Maher: “I lied” about direction of new film to participants
posted at 9:55 am on October 14, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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CNN looks into complaints from people appearing in the new Bill Maher film, Religulous, that filmmakers misrepresented their aims in interviews. Senator Mark Pryor (D-AR) claims to have been taken out of context, but others claim that Maher and director Larry Charles flat-out lied. Both of them admit to it:
Pryor’s complaint seems minor compared to the other allegations in this piece. I would imagine that PBS might have some issues with Maher and Charles posing as members of their news teams to gain the trust of these subjects, as it will make it more difficult for them to get interviews in the future. I imagine CNN would have provided a lot more criticism of this practice had Maher posed as one of their news units, although CNN does a pretty good job of reporting on Maher and Charles in this piece.
Documentaries only have value when they report truth and don’t distort for propaganda purposes. Religulous obviously falls into that latter, Michael-Moore category, and that was obvious from the first time I saw the trailer a month ago. It speaks ill of any documentary filmmaker and the value of their project when they lie about their intentions and misrepresent their project as baldly as Maher and Charles do here. Deception may be needed in investigative journalism when uncovering government abuses or similar practices in the private sector, but how much deception would be necessary to find extremists in the various religions of the world? Most of them constantly clamor for attention.
In the end, a documentary exploiting the extremists in any endeavor for laughs does nothing but feed the smug superiority of the filmmakers. It’s the worst kind of self-indulgence, and in this case exposes the bigotry of Maher and Charles. We already knew that much about Maher, and now we know he’s also intellectually dishonest as well, without the courage to stand in front of his project and have a valid debate rather than lie and then poke fun of billions of people by equating them with the freak show he himself stages.
Update: Yes, CNN still can’t figure out how to create embeddable code for its videos. Yes, they’re incredibly lame. Click the link at the top to take you to the video on CNN’s site.
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Dude that’s why you come across as a troll. Don’t expect your average Christain manners from me when you say insulting things like “Roll your own?”
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 11:43 AM
When I see the trailers for this movie — and for “W” — I cannot help but wonder from what psychological disorder do so many liberals suffer that these movies qualify as “entertainment” in their minds.
Y-not on October 14, 2008 at 11:45 AM
While I agree that the public face of Christianity seems to consist of pedophile priests, Pat Robertson and creationism, it should also be noted that they really do not represent mainstream Christianity or it’s dogma/doctrine.
The problem is easily understood – you get more press when you screw up than when you feed the hungry, clothe the naked or visit the sick.
Two thoughts:
1) By and large, IMHO, the public is quite ignorant of the “great thinkers” of our time. Instead, they have been replaced by Dan Rather, Dan Brown, Matt Damon, Rosie O’donnell, Judge Judy, Geraldo and Oprah.
2) The “great thinkers” I WOULD mention would include: Dietrich Bonhoeffer, C.S. Lewis, Walter Brueggemann, Raymond E. Brown, Max Lucado, Thomas Oden and N.T. Wright.
Religious_Zealot on October 14, 2008 at 11:47 AM
You answered your own question Y-man. It’s not entertainment. It’s indoctrination that you pay for. It’ll be free though in the reeducation camps.
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 11:49 AM
If you want to destroy something, tax it or ridicule it. Works wonderfully either way.
TimothyJ on October 14, 2008 at 11:54 AM
eh…
…Christianity has been mocked and ridiculed from its very beginning and it’s still doing pretty well.
In two months people will have forgotten about this sham of a movie.
But two hundred years from now people will still be worshiping and serving Christ.
Religious_Zealot on October 14, 2008 at 12:01 PM
True, but I do fear the state that things were some may consider a belief dangerous and do everything they can to subdue it given the chancce.
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 12:04 PM
There’s a reason why the words “belief” and “knowledge” have two seperate entries in the dictionary. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with both words.
On the other hand, you state that belief is not knowledge, yet you have no trouble ridiculing those who’s beliefs do not line up with yours.
Do you often have trouble with double standards?
MarkTheGreat on October 14, 2008 at 12:05 PM
He also believes that his lies serve a greater truth, therefore are justified.
MarkTheGreat on October 14, 2008 at 12:07 PM
Gal, actually, but I take your point.
