Debate: Live chat and open thread

posted at 7:05 pm on October 15, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

Tonight we have the final presidential debate for the 2008 cycle, and if you’re in the Twin Cities area, we have some party ready for you!  AM1280 The Patriot will host a debate party at Trocadero’s in Minneapolis tonight.  The Northern Alliance Radio Network will emcee an evening of fun and politics, including my radio partner Mitch Berg, Power Line, SCSU Scholars, and Fraters Libertas.  We’ll have free appetizers and a cash bar. The debate goes from 8pm CST to 9:30pm CST and doors will open around 7:30pm. Admission is free – but please RSVP at the handy AM1280 RSVP Page so we can plan accordingly.

You won’t miss anything at Hot Air, either, if you’re not able to make it to the party.  We’ll have a live chat room running during the debate, with Jazz Shaw and Lady Logician moderating a cast of thousands — literally!  Since the live streaming has interfered with the operation of the blog for some Hot Air readers, we’ll skip that and stick with the chat room.

I’ll also make a post-debate appearance on the Hugh Hewitt show at 10:30 CT to discuss the night’s events and their implication for the election. And yes, I shamelessly recycled the first two paragraphs of this post from my pre-debate analysis.  I’m all about efficiency, baby!

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Actually, astroturfers is a term that applies to those attempting to give the appearance of a grass roots movement where none really exists. I think Axelrod’s company uses it to go into blogs to plant seeds for an opposing view without appearing to actually be the opposing view. Fake grass roots effort… hence… astroturf.

Dead on, but Axelrod’s activities here in Chicago go waaay beyond blog postings.

He’s the “king” of astroturfing here, and it involves doing sketchy stuff like creating bogus organizations to endorse whatever or whomever is paying Axelrod’s firm.

It’s legalized consumer fraud.

His company .. can’t remember its name offhand .. but it’s reportedly pretty secretive.

Go figure .. another shady cat in the Obama camp.

I

Cannot

Believe it.

cgoode777 on October 16, 2008 at 12:49 AM

jgapinoy on October 16, 2008 at 12:22 AM

bingo…in OT!!!

jerrytbg on October 16, 2008 at 12:50 AM

Mark Steyn at NRO’s The Corner suggested a series of “Joe the Plumber-meets-Senator Government ads.”

People are suggesting using the “Bob the Builder” theme song as a guide:

Joe the Plumber!
Can we tax him?
…Yes, we can!

I just sent an email suggesting a different tact:

Spoofing the Mac vs. PC commercials.

Given the popularity of that ad campaign, don’t you guys think that would resonate more than “Bob the Builder”?

Or am I off base?

LOL

powerpro on October 16, 2008 at 12:23 AM

LOVE IT.

I predict someone somewhere would allege copyright infringement or something, but it’s well worth doing (with some careful expert advice beforehand).

LOVE the ideas.

S on October 16, 2008 at 12:50 AM

flyfisher on October 16, 2008 at 12:47 AM

Big Banger

It is late and I’m having Clinton flashbacks with a bit of Spinal Tap replay.

Laura in Maryland on October 16, 2008 at 12:51 AM

Yeah, thats basically the way I saw it. Glad I am not a religious freak. Nice job evangelicals. we are damn doomed

Roger Waters on October 15, 2008 at 11:17 PM

I like Romney and would much rather him as our candidate than Mccain. That said, Romney never had a shot. By and large he does not connect to a large group of people in this country. He was the Massachusetts governor with a record of being pro-gay, pro-choice, and really bad on guns. I opposed him from the start because of Romneycare. I also hated his idea of giving money to the auto industry.

Mitt Romney is talented and likeable, but he entered the Republican primary with a less than conservative record and it cost him. He ran hard to the right, which he had to do. And maybe he convinced you he is a true right-winger, but a lot of us believe it was rank opportunism. I see Mitt as a maleable man of the middle who will say whatever to achieve his next goal. Maybe that’s wrong. Maybe he was always a true conservative and moved way left to win in Massachusetts. Either way, it makes him seem less than trustworthy.

Bottom line: because of his record he was a fundamentally flawed candidate so it’s disingenuous to blame his loss on evangelicals.

flyfisher on October 15, 2008 at 11:35 PM

I’m quoting the whole thing because it’s all worth repeating.

