Self-determination dead in New Jersey?
posted at 8:20 am on October 14, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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In a season of crazy polls, one in New Jersey stands out for its revelation of obtuseness. The Monmouth University/Gannett New Jersey poll shows that almost a majority of adults want to leave the Garden State, thanks to the high cost of living and government. Apparently the 49% who object to these costs don’t realize that they can vote for a more responsive — and less costly — state government:
Even New Jerseyans can’t stand living in New Jersey, according to a new poll that said nearly half of adults residing in the Garden State want to pull up stakes.
The Monmouth University/Gannett New Jersey Poll, released Wednesday, found 49 percent of those polled would rather live somewhere else.
New Jersey already is suffering from an image problem and bears the brunt of jokes because of its corruption and pollution problems. But 58 percent of those residents polled said the heavy financial burden of just living in the state is no laughing matter, and that’s why they want to leave.
Poll participants cited high property taxes (28 percent), the cost of living (19 percent), state taxes (5 percent) and housing costs (6 percent) as the main reasons they want out. The poll also found that 51 percent of those who expressed a desire to leave planned to do so, with adults under the age of 50 making between $50,000 and $100,000 the most likely to flee.
“If you have the ability to leave and you don’t see any possibility for change with the way the state is run — and that’s the No. 1 issue here — you have to vote with your feet,” said Patrick Murray, director of the Monmouth University Polling Institute.
That’s simply not true. In places like the old Soviet Union, Zimbabwe, and the DPRK, people have to vote with their feet because they don’t have a meaningful vote otherwise. In America, people can vote with their ballots.
If New Jersey government has gotten so out of control that a majority of adults no longer want to live there, the less costly alternative would be to vote out the current government and try a new direction. Organize for different candidates. Try a couple of recall petitions to get the attention of the political class. Start pushing back on tax hikes and bond issues.
I’m actually sympathetic to the impulse. I left California for a better job opportunity eleven years ago and managed to avoid the debacle of the current budget deficit, which is three times greater than Minnesota’s entire annual state budget. However, I also know people who leave here for less-costly states, and at least some of them are the people who sported “Happy to Pay for a Better Minnesota” bumper stickers on their cars. If people want less-costly living, then they need to recognize that government isn’t a charity organization and push for smaller, less costly government instead of demanding government solutions to every problem and then getting itchy feet when the costs hit home. Pretty soon, there won’t be any place to run.
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Good commentary, Ed. People from the Northeast have been voting with their feet, and coming to places like Texas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia for decades now. Guess where all the growth is, and who is not suffering from the slowdown so badly? Guess who has the least business-hostile environment?
bikermailman on October 14, 2008 at 8:24 AM
Voting with your feet is so much more effective than voting for the lesser of two evils. Leaving a poorly run state not only removes your income from their tax rolls but actually gets attention that the secret ballot and loud complaining just can’t match. Too bad the Federal tax rate follows you no matter where you go.
Browncoatone on October 14, 2008 at 8:28 AM
As a resident of this wonderful state, I will tell you my husband and I looking to leave. We have tried but the corruption is so entrenched and so deep, you’re spitting into the wind. Look at the Torricelli/Lautenberg nonsense. The corruption goes down to the local level. Should someone try and buck the system, the end up ruined. We’ve watched it happen.
red131 on October 14, 2008 at 8:28 AM
We are hoping to have a ballot box revolution here in Massachusetts.
My outlook is gloomy, but I will vote Yes on 1.
fluffy on October 14, 2008 at 8:30 AM
Especially when “god” takes over.
Darth Executor on October 14, 2008 at 8:30 AM
Um, you ever think of the political corruption controlling things there? Newark, Jersey City, AC…Dems control those towns.
Voting doesn’t matter when it’s rigged, and when Republicans are as liberal as Jon Corzine.
benrand on October 14, 2008 at 8:30 AM
HA!
You want to talk about political corruption?
Come on out to Illinois sometime, home of B.O., and you will see political corruption on an epic scope and scale that would make the corrupted political officials of New Jersey look like third-string rank amateurs.
pilamaye on October 14, 2008 at 8:35 AM
Ted Nugent was on Hannity last night bemoaning the economic destruction of his home state, Michigan, from his new one, Texas, as a reason not to vote for Dems. Many states are on that same road. NJ isn’t alone, or first. But apparently the majority of its voters, like Michigan’s former voters, can’t see what they’re doing. One of the dangers of socialism is it’s initial appeal. It’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Expecting people to see that without being specifically told is evidently asking too much. Perhaps McCain and Palin can warn people of their actions before it’s too late for a few more states.
