Video: McCain supporters confront guy linking Obama to Islam
posted at 3:15 pm on October 20, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Via Ben Smith, momentarily veering away from the media’s “Family Guy” narrative, the American News Project captures a vignette from the pogrom that wasn’t.
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Esthier,
I enjoy your posts and almost always agree with you, but the views you are expressing on islam and what the ideology really encompasses are naive, at best. That’s okay. Everyone gets a mulligan.
progressoverpeace on October 20, 2008 at 5:55 PM
So, in Esthier’s world … definitions, rulebooks, guidelines, and manuals written and handed out by the founder himself serve no meaning. Instead, the people are free to simply make up their own meaning as they go along.
How convenient. Sort of like liberals thinking the Constitution is a living document, able to mean whatever Esthier says it means. Quick! Esthier! Grab a few stone tablets and re-write the Ten Commandments! You have the power to completely change what Christianity means!
Oh wait. Unfortunately, the Qur’an has never been re-written and still instructs all the same instructions to kill all non-believers. Maybe you can fix that for them and write your own version. After all, the Bible and the Qur’an are meaningless. All that matters is what people say it means, right?
Maybe if enough of us just go out and say that Obama is losing by 30 points in the poll, it will become reality. Because Ethier says all that matters is what people claim, instead of what actually is.
Gregor on October 20, 2008 at 6:00 PM
As you so succinctly say, “Indisputable”.
techno_barbarian on October 20, 2008 at 6:01 PM
I think the early voting is a farse. The campainging isnt even done yet. Something critical could come about to change folks minds and what will they do then?
johnnyU on October 20, 2008 at 6:06 PM
Yo MC, did you not see any of the videos or reports about the Obama’s black liberation theology church (who openly advocate ‘killing all the whites’) whole-heartedly endorsing and supporting nation of islam’s farakan who called Obama the messiah?
techno_barbarian on October 20, 2008 at 6:07 PM
Fine. I’m naive. Forget arguing merits, because I’m simply naive, me and the other millions of Muslims who have never harmed a person in their entire lives.
I believe in free speech, and I believe in freedom of religion (not from religion).
In many instances I agree with many of you. Anyone who believes the Islam needs to be spread by force is someone who should be watched, period.
You argue that the moderates aren’t really Muslims; I argue that they are religious and not political. But either way, we’re both in agreement about who should be punished. You call them “true” Muslims; I call them jihadists. In the end I believe we want the same result, though I believe freedom would be restricted under a law that treats all who identify as a Muslim the same way.
And in the end, regardless about how anyone feels about Islam, it is a bad tactic to try and paint Obama as a closet Muslim. This is just a fact.
Esthier on October 20, 2008 at 6:11 PM
The argument is not about Islam. The problem with obama is a return to the welfare state.
For Democrats, Justice demands that, if I earn $100 and you earn $0, I should give you $50 dollars so that we get equal results. (This results in discouraging work and encouraging sloth.)
For Republicans, justice demands that money should belong to those who earn it. (This has the benefit that work is encouraged and sloth discouraged.)
As Ronald Reagan said: “In the beginning of the empire, taxes were low and revenues were high. At the end of the empire, taxes were high and revenues were low.”
Welfare states that spread the money around lead not to properity but generalized poverty due to lack of initiative and investment.
KW64 on October 20, 2008 at 6:12 PM
That really is the bottom line for anyone who has sincerely studied the teaching of islam. It amazes me how many of you are bending over backwards to absolve islam and the koran.
Yes the lower case is intentional. “The koran is How to be a Ganster For Dummies”. Read it for yourself (damn, how I miss Robert Spencer).
The moderate Muslims are, in fact, apostates. Would that it were not so. But it is what it is.
I’m all for balance and tolerance, but I also have a strong sense of self-preservation when confronted with 1400 years worth of consistency.
For those that have not read it, I strongly urge you to read Mark Steyn’s “America Alone”.
techno_barbarian on October 20, 2008 at 6:15 PM
It’s still incorrect for titles, and you’re not supposed to capitalize “for”.