I’ll add this. Romney also lost because we had a lot of strong candidates running, almost all as conservatives, and the conservative vote got split five or six ways. That helps explain how a not-quite-conservative like McCain wound up winning.

I am one of those “evangelicals,” and I would have voted for Romney long before Huckabee, even though I don’t consider Mormonism to be a Christian faith. (A matter of doctrine, and I am not going to get into that discussion at this point.)

But yes, I would have voted for Romney over Huckabee, because we’re choosing a president rather than a preacher. I had some doubts about how conservative Romney really is, but I saw him as more conservative than McCain. And Huckabee, for all he tried to play himself as a conservative, spent way too much time demagoguing “Big Oil,” “Big Business,”, etc. You can’t sell yourself as a conservative when your attacks come out of the liberal playbook.

But I think this whole “evangelicals wouldn’t vote for a Mormon” idea was a canard thrown out by liberal commentators who didn’t have a clue how evangelicals really felt.

theregoestheneighborhood on October 16, 2008 at 12:56 AM

I am seeing these polls saying that Obama won the debate, and I really don’t understand that at all except as propaganda. John McCain was good tonight and was far better substantively tha Obama. I think the reaction on this site as the debate progressed was that McCain won. I think I am capable of assessing the debate. If Obama had won, I would aay so. Obama didn’t win. McCain win the debate.

Phil Byler on October 16, 2008 at 12:57 AM

I repeat Senator government lost this debate with his own mouth. McCain did not have to do anything once Obama started talking about taxing people and spending it. In fact McCain should have said what other spending plans do you have Senator government.

We need less government , less taxes not robin hood

unseen on October 16, 2008 at 12:57 AM

I’ve only heard one track, “Rock and Roll Train” I think its called. Good track. How does the rest of the disc compare?

pugwriter on October 16, 2008 at 12:48 AM

Really, Really good. Yeah Rock n Roll Train is a great tune and there are 14 more tunes on the album which all sound great. I think there is maybe one song on the album, I dont care for, the other 14 rule. Its been a loooooong time coming…too long.

Roger Waters on October 16, 2008 at 12:58 AM

Did anyone catch that summation by Obama, did anyone listen CAREFULLY to what he said?

He SAID (Obama said) that, “we have to provide college to everyone who wants to go…” and just before that summation, declared this: “WE HAVE TO GET LOAN GUARANTEES TO THE AUTO MAKERS.”

He ACTUALLY said that, both things! AND, he repeated that same “give college to everyone” routine something like SEVEN TIMES throughout his entire responses (whole debate, regardless of question, he slipped that line in all of his answers).

He’s SAYING that he thinks that the taxpayers should start paying for college educations for “anyone who wants to go.”

No standards, no requirements, just, like, “if you want to go,” then you get to go to, uhhh, COLLEGE CAMP, ride your bike, take a canoe in the morning, play with the XBox, get some neat clothes, just GO TO COLLEGE CAMP!

But that “we have to get loan guarantees to the auto makers” thing was outrageous and he just sorta’ stuck that into other comments in an extremely covert fashion.

I guess his plan will also include another #20M to Acorn, just like the latest bailout to “auto makers” did.

S on October 16, 2008 at 12:58 AM

Romney would have no problem hammering Oslime-a on Ayres, wright, and the rest of his scum bag friends.

csdeven on October 16, 2008 at 12:59 AM

I think that someone should tell FOX that their people sucked badly tonight, that only Olby could be worse. It is ridiculous for FOX to be so off tonight. McCain clearly won tonight’s debate.

Phil Byler on October 16, 2008 at 1:01 AM

Senator Government wants to tax Joe the plumber.
unseen on October 16, 2008 at 12:47 AM

Beautious and thanx…what a difference a word makes…

And to those of you with a shakey faith in God….give it up..
“It’s not who you are but whose you are.” You have no choice so live and RIP.

gracie on October 16, 2008 at 1:03 AM

It is going to be a VERY rough ride. We should start planning on how to try to cut the pain short by 2010 then full conquest by 2012. We need to learn that allowing weak willed, corrupt, immoral amongst our rank while may have some short term benefit it is a long term losing strategy.

