Obama is an American. No, really. Update: Shocker – Berg a truther?

posted at 11:21 am on October 12, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

I really thought we’d put this conspiracy theory to rest over the summer, but it has arisen like a zombie yet again to suck the credibility out of the conservative blogosphere. I have had at least 40 e-mails begging me to watch this video featuring Phillip Berg, a PUMA suing Barack Obama and the Democratic Party to prove Obama’s citizenship — even though Obama has already produced a certification of live birth from Hawaii that would get him a passport any day of the week:

Last week, we got tons of e-mail purporting to claim that Berg had won in court and Obama had three days to produce proof of citizenship. It turned out that someone had posted an exemplar of the order, produced by the plaintiff in case the judge granted their motion.  In other words, it meant nothing, and neither does this.

Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961, making him a natural-born citizen of the United States.  Hawaii’s certification of live birth proves this, as Allahpundit and I have both noted this summer.  Fact Check also verified it, although the video does its best to undermine that by noting the connection to the Annenberg Foundation.  By the way, Berg and the video manage to mangle this, too, by claiming Obama sat on the board of the Annenberg Foundation itself and distributed their funding.  He ran the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, one of the foundation’s beneficiaries. (The St. Petersburg Times also verified the certification independently.)

Wouldn’t it be nice if we had a contemporaneous corroboration of Obama’s Hawaii birth?  As it happens, we do — provided by another PUMA who wanted to find ways to disqualify Obama.  Lori Starfelt found this in the archives of the Honolulu Advertiser in a print copy from August 1961:

Unless people want to start claiming that the conspiracy to have Barack Obama infiltrate the political system started at the moment of his birth, that’s pretty conclusive evidence that Obama was born in the US and is a natural-born citizen.

I already know some of the rebuttals that will fly through the comments, so let me address them here:

  • A court is hearing this case, so it must be serious — Any fool with a lawyer and a couple of hundred dollars can file a lawsuit.  That’s one of the reasons why tort reform is so badly needed.  Frivolous lawsuits cost consumers billions of dollars.  Conservatives used to make that argument, at least until Phillip Berg filed this lawsuit.
  • Why isn’t Obama answering the lawsuit? — Maybe because it’s ridiculous, and Berg has no standing to file it anyway.
  • Why not produce the birth certificate? — Obama has … twice now, once on his website and once to Fact Check.
  • Well, then, why didn’t he produce it sooner, smart guy? — Sooner than what?  This came up at the end of the primaries, and the Obama campaign produced it within a couple of weeks.  So far, that hasn’t done much to quell the conspiracy theories.
  • Why not produce the original birth certificate? — Most people, I’d wager, don’t have their own original birth certificate.  If you applied to get your records, in most states you’d get what Obama has – a certification of live birth spit out from a computer system.  I doubt Hawaii has the original record any longer, either.  The certification proves citizenship well enough to get a passport.

Let’s stop chasing absurd conspiracy theories that make it more difficult to win the real arguments in this election.  Stick to Obama’s absurd theories on national security, his radical political allies, and his disastrous economic policies that will make these past few weeks seem like a breeze.  He’s the wrong man for the job, but still an American.

Update: To answer another question (reasonably asked in the comments), Barack Obama’s Indonesian stepfather could not have revoked Obama’s birthright as an American citizen, no matter what he told the school Obama attended.

Screw Loose Change has dealt with Phillip Berg before.  It turns out that Berg thinks Bush and Cheney either created 9/11 or let it happen deliberately.  Conspiracy theory nuts don’t usually stop at one paranoid fantasy, and this demonstrates it.  It turns out he has quite a history of lawsuits and publicity stunts, and this was written at the beginning of 2007. (via Public Secrets)


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The newspaper clipping proves nothing.

Obviously Obama’s mom wanted him to be a US citizen, otherwise she would not have attempted to fly back before his birth and was not allowed to board the aircraft (which is not disputed), what is in dispute is whether she boarded another flight. If she was NOT able to board another flight and come home before his birth, she flew home shortly after his birth and got a birth certificate from a local hospital by showing up with a baby and saying “hey, I just gave birth to this baby” then OF COURSE she would want to back it up with whatever she could, including a birth announcement in the local newspaper. It’s a while lot EASIER to pay the couple of bucks for the classified ad than it is to get the birth certificate.

The actual birth certificate, on file at the hospital (at one time anyway, who knows where it is now), probably said “born at home” or “delivered by mid-wife” or whatever.

The point is this: It doesn’t matter what Obama does. The MSM does not care, will not report. He was a member of a socialist party, he did not object to 20 years of anti-american rants in a freaking church no less, he launched his career in Ayers house, he in his own voice reads from his books on how to manipulate white people, that “white folks greed runs a world in need”, he was part of ACORN, got almost a BILLION in earmarks in only 3 years which has to be some kind of record, my god the guy voted to put live babies in closets until they are dead and NOBODY IN THE MSM GIVES A SH1T. The won’t report it.

I underestimated the power of the MSM, they f*cking win already, ok? It doesn’t matter WHAT Obama does, they JUST DON’T CARE, they want him to win and that’s it.

I will vote McCain, I’m in MO so it’s important that I continue to win votes for him, which I do, every day. It takes time and effort and pisses me off but I do it, because in 10 years I don’t want to look back and think I should have done more. But face it, people, we live in a society of SHEEP where scores of people are too stupid to lift up their heads and see what’s good for them. I’ll fight to the end, but I’m not optimistic. We ALL need to fight to the end, if only McCain would fight it’d be a hell of a lot easier.

JustTruth101 on October 12, 2008 at 4:07 PM

I thought the New Party Kenyan was married. Ace thinks he may have a girlfriend.

The Obama Girlfriend Story: It’s Real

JiangxiDad on October 12, 2008 at 4:08 PM

That’s a very interesting photograph. I think it undercuts the idea that he was a member of the New Party, though. I have seen printed references to him as a New Party member, but that caption indicates that he was merely endorsed by them.

The communist/socialist groups in America just about always endorse the Democrat in any race, as far as I know. They do in presidential elections, at least.

capitalist piglet on October 12, 2008 at 3:46 PM

Will this do? (Scroll down to “Chicago New Party Update”)

“Once approved, candidates must sign a contract
with the NP. The contract mandates that they must have a visible and active relationship with the NP.”

I don’t think this is a game-changer, (since it’s apparently too complex for a polltician to understand, much less explain) but it’s discouraging that people give up so quickly.

Nichevo on October 12, 2008 at 4:11 PM

Focusing on troofer fringe crap like this just makes it easier for Obama to discount the ACORN and Ayers stuff as being the same. Ed, Allah, and Charles over at LGF are absolutely correct to get front and center in debunking it.

Kind of like McCain did at that town hall in a way, huh?

funky chicken on October 12, 2008 at 4:12 PM

Califemme on October 12, 2008 at 3:57 PM

Well, you were how I found out about it. After looking at his info, I was still skeptical, and my wife called the phone # he provides while I was helping set up a church function. I expected it to be a voicemail, but she talked to him. Twice.

He is the real deal, not some little lawyer trying to play politics to enhance his career. He is an established professional, qualified to argue in front of the Supreme Court, and a political stunt would wreak havoc on his reputation.

At 5 weeks into this, it is compelling.

Oh, and I think this story will be on Fox tomorrow, he was just interviewed.

Marine_Bio on October 12, 2008 at 4:14 PM

A register independent…. just doesn’t have any cojones.

Just because he was born in Hawai’i, doesn’t make him Hawaiian either.

Obama is more Chicago corrupt than anything else or maybe like the California hippies that transplanted to Hawai’i.

It’s a nice try though, but I loath conspiracy theorist.

Kini on October 12, 2008 at 4:18 PM

Obama’s October Surprise

Califemme on October 12, 2008 at 4:25 PM

Will this do? (Scroll down to “Chicago New Party Update”)

“Once approved, candidates must sign a contract
with the NP. The contract mandates that they must have a visible and active relationship with the NP.”
I don’t think this is a game-changer, (since it’s apparently too complex for a polltician to understand, much less explain) but it’s discouraging that people give up so quickly.

Nichevo on October 12, 2008 at 4:11 PM

That’s what I was referring to when I said I had seen print references to his membership. I’m not giving up – I was just pointing out that the caption on the photo didn’t connect him as strongly as the other stuff that is out there.

capitalist piglet on October 12, 2008 at 4:33 PM

Focusing on troofer fringe crap like this just makes it easier for Obama to discount the ACORN and Ayers stuff as being the same. Ed, Allah, and Charles over at LGF are absolutely correct to get front and center in debunking it.

funky chicken on October 12, 2008 at 4:12 PM

I would agree with you if Ed, Allah, and Charles had actually debunked this story, but they haven’t. All they have done is point out obvious weaknesses in the story. They do not know the truth anymore than anyone else commenting here knows the truth. And that is precisely why the matter needs to be adjudicated in court.

As the editor of American Thinker put it:

Based on comments and email, it is evidently necessary to point out that Berg may or may not be correct in the factual assertions claimed in this video and, more importantly, in his court filings. Determining the factual basis is the responsibility of the court, based on filings provided by both parties. I have no way of knowing whether Berg is a kook on this issue or not.

The important point is that the Obama campaign has not chosen to confront Berg’s claims in a straightforward manner. That is a fact. Posting two different electronic images of an alleged birth certificate does not carry weight in court. Nor do the opinions of organizations like factcheck.org or snopes.com. The only version of a birth certificate that would matter is one submitted to court and attested to as valid, under penalty of perjury, and subject to forensic examination.

It may be the case that Berg is completely wrong. If so, the Obama campaign could have submitted documentation to the court quashing this case. Instead, it has chosen to engage in a legal strategy of delay. Why would they do this if Obama’s documentation were in order? Why would they only provide electronic (so far as I know) copies to friendly sources? Perhaps someone can explain that satisfactorily, but I cannot.

flyfisher on October 12, 2008 at 4:34 PM

Marine_Bio on October 12, 2008 at 4:14 PM

Awesome!! I want answers, not just a lynching!!

Califemme on October 12, 2008 at 4:41 PM

A commenter at Ace reports that his Martinique-exiled girlfriend is one Vera Baker.

http://capecaribbean.com/About_Us.html

JiangxiDad on October 12, 2008 at 4:43 PM

flyfisher on October 12, 2008 at 4:34 PM

Zactly. Asked, not answered. That’s all I want, proof. McCain did so, so it should be not so hard for Barry, no?

Califemme on October 12, 2008 at 4:44 PM

From Hillbuzz on Vera Baker.

JiangxiDad on October 12, 2008 at 4:46 PM

A commenter at Ace reports that his Martinique-exiled girlfriend is one Vera Baker.

http://capecaribbean.com/About_Us.html

JiangxiDad on October 12, 2008 at 4:43 PM

A Google image search for that name turns up pictures of Whoopi Goldberg, for some reason. I don’t know why that strikes me as funny, but it does. Maybe it’s picturing Whoopi and Barack together as a couple that is so funny.

capitalist piglet on October 12, 2008 at 4:47 PM

Humm, I think we are all missing the point. These two men are applying for a job. “WE” are the employer. WE set the standards for the job that they are applying for. The job requirements for almost any job require proof of Citizenship, valid ID, educational verification, experience, etc.,depending on the job. Jobs requiring a security clearance have an extensive back ground check (and a lot of neighbors asking you questions afterward). POTUS does require a security clearance. Have they met the criteria for the job they are applying for? It is YOUR company they are representing daily, would you hire them.

I would personally smile politely, thank them for their interest and tell them “I don’t believe you would fit in for the job I’m trying to fill.” “NEXT!”

How many of you have applied for a job where you were required to provide educational transcripts, drivers lic., SSN, had to take a personality profile, IQ test, provide verification of previouse employment, take a loyalty oath, and been subjected to an FBI or NASA security back ground check? Oh, almost forgot, if you were in the military, you went through most if not all of this.

Mr. McCain, you seem qualified, but don’t necessaraly meet our company profile. Mr. Obama, Im sorry, you don’t meet the requirments of this job.

N4646W on October 12, 2008 at 4:48 PM

capitalist piglet on October 12, 2008 at 4:47 PM

It’s pretty frustrating having to give two shits where he puts his dipstick, but not too many of our fellow citizens seem to care that he’s a racist, radical leftist. But this was the only thing that brought Edwards down, so if there’s some truth to the story, it has to be pursued.

JiangxiDad on October 12, 2008 at 4:50 PM

Ed, this guy Berg may be a kook, but—

If the Hawaii Certificate of Live Birth is a phony, as has been charged, and

If Obambi is unwilling or unable to produce a real one, and

If a hospital in Kenya has a record of his birth, and

If no hospital in Hawaii has such a record,

Then is it not up to him to prove that he wasn’t born in Kenya and carried to Hawaii as an infant?

Apparently there is no authority in the United States charged with certifying the eligibility of Presidential candidates. So what other recourse is there but a lawsuit? We may wish Mark Levin or someone credible had filed it instead of Berg, but that’s all we have at this point.

I don’t think you have demonstrated that there is nothing to the case.

MrLynn on October 12, 2008 at 4:52 PM

N4646W on October 12, 2008 at 4:48 PM

His relationships with Ayers and Odinga would disqualify him from getting a security clearance.

flyfisher on October 12, 2008 at 4:55 PM

Wonder when and where Obama applied for and received his first U.S. passport.

In order to get a U.S. passport you have show a birth certificate, correct?

albill on October 12, 2008 at 2:54 PM

Not entirely. What is needed is proof of American citizenship – an original birth certificate (a COLB is not sufficient), naturalization papers, etc.

My information is based on my additional duty as my Air National Guard unit’s Passport Clerk for two years in the late 80s.

Rusty Bill on October 12, 2008 at 4:55 PM

I don’t get how it’s “defending your opponent,” let alone how pointing out facts is “intellectually dishonest.” I’m just silly that way.

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 3:24 PM

here, let me help you:

Obama is an American. No, really. Update: Shocker – Berg a truther?

TheBigOldDog on October 12, 2008 at 4:59 PM

The problem with Obama is not whether or not he’s American. It’s the fact that he’s post-American.

spmat on October 12, 2008 at 5:08 PM

Amplification on my last -

A original birth certificate (as of the late 80s) had to have all the following:

The full name of the individual
The date of the birth
The location of the birth (name of hospital or street address)
The names of the parents
A permanently affixed certification by the county (usually an embossed seal, but may be an attached device, such as a sticker (like the license sticker from your copy of your computer operating system, or your car’s inspection sticker))
The date the document was recorded
An original signature of a county official (such as the county’s records clerk)

Such document could be a modern reproduction, so long as all the requirements were met.

The documents that have been released by the Obama campaign do not meet the requirements for an original birth certificate, and I would not have accepted them as part of a passport application.

Rusty Bill on October 12, 2008 at 5:13 PM

TheBigOldDog on October 12, 2008 at 4:59 PM

Dude, Berg is 100% within his right as an american citizen to ask to see the documentation. It really does not matter if he’s a truther, this is a real court case. Look at the documents. It isn’t an unreasonable request.

Unless I’m misreading the documents, the court ruled in favor of the plaintiff, and has given Obama and the DNC until October 15th to produce a whole lot of documentation.

We’ll see. If he’s in contempt of court on the 15th, is it then in the tinfoil hat realm?

Marine_Bio on October 12, 2008 at 5:23 PM

Marine_Bio on October 12, 2008 at 5:23 PM

I think what you are reading is Berg’s response to Obama trying to get the thing dismissed. As of yet, I don’t think the Judge has ruled on anything.

The two outstanding issues are the DNC trying to get this dismissed… and trying to stop any Discovery while waiting for the Judge to rule on the dismissal…

Its really going to come down to whether the judge thinks Berg has standing to sue or not…

Romeo13 on October 12, 2008 at 5:51 PM

Marine_Bio on October 12, 2008 at 5:23 PM

Do you not understand the post? That is the title of this thread. It was used to answer Jim’s question to me about how this thread is a defense of Obama (which, evidently, despite the title of the thread and Ed’s post, he doesn’t see).

TheBigOldDog on October 12, 2008 at 5:52 PM

His relationships with Ayers and Odinga would disqualify him from getting a security clearance.

flyfisher on October 12, 2008 at 4:55 PM

My point exactly, do you believe he could pass the psychological profile for most businesses? Two or three stammers or “Uh,Ahh” would disqualify him immediately.

N4646W on October 12, 2008 at 6:04 PM

We’ll see. If he’s in contempt of court on the 15th, is it then in the tinfoil hat realm?

Marine_Bio on October 12, 2008 at 5:23 PM

Yes, and I’m positive I’ll have to report for re-education after the inauguration, too.

Califemme on October 12, 2008 at 6:05 PM

TheBigOldDog on October 12, 2008 at 5:52 PM

I don’t see this as a compelling defense of Obama either, but that isn’t the point. I have a little bit of righteous indignation over the thought that by labeling Berg a truther somehow disqualifies the case.

My point is that this case needs to run its course. I would much rather live in a country that sticks to its founding document.

Or in other words, its better to let one loopball have his day in court and be wrong than to let a constitutional violation pass unquestioned.

Romeo13 on October 12, 2008 at 5:51 PM

Thanks. I wasn’t 100% sure.

Marine_Bio on October 12, 2008 at 6:06 PM

I think that Capt. Ed is missing the point of this lawsuit. It doesn’t depend on Mr. Berg’s personal history. It only depends on the law. I don’t care if Mr. Berg is concentrated evil or worse than Hitler to the 10th power. I still want to know if Barack Obama meets the requirement that he be a natural born citizen of the United States.

scrubjay on October 12, 2008 at 6:14 PM

Why bother pursuing the “Obama isn’t American citizen” canard? It’s a waste of time, and there is plenty of ammunition based on thing Obama is actually proposing, has actually said, etc.

Even assuming this extremely unlikely scenario is successful, the result would be an angry, insane segment of the “reality-based community” convinced that we stopped Hope and Change on a lame-ass technicality.

Beat Obama on substance. On his hate-America-first friends and mentors, his cripple-America-first domestic policy, his surrender-America-first foreign policy. To hell with parlor tricks. The man is an abomination, by his own thuggish tactics and philosophy. If we can’t beat him on those grounds, then America is already – royalties due to John Derbyshire – doomed, doomed.

sulla on October 12, 2008 at 6:19 PM

I’m glad to see that there are still conservatives who are arguing AGAINST a Presidential candidate being forced to publicly present his birth certificate (and, NO, Obama has produced absolutely nothing, so far). That would be such an immense difficulty and hardship, I understand. It’s only the Presidency we’re talking about, after all …

Sheesh.

progressoverpeace on October 12, 2008 at 6:20 PM

Focusing on troofer fringe crap like this just makes it easier for Obama to discount the ACORN and Ayers stuff as being the same.

funky chicken on October 12, 2008 at 4:12 PM

He’s going to discount it anyway, of course. And he will be taken at face value by the deathbed media no matter what he says. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but if they can concoct Krystallnacht 2 out of a couple of yahoos at McCain/Palin rallies, why bother trying to play by their rules?

here, let me help you:

Obama is an American. No, really. Update: Shocker – Berg a truther?

TheBigOldDog on October 12, 2008 at 4:59 PM

Obama is, and Berg might be. I agree that the headline should be “Obama is a natural-born citizen,” which is the issue at hand, and apparently what Ed thinks he’s proven. Is pointing out that Obama isn’t an Arab “defending” him too?

I guess I just don’t see a problem one way or another with discussing it.

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 6:23 PM

sulla on October 12, 2008 at 6:19 PM

Following the letter of the US Constitution is never lame. What is lame is that if this is true, the DNC is full of Friggin Turd Eaters who didn’t stop this before we even got to this point.

Unfortunately not defeating him on substance will not destroy us, but the reality is that if America Will not ENFORCE the CONSTITUTION, We’re Doomed.

Marine_Bio on October 12, 2008 at 6:26 PM

Marine_Bio on October 12, 2008 at 6:26 PM

America turned its back on the Constition in 1998/1999 when it demanded Clinton remain in office because their 401(K) accounts were fat. We sold ourselves cheap, and within two years the bubble burst. but we refused to blame Clinton, becuase that would have indicted us as well. (“us”=America, not me. I was one of those CDS sufferers who thought he should have been frogmarched out of the oval office.)

Leftist America turned its back on the Constitution in 2000 the moment they declared – with deadly earnestness – that Gore “won”, Bush was “selected, not elected”, and the Constitution was in effect the villain. It made it that much easier for this deluded half of the country to claim that KERRY was the winner in 2004 even though he lost by three million votes, and wasn’t even close in any of the 50 states (unlike 2000).

What I’m saying is that if we cannot defeat Obama on substance, then America has already turned its back so thoroughly on the Constitution that trying to keep him out of the WH on the basis of the 35-YO natural born citizen requirement would be deemed a laughable technicality, one easily remedied once the Chosen One assumes power.

Do you honestly think the Left gives a flying flip about the Constitution? We MUST defeat Obama on substance, or what flimsy threads of the Constitution remain in place in their cankered, fevered imaginations will be shorn forever.

sulla on October 12, 2008 at 6:38 PM

Darn does this mean Fitzgerald isn’t going to indite him either?

petunia on October 12, 2008 at 6:45 PM

To make a determination, an independent document examiner could follow the course of investigation as with ANY questioned document. For this case :

1. Go to the original archive of birth certificates of Hawaii (or the city or county, since states, cities, and counties have been historically able to issue birth certificates) to attempt to find the document. Birth certificates are not treated and stored as unimportant scraps. They are treated as secure documents.
2. If the document is located, use the accepted methods of document examination (including, but not limited to: comparison with contemporaneous known genuine documents, paper and ink analysis, security feature examination – if any were to have been present at the time of issuance) to determine authenticity.
3. If the document is not located, use the certificate that Obama is offering. If it is a “certified copy” issued subsequent to the issuance of the original certificate, the agency that issued the certified copy must have verified the existence of the original. There must be a paper trail there for a certified copy to have been issued.
4. Use the previously described examination methods on the certificate that Obama is offering to determine authenticity.
5. Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

This can be done with the written permission of the candidate or by the order of a judge.

AmericanDad on October 12, 2008 at 6:52 PM

let me add: if it’s true that he fails that constitutional test of birth, fine – prove it so he cannot run again.

but for 2008, defeat him at the polls.

if we can’t, we’re hosed anyway.

sulla on October 12, 2008 at 6:52 PM

I guess I just don’t see a problem one way or another with discussing it.

I’m with you, Jim. I think it is interesting the arguments the Dems are putting up against him. As long as we are careful not to push those ideas ourselves and simply point at what the Dems are saying. Although the questions themselves are interesting, the more interesting point as far as I am concerned is watching the Clintonistas and the Obamites duking it out. And truth be told, I would not discount the Clintonistas. We just need to make sure that we are not being co-opted by letting their arguments become our arguments. Our argument should remain free market vs socialism.

And as for Ayers, he is significant to us not just for his unrepentant terrorist backstory (that is simply the icing on the cake), but rather his radical ideas for challenging capitalism through the educational system by indoctrinating our children.

Queen0fCups on October 12, 2008 at 6:54 PM

Ed and Allah, just one question about the newspaper report you’ve supplied announcing the birth of Barack Sr.’s son: did this newspaper give the name of a hospital and then list the babies born there by day and time?

I ask this question because my hometown paper did that. I grew up in Memphis, sufficiently large like Honolulu to have several hospitals. If the HOSPITAL says the boy was born there and then, then, I agree, it’s game over.

If the newspaper says the boy was born but doesn’t give that extra bit of info, it’s not conclusive evidence. Barack Sr. could have reported the info to the hometown newspaper as, like any father, of course he’d want to share his joy of the birth of his child. He could have done that, though, after getting back to the USA, or a relative could have done it after getting a phone call.

I agree with you that it’s a matter of grasping at straws. Their side would do much worse than this to us, though, if there were any suspicion. Heck, they even tried to, and Congress had to clarify McCain’s citizenship to shut up the NY Slimes.

flutejpl on October 12, 2008 at 6:58 PM

It’s important to note that this is not a Republican thing.

I don’t know enough about this kind of thing to make a judgment one way or the other. My gut reaction when this stuff first came out was that it was a tin foil story.

My thing is this though…why are the DNC and Obama campaigns dragging their feet? Why did they stall to respond initially and delay their motion to dismiss til the 11th hour? Why are they requesting a suppression of discovery? Why not just release the documentation and make Berg look like a fool?

That kind of thing makes me think there’s something there. If not regarding Obama’s birthplace, then something else.

They promised nothing would be hidden and that they’d be the most open campaign on record but then they don’t release his medical records. They don’t release his academic records. They won’t release his IL state Senate record. It took nearly an act of God to get him to release the data on his earmark votes.

Like McCain said…”for a guy with two memoirs, his life isn’t exactly an open book”.

All this makes my spidey sense tingle. If it’s not the birth certificate that’s a problem for the DNC and Team O, it’s something equally as devastating.

So the question is, what are they hiding and will it come out before the election?

powerpro on October 12, 2008 at 7:23 PM

Why not produce the original birth certificate? — Most people, I’d wager, don’t have their own original birth certificate. If you applied to get your records, in most states you’d get what Obama has – a certification of live birth spit out from a computer system. I doubt Hawaii has the original record any longer, either. The certification proves citizenship well enough to get a passport.

Ed, I’ve really, really tried to resist responding to this, but it’s so stupendously wrong, I’ve weakened, so as an amateur genealogist, rather than a political junky, here goes:

1. No one in the US has their “original birth certificate.” What they may have is a copy of the original — or what’s referred to in most states as the “long form,” — mailed to parents after the birth is recorded in the state vital records office.

2. “If you applied to get your records, in most states you’d get what Obama has – a certification of live birth spit out from a computer system.” Guess again — in most states, you have the option of getting a “long form” — a copy of the original, more detailed certificate , or a “short form” — the bare-bones “computer system” printout to which you refer.

3. “I doubt Hawaii has the original record any longer, either.” Huh? What is this, 19th Century Ireland, where we burn vital records for fuel? Have you ever heard of microfiche, and subsequent conversion of microfiche records to digital images? Do you think states arbitrarily destroy records? Think paternity suits, contested wills, etc. — where the finer points of one’s birth may most definitel be required.

4. “The certification proves citizenship well enough to get a passport.” Hey, the first accuracy in this section of your post. The question is: does the “short form” — the bare facts version of an orignal birth certificate — prove eligibility for POTUS. There’s a signifant difference between a passport and the Consitutional requirements for POTUS, for those who may not have noticed.

Nichevo on October 12, 2008 at 7:40 PM

let me add: if it’s true that he fails that constitutional test of birth, fine – prove it so he cannot run again.

but for 2008, defeat him at the polls.

if we can’t, we’re hosed anyway.

sulla on October 12, 2008 at 6:52 PM

On the contrary, if he fails to be a natural-born American (i.e. was born in Kenya), then he cannot run now, and must be disqualified. The Democratic Party would then have to nominate another candidate.

If the disqualification occurred after the election, the election would have to be voided and another held.

It is conceivable that the Congress would attempt to validate his status with a law specifically excepting Obambi from the Constitutional requirement, but would the Supreme Court allow it?

This is potentially a very serious matter, not at all frivolous, and it is unfortunate that it has taken a kook to press it.

What is the Obama campaign hiding? And why?

MrLynn on October 12, 2008 at 7:41 PM

ONCE AGAIN:

prove it, don’t prove it – WHATEVER.

But don’t hang our hopes on it.

Beat him, like a rented mule, on policy and character and etc. Don’t even let it be close. Repudiate him and the anti-American horse he rode in on. Now. Convincingly. With extreme prejudice.

Then take all the time you want to prove he’s ineligible, or not.

Reject first. Disqualify later.

If we don’t reject, then the Constitution-dismissing segment of America will be even harder to stop.

We. Must. WIN this thing.

sulla on October 12, 2008 at 7:49 PM

JiangxiDad on October 12, 2008 at 4:08 PM

HEADS UP!

I think that ACE may have been hacked. I clicked JD’s link, got an odd error message, then, when going to the main page, got a really strange message from some sort of ‘space cadet’, then my browser crashed.

LegendHasIt on October 12, 2008 at 7:53 PM

Yes, he’s technically a citizen – but he’s no American.

labrat on October 12, 2008 at 7:53 PM

Nichevo on October 12, 2008 at 7:40 PM

Good explanation, but it doesn’t matter. There are some conservatives who think that the demand that a POTUS candidate actually prove his eligibility is too silly a notion to support. I guess they figure that it’s calling the candidate a liar and they’re scared that he’ll just whip out the actual document needed and laugh at us. I say, “So what?”

Further, I am surprised that these same conservatives are not at all bothered by the fact that the alleged document was released, strangely and surreptitiously, to the wackjob web site, Kos, whereupon it was supposed to be treated as an actual release of information from the BHO campaign.

But, I get called a tin-foil hat conspiracist by people who are too embarrassed to demand the most basic of Constitutional checks, for fear of being laughed at. Great.

progressoverpeace on October 12, 2008 at 7:55 PM

It is most discomforting to me to see so many on this, supposedly, conservative site ignoring the basics.

The Law is the most fundamental basic. If people are prepared to ignore the Law, they are of the Left.

The Law states certain conditions for eligibility to the office of President. If those conditions are met, there is no problem. If not, disqualification is the only lawful option. Covering the basics should not include the use of poor copies, but originals.

If an original is not available – tough!

OldEnglish on October 12, 2008 at 7:57 PM

Ed,
I usually lurk and this is only my second post. Somehow I feel strangely compelled to respond to your assertions.

First of all, I agree with you that this is a distraction, HOWEVER, Obama is adding fuel to the fire by not responding forcefully to this allegations. I understand not wanting to dignify every allegation, however, this is a big one. If I were Obama’s advisors, I would have staged a big press conference at the Hawaii Registrar’s office, requested several copies of the Long-Form “VAULT” certificate, and handed them over to some trusted, independent source for validation. Then, the whisper campaign is OVER. But, instead, the campaign chooses to file a Motion to Dismiss, Motion for Protective Order, etc…playing right into the hands of the conspiracy theorists.

Secondly, what has been published proves nothing.
(a) my daughter was born in London. Our families published birth announcements in our hometowns of NYC and Toronto.
A birth announcement in the local paper does not prove that the birth took place there, or is any type of “evidence”.

(b) apparently the State of Hawaii does allow for the birth of children born outside of Hawaii, as long as the parent had residence in Hawaii before the birth. I found this provision in the Hawaii state code to be curious. So, in theory, Barack could be born abroad and have a Hawaii birth registry if his mother met the residency condition.

HOWEVER, this entire episode has me p-d off for the same reasons Clinton’s refusal to admit his affair with Lewinsky did. So much time, effort and money was wasted on trying to tease out the “truth” from the spin, that nothing got accomplished in Congress.

If Clinton had manned up and had the stones to admit his dalliance, there would have been a flurry of media coverage, but then it would have blown over. Like Clinton is the only married man to be caught fooling around? Please. Instead, he stalled, was obstructionist, etc…..

Same-same with Barack. Okay, he thinks production of a long form certificate is beneath him. But, the distraction from the campaign is ridiculous. Man up. Get some stones. Just make a big PR move and release it. Then it’s over and we can all move on. Then you can call out your attackers and eradicate their firepower. Otherwise, this is going to continue to grow legs and a life of its own and spawn another whole cottage industry of conspiracy theories.

YTZGal on October 12, 2008 at 7:57 PM

progressoverpeace on October 12, 2008 at 7:55 PM

My two fingers are obviously slower than yours. :)

OldEnglish on October 12, 2008 at 7:58 PM

Yes, he’s technically a citizen – but he’s no American.

labrat on October 12, 2008 at 7:53 PM

That’s for sure. You could tell by the really odd mistakes he makes. But, growing up in Indonesia from ages 5-10 will have that sort of an effect on people.

progressoverpeace on October 12, 2008 at 8:00 PM

OldEnglish on October 12, 2008 at 7:58 PM

Just good to know that there are still some others who are not embarrassed by the Constitution. We are a fast dwindling crowd.

progressoverpeace on October 12, 2008 at 8:04 PM

Yes, he’s technically a citizen – but he’s no American.

labrat on October 12, 2008 at 7:53 PM

EXACTLY.

sulla on October 12, 2008 at 8:06 PM

I don’t know if this is hoax or ofr real.

What is real is there is a court case, and the response from Bama and DNC has been avoidance.

If Bama could so easily make a moron of Berg by producing documents, as McCain has done, why not do so? That is my problem. Berg is a nutcase…PROVE IT.

Whether Bama has too much ego to make a moron of Berg the easy way and has to fight with him, can you imagine what he would do about something that really does refelct badly on him or something he has done?

So far, we have seen exactly that with Wright, ACORN, Ayers, the list goes on. whenever he has to deal with anything unseemly…denial, lies, demurral, avoidance.

On that basis alone, not a man fit to be POTUS. In fact, a man one likely to fear if he became POTUS, and not just because of his Freikorps.

Harry Schell on October 12, 2008 at 8:38 PM

Hey everyone,

Don’t forget. Jerome Corsi is hitting the media outlets tomorrow. He will be talking about his “stay” in Kenya and what he found regarding the Obama-Odinga association/alliance. I think he’s on Hannity’s radio show tomorrow and will do H & Skeletor tomorrow night. That should be interesting.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 12, 2008 at 9:02 PM

 

Fact Check also verified it

 
I think you’re probably right Ed, but you do a disservice by lending veracity to FactCheck.
 
 

ignatzk on October 12, 2008 at 9:04 PM

If he is stonewalling on something that is REQUIRED BY OUR CONSTITUTION

NightmareOnKStreet on October 12, 2008 at 9:31 PM

Question:In the families published birth announcement,is the address given belong to the Grandparents? Who does that address belong to? I remember reading somewhere that obama’s mother was not in Hawaii just before his birth. Most things in life that are surrounded by lies always seem to keep coming back until the truth is set free.

christene on October 12, 2008 at 9:33 PM

Sorry, hit the submit button by mistake-
1) Does anyone remember the urgency & panic to get Lyndon Johnson sworn in as president when JFK was killed? Why? Because of the danger of that kind of power vacuum.

Well, if Obama gets elected and isn’t eligible, we will have a counterfeit president which could make for a real national security problem should our gov’t be challenged.
I know it “sounds farfetched” but it
2) If Obama is stonewalling on something that is REQUIRED BY OUR CONSTITUTION PRIOR TO BECOMING PRESIDENT, what the hell will he do once he’s in office and something happens that he wants to cover up.

NightmareOnKStreet on October 12, 2008 at 9:37 PM

Sorry, hit the submit button by mistake-
1) Does anyone remember the urgency & panic to get Lyndon Johnson sworn in as president when JFK was killed? Why? Because of the danger of that kind of power vacuum.

Well, if Obama gets elected and isn’t eligible, we will have a counterfeit president which could make for a real national security problem should our gov’t be challenged.
I know it “sounds farfetched” but we are more vulnerable now than in 1963 in many ways (like 9/11- remember keeping Bush in the air, etc)

2) If Obama is stonewalling on something that is REQUIRED BY OUR CONSTITUTION PRIOR TO BECOMING PRESIDENT, what the hell will he do once he’s in office and something happens that he wants to cover up.

3) Take a look at the court docs and see the incredible lengths to which Obama’s lawyers are going to keep Berg from proceeding.

4) I’m not willing to give up on our Constitution. Who the f**k is Barack Hussein Obama to think HE CAN BY-PASS IT?

5) Don’t tell me it’s a non-issue. It would have been a NON-ISSUE IF HE PRODUCED THE CORRECT DOCUMENT LIKE McCAIN DID. No one is still talking about McCain’s birthplace in Panama- THAT’S THE PATH TO A NON-ISSUE. Someone should tell Bari-o HE’S NOT SPECIAL & HE NEEDS TO FOLLOW THE LAW.

6) I almost bought into the “Truther” thing with Berg- and blew him off. But I don’t care if he is a truther- he is the only one with the courage to STAND UP & FIGHT. He may end up being a hero, so Ed, hold your fire for now, k?

Crap! I did it again! Bad finger!!!
… it sounds farfetched but

NightmareOnKStreet on October 12, 2008 at 9:47 PM

Harry Schell on October 12, 2008 at 8:38

PM

Good post.

NightmareOnKStreet on October 12, 2008 at 9:49 PM

MrLynn, if Obama were disqualified after the oath, Biden is president. I could not find any help in figuring out what happens if a president-elect is disqualified.

Pelayo on October 12, 2008 at 11:03 PM

MrLynn, if Obama were disqualified after the oath, Biden is president.

Shhh, you’re making me want to vote for Obama. Can you imagine President Biden? So much revenge for the last 8 years…

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 11:20 PM

…of attacks on the president, I mean.

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 11:20 PM

Why bother pursuing the “Obama isn’t American citizen” canard? It’s a waste of time, and there is plenty of ammunition based on thing Obama is actually proposing, has actually said, etc.

It is a waste of time in the sense that this whole charade of an election would never have occurred. With out Obama, I don’t even think Hillary would have been the Dem party choice. With out Obama, I doubt McCain would have been the Republican choice. There were much better candidates out there that were over shadowed by the media’s love affair with Obama. He’s screwing with us, and we have to pay for it. Just prove it as any ordinary citizen would have to do if requested.

N4646W on October 13, 2008 at 12:00 AM

MrLynn, if Obama were disqualified after the oath, Biden is president. I could not find any help in figuring out what happens if a president-elect is disqualified.

Pelayo on October 12, 2008 at 11:03 PM

Article XX

Section 3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

NightmareOnKStreet on October 13, 2008 at 12:02 AM

It turns out that Berg thinks Bush and Cheney either created 9/11 or let it happen deliberately

isn’t that what the democrats believe?

Personally I am glad this guy is chasing Obama on this issue. The press won’t. It is a simple matter to get a birth certificate, long form certified. If it takes a kook with a grudge, ok. It took a few disgruntled atheists to trash the entire machinery of the wonderful American culture. The least we can do is have a kook make Obama verify what he has typed in his bios.

I had to produce documentation for a lot lower job in government, and my references were contacted and asked to report suspicions on my background for a lot less of a job than POTUS. They were even given a 24 hour phone number to call in case they remembered anything including gossip and hearsay. (One friend let me read what they wrote which was enjoyable). It took me a year to get full clearance in writing which I still save as proof that I had some small measure of reality

Obama does not have to prove he is a good citizen like I did. He merely ought to be willing to prove he is a citizen. That is all you need to be a politician. Goodness has nothing to do with it.

entagor on October 13, 2008 at 1:54 AM

Goodness has nothing to do with it.

entagor on October 13, 2008 at 1:54 AM

So, are you saying that Mae West was like a .. a polititian? :)

OldEnglish on October 13, 2008 at 2:34 AM

OldEnglish on October 13, 2008 at 2:34 AM

Aw, heck! It’s late!

OldEnglish on October 13, 2008 at 2:36 AM

Why can’t we get just ONE other COLB that shows “AFRICAN” as a race, (from 1961); or even ten other copies to compare….this isn’t rocket surgery!

KZnextzone on October 13, 2008 at 4:26 AM

Yes, he’s technically a citizen – but he’s no American.

labrat on October 12, 2008 at 7:53 PM

Australopithecus,

Do me a favor and define “American.” Have you defined any other candidates thusly during your lifetime? Which one(s)? Why?

You may be a Republican, but calling people un-American because you disagree with them politically makes you more like a Stalinist.

It used to be the country-clubbers stinking up the joint. Now we have the outhouse crowd.

***
Is your time machine bi-directional? Since you arrived in modernity, have you been to what we call a “museum?” Did we get the whole dinosaur thing right?

The Race Card on October 13, 2008 at 4:54 AM

Do me a favor and define “American.” Have you defined any other candidates thusly during your lifetime? Which one(s)? Why?

That’s silly. That’s what we all do when we pick our leaders. I’ve judged them all over the years by how good or bad they conform to my view of what is a good American, and moreover, a good American leader.

I think Obama is a lousy American, primarily because I think he’s a leftist radical, racist, socialist extremist.

I will admit though that many other Americans love him and are just like him. Perhaps one day soon I will have to admit that he is now considered a good American, and I am the bad one. I just hope it won’t have to be done publicly in some re-education center, (or on it’s American version, Oprah.)

JiangxiDad on October 13, 2008 at 9:01 AM

People this is a great time to draw your attention to an article in ‘Imprimus’ that explained the 14th Amendment to the Constitution that details how citizenship is attained.

MSGTAS on October 13, 2008 at 10:48 AM

Either way, B.O. stinks!

ErinF on October 13, 2008 at 12:32 PM

The Race Card on October 13, 2008 at 4:54 AM

Come on Race, neither of us are newbies on this site. You know exactly what I’m talking about.

Do me a favor and define “American.” Have you defined any other candidates thusly during your lifetime? Which one(s)? Why?

I seem to detect a little race baiting in that comment, so I’ll leave that little worm on your hook today.

You may be a Republican, but calling people un-American because you disagree with them politically makes you more like a Stalinist.

Really?? Well then, guilty as charged.

labrat on October 13, 2008 at 1:48 PM

Ed, why do you insist that the Hawaii birth certificate is genuine when “Techdude”, a certified fraud examiner, has proven on another blog site that it is not? Jealousy?

It is in fact a copy of one of the Soetoro women’s birth certificate.

Your glossing over of this issue is very disturbing.

To say the least, the public needs to know that Obama is a citizen, and legitimate questions about the timeline and the birth certificate have been raised. I’m more concerned about a fraud being elected via fraud than I am about what
the bloggerati think of me.

Man up.

BemusedMalkinite on October 13, 2008 at 1:59 PM

Uh, I was never asked to provide a newspaper birth announcement as proof of citizenship. It wouldn’t have worked even for little league.

Where’s the birth certificate, Hussein? Simple question with an easy answer.

And what about college transcripts? Would we see “International Student” somewhere on them? Hmmm?

Akzed on October 13, 2008 at 2:42 PM

Well, Berg might be a truth er. But he has guts filing the law suit. The fact is, you can’t even find Obamas Thesis on the net. I know I found Hillary s. This was a few years back. Also, he won’t release the schools that he attended. This is why I question his birth and citizenship. N4646W is my hubby. A few months ago I was watching the news. Wasn’t Fox, but cannot remember the channel. They were interviewing a woman in Kenya. She said that she was in the room when Nobama was born. I came out to the office and asked my hubby how can one run when they were born in Kenya? He wasn’t in the house so he didn’t hear. I am a news freak, I always held very high jobs because of my memory. I notice things that others don’t. Also, what about his Indonesian citizenship? Been years since I been to school. If I remember you can’t have dual citizenship to run for President. Even though I detest Nobama, not becasue of the color of his skin. I don’t take hallucinogenics. I have a clear head on my shoulders. I don’t believe in conspiracy theories either. I know what I heard. I hope that Nobama has to produce the documents. Everyone else that ran did. What is the difference? Who is playing the race card now?

sheebe on October 13, 2008 at 3:31 PM

It turns out that Berg thinks Bush and Cheney either created 9/11 or let it happen deliberately. Conspiracy theory nuts don’t usually stop at one paranoid fantasy, and this demonstrates it.

This is not an argument against anything. It is an ad hominem attack. Common enough a fallacy to have been given a Latin name.

snaggletoothie on October 13, 2008 at 7:15 PM

I am not a lawyer. I read Mr. Berg’s postings of legal court
documents where he makes a case about Mr. Obama’s birth and citizenship. It seems to me that it does not matter if
Mr.Berg wears a tinfoil hat or not, this is a case in a federal court and it will go forward until Berg withdraws or the court rules against him. If Mr. Obama’s lawyers want to argue against this,then let them produce evidence that the suit is without merit. Their delaying tactics only help give
merit to Mr. Berg’s case and gives the appearance that Mr. Obama has something to hide. This is not going to go away and the longer it is put off the bigger the mess it will be.

jellybelly on October 13, 2008 at 9:56 PM

That Berg is a kook, is certainly no secret here in Philadelphia.

seanrobins on October 13, 2008 at 10:42 PM

The newspaper clipping gives the legal address of his parents, not his place of birth.

Elizabetty on October 13, 2008 at 10:42 PM

I am not a lawyer. I read Mr. Berg’s postings of legal court
documents where he makes a case about Mr. Obama’s birth and citizenship. It seems to me that it does not matter if
Mr.Berg wears a tinfoil hat or not, this is a case in a federal court and it will go forward until Berg withdraws or the court rules against him. If Mr. Obama’s lawyers want to argue against this,then let them produce evidence that the suit is without merit.

I’ve said this before….. Can’t we all please stop acting as idiotic as Berg and other Truthers.

This case will be dumped in about 5 more minutes…show’s over. The defense counsel will file a Motion to Dismiss, attaching the COLB; the Court will convert the motion into one for summary judgment; Berg will huff and puff and produce no evidence in opposition to the COLB, and it willgo down the drain.

seanrobins on October 13, 2008 at 10:46 PM

Mr.Seanrobins says “{This case will be dumped in about 5 more minutes…show’s over. The defense counsel will file a Motion to Dismiss, attaching the COLB; the Court will convert the motion into one for summary judgment; Berg will huff and puff and produce no evidence in opposition to the COLB, and it willgo down the drain.”

If thats the way it is then that’s the way it goes.I will
just wait and see what happens.

jellybelly on October 14, 2008 at 12:58 AM

Man up.

BemusedMalkinite on October 13, 2008 at 1:59 PM

You can’t be a man when you have no testicles or a conscience, and when you have to leave California for Minnesota because you are not man enough to stand your ground either, it displays the sissy within.

The party hacks on this site are one of the biggest contributing factors to losing this election. They would rather eat their own than to support a conservative.

Thanks for losing this election for us, HotAir. You can blame the media all you want, but you are just as culpable.

petit bourgeois on October 14, 2008 at 12:10 PM

Wouldn’t it be nice if we had a contemporaneous corroboration of Obama’s Hawaii birth? As it happens, we do — provided by another PUMA who wanted to find ways to disqualify Obama. Lori Starfelt found this in the archives of the Honolulu Advertiser in a print copy from August 1961:

And we also have Obama’s grandmother on record now claiming that he was born in Kenya.

All Obama has to do to quell this controversy is produce his original birth document. Why won’t he? What is he hiding?

JannyMae on October 14, 2008 at 12:33 PM

Hold the phone there, my rational friend.

I am no proponent of Berg kookery, but that birth announcement does not declare O was born in Hawaii. In case you were unfamiliar with the practice, birth announcments are often made in the “home county” of parents or a parent, even when the babe is born abroad.

Berg specifically points out, to his credit and despite his debits, that Obama’s mother registered his birth in Hawaii. You understand that this can occur despite a child having been born abroad. His notion of events that allows for Birth in Kenya, is that she departed and returned to Hawaii for this purpose.

The birth announcement did not indicate birth in Hawaii at all.

So stop saying this announcement is inconsistent with Berg, and contary to birth abroad.

It is really not dispositive. I wish it were.

SarahW on October 14, 2008 at 5:20 PM

Another commenter or two and I have posted previous examples of births (ours) being announced in newspapers in other cities. The Social Security people told my mother that a newspaper announcement was not sufficient, even if she could find one. (She was born in 1912, before Tennessee issued birth certificates.) I also contacted one of my genealogist friends and was told that a newspaper announcement is just another piece of evidence, and without the child’s name in the announcement, it is damn near useless for any evidence of lineage. In other words, if 100 years from now someone wants to prove that they are a descendant of Barack Obama Sr. from Kenya, that newspaper annoncement alone is useless.

So, we have an interesting tid bit of information, but it proves nothing.

People doing genealogical research have to rely on several pieces of information because a birth certificate is a realtively new innovation. I have a copy of my father’s cert, he was born in 1913.

Pelayo on October 14, 2008 at 7:38 PM

Why can’t we get just ONE other COLB that shows “AFRICAN” as a race, (from 1961); or even ten other copies to compare….this isn’t rocket surgery!

A real birth certificate in 1961 probably had “Negro” listed as the race for an African. Even if it was Hawaii, but it was 1961.

BTW, my car title has more information than that cert I saw on Fightthesmears.

Pelayo on October 14, 2008 at 7:51 PM

Again, birth announcements are made where there are persons who might be interested in the announcement. Families for example, might announce the birth children in New York, even if the children were born when the parents were traveling or residing in another state or country. Just because Madison Hunter Byrd Ukrop (aka Mun Bun) was born in Paris, doesn’t mean the news is of no interest to the folks at home.

It would be natural for the birth to be announced upon O’s mommies return to the states, even if her child were born abroad.

It simply means that the mother and father had ties in the community where the announcement was made, and does not indicate birth in Hawaii.

I would love for the announcement to have said “Lately, at Honolulu Johnson kettering Hospital, a son to ….blah. blah blah, but it does not.

And O’s parents and grandparents had significant enought ties in the community where the announcement was place to justify it’s appearance, even if it was only done upon the news of birth, or the mother’s return to the States shortly after the birth.

SarahW on October 14, 2008 at 9:54 PM

To me the bigger picture is who officially verifies whether the presidential candidate is a natural-born citizen? I hope it is not the party! To date we have seen a scanned copy that Atlas Shrugged has raised some questions about and then a photo that Fact Checkers says is valid but others disagree. If the presidential candidate declares he was born in a state then why doesn’t that state openly verify they have a valid birth certificate on record.

bigtallgoo on October 16, 2008 at 12:00 AM

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