Esthier on October 20, 2008 at 6:18 PM
HEH… I guess I was wrong, I thought she was a nice Christian lady.
(Kidding! It isn’t easy to speak or type precisely when upset)
Like that time when 0bama himself slipped and said ‘My Muslim Faith”.
LegendHasIt on October 20, 2008 at 6:21 PM
This is not a “closet muslim” debate (for the most part) but a “muslim ties” debate. The guy was raised a muslim in Indonesia. That is a fact of his life and shaped his personality. Personally, I wouldn’t want anyone raised in Indonesia to be President and I can’t imagine that many Americans would.
progressoverpeace on October 20, 2008 at 6:22 PM
If Democrats would confront their own fringe nuts in this manner, our elections process might have a chance at being much more sane and civil.
The Ugly American on October 20, 2008 at 6:23 PM
Respectfully, Esthier, the fact that moderate Muslims exist is only proof that some Muslims wish to break from the true teachings of islam. That makes them apostates, and it makes them vulnerable to the koran’s direct message to kill any apostates.
The only way islam will truely change is if it is reformed. Reformation is anathema to islam. It simply is not going to happen. It’s been that way for 1400 years and shows no signs of change.
Muslims themselves can and do change, thankfully. But islam will not change.
techno_barbarian on October 20, 2008 at 6:24 PM
Right. Whatever the merits of the argument, we’ll be flayed alive by people who are smart enough to know better, and disliked by people who aren’t.
Someone may have addressed this already, but concern about Islam and concern about Christianity aren’t the same. Like Buckley said during the Miers nomination, there is a predilection for fairness and charity that is inherent in Christianity not found in Islam. I wish that guy hadn’t made that argument.
emailnuevo on October 20, 2008 at 6:25 PM
…then again, this thread is proof that we still have a lot of work to do in our own camp.
Though I suspect there might be a bit of astroturfing going on.
It stinks of hippies in here.
The Ugly American on October 20, 2008 at 6:27 PM
OK, Last time picking on you on this thread, I promise:
Now you demand that people follow the Tarabian Style Manual precisely, but the people that disobey the specific Commandments of the Quran are of the true Muslim faith?
Wow.
LegendHasIt on October 20, 2008 at 6:29 PM
Again, it is a comprehension problem on your side. My original post was responding to Olaf, not yours. You interjected and added a new layer, if you had read his posts then you would understand. My concern is not to meet every argument, but to finish the one engaged in. Just because you break in with a nonsensical post, doesn’t mean I drop my original argument and take yours up. You need to adapt your post to our banter if you want to jump in. Notice Olaf dropped off once being shown that his argument was wrong…you should have followed his lead.
I pointed out, in the context of responding to Olaf, that your misinterpreted, and you did. The Japanese/Americans refers to an earlier post that we were engaged in (and that you hopped in, glad you did, just next time catch up on your reading).
In other words, you stepped in without understanding, you embarrassed yourself and now you are trying to save face by calling me names…
Once again gregor, you have been schooled…
right2bright on October 20, 2008 at 6:31 PM
It is a good thing that Islam frowns on humor because otherwise we would hear nothing but laughing Mohammedans listening to the gentle hearted kaffirs defending them.
BL@KBIRD on October 20, 2008 at 6:34 PM
LEAVE ESTHIER ALONE!
davidk on October 20, 2008 at 6:37 PM
“Moderate” muslims are pretty fair-weather friends. When challenged/pushed by more “orthodox” muslims, they tend to roll over without a fight.
My examples?
Secularity in Turkey hangs by a thread, and has been rescued time and again only by the intervention of Turkey’s military. The rank and file “moderate” muslim Turk seems easily swayed to vote in Islamicists with the right words.
My direct experience with “moderate” muslims in Indonesia. I think a better word than “moderate” would be “uneducated” (remember kids, that doesn’t imply dumb.) The average low- to middle class muslim knows little about the teachings of the Koran, and lives life in happy indifference to it. But when someone wants to stir up trouble, these otherwise indifferent muslims will fall in step with the islamic drumbeat with little or no coercing.
