The role of Hezbollah and Hammas as political parties is interesting and here in the U.K we have had experience via SinnFein/I.R.A. Please don’t just discount that ,there is lesson’s learned.

My reason for posting was to alert people to go beneath the headline.
U.S leaders and right wing posters are calling for a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Iran.They are just struggling to come up with a reason.

Another war based on bad information,i thought the U.S was a beacon for liberty.I am so disappointed as many in the U.K are.

I stand by my statement that only people here seem to believe ahmainejad called to ‘wipe Israel of the map’,hopefully you all can see what a load of propaganda that was to incite hatred against Iran.

Why not get an Iranian blogger to write an article and get a proper debate going.

this ad is MUCH better. and hilarious

lodge on October 29, 2008 at 5:16 PM

You Tube appears to have pulled it. Did you save a copy for us?

For a group that gets their marching orders from the Iranian Foreign Ministry and has ties to the IRGC, claiming that Iran has not attacked anyone for 300 years is an attempt to use State level concepts on sub-state level groups that Iran funds and controls. Internally the Persian population has had problems with their treatment of non-Persian cultures: Arab, Kurds, Baluchs, and Azeri all come to mind as problem points due to societal repression of those ethnic enclaves. If the US can spend hard years learning of the hundreds of tribes, clans and multiple religions in Iraq to help the Iraqi people come to some form of internal agreement amongst all these sub-groups that cross ethnic and cultural lines, then that really does say something about how well that can be done or not. Yes, the US supported Saddam, but don’t forget the ‘arms for hostages’ deals in which advanced equipment was given to Iran in exchange for Iran releasing hostages held in Lebanon. Some of that equipment, particularly TOW missiles proved vital in stopping Iraqi armored assaults…

Personally I don’t like support to either side in that conflict, nor the Kissingerian view of ‘its a shame both sides can’t lose’, but then I was only one voter in my Nation. I did not like arms for hostages nor the work done by North & Co. with the Syrian arms dealer Monzer al-Kassar or the PRC, beyond the dealings with Iran directly. I don’t see anything plauditory in giving one of the worst arms dealers on the planet with deep connections to Hezbollah a good entree into Central and South America… nor the death toll that has followed and continues to follow those actions.

I really do hope that the people of Iran can find a way to rid themselves of this toxic regime heading towards deep fascism and to help protect Iran from some of the dealings that have gone sour on it, and the even worse folks aiming to get a piece of the Iranian pie from the north. Dealing with the interlocutors of the Red Mafia is never a good deal and when they get the opportunity to squeeze the Iranian people via natural gas and do so, one really does have to wonder which way the dirt flows in those deals. It is very strange that one of the richest oil reserves on the planet now has one of the worst infrastructures on the planet that is desperately trying to meet internal needs for such things as gasoline because the old refineries in Iran have not been properly maintained since the overthrow of the Shah. That cannot be good for the Iranian people, having to see gasoline imported due to the incompetence of the regime in power, and yet watching vast sums go out to Hezbollah, Mafioso and ill regimes in North Korea and Venezuela all to a belief system that has blood around it wherever it gets its agents and terrorists in place. That cannot be good for the Iranian people, having their culture degraded by dealing with those sorts of people, who don’t care one tiny bit about liberty, freedom or even letting folks lead a good life.

But then I have actually been paying attention to the region, reading up on it and its history, and its peoples and don’t think simplistic views or programs can come to any good without understanding the simple underpinnings that drive peoples, cultures, societies and Nations. That has made the entire region from sub-Saharan Africa through the Middle East through Central Asia and even into Western China a real hard mess to deal with. But then the West can’t even figure out the Balkans, so hopes of having the West understand something slightly more complex than that is a bit much, no?

Iran says attack us and we will retaliate.
U.S says attack Israel and we will annihilate all of Iran.

The men who attacked you on 9/11 were mostly Saudi’s not Iranian’s,we are awaiting the U.S led invasion.

Saddam did kill his own people,however he gassed the Kurds with the WMD given by America.

Donald Rumsfeld shook hands after their deaths. The U.S stood by and watched Saddam crush an uprising against him,even provided logistic’s.

Sanction’s led to one million deaths of children, the U.S response-it’s worth it.

Yes Saddam was abrutal dictater but he is supposed to be the bad guy.Free nation’s should hold themselves to a higher standard.

STFU,i wasn’t sure what that stood for.I have just asked my 9 year old who is going to tell his teacher that i made him swear.
I am in the U.K and i will now be reported to social services who will storm my house and take him into care.Actually that might save me money over Christmas.

The world isn’t good v evil. I feel many are able to de-humanise a whole region as evil.
You want to free the Persian’s ?Have you ever asked what do they want?

Why not get an Iranian blogger,visit there sites.Persian’s are a proud and ancient civilisation with there own empire history.They deserve and want respect.They are the most pro U.S/west in the region. 70% are under 40 and have 70%literacy rate.

