Final debate: game changer?
posted at 7:51 am on October 16, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
Last evening at the debate party at Trocadero, I heard one comment over and over again after the conclusion of the event: Who was that man on stage with Barack Obama and where has he been the last few weeks? Earlier, I had written that John McCain had to assert himself, attack Obama’s positions, and let it fly. Last night he delivered, in a big way.
Unlike the first debate, McCain started strong and finally moved away (somewhat) from the idea that he could out-populist Obama. He made clear that the financial collapse started with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but even more clearly and consistently attacked Obama’s economic policies as something just north of ridiculous. In one example, he scored points on this by pointing out that Obama’s policies resembled that of another president – Herbert Hoover:
So I don’t — I don’t think there’s any doubt that Senator Obama wants to restrict trade and he wants to raise taxes. And the last president of the United States that tried that was Herbert Hoover, and we went from a deep recession into a depression.
That came as part of a discussion on free trade, in which Obama laughably described himself as a free-trader. McCain noted his opposition to the Colombian free-trade agreement, and pointed out his inexperience and lack of judgment. Obama, McCain said, couldn’t understand the issues involve because he never bothered to see them for himself, and pointed out that Colombia already sends its goods to the US for free. The agreement lowers trade barriers of American goods:
But let me give you another example of a free trade agreement that Senator Obama opposes. Right now, because of previous agreements, some made by President Clinton, the goods and products that we send to Colombia, which is our largest agricultural importer of our products, is — there’s a billion dollars that we — our businesses have paid so far in order to get our goods in there.
Because of previous agreements, their goods and products come into our country for free. So Senator Obama, who has never traveled south of our border, opposes the Colombia Free Trade Agreement. The same country that’s helping us try to stop the flow of drugs into our country that’s killing young Americans. …
Free trade with Colombia is something that’s a no-brainer. But maybe you ought to travel down there and visit them and maybe you could understand it a lot better.
This will be remembered as the Joe Debate, I think. Joe the Plumber got more attention last night than either of the running mates. Obama had a lengthy conversation with Joe Wurzelbacher, a plumber from Toledo, in an Ohio rope-line that he probably regrets. Obama told him that he wanted to raise Joe’s taxes in order to “spread the wealth”, a phrase that McCain repeated seven times during the debate. Obama tried to claim that he told Joe he should have had a tax break earlier, but that didn’t address Obama’s redistributionism now — not for Joe, and certainly not for McCain, who marveled aloud how anyone could propose tax hikes and massive new spending in the beginning of a recession.
Obama did manage to briefly take back momentum during the health-care discussion. He clearly felt more comfortable and sounded more informed on that topic, although he didn’t acknowledge that he essentially lied in his campaign ads about McCain’s plan. McCain did better at the end of the topic, accidentally calling Obama “Senator Government” in a serendipitous rhetorical stumble.
Immediately afterwards, moderator Bob Schieffer did what none of the others did before him: he asked about abortion and judicial nominations. McCain said he would not apply a litmus test and that his standards would be whether they could apply the law and had the competence to serve. Obama said he would look for “fairness”, which is to say Obama wants people to legislate from the bench. That’s when McCain hit Obama with the Illinois born-alive legislation, and Obama flat-out lied about his record, as he did with William Ayers. I’ll address that in a separate post.
McCain kept Obama on the defensive, hit him with abortion, Fannie/Freddie (more of a glancing blow, really), Ayers, and on inexperience and his tax-and-spend philosophy all night long. He clearly won, but was it enough? Did he get the game-changer he needed? I’d say that McCain missed a few opportunities last night, but overall did as well as anyone could have hoped. With the race already starting to tighten, McCain gave independents and centrists some reasons to reconsider their choice. We’ll know in a few days, but I think this gives McCain a boost heading into the final stretch.
Update: Jazz Shaw, who ran our chat room last night, thinks McCain won and did everything he could to pull out a victory.










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The problem with McCain last night was not that he didn’t take it to Obama, but that he did it in the kinds of soundbytes that people who know about all these issues will understand, but the undecided voters who are not following this as closely as some of us might not understand.
tommuck on October 16, 2008 at 7:56 AM
He still has a shot Ed. No doubt.
He needs to continue to use Palin correctly and channel his “inner Hillary” and be a fighter.
It can happen.
Have you ever been more anxious about an election?
joepub on October 16, 2008 at 7:58 AM
Get used to seeing JAMES BROWN IN A DRESS as our new First Lady!
McCain did well but he needed better.
pherrman on October 16, 2008 at 7:58 AM
IMO this was McCain’s best effort yet. However, all Obama had to do to win was show up! Game, set, match. Too bad!
GFW on October 16, 2008 at 7:58 AM
Where I work all I could hear was how they were going to vote for Barry……All they want is the wealth transfer from the “rich”. When I told them that they may as well kiss there jobs away if it does happen as the “rich” will adjust their budget and cut jobs….Their jobs!!! Some people should not vote because of their ignorance.
grapeknutz on October 16, 2008 at 7:59 AM
Morning Ed,
I have a serious question for you and the regulars that borders on sounding metaphysical….
“If an Obama lies in the forest but the press refuses to report on the distortions of his record is there a sound made in the electorate?”