JiangxiDad on October 14, 2008 at 8:36 AM
And let’s not forget the liberal activist judges who overturn propositions that get voted in.
Disturb the Universe on October 14, 2008 at 8:37 AM
I am here on Long Island NY.
Honestly I do not think that poll is accurate. I bet it is higher amount who want to leave.
Nearly everyone I know wants to leave NY. We are having an age drain here. The young cannot make a go of it because of the cost of living. The elderly leave because of the heavy property tax burden and the high cost of utilities. Come to think of it I have heard of Long Islanders leaving NY for NJ because it is more affordable.
Politics is such a mess. I am not sure what the NY state GOP does but they certainly do not challenge the status quo. I do not see any ballot revolt happening any time soon.
peterargus on October 14, 2008 at 8:37 AM
New Jersey is going to be pushed out of the top ten in the 2010 census. Have a look:
http://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2000/briefs/phc-t2/tables/tab01.pdf
It will be overtaken by Georgia and North Carolina, and maybe by Virginia as well.
Folks, it’s not just the weather down here. I grew up in Chicago, and July here in Atlanta is every bit as miserable as February in the Windy City, although it’s on the other temperature extreme. People simply don’t want to live up North because A) high taxes, as Ed has mentioned, and B) unions up in those states make it too damned difficult to do anything.
radjah shelduck on October 14, 2008 at 8:39 AM
When everyone abandons Michigan, maybe people can migrate there and start it over–sort of a new Utah for conservatives.
JiangxiDad on October 14, 2008 at 8:41 AM
There is a group of people who probably say they would like to leave but don’t. People who in one way or another are dependent upon the State of New Jersey. No wonder the tax burden is so high, they basically are paying people to stay there. If you make an honest living that can be made somewhere else you’d be nuts to stick around.
MargaretMN on October 14, 2008 at 8:42 AM
Fluffy
I was in Mass over the Labor Day weekend. There was League of Women Voter booth that was openly campaigning for a NO vote.
I thought the League couldn’t have any positions?
peterargus on October 14, 2008 at 8:42 AM
Oh, let me amend my post by reminding you to check out the entire chart I linked. Hmmm… sure North Dakota has a tiny growth rate, but that’s still growth. What is the one place that actually LOST population between 1990 and 2000? Can anybody say “Pitifully poor government”?
radjah shelduck on October 14, 2008 at 8:43 AM
LI here too. IMO, Pataki and his rule of Republicanism-lite, and working with the dem legislature destroyed the Rep. party here for a decade or more. His pres. run lasted about a day. Oh, and about people wanting to leave, it’s getting hard to find any who were born here.
JiangxiDad on October 14, 2008 at 8:44 AM
New Jersey, coming soon to a country near you!!
pretty soon this poll will be about the entire USA…and there will be about as much luck reforming the country as t here is NJ or chicago or detroit or new orleans or you get the picture…
right4life on October 14, 2008 at 8:44 AM
Your kind words are much appreciated, Ed. Unfortunately, New Jersey is beyond redemption and outside the pale of hope.
This state will eventually descend into the hell of economic apartheid in which the uber-wealthy elites, residing on their estates in Somerset, Morris and northern Bergen counties hold court over a proletarian fiefdom of welfare recipients, illegals, and minimum-wage drones.
This state will turn darker shades of blue, but not a blue reminiscent of the sky, rather, the color one turns when being strangled to death. Ironic, when you consider that New Jersey was one of the central battlefields of our war for independence.
ManlyRash on October 14, 2008 at 8:45 AM
I’ve always believed that if everyone was given full and free access to all the information they needed in order to cast an informed vote, the numbers would be more like 70-30, or even 80-20 in favour of conservative policies and candidates, rather than always hovering around the 50-50 mark. This survey seems to back up that thesis.
The instincts of most sensible people are conservative, but the left controls the message via the MSM and education, and that evens things up, and in the US at the moment it’s tipping the balance in favour of the left. People who would like to vote for conservatives are always being told that conservative policies are unjust, that the politicians are mean or evil, and that ‘centre-left’ policies will provide everything they want and make them feel good about voting for those policies.
The coalition of manipulative elites, an army of public servants who depend on big government for their job, and the welfare-addicted underclass those two groups have created will be enough to keep the left competitive, and even give them power, until conservatives start to fight back in the areas of education and the media.
Others have written about this more eloquently, but that’s the best I can do in a hurry!
EnglishMike on October 14, 2008 at 8:46 AM
Thank God for blogs.
Sites like this one, Drudge, CNSnews, etc., are the ONLY way I get real news.