TexasDan on October 20, 2008 at 6:38 PM
Excellent post.
I would just change one little bit about the word ‘rescued’. Secularity in Turkey is not “rescued” by the military, exactly. The state was set up so that the military is constitutionally charged with taking over the government if islamic parties gain too much power. Ataturk understood islam and the threats it poses to secular government, which is why Turkey has the secular military as the ultimate ruling power – a notion that is totally abhorrent to any reasonable Westerner.
progressoverpeace on October 20, 2008 at 6:43 PM
I realy don’t see how Islam and the Constitution are the same, unless you some how do.
Not everyone wants to read about islam. Have you not seen how many books are out there concerning it and not knowing enough about it, you can pick up the wrong type and possibly agree with the Koran and not even realize it. Indoctrinating yourself so to speak.
I miss having the gentleman whom posted about Islam on this site and I wish he would come back! He was very interesting and explained items concerning the Koran and Islam very well.
But picking on someone whom may not understand islam, is not what someone should do.
Esthier is a good person who may not understand islam. Who in the hell on here does other then a muslim? I am not muslim and I do not understand it fully as I do not understand everything in my faith but that doesn’t make me a bad person now does it.
BTW, I believe the constitution is a living document… does THAT make ME a liberal? I think not.
upinak on October 20, 2008 at 6:45 PM
Very true. Uneducated is not dumb. It would be interesting what the illiterate people of that region and the middle east would say if they could read all of the Koran and be able to comment on what they read.
upinak on October 20, 2008 at 6:49 PM
Dear idiot,
I didn’t “step in” at all. I made absolutely no comment regarding the Japanese Americans. That is only part of your fabrication to defend your stupidity. My comment was specifically directed, as anyone able to read basic English can see, at the difference between Christians and Muslims.
As for being “schooled” …
I wouldn’t want to be associated with your education.
Gregor on October 20, 2008 at 6:50 PM
We’ve heard it a million times. It’s drummed into us: It’s unAmerican to insult Islam. Yet it seems quintissentially Islamic to insult America (or at least freedom)? I for one am not bending over backwards for Islamic dogma, or media dogma for that matter. What’s more disgusting is how everyone is gratuitously asked, in round-robin fashion, if the’re “offended.” Soliciting offense is the national pastime of the MSM. This is their fallback technique to divide us.
PS..What was untrue about those bumper stickers, anyway?
Western_Civ on October 20, 2008 at 6:53 PM
Esthier hasn’t even attempted to understand Islam. That’s the problem. There are people who defend it, without making any effort to verify the defense first.
If you want to defend Islam, that’s fine. All I ask is to read the instruction manual first, before feeling like you’re qualified to discuss the topic.
Gregor on October 20, 2008 at 6:54 PM
Well anyone who isn’t interested in reading about Islam shouldn’t make definitive statements about it.
You mean Robert Spencer.
Yes some “scholars” are liars who have been bought off by the Saudis but with careful research it is possible to ascertain the truth. I’d recommend starting with Spencer or getting references from his site jihadwatch.org
No ones picking on Esthier but she is insisting that Islam is not a fundamentally violent religion, an assertion I and others cannot allow to go unchallenged.
Islam is not incomprehensible. The essentials can be easily understood in a short time.
aengus on October 20, 2008 at 6:56 PM
Hey attack me if you want.. whatever. I am up here in the Last Frontier. Hold that thought as I club a freaking caribou for lunch. But I am not defending islam… if you think I was then you need to read what I wrote AGAIN.
And attacking someone who doesn’t totally understand it just shows that you might want to explain it to them… not tell them they are stupid. Take a moment and think about it… don’t be like Sullivan.
upinak on October 20, 2008 at 6:59 PM
Oh puh-leeze!!! Now even the right has to be politically correct. That’s bullsh-t.
Questions: Why does Obama’s campaign have a Muslim Outreach Director? Did any other American presidential campaign have that?
Why does Obama’s associates include Rashid Khalidi and Edward Said, both anti-Jewish terror supporting Muslims?