I’ll follow up.
sven10077 on October 16, 2008 at 8:00 AM
Yep he flat out lied about his abortion record/votes. I hope the McCain campaign and 537s have some hard hitting ads about that.
aikidoka on October 16, 2008 at 8:01 AM
Senator Government vs. Joe the Plumber. I like this theme.
lodge on October 16, 2008 at 8:01 AM
The ball is in Joe the Plumber’s court. He could massively make a difference in the numbers, and if he is effective the MSM will downplay his importance. They’re probably in search of Joe’s old girlfriends right now.
Marcus on October 16, 2008 at 8:02 AM
How about ad about massive government and bureaucrats. You could have suits marching around in everyone’s business and keep replaying the “spread the wealth” comment and flash in images of Karl Marx. Then the huge Capitol Dome expanding to consume the country.
lodge on October 16, 2008 at 8:03 AM
I just think back to why the founders included the first amendment and the lessons I learned on the matter in civics and look at the media playing defacto kingmaker through lies of omission of analysis as well as commission and I shudder at the thought of Crichton’s Legal-Acadmeic-Media axis writ large.
sven10077 on October 16, 2008 at 8:03 AM
Excellent summation. I expect the resident Eeyores will wail in despair and rend their garments when the polls don’t reflect a bump from this debate.
ManlyRash on October 16, 2008 at 8:03 AM
Joe is maintaining his objectivity and delivering fair and balanced punches. The best thing is, he’s immune to criticism.
couric interview
lodge on October 16, 2008 at 8:04 AM
If Mac hammers Barry as “SENATOR GOVERNMENT” and whips him with Joe the Plumber, this is a game changer!
WIN!
profitsbeard on October 16, 2008 at 8:04 AM
Sensing a Republican landslide!
One other point on Obama,, the guy never looks good when he is looking directly into the camera. Anyone else notice this? He looks uncomfortable and almost close to going cross eyed or something.
JellyToast on October 16, 2008 at 8:05 AM
Three weeks of Joe the Plumber, Acorn and Bill Ayers.
Videos with graphics showing how it’s all connected.
The other theme McCain should pursue is ‘What’s Obama got to hide’ referencing his attempts to block ads and intimidate radio stations.
And can we please call him on the lies?
EnglishMike on October 16, 2008 at 8:05 AM
Opportunities that were central to Obama’s faults, and crucial to explain to voters.
Why? What are you saying about McCain? I hoped for better answers.
Obama didn’t “win” because he had better things to say. He “won” because he did what he had to. Get past a public attack by the opposition candidate on Ayers, Wright, Acorn, Odinga, etc. to simply be able to run out the clock.
McCain doesn’t deliver knockout blows. Pray enough Americans can see through Obama’s facade themselves to deliver the knockout blow in November.
JiangxiDad on October 16, 2008 at 8:07 AM
That’s because he’s usually lying at the time.
EnglishMike on October 16, 2008 at 8:08 AM
McCain needs to now pump the money into advertising like crazy! I have also noticed something else here in PA,,,, people are putting out their own homemade McCain/Palin signs!
I am starting to see a lot of McCain signs made with white paper and markers. Obviously,, they can’t get their signs,, but,, they aren’t waiting either. Looks kinda nice!
JellyToast on October 16, 2008 at 8:08 AM
I didn’t watch any of the debate after-talk but I read the Fox News panel was a big McCain funeral gathering. The same folks (led by Bill Kristol) were also a big Bush funeral gathering on election day 2004 about an hour or two before the voting stopped.
Marcus on October 16, 2008 at 8:09 AM
Me too, lodge. Funny how a single serendipitous slip of a word can capture the essence of what went on last nite.
And for all of you asking for more from John McCain, he has given us all he’s got. Let’s rock…..
gracie on October 16, 2008 at 8:10 AM
I think McCain is still in the fight and he made some significant points with the voters, regardless of what Barnes, Kristol and Krauthammer say. Those three wimps gave up weeks ago and are now in the terminal stages of pouting. They are the kind of jackasses you don’t want with you in a street fight . . . you’d be taking all the blows and they’d be cutting a dust trail down the road. Fox once was a breath of fresh air but they’ve turned into a bad case of halitosis.
rplat on October 16, 2008 at 8:13 AM
He certainly change course last night.
Obama’s arrogance (laughing at voter fraud) will also change the direction.
Obama was painted (rightfully) as a SOCIALIST !!!
stenwin77 on October 16, 2008 at 8:13 AM
Did anyone notice that Obama flat out lied last night, when McCain accused him of voting against the born alive act in Illinois? The Messiah said it was not true, but then went on to give the reasons that he voted against it? This was glaring!!!!!!
bloggless on October 16, 2008 at 8:13 AM
Joe the plumber gets ONE vote, the acorn voter gets as many has he can register. Wake up America!!!!!!!!!! That ain’t right.
bloggless on October 16, 2008 at 8:14 AM
It appears Senator Obama wants to change the last line of the Declaration of Independence by three little “y”s…
From:
“our lives, our fortunes, our sacred honor”
To:
“your lives, your fortunes, your sacred honor”
CC – BHO: “my Muslim faith”
CapedConservative on October 16, 2008 at 8:14 AM
Great analysis Ed,
Edit this: “That’s when McCain hit Obama with the Illinois born-alove legislation”
“
IfWhen an Obama lies in the forest but the press refuses to report on the distortions of his record is there a sound made in the electorate?”Modified!
