Video: David Frum versus Rachel Maddow on civility

posted at 11:22 am on October 14, 2008 by Allahpundit

He claims he didn’t know what he was in for. Judging by his demeanor, I believe him. I’m not going to throw stones at Maddow for being partisan or for being snarky about it (especially since, unlike some people, she’s willing at least to have conservatives on her show), but I will chuck one at her for suddenly being a stickler about the difference between pointed criticism and hair-raising demonization. Her buddy Keith long ago crossed the line between the former and the latter. Given how often she’s appeared on his show and how chummy they seem to be, if she has any big problem with him for that, it’s escaped my attention.

As for the assertion that the nut who yelled “Kill him!” at the Palin rally was talking about Obama, go read Patterico.


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Is she wearing Keith’s suit?

fogw on October 14, 2008 at 11:26 AM

When did Fred Savage (Wonder Years, Working) start hosting a show on MCNBC?

BuckeyeSam on October 14, 2008 at 11:27 AM

she looks like a younger, skinnier, and more masucline Olbermann

YellowDawg on October 14, 2008 at 11:28 AM

I’ll remember how civil the lefties are the next time I watch their antics at an anti-everything rally.

Bush caricatures with a gun to his temple, Cheney pictured with his head cut-off, effigy burning, etc. etc.

The left has gone savage.

Bishop on October 14, 2008 at 11:30 AM

Frum is just getting started with his new constituency. Give him time…he’ll have all the left-wing Osama Obama-loving cant down in no time.

Who the hell cares about Maddow or Frum, AP? Or did you post this so you can warn everyone who makes comments about Maddow’s “masculinity” to shut up?

MrScribbler on October 14, 2008 at 11:31 AM

That’s Maddow on the left?

carbon_footprint on October 14, 2008 at 11:31 AM

Maddow’s quoting Bill Kristol now?

See what happens Bill when you change your position, thinkig you’ll come across as some kind of political genius after listening to rigged polling data generated to sway uninformed dummies?

fogw on October 14, 2008 at 11:32 AM

Who the hell cares about Maddow or Frum, AP? Or did you post this so you can warn everyone who makes comments about Maddow’s “masculinity” to shut up?

No, but now that you mention it, how about everyone laying off that crap? It makes for a little too much nuance in a thread about civility.

Allahpundit on October 14, 2008 at 11:33 AM

OK Maddow is taking this a little far IMO.

You can’t contorl crowds or people from saying anything, especially with what is going on.

So how can Maddow say it was palins fault. I am not sure, I hope she never gets in that situation.

upinak on October 14, 2008 at 11:33 AM

It’s difficult to get through a Maddow post, and I wish you wouldn’t bother with her. She’s such a pathetic, tortured creature that every comment focuses on her inside-outness, and we rarely get at the point of her commentary.

Posts featuring Boy George videos would be little different. She’s just too weird.

On topic: her politics are equally pathetic and tortured, and little heed might be paid to the opinions of someone who occupies the political space just left of Ahmedinejad.

Jaibones on October 14, 2008 at 11:34 AM

Did she spill coffee on her blouse?

Angry Dumbo on October 14, 2008 at 11:35 AM

Jaibones on October 14, 2008 at 11:34 AM

I don’t know. I didn’t see it so much like that this time around. Yeah she is odd at times, but she wasn’t being totally off.

But when she more or less accused Sarah about someone saying in the crowd “kill him” makes me wonder wtf she is talking about.

upinak on October 14, 2008 at 11:36 AM

It’s difficult to get through a Maddow post, and I wish you wouldn’t bother with her. She’s such a pathetic, tortured creature that every comment focuses on her inside-outness, and we rarely get at the point of her commentary.

Yeah, despite my repeated admonitions about it. Why people don’t who can’t resist just don’t avoid these posts is beyond me.

I admit to grading her on a curve, though, just because she’s so much more pleasant than Olbermann.

Allahpundit on October 14, 2008 at 11:36 AM

Frum made him look quite stupid.