C-Low on October 16, 2008 at 12:28 AM

Well said.

S on October 16, 2008 at 1:04 AM

Victory song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE4oE-OYNb0&feature=related

(Gretchen Wilson sings Sarah’s theme song better than Heart.)

ErinF on October 16, 2008 at 1:05 AM

He SAID (Obama said) that, “we have to provide college to everyone who wants to go…”

This makes sense in Liberal Land. Hold on, my dog wants to ask me a question. What’s that girl, you want to go to college and get a degree in women’s studies? You want to live on campus and go out of state? Oh, you don’t want to get a part time job as a guide dog because it will interfere with the whole college experience? Can I please vote for Obama, you betcha!

Laura in Maryland on October 16, 2008 at 1:06 AM

Some perspective: tonight’s issues are considered Democrat issues, the Democrat candidate Obama is a smooth talker and yet, the Republican candidate McCain won the debate tonight.

Phil Byler on October 16, 2008 at 1:06 AM

Well said.

S on October 16, 2008 at 1:04 AM

you are assuming that the ballot box will not be stuffed. with an open border policy, welfare state and Acorn off the leash with no DOJ or FBI looking at it? Yeah good luck with that vote in 2010 or 2012

unseen on October 16, 2008 at 1:06 AM

Fake grass roots effort… hence… astroturf.

CC – BHO: “my Muslim faith”

CapedConservative on October 16, 2008 at 12:40 AM

Right, right you are, specifically, but Ace raised the use of the term in the context of “fake Christian” authors…as to political opinion.

The “formal” definition (I’m laughing here) is as you say (not laughing at you but at this conversation…).

S on October 16, 2008 at 1:07 AM

But look, I don’t want to fight all of the primary fights all over again. I had legitimate philosophical reasons for opposing him and my being a Southern Baptist had nothing to do with it.

flyfisher on October 16, 2008 at 12:43 AM

O.K., understood. I mostly agree with you but I placed secondarily those concerns about the “plastic” appearance and formalities, in lieu of more important issues. Anyway, we’re on the same page here.

S on October 16, 2008 at 1:09 AM

It’s past one in the east and I’m out of beer and down to my last swig of Rum.
Don’t want to put pressure on you Gov….but I’ll leave you with the best rendition of the song.
Yea!!!

jerrytbg on October 16, 2008 at 1:10 AM

tonight was the first night McCain connected to the people. Of course the talking heads don’t get it. the people like ALlah don’t understand. Tonight the people heard McCain. The poll numbers will change on tonight’s performce. Mostly it was Senator Obama showing his true face that of a tax and spend liberal but tonight the people got a reformer spending cutter, non taxing alternitive.

how can Obama bi8ch about a $10trillion debt by saying he will increase it? Makes no sense. Obama was more like Bush tonight than McCain will ever be. Bush has a 30% approval rating because of his spending. the talk of another $300billion bailout /stimulus plan by Pelossi and reid does not help Michelle or her children.

unseen on October 16, 2008 at 1:11 AM

you are assuming that the ballot box will not be stuffed. with an open border policy, welfare state and Acorn off the leash with no DOJ or FBI looking at it? Yeah good luck with that vote in 2010 or 2012

unseen on October 16, 2008 at 1:06 AM

You clearly misunderstand my assumptions.

S on October 16, 2008 at 1:17 AM

I’d love to say that I watched the debate, but I didn’t. Sorry, guys.

I have a toddler to care for – and keeping her as far away from the TV as possible is a priority of mine, especially now. The other night, I caught her saying “Obama!”, twice. That was it for me. No more TV for her, for a good, long time.

newton on October 16, 2008 at 1:19 AM

For a 527 Ad:

- a “Men In Tights” parody of “Robbing Hood” Obama and his band of MORE-y Men (Ayers, Rezko, Pfleger & Wright) stealing nuts from a travelling group of Plumbers and giving the acorns to a host of business-suited Squirrels wearing COMMUNITY ORGANIZER buttons.

Narration (with silly Renaissance/medieval music):

Junior Senator Barack Obama wants to, in his own words, “spread the wealth around“… which means: taking your money… and giving it to people he thinks are more deserving.