The people of NJ should do the same. They would learn the truth about their pols and be able to make informed decisions, unlike the sheeple on the left.
madmonkphotog on October 14, 2008 at 8:47 AM
That’s the truth. once you go blue, it’s too late for you. People in deep blue states just don’t want to try anything else. They feel dirty by even thinking about voting conservative. They have been conditioned too far and as a result assume that a bad life in a given state certainly cannot be because of bad liberal policies.
Grafted on October 14, 2008 at 8:47 AM
How about calling it Galt’s Gulch?
JiangxiDad on October 14, 2008 at 8:47 AM
And what happens next? These people relocate to a new state and proceed to drag it into the dirt by voting Democrat and bringing the same idiocy of the place they moved from, to the place they moved to. Its a similar story with illegal immigration advocates that want us to assimilate aliens and become multicultural, even though many (if not all) of the illegal aliens came here for a better way of life. If we have a better standard of living, freedoms or way of life, then why would you want to morph our country into your ex?
Because people are idiots. Too many betas have diluted the alpha population and we’re all going to die out by self injury. Lemmings…
Yes, I’m depressed today. I fear (regardless of what that RINO McCain has to say) what is coming in January…
Geministorm on October 14, 2008 at 8:49 AM
And what sucks about this is, these assholes will move to Florida and vote a straight democrat ticket just like they did in NJ.
Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties are as blue as NJ and NY. The more these SOBs from the north east move here, the higher the taxes get, the higher housing costs get, and the worse the drivers get. Stop coming here and making things worse!
roninacreage on October 14, 2008 at 8:50 AM
I got nothing to post now, since you pretty much did it for me.
DFCtomm on October 14, 2008 at 8:51 AM
JiangxiDad where are you at North or South shore, Suffolk or Nassau?
I am in Israel’s district which was Lazio’s. A republican could win here. The State GOP is not even trying. I know this is federal but can’t put a little effort in here.
peterargus on October 14, 2008 at 8:51 AM
Exactly. I do agree with Ed though, I suppose I need to at least try some more.
This state is in a tax death spiral. People cant afford the taxes, they leave and the tax population dwindles, creating a bigger tax burden for those who stay. It’s just repeating endlessly.
I’m paying 12k per year in property taxes alone. I know many of you realize how absurd that figure is, but I’m actually on the lower end of the scale on my own block let alone the “upper” tier homes. The people down the block had to move to N Carolina because of the property taxes (try 17k a year!).
Dash on October 14, 2008 at 8:52 AM
On a side note Ed you got to get this latest Stanley Kurtz article Wright 101 on what the funds from the Annenberg project bought:
“It looks like Jeremiah Wright was just the tip of the iceberg. Not only did Barack Obama savor Wright’s sermons, Obama gave legitimacy — and a whole lot of money — to education programs built around the same extremist anti-American ideology preached by Reverend Wright. And guess what? Bill Ayers is still palling around with the same bitterly anti-American Afrocentric ideologues that he and Obama were promoting a decade ago. All this is revealed by a bit of digging, combined with a careful study of documents from the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, the education foundation Obama and Ayers jointly led in the late 1990s”
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTQ0YjhlOGVhYjQ0OWRhZjI2MmM4NTQ4NGM5Mjg0MzU=
It brings the whole Ayers Wright Obama puzzle together.
cmptrnerd on October 14, 2008 at 8:52 AM
ManlyRash at 8:45 AM
and the People’s Republic of Massachusetts is where the shooting started!
I plan to go to New Hampshire someday
fluffy on October 14, 2008 at 8:52 AM
I’d like to suggest that New Jersey is what happens you kill off the center by RINO hunting and Kossite purges. I’m sure that there are many excellent tax-cutting RINO possible politicians in New Jersey, but so many people are afraid if you vote Republican you get a whole package that includes theocracy.
This brings me to my greatest fear about politics in America. It’s not an Obama victory, but political pendulum that swings too widely: Obama replaced by Palin replaced by some other socialist replaced by some other theocrat.
thuja on October 14, 2008 at 8:53 AM
How convenient!
Half of France would like to move to the U.S.
I think Jersey would be a perfect fit.
Joan of Argghh on October 14, 2008 at 8:54 AM
Both of our parties in NJ need to go.
Mr. Bingley on October 14, 2008 at 8:55 AM
And BY THE WAY … I cant let this opportunity pass without pointing out that the Democrats responsible for this hit LOW INCOME MINORITIES the hardest in my area. Low income families cant afford to keep up their homes, they sell to rich/upper middle class people who renovate the houses, and move to god knows where.
