Future Palin son-in-law amazed at rumor mill
posted at 10:50 am on October 13, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Levi Johnston may only be 18 years old, but he has received a lifetime of political experience in the past seven weeks. Bristol Palin’s fiancé marvels at the attacks his new family has received in the election cycle, and tells the Associated Press that the conspiracy theories bear no relation to reality. He has not been abducted, he wants to marry Bristol, and he’s looking forward to life as a family man:
Levi Johnston, who’s having a baby with the daughter of Republican vice presidential candidate Gov. Sarah Palin, can’t believe all the things he’s hearing.
No, he wasn’t held against his will on the campaign trail. No, he’s not being forced into a shotgun wedding with 17-year-old Bristol Palin.
“None of that’s true,” Johnston, 18, said in a rare interview with The Associated Press. “We both love each other. We both want to marry each other. And that’s what we are going to do.”
And no, the McCain-Palin campaign is not scripting his answers, either. In fact, they would rather he not give interviews at this point, no doubt because of the insane rumors that the media has peddled about Bristol’s pregnancy and Sarah Palin’s maternity of Trig. Johnston appears to be his own man, though, and makes up his own mind about what he should and should not do.
Certainly, Levi and Bristol would have made news regardless of the mentally imbalanced writers who chose to speculate on pregnancies, paternity and maternity, and so on. However, the kind of allegations made against the Palins and Johnston, or about Johnston, would have reduced more seasoned politicians to fury or tears. Johnston’s equanimity speaks well about him and his future as a husband and father.
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The Democrats have big, brass, shiny balls for coming out and lambasting the Republicans for “anger” at Republican rallies after their completely unhinged treatment of the Palin family. The press are simply cowards who are in the tank. This whole affair is shameful.
Outlander on October 13, 2008 at 10:54 AM
Remember when everyone was saying how the pregnancy was going to ruin McCain’s campaign?
lodge on October 13, 2008 at 10:54 AM
Esto vir, Levi. ESTO VIR!!
Charles Martel on October 13, 2008 at 10:54 AM
The kid is taking responsibility and wants to be married to the mother of his child. Thank God, he decided to accept to “punishment“.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 13, 2008 at 10:58 AM
Levi was a high school hockey stud, wasn’t he? Perhaps he should be advising Steve Schmidt on how to win a campaign.
a capella on October 13, 2008 at 10:58 AM
Smart man, smart man.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 13, 2008 at 10:59 AM
I find it funny that they’re still thinking he’s being forced to ’shotgun wed’ Bristol. And yet, they ignore the obvious that they were planned to be married for many months, prior to the pregnancy.
He even has her named tattooed on his ring finger, it was discernable at the RNC… and was clearly several months old.
Enoxo on October 13, 2008 at 11:00 AM
It sounds like Levi will fit in great with the Palin family. I wish the couple a wonderful life and happiness.
L
letget on October 13, 2008 at 11:01 AM
The treatment of Palin’s family by the media and the left is part of the reason for the backlash against Obama mentioned in the Headlines post.
Canadian Infidel on October 13, 2008 at 11:01 AM
The AP article probably boosted his ego a bit
lodge on October 13, 2008 at 11:02 AM
And we all owe the Palins and co. “Thanks.” They have shown great class and restraint in light of the gross conduct of the left. I hope to see more of them on the national political scene.
davidk on October 13, 2008 at 11:02 AM
They seem to be great kids and I sincerely wish them all of the love and happiness in the world. They just need to accept that there are jerks in the world and block them from their lives. I’ll bet Todd Palin would be terrific father-in-law!
Star20 on October 13, 2008 at 11:04 AM
Just when you start to lose all hope in todays youth,a reminder that plenty of them are pretty level headed for the most part.
budaside on October 13, 2008 at 11:05 AM
Even after years of observing left-wing news bias, I am still stunned at the viciousness of media attacks on this apparently well-adjusted extended family.
jgapinoy on October 13, 2008 at 11:05 AM
Having The Dude as your father-in-law? I wouldn’t know whether it would Teh Awesome or Teh Scary.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 13, 2008 at 11:06 AM
I also like how they use Bristol as a way to bash Gov. Palin saying “How do you like abstinence-only now!”
And yet they fail to realise that Bristol wasn’t taught abstinence-only.
Enoxo on October 13, 2008 at 11:10 AM
libs are out everywhere claiming how horrible Palin was as a pick, and they ‘would’ve voted for McCain if not for this lack of judgement” etc. Its amazing how rabid and insane she has made them, they are definitely spooked.
jp on October 13, 2008 at 11:11 AM
God bless these kids. They’re taking responsibility.
jencab on October 13, 2008 at 11:11 AM
Democraps and the MSM just can’t relate to the bond and love of marriage and family.
As far as I can tell, the Palin family reflects all of the qualities our founding fathers assumed were a given when they set the course for our great nation.
Just how bad are things in America today? Over half the population despises the Palins, yet loves Madonna the whore and Rosie the pig.