I really don’t understand the tremendous hatred these folks feel for Bush.
Y-not on October 14, 2008 at 12:07 PM
We cannot imagine how important this need must be for this inferior person.
Of course, they can blame their failure of a documentary on the economy this time.
Right_of_Attila on October 14, 2008 at 12:10 PM
they’re incredibly lame
Exactly why I won’t bother trying to watch the vid…
Biffstir on October 14, 2008 at 12:14 PM
While things DO look like they are taking a turn for the worse…
…we must remember our history and understand that Christianity thrives MORE when it is not popular/illegal than when it is embraced/accepted by the ruling elite.
Religious_Zealot on October 14, 2008 at 12:15 PM
First of all, I said if you “want” to destroy something, tax or ridicule it. I didn’t say it would succeed. But, friend zealot, you would have to agree that Christianity in Europe is almost gone, that here in America we are being innundated with ridicule on almost every television program that is put before us. I had an associate who sold his tv to keep his kids away from that stuff, but they just went to the neighbors after school and watched it there.
Somewhat off topic: Mike (1380 am here)was talking on his show about the Catholic Bishops telling their people not to vote for abortion advocating politicians. As a Protestant, I wonder if we should be doing the same.
TimothyJ on October 14, 2008 at 12:17 PM
*Blushes*
You, uh, did see my previous comments on HA about how much I appreciate the grassroots movement of strong conservative women?
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 12:18 PM
No blushing needed! A couple of months ago I went to one of those sites that looks at your browsing patterns and guesses your gender and I came up “male.” Apparently, if your browsing takes you frequently to conservative political sites, sports sites, and Lowe’s, you’re a guy! Fortunately, my hubby knows I’m all woman! :-)
Anyhoo, I’ve enjoyed your posts, hawkdriver. especially on the military topics.
Y-not on October 14, 2008 at 12:32 PM
So noted.
Yes, Christianity in Europe has been on the decline since the end of WWII. That it hasn’t entirely “given up the ghost” is a good sign.
However, I would put the reason of the decline due more to the lingering after effects of the carnage caused by two world wars than to simple ridicule.
That said, the fact that they seem to be embracing their Muslim overlords IS a bit disconcerting.
Religious_Zealot on October 14, 2008 at 12:32 PM
If religion is such a joke, why do its enemies obsess on destroying it?
Gutless answer: “the inquisition” and “the crusades.”
Correct answer: “because self-examination is a bitch and I want to avoid it.”
jeff_from_mpls on October 14, 2008 at 12:34 PM
Not a big fan of Maher to say the least but I think I may have to see a movie that has pushed the snake smootchers to such wailing and gnashing of teeth. Must be no small amount of truth in it to hurt that badly. Unless of course as I suspect none of them have bothered to see it and have just gone all KOSeyed because they heard it portrays their fellow lemmings in a poor light. Not all religions or religious are equal.
ronsfi on October 14, 2008 at 12:36 PM
Maher screw people over for money?
The hell you say!
drjohn on October 14, 2008 at 12:39 PM
Actually, in this country they are.
Y-not on October 14, 2008 at 12:40 PM
-sheesh-
These trolls aren’t even INTERESTING!
Religious_Zealot on October 14, 2008 at 12:44 PM
Secularists suppress religion because they think religious beliefs have dangerous consequences.
I understand the point.
But then they have no legs to stand on when America’s enemies attack us on the ground that the idea of “liberty” has dangerous consequences.
What our enemies REALLY mean is the idea of liberty has dangerous consequences for THEM.
And what atheists REALLY mean is the idea of religion has dangerous consequences for THEM, on a very personal level.
jeff_from_mpls on October 14, 2008 at 12:46 PM
I saw this movie and I liked it. I knew what it was going to be. I’m sure Bill knows that the only people going to see the movie are people who are agnostics and atheists. He knows he’s not going to convert anyone.
His closing statement in the movie is echoing that of some of the recent atheist books. His point is that those of us who do not believe in any guy-in-the-sky nonsense should quit being polite and humoring a belief system that threatens to destroy our species.
We’re in the beginning of another “holy” war and too many people refuse to see that the killing is all about fairy tales.
deewhybee on October 14, 2008 at 12:50 PM
deewhybee on October 14, 2008 at 12:50 PM
Some religions kill people.