Dash on October 14, 2008 at 8:55 AM
It’s the conservatives that are fleeing. The only people left will be those who are wards of the state. One giant 9th Ward like in N.O. A big rotten liberal infection of a welfare state. I have in-laws who fled a long time ago and went back about 5 years ago to visit and said the state is beyond saving.
roninacreage on October 14, 2008 at 8:55 AM
Yeah but those FL voters who left NY and NJ and populated SE FL didn’t move there to escape Dem’s or liberalism. Their goal was to re-create it in the air-conditioned sunshine. But I’d bet that today’s migrant from NY and NJ is more likely to be an economic refugee and a Rep. to boot.
JiangxiDad on October 14, 2008 at 8:55 AM
As we say,
“You can run but you can not hide.
Col.John Wm. Reed on October 14, 2008 at 8:55 AM
It’s just too bad none of us can sell our house to actually get out of here.
I’ve often thought how much better it would be if the Detroit/Toledo area separated into it’s own state, so the rest of us could live prosperously.
ConservativeLawStudent on October 14, 2008 at 8:55 AM
Yes, I know all the wealth creators and tax payers have nearly left. When that happens, the looters will have no choice either but to move on. Then, perhaps, the state can be re-claimed.
JiangxiDad on October 14, 2008 at 8:56 AM
I was in Kiev, Ukraine during the Orange Revolution and spent some time in the tent city. It was the elderly people who argued for sticking close to Russia because they had never known anything else and were afraid of change. It was the young adults and teenagers who would stand and debate with the elderly about the benefits of going toward capitalism.
The problem is that somehow people believe it’s a good idea to leave one or two liberals/socialists in office, just to balance things out. Yuschenko wants capitalism but the socialists who keep getting elected block him at every turn.
AubieJon on October 14, 2008 at 8:57 AM
Detroit is beyond saving. Lansing is beyond saving. The rest of the state is ripe for a bounce back, starting with Kalamazoo, with The Promise, which is completely privately funded, by the way.
ConservativeLawStudent on October 14, 2008 at 8:58 AM
N.Shore/Nassau. Israel’s district. You make the 3rd Rep. I know.
JiangxiDad on October 14, 2008 at 8:59 AM
The funny thing about NJ is that people complain, but they keep electing Demo-rats.
pukara61 on October 14, 2008 at 9:00 AM
I’ll be up for that..
I lived in Michigan for 10 years and loved it there..
I moved, with wife and family, to Virginia this year for employment reasons.. much better employment reasons..
I like living in Virginia.. I still miss Michigan..
DaveC on October 14, 2008 at 9:02 AM
For the most part, they do have access to it. They’re just too lazy to seek out info and opinions that they can’t get from the TV. As for whether everyone would be conservative given the right info, I wouldn’t be too quick to make that assumption. The differences between leftist and rightist ideologies come down to philosophy in the end, and there’s no changing philosophy.
CherokeeJack on October 14, 2008 at 9:03 AM
The Christian religion is not new! It has been with and guided this country since it’s inception, and if it didn’t become a theocracy then it’s not going to become one now. You’re an idiot, but it may be the fact you haven’t got you’re coffee this morning, so get a cup and look at what you posted. If it still makes sense have another cup, and if that doesn’t help then indeed you’re an idiot.
DFCtomm on October 14, 2008 at 9:03 AM
That means that 51% like New Jersey just the way it is, and could care less about what the other 49% feel.
Isn’t that democracy in action? As long as the spenders can keep the delta over +0%, they’ll stay in power.
So, an analysis of New Jersey’s economy is in order, because it is the proverbial parakeet in the mine with regard to socialism and how far one can push it.
unclesmrgol on October 14, 2008 at 9:04 AM
Not from what i’ve seen first hand. The retired NE liberals that have turned south florida blue, are now having their grown liberal children and recently college graduated grand children move here also. They are just as misguidedly leftist as grndma and grandpa.
roninacreage on October 14, 2008 at 9:05 AM
Yeah, you’re right. I forgot about them. There aren’t as many here on LI as once was. Hopefully the spigot will shut soon and you will get a break.
JiangxiDad on October 14, 2008 at 9:11 AM
So anyone who believes there is a god and votes their conscience is nothing but a theocrat to you?
Nowonder you love RINOs so much.
MarkTheGreat on October 14, 2008 at 9:12 AM
I live here in Northeastern NJ and people complain about the taxes and the high costs. Yet, when I tell them to vote republican, they yell and laugh. Screw them.
jencab on October 14, 2008 at 9:12 AM
You’ve always been jealous of NY.