Rovin on October 16, 2008 at 8:15 AM
this debate wans’t enough. people weren’t watching. it was up against the playoffs.
look, McCain can’t convince me he can be a leader if he’s done everything he could to cap the knees of the 527s supporting him. and now because he’s done that, not only will he not win, to attempt to catch the momentum he would have had this summer will look like desperation.
bloghooligan on October 16, 2008 at 8:15 AM
This is a problem conservatives always face. Leftists understand the difficulty of communicating nuance to the public, and choose their sound bites in such a way that it takes more words and ideas to refute them than one can
fit into a sound bite. This is why, for example, “Tax cuts for the rich!” works so well — you have to explain progressive taxes and remind people that envy is actually wrong in order to rebut it, and they’ve used just four words and touched a sin that’s latent in nearly all of us.
philwynk on October 16, 2008 at 8:16 AM
You realize an Obama win at this moment would be the worst thing that ever happened to the Democrats. He’d have a choice: raise taxes to pay for all the crap he’s promised and turn a recession into a depression, or simply NOT deliver on all the crap he promised and bitterly disappoint his followers.
McCain can still pull it out, and I sincerely hope he does — a recession rather than a depression for me, thanks! — but politics is a long game.
S. Weasel on October 16, 2008 at 8:16 AM
last night Mack played FOR THE WIN. And win he did. This wasn’t like the other two debates in which he was mild mannered. He stared Obama down and flustered the hell out of him. Absolutely loved how often he hit him.
theguardianii on October 16, 2008 at 8:17 AM
Can anyone tell me why McCain will not contradict Obama’s claim that he will cut taxes for 95% of working families.
McCain was a little better last night, but why does he leave that false claim hanging out there time after time?
forest on October 16, 2008 at 8:18 AM
I would really hammer Barry on that reaction to the ACORN charge in a commercial.
People don’t like being played for fools by their potential president.
jjshaka on October 16, 2008 at 8:18 AM
Oh you are so right. I saw Brit’s face last night and it reminded me of the same thing in 2004. I couldn’t watch any post debate discussions last night and was hoping to find a little cheer here this morning.
Brat on October 16, 2008 at 8:19 AM
The problem with McCain last night was not that he didn’t take it to Obama, but that he did it in the kinds of soundbytes that people who know about all these issues will understand, but the undecided voters who are not following this as closely as some of us might not understand.
tommuck on October 16, 2008 at 7:56 AM
rplat on October 16, 2008 at 8:20 AM
View from the left:
I agree that McCain started strong. The best part of the debate for him was the first 20 minutes. He hit Obama on Joe the Plumber and and a couple other issues. But from then on, I think it was downhill for McCain.
An earlier poster commented that McCain did hit Obama hard, but in a soundbite kind of way. I agree. He made general accusations and Obama gave specific answers. And they came off as mean-spirited with McCain’s jerky and anger-tinged tone.
Obama played it cool and gave a great performance. He’s a natural at talking about issues in this kind of sit-down format. McCain tried to combat this with “complimenting” Obama’s eloquence and saying you really had to listen to his words, implying that yes, Obama can talk, but he’s BSing you and me. but I don’t think that worked because Obama WAS articulate — he was much more specific and clear than McCain. McCain came off more as the guy BSing than Obama did.
As the night went on, McCain came off as more and more angry. He could barely hide his contempt for Obama, and that will hurt him I think because Obama didn’t come off as a man worthy of contempt.
McCain may have kept Obama on the defensive, but Obama didn’t look like he was on the defensive. He handled all the accusations well and kept an even temperament. The same can’t be said of McCain.
And McCain made the only big “gaffe” of any of the three debates and he made quote marks around “health of the mother” during the abortion discussion. That was bad.
All in all, I think Obama won by doing what he did in the first two debate — he stayed calm and gave insightful, well-mannered answers while avoided “getting into it” with McCain.
I think the first 20 minutes of the debate were McCain’s best of the three, but I think Obama ultimately won the debate. I haven’t seen the polls, but I’d be surprised if Obama didn’t come out ahead again.
Tom_Shipley on October 16, 2008 at 8:22 AM
I didn’t watch any of it (GO PHILLIES!!!!!!!!!!) but the Inquirer’s coverage today sure is subdued, so I figured McCain must have won. The only highlight I saw was when McCain hit Obama on the t-shirts (serendipitously, there is a letter in the Inquirer today about them from a person who attended the event with Gov. Palin here).
Glad to see McCain hit Obama on Joe the Plumber. I thought that could be a game changer when I saw the video. He should be “McCain’s new running mate.” It really is not too late to do this.
I also saw a new McCain ad late last night that was great. It hits “Congressional liberals” who want to raise taxes and spending, and finishes with “Who will stop them? HIM.” Pretty good ad – it sure made me sit up and notice, and there are craploads of political ads running here now.
rockmom on October 16, 2008 at 8:23 AM
JellyToast, I think because of McCain’s limited funds, (compared to Senator Government), the crutial part will be putting money in the “get out and vote” machine that Rove perfected. Republican turnout will be critical.