Why does Obama support the SAME Muslim demands of Israel? Namely: A divided Jerusalem, a connection between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, no checkpoints, and lots of others.
Why does he say:
What “ugly” direction? And would he stand with them unconditionally?
No, no, no. He may not be a practicing Muslim, but he sure in the hell has a Muslim heart. Oh I know, this is just all a coincidence that Obama holds the same opinions as supporters of Islamic jihadists.
I would have gladly bought 50 of the bumper stickers.
Andy in Agoura Hills on October 20, 2008 at 6:59 PM
Thats a flat out lie and gross misrepresentation of the truth. Ellison NEVER hid being a Muslim. I live in Minnesota; you really out to get your facts straight.
your_worst_enemy on October 20, 2008 at 6:59 PM
I wonder if the guy was actually sent from the Obama camp…..
CrazyFool on October 20, 2008 at 7:00 PM
Look at what estheir said and how I explained it and then take a moment and realize that is how MOST of Americans think or understand islam and muslims. And I did mention Spencer.. since I truely miss him here on HA.
But asking people in America about Islam and muslims… you are going to get the same reaction. They do not understand nor do they want too.
upinak on October 20, 2008 at 7:00 PM
Then you should have stayed out of the argument Olaf and I were having, my comment and original statement about Orthodox Christians was aimed at him (seeing as he is one). You stepped into the middle of an argument and I corrected you, it was a good lesson for you, you needed it.
But thanks for the insult, that is the way to win an argument when you don’t have facts…
Schools out, you can go home and play now…
right2bright on October 20, 2008 at 7:02 PM
All one needs to know about islam can be summed up in a few pieces:
1) islam means ’submission’
2) Apostasy is punishable by death
3) muslims must kiss the ground 5 times a day, every day.
4) There are no days of rest in islam
5) islam runs on a totally lunar calendar, with the addition of any intercalaries being punishable by death
These are very simple facts about the ideology of islam that drive straight to its core motivations and serve to shape the cultures that live under it. Some may seem inconsequential, but they are not.
For anyone who doesn’t buy this, they can just look at all of recorded history to see how islam has acted and interacted with others, along with the state of every muslim country on Earth, now.
progressoverpeace on October 20, 2008 at 7:03 PM
why is that always asked? Is it so incomprehensible to you that that (omg!!) your party might have a few bad seeds?? If so, just read through the comments on this site to reinforce the idea. Practice makes perfect.
your_worst_enemy on October 20, 2008 at 7:04 PM
Andy in AG,
The late Edward Said wasn’t a Muslim. He was a Christian albeit an anti-Jewish, anti-American Islam sympathiser.
aengus on October 20, 2008 at 7:04 PM
Spencer is that YOU!?!?
upinak on October 20, 2008 at 7:05 PM
Wins a prize for accuracy.
emailnuevo on October 20, 2008 at 7:05 PM
P.S. That sounds sarcastic; wasn’t supposed to be.
emailnuevo on October 20, 2008 at 7:06 PM
elected official, and Muslim: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saghir_%22Saggy%22_Tahir
He’s a REPUBLICAN.
your_worst_enemy on October 20, 2008 at 7:06 PM
Wow. I’m flattered by the comparison. Thanks, upinak.
progressoverpeace on October 20, 2008 at 7:06 PM
Eh, same difference.
Andy in Agoura Hills on October 20, 2008 at 7:07 PM
Yes I understand that is how most people probably react. I understand but I do not accept it and try to explain the fundamentals of Islam to people when it comes up in conversation.
That is a great pity because its very important in understanding the past and the world today.
aengus on October 20, 2008 at 7:09 PM
I think plenty of people understand the basic principles of Islam, it is just so much “mis-information” or out of proportion distorted information is bantered about, then throw in the fact that we have had several years of these discussions, and everyone gets a little sensitive…wait a minute, chasing a gator off my lawn (you’re not the only one with “critters” around)…often these arguments start with one small out of line comment.