Oh, see, that was humor, and it’s how I like to talk about politics, I hope he isn’t offended.

benrand on October 14, 2008 at 11:37 AM

Funny how some guy can yell out “kill him” and it may be referring to Osama and not Obama…but regardless, just bring up dKos and the dems going to their convention. More brutal statements are said everyday on that site then all the campaign “yellers” combined.
Checkmate…

right2bright on October 14, 2008 at 11:39 AM

It makes for a little too much nuance in a thread about civility.

Allahpundit on October 14, 2008 at 11:33 AM

Civility, Maddow and MSNBC. Strange bedfellows.

fogw on October 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM

As snarky as she is, she is better then Olbermann that’s for sure.

Hilts on October 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM

She gets to skate on this issue, but she focused on what supporters were doing, whereas he focused on what she was doing. Had he played the same game she was, he would have had so many counterpoints.

And he’s right. If she wants serious topics to be discussed, the she should start with herself.

Esthier on October 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM

I do think Maddow’s more natural medium is radio…just saying.

d1carter on October 14, 2008 at 11:42 AM

What makes this so maddening to me is that Rachel Maddow can make a reasoned argument for the democrat side, but chooses not to. Anyone remember her thoughtful discussions with Tucker Carlson? It really was a good exchange between the two. Unfortunately, she has taken the Olbermann approach, opting for cheap shots and “gotcha” moments instead of a lively, respectful debate between two intelligent reasonable people.

Rachel Maddow is betther than this. Keith Olbemann isn’t, but Rachel should be ashamed of the direction of her new show.

Matticus Finch on October 14, 2008 at 11:43 AM

Plus, isn’t this the exact same argument O’Reilly keeps making about posters at Kos or at HuffPo?

This is such bs.

Esthier on October 14, 2008 at 11:43 AM

I admit to grading her on a curve, though, just because she’s so much more pleasant than Olbermann.

Allahpundit on October 14, 2008 at 11:36 AM

THANK YOU for NOT putting a Whiner-mann post on here. I will take Maddow anyday!

upinak on October 14, 2008 at 11:43 AM

Ugh. Now we can’t even comment on people’s looks? It’s not like you don’t do it all the time or link to stories b/c someone is butt ugly. And women on television are the brunt of it all the effin time. But, because this one is a lesbian we can’s say anything. How obamaish of you!

Blake on October 14, 2008 at 11:45 AM

Hmmmmm

wise_man on October 14, 2008 at 11:46 AM

Blake on October 14, 2008 at 11:45 AM

Yeah, it’s pretty oppressive around here. Maybe you should find a new site to comment on, huh?

Allahpundit on October 14, 2008 at 11:46 AM

She makes no bones about being a Demo hack, does she?

29Victor on October 14, 2008 at 11:47 AM

Where do those hideous “Sarah Palin is a C-word” tee shirts fall into Ms. Maddow’s world view of liberals?

On a side note, it really is unnerving that MSNBC continues to run their flag graphic upside down. What in the heck is up with that?

tru2tx on October 14, 2008 at 11:47 AM

ew, she is like a female Keith Olberman. No more please.

ctmom on October 14, 2008 at 11:47 AM

Her argument about equivelance, asking if she is as bad as the supposed death threats, doesn’t hold water. Her show existed before such things were, as did her tone…what was her excuse then?

I think she’s funny enough, but if she thinks she’s heightening the discourse or lifting the conversation, she’s mistaken.

StoutRepublican on October 14, 2008 at 11:48 AM

I admit to grading her on a curve, though, just because she’s so much more pleasant than Olbermann.

Allahpundit on October 14, 2008 at 11:36 AM

I would argue the same about Rosie, Madonna, Rosanne and even the comic who argued Palin should be gang raped (last one’s a joke for the humor-impaired).

In all honesty, at least from this one, single clip, I’d say Maddow is more like Laura Ingraham, obviously partisan and often blind to her own party’s weaknesses (though my natural bias would say Laura is much less blind and often points out her own party’s issues), but not overly rude or screeching.