That bad.
fogw on October 13, 2008 at 11:12 AM
LOL! There’s the left’s NEW attack: Johnston is pro-marriage, pro-family, pro-baby, and pro-responsibility. How dare he!!! HOW DARE HE!!!
ErinF on October 13, 2008 at 11:13 AM
I want a T-shirt that says MSM FAIL.
Coronagold on October 13, 2008 at 11:13 AM
So this explains why Obama has a Soros tattoo on his nose?
Rovin on October 13, 2008 at 11:14 AM
Prayers for Levi and Bristol.
They’re going to need them!!!
I’m proud of them for doing right by their unborn child!
rightwingmom on October 13, 2008 at 11:15 AM
Mr. Johnston should stay in school. My sister thought she was too smart for school and quit. It took her years to realize that lack of a diploma made her ineligible for many jobs, and in other jobs the people with diplomas got a better starting salary.
This education is costing his family nothing they would not already be paying in taxes, and is a gem of incalculable worth. I treasure my high school education, especially after the costs of college.
Every degree you earn (diploma, bachelors, masters, phd) widens your horizons that much more and makes you that much more versatile and hireable.
Hopefully, the electrician’s apprenticeship program he has entered will give him some part of what he’s throwing away by not sticking with school that extra year.
unclesmrgol on October 13, 2008 at 11:16 AM
Bill Kristol has backed Palin all along. Today, he suggests that McCain should fire his campaign (I agree):
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/opinion/13kristol.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Maybe Levi’s our man.
BuckeyeSam on October 13, 2008 at 11:16 AM
No, rectal sphincter.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 13, 2008 at 11:16 AM
All the more reason to now FLIP THE TICKET, so we can win! Palin/McCain 08!
ErinF on October 13, 2008 at 11:17 AM
So this explains why Obama has a Soros tattoo on his nose?
Rovin on October 13, 2008 at 11:14 AM
DING, DING, DING! We have today’s winner folks!
Now I have to clean my screen!
calguyintexas on October 13, 2008 at 11:18 AM
Just for shiggles, I descended into the fever swamp of the comments section to this article at the Chicago Tribune. Nauseating display.
How the Left can portray itself as representing the interests of “ordinary people” (backhanded elitism quite intentional) is a head-scratcher. Their responses to these honest, hard-working, flawed, strong people simply drips with the most contemptible snobbery I have ever seen (and I went to NYU!).
Good luck to folks who live like this (which is most of us) if Democrats attain the unassailable power which is so frighteningly close to their grasp. They will surely need it when their Benevolent Overlords reign on their parade!
Noocyte on October 13, 2008 at 11:20 AM
Seems like a good kid.
t.ferg on October 13, 2008 at 11:24 AM
Levi Johnston made a mistake, but he is man enough to take responsibility for it.
Barack Obama doesn’t want girls to be “punished with a baby”. Barack Obama, the great Messiah of the Nation of Islam, has his manhood outshined by a teenager. Pathetic!
Steve Z on October 13, 2008 at 11:24 AM
So this explains why Obama has a Soros
tattoo onring in his nose.Fixed it for you. After Obama is elected, Soros pulls on the chain he has bought.
Steve Z on October 13, 2008 at 11:28 AM
He should have responded thusly:
“Thanks for the question. Actually, I’m thinking of dumping the Palin chick for the ultra-hot __________ that moved to the Carribean last year but has been continuing to collect a paycheck.”
CC
CapedConservative on October 13, 2008 at 11:30 AM
After what she’s gone through I wouldn’t blame her a bit if she never wanted to leave Alaska again. As a second term governor with more study on the national issues, I think she’d make a great candidate in 2012, but I don’t think the attacks and ugliness will get any better. I’ll vote for her and donate if she runs, but I almost would rather see her enjoy time with her great family and not have to put up with all this despicable behavior that’s been directed at her. It’s a great example of why we don’t get better candidates, because the good ones don’t want to subject themselves to this ugly process.
Dudley Smith on October 13, 2008 at 11:41 AM
It just warms the cockles of my heart for Social Cons to be advancing the traditional family values of illegitimate children and teenage marriage.
And, to be fair to the left here, it is my experience that eighteen year old boys do not have the maturity to make important decisions.
thuja on October 13, 2008 at 11:42 AM
The article doesn’t even mention the creepy stalkerish Obama supporters who used Gov. Palin’s stolen contact information and started calling Bristol’s cell phone. I don’t know where that family gets the strength to deal with such scum.
juliesa on October 13, 2008 at 11:44 AM
He’s marrying her and keeping the baby. How is that offensive or irresponsible? Yeah, I know, you’d feel a lot better if he dumped her after she had an abortion.
Tell that to our soldiers fighting and dying for our country.
Your moral barometer needs a tune-up.
fogw on October 13, 2008 at 11:49 AM
Speaking as a functional atheist (technical agnostic) here, allow me to point out that the central tenet of Christianity is the imperfection of man, and thus the need for grace. Errors in judgment in the context of love, followed by suboptimal decisions in the context of taking responsibility are not cause for derision. Putz.