Therefore ban all religion.
Some drugs kill people.
Therefore ban all drugs.
Not so clever when applied consistently.
jeff_from_mpls on October 14, 2008 at 12:53 PM
It’s funny to me when people bash religion. Names of hospitals in my metropolitan area: Christ, Jewish, Sisters of Mercy, Deaconess, St. Luke’s, Good Samaritan. Serving others as nurses, teachers. Giving to others. Caring for others. They believe all men are equal. Do unto others as you would have them unto you. And, they do believe in an omniscient living being you can’t see and that a man who was executed 2000 years ago died for their sins. Yeah, they sound like monsters to me. Really dangerous.
Paul-Cincy on October 14, 2008 at 12:55 PM
So basically you are saying that this film is a religous experience for atheists and agnostics? That’s pretty funny.
And no I don’t plan to see the movie… I don’t go to other churches as a rule, I have made acceptions but only for good reasons… Entertainment isn’t one of them… to each his own “fairy tale” as you say.
petunia on October 14, 2008 at 1:02 PM
Well, this is where psychology comes in. There is a sense in which Christianity is dangerous to non-believers. It’s dangerous in the sense that it involves self-reflection and ultimately it threatens to remove your sense of security in whatever in your life you’ve substituted for faith.
Rather than admit this, the typical atheist projects his anxiety outward in the form of exaggerated warnings about crusades and inquisitions, and scary “dark ages.” That way, he doesn’t sound like a coward. He sounds like modern, enlightened hero. A martyr even. All without having to face himself honestly.
jeff_from_mpls on October 14, 2008 at 1:04 PM
Only in rights not in quality or decorum.
ronsfi on October 14, 2008 at 1:06 PM
Jeff, where did you see in my post where I said to ban religion? I don’t think totalitarianism is better. What I would like to see is for people to wake up and realize it’s stupid to believe in burning bushes that talk, or any of the other idiocy that religions preach.
deewhybee on October 14, 2008 at 1:08 PM
Please, snake-kissers?
lol, Nope no reason to gnash teeth here! Christians are overreacting to perceived bias and ridicule directed their way. Stupid, stupid Cristians. Someone please remind me to breath so I don’t sufficate.
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 1:09 PM
I think it’s funny when people say that atheism negates the need for self-reflection. That’s quite rich coming from the adherents to the spiritual welfare state. How much self-reflection goes on when you believe every word of a book that was written by someone else centuries ago? “I believe it because God said it!” is hardly self-reflection.
deewhybee on October 14, 2008 at 1:13 PM
What does it matter to you what people believe? Since you seem to feel so strongly, if you were in a position to have an effect on these believers, how far would you go to influence their beliefs?
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 1:14 PM
That’s smootchers no kissers. Denotes a lot more spit.
ronsfi on October 14, 2008 at 1:18 PM
I was talking to my Atheist, self proclaimed “militant liberal” friend about the movie, and of course he loved it.
TheUnrepentantGeek on October 14, 2008 at 1:18 PM
Yeah that would be dangerous in the sense that they tend to want to kill them.
ronsfi on October 14, 2008 at 1:20 PM
I’d add the great G. K. Chesterton to your list.
The man was a genius.
pannw on October 14, 2008 at 1:23 PM
Ok, let’s call a spade a spade, then. Edits below.
I’ve lived places where my religious denomination was the most commonly followed one and places where I was in the religious minority, and I’ve had my stomach turned by the attacks on Palin over her Pentecostalism, so I’m not as quick to judge people’s religions based on “quality” or “decorum” as you are, apparently.
Y-not on October 14, 2008 at 1:23 PM
Hold the presses: You mean the director whose last film was Borat lied to the participants in his film? And with Maher, whose claims to libertarianism are contradicted every time he opens his mouth?
Give me a break. This should shock no one who’s been paying attention. And the reviews and box office have been lukewarm. So why does this qualify as “news”? It’s not like October of an election year is a slow time for news….
calbear on October 14, 2008 at 1:24 PM
I see we have another example of the type of person who prefers dwelling on stereotypes rather than thinking for himself. What is it about atheism/agnosticism that it consistently attracts such personalities?