People who disagree with either will find both impossible to listen to, but those who agree with either will find them to be more fair than the MSM and perfectly brilliant.

Esthier on October 14, 2008 at 11:48 AM

I do think Maddow’s more natural medium is radio…just saying.

d1carter on October 14, 2008 at 11:42 AM

I kind of agree about that. I really like her radio show, I listen to her AAR show about every day. Still, I rather have a real voice on the left on TV.

mycowardice on October 14, 2008 at 11:49 AM

I admit to grading her on a curve, though, just because she’s so much more pleasant than Olbermann.

Allahpundit on October 14, 2008 at 11:36 AM

That must be quite a curve. She has a problem when two people in public life have minds of their own. Since when have a president and vice-president agreed on everything?

On a side note, it really is unnerving that MSNBC continues to run their flag graphic upside down. What in the heck is up with that?

tru2tx on October 14, 2008 at 11:47 AM

Maybe MSNBC’s ratings are in a state of emergency.

manwithblackhat on October 14, 2008 at 11:49 AM

Frum signs up for an interview w/ Maddow and he’s surprised by the tone of the show? I don’t keep track of David Frum media appearances, but does he really think he’s getting this airtime on MSNBC with an Air America host because of his scary-deep thoughts on Afghanistan?

His lack of preparation is either a sign of sloppiness or naivete. Either way, it doesn’t speak well to his situational awareness when he dumps on Palin and wonders why conservatives are upset with him.

pmm on October 14, 2008 at 11:49 AM

I started to watch this thing, but when I saw the Grand Old Panic sign behind her, I new all I needed to know and got out before I lost my mind.

TimothyJ on October 14, 2008 at 11:49 AM

She’s better than Olberman. That’s like saying herpes is better than cancer… but still.

Sugar Land on October 14, 2008 at 11:50 AM

BuckeyeSam on October 14, 2008 at 11:27 AM

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

D2Boston on October 14, 2008 at 11:50 AM

Maybe you should find a new site to comment on, huh?

Allahpundit on October 14, 2008 at 11:46 AM

Uh, oh. Now you’re being fascist by suggesting he find another website he’d enjoy more. That’s silencing him!!!!

/s

Esthier on October 14, 2008 at 11:50 AM

Is there not one conservative who when asked over and over and over about “kill him” at a McCain rally can’t reply with “Well, explain the ‘Sarah Palin is a C*NT t-shirts’, Rachel.”

FRUM, YOU ARE A WHINY WET SPONGE.

Marcus on October 14, 2008 at 11:53 AM

Funny how some guy can yell out “kill him” and it may be referring to Osama and not Obama…but regardless, just bring up dKos and the dems going to their convention. More brutal statements are said everyday on that site then all the campaign “yellers” combined.
Checkmate…

right2bright on October 14, 2008 at 11:39 AM

Funny how one guy among thousands yelling “kill him” proves that McCain is somehow evil and gets brought up over and over and over again, but Obama sitting for 20 years listening to a preacher say things like the that U.S. deserved 9/11 is meaningless and off limits.

Who is more responsible? The one speaking when someone in the audience shouts out something hateful or the one sitting in the audience listening to the speaker shout hateful things?

29Victor on October 14, 2008 at 11:53 AM

I admit to grading her on a curve, though, just because she’s so much more pleasant than Olbermann.

She only seems pleasant. She spouts the party line and drives me crazy the way she laughs while she’s talking when she isn’t saying anything clever.

Can I ask why so protective of Maddow? I can kind of understand the instinct, because I used to chuckle at her look until I found out she was a lesbian. Then I felt bad for having noticed. Yet isn’t it a kind of discrimination to not be able to talk about a look she chooses to have? We talk about other people, don’t we?

MayBee on October 14, 2008 at 11:55 AM

Yeah, it’s pretty oppressive around here. Maybe you should find a new site to comment on, huh?