They want change but from the ground up. As in Iraq you can’t remove the top layer and expect all to adjust.

The way to do this is to support these parties with money and resources.

I have no doubt this is what is going on,the west is definetly helping causing civil distruption.

Jimc
These people are relevant,all life is equel,right?
Where the death’s on 9/11 irrelevant are they just collateral damage ?

I would appreciate it if some posters watch this and tell me what you think.

mags on October 29, 2008 at 8:03 PM

The video maker is a Michael Moore wannabe. This is probably no more relevant than Moore’s depictions of pre-war Iraq.

I would appreciate it if some posters watch this and tell me what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFfHjNximGg

mags on October 29, 2008 at 8:03 PM

Nice video but I think it misses every point that matters.

Nobody here believes that all Persians are racist meglomaniac killers. But the ones in power are.

Nobody here believes that all Samaritans are racist meglomaniac killers. But the ones in power are.

No one here believes that all liberals are idiotic dhimmis. But the loud ones calling the shots are. And if they get their way, they’ll get a lot of us killed in clones of 9/11.

Iran will be aligned with the US again, once the people in your video are free. Just like the same types of people in Iraq are aligned with the US, now that they have been freed.

BTW, Saddam killed 10 times as many Iraqis as have been killed since the invasion.

You need to go sit down and STFU.

They are singing death to America in the style of the beach boys-get a life,they are just buddies.

Iran was a U.S allie following 9/11 ,it was them that persuaded the northern allience to co-operate.If any soldier was shot down they would return them,agreed to the use of their borders.

Even trying to fund and support the Afghan army under U.S leadership.

When they were included in the axis of evil, it caused the end of the reform party which gave rise to Ahmadinejad.

I would appreciate it if some posters watch this and tell me what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFfHjNximGg

We’re screwed ‘08.

During the cold war Kruschev said he wanted to ‘crush America’ and destroy it,did you think that was a huge threat against you?

I would think so. There wouldn’t be much need for a Cold War otherwise. Ever heard of the Cuban Missile Crisis, M.A.D., the film Dr. Strangelove?

Ahmadinejad did not call for israel to be ‘wiped off the map’. Everbody else in the world knows this,even experts in farsi in Israel have addressed this.

He literally said “Israel disappear from the page of time.” He did not say Zionism will disappear from the pages of time. A distinction that the leftist apologist Juan Cole who started this nonsense didn’t address.

Your arguments differentiating between Zionism/Israel as compared to USSR/Russia and Nazism/Germany are artful but the Iranian Government have made no such clarification. They chant “Death to Israel” at rallies.

It far likelier the Guardian Council have in mind the Crusader Kingdom of the Early Middle Ages which occupied some of the same territory and completely disappeared after two centuries.

The dictates of Islam state that land that once belonged to Muslims must be reclaimed. That is why Osama Bin Laden is driven crazy by the “tragedy of al-Andlus” and so many in MME are so anxious to destroy Israel.

Why should we meet with Iran while their nation supports terrorism and wants to destroy one of our closest allies?

Lets also not forget Iran wants to destroy the “big satan” too, and that would be the US!

If they want to kill all jews ,why don’t they kill iranian jews.
These communities are represented in parliment,there are churchs and synogues in Iran.

During the cold war Kruschev said he wanted to ‘crush America’ and destroy it,did you think that was a huge threat against you?

Iran has not attacked any country in 300yrs…

mags on October 29, 2008 at 5:39 PM

ROFTL

Seriously?

So acts of war against America, Israel and Lebanon don’t count?

Hint: Storming an embassy and taking everyone hostage is an act of war. It is an attack on the sovereign territory of another nation.

Hint: Funding, training, and arming a “political party” to conquer another nation and wage war against a third is also an act of war. It is an attack on two countries.

I think the U.S knows more about ‘war by proxy’. Have you any idea of U.S foreign policy?

Do you know how many dictators the U.S has supported?
Funding and supporting Israel to bomb countries is war by proxy.

Who needs to learn? You all do.

End with “Tough Question.” But why not hammer the point home by adding “No answers” with a photo of angry Obama or “Confused answers” with the classic photo of a perplexed Obama?

I agree, then again I liked it so I’m a racist too. – Bishop on October 29, 2008 at 5:35 PM

I’ll see your racism and raise you one bitter gun clinger.

Republican on October 29, 2008 at 6:11 PM

My guess — and it’s only a guess, based on the way we’ve seen Osama Obama operate — is that video editors are working on cleaning up the tape even now, excising anything that might (justifiably) embarrass The Messiah.

As soon as Obama approves it (figure Nov. 5th) it’ll be on the Times’s website.

BTW — the ad is damn good. I think it might be cut to a :30 without losing its punch. That’d make it right for extensive broadcast use.

There are only 6 days left. No sense in hoarding campaign cash–run this on TV as is. If Obama can afford 30 minutes, Mac can afford one.