Final debate: game changer?

posted at 7:51 am on October 16, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

Last evening at the debate party at Trocadero, I heard one comment over and over again after the conclusion of the event: Who was that man on stage with Barack Obama and where has he been the last few weeks? Earlier, I had written that John McCain had to assert himself, attack Obama’s positions, and let it fly.  Last night he delivered, in a big way.

Unlike the first debate, McCain started strong and finally moved away (somewhat) from the idea that he could out-populist Obama.  He made clear that the financial collapse started with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but even more clearly and consistently attacked Obama’s economic policies as something just north of ridiculous.  In one example, he scored points on this by pointing out that Obama’s policies resembled that of another president – Herbert Hoover:

So I don’t — I don’t think there’s any doubt that Senator Obama wants to restrict trade and he wants to raise taxes. And the last president of the United States that tried that was Herbert Hoover, and we went from a deep recession into a depression.

That came as part of a discussion on free trade, in which Obama laughably described himself as a free-trader.  McCain noted his opposition to the Colombian free-trade agreement, and pointed out his inexperience and lack of judgment.  Obama, McCain said, couldn’t understand the issues involve because he never bothered to see them for himself, and pointed out that Colombia already sends its goods to the US for free.  The agreement lowers trade barriers of American goods:

But let me give you another example of a free trade agreement that Senator Obama opposes. Right now, because of previous agreements, some made by President Clinton, the goods and products that we send to Colombia, which is our largest agricultural importer of our products, is — there’s a billion dollars that we — our businesses have paid so far in order to get our goods in there.

Because of previous agreements, their goods and products come into our country for free. So Senator Obama, who has never traveled south of our border, opposes the Colombia Free Trade Agreement. The same country that’s helping us try to stop the flow of drugs into our country that’s killing young Americans. …

Free trade with Colombia is something that’s a no-brainer. But maybe you ought to travel down there and visit them and maybe you could understand it a lot better.

This will be remembered as the Joe Debate, I think.  Joe the Plumber got more attention last night than either of the running mates.  Obama had a lengthy conversation with Joe Wurzelbacher, a plumber from Toledo, in an Ohio rope-line that he probably regrets.  Obama told him that he wanted to raise Joe’s taxes in order to “spread the wealth”, a phrase that McCain repeated seven times during the debate.  Obama tried to claim that he told Joe he should have had a tax break earlier, but that didn’t address Obama’s redistributionism now — not for Joe, and certainly not for McCain, who marveled aloud how anyone could propose tax hikes and massive new spending in the beginning of a recession.

Obama did manage to briefly take back momentum during the health-care discussion.  He clearly felt more comfortable and sounded more informed on that topic, although he didn’t acknowledge that he essentially lied in his campaign ads about McCain’s plan.  McCain did better at the end of the topic, accidentally calling Obama “Senator Government” in a serendipitous rhetorical stumble.

Immediately afterwards, moderator Bob Schieffer did what none of the others did before him: he asked about abortion and judicial nominations.  McCain said he would not apply a litmus test and that his standards would be whether they could apply the law and had the competence to serve.  Obama said he would look for “fairness”, which is to say Obama wants people to legislate from the bench.  That’s when McCain hit Obama with the Illinois born-alive legislation, and Obama flat-out lied about his record, as he did with William Ayers.  I’ll address that in a separate post.

McCain kept Obama on the defensive, hit him with abortion, Fannie/Freddie (more of a glancing blow, really), Ayers, and on inexperience and his tax-and-spend philosophy all night long.  He clearly won, but was it enough?  Did he get the game-changer he needed?  I’d say that McCain missed a few opportunities last night, but overall did as well as anyone could have hoped.  With the race already starting to tighten, McCain gave independents and centrists some reasons to reconsider their choice.  We’ll know in a few days, but I think this gives McCain a boost heading into the final stretch.

Update: Jazz Shaw, who ran our chat room last night, thinks McCain won and did everything he could to pull out a victory.

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Who in the hell are these “undecided” voters?

Democrats who wanted Hillary.

Let’s roll.

ex-Democrat on October 16, 2008 at 9:46 AM

Obama:

Snake-oil salesman.
Snake charmer.
Snake in the grass.

Did he dispel those notions last night? No.

JiangxiDad on October 16, 2008 at 8:37 AM

Obama reminds me of that ShamWow guy on those TV commercials.

Check out the “cola” demonstration at about 0:35. He pours a huge amount of soda into a carpet square, delivers his classic line “You followin’ me, camera guy?” and proceeds to soak up liquid from an obviously different carpet square that only has a tiny amount of liquid in it.

That’s Barack ShamWow Obama’s economic plan in a nutshell (or shall I say ACORN). Say one thing, do another. (Bonus: ShamWow is “made in Germany and comes with a 10-year warranty!”)

Gilda on October 16, 2008 at 9:46 AM

Snap polls and focus groups after the debate are pointless. If those were the standards of victory, McCain could have won the debate by doing a few magic tricks and belting out a Streisand tune – that’s all the Luntz groups would have been talking about afterward. The responses to a snap poll are the essence of shallow feedback, because visual deportment and speaking style are all that matter, and these instant reactions almost always do nothing but confirm the current media narrative about the election.