Rovin on October 16, 2008 at 8:23 AM
McCain did a good job. I think he definitely got up off the mat last night. I can think of a couple of things he should have done and certainly ought still to do over the next few days:
(1) Remind everyone that the work Ayers and Obama did in Chicago was on the subject of education. These two men spent a little under a sixth of a billion dollars in one school system and according to the official CAC evaluation report didn’t accomplish a G*******d thing. Why not? Because Ayers’ educational models were ideological rather than practical. They rejected funding for math and science education in favor of peace studies, etc. That’s pretty damning.
(2) Remind everyone that Obama wants to raise capital gains taxes. This means that when the stock market rebounds, tens of billions more in realized capital gains will go to the government rather than individual investors.
(3) Point out that Obama’s “95 percent” claim doesn’t pass the analysis of the Tax Policy Center, which he’s citing in his campaign literature — in fact, the lowest income quintile in their analysis will actually see a higher percentage of filers with a tax increase than some higher quintiles.
(4) Point out that Obama’s “if you like your health care plan you can keep it” is fundamentally at odds with the nature of his proposal, since employers can still choose “pay” and drop coverage; that he’s hiding the ball on what the “pay” surcharge will be; and that he hasn’t indicated whether the “public option” will be fully funded by the “pay” surcharge or subsidized from other budget areas.
DrSteve on October 16, 2008 at 8:24 AM
Game changer? Actually, maybe it could be.
In a highly unscientific survey in my office, this would appear to be the only debate most people watched between the two. We know that in general, folks don’t start paying attention to the candidates until October. I’m optimistic that a good number of people tuned in without any preconceptions about either guy.
One person here watched the VP debate out of curiosity over Sarah Palin and came away impressed, and she hadn’t watched any presidential debate before last night. If those are the two debates the average Joe Plumber is watching, I think we’ll do fine.
JohnTant on October 16, 2008 at 8:26 AM
As disappointed (and furious) as I was at all the post debate analysis, I think this debate hit middle America hard. I thought McCain was clearly the winner; He isn’t “smooth” like Barry, (who isn’t smooth either, he’s slick and evil) but McCain showed America that he’s up to the job and will be fair vs. a snake oil salesman that wants to socialize America. I just heard on a KC morning program, the exact same thing- the DJ hosted a debate party last night and said how he could tell by the room’s demeanor who won and how McCain affected them. I didn’t hear how many people were there but he said no one thought Obama won- so there you go.
Another thing to watch for- “Regular” people are beginning to appreciate how Obama will change America- I’m hearing SO much more race rhetoric. People are getting really pissed, and I think it’s going to get even uglier; It’s not escaping people that Obama supporters are a bunch of thugs.
anniekc on October 16, 2008 at 8:28 AM
I agree. The stuff going on here in Ohio is BS. Michelle Malkin is following the nonsense on her blog. There’s a great local student group that’s uncovering all kinds of stuff in Columbus. Most recently, they helped expose a bunch of smart a** nonresident students, who are actually overseas studying and who are using one Ohio residence to get absentee ballots sent to them. Authorities are looking into the matter, and Ohio may be looking to tax their scholarship grants and get them for not fiing Ohio tax returns. Douchebags. All of them are Obama-like Ivy League egg headers.
BuckeyeSam on October 16, 2008 at 8:29 AM
Here’s Politico’s take on the debate and its effect on independents: “Perhaps the best news for McCain is the rating he received from independent voters. Among respondents not identified with either major political party, McCain was judged tonight’s winner, 51-42 percent.”
Now tell me, where does that FOX klutz, Lutz find his “independents” . . . hanging around the dumpster in the alley?
rplat on October 16, 2008 at 8:29 AM
McCain’s problem is that the McCain that showed up at last night’s debate is the McCain that should’ve been there all along. But since he wasn’t, those who don’t know him are likely to see the different persona as playing right into Obama’s narrative that he’s erratic and desperate.
Summary… Obama=Socialist
’nuff said
Texas Rainmaker on October 16, 2008 at 8:29 AM
Obama lied through his teeth. When McCain brought up the fund-raiser in Ayers’ house that launched The One’s career, the latter mumbled, “That’s not true.” Hell, even his wife would admit that it happened, assuming she’s not as pathological a liar as Obama. The media, of course, played down McCain’s big moments, even as both CNN and MSNBC are joining Fox News in looking into the Ayers affair, not to mention the Obama-Acorn connection and the voter fraud.
As to abortion, don’t give me that “health of the mother” nonsense. Obama has promised to remove ALL restrictions to abortion. It’s on video tape, all over the internet.
This one definitely goes to McCain. It remains to be seen if the MSM will notice. But I’ll bet Joe the Plumber did. Maybe Time will make him “Person of the Year.”
manwithblackhat on October 16, 2008 at 8:31 AM
It may have been too little, too late. In 3 weeks we’ll know for certain. Maybe Hillary will get enough write-ins to win.
kanda on October 16, 2008 at 8:32 AM
I thought McCain handed Obama his posterior the whole night. He absolutely destroyed Obama’s economic policy. Judges, McCain dominated, Obama quoted “fairness’ as a litmus test.