JiangxiDad on October 14, 2008 at 9:13 AM
to the libs their politics is their Religion thats why they think Obama is their messiah…they are eager to get their mark of obediance…
right4life on October 14, 2008 at 9:15 AM
Part of the problem in NJ is the makeup of the counties…most counties have a deep blue dump of a city (Newark, Elizabeth, Paterson, etc.) and the fraud and the mindless combine for a lock for Democrats by more than offsetting the red suburbs.
With the Republican flight that’s happened already, the districting that’s locked in the incumbents, and a Republican party that is pretty hopeless…you get a lot of discontent and nothing to stop it other than reverse fraud or us raiding the nursing homes for votes first.
Voting with your feet solves the problem, for you, and is actually attainable in your lifetime.
A Republican won’t run NJ until the Feds prosecute every sitting politician AND we declare bankruptcy due to the insane NJ government pension plan.
heypally on October 14, 2008 at 9:17 AM
Thanks to the northern half of the state (i.e., NYC-lite).
I’m a South Jersey boy, born and bred, and we can’t stand the crooks up in Trenton. But the North Jersey political establishment (i.e., corruption, mismanagement, unchecked spending) is entrenched. The northern part of the state has most of the population density (NYC suburbs), so we down here in the garden part of the Garden State are stuck.
I can’t talk for others, but PA’s looking pretty good to me.
Harpazo on October 14, 2008 at 9:18 AM
I wonder how quickly they’ll realize they’ve been bamboozled by a false hope from a false messiah.
Mojave Mark on October 14, 2008 at 9:19 AM
McCain could be doing a better job of delivering his message to those voters who hate the high taxes and government waste but don’t see him as being significantly more committed to small government than Obama.
dedalus on October 14, 2008 at 9:19 AM
What are you doing? Gathering up all the ballot boxes and throwing them in the bay?
Do you really think that we the people of the “Peoples Republic of MA” will stand for something that will take money from the state? The state can’t afford to have people vote yes on 1. I say vote no and continue to let the state take your money. It’s the only moral thing to do and don’t forget to vote for BO who will take even more money from you in an effort to make you even more moral.
jmarcure on October 14, 2008 at 9:20 AM
One of my points is that the left controls the message and they still only get around 50 per cent.
A lot of people don’t think too deeply about this stuff – they’re not ideological, in the way that people here or at Kos are. We’re not battling to win over lefties; the battle is for the non-ideologues. And I think non-ideologues, presented with the facts about a given subject, – anything from Obama’s association with Ayers to energy policy or the future of Israel – will come down on our side more often than the left.
EnglishMike on October 14, 2008 at 9:20 AM
N.Shore/Nassau. Israel’s district. You make the 3rd Rep. I know.
It is redder on the South Shore. However my town went blue because of corruption.
peterargus on October 14, 2008 at 9:21 AM
But it is, on so many levels.
It shouldn’t be, but it is.
jgapinoy on October 14, 2008 at 9:22 AM
If all the socialists run from state to state, that will just leave the sane people behind to transform the state governments being abandoned back into sane governments. Let’s step up to the plate and get it done.
Vatican Watcher on October 14, 2008 at 9:22 AM
I was thinking of leaving New Jersey to move to Texas, but all my friends it Texas tell me that the place is Hell on Earth, getting down to minus 20 in the Winter and up to 140 in the Summer, with Mosquitos the size of Canada Geese and hurricanes, tornados and earthquakes every other day.
It’s funny, but when I visit, Texas seems to be perfectly pleasant and lovely. I must be seeing it at the right time of year, because my friends all tell me that it’s hardly ever like that.
I guess I just have to stay in New Jersey…
gridlock2 on October 14, 2008 at 9:24 AM
they won’t. these people are seriously deluded. look at all the other democRAT paradises…chicago, detroit, st. louis, New Orleans, East St. louis….
they keep voting democRAT because they care…
right4life on October 14, 2008 at 9:24 AM
Starting Nov. 5 Chicago style government will be moving into Washington. They may fill in some cracks with hacks from New Jersey but the important point is that there will be nowhere to run. Federal mandates on education, labor as well as “social justice” issues will drain the swamp of any open support for conservative issues. The Dear One will propose legislation to fast track to citizenship those of the 12 to 20 million irregular immigrants who can prove they’ve been here for more than three years (an uncle’s word will suffice). We’ll then see blue coast to coast at least until Islamic green demography kicks in as it is now in Europe.
Annar on October 14, 2008 at 9:28 AM
If Barack Obama is elected, the first thing he will do is sign Card Check, and unions will be making things damned difficult in your neighborhood, too…
gridlock2 on October 14, 2008 at 9:28 AM
I’ve thought of PA as well. So much is rural and beautiful. But don’t the domination of the political scene by Phili and Pittsburg cause exactly the same kinds of problems there? There are many beautiful parts of NJ as well, but politically, they’re not out of reach of the looters. How is PA different?