The old adage that “a little bit of information is dangerous” isn’t more true then talking about Islam, everyone has an “informed” opinion. And I think basically we all agree. Anything in excess can be dangerous.
right2bright on October 20, 2008 at 7:10 PM
I feel kind of bad about picking on her, because I like and respect her as a person. But sometimes I just have to pick on illogic.
As to the Constitution being “a living document”…. I rather imagine that what YOU mean by that term and what the leftists mean by it are vastly different.
Besides using that term to make people think that they can make it mean whatever they want it to mean, I have a feeling that the thing THEY like best about it being “a living document” is that they believe it would be easy to kill with one well aimed Senate or House bill or one Executive Order.
LegendHasIt on October 20, 2008 at 7:11 PM
True.
True as well, but when you go out .. say to a resturant … look around and ask someone… and watch their reaction. Some have such a small understanding it would blow you away, but not like you would think it would blow you away.
I have already had this arguement with someone concernign what they concider it compared to what I concider it. And I was seriously sickend on what they think should have been.
upinak on October 20, 2008 at 7:18 PM
Nobama was raised and received tutelage in the Islamic tradition…he then converted to Christianity[the brand that loves abortion]and his views reek of socialism,but is he a socialist? If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,treads water like a duck…it’s a duck. Upwards of 95% of my black brothers will vote for him because he’s “transformative”. I don’t remember transformative being synonymous with being black. I guess I’ll vote for Mac being white and not transmogrified
paulsmos on October 20, 2008 at 7:30 PM
Somehow, I just cant’ put my arms around the “go up to a stranger in a rest. and ask them about Islam”. So I will take your word for it. Sound like a good way to get your butt kicked…wait a minute, trying to get these Canadian Geese off my property…there… think I will pass on the rest. quiz.
right2bright on October 20, 2008 at 7:32 PM
Ok maybe I am the type most people can have a conversation with. My BF no so much, but he knows he can discuss items with me.
My example was today actually. I was having lunch with my BF at a nice resturant (yeah nice and he and I wearing Carharts) and the lady next to us was talking to possibly a lunch date talking politics and so on. They got on the subject of McCain and Obama… which you could tell he was annoyed but didn’t know much about Obama and she is going on and on and on about Obama this and that. I asked her to quiet down which she got pissy and called me a name. I said fine, but if you can tell me ONE thing Obama has done since he has been in the U.S. Senate, I and my BF will leave. She couldn’t come up with one thing and the guy she was having lunch with stopped talking to her all together and began to talk to my BF and I about the election.
Sometimes it isn’t how you can add to a conversation, but how you can react. I reacted on her premise of her “electable guy” and she stumbled. I.E. I won.
upinak on October 20, 2008 at 7:37 PM
YES.
Without a doubt Barack Hussein Obama is a muslim.
He has two muslim Dads, a white muslim mom(yes he’s lying when he said she is not a muslim..no atheist from the midwest marries two muslim men in the 70’s)…
His sister in an interview said ALL OF HIS FAMILY IS MUSLIM.
He went to a wahabbi muslim school in indonesia where he learned to recite the koran in perfect arabic.
He made a mysterious backpacking trip to POCK-istan during college ala John Walker Lindh/Adam Gadahn.
He had Khalid al-monsour on behalf of saudi prince al-waleed help him get onto the Harvard Law review and into Harvard and raised money for him many years before he ran for any political office.
His cousin is a dictator in kenya who signed a deal with the muslims in kenya to enforce sharia law in 80% Christian Kenya..and his supporters rioted when he lost.. killed 3,000 people/left over half a million homeless and burned churches with entire congregations to the ground until they finally named him co president.
But no don’t you dare say he’s a muslim…..yeah, hit him on ayers(the least of his known criminal/terrorist associates) and his socialist policies(as we nationalize the banking industry)…that’s the ticket!
SaintOlaf on October 20, 2008 at 7:39 PM
That doesn’t surprise me…
right2bright on October 20, 2008 at 7:40 PM
I would agree w/ the bumper sticker if it didn’t include the crescent as a C. The Russian symbol is pretty accurate though.
nickj116 on October 20, 2008 at 7:41 PM
Just because something is true does not give you the right to say, in these times.