A statement which, in the eyes of the Left, applies to all
subjectscitizens.Noocyte on October 13, 2008 at 11:51 AM
Thuja– we’ve been through the same thing in our family. No one likes the circumstances, but we don’t stop loving our children because of a pregnancy. And we truly celebrate the new life.
Do we wish that the babies were being brought up in a stable, married, two-parent household? Yes. But we love them and their parents, regardless.
And don’t underestimate 18 year old boys. Not all of them have been consigned to an artificially prolonged childhood by their parents and social environs.
obladioblada on October 13, 2008 at 11:53 AM
This line caught my attention:
So, not only is this kid (yes, kid) immature, shameless, and completely unaware of the world outside of his town, he’s also set for life. What a better way to get success than to get the daughter of the Governor and potential Vice President pregnant? This boy is the product of typical American parenting and American culture. It’s kids like this that remind me of the what the principle from The Breakfast Club: “You think about this: when you get old, these kids – when *I* get old – they’re going to be running the country. Now this is the thought that wakes me up in the middle of the night. That when I get older, these kids are going to take care of me.”
It’s no wonder socialism is on the rise in this country.
Send_Me on October 13, 2008 at 11:53 AM
We need a government agency to do that for them.
lodge on October 13, 2008 at 11:55 AM
Levi will make a good Palin :-). In fact, his girl ought to tell him his new last name will be… Palin!
You see, Palins are tough, resourceful, pro-life, graceful, mature beyond their years, ready to accept the mantle of leadership, honest and genuine.
Thank G*d for some Camelot right now, America could use it.
HotAirJosef on October 13, 2008 at 11:56 AM
Honor, love, respect are way over the head of the liberals. How sad when it becomes so obvious.
Hening on October 13, 2008 at 11:56 AM
Huh?
obladioblada on October 13, 2008 at 11:58 AM
I wouldn’t allow him anywhere near my daughter, unless he met the following rules:
1. He has to be a Christian and willing to be discipled by myself.
2. He has to have a job and health insurance.
3. He’d better show up with a ring.
Otherwise, he can pound sand and find some other guy’s daughter. One poorly made decision doesn’t necessitate another.
Send_Me on October 13, 2008 at 12:04 PM
Holy Bong Sniffers!
What goes on in that silly little head of yours?
fogw on October 13, 2008 at 12:05 PM
Levi has already been through more tough questioning that Obama.
V15J on October 13, 2008 at 12:05 PM
All the best to them! He should stay in school, though, and get that diploma, would be my only advice.
Part of the left’s rage against Gov. Palin and her family is because McCain didn’t pick another white guy to run with him, somebody they already knew about and knew how to attack them.
Man, am I ever glad my dad or mom weren’t in the public eye, politics or whatever else. As Republicans everything in our life would’ve been under scrutiny, and it sure wasn’t always pretty.
TeeDee on October 13, 2008 at 12:06 PM
Know what I think? I think this kid needs to hire the best lawyer he can find, grab a list of liberal newspapers and news outlets, put some campaign pundits to work sifting through search engines, and sue the ever living crap out of these rags, then sue that transvestite brit, Russell Brand.
After all is said and done, the democrats will be bankrupt, and the transfer of the Soros hedge fund wealth to the Palin family with be complete, they can use that money to run in 2012.
leetpriest on October 13, 2008 at 12:06 PM
I’m sorry, but you’ll have to be a little more specific.
Send_Me on October 13, 2008 at 12:06 PM
Will your daughter have any say in who she would like to marry, or is the decision all yours?
If it’s solely up to you, better start preparing your daughter for life as a nun.
fogw on October 13, 2008 at 12:09 PM
On the subject of birthing children, I wondered the other day about the statement of abortion that Obama is sooooooo in favor of, and has gone so far as to endorse the killing of born alive babies. You know that statement about not wanting his children punished with a baby. I am sure many HotAir folks have pointed this out already, but in any case I will say it again because I think it deserves to be hammered home, and that is if you follow Obama’s statement, the man is saying he is FOR KILLING HIS GRANDCHILDREN.
He said if his children made a mistake he would not want them punished with a baby, and I believe a large part of the PDS that we see is DIRECTLY tied to the fact that Sarah Palin and her family bring forth not only this deranged statement of Obama, but his entire record of being AGAINST LIFE and THE INNOCENT.
Question for the Obamamaniacs, if he cannot protect the most vulnerable, then how is he going to protect your paychecks, our nation, your free speech rights, our military, the world, our freedom? Hmmmmmmmm?
freeus on October 13, 2008 at 12:09 PM
How do we even know that the pregnancy of Bristol was a mistake for her and Levi? I’ve read enough to think that perhaps they wanted to be married, the Palins didn’t approve of the relationship and tried to keep them apart, and they forced the issue by getting pregnant. Would not be the first time a couple of headstrong kids in love did this. One of my best friends in high school and her boyfriend did the same thing. Parents thought they were too young to get married, so they got pregnant and then the parents went along. They’re happily married for 33 years with 4 kids and a couple of grandkids now.
rockmom on October 13, 2008 at 12:10 PM
At the moment, I’m wondering what prompted such a ridiculously worded question.