Allahpundit on October 14, 2008 at 11:46 AM

Don’t hold your breath. If you want to stop me from commenting, you’ll have to ban me. I note you did not refute the double standard.

Blake on October 14, 2008 at 11:56 AM

Still, I rather have a real voice on the left on TV.

mycowardice on October 14, 2008 at 11:49 AM

Could happpen some day. Hang in there.

fogw on October 14, 2008 at 11:56 AM

Funny how one guy among thousands yelling “kill him” proves that McCain is somehow evil and gets brought up over and over and over again, but Obama sitting for 20 years listening to a preacher say things like the that U.S. deserved 9/11 is meaningless and off limits.

Isn’t the guilt by association game fun!!!

It’s amazing how a party can make a campaign point about associations and then shoot themselves in the foot at the same time.

2 steps forward, 2 steps back.

cornfedbubba on October 14, 2008 at 11:57 AM

cornfedbubba on October 14, 2008 at 11:57 AM

Yeah and the logic of the left of comparing Mt Everest to a tic turd.

Hmm, one comparison speaks to decades of association with the most bigoted of pulpit speakers, years of association with a terrorist and the other is a stranger yelling in a crowd.

Nice one.

hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 12:01 PM

Why pretend that the left is interested at all in fairness or civility. That is just a bat they use to beat the Right over the head with. They will kick you in the yarbles and then start crying that you pulled their hair. They just want to win.

ronsfi on October 14, 2008 at 12:02 PM

It’s difficult to get through a Maddow post, and I wish you wouldn’t bother with her.

Jaibones on October 14, 2008 at 11:34 AM

pure unadulterated genius

The Race Card on October 14, 2008 at 12:04 PM

Is she wearing Keith’s suit?

fogw on October 14, 2008 at 11:26 AM

When did Fred Savage (Wonder Years, Working) start hosting a show on MCNBC?

BuckeyeSam on October 14, 2008 at 11:27 AM

she looks like a younger, skinnier, and more masucline Olbermann

YellowDawg on October 14, 2008 at 11:28 AM

What exactly are you guys doing, trying to make her point for her? None of your remarks address her premise or statements.

The Race Card on October 14, 2008 at 12:07 PM

It’s amazing how a party can make a campaign point about associations and then shoot themselves in the foot at the same time.

cornfedbubba on October 14, 2008 at 11:57 AM

I guess you don’t know the difference between unaffiliated supporters and actually associations.

That’s pretty much what I expect from an Obama supporter.

Esthier on October 14, 2008 at 12:11 PM

MayBee on October 14, 2008 at 11:55 AM

I’m guessing that you absolutely did not “feel bad for notiicing.” But since you think it’s important to this discussion, please explain how her “look” and sexuality affect your life or her remarks made to David Frum.

Do you know anything else about her other than the fact that she is a lesbian? Do you like being judged for nothing more than your race? Gender? Proximity to Cromagnon Man on the evolutionary ladder?

The Race Card on October 14, 2008 at 12:12 PM

Well played, The Race Card.

MayBee on October 14, 2008 at 12:13 PM

BTW, if you ever heard the anti-military rhetoric Maddow used on Air-America that she for obvious reasons holds back on national TV, you guys wouldn’t even be having a discussion about her sense of fairness. It doesn’t exist.

hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 12:14 PM

I don’t watch the show, but I had (or thought I had) a rough idea of what it was like.

This how out of touch our friend, Frum, is. How the hell do you not know that Maddow is an Olby protoge?

CanadianGuy on October 14, 2008 at 12:15 PM

The Race Card on October 14, 2008 at 12:07 PM

Her ‘premise’ is “Grand Old Panic”. This is a completely worthless, absolute waste of time to even attempt to address her statements. It’s like speaking to someone about cheese, and they keep bringing up that the best tasting cheese is from the moon. To continue would to be to have no more more purpose than an exercise in entertaining their mental illness.

wise_man on October 14, 2008 at 12:16 PM

Allahpundit on October 14, 2008 at 11:33 AM

Rachel Maddow is thoughtful and considerate, the best the left has to offer, a gem and a pearl. Please give us more of her AP. We promise not to mock or belittle her so as not to give the new Obamasturmgroupenfuehrer regime cause to close down HA and impound its files (containing our email addresses).