The truth is the ultimate taboo.
TheSitRep on October 20, 2008 at 7:51 PM
A crypto-Marxist vapidly sympathetic to Islam’s imperial aims is more accurate.
profitsbeard on October 20, 2008 at 7:52 PM
Works for me.
progressoverpeace on October 20, 2008 at 7:55 PM
Well, it’s clear we have the Crazy McCain Rally Lady vote all sewn up here.
Good grief, people.
The Ugly American on October 20, 2008 at 7:57 PM
Powell lied saying that Obama has ALWAYS been a Christian. Obama attended Madrassa and was enrolled as a Muslim and as a Polynesian citizen as a youth. Obama’s self confession in “his” Dreams book notes that he “became a Christian” in his late 20s when he found Black Liberation Theology (aligned with Muslim doctrines) meeting Wright who also had been Muslim. At least Wright never tried to hide his own past.
OBAMA IS DISHONEST AS ARE HIS SUPPORTERS.
Obama the malleable is full of deceit.
Anguis in herba.
maverick muse on October 20, 2008 at 8:08 PM
I repeat the question that the young man in the video posed, “Are you deliberately trying to lose us this election?”
It’s clear that Obama is and never was a Muslim. He has no ties to Islamic extremist terrorists (notice I added the “Islamic” qualifier, as I do feel that his relationship with Ayers is a valid factor in this election). You can argue that Obama has been soft on Islamofascist terrorists during his time as a Senator, but you can’t argue he has ties to Islamofascist terrorists or is, himself, a Muslim. All it does is make you (and, in turn, all non-Obama supporters) look silly. Please, stop.
malan89 on October 20, 2008 at 8:10 PM
He can’t help himself, Malan. Olaf is quite mad and, despite our repeated efforts to confine him to the Rubber Room, he keeps escaping.
ManlyRash on October 20, 2008 at 8:15 PM
Islamic world leaders have endorsed Obama. Gadaffi is only ONE example–listen to his discourse on YouTube.
The sticker’s red star represents China as much as a portion of the Islamic crescent.
Macy’s Chinese Red Star logo, btw, blares “it’s all from China. Pay the asking price, but remember, it was all made with slave labor in China.” The ol’Miracle Macy’s with little Natalie Wood would have chosen a gold or silver star, not bloody red.
maverick muse on October 20, 2008 at 8:19 PM
So?
You’re voting for Barack Hussein Obama and I am voting for Mccain. I don’t care what you do.
But posting nonsense like Barack Hussein Obama was never a muslim (when it is a fact that he was a muslim by his own admission for at least some portion of his life) only makes you look silly and is a waste of your time.
SaintOlaf on October 20, 2008 at 8:20 PM
I’m not voting for Obama. That’s precisely the reason I want you to stop throwing around all this bull. There are plenty of reasons to oppose Obama. We don’t need to start baseless rumors.
————–
And I don’t consider the religion you were raised with to be “your religion”. He hasn’t been a Muslim during his adult life. And it makes us look silly to suggest otherwise.
malan89 on October 20, 2008 at 8:27 PM
Muslims around the world declare Obama a Muslim. It is how they see him. And if anyone were qualified to say who is a Muslim, it would take a Muslim to know a Muslim. That is between him and them. In America, Obama wants to play Christian though he ridicules the Beatitudes and doctrines of Jesus Christ.
It hardly matters what Obama claims because it shifts and mutates without him acknowledging his own evolution. That is what matters before entrusting him with a vote. Obama is untrustworthy. Obama is a liar.
maverick muse on October 20, 2008 at 8:28 PM
Well, Maybe not…. But I have a cousin who did just that TWICE in a row, in the 70’s, (and both of them stole the children she bore them and took them back to Iran).
That doesn’t make her a Muslim; it just proves she is stupid.
OK, Maybe New Mexico isn’t counted as midwest, but still, that kind of puts the lie to your claim.