Joe the Plumber, gave McCain the lifeline he needed and may have just swung this election into McCain’s favor.
Amazing, considering I thought McCain was out after his trip to Washington, but last night, Obama looked upset the whole time McCain took it to him on his economic policy.
It didnt take Obama long to grab the whole “people will lose insurance on McCain’s plan” DNC talking point, the equivalent of Al Gore and “if you elect Republicans, black churches will burn” moment.
For a constitutional lawyer, I thought Obama’s response with that woman’s court case was just horrible. He said that judges need to be fair to someone like that. Earth to Obama, we follow the law in this nation, at least some of us do at any rate. Or we at least bother looking at it first, before dishing our moral authority on a case. I thought Democrats were not ones to legislate morality onto people? Did Obama not get that memo??????
TheHat on October 16, 2008 at 8:34 AM
Joe Plumber = Obama’s Wille Horton
Giddyup.
McCain needs to appeal to middle America’s tough-guy resourcefulness. Do they really want the cotton candy of Obama’s incomprehensible series of refundable tax credits, which, in effect, makes welfare queens out of half the country? Or do they want tax and trade policies that will promote a foundation for the future? Look what welfare has done for inner cities.
Just say no to spreading the wealth. Earn it yourselves and avoid the expensive middleman–Senator Government.
BuckeyeSam on October 16, 2008 at 8:34 AM
I agree with a lot of what you’ve written. But I don’t agree it will lead to the outcome you think. My wife (not really too interested in politics) said Obama is the kind of slick, attractive, smooth talking guy women are accustomed to meeting in bars, etc. Most know enough not to do more than flirt with his type. Those that do get involved, learn to regret it, and don’t make the same mistake twice. The McCain’s of this world are who the women marry when looking for stability and to start a family.
Moral of the story? It may not matter if McCain can’t adequately paint a clearer picture of Obama’s dangers. People may just be smart enough to draw their own conclusions. Thus, the knockout blow (that I also have been screaming for) may not be necessary.
JiangxiDad on October 16, 2008 at 8:35 AM
It’s interesting how our views of these individuals color our perceptions. What you saw as an increasing anger coming from McCain I saw as rising enthusiasm and passion combined with perhaps a well-needed sense of righteous outrage at how Barack Obama has brought himself to the brink of successfully carrying out one of the greatest political manipulations I have ever seen (you have to give the devil his due and Obama, with the willing complicity of the media, has carried out a magnificent propaganda campaign). Where you saw Obama as being articulate, I saw him as deflecting and being evasive. Whereas you saw McCain making general accusations that Obama answered with specific defenses, I saw McCain hit Obama hard on very specific charges that Obama deflected with general platitudes.
The news media has already declared Obama the winner of the debate–pretty much as expected. But it appears that the general public is taking a somewhat different view. While McCain didn’t deliver a “knockout” punch, he most definitely had Obama reeling on several occasions.
Contrary to what the media and left would have us believe, this race is far from over and McCain most definitely helped himself last night.
Matt Helm on October 16, 2008 at 8:35 AM
Obama:
Snake-oil salesman.
Snake charmer.
Snake in the grass.
Did he dispel those notions last night? No.
JiangxiDad on October 16, 2008 at 8:37 AM
I thought McCain clearly won, last night. I am getting tired of weak minded liberals who call in to talk radio, or blog that Obama “looked presidential.” How lame.
I’m also getting tired of the comments that McCain “looks like an old man.” If that is OK, or the sexist remarks about Sarah Palin are OK, then spare me the hypersensitivity on race. It is all, or nothing!
Star20 on October 16, 2008 at 8:37 AM
I’m beyond disgusted with the elite buffoons on FOX’s “allstars”. What debate were they watching? Nina Easton has been nasty towards McCain all season, and I’m sick of her- Kristol’s been a petulant twerp for awhile now and Juan Williams isn’t worth discussing. They came off as a bunch of snobs last night. They might as well have all been wearing ascots, and talking polo ponies.
I will always love me some Brit Hume, but he’s leaving in Jan. so I’m thinking my Special Report days are over. (but then again if Obambi is elected, all news watching is over)
anniekc on October 16, 2008 at 8:38 AM
Debate winners in my book:
1st – Jim Lehrer
VP – City of Scranton
2nd – Obama’s wonderfully tailored suit
3rd – Joe the Plumber
Seriously though, can anyone think of any conceivable reason why McCain allows Obama’s “95%” hogwash to stand at all these debates?
McCain was more lively, but he let too many opportunities go by. There were five or six blatant Obama lies and a few other good setups that he just passed by.
forest on October 16, 2008 at 8:38 AM
In such a controlled environment with a moderator what could he do beside stand up, grab Obama by the collar and deck him? One of Luntz sheep made a wise statement. Obama is articulate McCain not so much however, he wasn’t voting for a debater but a president. A smirky, shifty man who has questionable associates, distorted campaign ads and a vague or unknown background does not a president make. Sadly far too many of our people, and some who aren’t legal or alive, will pull the leaver because they are not informed but indoctrinated or have a sinister agenda.
wepeople on October 16, 2008 at 8:39 AM
“All in all, I think Obama
wonlost by doing what he did in the first two debates — he stayed calm and gaveinsightfulignorant,well-manneredand arrogantanswersfabrications while heavoided “getting into it”“spread his wealth” of socialism, with McCain and this nation feeling dumbfounded that this moron had got this far on hope and change.” …… Our leftward friend, Tom——-(edited for clarification)Rovin on October 16, 2008 at 8:43 AM
Some people are better at selling than others.