Akzed on October 14, 2008 at 12:18 PM

Where is the video of someone yelling “kill him”? In this day and age with cameras and microphones everywhere, how come it isn’t on tape or audio? Because, although anything is possible, it probably didn’t happen. It is a myth created by the barry campaign and the toadies in the fascist propaganda machine are repeating it so that it will become part of the public conciousness.

I am very pessimistic about not only the future of this country but of the world. This disease that has infected the West is suicidal and will take us all down.

peacenprosperity on October 14, 2008 at 12:19 PM

Rachel Maddow is thoughtful and considerate

She’s smarmy, dishonest and nasty and sees the world through the lense of her self loathing. You watch her, I know what mental illness looks like already.

peacenprosperity on October 14, 2008 at 12:20 PM

They are trying to our high-hand each other.
BTW…she has Frum on because he is attacking Republicans.
All the attacks against Bush are talking truth to power.
If Obama wins, prepare to be silence and villified if you speak out against him by bullys like Maddow.

RobCon on October 14, 2008 at 12:23 PM

Frum criticizing someone for sneering? HA! That’s rich!

He wants more civility, wants to raise the tone, yet states on his blog that our VP candidate can’t speak 3 coherent consecutive words on complex topis (strongly insinuating she’s dumb).

Not to defend Rachel Maddow – at all – Frum nneds to start practicing what he preaches. When he can elevate the tone and civility of criticism of his own side THEN you can lecture others. Until then, he’s no better than Rachel Maddow.

thirteen28 on October 14, 2008 at 12:23 PM

What exactly are you guys doing, trying to make her point for her? None of your remarks address her premise or statements.

The Race Card on October 14, 2008 at 12:07 PM

No. I’ve heard her left-wing propaganda enough times to know where she will stand on most issues. I hate her guts based on her opinions, not her sexual orientation.

Can’t a guy make a fashion statement?

fogw on October 14, 2008 at 12:26 PM

Funny how one guy among thousands yelling “kill him” proves that McCain is somehow evil and gets brought up over and over and over again, but Obama sitting for 20 years listening to a preacher say things like the that U.S. deserved 9/11 is meaningless and off limits.

And of course Frum didn’t counter with that and probably didn’t even think to, which is quite revealing in and of itself.

thirteen28 on October 14, 2008 at 12:26 PM

Do you know anything else about her other than the fact that she is a lesbian?

Race Card, why do you act like she’s making serious-important points that we’re all ignoring? The point of the segment was to highlight fissures in the GOP. As near as I can tell, her ‘premises’ that we’re proving here are as follows:
1. She uses humor to express political views, and that’s OK. Except when somebody else does it.
2. Incitement to murder is unacceptable political discourse. Except for “Death of an American President”, that’s just art.
3. Politicians are responsible for every supporter’s utterance. Except when they aren’t–then it’s ‘guilt by association’.

What am I missing? And why should I try to ‘refute’ an argument that boils down to Democrate Good/Republican bad?

pmm on October 14, 2008 at 12:28 PM

Come on you guys, it’s The Race Card.

MayBee on October 14, 2008 at 12:30 PM

Wow, I never saw her before.

Definitely lesbian of the Top variety.

Just another MSNBC Obama/leftist hack it appears.

Frum is another NR effeminate latte Republican who we don’t need.