We think that’s NUTS.”

profitsbeard on October 16, 2008 at 1:22 AM

Perhaps the best news for McCain is the rating he received from independent voters. Among respondents not identified with either major political party, McCain was judged tonight’s winner, 51-42 percent.

from Politico
Senator Government wants to tax Joe Plumber. I thought so…
Yowza!
Sarah and Todd: Let’s hear more about your small business: fish-picking. Couldn’t get much more seaworthy than that.

gracie on October 16, 2008 at 1:23 AM

Two things:

When ever I see McCain speak, it always reminds me as to why I am voting for Palin.

McCain always proves, in life and in politics, he can take a beating and still remain standing. Unfortunatly, it doesn’t always win elections.

lwssdd on October 16, 2008 at 1:27 AM

Just a thought…

The Laws of Thermodynamics and our high school science classes tell us there is a net loss in a system; you can never get out as much energy as you put in to it.

If a government takes money and then gives it back to me in the form of programmes or tax credits, there is a net loss;
this is why a centralised government is so inefficient.

Obama wants us to believe he can defy these laws and the economic calculus all works out. Wow!

That’s a winner right there.

linlithgow on October 16, 2008 at 1:31 AM

When I go vote on Nov. 4th, Just in case BO wins. Which I sure and pray he doesn’t. I will vote no on all measures. Except on Gay marriage. I will vote yes. Yes means you don’t want it. No is yes. Strange how they try to trick you into saying the wrong thing. I am ticked that Judges can take something that was laid out into our Constitution and laws and think they can change it. We voted before on this and we won. So, they are saying our votes don’t mean sheet. (crap) code word. All the other measures can kiss my (_|_). If BO is going to tax us, take more jobs away then Ca. can suffer too. All the money they want to do this and do that. When we are in a deficit and our idiot Democrat Governor says we need a bail out. In Santa Barbara County, they owe a bunch of money for Medical. They were submitting to much fishy claims. Now they want this super train. Nope don’t think so. McCain has to win this. I have trouble sleeping at nights. I know that life goes on. But I am very upset and knowing the ignorance that is out there. And to think that these ignorant sheep are breeding more ignorant sheep. Sorry, had to spew.

sheebe on October 16, 2008 at 1:33 AM

People whose politics Obama admires: William Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn, Louis Farrakhan (Million Man March), Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Frank Marshall Davis, Barack Obama I (Kenyan socialist).

People who Obama wants to pal around with in the future: Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Mohamar Khaddafy, Ayatollah Khamanei, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong Il.

Any questions?

indythinker on October 16, 2008 at 1:36 AM

sheebe on October 16, 2008 at 1:33 AM

Right there with you.

Hawkins1701 on October 16, 2008 at 1:39 AM

Here is why Obama’s past associations matter and need to be discussed before the economy.

If Barak Obama had to stand the same process as other Americans do in order to receive a security clearance, he would be denied. Obama has to pass the interview just like everyone else. OK, who gives the interview? We do that’s who. This election season is the interview. And if any other candidate lied, or changed his story, or told the interviewer that they should be talking about the job he is applying for rather than his associations with terrorists, criminals, and racists, the interviewer would toss him out on his ass in two seconds flat.

That is how this should be couched. F**king PERIOD!

csdeven on October 16, 2008 at 1:41 AM

Here is why Obama’s past associations matter and need to be discussed before the economy.

If Barak Obama had to stand the same process as other Americans do in order to receive a security clearance, he would be denied. He wants to be the most powerful man on earth and have access to every secret the US has. Obama has to pass the interview just like everyone else. OK, who gives the interview? We do that’s who. This election season is the interview. And if any other candidate lied, or changed his story, or told the interviewer that they should be talking about the job he is applying for rather than his associations with terrorists, criminals, and racists, the interviewer would toss him out on his ass in two seconds flat.

csdeven on October 16, 2008 at 1:42 AM

Ooops. Sorry. I needed to add this line:

He wants to be the most powerful man on earth and have access to every secret the US has. He has to pass a security clearance.

csdeven on October 16, 2008 at 1:43 AM

theregoestheneighborhood and flyfisher

McCain had the biggest reliable constituency, veterans.