MarkTheGreat on October 14, 2008 at 1:26 PM
If one wants to compare what philosophy “threatens the species” one need go further than look at the number of people killed by atheists, despite the fact that they are so much fewer in number.
MarkTheGreat on October 14, 2008 at 1:28 PM
To apply a concept consistently, one has to first think through the concept.
I doubt deewhybee has thought anything through thoroughly.
MarkTheGreat on October 14, 2008 at 1:29 PM
Yes, yes, yes! (wailing) You’ve got me! I do secretly yearn to pilot a plane into a tall building or separate a non-believers 4th and 5th vertebras with a kitchen knife. Oh the inhumanity of my Christian hate! Lamenting, lamenting …
Okay I’m over it.
So, I take it we’re back to criticizing the Christians for the Crusades again as if it were yesterday and as if there were no Muslim aggression in Europe that impelled it. You are so topical and relevant
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 1:30 PM
further evidence that deewhybee has no idea what Christianity is about. He prefers to dwell in the land of thoughtless stereotypes.
MarkTheGreat on October 14, 2008 at 1:31 PM
I’m not sure why anyone feels the need to mock people regareding their religon. I consider myself to be a athiest, but would never think of mocking someone else’s religous choice. That choice is a deeply personal thing, and while I may not agree with it, I an damn sure not so arrogant to belive that I know the whole truth.
lahlon on October 14, 2008 at 1:31 PM
From the quality of his rhetoric, I highly doubt that ronsfi, or deewhybee for that matter, has ever had an original thought. Much less contemplated on it for more than a few seconds.
MarkTheGreat on October 14, 2008 at 1:33 PM
Same tactics as Borat. And Borat sucked. What I saw of it, that is. After a mildly amusing start it was all down hill, and I turned it off in disgust.
As for “W”, when are we going to see a movie with Barry stumbling around drunk and stoned with cocaine residue stuck to the end of his lying nose? Maybe sneak in a bit about his childhood at the feet of communist pervert Frank Marshall?
Buy Danish on October 14, 2008 at 1:34 PM
I must point out, that prior to the 6th or 7th century, the “Holy Lands”, indeed almost all of the Mediterranean from Turkey to Libya was Christian. The Crusades were an effort to recapture lands that had been invaded.
MarkTheGreat on October 14, 2008 at 1:36 PM
+1
That’s what America stands for.
Y-not on October 14, 2008 at 1:36 PM
What vitriol. You thumpers always overreact. Any criticizm and POW! In your mind your transported to Nero’s Rome being burned at the stake. Take a pill. Oh and I dig Palin even though I don’t dig her religion. You see being secure in my own beliefs relieves me of the need to have everyone support them. You should try it.
ronsfi on October 14, 2008 at 1:36 PM
Palin on Rush.
Y-not on October 14, 2008 at 1:37 PM
I think it’s funny that Atheists feel the need to go on Internet sites and tell people how stupid they are for not seeing the world like they do. For people who don’t believe something, you’re awfully motivated to share your perspective. I wonder why.
And you care because? Allergic to crosses perhaps? Bodhisattvas give you hives? Incense makes you nauseous?
Sure. Whatever. I’d bet good money that you, and most of the people like you:
A) Don’t believe in the supernatural and simply like to argue
B) Aren’t sure what you believe and are looking for reinforcement by debating with easy targets
C) Suffered some sort of bad experience by people with the “religious” label and have generalized antipathy out to everyone sharing that label and now seek to vent that anger
or some mixture thereof. I probably missed a motivator or two, but I doubt those I missed have anything to do with a generalized need to “better the lot of mankind by ending superstition.” Please. High-minded BS like that has little place in a moral philosophy with no room to acknowledge concepts like “good” and “evil” as anything more than socially constructed survival mechanisms.
PS. Spiritual welfare state? Do you do parties with that act? How’s that play at the average Bar-Mitzvah?
TheUnrepentantGeek on October 14, 2008 at 1:38 PM
This person answered your question. Bill Maher is no more a Libertarian than Lenin was. Maher is a Marxist. DYBs statement demonstrates the Marxist intent and I rest my case on that note.