Send_Me on October 13, 2008 at 12:12 PM
Every ridiculous comment you made in your post.
fogw on October 13, 2008 at 12:16 PM
Levi is showing more maturity in his 17 or 18 years than a whole lot of Democrats nowadays – trapped in their perpetual adolescence. I’d take Levi and Bristol a thousand times over those jerks who paraded around in Philadelphia wearing “Sarah Palin is a C—” t-shirts.
What part of “assuming responsibility for your actions” don’t they (or some of YOU here) understand?
If 18 years old is old enough to vote, open a bank account or enter the armed forces…
newton on October 13, 2008 at 12:20 PM
I take my role as a father very seriously. I’ve been entrusted by God to bring up my children in such a way that they learn to fear God and put their faith in Him. So when the minister says, “Who gives this woman to be married?” I plan to take it seriously and not merely pay lip service to my obligations as a father to protect my daughter from irresponsible and hasty decisions. If you’re wondering where that question is derived, it’s from Numbers 30:3-5. It says, “Also if a woman makes a vow to the Lord, and binds herself by an obligation in her father’s house in her youth, and her father hears her vow and her obligation by which she has bound herself, and her father says nothing to her, then all her vows shall stand and every obligation by which she has bound herself shall stand. But if her father should forbid her on the day he hears of it, none of her vows or her obligations by which she has bound herself shall stand; and the Lord will forgive her because her father had forbidden her.”
Here’s an excellent summary by Dr. Voddie Baucham, a pastor in Spring, TX, of some of these wedding/marriage traditions in their proper context.
Send_Me on October 13, 2008 at 12:23 PM
Just like Bristol’s dad, in many ways.
This is as “American man” as it can get here. But don’t tell that to Leftists. They don’t know how to be men, anyway: they subscribe to this “pampered princes” metrosexuality that is so alien to real men in this country.
newton on October 13, 2008 at 12:24 PM
I see that fallacies of relevance are a favorite among folks on this site. What, specifically, was wrong about what I said?
Send_Me on October 13, 2008 at 12:26 PM
That 5% gets all the attention by the press…they make it seem like over half but trust me even with the country being divided Madonna and Rosie are considered to be gross by a lot of lefties I know…
CCRWM on October 13, 2008 at 12:31 PM
Send_Me:
I would die to defend your right to practice your beliefs as you choose to live them. But I would be very, very annoyed in that last moment.
Good luck during her teens!
Noocyte on October 13, 2008 at 12:31 PM
Judge not lest ye…
I don’t know… I’m no expert on religion, but you sound more Taliban than Christian…
CC
CapedConservative on October 13, 2008 at 12:33 PM
I actually think the MSM is pretty much blind to their own hypocrisy. Essentially, you are *supposed* to hate Republicans and love Obama. So when someone says something less then positive about Obama it is a big deal, and when someone writes a story about assassinating the President or rants about wanting to see Sarah Palin gang raped it is understandable if “edgy”.
18-1 on October 13, 2008 at 12:35 PM
What’s he going to say? Yeah, we had an unplanned pregnancy and I’m being a man and doing the right thing by marrying her. Further, we probably wouldn’t be getting married if it wasn’t for the pregnancy. He obviously can’t say that, but it is probably the truth. I know a few friends that have been in similar situations and it is tough. I just hope it works out for these two as they will do more growing up in the next year that I have yet to do (at 25).
nazo311 on October 13, 2008 at 12:43 PM
So, not only is this kid (yes, kid) immature, shameless, and completely unaware of the world outside of his town, he’s also set for life. WRONG! Unless you can give me particulars.
What a better way to get success than to get the daughter of the Governor and potential Vice President pregnant? WRONG! How do you know those were his intentions? Are you God-like?
This boy is the product of typical American parenting and American culture. WRONG! As evidence I point to the fact that not every young American teenager is pregnant. In fact MOST ARE NOT. There goes your typical conclusion …. right down the drain.
It’s kids like this that remind me of the what the principle from The Breakfast Club: “You think about this: when you get old, these kids – when *I* get old – they’re going to be running the country. CORRECT, but there’s no alternative.
Now this is the thought that wakes me up in the middle of the night. That when I get older, these kids are going to take care of me.” WRONG! If you think the characters and actors in The Breakfast Club represent the youth of America, you’re way off base.
It’s no wonder socialism is on the rise in this country. WRONG! In a socialist state the government takes care of everyone. Levi Johnston wants to take responsibility for himself, marry his pregnant girlfried and get on with his life. He’s self-reliant, not a blood-sucking liberal.
Ever make a mistake in your life Mr. Cristianity? What happened to forgiveness? We’re all imperfect, and you’re a laughing stock.
fogw on October 13, 2008 at 1:02 PM
Doubtlessly you’re right about yourself and the majority of your generation, but that delayed adulthood was not the norm prior to the Baby Boomers and still isn’t in the self-sufficient sectors of our society. (I would guess that the hardy folks of Alaska are among the self-sufficient.)