Sapwolf on October 14, 2008 at 12:35 PM

pmm on October 14, 2008 at 12:28 PM

Don’t forget the double standard with Foley and Tim Mahoney. It was 24/7 coverage during the Foley Scandal and now crickets with Mahoney. Thing is, Rahm Emanual is in on the cover-up with Mahoney.

carbon_footprint on October 14, 2008 at 12:37 PM

Rachel Maddow appears to be a vile fellow who is not a fan of anything conservative, including Christianity. Rachel Maddow on Sarah Palin and religion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amQF3UXzHVc

Listen up Manly-man Maddow, even the American Psychological Association (APA) has revised its statement to read that there is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual is homosexual. There is no proof WHATSOEVER that homosexuality is anything more than a disordered behavioral choice. There is no proof WHATSOEVER that the behavior is genetic or innate in any way.

http://www.narth.com/docs/deemphasizes.html

sinsing on October 14, 2008 at 12:38 PM

I admit to grading her on a curve, though, just because she’s so much more pleasant than Olbermann.

Allahpundit on October 14, 2008 at 11:36 AM

Heh. Affirmative Action for leftists who don’t routinely refer to Bush as Hitler. Who says the right doesn’t have a heart.

Gotta admit, anything that keeps Olbermann off of my screen is a good thing…bordering on a great thing.

Jaibones on October 14, 2008 at 12:42 PM

Combine the two posts, on the criticism Frum received from NRO readers over his Palin statement and his incredible lack of knowledge about MSNBC’s prime-time lineup, and you get a pundit who may not be disparaging the VP nominee to get better invites to D.C. and New York coctail parties, but definitely someone who is totally clueless about the venom out there on a left and in the media in general outside of 1-2 outlets.

He cites Palin’s lower approval ratings as justification for his criticism, but seems to think it’s still 1992, where the attacks on GHWB were obvious, but never to the point where you could have a cable news channel going 100 percent anti-Palin for the final 60 days of the campaign. Instead of being arrogantly defensive, Frum should be questioning whether or not he’s missing something in the big picture when he can go on the Rachel Maddow show and actually believe he’s going to be part of a relatively balanced discussion.

jon1979 on October 14, 2008 at 12:48 PM

Do you know anything else about her other than the fact that she is a lesbian? Do you like being judged for nothing more than your race? Gender? Proximity to Cromagnon Man on the evolutionary ladder?

The Race Card on October 14, 2008 at 12:12 PM

I don’t mind at all. Truly, I do not mind at all.

1) Yes, she is a leftist HACK. I am a conservative hack.
2) Yes, I’m a mutt. Judge away. I couldn’t care less what my ethnicity is.
3) Yes, I’m a man and proud of it.
4) Yes, I’m proud that my Cro-Magnon ancestors were strong enough to hunt meat and rise to the top of the food chain so that I might ask a question like “Who created all this and did God truly become man for me?”

Sapwolf on October 14, 2008 at 12:50 PM

Frum should be questioning whether or not he’s missing something in the big picture when he can go on the Rachel Maddow show and actually believe he’s going to be part of a relatively balanced discussion.

jon1979 on October 14, 2008 at 12:48 PM

If his educational pedigree made him as intelligent as he and others in his crowd would have you believe, there would be no need to question whether he’s missing something.

thirteen28 on October 14, 2008 at 12:51 PM

Do you know hat it is like to work at a really PC company or just about any college campus? If your a lefty you can be as nasty as you want however if you respond with a fraction of the same sarcasm if can cost you your job.
That is what Maddow and Olby want for the general public.
Obama and Pelosi may give it to them.

RobCon on October 14, 2008 at 12:55 PM

If your a lefty you can be as nasty as you want however if you respond with a fraction of the same sarcasm if can cost you your job.
That is what Maddow and Olby want for the general public.
Obama and Pelosi may give it to them.

RobCon on October 14, 2008 at 12:55 PM

Let’s not let Obama and Pelosi take all the credit – there are plenty of surrender monkeys right of center would would give it to them just as well.

thirteen28 on October 14, 2008 at 12:58 PM

I admit to grading her on a curve, though, just because she’s so much more pleasant than Olbermann.