Who wants to stand up in a focus group and point out the clean, articulate young man, who all the news superstars say is winning big, and point out that he lied to the American people in a major way, at least twice?

Everything depends on the aftermath of a debate. It was probably too much to expect McCain to nail Obama to the wall for lying about Ayers, but maybe that wouldn’t have been the smart play anyway – surely Schieffer would have intervened to save Obama’s bacon, and McCain would have come off looking like a bully, which the Bush-Gore debates taught us is a killer.

I think McCain can make some progress if he hits Obama hard on the socialism, Fannie/Freddie, and the Ayers lie, right away. In fact, Obama might have done fatal damage to himself with that answer about Ayers – I expected him to handle it more smoothly. It all depends on whether McCain follows up, and forces the media to keep talking about it. Nobody ever “wins” a total knockout in a moderated debate. It’s the follow-up that counts.

McCain hasn’t been very good at following up so far. I especially thought he missed an opportunity to hammer Biden after that bizarre, hallucinatory debate performance he gave. Mac’s people probably figured Palin did well enough and wanted to leave it at that, and Mac himself didn’t want to beat the cheese out of an esteemed Senate colleague, but it was a mistake to let Biden get away with that nonsense, especially because it fueled the “Obama is presidential enough” narrative.

Now is the time to create a new narrative. It’s not too late, and it’s started already. McCain’s people have always seemed to believe that no one really pays attention to the race until the last few weeks. I think their belief is somewhat exaggerated, but I do believe the story line can be written now, to a substantial degree, no matter what has come before. Let those infamous “moderates” and “undecideds” wake up to see a guy with a shady past, socialist politics, and a dangerously thin resume who lies to the American people during major debates.

I also thought McCain did a good job of severing the “McCain = Bush” meme last night. That was important. I think he gets to finish the race as his own man. I just hope it’s the man who knows how to tell a communist to go to hell. I know he’s still in there, somewhere.

Doctor Zero on October 16, 2008 at 9:49 AM

Biden throws “Joe the Plumber” under the bus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j66LUroXUck

Sammy316 on October 16, 2008 at 9:53 AM

I thought this was Mac’s best outing of the three, and Obama’s weakest. Mac showed Obi as a tax and spend guy. Joe the Plumber played effectively. He showed pretty clearly that Obi’s solution to everything is more government. I thought McCain won on the ‘who’s more negative’ debate, although he did sound a bit whiny when talking about hurt feelings.

Obama did do better than McCain on health care. Mac just is not a very effective advocate for his own plan, which is a shame because, substantively, it is a very interesting plan and one that shows him to be both a change guy and a maverick, where Obi is Mr. status quo. Mac needs a good commercial on his own health care plan, because this is the one issue I think he is consistently losing, when he should be winning.

I don’t worry too much about the focus groups. It is clear they react only to appearances, not to what is said. Obi looks younger, talks smoother, end of story there. As people think about what was said at the debate, assuming McCain effectively reinforces his message in the last two weeks, they could well decide they don’t want the ‘more government’ option. So I think Mac is still in the hunt.

james23 on October 16, 2008 at 9:57 AM

So I guess the answer is no? No one has any evidence that suggests the voter-registration fraud cases were part of some sort of conspiracy to enable illegal voting?

Tom_Shipley on October 16, 2008 at 9:59 AM

So I guess the answer is no? No one has any evidence that suggests the voter-registration fraud cases were part of some sort of conspiracy to enable illegal voting?

Tom_Shipley on October 16, 2008 at 9:59 AM

oh please, how hard is this? why do you think they’re doing that? so they can send in absentee ballots, and while some of them may get caught and thrown out, many will get through…we’ve had an example already at 2885 Brownlee Avenue in Columbus, Ohio.

right4life on October 16, 2008 at 10:01 AM

Here we go. The Supreme Court might need to get in this election too. I am fairly sure they’ll take the case.

johnnyU on October 16, 2008 at 10:03 AM

McCain needs to now pump the money into advertising like crazy! I have also noticed something else here in PA,,,, people are putting out their own homemade McCain/Palin signs!
I am starting to see a lot of McCain signs made with white paper and markers. Obviously,, they can’t get their signs,, but,, they aren’t waiting either. Looks kinda nice!

JellyToast on October 16, 2008 at 8:08 AM

JT, I live in the Philly burbs, purple counties that can go either way. Obama was out with his signs early, but I am seeing more and more McCain*Palin signs going up every day. If yard signs were votes, I’d say that McCain is ahead in my area and that he has the mo’. PA= 23 electoral votes, went for Kerry, Gore and Clinton in prior elections.

james23 on October 16, 2008 at 10:04 AM

oh please, how hard is this? why do you think they’re doing that? so they can send in absentee ballots, and while some of them may get caught and thrown out, many will get through…we’ve had an example already at 2885 Brownlee Avenue in Columbus, Ohio.

right4life on October 16, 2008 at 10:01 AM

Tom lives in a fantasy world where *somehow* a shaggy dog and some stoner kids will find a letter detailing the plan and get to pull off that smirky spoeksbastard’s mask and show HILLARY! undersneath and we’ll get a shrill “I would have gotten away with it had it not been for you damned kids!” routine….

Tom the fact that ACORN’s reason d’existence is to suborn the potential for fraud means it should be shut the **** down.

