And, quite possibly, the Anti-Christ.

Don Carne on October 31, 2008 at 5:18 PM

Jesus 2.0

“So the Jews in Israel aren’t persecuting Christians huh? Christians in Israel might disagree.”

The Muslims are killing the Jews in Palestine. Can the same be said of the Jews?

davod on October 30, 2008 at 7:45 PM

The lions are killing the impalas. Can the same be said of the hyenas? Let me know when that matters.

Thanks Liddy.

…all the smears circulating on the fringe about The One being a Muslim…

I never thought O’Bama was a muslim. He’s more like AP, an atheist. He was brought up a dhimmi in Muzzieland, and joined an atheistic “church” when he got back to the US. O’Bama doesn’t believe in God. Notice he never corrects, or chides, anyone for calling him “Messiah”. O’Bama is a blasphemer and a heretic. And, quite possibly, the Anti-Christ.

One of the “Godless” members, in discussing the fact that few, if any, in Congress support their ideals, said it is a long term project to change their minds.

This is the same as Ayes and his teaching of revolution is more important than teaching the three Rs. After twenty years Ayers has achieved his goal.

Given enough time, and plenty of Sorus money, the Godless will achieve their goal.

It’s disappointing to see any group of people proclaim that there is no God, but as a Christian, it is even moreso with the secular, leftist, atheist Jews. These were God’s chosen people, according to the Bible.

Were is the key word.

The jews are no longer the “people of God”.

The Christians are the “people of God”.

The jews lost that status as they rejected the Incarnate Word of God Himself and persecuted His followers.

Yes the Jews have been responsible for persecuting Christians for 2,000 years and they still do it to this day.

Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

SaintOlaf on October 29, 2008 at 2:53 PM

So the Jews are no longer the people of God? I seem to remember the Apostle to the Gentiles saying,

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Written by Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles. Written TO the churches of Rome, AFTER the rejection of Jesus collectively by the Jews. So at the very time you say the Jews were no longer God’s people, Paul was saying just the opposite.

I think I’ll hold with Paul.

If you really want to see the relationship of Jews and Christians, go read Romans, chapters 9 – 11. Be prepared to do a little studying, though.

But I’ll throw out a little preview: God didn’t replace the Jews with the Christians as His people so much as add the Christians to the Jews as His people.

Which is exactly why evangelical Christians have become known for being friends of the Jews.

Sorry for getting off topic, but I try not to let people get away with claiming that the Jews are no longer God’s people. That is exactly the kind of false doctrine that makes Jews suspect Christians of hating them. I consider it scandalously close to the old Blood Libel.

The Muslims are killing the Jews in Palestine. Can the same be said of the Jews?

For Christians anyway. Then again, I don’t believe morals should progress. I think that’s one of the flaws of modern thinking.

Esthier on October 29, 2008 at 8:00 PM

Maybe progress isn’t the right concept, so much as fulfillment. If the religious model is wrong – if we don’t live forever, if we’re not being weighed on some cosmic scale of justice – then we’re doing this living thing all wrong.

It’s a lesson to conservative atheists, too. (All two percent of us.)

I am at my desk, weeping like a baby. My heart is so full of grief for all of you.

I just quoted chapter and verse that very clearly says that he did. Adam and Eve’s alternate choice of evil was already there before they chose it. God put the “evil choice” there for them. God does not do the evil himself, he simply allows it to exist as a means to try the righteous.

NeverLiberal on October 30, 2008 at 1:11 PM

No, not really. Those are very shallow responses.

And the tree wasn’t evil. The act of disobedience in eating from it was.

God didn’t make disobedience evil, it simply is.

According to the Bible, evil did not exist in the world until Adam and Eve brought it here by their disobedience, if we’re going purely by the Bible.

Esthier on October 30, 2008 at 9:26 AM

I just quoted chapter and verse that very clearly says that he did. Adam and Eve’s alternate choice of evil was already there before they chose it. God put the “evil choice” there for them. God does not do the evil himself, he simply allows it to exist as a means to try the righteous.

To get the sense of that statement, one merely has to look at how the left is treating Palin’s videotaped welcome speech to an Alaskan separatist party, or how the right treating Obama’s documented interactions with Ayers and Doehrn.

Of course, it’s not the left that Ms. Dole is appealing to with this ad — they tend to be nonreligious; it’s the center-right, who do tend to be religious, and are the “peelable” votes from Ms. Hagan. That Ms. Hagan’s campaign is screaming about the ad indicates that it is indeed hitting home.

To answer your question, God created evil to try the righteous.

NeverLiberal on October 30, 2008 at 12:48 AM

That’s a contradiction in terms. God, being holy can have nothing to do with evil by the very definition of the word evil.

According to the Bible, evil did not exist in the world until Adam and Eve brought it here by their disobedience, if we’re going purely by the Bible.

The fact that Jews still persecute Christians in Israel to this day?

SaintOlaf on October 29, 2008 at 4:44 PM

Hmmm, I thought they were persecuting the Palestinians.

MadisonConservative on October 29, 2008 at 6:24 PM

So the Jews in Israel aren’t persecuting Christians huh? Christians in Israel might disagree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EII5Km3jN3U

That too is one of those large questions. Why does evil exist?

Esthier on October 29, 2008 at 5:21 PM

Amos 3:6,
shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Proverbs 16:4,
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Daniel 11:35,
And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end:

To answer your question, God created evil to try the righteous.

Oh, we talk about it some when it comes up, but he’s not sure himself. It’s like he believes, but you’re not going to find him in church (unless we’re visiting his parents).

That sounds like a lot of people who were raised in church. At some point you have to decide if you really believe that or not.

We both believe that faith is a highly personal thing, and religion is one of the few topics that will make us fight.

I completely agree. Christianity in my mind is about nothing else but a relationship with God. Many try to make it about other things like legalism or hell, and that really misses the entire point.

At least you both care enough to fight about it.

I’m a Christian, so obviously I’m convinced that Christ is the answer; however, I think it’s very important for everyone, including Christians, to think critically and passionately about this issue.

My husband has made me become more fiscally conservative, and more fiscally minded period. I have made him a little more laid-back about social issues (he’s fine with my mom, after all).

I know the feeling. When I met my husband, I was practically legalistic, not in the sense that I felt everyone had to live up to those standards but in the sense that I felt I had to.

I’ve cut myself more slack since being with him and changed my mind on a lot of issues.

We met when I was pregnant, a very transitory stage for me (I was becoming more adult in my thinking), and assuming fatherhood of Sophie changed him too.

I didn’t realize you were pregnant before him, though that does explain your comment on the other thread about you dating past.

We used to agree more about religion (we even discussed finding a church together), but we diverged… and we’re okay with that. Our children will still have morals, and guidence – because we love them.

Anna on October 29, 2008 at 7:08 PM

You’re very much right that they will, though I’d still recommend trying to find a church. It’s not just to instill morals. There’s a community you find at a church (at least the right church) that you can’t get anywhere else outside of your own family.

From the little I know of you, it sounds as though you could use that sometimes, especially while your husband is away. My mother had Hepatitis C and then breast cancer pretty much back to back. Before that church was more like an obligation, but after being diagnosed, the church came together in a way it hadn’t done before all to help her out, from cooking her dinners to just being there for her.

Then again, I’m not one to talk. Ever since I left my hometown for college I haven’t really been able to find a church where I feel comfortable.