Allahpundit on October 14, 2008 at 11:36 AM

Dude, that is saying much. I can think of a few third world dictators more pleasant the Olbermann…

liquidflorian on October 14, 2008 at 1:00 PM

Do you know hat it is like to work at a really PC company or just about any college campus? If your a lefty you can be as nasty as you want however if you respond with a fraction of the same sarcasm if can cost you your job.
That is what Maddow and Olby want for the general public.
Obama and Pelosi may give it to them.

RobCon on October 14, 2008 at 12:55 PM

You just described California, especially the San Francisco Bay Area. You WILL be fired for any Republican or Conservative expressions. And yes, the libs can say anything they want.

I love Alabama. Love it.

Sapwolf on October 14, 2008 at 1:00 PM

she looks like a younger, skinnier, and more masucline Olbermann

Ah, but has anyone actually seen them together at the same time?

I R A Darth Aggie on October 14, 2008 at 1:08 PM

Who is that wannabe reporter?

Is pMSNBC hiring gender benders now?

Kini on October 14, 2008 at 1:09 PM

Wow, David Frum makin the rounds on MSDNC! Bet ya Peggy Noonan got him the gig.

james23 on October 14, 2008 at 1:12 PM

she looks like a younger, skinnier, and more masucline Olbermann

Ah, but has anyone actually seen them together at the same time?

I R A Darth Aggie on October 14, 2008 at 1:08 PM

Wilkow is playing this clip right now; He likes calling Maddow, “meaty fingers” Maddow. He’s trying for “worst person in the world”…

liquidflorian on October 14, 2008 at 1:13 PM

Was it my imagination or did Maddow come up with the “equivalence” thing out of nowhere.

Did Frum say they were equivalent?

She’s being a weasel.

John on October 14, 2008 at 1:18 PM

Ok I give Maddow some credit for bringing a conservative on(Pat B) so what? but David Frum is not an influential conservative and honestly not that talented.
You give way to much time to these losers David Frum, David Brooks, christopher Hitchins. Losers all. You may admire or attach some importance to them but we don’t.
This is not newsweek or esquire. I thought HA was a conservative sort of media thing.
Michelle Malkin, Mark Levin, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Robert Novak
These people are actually conservative. Frum not so much,

kangjie on October 14, 2008 at 1:50 PM

When will Frum shut up?

He clearly is not clear headed and not aware of the facts, and that Maddow is a shill for the left, and that she is an attack dog for Obama and the left.

Frum played into her hands and attacked his own party, but said not one single thing about the left/Obama supporters holding the lion’s share of hatred, violence, threats, disrespect, and the works.

Furthermore, Maddow puts too much emphasis on “threats of violence” on the side of Republicans. There is virtually NO example of violence or threats thereof in Republican rallies, but there are ample examples of the left involved in thuggishness, arrogance, violence, vandalism, verbal threats, disrespect, foul language, etc.

Add to that the fact that, if and when there is even an imitation or assumed verbal foul, the left has been known to plant operatives in order to incite animosity and to paint conservatives as thugs, when, clearly, there are few to none.

William2006 on October 14, 2008 at 1:52 PM

Finally, someone stands up to St. Rachel.

chiefeditor on October 14, 2008 at 1:56 PM

Conservative critics of McCain are truly the useful idiots of our time. Frum is the biggest of these idiots. If he was Bush’s speechwriter, it would explain many of Bush’s crappy speeches early on.

Aren’t morons like Madcow in favor of stuff like taking North Korea off the terrorist watch list, but only if a Dem does it? Don’t see her giving a shit about “Palin is a c@nt” T shirts either.

Speedwagon82 on October 14, 2008 at 2:02 PM

Yes, I’m a mutt. Judge away. I couldn’t care less what my ethnicity is.

No matter how much we agree or disagree now or in the future, that is a golden nugget. Awesome.

I work with a reformed gang member who calls himself a “mutt.” NO ID is his ID.

The Race Card on October 14, 2008 at 2:04 PM

she’s playful in her tones, and she makes jokes about the issues – Sure, that’s what we call it now to stretch the truth to the snapping point for radical partisan purposes, making jokes? Does she think she is doing the daily show? Because that is all jokes, with comedy writers etc where they can just make stuff up based very loosely on news.