One word of caution to DYB though. For most true believers, we hold our faith over all other believes and oathes that we take. I would be very cautious of the battles you pick.
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 1:40 PM
Isn’t it interesting that the more aggressive, political variety of materialist atheism can’t make any of its points without lying? These guys wouldn’t have had much of a movie if they had arranged honest interviews with their subjects.
I’m not devoutly religious myself, but my sympathy toward the religious community, and much of the reason I became conservative in my early college years, is inspired by their fundamental honesty. There are people with some weird beliefs about when the dinosaurs lived, but at least they’re not trying to pretend the dinosaur bones don’t exist, or calling you a bigot for noticing them. They’ve fallen victim to some con artists, but you didn’t see 90% of them getting suckered by one con artist from Chicago. They give some odd answers to questions, sometimes, but they never try to prosecute you for asking the question.
In fact, the one thing Maher’s stupid movie proves is that even the wilder species of fundamentalist are more willing to answer questions about their beliefs than the average “community organizer.”
Doctor Zero on October 14, 2008 at 1:40 PM
Get a life. There was nothing vitriolic about my post and you know it.
BTW, I’m not a “thumper” (or a “snake smootcher” [sic]). Interesting that you feel the need to put labels on people.
Have a nice day.
Y-not on October 14, 2008 at 1:41 PM
You come here with you’re insults and find vitriol in what Y-not said? You’re a joke troll, and your arguments are just plain stupid.
Don’t expect rollover Chritsians everywhere you go to pick a fight.
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 1:44 PM
Yet,
When creationists liars did exactly the same thing to scientists like Richard Dawkins and PZ Myers to get out of context quotes for the farce documentary Expelled… I didn’t see you complaining then.
I guess it’s ok when the propaganda is what you want to hear rather what you don’t want to hear.
chupa on October 14, 2008 at 1:44 PM
Yep, listening.
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 1:45 PM
To whom are you addressing this post? I doubt everyone here subscribes to a belief in creationism.
Try avoiding blanket statements and you might find that religious people are not all as scary as you apparently imagine.
Y-not on October 14, 2008 at 1:48 PM
You actually believe that what you are doing is offering criticism?
MarkTheGreat on October 14, 2008 at 1:49 PM
Okay, Rosie O’Donnell. You be sure and tell me of all the terrorist attacks perpetrated on America by Christian fundamentalists. Ignore the Muslims ones because that’s Islamophobia.
MadisonConservative on October 14, 2008 at 1:52 PM
Barry’s short comings will eventually be ridiculed by the media, based on whatever personal shortcomings manifest themselves. He’ll have a longer honeymoon than most but eventually some set of flaws will be latched onto by the media, which needs a counter narrative.
The criticisms of Bush as a guy who relied too much on personal relationships and too little on analysis are characterizations that Bush contributed to with his actions. Some of his principled positions will look better as time goes on but he won’t be highly regarded for his managerial skill.
dedalus on October 14, 2008 at 1:58 PM
MadisonConservative on October 14, 2008 at 1:52 PM
MarkTheGreat on October 14, 2008 at 1:49 PM
What a couple of thin skinned sissies. LOL.
ronsfi on October 14, 2008 at 1:59 PM
lol, atheists, what ass-clowns!
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 2:02 PM
It was a question. What vitriol?
ronsfi on October 14, 2008 at 2:04 PM
Lying about their purposes for a film?
Why.. that’s so Hollyweird and the stuff of “legends”.
Mcguyver on October 14, 2008 at 2:04 PM
Your god must be so proud.
ronsfi on October 14, 2008 at 2:05 PM
Thanks, you just helped me win a 10 dollar bet with teh NCO in my office.
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 2:06 PM
Anyway you are all so predictable and so easy to expose as bitter, hateful, hippocrytes. Enjoy wallowing in your venom. I’m going out to enjoy a sunny fall day.
ronsfi on October 14, 2008 at 2:08 PM
The end justifies the means. If there is no God, then why bother with ethics.
custer on October 14, 2008 at 2:12 PM
You too my predictable atheist friend.
I bet my NCO I could make you’d judge what Christian can or can’t say and still be Christian-like in their behavior.