If a citizen needs to be cajoled to vote they probably shouldn’t be….and if they are room temperature or Walt Disney’s intellectual property I don’t trust their fluency on issues with regards to electing the future thanks.

sven10077 on October 16, 2008 at 10:06 AM

and from Rush:

CALLER: Well, I don’t think that it’s actually necessarily ACORN that does this. What it does is that by ACORN allowing there to be a greater number of raw voters, the people who actually run the polls can then vote the people at the end of the night. So what happens is that –

those nice ACORN poll workers can then stuff the ballot box…and who’s gonna know in a lot of these democRAT areas? thats why in MO for example, in 2006 during the senate race, for some reason the cities of KC and st. louis reported after the rural areas…waiting to see how many votes they needed to throw the race to mccaskill.

right4life on October 16, 2008 at 10:07 AM

So I guess the answer is no? No one has any evidence that suggests the voter-registration fraud cases were part of some sort of conspiracy to enable illegal voting? – Tom_Shipley on October 16, 2008 at 9:59 AM

At least not evidence that you find satisfying and conspiracies are, by definition, difficult things to prove. But then, the investigations have only just begun.

Fortunately, the fallout of bad publicity from these investigations is tainting the ACORN brand and I suspect that it will be thoroughly poisoned for a sufficient percentage of the voters by election day.

The momentum is already beginning to shift in McCain’s favor and Rezko hasn’t started squealing yet – perhaps in hope of a pardon from Obama.

When Obama loses on November 4, I fully expect Tony to sing louder and higher than the fat German chick in the last scene of Wagner’s Nibelungen.

ManlyRash on October 16, 2008 at 10:08 AM

Issues of body language

My impressions of Obama here were the same as in the second
debate: the body language, the head positioning, the superior grin, and the dismissive laughs – these are all characteristic of someone who thinks the fix is in, someone who feels total contempt for his opponent and isn’t all that sure why he has to be bothered with this person.

30 well chosen seconds of this and America will see him for what he is – rotten through and through.

Paul Murphy on October 16, 2008 at 10:14 AM

There are a few things that McCain could have said that he didn’t say, but overall this was definitely McCain’s best debate. McCain dominated the foreign-policy part of the first debate, but due to the financial problems at the time before the bailout was passed, voters didn’t care.

Joe the Plumber seems to be this year’s “gift that keeps on giving”, and McCain milked that YouTube clip beautifully–the “share the wealth” line will probably come back to haunt Obama. Obama seems to be fond of saying that he’ll “tax the rich”, but when his targets are Joe the Plumber who might hire other plumbers, McCain looks like the candidate who cares about the middle-class.

McCain scored well on ACORN, when he tied Obama’s $832K gift to ACORN to massive voter fraud, which probably would make the undecided voter think that “Obama’s trying to buy the election and cheat, McCain wants to win fairly”.

He missed a chance on the Ayers matter to tie Obama to the Annenberg Challenge, which was Obama’s only executive experience, which spent six years and $160 million for zero results. There was another opportunity for this at the last question involving education, but McCain did well by steering the conversation toward vouchers, which Obama opposed and McCain favored. This is one of those “under-the-radar” issues which could score big for McCain–lots of low-income inner-city parents complain about lousy public schools and WANT school vouchers–this may peel off some Hispanic and even black voters for McCain.

While there wasn’t much foreign-policy discussion in the debate, McCain worked it in nicely when discussing running mates, by criticizing Biden’s “cockamamie” plan to divide Iraq into three countries, while McCain’s “surge” strategy has led to a strong, united Iraq.

The discussion on free-trade was also a winner–McCain saying that Obama’s protectionism and high taxes in an economic downturn reminded him of Herbert Hoover–wasn’t John Kerry comparing Bush to Hoover four years ago? McCain also did well by bringing up Obama’s wanting to unilaterally renegotiate NAFTA, when we benefit from Canada’s relatively cheap oil under the current agreement. Bringing up Obama’s unwillingness to trade with Colombia, whose government has helped tremendously in fighting drugs and terrorism, while wanting to talk with Hugo Chavez, also scored points for McCain.

Obama made a blunder in the trade discussion which McCain didn’t pounce on. Obama said that he wants free trade so that “foreign countries’ imports will be cheaper here and our exports will be more expensive there”. Earth to Obama: we want free-trade agreements so our exports will be CHEAPER there, so that they will buy OUR products and not those of other exporters! McCain should run this Obama quote in ads, and hammer him over it!

All in all, McCain’s best debate. Maybe he’s been listening to SarahCuda, and got some fire in his belly!

Steve Z on October 16, 2008 at 10:20 AM

That’s Barack ShamWow Obama’s economic plan in a nutshell (or shall I say ACORN). Say one thing, do another. (Bonus: ShamWow is “made in Germany and comes with a 10-year warranty!”)

Gilda on October 16, 2008 at 9:46 AM

Good one, Gilda! The ShamWow brand name is a takeoff on the French pronunciation of chamois (shamWA, while most Americans say “shammy”).

Barack Obama is the Sham who Wows the crowds in Germany. Hopefully not in America.

Steve Z on October 16, 2008 at 10:26 AM

I keep seeing “Obama not rattled” in link lines. What?
There were several times that he was caught off guard, stumbled, and at least once where he was just plain stumped, unable to respond for several seconds.
That’s composed?