Hers is supposed to be a serious news analysis & commentary show..

saus on October 14, 2008 at 2:15 PM

He is hard to take. I couldn’t listen to more the 30seconds of that

Kjeil on October 14, 2008 at 2:19 PM

Ok, I actually listened to it the whole way through and he did get to her a little bit right at the end.
He said, she and Mccains supposed harsh campaign had a symbiotic relatioship. She is part of the problem.
He did debate her in a cheesehead liberal sort of way but you never know, maybe it takes a liberal to convince another liberal.

kangjie on October 14, 2008 at 3:10 PM

Hey! You know what? That Rachel Maddow person looks like a lesbian!

Just to be fair, that David Frum person looks like a lesbian also!

Vince on October 14, 2008 at 3:30 PM

Where is the video of someone yelling “kill him”? In this day and age with cameras and microphones everywhere, how come it isn’t on tape or audio? peacenprosperity

So there is no evidence it was yelled much less evidence that it was a McCain supporter who yelled it. But Maddow is all uppity about what seems to be an alternate reality. Couriouier and couriouser.

snaggletoothie on October 14, 2008 at 3:36 PM

Sorry tried to watch it but can’t stomach the cloud of noxious smug emanating from Maddow’s perpetually perplexed facial expressions. Used to be able to watch MSNBC or CNN just to get a liberal perspective however, it is always the same predictable blather, won’t even put those channels on now. Thank goodness for the Internet let the old news media die.

Tobias2012 on October 14, 2008 at 3:50 PM

SHE is making an argument of equivalence! That every member of the public is as equally responsible, influential to the national discourse and a national audience as a cable news TV program. She is excusing her bad behavior with the fact that people yell things from the audience. If that’s the argument she wants to make, then she has to agree that everything said on the streets of Berkeley and at anti-war demonstrations, and on that T-shirt that called Sarah Palin a c***, is the direct responsibility or Barack Obama. This is a perfect example of how liberals are intellectually dishonest to score cheap political points. She KNOWS McCain would never support a violent epithet directed towards Obama, yet she argues as if it is a fact.

pleaseandthankyou on October 14, 2008 at 5:32 PM

Could happpen some day. Hang in there.

fogw on October 14, 2008 at 11:56 AM

I think Rachel qualifies as a voice for the left, no?

mycowardice on October 14, 2008 at 5:58 PM

I’m absolutely outraged at these crocodile tears from the Democrats after seeing 8 years of Bush-burning in effigy in the streets, in bookstores, and in the media.

Fuck them.

Summer on October 14, 2008 at 7:18 PM

Well, at least Rachel has the guts to invite people on with differing view points. I’ll give her that.

SoulGlo on October 14, 2008 at 7:54 PM

Some of the comments people like to make on this and other sites proves Frum’s point.

arizonateacher on October 14, 2008 at 8:29 PM

I loved the reference to the GOP Intelligentsia. Who made up that list? Where are Ann Coulter, Justice Scalia, Mark Steyn, Ben Stein…

Who gave the uberlibs the right to define us?

I get so tired of our side accepting the premise laid out by the left, and then doing a terrible job of defending our position. Like the question, Is this the first time you have cheated on your spouse? No good answer.

InTheBellyoftheBeast on October 14, 2008 at 8:46 PM

cloud of noxious smug emanating from Maddow’s perpetually perplexed facial expressions…. Thank goodness for the Internet let the old news media die.

Tobias2012 on October 14, 2008 at 3:50 PM

Oh please let it die! Anyone have a stake big enough to drive through the heart. Ooppps, forgot we are supposed to be engaged in civil discourse. I’ll start when they start.

InTheBellyoftheBeast on October 14, 2008 at 8:50 PM

i watched the link and listened carefully,

after thoroughanalysis i have come to two, possible conclusions

boxers or briefs?

Sonosam on October 15, 2008 at 12:58 AM