Double-edged sword there isn’t it. If we turn the other cheek, we’re saps. If we defend ourselves using popular culture terms, we’re un-true to our faith. As if…
As if you were in a position to decide for us what is appropriate in our behavior.
On your way..buh-bye..ass-clown
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 2:12 PM
Of course, people must object to EVERY unethical action or objecting to ANY of them is TEH HYPOCRISY.
It’s a shame Ben used the ID as his topic. If he’d gone after the Anthropogenic Global Warming panic cult we’d have had a movie that would really have opened eyes about the climate of discourse in academia.
TheUnrepentantGeek on October 14, 2008 at 2:17 PM
You’re better man than I am (literally, apparently! ha ha). I decided to stop engaging it when it resorted to name-calling. Have a nice day is my nice way of saying up yours.
(Its inability to correctly punctuate its posts (rendering them meaningless) was a nice touch, though.)
Y-not on October 14, 2008 at 2:19 PM
I’m waiting on your list of Christian fundamentalist attacks to compare to the 10,000+ Muslim attacks in the last decade.
MadisonConservative on October 14, 2008 at 2:27 PM
I cannot understand the concept that the only reason to “bother” with ethics is God. I don’t believe in God and I do not feel the desire to wantonly rape, murder, and steal.
If God is one’s sole reason for behaving as a decent person then one is not a decent person. If it’s true that God sees your soul then is he really stupid enough to fall for such a transparent disguise?
deewhybee on October 14, 2008 at 2:29 PM
These two movies may just encourage more conservatives to vote.
The blub for W states it is based upon a true storey. I thought it was based upon one of the hatchet job books.
davod on October 14, 2008 at 2:34 PM
We need to start our understanding by realizing that any idea is “dangerous” if you do not believe in it. This is true of all philosophy. Socialism is seen as evil and dangerous by some, as capitalism is also seen that way by the opposing side. Ideas do not need to be seen as religious to have the “danger” sign place on them by their detractors.
The real question is how you want your society to function. There are only two ways to get people to behave in a socially acceptable manner. They must either do it willingly or they must be forced.
Throughout history the best way to get somebody to act a certain way willingly is to embed it into their moral and ethical ideas. This is what religion does. It uses the concept of a higher power to make the rules unassailable by man, which is important to avoid moral relativism.
Rules laid down by man will never be accepted by those that disagree with them because no man has the right to impose themselves on all others. Therefore you must have a higher power to be an authority that man cannot challenge for this to work. So you have to force people to obey if they disagree.
In a nutshell, secular ethics will always lead eventually to a police state. It has happened in every society where religion is not allowed freely. No matter how altruistic the originators of a system might be, it will always become corrupted by the unscrupulous. Even our own system suffers this today. Eventually the leadership becomes unscrupulous enough to become oppressive.
So if you want freedom and free will, religion is a critical and necessary part of society in order to regulate behavior through free will. The other option is a police state that is simply not acceptable.
Hawthorne on October 14, 2008 at 2:36 PM
I don’t like to reference movies too much. But one of my favorite bits to any movies is a Harrison Ford scene from “Witness”. A guy is hassling the Amish who Ford is hiding amongst. He gives the guy a sharp smack to the nose and pretty much drops him like a sack of potatoes. It’s unexpected behavior from a guy the bully thought was Amish. Although it’s never appropriate to physically hit first, but I like to think Christians can be like that in at least the figurative sense and still be true to their faith.
Some of my friends disagree. I could be off track here, but one thing I do know is true. The New Testament authors were very forceful in their writings. I should probably be more of a witness but it’s difficult being military. Having said that, anytime atheists pursue you with their ideology and aspiration to dissuade you from your beliefs, fight back. And hard!
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 2:36 PM
Neither of these guys is interested in anything beyond seeing how many problems they can cause. If they were interested in a debate they would be offering something beyond lame insults.
Don’t give them the attention that they crave.
MarkTheGreat on October 14, 2008 at 2:36 PM
WTF are you talking about?
ronsfi on October 14, 2008 at 2:39 PM
Gotta love trolls!
They spew all kinds of hate and lies and then get upset when they’re called on it.
Hypocrites indeed!