Obama has a sh1tty product, but can sucker more customers to buy.
Mac has a vastly superior product, but can’t sell it.
Mac just reads a few lines from the product’s tech manual, resulting in the average consumer not being impressed.
When you are selling, there are times when the shopper asks perfect questions. You may have heard salesmen say, ” I am glad you asked that” and then he goes on to drive home the difference between his product and his competitors. Mac never takes those opportunities. He has no skill in communicating his ideas, leaving the consumer to buy his competitor’s product.
There is a big difference between selling and closing, Mac does neither, he just assumes you already know about advantages and benefits about his product.
He seems willing to risk your domination by a tyrannical Marxist govt. to save face and not look ungentlemanly.
So, we must go ahead and get used to calling each other Comrade.
TheSitRep on October 16, 2008 at 8:46 AM
I didn’t watch last night but just saw a clip on Fox and Friends. “Undecided” my butt. One “undecided” front and center was such an Obama commercial and wanted to be ‘big man talking’ that even Luntz looked embarrassed and cut him off.
Marcus on October 16, 2008 at 8:48 AM
I think your analysis is largely correct, but your conclusion depends on whether the majority of Americans are suckers or not. Only we can save the McCain campaign.
JiangxiDad on October 16, 2008 at 8:49 AM
Unfortunately, I don’t think there are many undecideds left.
forest on October 16, 2008 at 8:50 AM
I was watching on Fox and they used the split screen most of the time.
Did it annoy anyone else how Obambi would laugh and smirk at each point McCain would make that got under his skin?
I thought sure someone else would have mentioned it by now.
It seemed so much like the Gore “sighs” in 2000.
garry on October 16, 2008 at 8:51 AM
I think I finally figured out what BO’s campaign is doing. They are “alien brain-sucking”! That’s it! Its that simple. All we need to do now is figure out how he is sucking his followers brains.
Zombies for McCain unite!
jbh45 on October 16, 2008 at 8:52 AM
From Beldar at Town Hall:“John McCain did fine at the third debate, but he benefited mostly because Barack Obama’s ordinariness became more obvious to more people. More people escaped the mass hypnosis tonight. They sat up suddenly, took a deep breath, and as they watched Barack Obama, do you know what they did next?
They patted their pants pockets, or looked around the room to see where they’d set down their purses. They checked their wallets. That’s smart, and it’s good for the McCain-Palin ticket. There’s easily enough time left, friends and neighbors, for enough more people to awake and to do a wallet-check before they cast their votes on November 4th.”
— Beldar
Rovin on October 16, 2008 at 8:53 AM
I’m sure Bill Kristol found it “presidential” and “charming”. I can’t think of a supposed right-leaning pundit who has made me angrier this season. For YEARS he has whined and cried for McCain and now he’s got McCain, who he now thinks should “fire his campaign”. As Rush yelled: “FIRE YOURSELF!”
Marcus on October 16, 2008 at 8:54 AM
id it annoy anyone else how Obambi would laugh and smirk at each point McCain would make that got under his skin?
garry on October 16, 2008 at 8:51 AM
ConMom on October 16, 2008 at 8:56 AM
Beat me to it!
scalleywag on October 16, 2008 at 8:59 AM
One thing Obama said that really stood out to me was this: “We need to develop a car that’s fuel efficient…”
“We” need to develop “a car”. It sounds pretty socialist to me, maybe we should call it the “the peoples’ car“. (It’s already, you know, been done.)
forest on October 16, 2008 at 9:02 AM
Good take Ed, as usual. I also like this take from Beldar (townhall,com)
Barack Obama makes a fabulous first impression. The high water mark of his political career so far, in fact, was his national coming-out moment, the keynote speech he gave at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. He could not match that speech at his own nominating convention in 2008. He’s unlikely to ever match it again.
Barack Obama’s great first impression degrades over time, with continued exposure. It happened even in his own party, as he jumped to a huge lead in the Democratic primaries, then barely coasted across the finish line as Democrats in later-voting states got better acquainted with him.
Throughout this election campaign, the conventional political wisdom has been that in the three general election presidential debates, Obama needed to establish credibility and reassure voters who were unfamiliar with him that he was a credible figure to become the President of the United States. For those voters who’d never closely watched him speak at any length — and that’s a group numbering in the tens of millions — he met that goal, I think, at the first debate. For them, he made another good first impression.
Some millions of those voters, however, continued to watch him in the second and third presidential debates. And Barack Obama never got any better. He didn’t stumble badly either. But even though he’s concealed with fair success his genuine Hard Left alliances and proclivities, every time he’s been under closer and more prolonged exposure, Barack Obama’s status as a conventional tax-and-spend Democratic politician from Chicago has become more clear. He can fool all of the people only some of the time, and over time, with time, more and more of them figure him out.