Count to 10 on October 16, 2008 at 10:29 AM

So I guess the answer is no? No one has any evidence that suggests the voter-registration fraud cases were part of some sort of conspiracy to enable illegal voting?

Tom_Shipley on October 16, 2008 at 9:59 AM

And I guess the sun won’t rise tomorrow either huh Tom. Nice retorical parsing of words. Can we suppose, (under your premise) that because there was “no evidence” that the terrorist between the planes communicated, there was no conspiracy? Does logic or reality even compute in your world?

I guess the answer is no?

Rovin on October 16, 2008 at 10:32 AM

Lot’s of good “why didn’t he…” questions for McCain. Fact is, we are more in the know here at HA than he is. Maybe we need to nominate a radio talk show host for president next time. They understand the issues.

Mojave Mark on October 16, 2008 at 9:40 AM

Palin/Hannity for 2012?

Steve Z on October 16, 2008 at 10:33 AM

I’m beginning to really beleive,that this has been
a grand strategy from the get go,”Class Warfare”!

And,I think the ‘plumber’ is a set up,watching Obama,
listening to McCain bring up the ‘plumber’,it just
seems,and watching Obama’s facial features,that Obama,
has planted this guy,ya I know it sounds moonbatty,
unless Joe the plummer is a registered Republican!

The Liberals were going to lose this election,and they
knew it!

So again,why is this economy in a crisis since the depression,as Obama has said!

And again this was manufactured and designed,less than
6 weeks before V-Day,watching Obama smirk his way through
this debate!!

canopfor on October 16, 2008 at 10:33 AM

At least Obama finally told us what a community organizer does…

Obama quote:
“Now with respect to ACORN, ACORN is a community organization. Apparently what they have done is they were paying people to go outand register folks.And apparently some of the people who were out there didn’t reallyregister people, they just filled out a bunch of names….”

Community organizers pay people to register to vote and fill out voter registration forms with false names…

JeffersonFan on October 16, 2008 at 10:38 AM

I know it sounds moonbatty,unless Joe the plummer is a registered Republican! – canopfor on October 16, 2008 at 10:33 AM

LOL….Check the headlines.

ManlyRash on October 16, 2008 at 10:38 AM

You realize an Obama win at this moment would be the worst thing that ever happened to the Democrats. He’d have a choice: raise taxes to pay for all the crap he’s promised and turn a recession into a depression, or simply NOT deliver on all the crap he promised and bitterly disappoint his followers.

S. Weasel on October 16, 2008 at 8:16 AM

Your missing the point here. We are maxed out on tax revenues, particularly on the high end. We might be able to squeeze out a little more by lowering the highest tax rate, and we could pick up some by taxing the pour and middle class, but Obama’s proposals will lower tax revenues. They will put us further in the hole, and that is before he heaps on the new spending.

Count to 10 on October 16, 2008 at 10:40 AM

If you don’t regularly read the Club for Growth blog, you should. This from the blog.

Andrew Roth

From the New Jersey Ledger:

On learning in late September that Bush had put up $700 billion to bail out Wall Street, [Venezuelan dictator Hugo] Chavez chortled: “Bush is turning socialist. How are you, Comrade Bush?”

It bears repeating, McCain lost the election when he signed on to Bush’s Bailout!

Angry Dumbo on October 16, 2008 at 10:47 AM

McCain was not a ‘closer’ tonight.

Several times when he had the opportunity to hit a few home runs, he went respectful and decided to bunt instead.

Although he brought up Ayers and ACORN he never followed through allowing Obama to tap dance around both subjects that would have made Fred Astaire proud.

On FOX, as usual, they had Frank Luntz and a group of ‘undecided’ voters pressing their magic buttons giving a real-time indication of how they felt about what was being said second-by-second.

To me this process is ludicrous because he’s polling people who, with just three weeks left till the election, still haven’t made a decision even after the election process has been going on for a year and a half, and who will finally make their decision not based on substance, but who looks, feels, and sounds good. That is, after all, the history of undecided voters.

It was not a good night for McCain because he didn’t do what he had to do.

As a result, I felt no ‘tingle’ up my leg tonight.

pocomoco on October 16, 2008 at 10:51 AM

John needs to be able to think on his feet a little better. During the part when they were discussing Ayers, Obama stated that Ayers was not one of his advisors. He then went on to name some of his advisors. One of these was Paul Volker, the man that was partly responsible for the sorry state of the economy when Carter was President. McCain should have been able to make a point about that, but completly missed the opportunity. Something along the lines of Obama running for Carter’s second term should have worked.

Buford on October 16, 2008 at 10:52 AM

He made clear that the financial collapse started with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but even more clearly and consistently attacked Obama’s economic policies as something just north of ridiculous.

I disagree. McCain jabbed at issues. He telegraphed his punches and threw 0.0 combination punches. I agree with Rod Dreher that McCain looked at all times to be irritated and off his game. He appeared to me to have a punch list of “must cover” topics and he was just checking boxes. In the work place we call this minimum competence. McCain tonight was better than the McCain of the first two debates. Yet his performance was minimally competent, he was raising issues and painting narratives he should have raised and painted 3 months ago. McCain has been dining out on his war hero status for over 30 years now, the bill has finally come due.