Huckabee’s reliable constituency was die-hard evangelical Christians who wanted a glib, sweater-wearing reverend president.

Thompson had no reliable constituency.

Giuliani’s reliable constituency was the foreign policy hawks.

Duncan Hunter didn’t have a reliable constituency.

Tancredo’s reliable constituency was for border enforcement.

Romney’s reliable constituencies were Mormons, and those deeply distrustful of McCain

Brownback had no reliable constituency.

Ron Paul – conspiracy theorists, extreme libertarians, and Democrats crossing over.

indythinker on October 16, 2008 at 1:46 AM

Please G-d help us if Obama wins!!!This year I’m very scared what will happen to our Democracy!!

beachkatie on October 16, 2008 at 1:47 AM

Absolutley hilarious that a slip of the tongue by McCain – “Senator Government” – may turn out to be the single best line of the entire 14-year-long campaign. It may all by itself be worth a couple of points.

CK MacLeod on October 16, 2008 at 1:48 AM

lwssdd on October 16, 2008 at 1:27 AM

ouch, but funny.

gave me the image of Rocky “Adriiaaan Adriaaaaan!!!”

TheCulturalist on October 16, 2008 at 1:48 AM

CK MacLeod on October 16, 2008 at 1:48 AM

That was so NonMcCain that it had to be a slip.

But, oh, what a slip it was!!

I about fell on the floor.

TheCulturalist on October 16, 2008 at 1:51 AM

Drudge Report is showing 72% believe that John McCain won the debate. Now that makes sense.

FOX needs to have their asses chewed out for their being whores to pro-Obama pressure tonight. Can’t we have one news channel that is conservative?

Phil Byler on October 16, 2008 at 2:17 AM

Y’know, Phil, on that point, getting a bug in his butt about Fox the last day or so has been very unseemly behavior by Senator Government. There was something subtly off about his defensive, canned “eloquent” performance. He better get his head back in the game, or making himself President Government may turn out to be a little more difficult than he’s been thinking.

CK MacLeod on October 16, 2008 at 2:21 AM

I haven’t had time to read through all the analysis, was busy tonight.

However, my left wing media here in Seattle had a viewers’ poll that showed 75% thought McCain won the debate. WOW. Game changer indeed.

Stop being wobbly at the knees. We need to get busy. No one is going to do the hard work for us to get McCain (as flawed as he is) elected. WE HAVE TO DO IT.

Security Mom on October 16, 2008 at 2:35 AM

Quoting Brother Bluto…”Let’s DO IT!!!!”

Get out to the polls on Nov. 4th and vote America First. If you live in Ohio, vote early and vote often…

Gohawgs on October 16, 2008 at 3:04 AM

Looks like I’m late to the party …

Benjamin9 on October 16, 2008 at 4:12 AM

John McCain won the debate, in spite of the fact that there were no clever “gotcha” moments, which appear to be required by the usual doom-and-gloom post debate pundits.

Though John McCain did not use all the ammunition in his arsenal against Barack Obama, he had him on the defensive throughout most of the debate. In spite of Obama’s attempt to remain cool and in control, and his efforts to avoid responding directly to the revealing facts presented by John McCain, his windy and winding responses, were ineffective, in most cases.

McCain controlled the majority of the debate, on most issues, while appearing far more knowledgeable and presidential.

To whom did Obama direct all those childish and contorted nervous facial expressions?

sinsing on October 16, 2008 at 5:57 AM

The Fox All Star Panel should be sent to the minors or released. Nina Easton isn’t going to have Fortune magazine or readership if Obama spreads the wealth. Barnes said McCain should have said “I’m a conservative and he’s a liberal. McCain isn’t a “conservative” and would have been chewed apart for saying so. Kristol is done and Juan Williams was the fairest of all, so that says something.

Tazz 55 on October 16, 2008 at 6:23 AM

I was disappointed by McCain’s performance.
McCain just lacks the killer instinct when going after Obama.