Each additional debate has proved that he’s not The One. He’s just another one.
I wish there could be ten more debates between now and election day. But even without them, lots of voters who were enthralled by their first impression of Barack Obama will, as they focus in on election day, find other means to get second and third and fourth impressions.
And more and more of them will come to see him as Professor Marvel, not the Great and Powerful Oz. More and more of them will realize that he doesn’t do magic, he does magic tricks, and they mostly involve making other people’s stuff disappear: Like every other Democrat, he’lll take more of their money through higher taxes and redistribute it, through graft and giveaways and government bureaucracies, to the Democratic Party’s traditional favorites.
John McCain did fine at the third debate, but he benefited mostly because Barack Obama’s ordinariness became more obvious to more people. More people escaped the mass hypnosis tonight. They sat up suddenly, took a deep breath, and as they watched Barack Obama, do you know what they did next?
They patted their pants pockets, or looked around the room to see where they’d set down their purses. They checked their wallets. That’s smart, and it’s good for the McCain-Palin ticket. There’s easily enough time left, friends and neighbors, for enough more people to awake and to do a wallet-check before they cast their votes on November 4th.
I might also add this; Republicans have won national elections consistently for the past several decades. This country remains a center-right country. Far too many people here at HA allow themselves to be influenced by the Liberal media pounding away with their message 24/7, shaping the news. I remain faithful in the American people; faithful that enough of us rely upon our own instincts to guide our path rather than allow outside influences to get in the way. The difference between right & wrong, good & evil, is easily recognized when common sense matches up with instincts (gut feeling). For a Democrat to win a national election, some very important percentages must be met. The Black vote, Hispanic vote, and Female vote, all have precise percentages that must be met for a Democrat to win a general election. Black vote met, Hispanic vote met, Female vote is not met & it’s not even close. This is why Obama is flooding the market with commercials, and has purchased a 1/2 hour TV spot on CBS. This is why the Liberal media remains 100% in the bag for Obama and his back side. Many of you here have allowed your emotions to be influenced by the Liberal media and the record breaking money Obama has spent on airtime; however, Obama & the DNC know that he doesn’t have the percentages to close the deal.
Keemo on October 16, 2008 at 9:02 AM
gak. what a headache from last night
wise_man on October 16, 2008 at 9:02 AM
Were you drinking when Obama said “we need to invest” or when McCain said “my friends”.
forest on October 16, 2008 at 9:04 AM
ConMom on October 16, 2008 at 8:56 AM
Obama’s arrogance was being discussed in detail on local stations here in Montana. When he laughed at McCain’s mention of ACORN, that really set people off.
ACORN must be dealt with, serious consequences must be handed out to all involved. Our Democracy must include the integrity of our free election system. ACORN has set out to destroy this most precious fabric of our Democracy.
Keemo on October 16, 2008 at 9:06 AM
It scares me that this sinister character just might bamboozle his way into the white house. Everything about him is shady…his smirk and arrogance is proof. We don’t need a feckless leader and if he wins that’s exactly what we’ll get.
scalleywag on October 16, 2008 at 9:10 AM
I think Mac is afraid that if he says 40% of us don’t pay income tax but will receive a check from those who do (under Bambi’s plan), a good portion of that 40% will like that idea. I know a lot of them get tickled over their earned income tax credit already.
pugwriter on October 16, 2008 at 9:11 AM
Keemo, here are the facts about ACORN. It’s not some nefarious left-wing scheme to influence the election:
McCain made some dire claims about a liberal group he said was out to steal the election:
McCain: We need to know the full extent of Sen. Obama’s relationship with ACORN, who is now on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy.
It’s true that the voter registration wing of the Association of Community Organizers for Reform Now has run into trouble in several states. ACORN employees have been investigated and in some cases indicted for voter registration fraud. Most recently, more than 2,000 registrations in Lake County, Ind., have turned out to be falsified.
But does this constitute “destroying the fabric of democracy”? More like destroying the fabric of work ethic. There’s been no evidence that the ACORN employees who submitted fraudulent forms have been paving the way for illegal voting. Rather, they’re trying to get paid for doing no work.
Dan Satterberg, the Republican prosecuting attorney in King County, Wash., where the first ACORN case was prosecuted, said:
Satterberg: [A] joint federal and state investigation has determined that this
scheme was not intended to permit illegal voting.
Instead, the defendants cheated their employer. … It was hardly a sophisticated plan: The defendants simply realized that making up names was easier than actually canvassing the streets looking for unregistered voters. …
[It] appears that the employees of ACORN were not performing the work that they were being paid for, and to some extent, ACORN is a victim of employee theft.
The $8-an-hour employees were charged with providing false information on a voter registration, and in one case with making a false statement to a public official. ACORN was fined for showing insufficient oversight, but it was not charged with masterminding any kind of fraud.
Tom_Shipley on October 16, 2008 at 9:14 AM
These things take time my dear Mr. Shipley.
A RICO case is built when it becomes a defacto ability to show a leader’s indifference to the commission of a conspiratorial fraud. ACORN may not pay the piper with the bigwigs this election but their day will come.
sven10077 on October 16, 2008 at 9:17 AM
Wow Tom, you are really something. Get back to us when the FBI releases it’s findings and the criminals start getting named & prosecuted.