If nothing else, last night established the Republican Party needs new YOUNGER leadership.

Angry Dumbo on October 16, 2008 at 10:56 AM

Tom_Shipley on October 16, 2008 at 9:59 AM

the “answer” is that you’re a devious little Leftard who is so far up Obama’s ass you’d need a flashlight and ladder to climb out.

Voting studies consistently show that unless there is some sort of “Poland” gaffe a la Ford in 76, debates do not change minds. They reinforce voting decisions among some voters, but when asked ( after elections ) WHY they voted as they did, almost no one gives debates as the cause.

Janos Hunyadi on October 16, 2008 at 11:03 AM

My impressions of Obama here were the same as in the second debate: the body language, the head positioning, the superior grin, and the dismissive laughs – these are all characteristic of someone who thinks the fix is in, someone who feels total contempt for his opponent and isn’t all that sure why he has to be bothered with this person.

30 well chosen seconds of this and America will see him for what he is – rotten through and through.

Paul Murphy on October 16, 2008 at 10:14 AM

In other words, he showed himself as an arrogant a-hole.

newton on October 16, 2008 at 11:03 AM

I mean, when the guy registered the Dallas Cowboys roster to vote, it’s not because he thinks Jason Witten and Pacman Jones are going to show up and vote for Obama — or would actually be permitted to vote if they did or in fact actually BE REGISTERED (as opposed to being signed up to be registered — it’s because he’s trying to get out of actual work.

Tom_Shipley on October 16, 2008 at 9:26 AM

Tom: Two ways to vote fraudulently. Cast a vote in place of someone legitimately registered. Case a vote based on a fraudulent registration. What exactly is wrong with eliminating some of the possibility of fraudulent votes? You actually believe that no one trolls (sorry.. pun intended) the voter rolls for bogus registrations they just might happen to be aware of to then get votes cast under these fraudulent resitrations?

CC – BHO: “my Muslim faith”

CapedConservative on October 16, 2008 at 11:05 AM

LOL…Check the Headlines.

ManlyRash on Oct 16,2008 at 10:38PM.

ManlyRash: Now play nice,you did catch my ‘I know it sounds moonbatty’part eh!:):)

canopfor on October 16, 2008 at 11:07 AM

Voting studies consistently show that unless there is some sort of “Poland” gaffe a la Ford in 76, debates do not change minds. – Janos Hunyadi on October 16, 2008 at 11:03 AM

Wouldn’t it be ironic if Joe the Plumber has Polish heritage?

ManlyRash on October 16, 2008 at 11:10 AM

Obama is obviously weak when confronted by real issues–by Joe the Plumber or a real debater–so why didn’t McCain fight earlier?

Obama’s a groovy orator but he’s weak on substance. Attacking his positions has to be the theme of the remaining days of the campaign.

PattyJ on October 16, 2008 at 11:10 AM

Obama’s a groovy orator but he’s weak on substance. Attacking his positions has to be the theme of the remaining days of the campaign. – PattyJ on October 16, 2008 at 11:10 AM

And it will be. Obama will lose the election on November 4.

ManlyRash on October 16, 2008 at 11:13 AM

That’s Barack ShamWow Obama’s economic plan in a nutshell (or shall I say ACORN). Say one thing, do another. (Bonus: ShamWow is “made in Germany and comes with a 10-year warranty!”)

More than that…..he is Barack “Magic Wand” Obama.

He thinks that he can re-order the universe, economies, bring peace, negotiate deals, create jobs…

All because he is THE ONE.

Dpet on October 16, 2008 at 11:17 AM

Hey Troll Tom_Shipley, do you know that election fraud is a fifth-degree felony with a maximum sentence of a year in prison and a $2,500 fine?

You need more Axelrod grease for your squeaking wheels.

Kevin in Washington State on October 16, 2008 at 11:36 AM

Wouldn’t it be ironic if Joe the Plumber has Polish heritage?

ManlyRash on October 16, 2008 at 11:10 AM

ironic, not so much, but SWEET……yes indeed

The media can create a false reality, as with Ford being clumsy. He slipped or stumbled two times whiloe on camera, and a drug addict comedy writer and failed actor ( Chevy Chase ) ridicules him as clumsy–the news media ran with it

Ford was in fact an accomplished athlete all his life, including his 2 1/2 years as POTUS. They took two stumbles and used Chevy Chase’s comedy routines to replace reality

They created another mirage with Obama as somehow ‘experience’ with a ‘seasoned temperment’, etc

Janos Hunyadi on October 16, 2008 at 11:43 AM

i think Mac did ok but the coverage today has the O’s camp speaking of ability to lead in a crisis and refer to Macs “running all over the place” and “not remaining calm in the midst of the economic “crisis” and O’s calm demeanor and casual attitude. in the same segment a few references to “another 4 years of the same”.
my question
how did President Bush act in the terror crisis?

palefaced on October 16, 2008 at 11:50 AM

I think that McCain did something important last night with respect to independents–I think he really managed this time to plant seeds of doubt about Obama’s experience, sincerity, and goals. We still have a few weeks for such nascent doubts to grow. Also, I was visiting a PUMA site and was surprised to find PUMAs actively encouraged to deceive pollsters by declaring support for Obama, but to vote for someone else on election day, to lull the Democrats into a false sense of hope. (Boy, I just realized–doesn’t that last phrase just peg Obama…)

dufflepud on October 16, 2008 at 12:05 PM

Joe the Plumber is a gift for McCain

The real person has become an image that should be plumbed in last minute ads

This election has the largest number of undecided since – was it Dukakis? Such a number comes because the alternative candidate (Obama) makes the undecided uncomfortable.