LegendHasIt on October 20, 2008 at 8:28 PM
You tell him, Bugsy.
*speaks aside to the others* Humor him, please. He means well but he’s not…um…he’s not…right in the head.
ManlyRash on October 20, 2008 at 8:30 PM
Yeah I saw that movie too.
SaintOlaf on October 20, 2008 at 8:31 PM
You need to sew up the end of his tail as he uses the tip of it to pick the lock.
Murphy9 on October 20, 2008 at 8:31 PM
Not a movie 0laf, real life.
It was my dumbass cousin Teresa.
And I know a few other people who experienced the real thing in real life.
LegendHasIt on October 20, 2008 at 8:35 PM
It’s the religion one was raised with, which shapes most people’s personalities to a huge extent. HUGE. You don’t think that’s relevant?
progressoverpeace on October 20, 2008 at 8:35 PM
At least he was cordial and accepted defeat gracefully by walking away instead of acting like the unhinged lunatic left.
shick on October 20, 2008 at 3:41 PM
I agree that he should have answered the questions.
Come on Madison, you know how to read from the context. I just don’t think you were trying to with my post.
He started the argument but when he discovered he lost the argument he left gracefully. Contrast this lunatic-right guy from the lunatic-left guys and my point is clear.
I wish some that post here would be as cordial.
shick on October 20, 2008 at 8:35 PM
Yeah I’m mad..at least I don’t call myself manlyrash/genital herpes or whatever.
If naming yourself after a sexual transmitted disease is what floats your boat then I wouldn’t be calling anyone crazy if I was you.
SaintOlaf on October 20, 2008 at 8:36 PM
Yes, non-muslim women married muslim men in the States and didn’t convert. That was not unusual for those marriages. I don’t think the situation is quite the same in Indonesia, though – referring only to the Soetoro marriage.
progressoverpeace on October 20, 2008 at 8:38 PM
But you name yourself a SAINT, when clearly you are not. How crazy is that?
LegendHasIt on October 20, 2008 at 8:40 PM
Ah but I aspire to be.
Art least I don’t aspire to be a genital wart like rashboy..
SaintOlaf on October 20, 2008 at 8:41 PM
I was under the impression that they married in the US, and later went to Indonesia?? Plus, in the 70’s Indonesia wasn’t nearly as strict about religion as it became in the 90s and 00s.
And while she may or may not have converted to Islam when they got there, it really isn’t germane to my argument, nor do I really care.
I’m pretty sure that the only ‘deities’ 0Bama’s Mama ever REALLY believed in were the Triumvirate of Marx, Engels and Mao.
LegendHasIt on October 20, 2008 at 8:47 PM
Well, on that, I sincerely hope that you achieve your goal.
LegendHasIt on October 20, 2008 at 8:49 PM
Google “Egad What a Cad” and then read (you CAN read, yes?) the list of characters in this amusing little play.
Unlike you, Saint Oaf, I don’t take myself seriously nor is my mind, like yours, trapped in an undersexed gutter.
As for your aspirations to sainthood…..LMAO
ManlyRash on October 20, 2008 at 8:49 PM
Agreed. I was just bringing up that there were some different dynamics in Indonesia … that a conversion by the wife was more likely, there, even if the marriage was done outside. I have no real opinion about his mother, though, other than her love of communism, as you pointed out. I don’t think we’re allowed to talk about that either, though …
progressoverpeace on October 20, 2008 at 8:52 PM
Yeah, I figured. We have been running pretty much in parallel throughout this thread; I just wanted to make sure that I hadn’t been unclear.
LegendHasIt on October 20, 2008 at 8:55 PM
Off topic: Joe the plumber on Hannity & Colmes right now. Doing very well.
LegendHasIt on October 20, 2008 at 9:05 PM
Boy, Joe is very well-spoken. I have no doubt that he’s going to get a radio show.
progressoverpeace on October 20, 2008 at 9:16 PM
Muslims just believe what they want. If they believe what the Koran actually says then they are obligated to go out there and kill Christians. Yah, it really says that. They just don’t have the numbers, yet, to do that in the U.S. like they do in other parts of the world. Words have meaning folks and the Koran is very clear as to what Muslims are suppose to do with infidels.