Keemo on October 16, 2008 at 9:17 AM
yes
wise_man on October 16, 2008 at 9:18 AM
http://www.dcexaminer.com/opinion/Use_RICO_on_ACORN_editorial.html
Read this Tom…
Keemo on October 16, 2008 at 9:20 AM
sven10077 on October 16, 2008 at 9:17 AM
and
Keemo on October 16, 2008 at 9:17 AM
Dan Satterberg, the Republican prosecuting attorney in King County, Wash., where the first ACORN case was prosecuted, said:</b?
Satterberg: [A] joint federal and state investigation has determined that this scheme was not intended to permit illegal voting.
Some people live in reality. Then there are you two.
Tom_Shipley on October 16, 2008 at 9:21 AM
Joe Wurzelbacher may be the “game changer” who helps McCain’s ideas reach the American voter this year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdLPWfTczM4
Lockstein13 on October 16, 2008 at 9:21 AM
In short, McCain will earn the trust of enough swing voters to win the election on November 4. Obama…not so much.
ManlyRash on October 16, 2008 at 9:22 AM
“There is no Mafia”
J Edgar Hoover
Keep on spinning Tom I hear an Ohio class sub needs a spare gyroscope.
sven10077 on October 16, 2008 at 9:23 AM
You also might want to study up on this Tom…
http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/10/14/state-by-state-fraud-by-electoral-fraud/
Keemo on October 16, 2008 at 9:23 AM
I full expect Obama to maintain his present lead, as this has been the pattern in polling for several presidential elections. As for the veracity of that lead, I yield the remainder of my time to Presidents Kerry, Gore and Mondale.
ManlyRash on October 16, 2008 at 9:25 AM
Keemo and sven,
Show me one shred of evidence that suggests the voter registration fraud that some ACORN workers have been charged with were part of an effort to sway the actual vote in a state.
I mean, when the guy registered the Dallas Cowboys roster to vote, it’s not because he thinks Jason Witten and Pacman Jones are going to show up and vote for Obama — or would actually be permitted to vote if they did or in fact actually BE REGISTERED (as opposed to being signed up to be registered — it’s because he’s trying to get out of actual work.
Tom_Shipley on October 16, 2008 at 9:26 AM
Leave it to “Tom_Shipley” to do his best Astroturfer imitation:
I mean, HEY – it’s not everyday that you get someone telling you that a criminal who shot someone on the street was “merely guilty of littering the street with spent caps.”
Lockstein13 on October 16, 2008 at 9:27 AM
ignore that shipley fool- he shows up to troll every so often
anniekc on October 16, 2008 at 9:30 AM
Nobody so blind as those who will not see.
1) The electoral process works just fine without organizations like ACORN affording through “poor misguided nefarious doofus workers under no guidance from above” the wiggle room for fraud on the order of the Chicago and N’walins’ legendary machines.
2) your side of the aisle spreads the lie that it had two national elections “stolen” to justify internally the need for “counter cheating”. I’m from Ohio Tom Ohio wings right the Ohio donks took power after the Cleveland GOP gang ruined our name through Cleveland basic greed and corruption. The Donk SecState is leaving enough fraud that if she fels the need magically Ohio will be called for Barry and she will roll the dice the media and McCain will not want to push the issue….
see JFK/Nixon Daley Chicago 1960
“There is no mafia” J Edgar Hoover
sven10077 on October 16, 2008 at 9:31 AM
So many lost opportunities, particularly on education. Why the hell didn’t McCain talk about the radical groups Obama and Ayers funneled money to through the Chicago Annenberg Challenge? Why did he not mention that they wasted $50 to $100 million dollars on this program alone, which did nothing to improve education (indeed, I would argue it made it worse). He mentioned that they funded ACORN (to which Barry replied with an odious grin) but he didn’t mention anything else.
Why does he not talk about Obama’s plan to take Joe the Plumber’s money to fund a Civilian National Security Force that would be “just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded” as our military?
Ed Morrissey and Michelle Malkin covered this last summer, but I don’t think it got nearly the attention it deserves.
It’s time to resurrect this story, particularly in light of the fact that ACORN is in the news, and is one of the groups he would fund, along with Public Allies, Inc.
Buy Danish on October 16, 2008 at 9:33 AM
Baseball has been on life support a long time but the diehards haven’t gotten the news. Big deal. The debate wasn’t watched in LA and Philly. Don’t think it would have made a difference in either city.
slug on October 16, 2008 at 9:35 AM
Just noticed on Drudge that Mr. Cocky is already planning his huge election night, victory party. Me thinks he might be jumping the gun- kind of makes him look a little, uh, oh I don’t know- arrogant?
anniekc on October 16, 2008 at 9:38 AM
Lot’s of good “why didn’t he…” questions for McCain. Fact is, we are more in the know here at HA than he is. Maybe we need to nominate a radio talk show host for president next time. They understand the issues.
Mojave Mark on October 16, 2008 at 9:40 AM
Obama’s lead in new Rasmussen daily is down to 4 points.
Mark1971 on October 16, 2008 at 9:40 AM
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