For a lot of reasons starting with the fact he wants to throw away America and start over. Rev. Wright, Farrakhan, cheap flag symbols, no respect for Pledge of Allegiance, actually considering joining the military, and to this day a murky background.

Most undecideds do not haunt YouTube where they could be decided quickly watching Obama clips (America is no longer a Christian nation – sotto voce: if it ever was It is a Muslim nation. Cheers It is a Hindu Nation cheers – etc )

Meanwhile the MSM has made it clear people are a racist if Obama makes them uncomfortable

The public face of Obama supporters also makes it clear in the retaliations for not supporting Obama

The entire entertainment establishment has called them racist, and evil for not embracing Obama

Go kiss Aunt Helen (or else you naughty boy. The mustache is not scary. Shame on you. Don’t you love your aunt?)

Unecideds are being pummeled to do something they don’t like. They need to be rescued and given a clear alternative. They need to be told that McCain is the antidote to both Bush and obama

As one undecided said, Obama is smooth but we are electing a President

entagor on October 16, 2008 at 12:20 PM

I watched only the two closing statements, but it looked to me that Obama won that portion. McCain stammered and wandered. And his injuries cause him to be stiff and somewhat shaky. I kept wondering if he needed a walker.

But at least they kept it civil.

jim m on October 16, 2008 at 12:21 PM

I was very happy when McCain talked about Obama’s nearly billion dollar porkfest. BUT HE NEVER SAID “in 22 years my request for port is $0!” THAT IS THE FINISHER. Otherwise people (who don’t watch Fox) just assume McCain’s pork is LESS than Obama’s. The impact is in the comparison.
Obama, 3 yrs almost $1 Billion
McCain 22 yrs $0

NightmareOnKStreet on October 16, 2008 at 12:22 PM

This is funny take on CNN/CBS and Times, Push Polls, make sure you read the comment, they make fun of how Frank Luntz of Fox News and how he picks his Poll Groups.

http://thepeoplescube.com/blog.php

Dr Evil on October 16, 2008 at 12:22 PM

I also agree with Rove’s comments last night. If the eoonomy is important Obama gave them an opening you could drive a truck through

This is the biggest discomfort spot

entagor on October 16, 2008 at 12:24 PM

“Joe Wurzelbacher doesn’t immediately turn up in the Ohio voter registration database, leading to some speculation last night that he’s not registered to vote.

But the Toledo Blade reports that he appears to be a registered Republican, and a primary voter at that:

Linda Howe, executive director of the Lucas County Board of Elections, said a Samuel Joseph Worzelbacher, whose address and age match Joe the Plumber’s, registered in Lucas County on Sept. 10, 1992. He voted in his first primary on March 4, 2008, registering as a Republican.

Ms. Howe said that the name may be misspelled in the database.

(This is, incidentally, the reason people worry about purging the voter rolls. They’re such a mess to begin with.)”

Hey, looks like Joe the Plumber may not be able to vote if the Ohio Secretary of State purges the voting rolls. They may have misspelled his name.

jim m on October 16, 2008 at 12:26 PM

I’d bet that Joe the plumber is going to be McCain’s October surprise-however inadvertant. Judging from the anecdotal evidence I’ve encountered, Joe resonates across party lines, and the favorability is tilted toward McCain.

irongrampa on October 16, 2008 at 12:28 PM

Some pundits were saying that a game changer is usually something done by a candidate that works against him. Obama’s conversation with Joe the Plumber in which he admitted he is in favor of wealth distribution is exactly that kind of thing.

backwoods conservative on October 16, 2008 at 12:50 PM

People who go on at great length about “McCain should have…” from the comfort of their homes forget one thing:

McCain did not control the debate

! Bob Schieffer did, and he regularly changed debate directions when Osama Obama was getting unhappy.

Add to that the preplanned “Obama wins” commentaries from the suck-up MSM (look at WaPoo’s roster of deluded fools today for a prime example) and you have an inevitable “McCain loses” message going out.

At this point, if Obama whipped out his johnson on live TV, it would only get him more votes. Dowd, Noonan, MacDonald and Powers (not to mention Sullivan and Matthews) would swoon….

MrScribbler on October 16, 2008 at 12:56 PM

We’ll know in a few days, but I think this gives McCain a boost heading into the final stretch.

Good analysis, Ed, but I disagree with you about this last bit. We will not “know in a few days.” The post-debate analysis will influence the polls… even the ones that are not completely rigged to boost Obama.

We may know on November 5th.

What matters is that McCain did what he could to showcase how his administration would differ from Obama’s. McCain supporters (or anti-Obama voters) need to try to build off of McCain’s performance by emphasizing these things when they talk with their undecided or “leaner” friends.

Y-not on October 16, 2008 at 1:05 PM

Who in the hell are these “undecided” voters?

Democrats who wanted Hillary.