JiangxiDad on October 14, 2008 at 9:28 AM
As a former New Jerseyan, this poll is not new. There was one done last year that reported the same thing, and for the same reasons. You are correct that the residents of NJ can choose to change the governemnt by voting, but do you really expect them to be that smart? In NJ, ytou quickly become used to having Big Brother do everything, including thinking for you. That is why Repblicans are RINOs, with few exceptions, and always vote with the traitorous Dems
trainwife1962 on October 14, 2008 at 9:30 AM
Can you blame a state that borders New York city and Philadelphia for not realizing that they can vote republican???
MDaws on October 14, 2008 at 9:31 AM
I live in Pennsylvania near the New Jersey border, and half my neighborhood works in New Jersey. My husband works for the state government in Trenton; it is only a 35-minute drive. A large percentage of state workers live in PA. We have new families moving in all the time who came from NJ. PA taxes are no picnic, but they pale in comparison to NJ’s. And the schools are much better.
rockmom on October 14, 2008 at 9:32 AM
I worked in politics for years and there was an inside joke that everyone wanted to run a campaign because we had the perfect campaign slogan. “We will steal less.”
Those same numbers are showing up in Michigan and California. Notice anything odd about them. Except for Arnold every statewide office holder, the legislatures and the majority of the congressional delegations are all Democrat.
Now it looks like the rest of the country wants to give congress and the presidency to these buffoons.
Jdripper on October 14, 2008 at 9:35 AM
Please move to Bucks County, we need more conservatives here. There are actually very conservative parts of Bucks, but the lower part of the county near Philly is heavily unionized working-class towns that vote Democratic. In recent elections the Dems have done a better job getting those folks to the polls than we have. But it’s a beautiful place to live, good schools that avoid liberal indoctrination, nice small town atmosphere.
rockmom on October 14, 2008 at 9:35 AM
People don’t appreciate that fifty years ago New Jersey was a great place to live. Farm land and plenty of places to build a house and commute into NYC if needed. Hard working people allowed some crooked Dems to take office and the welfare checks started rolling out to buy votes and create urban plantations. The double whammy was folks from NYC moving into the area and creating a yuppy credit disaster. New Jersey now and is a great place to drive through (cheap gas and no self-serve allowed) but one awful place to live.
Hening on October 14, 2008 at 9:40 AM
Ed, New Jersey was controlled by Republicans for years, and still, the taxes went up and government interfered more and more in the peoples’ lives. The insurance industry’s control of NJ politicians is only one example of how deep the corruption is; New Jerseyans pay among the highest insurance in the nation.
Also, New Jerseyans DID get together and throw out a Democratic governor who raised taxes. His name was Jim Florio. He was replaced by a succession of Republican governors and legislators. New Jersey’s budget continued to bloat, taxes continued to rise, and now people are blaming only the Dems. Blame sixteen years of Tom Kean and Christie Whitman, who together indebted the children of New Jersey for decades to come. Corzine is only a recent addition to the governor’s mansion in NJ. The Republicans had the legislature and the governor for long enough to rein in the budget and taxes—and they didn’t.
Meryl Yourish on October 14, 2008 at 9:42 AM
Fluffy,
What makes it worse is that even if we win on Question 1, the corrupt critters on Beacon Hill will either 1) ignore it, or 2) reverse it the first chance they get. And of course, our fellow citizens will continue to vote these people back into office…
RedMindBlueState on October 14, 2008 at 9:43 AM
This sounds incredibly naieve to me. Our choices are so limited and we only ever vote for the lesser of two evils. Evil either way. We gave the GOP everything they needed to implement thier stated agenda and what did we get? Bupkis! In Washington State we elected a GOP Governor and they just recounted until they got the results they wanted. I fully understand the lack of faith in American Democracy. We have voted for “Change” every election that I can remember but with the exception of Reagan we got only change for the worse. Run fast Jersey. Run very fast!
ronsfi on October 14, 2008 at 9:43 AM
People need to fix the state they’re in. Otherwise you’re just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
There is an unbelievably high percentage of people from NY/NJ here in North Carolina. Already our tax burden has exploded in the past decade and we are the highest taxed state in the southeast. So where can we native North Carolinians go now that the Yankees are taking over?
Laserjock on October 14, 2008 at 9:45 AM
Very interesting topic Ed. I have noticed this happening in other communites but on a smaller scale. In GA for example residents in the wealtheir northern part of Fulton county wanted to become a seperate county again. )They merged after the civil war) but that would have started a very racially charged process. Once those residents start to move 10 miles to the north into another county Fulton county will lose those tax revenues, then they will be forced to turn inward for more revenue to suport their programs. Where it becomes interesting is the middle class blacks will be paying higer taxes to support low income blacks. No race card to be played in that situation.