Are all Muslims killers, no of course not. But all are instructed to kill by Mohammed.
Mojave Mark on October 20, 2008 at 9:23 PM
I want to repeat for the new guys:
The quoted poster actually, seriously believes that there is a homosexual plot to take over the United States, round up all straight people, and put them into FEMA camps to be exterminated.
Dead serious. Search for the recent Connecticut gay marriage post from a week or two ago. He actually poses this, and another poster named right4life argues the viability of it.
I like to call it the “Pink Helicopter” conspiracy.
This pathetic excuse for a human being is either a seriously demented and psychotic individual, or just here for kicks and likes seeing how people respond to his character that he has created.
Pity the thing. Pity it.
MadisonConservative on October 20, 2008 at 9:26 PM
Indeed.
First time I’ve seen more than a few seconds clip of him.
I was struck at how well he handled himself. Polite, well informed, great common sense, even made Colmes treat him with a bit of respect. He hs a commanding but pleasant television presence.
He did better than I would, even though I had a full year of doing a weekly live TV program a couple of decades ago.
If Joe doesn’t decide to run for Congress, he would undoubtedly do well on his own talk radio program…. Or even better, replace O’Reilly on FOX ;-)
LegendHasIt on October 20, 2008 at 9:29 PM
Or even better, How about the Michelle & Joe Show.
LegendHasIt on October 20, 2008 at 9:31 PM
Joe the Plumber is alot like Sarah the Governor..plain talk…”that’s just not right”…a real sense of propriety…it’s in their gut. I can’t help but recall Matthew 22:21: “Render unto Ceasar the things which are Ceasars’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.” Joe the Plumber said on Hannity radio this afternoon {sic} “Of course the liberal Democrats aren’t talking values this year…there’s no money it.”
gracie on October 20, 2008 at 9:31 PM
In all fairness, Madison, St. Oaf is quite mad and, as such, is more to be pitied than scorned.
Ridicule, however, is a different matter, so have at it.
ManlyRash on October 20, 2008 at 9:32 PM
I previously called him a “Huckabot”. But that was insulting to the rational, normal Huckabee supporters. I formally apologize to those people.
Hit the nail on the head.
malan89 on October 20, 2008 at 9:32 PM
I know, but it would be like ridiculing Mike Tyson once he’s old, feeble, and in a wheelchair. It’s satisfying to an extent, but you realize it’s not really worth it.
MadisonConservative on October 20, 2008 at 9:35 PM
I think this is the case here. When confronted they seemed to clam up and disappear. They seem like operatives to give the MSM red meat.
wepeople on October 20, 2008 at 9:41 PM
By the way, explain this logic to me:
Muslims who don’t follow the Koran, which says to kill non-believers, are not real Muslims.
But Christians who don’t follow the Old Testament, included in every King James and Revised Edition of the Bible, which makes up most of the copies in circulation, and also directs them to kill non-believers…are still Christians?
Guys, seriously. I tire of defending Christianity against religion-haters if you’re going to turn around and make such blatant hypocrisies central to your arguments.
MadisonConservative on October 20, 2008 at 9:44 PM
Not to mention, completely missing my point in the oh so necessary correctional attempt.
The tiny minority of jihadists you casually wave away as insignificant and unworthy of consideration, Esthier, translates at 10% to 1.2 billion people.
Compare that to the USA’s 300 million population and that just might be something we need take seriously.
These ‘cavemen’, as you call them, are often well-educated doctors and engineers. We underestimate them at our peril.
techno_barbarian on October 20, 2008 at 9:49 PM
The moderate Muslims I know say “You say the Bible is open to interpretation, correct? Well, so is the Koran.”
malan89 on October 20, 2008 at 9:50 PM
This video is on AOL’s front page.
rockmom on October 20, 2008 at 9:50 PM
True…but jolly good fun. Yes?
ManlyRash on October 20, 2008 at 9:52 PM
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