For example, Obama gave him several opportunities to talk about Ayers and McCain whiffed it.
Where was the Ayers is a left-wing Socialist, he picked you because you are also left-wing, Socialist? Here are some of the things you and Ayers funded….(include $250,000 to help Rev. Wright’s Marxist Black Theology work…)
Where was the “You are the most far left, liberal in the United States Senate; Senator Obama do you think the voters understand how far left you are? ”
Where was the you got elected for State Senate because you ran unopposed, you had a henchman get the others kicked off the ballot.

“Its all about character Senator Obama. You say that your mother spent the last days of her life fighting the insurance company for health care. You were a Harvard trained lawyer working in a big Chicago law firma at the time, why weren’t you fighting the insurance companies for your cancer-ridden mother? Instead you spent your time working with Bill Ayers and running for political office.”

Where was the you are the most inexperienced person to ever run for President. Did you know that in the last X years that you have been in political office, the X newspaper calculated that you spent over half of it running for the next office? All you have ever done is mark yourself as “present” then start running for the next office. You have never done anything but run for political office.”

To quote Mark Steyn of the National Review:
“His reluctance to whack the Democrat wound up, by default, elevating Obama. When a veteran Republican who’s been on the national scene for a quarter-century and a Democrat whom nobody had heard of 20 minutes ago appear to be equal in stature, then by definition the Democrat wins.”

———–
Maybe I missed the good parts while visiting the bathroom or getting a beer….

albill on October 16, 2008 at 6:25 AM

John McCain won the debate, in spite of the fact that there were no clever “gotcha” moments, which appear to be required by the usual doom-and-gloom post debate pundits.

We didn’t need “clever gotcha moments”. We needed a strong offense on the economy, which was far and away the most important issue in this debate, and he failed to provide one. He had one golden opportunity to get a solid lead over Obama, and he blew it. Don’t fault the “doom-and-gloom pundits” for being angry with him, because he deliberately held back on connecting Obama to FM/FM. If he loses this election, it’s going to be partly because he didn’t convince voters that the Dems are the culprits in this mess.

CherokeeJack on October 16, 2008 at 6:27 AM

which appear to be required by the usual doom-and-gloom post debate pundits.

Yea…what’s THAT all about?

dmarie on October 16, 2008 at 6:29 AM

Joe the Plumber speaks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdLPWfTczM4 I think his message could resonate big in swing states and middle America

Tazz 55 on October 16, 2008 at 6:43 AM

yeha am seeing post doom and glooom reviews. Well, it was all or nothing and bacing Obama a cake wasnt necessarily going to work, so I differ with the reviews. Obama had nothing to say that was new, and was stumbling the whole time. MCcain kicked his ass.

johnnyU on October 16, 2008 at 6:56 AM

McCain has to run against Bush.

McCain has to feature Joe the Plumber.

McCain has to run an ad in which Obama says Obama’s knowing Ayers makes Obama qualified for the Senate.

IT’s the taxes, stupid.

McCain HAD to ask OBama how he can give tax breaks to those who pay no taxes now.

He did not.

If Obama ties Bush to McCain, then McCain should tie Wright to Obama.

I don’t really care if McCain likes it or not. He has a hreater responsibility than just his sensitivities.

drjohn on October 16, 2008 at 7:22 AM

I don’t really care if McCain likes it or not. He has a hreater responsibility than just his sensitivities.

drjohn on October 16, 2008 at 7:22 AM

That’s what I thought when he was patting himself on the back again for his years of public service, and I’m not referring to his military service.

Note to pols.: Don’t praise your sacrifice in service to the public. You have jobs/benefits that any American would gladly take. You and other pols. live privileged lives at our expense as our representatives. Thank us for giving you the privilege of governing.

If McCain wants to serve America, beat Obama, with whatever it takes. Otherwise, you’re just serving yourself.

And slowly, it’s becoming apparent that your “maverickness” and “stubbornness”, and inability to march in step with your own side are examples of self-serving, not serving us.

Cut the crap John. I wish your father was here to smack you. Stop pulling your punches!!

JiangxiDad on October 16, 2008 at 7:32 AM

tonight was the first night McCain connected to the people. Of course the talking heads don’t get it.

I watched Fox and was just dumbfounded at the talking heads summation of the debate. I felt there were a couple times McCain could have knocked Obama out of the park,, but with that said,, I thought he was great. Sure,, I wasn’t expecting much,, but he was still great. Some say McCain got weaker as the debate went on,, he may have,, but then I read too that a lot of people will turn it off after half way through.
As for Fox,, once again,, I don’t know what debate these people were watching. It wasn’t the one I watched. I actually heard Krautheimer say something like “Obama was very smooth as he always is,, McCain needed Obama to slip up and Obama never does that” Krautheimer said something very close to that,,, That was so factually wrong my jaw dropped!

JellyToast on October 16, 2008 at 7:34 AM

JellyToast on October 16, 2008 at 7:34 AM

Exactly – what you said.

After Krauthammer’s remarks I turned off the TV, computer and lights and went to bed super depressed.

This morning, looks like much different opinions all over the news orgs and regular folks. Maybe all is not lost.

tru2tx on October 16, 2008 at 7:38 AM

Maybe all is not lost.

tru2tx on October 16, 2008 at 7:38 AM

Sometimes you read those articles looking at past elections, and what mattered to voters. Often they say the VP pick and the debates didn’t really matter that much.

Let’s hope that in regard to the debates that people have already come up with sufficient reason not to vote for Obama, and didn’t need McCain to supply the reason for them.

In other words, there’s hope only if the majority of Americans can recognize for themselves the real Obama and the danger he poses. McCain is not able to do that for them, for reasons which are subject to debate.

JiangxiDad on October 16, 2008 at 7:49 AM

I think if you cut out all of Obama’s “filler” words, you could cut his answers short by two thirds. The man uses filler words to make his answers appear more “folksy”. There is very little substance to his answers.

bloggless on October 16, 2008 at 7:55 AM

Don’t let anyone try to tell you that John McCain did not win the last debate. John McCain did clearly win. It was the reaction on this site as the debate progressed.

John McCain was rightly aggressive in going after certain issues with Obama, such as the partnership with Ayres (about which Obama lied) and Obama’s intended increases in Government spending that will inevitably result in higher taxes. It was a nice approach by John McCain to refer to Joe the Plumber to emphasize McCain’s pro-family policies.

Overall, in a debate dominated by issues that are considered issues for Democrats, the Republican candidate John McCain showed himself to be in command on those issues with policies that are not the kind of bigger Government and higher taxes approach of Obama and the Democrats. However smooth Obama talks, McCain was superior on substance and controlled what was being said — for example, the discussion of vouchers and school choice in education. Imagne how much more knowledgeable John McCain would have shown himself to be had there been foreign policy issues on the table.

In contrast, I don’t know which was worse: listening to Obama’s effort to cast himself as something other than the rqadical socialist he is, or listening to FOX regular commentators after the debate saying what they did. Kristol has gone stupid after starting to write for the New York Times. Juan Williams is letting his skin color lead him to shill for Obama. Krauthammer was in an alternative universe. John McCain’s excellent performance deserved far, far better reviews. More sensibly, Drudge Report has 72% voting for McCain as the winner.

Phil Byler on October 16, 2008 at 8:10 AM

To JiangxiDad on October 16, 2008 at 7:49 AM, you make a good point about what matters to voters. As for the debates, I think that Karl Rove is right that there is so much you can do given the debate format. What John McCain could do, he did last night. All voters needed to do was listen to the substance.

Phil Byler on October 16, 2008 at 8:19 AM

Don’t let anyone try to tell you that John McCain did not win the last debate. John McCain did clearly win. It was the reaction on this site as the debate progressed.

It’s obvious that McCain bested Obama, but the real problem is that it won’t last. If McCain had gone for the jugular on the economy, he would have made an impression on voters that would stay with them until November. Unfortunately, he held back, which renders his victory in the debate virtually meaningless in the long run.