Also in Chicago, a town wanted to switch counties to avoid Cook countys tax increase. If Cook county starts losing satellite cties to drain for cash they too will be left to tax the rich inner city liberals. Me thinks those liberals will become alot less so. Similar situation exists in San Francisco where housing projects are a stone throw from $800,000 homes.
When the conservativs and middle class simply move out and all you have left are the poor and wealthy liberals government will HAVE to change.
Theworldisnotenough on October 14, 2008 at 9:46 AM
And then they vote for the same dirtbags that ruined the states they came from. The hell with the mexican border, I wish we here in Florida could build a wall along our border.
peacenprosperity on October 14, 2008 at 9:54 AM
The Democrats have succeeded in stealing elections in a majority of the urban centers in the east…
benrand on October 14, 2008 at 9:55 AM
Thank you. Bucks County is indeed beautiful. I lived in Pittsburgh for a short time, and found the state full of natural beauty. (Pittsburgh’s location is very beautiful btw.) But for political reason, I think I would prefer someplace more reliably red. If I have to move, I don’t want to have to move again.
JiangxiDad on October 14, 2008 at 9:58 AM
Good grief.
A Republican governor of NJ or MA has a ninety degree mountain to climb when you look at the state legislators. Corzine is one big snake amongst his fellow vipers. The implants of New Jersey are getting the type of government they elected. The natives are all moving elsewhere as an exodus for survival.
Blaming insurance companies didn’t work for Hilary either.
Hening on October 14, 2008 at 10:06 AM
Lived in NJ my whole life (except for a brief stint there in my 20s) and it boggles my mind how the people in NJ continually vote in the most corrupt rotten politicians cycle after cycle. They deserve what they get; and if they continue their voting patterns when they move elsewhere, it just spreads the disease.
Willie on October 14, 2008 at 10:06 AM
I spend part of the year in NJ and part of the year in AZ. The cost of living in AZ is unquestionably lower, and government is run much more efficiently (and effectively). On the other hand, I would have to say that people in NJ tend to be more sophisticated, better educated, and more informed about current events. I pay much less property tax in AZ, but I have more interesting conversations in the Garden State. Plus, there aren’t many places I’d rather be in July than the boardwalk; I’m afraid the broiling Sonoran Desert doesn’t compare.
Life consists of trade-offs. There’s more to living than economics and politics.
sauropod on October 14, 2008 at 10:07 AM
What a load of crap. The reason our rates are so high is because there are more accidents and car thefts per capita than in any other state. You can also thank the legions of slip-and-fall shylocks that infest the courtrooms in this state.
Also, New Jerseyans DID get together and throw out a Democratic governor who raised taxes. His name was Jim Florio. He was replaced by a succession of Republican governors and legislators.
More crap. The whole mess started with Democrat Brendan Byrne. The NJ legislature has always been dominated by Democrats and Democrat thinking. Republicans in this state are RINOs who took down Brett Schundler because they deemed him TOO conservative. The result was Jim Florio and the highest tax increases in the state’s history.
Corzine is a farking tax-n-spend disaster. Kean and Whitman are all the historical proof anyone needs that conservatism in this state is dead.
Get a clue, Meryl.
ManlyRash on October 14, 2008 at 10:08 AM
Not sure what places will be reliably red much longer. The northern liberals and Mexicans are taking over much of the South and Southwest. Even my home state of Kentucky is starting to elect liberals to Congress and the Mexicans are moving there in droves.
I think we will all have to move to Alaska. I hear it has a pretty good governor who cut taxes and spending, and stopped corruption!
rockmom on October 14, 2008 at 10:08 AM
A good topic for conversation when the authorities slap a tax lien on your property.
Nitwit.
ManlyRash on October 14, 2008 at 10:09 AM
If you can stand 200+ inches of snow and cold for 6 months a year, bugs for three months, and the best fall weather anywhere, north of the Mac is the place to be. The UP hasn’t had a healthy job market since the glacier retreated but land is still cheap (in a relative sort of way) and it’s not crowded. If you are self-reliant, and a somewhat rugged individualist, and don’t need a Starbucks to start your day, you can make it here. That is if you are ready to live on less and enjoy it more.
Lansing has forgotten we are here and leaves us alone except at tax time. We keep threating to cede from the Once-Great-State-of-Michigan and start our own State of Superior, but can never get enough people together in one place to agree to the name, much less a charter.