Let’s roll.

ex-Democrat on October 16, 2008 at 9:46 AM

Hell yes. Anybody who can’t make up their mind at this point is living in a cave. You either want to be taxed & have redistribution of your wealth, nanny govt, etc, OR you want to be left alone, get to keep your OWN money & make your OWN decisions about what health care,deductibles, etc you want.
And the supreme court nomination question hits it home. FAIRNESS? You either want legislation from the bench, or you want judges to up hold the LAW as it pertains to the CONSTITUTION.
McCain doesn’t have everything I want in a candidate, but I believe he’s an honest & good man. And I believe he’s telling the truth. Plus we get Sarah!
A no-brainer to me!

Badger40 on October 16, 2008 at 1:09 PM

There was nothing McCain could do to “change” any game. The fact is, McCain looks old and cranky and his brave military service wounds count for NOTHING to most idiot viewers these days. That is why he will always lose any debate with Obama who has never done anything harder than cram for a test.

Speedwagon82 on October 16, 2008 at 1:15 PM

Obama:

Snake-oil salesman.
Snake charmer.
Snake in the grass.

Did he dispel those notions last night? No.

JiangxiDad on October 16, 2008 at 8:37 AM

As Tom Anderson said in 1878,

“The best way to see a snake in the grass is to cut the grass.”

It’s about time McCain got out the lawn mower and did some serious cutting. He’s only got a few weeks left to expose Obama for what he truly is.

jedijson on October 16, 2008 at 1:17 PM

There were several times that he was caught off guard, stumbled, and at least once where he was just plain stumped, unable to respond for several seconds.
That’s composed?

Count to 10 on October 16, 2008 at 10:29 AM

Yes, McCain put him on the ropes several times, specially with abortion, Ayers, ACORN and school vouchers. But the problem is that once he had him on the ropes he did not finish him off, he let Obama slither off with some lame comeback and moved on to another subject. If McCain had kept retorting on these issues he would really have left Obama stumbling badly.

neuquenguy on October 16, 2008 at 1:19 PM

I disagree. McCain jabbed at issues. He telegraphed his punches and threw 0.0 combination punches. I agree with Rod Dreher that McCain looked at all times to be irritated and off his game. He appeared to me to have a punch list of “must cover” topics and he was just checking boxes. In the work place we call this minimum competence. McCain tonight was better than the McCain of the first two debates. Yet his performance was minimally competent, he was raising issues and painting narratives he should have raised and painted 3 months ago. McCain has been dining out on his war hero status for over 30 years now, the bill has finally come due.

If nothing else, last night established the Republican Party needs new YOUNGER leadership.

Angry Dumbo on October 16, 2008 at 10:56 AM

Well I guess I don’t see it that way. I am not impressed by how well a person can ‘perform’ during a debate. I like to hear what they say. I look for substance, not a ‘performance’. We are not talent scouting here.
It would be great to have all in one package:the smooth speaker, confident in appearance at all times, knowledgeable, knowledgeable at the drop of a hat, surrounds themselves with principled, hardworking, & those with upright character, etc…
McCain is not my 1st choice, but he does tell the truth. He is a principled man who sticks by his guns & will fight for what he knows is right, even if it’s unpopular. I respect that about him.
So the ‘performance’ is all showmanship. I could tell he was angry and anxious last night, but I read it as “I’m frustrated with the lies & misrepresentations about me & what he says he has said”. I would have felt the same tension.
I could also care less if McCain needs a walker or not. It’s his wisdom & experience we need, not his legs or arms.

Badger40 on October 16, 2008 at 1:22 PM

Every time Obama repeated his “tax cuts for 95% of the middle class” I was hopping McCain would ask him for some examples. How much is he going to reduce each bracket? what’s the amount or percentage cut that a household making 100K can expect? What if you make 30K? There is no way Obambi could answer any of these questions.

neuquenguy on October 16, 2008 at 1:22 PM

I don’t know what these pundits were watching, even the FOX ones. McCain clearly one. Yes he could’ve hit harder, but he’s got limited time and a neutral/hostile moderator.

On a side note Schieffer was MUCH better than the other moderators. He made the debate about the candidates, not himself.

I think McCain closed the gap. He got back to basics. He needs to start hitting the Dems over Fannie Mae and ACORN and he really can pull it off. And if he does it right, he can take Congress back too. Let’s not forget they’ve got a 10% approval rating. On what planet do they get a bigger majority? He doesn’t have to stay on Ayers, let Sarahcuda handle that. He needs to stay on the economy and national security.

Joe the Plumber is the real game changer.

Iblis on October 16, 2008 at 1:22 PM

At 1:17, I tried to post multiple links to those great new commercials by NeverFindOut/LET FREEDOM RING and it didn’t take my post. I tried reposting it and got “Duplicate post. Looks like you already posted that.” WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot??

NightmareOnKStreet on October 16, 2008 at 1:22 PM

Well, I posted the links to the commercials on the other thread “Big Lies…” & had no problem; this one still won’t take it. (I did change a word so it wouldn’t be flagged as a duplicate)

NightmareOnKStreet on October 16, 2008 at 1:30 PM

Was anybody else thinking that the look of shock on McCain’s face when Obama denied that he ever agreed to public financing mattered? (I saw it on split screen)

To me it illustrated the smoothness and skill of Obama’s lying and how foreign that is to McCain.

heypally on October 16, 2008 at 1:55 PM

judicial nominations: …Obama said he would look for “fairness”…

That is what I don’t understand. What is the “fairness” litmus test?