CherokeeJack on October 16, 2008 at 8:22 AM

Obama is not Kerry this guy is the real deal. Obama is not embarrassed of his Socialist ideals he is proud. Obama with a Democratic congress and senate is going to run pure Nitro into US engine and turn right into the wall. -Regulation (we exhale carbon dioxide to give you a clue to the unlimited options of carbon regulation)
-Taxes (Hey government don’t cut back they just take a raise)
-World welfare (remember poverty=terrorism argument?)
-defense gutting (who needs baby killers anyway or lets say it PC we need to give more welfare and buy more votes)
-helplessly watching allies get plowed in during useless negotiations (Georgia, Iraq, Stans, Ukraine, Lebanon, Israel, Baltics, Tiawan, Dijbuti, Gulf States)
- etc……

C-Low on October 16, 2008 at 12:28 AM

This is indeed what we’re in for, and I kept waiting for Sen. McCain to say so. Instead the doddering old fool couldn’t even define his own policies succinctly and clearly, much less tell the American people where Obambi was pulling the wool over their eyes, and how he’s such a danger to the Republic.

Those here who are point-counting and saying Sen. McCain ‘won’ are grasping at straws. The average viewer has no idea who is telling the truth and who is not. He’s going to pull the lever for the most convincing and articulate. John McCain is almost as stumble-tongued as George W. Bush. Makes me wonder what I’m doing risking vandalism with McCain/Palin bumper stickers and a yard sign.

I wish we had a better candidate. . .

Hope for a Bradley Effect.

MrLynn on October 16, 2008 at 8:29 AM

McCain did well but he needed better.

In such a controlled environment with a moderator what could he do beside stand up, grab Obama by the collar and deck him? One of Luntz sheep made a wise statement. Obama is articulate McCain not so much however, he wasn’t voting for a debater but a president. A smirky, shifty man who has questionable associates, distorted campaign ads and a vague or unknown background does not a president make. Sadly far too many of our people, and some who aren’t legal or alive, will pull the leaver because they are not informed but indoctrinated or have a sinister agenda.

wepeople on October 16, 2008 at 8:39 AM

wepeople on October 16, 2008 at 8:47 AM

Maybe all is not lost. – tru2tx on October 16, 2008 at 7:38 AM

It most certainly is not lost. McCain will win in November. Simple as that.

ManlyRash on October 16, 2008 at 9:30 AM

I am late to the discussion as I don’t have access to computer in the evening, but have been reading the pre-debate thread. Just so you know, my drink of choice is vodka & tonic and I watched the debate on the phone with my best conservative friend, who had her cocktail of choice and in the end I think we both passed out relatively pleased.

Willie on October 16, 2008 at 9:57 AM

in the end I think we both passed out relatively pleased. – Willie on October 16, 2008 at 9:57 AM

So I guess the debate wasn’t the only thing that featured a Big O, huh?

ManlyRash on October 16, 2008 at 10:10 AM

Not sure where ELSE to post this:
new RNC ad … likin’ it !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIZXQfEAHts

pambi on October 16, 2008 at 10:11 AM

I’m afraid I frightened the neighbors when I shreiked in rage as Obama laughed at McCain’s ACORN references and voter fraud.

At the train stop this morning, I was recounting this, and the lady I was talking to sai: “What’s ACORN”?

pseudonominus on October 16, 2008 at 10:34 AM

I’m afraid I frightened the neighbors when I shreiked in rage as Obama laughed at McCain’s ACORN references and voter fraud.
At the train stop this morning, I was recounting this, and the lady I was talking to sai: “What’s ACORN”?

pseudonominus on October 16, 2008 at 10:34 AM

Yeah, where’s the screen shot of that? Remember when Bush Sr. checked his watch or “W” smirked? Those images are scorched into the public memory. I wouldn’t be surprised if “Dear Leader’s” unfavorable moments like that aren’t scrubbed from the tape.

NightmareOnKStreet on October 16, 2008 at 1:49 PM

2nd lawsuit challenges Obama’s citizenship
Man demands state verify birth records or remove senator from ballots

Note: It is incumbent on ALL Secretaries of State in all of the United States to BOTH accurately verify Voters AND candidates. Barack Hussein Obama has sealed his “Hawaiian” birth records and also records in Kenya.

Failure to verify and certify qualification for ALL candidates in a general election by any Secretary of State may be a cause of action (dereliction of duty) and criminal charges may be filed.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78111

Also:

The Video that could cost Obama the election

http://www.nextgenerationcorp.com/NextGenBlog/?p=68

AdrianS on October 17, 2008 at 2:46 PM

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