Yoop on October 14, 2008 at 10:13 AM
A good topic for conversation when the authorities slap a tax lien on your property.
Why would they do that? I pay my taxes. If I couldn’t afford them, I would move.
Most people in NJ can afford their taxes. That’s because income levels are higher here than in the Sunbelt. Yes, the Sunbelt states have lower taxes, but wages and salaries are lower there, too.
If you dislike the Northeast, there’s a simple solution: move elsewhere. In a country of this size and diversity, there are countless options available.
It’s better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.
sauropod on October 14, 2008 at 10:16 AM
If you can afford the candle. Not all of us have the luxury of two domiciles.
ManlyRash on October 14, 2008 at 10:19 AM
My wife & I are also about to hop on a train out of here. Heading to one of the five commonwealths in all likelihood.
I ask you though, which is worse:
The fact that democrats stay in power no matter how blatantly poorly this state is run on all levels.
…or
The fact that Jersey republicans, even amidst such an obviously incompetent, democratic incumbency- can’t win?
Know what I’m sayin’?
ChipDWood on October 14, 2008 at 10:21 AM
How did the “unsophisticates” in AZ end up with the more efficient and effective gov’t?
JiangxiDad on October 14, 2008 at 10:23 AM
Exactly right. Both parties are a curse and guilty.
Mr. Bingley on October 14, 2008 at 10:27 AM
See we’re just gonna go ahead and vote in the same corrupt Senator we have for the last 8 or so years and then complain to the hills. I was hoping many republicans would come out and get old Franky out of office, but thats looking a little far fetched now too.
Hopefully in a few years we’ll atleast be smart enough to do away with Corzine.
Rbastid on October 14, 2008 at 10:27 AM
Kentucky, Mass, Virginia, Pa. What’s the fifth?
or British commonwealth. 53 right?
JiangxiDad on October 14, 2008 at 10:27 AM
How a Red State turns Blue and the migration of Locusts:
1. Liberals vote in Democrats who always raise taxes to fund giveaways.
2. Then the Liberals complain about the resulting high cost of living.
3. Suffering under the high cost of living resulting from their voting patterns the Liberal migrates to lower cost state, usually a Red State.
4. Over time, enough Liberals have migrated, like locusts, to the Red state that it begins to turn Blue.
5. The taxes in that state start to rise.
6. The natives are the first to leave accelerating the bluing of the formerly Red state.
7. The New Liberal majority demands more services and begins to vote for Dems.
8. Over time the cost of living begins to rise as taxes are raised to pay for the new services demanded by the Blue locusts.
9. Return to 3 above.
DerKrieger on October 14, 2008 at 10:27 AM
How did the “unsophisticates” in AZ end up with the more efficient and effective gov’t?
That’s a good question. The answer is that the corrupt, bloated government of the Northeast has evolved gradually since the 19th century – a result of the unholy alliance of ward-heeling pols, trial lawyers, union bosses, and organized crime families.
Arizona is a newer state that was relatively unpopulated until recently. There just hasn’t been time to build up the layers of waste and corruption. Give it a few decades, and the Grand Canyon State will probably catch up – unfortunately.
sauropod on October 14, 2008 at 10:29 AM
fwiw, maryland is likely to experience this pretty soon. the gov unseated the first gop governor since spiro agnew (bob ehrlich, much nicer guy), jacked spending, declared a ’structural deficit’ and increased taxes. i taunt my dad about my new state’s (WA) lack of income tax now and then for fun, since his has gone up. MD also tried to pass a law not too long ago requiring companies with a certain # of employees to spend some set % on healthcare. I know thats not a lot of details, but the ONLY company in the state that would have been hit was, you guessed it, Wal-Mart. MD’s decline is one reason wy VA has become bluer. The libs realize md is going downhill so they run to northern VA, since they probably work there anyway. It’s kinda sad to watch the govt ruin the state, but as long as they dont mess with the Terps or Redskins I’ll get over it. My dad on the other hand….
hump1201 on October 14, 2008 at 10:35 AM
That has been true. The past few months may have been a cataclysm for the state following years where taxes could rise based on the region’s job engine.
The pharmaceutical, finance and insurance companies can increasingly look outside the region or outside the country for skilled workers who don’t have the same living expenses as NJ workers. The pharma industry faces contraction with an Obama health plan and Wall Street (the primary source of high paying jobs) has been diminished. Municipalities have been raising taxes as fast as or faster than bubble prices increased. The looming job loss and significant decrease in real estate values will force municipalities to rethink what they do. They’ll need to adapt or die.
dedalus on October 14, 2008 at 10:36 AM
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