It is fashionable for contemporary parents to prioritize individualism, self-expression and self-esteem. Prior generations of parents valued respect, responsibility and self-sufficiency. Not surprisingly, the offspring of those generations are dramatically different.
There’s also a vast difference between an 18 year old Alaskan and an 18 year old New Yorker. I suspect you’d find the Alaskan to be at least more self-sufficient.
obladioblada on October 13, 2008 at 1:09 PM
Mr. Send-Me doesn’t have grown children (if he does have children, they’re younger than teenagers.) The kind of arrogant expectations he puts on his offspring indicate a man who is unformed himself, who believes his children are objects under his control.
I’ve known several men like that, unfortunately. The tighter they hold on, the more autocratic they become, the more frustrated and unloved their children feel, until they burst free.
There is nothing Christian about this philosophy. You see it in athiest families and Muslim families. It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with control. And it fails every time.
bonnie_ on October 13, 2008 at 1:22 PM
“You say, ‘Judge not lest ye be judged.’ But I say, ‘Twist not Scripture lest ye be like Satan.’”
~Unknown
Matthew 7:1-4, the text to which you refer, is talking about hypocrisy. This verse is not saying that we shouldn’t judge. Rather, it’s stating how we should judge. It’s saying that we should not be hypocrites when judging others. A drunk should not correct another drunkard. If you’re an adulterer, then you should not judge a prostitute “[f]or in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.” Christians are called to “bear one another’s burdens” (Galatians 6:2) and call a spade a spade. We’re called to hold one another accountable.
Before saying that I sound like the Taliban, how about making an effort to understand Christian beliefs first?
Send_Me on October 13, 2008 at 1:33 PM
Admittedly, things that are written are more likely to be misinterpreted. However, your explanations show a very literal and strict understanding of laws laid down in scripture, but do little to indicate that you embrace a Christianity beyond legalisms. The love of God and your neighbor as yourself is not apparent in your writings.
obladioblada on October 13, 2008 at 2:02 PM
First, thank you for the response.
Immature: “They’re not telling me anything right now,” Johnston said as he checked his Blackberry. “It’s pretty chill.” How about giving respect to the reporter, the person with whom he is speaking?
“Asked about Barack Obama, he replied: ‘I don’t know anything about him. He seems like a good guy. I like him.’
But Johnston still rooting for John McCain and Sarah Palin.
‘I just hope she wins,’ he said. ‘She’s my future mother-in-law. She better win.’” This line of thinking about something as serious as a Presidential election doesn’t speak well of one’s maturity.
“Not surprisingly, Johnston was a little shocked when he learned about Bristol’s pregnancy, but he says he quickly embraced the prospects of fatherhood. The baby is due Dec. 18. Johnston has dropped out of high school to take a job on the North Slope oil fields as an apprentice electrician.”
He was “a little shocked”? What did he think was going to happen? Teenage pregnancy is an immature act in and of itself. It’s saying, “oh, it’ll never happen to me” without regard to reality. Also, he’s embracing fatherhood by dropping out of high school? Granted, one can make descent money as an electrician, but one doesn’t set themselves up for success in life by dropping out of high school. I could go on.
Shameless: Why is he showing up on stage during the RNC Convention? It’s like saying, “Hey everybody, I’m that guy who got the Governor’s daughter pregnant.”
“Johnston said he wasn’t forced to campaign with Palin’s mother. Bristol Palin invited him and Johnston jumped at the chance. It was a whirlwind experience for Johnston, who was seated with the Palins at the Republican National Convention.” So, even though he has no idea what either side believes, has no regard for political philosophy or public policy, he “jumps at the chance” to campaign with the Palins?
Unaware: Not knowing what Obama, or even McCain/Palin, believes, as an 18 yr. old, is a pretty good clue to me that he just doesn’t care for anything outside of his own little world.
I meant this with a bit of sarcasm, but really, why would he “jump at the chance” to be seen at campaign events and the RNC Convention?
“While Barber said his friend is a celebrity now, Johnston said it hasn’t changed him. ‘I’m still the same old boy,’ said Johnston. ‘I’m just a workin’ man.’” I agree with the first part of Johnston’s statement.
True, not every girl between 13-18 is pregnant, and not every similar aged boy is getting girls pregnant. I also, don’t consider this to be standard for success in terms of how well I raise my children. I’m saying that this kid’s obvious lack of shame, maturity, and awareness is typical of American teens, regardless of whether he got a girl pregnant or not. I mean, what’s the message here on this site? “Kids, don’t get pregnant, but it’s ok if you do. We won’t judge.” If maturity is defined by carrying a baby full term, then God help us. Even Obama had that one right: “any fool can have a baby.”
Can’t change this? Homeschooling, developing a Biblical worldview (something our people used to have), fathers taking an active role in their children’s upbringing…
Socialism is on the rise because of the immaturity, unawareness, shamelessness and lack of education of our growing children. He obviously does not care enough to even know about Obama, much less understand the tenets of socialism, its guises, and repercussions.
Yep, I’ve made plenty of mistakes. I have nothing for which to forgive this lad. Here’s the difference between me and even most churches: I choose not to glory in my sin, my iniquities, my shame. I choose to do all I can to follow Christ, knowing full well that at times I may fail, but I never lose sight of the prize. I challenge you with this: show me one place in the New Testament that talks about a “carnal Christian”.
Send_Me on October 13, 2008 at 2:27 PM
I think that’s the first time I’ve ever seen anyone critique their own commentary. That’s weird.
And why should I care what distinguishes you from most churches? You are really full of yourself pal. Pompous better-than-thou preachers like you are the ones who chase people away from Christianity.
Have fun rooting for Obama and slamming young men who don’t have a chance of living up to the far superior standards of an unforgiving religious zealot.
Bite me, I’ve got better things to do with my time.
fogw on October 13, 2008 at 3:26 PM
Here is what the Bible says: Children are born sinful (Psalm 51:5). We’ve been entrusted by God to make our children aware of their sin, the gravity of their need for a savior, and who Jesus is. I am not saying that we are somehow saved by being sinless, but only by the grace of Jesus Christ (Acts 15:11). However, God has given us a set of instructions on how to live (2 Timothy 3:16). His intent is not only to expose our waywardness, but also to protect us from the consequences of such actions (Romans 7:7, Deuteronomy 6:2). As parents, we choose to impart our children with the same instruction and discipline (Deuteronomy 6:6-9). As Proverbs 13:24 states: “He who withholds his rod hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines him diligently.” This does not mean that we are authoritarian disciplinarians that strive to pound our children into perfect little automatons. We hope and pray that through our role as parents, that our children will discover the freedom that there is in Christ, the joy of a relationship with Him, and the security of being in His will.
That being said, how does having standards for a suitor for our future daughters not show my love for them? You’re right, I don’t have any older children. I do, however, have a wife whom I have respected the way I expect my future daughters to be respected. My wife knew that I loved her because she saw that I respected her father by asking his permission to marry her. My wife knew that I loved her in how I chose to guard her emotionally and physically by staying celibate until our marriage night. She knew that I loved her because if I could wait until our marriage night, just as she did for me, that I’d never stray. I showed her that I loved her by making sure I could provide for our family, could lead a Biblical household, and had a ring to show my commitment to her. How are any of these things not an act of love toward my wife? And how are these expectations of a suitor not an act of love toward my daughter?
Should she become pregnant, I will not disown her, neither to the streets nor to some schmuck who got her pregnant. Just because he got her pregnant does not mean that he’s qualified to be her husband. She is still my daughter under my household. Now, after 18 years of living in a loving, morally-structured home, if she chooses not to respect my responsibility in giving my blessing for whom she marries, then that’s her choice. Sadly, being unequally yoked has its potential consequences.
Ms. Bonnie, we only have them for a short period of time. You do the best you can while you have them, ultimately fully entrusting them to God’s hands.
Send_Me on October 13, 2008 at 3:38 PM
You’ll have to explain this one. So by showing how Antonio Gramsci’s cultural hegemony theories are coming to fruition here in the U.S., I’m somehow supporting Obama?
I guess you couldn’t find one.
Send_Me on October 13, 2008 at 3:44 PM
1. Are you saying that I misinterpreted Scripture? If so, how?
2. Is the Bible not the inerrant, infallible Word of God?
3. “The love of God and your neighbor as yourself is not apparent in your writings.” Thanks for saying this. It’s a struggle to speak the truth in love on a computer where words are black and white. Tone and other forms of non-verbal communication are absent in this medium. How would you suggest overcoming this obstacle? I truly wish to show communicate God’s love for people through what I say, yet, at the same time, not compromise the integrity of Scripture.
Send_Me on October 13, 2008 at 3:48 PM
“Send_Me”
just be sure to save this thread for when your teen daughter infoms you that she’s pregnant …
/massive eyeroll
Buckaroo on October 13, 2008 at 4:56 PM
And why in God’s name did Sarah NOT teach Bristol about Abstinence-only ESPECIALLY when Sarah herself went through the experience of being preggers before marriage???!!!
They are the family of the absurd!
Shelby on October 13, 2008 at 5:20 PM
I don’t want to get into a scriptural food fight here, but there are references to carnality among Christians in the New Testament. I’ll grant you that the word carnal does not appear immediately before the word Christian in the three places the latter appears in the New Testament, but Paul called himself carnal in Romans 7:14, and he was certainly a Christian. First Corinthians is all about carnality among Christian believers. It’s that great human failing that Christians have struggled with since the foundation of the Church.
jackmac on October 13, 2008 at 5:30 PM
So what would you do if your daughter came home pregnant?
Here is what I said I would do:
What would you do instead?
Send_Me on October 13, 2008 at 5:33 PM
Amen and good posts, Send_Me! I believe it is beyond hypocritical when the “moral majority Christians” criticize the Dems, yet look the other way at the sins of both mother and daughter Palin.
BTW, I am pro-life and NOT voting for either Obama or McCain, so save your “ballistic baby killer” responses for someone else!
Shelby on October 13, 2008 at 5:42 PM
To clarify, this comment was intended for the rabid Sarah supporters, not for Send_Me, with whom I agree.
Shelby on October 13, 2008 at 5:52 PM
Thanks for putting the time into your response. I agree with you that Paul does speak of his sinful nature, especially in Romans 7 where he speaks of “not practicing what [he] would like to do, but [he is] doing the very thing he hate[s]“. I should have been clearer. The point I was trying to make was that, yes, while carnality is referenced quite often in the New Testament, there is also one common adjoining theme: hate for sin. Paul admitted his struggle, yet focused on his desire to overcome it. He says at the end of Romans 7: “Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.” Jesus said, “you will know them by their fruits.” If one claims to be a Christian, he must not only acknowledge his own sin, which even Satan does, but must also repent and strive to live according to Christ’s commands. If one is a Christian, he should expect to see changes in his life. My warning was against typical view that sin isn’t really that bad. Some verses along the lines of what I’m saying are: John 14:15, Ephesians 5:5, James 2:14-17, Matthew 7:15-23, 1 John 3:6-9.
Send_Me on October 13, 2008 at 6:42 PM
“Shelby on October 13, 2008 at 5:42 PM”
and duh1 thanks you for your non-vote …
/morons — i’m surrounded by morons …
Buckaroo on October 13, 2008 at 6:53 PM
At this point, I don’t see what I’m losing if McCain loses. I mean, he sponsored McCain-Feingold and McCain-Kennedy; he supports “Living Constitution” judges (voted to confirm Breyer and Ginsburg and has praised O’Connor); he’s “pro-life” yet supports embryonic stem cell research; he’s a global warming apologist; he receives an F- from the Gun Owners of America for 2nd Amendment issues for many reasons; he has very well-known populist views of economics; he was a member of the “Gang of 14″; he voted for the $700+ billion pork chop, which was unconstitutional, unwise, and unjust in so many ways; and he didn’t even vote on the Clean [non-]Energy Act of 2007.
Just like with the rest of Congress, I’m not going to support someone who’s bailed on the values to which I’m dedicating my life to defending. If neither Obama nor McCain, or Democrats or Republicans for that matter, are supporting what I support, then I haven’t the slightest hesitation with seeking life elsewhere. I just wish more had the courage to do so. Most are more concerned with not losing what little we have left instead of trying to win.
No wonder people here are so angry. They see that Republicans aren’t “conservative”, but feel they must still vote for McCain who clearly is not supportive of their values. And people claim I’m throwing my vote away… At least threaten him with the possibility that you won’t vote for him unless he supports more “conservative” ideas, otherwise why should he care what you think? He has you hook, line, and sinker because he knows that no matter what he does, what he says, what ideas and policies he supports that “conservatives” will always vote for him and any other Republican because all he has to say is, “well, it’s either me or that other guy.”
I understand the frustration, but rather than give in to a career politician like McCain who supports nothing that you do, why not at least threaten him with the potentiality that you’ll go 3rd party instead, voting on principle, not out of fear of losing what little “conservatives” have left.
Imagine for a moment if all “conservatives” took a chance by voting on principle and elect a 3rd party candidate who actually values what they do. And if that 3rd party candidate loses, well, at least the Republicans would have the wake-up call that is needed for them to return to “conservative” values. I wish more folks would vote out of principle instead of fear.
Send_Me on October 13, 2008 at 8:04 PM
You’re losing President Obama, of course. Did you really think you had more than two choices for President?
Then you’re not going to support anyone, period. This is politics. You’re not going to find anyone who’s never fallen short in some way.
If you refuse to vote for McCain because of his flaws, that’s your choice. But by rejecting McCain, you’re saying in practical terms that Obama winning is fine with you. If Obama wins and starts pushing an agenda you find immoral, such as gay marriage, restrictions on religious liberty, socialism, etc., then please try to remember that was one of the foreseeable consequences of your vote.
Practically speaking, voting third party for President is throwing the election to Obama. You can say you’re standing on principle, but government deals in the practical. Your role in the government is to vote. Use it wisely. I’d argue that voting third party is voting fooolishly.
Wise or foolish, though, it’s your vote.
theregoestheneighborhood on October 13, 2008 at 9:27 PM
How’s this:
That was easy!
theregoestheneighborhood on October 13, 2008 at 9:33 PM
Now one for you, Send_Me:
Start with Genesis chapter 34:1-7
So this young pagan man sees Dinah, and apparently forces her to have sex with him. And quite obviously, the Bible nowhere gives the impression that this is anything but wrong.
But he falls in love with her, and wants her for his wife. The full story is of course rather shocking, and Dinah’s brothers, Levi and Simeon, really overreact. No one defends their overreaction, though I can at least sympathize with their question at the end, “Should he deal with our sister as with an harlot?”
But I call your attention to verse 19:
So this young man forces Dinah, which is obviously wrong, yet the Bible — not some interpreter, but the Scripture itself — calls him more honourable than the rest of his family.
So if what he did was so bad, — and it was — why is he given praise as at least a somewhat honourable man? Does God look at this sinner, and see something good in him? Like the fact that, having done wrong, he now wants to do the right thing?
If the Scripture seems willing to forgive him, I think we should be able to forgive this young man.
I’ll agree that too many people are too blase about premarital sex, and teenage pregnancies. But a generation ago, the stigma was much more severe, and it still happened.
And for all the faults of this young man being interviewed that you’re so exercised by, he apparently never even thought about abandoning his girlfriend and baby. He’s made a bad start of it all, but he at least seems willing to do the right thing from here on.
I just know that if it were me in the Palins’ position — and I doubt I’ll ever be in that position, to my daughter’s credit — I would be willing to stand by the young man if he were willing to stand by my daughter and raise my grandchild. I would probably have a few things to say to him, but I can almost guarantee they would be said privately. Publicly, my rule would probably be to say absolutely no more on the subject than required.
I just don’t think it would be realistic to expect a public statement to be made about how wrong it all is. Would you publicly embarrass your own children like that?
theregoestheneighborhood on October 13, 2008 at 10:07 PM
Thank you for the response.
Yes, the carnality of man is addressed, but like I pointed out above, I was speaking towards the doctrine of “carnal Christianity”. Adolph Hitler may have prayed some little prayer when he was 9 years old, but he had no fruits in his life that lead us to the conclusion that he was saved. Saying that he was saved is not Biblical.
“The young man did not delay to do the thing, because he was delighted with Jacob’s daughter. Now he was more respected than all the household of his father.” In other words: virtue among whores. Just because it’s printed in Scripture, does not mean it’s a paradigm for life. Three things to consider for Biblical interpretation: (1) Context, (2) Text can’t mean what it never meant, and (3) Narrative is not normative.
Saying that Shechem was somehow “forgiven” is not accurate. Yes, he kept his end of the deal here, but that doesn’t make him “honorable” in the eyes of God. He’s merely more “honorable” than anyone else in his father’s house, which isn’t saying much. The Hivites were not good people by any stretch of the imagination here. Shechem was not forgiven by God for his actions.
Also, considering that Master Johnston didn’t rape anybody, I suppose he would be more “honorable” than Shechem. But that’s besides the point.
I have nothing for which to forgive this kid. He hasn’t wronged me in any way. If he seeks forgiveness, that’s between God, Mr. Palin, and Miss Palin.
Yep, and I can assure you, if you read Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Joshua, 1 & 2 Samuel, Judges, 1 & 2 Kings, 1 & 2 Chronicles…, you’ll see how the Israelites failed numerous times and the stigmas and punishments were far more severe than they are now. I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make here. You admit that too many young people are too “blase” about premarital sex and the like, so I know you’re not saying that we should abandon all efforts to raise our kids right.
Are these things really our measure for morality nowadays? Is this all it takes? This goes back to Gramsci’s ideas concerning cultural hegemony.
In reference to this specific situation, I hope the kid and his future wife and child make it. I’m hopeful that God will use this time to draw them to Himself.
Now, I’m doubtful that dropping out of high school was the most mature thing to do. My points above were to show that he seems woefully immature, shameless, and unaware of the world. Also, later, I explained how I would handle the situation if it were my daughter.
I’d probably refrain from putting out a press release concerning the matter as well. I’d probably also not bring him with me to the Republican National Convention to parade him around either.
Send_Me on October 13, 2008 at 11:38 PM
I agree that Obama is a loser, but also, please, keep this in mind if McCain wins and enacts amnesty, global warming reduction policies, nominates more judges like the one’s for whom he’s voted/given support before, etc. Let me know how giving 10 million illegal aliens citizenship will not leave a permanent scar on this country. The Republicans will lose more seats in the house in 2010 and 2012, and I assure you, no Republican will have a chance at getting elected in 2012 in the White House. So after enduring another “lesser of two evils”, we’ll yet again be faced with the likes of Obama, which will be much worse since the Republicans won’t have any power left in Congress to halt any Obama legislative ideas, judges, or policies. So yes, please remember this if McCain gets elected.
Rather than talking about how bad McCain is and how much we should still vote for him, how about focusing on the Congressional races, which will greatly improve the odds of avoiding amnesty, increased taxes, global warming garbage, “living Constitution” judge confirmations, etc.?
The advantage that liberals have: they have tactical patience. Don’t believe me? Look around at how many freedoms of ours have eroded over the years because we’ve stopped voting on principle and for the “lesser of two evils”. Liberals don’t care. They’ll wait. They’ll whittle away a little here and there, until one day “conservatives” will look around and say, “hey, how’d we get here?” “Conservatives” have gotten here because of their shortsightedness and apathy, nothing more.
Send_Me on October 13, 2008 at 11:46 PM
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