According to whose standards?

Sir Napsalot on October 16, 2008 at 2:24 PM

judicial nominations: …Obama said he would look for “fairness”…

That is what I don’t understand. What is the “fairness” litmus test?

According to whose standards?

Sir Napsalot on October 16, 2008 at 2:24 PM

For Conservatives, Fairness=Justice.
For the left, Fairness=Egalitarianism.

neuquenguy on October 16, 2008 at 2:41 PM

Biggest disappointment is that neither one acknowledged John Wooden’s 98th birthday the day before.
The greatest coach in athletic history, and one of the greatest “public” men in American history.
And along those lines, you noticed that each of the debates, McCain took some time out to acknowledge someone close to him in pain. I don’t think that is a ploy, but a sincere respect for someone that he cares about.

right2bright on October 16, 2008 at 3:56 PM

Badger40 on October 16, 2008 at 1:22 PM

We agree that McCain is the better candidate, I would disagree that McCain can point to his service record alone and get elected. Although I most definitely did not support him in the primaries (Rudy and/or Romney were preferable candidates), I have come to accept McCain as the best of the alternatives. The candidate is not the problem here. With apologies to Don Rumsfeld, you have to go into the general election with the candidate you have, not the candidate you would prefer.

The McCain campaign has been rudderless and defensive since the primaries.

- McCain’s life experience shoud be an asset, but has been effectively turned because McCain doesn’t like to talk about his service. Since when? McCain’s service was front and center in the primaries.

- Hillary’s protracted primary battle with Obama was a gift that the McCain camp squandered. He could have been hammering Obama’s inexperience and youthful naivete along with Hillary back in June.

- Refusing to touch Rev. Wright this Spring effectively precluded McCain from bringing up Ayers, Rezko, Odinga, and Soros. Buying into the Obama narrative that to challenge Rev. Wright’s liberation theology was racist, it follows that discussions of avowed Marxists and domestic terrorists was likewise coded racism.

- McCain’s style of Senatorial civility was not shared by Obama when he ran ads insinuating that McCain was too old to operate a computer.

The McCain camp’s reluctance to go on the offensive calls into doubt not only their will to win but their competence as potential party leaders.

Angry Dumbo on October 16, 2008 at 4:17 PM

Angry Dumbo on October 16, 2008 at 4:17 PM

Spare yourself the keystrokes and us the agita of having to read your whiny bilge. McCain is going to win. Period. Get used to it.

ManlyRash on October 16, 2008 at 4:28 PM

For Conservatives, Fairness=Justice.
For the left, Fairness=Egalitarianism.

Fairness= Some pigs are more equal than others…

neuquenguy on October 16, 2008 at 2:41 PM

fixed it for ya!

right4life on October 16, 2008 at 4:40 PM

ManlyRash on October 16, 2008 at 4:28 PM

Pardon me, if I don’t take your word for it.

btw. How many mccain points do you get for your quality insights?

Angry Dumbo on October 16, 2008 at 4:45 PM

I was proud of John McCain last night, win or lose.

Terrye on October 16, 2008 at 4:45 PM

He defintely wore his angry face. I think he did right. He had Obama stuttering and stumbling. Time will tell.

johnnyU on October 16, 2008 at 5:01 PM

JOEMENTUM 2.0!!!

Texas Rainmaker on October 16, 2008 at 5:23 PM

Is it just me or did John McCain look like a cross between the late James Kilpatrick and Henry James??

sanguine4 on October 16, 2008 at 8:12 PM

MCCAIN KICKED ASS AND TOOK NAMES.

Obama lost as bad as the Dodgers.

profitsbeard on October 17, 2008 at 12:09 AM

McCain needs an ad that replays Obamas “spread the wealth” answer to Joe the Plumber and then refers to him as Senator Government. Every ad he does from here to the end needs to call Obama Sentor Government. It was one of the two best lines of the debate along with McCain’s answer that he is not George Bush.

McCain can still win this thing. Joe the Plumber gave him a gift that is priceless and he needs to drive it home.

Fannie and Freddie love Senator Government.

Senator Government will raise your taxes

Senator Government wants to take over your health care

Senator Government wants to redistribute wealth.

Senator Government wants to increase spending even with a huge defecit

Just keep hammering on Senator Government until every time somebody sees and Obama picture that is what comes into their heads.

Hawthorne on October 17, 2008 at 5:19 AM

The Video that could cost Obama the election:

http://www.nextgenerationcorp.com/NextGenBlog/?p=68

Poll finds American reject redistribution of wealth as suggested by Barack Hussein Obama.

PRINCETON, NJ — When given a choice about how government should address the numerous economic difficulties facing today’s consumer, Americans overwhelmingly — by 84% to 13% — prefer that the government focus on improving overall economic conditions and the jobs situation in the United States as opposed to taking steps to distribute wealth more evenly among Americans.

Read: http://www.gallup.com/poll/108445/Americans-Oppose-Income-Redistribution-Fix-Economy.aspx

Americans Oppose Income Redistribution to Fix Economy

[Note: Elect John McCain for a free America and economic growth.]

AdrianS on October 17, 2008 at 2:02 PM

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