Religious_Zealot on October 14, 2008 at 2:44 PM
Last time I checked you were “lol”! Has something happened to incur your displeasure. I’m sure your idols are very pleased with you.
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 2:47 PM
Why is it so important that you make me upset? What drives that need? Also being an atheist, I don’t worship gods. That would be you. Try and keep up.
ronsfi on October 14, 2008 at 2:50 PM
Me?
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 2:51 PM
This, you atheist fundamentalist:
Back up your words. I’m an agnostic, by the way. I’ve no dog in this game other than annoyance with ignorant statements about faith from both atheists and theists. There’s zealots on both sides, and you so far are proving to be one of them.
MadisonConservative on October 14, 2008 at 2:53 PM
No, that’s what you would do if you were God.
baldilocks on October 14, 2008 at 2:56 PM
I don’t think I’ve ever heard a theologian or pastor say anything close to this.
Maybe what you are misunderstanding is the Christian understanding that “ethics” come from God.
Your disbelief doesn’t detract from the reality of God’s existence.
I’m not sure I see whatever it is that you’re trying to get at.
I think what you’re trying to say here is that if we WANT to do something and then DON’T solely out of a fear of God (or something), then we are not decent people.
Well, that would not only be incorrect but a gross oversimplification of Christian teachings and belief.
We are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God, that much is true.
And yes, sometimes our love (or fear) of God is the only thing that stops us from doing something wrong.
However, the point is that once we understand that such a thing is wrong, we will continue to fight the urge to do so and work toward a point where, hopefully, we no longer have the urge to do that thing.
That said, even if we never get there, not acting on our urges is a good and decent thing.
I think there were be many people who are going to be a bit surprised come judgment day.
Religious_Zealot on October 14, 2008 at 3:00 PM
BL, I read your posts a lot and appreciate and enjoy them. You are the poster child for brevity being the soul of wit. Wish I were more like you. My fingers get tired.
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 3:01 PM
If you’ve no dog in the hunt then where are you snotty demands to back up the ridiculous pscyhobabble I was responding to. No you have a dog in the hunt that much is clear. If you didn’t then would not assume I was somehow ruling out the Muzzies. Which I don’t. The hate on display by so called religious believers in everyone of these type posts is exemplary of the violent response so often encountered by we Godless Heathens and is strikingly similar to the KOS commenters in tone and maturity. I have fun with it and nothing any of you say can make me upset or hurt in the least. My overwhelming response to such attempts is amusement mixed with compassion. I would hope your god would bring you more peace.
ronsfi on October 14, 2008 at 3:04 PM
Oops, that was meant for you.
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 3:04 PM
Dude, if it’s ridiculous pscyhobabble why do you even bother. Just observe from a distant and be amused.
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 3:06 PM
PS You were the one who heading out into the sunshine saying you didn’t like vemon. (Ironic) But, why did you come back then sugar-britches?
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 3:09 PM
Because it’s more amusing to play Whack a Troll.
WHACK!
ronsfi on October 14, 2008 at 3:10 PM
Lunch is over candy pants.
ronsfi on October 14, 2008 at 3:11 PM
WHACK!
ronsfi on October 14, 2008 at 3:11 PM
This is simply nonsense as an argument for religion. The religious have never stopped being evil for some reason in their religion. They just justify their evil with some other part of their religion.
Of course, social change happens and the religious are quick to claim that they changed their mind based on their religion, but I don’t believe it–anymore than I believe a dog told the Son of Sam to kill people. To take slavery, there was some European opposition to slavery and then the muslims started taking christians as slaves. The christians decided slavery was a bad idea, because they were angry over being victims of slavery–not some value that they devined from the New Testament. In fact, the Letter to Philemon strongly suggests slavery is perfectly acceptable. In ante-bellum South, I would hold that the pro-slavery Christians had the better arguments in terms of the Bible.
thuja on October 14, 2008 at 3:12 PM
You got your arms loose didn’t you?
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 3:13 PM
Hawk,
Stop feeding the trolls.
Religious_Zealot on October 14, 2008 at 3:20 PM
Really RZ? The thread was dead anyway. I needed something in between office projects to keep me sharp. I’m multi-tasking.
hawkdriver on October 14, 2008 at 3:26 PM
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