presented with a candidate who is more radical on this issue than any other in history–even including in the Congress. Obama has 100% ratings by both Planned Parenthood and NARAL, and has promised to sign the Freedom of Choice Act upon his inauguration. What the bishops are saying this year is that because of his stance on this issue, we must give much heavier weight to Obama’s position on abortion. It isn’t just that he’s pro-choice–it’s the strength of his position that outweighs his position on other social justice issues.
Dee2008 on November 3, 2008 at 3:17 PM
My grandfather, a Baptist evangelist minister, told me all Catholics are going to hell anyway so I don’t think a vote one way or another will make any difference.
lexhamfox on November 3, 2008 at 3:18 PM
The death penalty has significantly different theological underpinnings, and the only argument Popes have made is that in America today the death penalty is not a necessary punishment given all other options available to us.
Death for a murder conviction is however a legitimate punishment Biblically when administed by the state.
But once again, Armchair Scholars fail to recognize that there is light between killing those guilty of taking life and killing those innocent of any crime.
BKennedy on November 3, 2008 at 3:19 PM
a better translation is thou shall not murder…because the Lord told the people of israel to kill others at times…and to kill murderers. Romans 13 gives the sword to the government to punish evildoers.
right4life on November 3, 2008 at 3:20 PM
I’m a Southern Baptist. Last Sunday my Preacher was saying that everyone who claims to be Christian, that is, a follower of Jesus Christ, needs to vote according to the Bible. He didn’t come out and say for whom we should vote, but he did say that a True Christian could not vote for a supporter of abortion, and then come to Church on Sunday and call themselves a Christian.
tre on November 3, 2008 at 3:22 PM
Thanks, mankai.
aengus on November 3, 2008 at 3:22 PM
But he didn’t claim infallibility to which all Baptists must “bow will and intellect” whereas Vatican II teaches that all Catholics must “bow will and intellect [to] both Pope and bishop” even when the Pope is not speaking ex cathedra. Nor did he claim that the Baptist Church is “the only vehicle of salvation on earth, outside of which there is no salvation… no matter how blameless in other aspects of life.” Nor did he claim that if one either left or refused to enter into his church he “could not be saved.”
mankai on November 3, 2008 at 3:23 PM
A sweeping generalization that is wrong in many, many cases. Many Catholics, pro-lifers at that, believe that the death penalty has no place in American jurisprudence. Catholic teaching on the death-penalty is that it should “rarely, if ever” be used. But even given that: the execution of a convicted murderer is far different than the indiscriminate murder of innocent, un-born children.
darcee on November 3, 2008 at 3:25 PM
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »