Obama is an American. No, really. Update: Shocker – Berg a truther?

posted at 11:21 am on October 12, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

I really thought we’d put this conspiracy theory to rest over the summer, but it has arisen like a zombie yet again to suck the credibility out of the conservative blogosphere. I have had at least 40 e-mails begging me to watch this video featuring Phillip Berg, a PUMA suing Barack Obama and the Democratic Party to prove Obama’s citizenship — even though Obama has already produced a certification of live birth from Hawaii that would get him a passport any day of the week:

Last week, we got tons of e-mail purporting to claim that Berg had won in court and Obama had three days to produce proof of citizenship. It turned out that someone had posted an exemplar of the order, produced by the plaintiff in case the judge granted their motion.  In other words, it meant nothing, and neither does this.

Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961, making him a natural-born citizen of the United States.  Hawaii’s certification of live birth proves this, as Allahpundit and I have both noted this summer.  Fact Check also verified it, although the video does its best to undermine that by noting the connection to the Annenberg Foundation.  By the way, Berg and the video manage to mangle this, too, by claiming Obama sat on the board of the Annenberg Foundation itself and distributed their funding.  He ran the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, one of the foundation’s beneficiaries. (The St. Petersburg Times also verified the certification independently.)

Wouldn’t it be nice if we had a contemporaneous corroboration of Obama’s Hawaii birth?  As it happens, we do — provided by another PUMA who wanted to find ways to disqualify Obama.  Lori Starfelt found this in the archives of the Honolulu Advertiser in a print copy from August 1961:

Unless people want to start claiming that the conspiracy to have Barack Obama infiltrate the political system started at the moment of his birth, that’s pretty conclusive evidence that Obama was born in the US and is a natural-born citizen.

I already know some of the rebuttals that will fly through the comments, so let me address them here:

  • A court is hearing this case, so it must be serious — Any fool with a lawyer and a couple of hundred dollars can file a lawsuit.  That’s one of the reasons why tort reform is so badly needed.  Frivolous lawsuits cost consumers billions of dollars.  Conservatives used to make that argument, at least until Phillip Berg filed this lawsuit.
  • Why isn’t Obama answering the lawsuit? — Maybe because it’s ridiculous, and Berg has no standing to file it anyway.
  • Why not produce the birth certificate? — Obama has … twice now, once on his website and once to Fact Check.
  • Well, then, why didn’t he produce it sooner, smart guy? — Sooner than what?  This came up at the end of the primaries, and the Obama campaign produced it within a couple of weeks.  So far, that hasn’t done much to quell the conspiracy theories.
  • Why not produce the original birth certificate? — Most people, I’d wager, don’t have their own original birth certificate.  If you applied to get your records, in most states you’d get what Obama has – a certification of live birth spit out from a computer system.  I doubt Hawaii has the original record any longer, either.  The certification proves citizenship well enough to get a passport.

Let’s stop chasing absurd conspiracy theories that make it more difficult to win the real arguments in this election.  Stick to Obama’s absurd theories on national security, his radical political allies, and his disastrous economic policies that will make these past few weeks seem like a breeze.  He’s the wrong man for the job, but still an American.

Update: To answer another question (reasonably asked in the comments), Barack Obama’s Indonesian stepfather could not have revoked Obama’s birthright as an American citizen, no matter what he told the school Obama attended.

Screw Loose Change has dealt with Phillip Berg before.  It turns out that Berg thinks Bush and Cheney either created 9/11 or let it happen deliberately.  Conspiracy theory nuts don’t usually stop at one paranoid fantasy, and this demonstrates it.  It turns out he has quite a history of lawsuits and publicity stunts, and this was written at the beginning of 2007. (via Public Secrets)


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I hate to break it to my friends at HotAir, but the Certificate of Live Birth Obama is showing people- the same one that has been “verified” by FactCheck, etc… IS NOT COMPLETE. Any birth cert ordered from out of state will have FOUR pieces of paper, not just the one put out by the Messiah.
rotorhead on October 12, 2008 at 11:48 AM

It’s very complete. I ordered mine and it’s one page just like Obama’s. Sorry to burst your bubble, but YOU ARE WRONG.
Happy your wife was rewarded with something really special, but for the rest of us sheep it’s just a one page deal.

mauioriginal on October 12, 2008 at 12:29 PM

The purpose of this site is not to get the republican elected, it’s to get people to click on the links, and drive traffic, and build up a large base of participants.

I’m starting to believe this now. Ed, has dismissed this story as if we are wearing tin foil hats. Again, nobody is saying Obama is not American. The question is he a natural born citizen and did he give up his citizenship when he moved to overseas.

tdavisjr on October 12, 2008 at 12:29 PM

So that I am not accused of being a copy and paste astroturfer, I am admitting right up front hat I am copying and pasting a post I placed elsewhere:

Berg’s assertion is that it is not a birth certificate.
It is a certificate of Live Birth (which merely registers the birth), and it has no official county seal… Berg has on his website a side by side with this document and someone from Hawaii’s birth certificate and there is a difference. I’m not saying I buy into it, or that I think that Berg is a credible source but as an innocent bystander I think he is making a compelling argument for which I would be interested in seeing an answer to. It is further interesting that the case has not been dismissed, and if it had no credibility at all, it would have been by now.

It is not an argument I would use as a Republican. However, I think it’s legitimate for the Clinton’s to use with their own party, and supporters. Further, if it is out there, and getting some traction how can you not watch the train-wreck and point at it, not as facts that you are defending, but merely saying “hey this is what Democrats are saying about other Democrats?”

Once again: BEST election cycle EVAH! Every day, a new twist.

Queen0fCups on October 12, 2008 at 12:30 PM

It wasn’t Barack Obama Sr’s mother who gave birth to her own grandchild. We must question Obama’s grandmother to get the truth out. Send Andy Sullivan out.

eaglewingz08 on October 12, 2008 at 12:32 PM

My own children have Certificates of Live Birth, because they were born at home with a midwife. I brought the babies to the County Office and registered their births a couple of weeks after the fact.

Queen0fCups on October 12, 2008 at 12:34 PM

Oh, yeah?

Well, I was one of those who deluged you with e-mails on this video.

Why?

Let’s presume for the sake of argument that Berg is a flat out loon, a quack, a nutcase.

That being said, ask yourself this simple question.

If someone sued you saying that you were not an American citizen and asked you to produce your original birth certificate or an attested, sealed copy of that document would you:

a) Drive down to City Hall, pay the $5 for the certificate, drive to the courthouse and wave the document in front of the judge, asking him to dismiss the case, or

b) mount a defense by hiring a battery of lawyers to challenge the suit?

The truth is an absolute defense.

I am willing to accept that Obama was born in Hawaii as claimed. Why is he not willing to do so?

Unless the proceedures of keeping vital records are markedly different in Hawaii than they are here in Massachusetts, Obama should have no trouble whatsoever producing a birth certificate in the Pennsylvania court.

Just last month, I ran into City Hall to get a copy of my wife’s birth certificate for a new passport. There it was, the original document, half a century later safely tucked in the vault. I still have a attested, sealed wallet card version of my birth certificate issued two months after my birth.

It is Obama that is drawing suspicion to himself through his stonewalling tactics. This is just another example of the obfuscation of his past that his campaign is unwilling to discuss.

Mr. Obama, please answer the question so we can move on.

turfmann on October 12, 2008 at 12:34 PM

tdavisjr on October 12, 2008 at 12:29 PM

Oh, and if some people will deliberately misinterpret what I said, I am not suggesting what the purpose of this site should be. I do not want an echo chamber. I understand that there are other sites out there on the internet. I was simply making an observation and a comment. THat’s all. Some people here seem to delight in making it seem that I am saying and implying something that I am not. I just want to set the record straight.

wise_man on October 12, 2008 at 12:34 PM

The US does not recognize dual citizenship – at least not nowadays.

The US does indeed recognize dual citizenship, when confered upon an individual by right of birth to one American parent who has met the US residency requirements. This is also an important point WRT Obama, but I am not making an arument about him one way or the other.

In times past, I believe such an individual might have had to foreswear the foreign citizenship at the age of majority, or lose the US citizenship, but this is no longer the case. My own adult children have dual US-Canada citizenships (yes, 2 passports), so I am not just speculating on this one.

For foreign-born citizens having no US parent, wishing to become US citizens, however, the situation is probably as you say.

drunyan8315 on October 12, 2008 at 12:34 PM

Mr. Obama, please answer the question so we can move on.

turfmann on October 12, 2008 at 12:34 PM

This is the biggest fuel for conspiracy minded folks. Why leave fuel out for consumption?

This makes no sense.

Marine_Bio on October 12, 2008 at 12:36 PM

No wonder we are on a losing streak. We are a bunch of losers.

TheBigOldDog on October 12, 2008 at 11:28 AM

Soy un perdedor

csdeven on October 12, 2008 at 12:39 PM

Marine_Bio and others,

You are exactly right. The citizenship is probably a dead-ender, but there must be some reason Obama doesn’t want to release the documents. Otherwise, he would.

Also, some people will decline to vote for him just based on this rumor. they’re morons, but those votes count. So why kill it. I just don’t undertsand.

Ed, Talk about the stuff that’s important to you. But leave this alone.

darkegop on October 12, 2008 at 12:40 PM

I don’t understand why Hot air would want to bury this. Berg says that the two hospitals in Hawaii don’t have any record of Obama being born there and that there is a hospital in Kenya that does. I suggest going to the obamacrimes web site and reading Berg’s case for yourself. I am also not convinced by the newspaper clipping as proof. It doesn’t say where he was born either.

http://obamacrimes.com/

scrubjay on October 12, 2008 at 12:42 PM

A question then, considering the update; his stepfather couldn’t but was there any Indonesian governmental involvement in the adoption? If it wasn’t official, there is no issue at all; if it was official, clarity from the Indonesia government about any conflict with the laws of the time would be helpful.

michaelo on October 12, 2008 at 12:42 PM

My own children have Certificates of Live Birth, because they were born at home with a midwife. I brought the babies to the County Office and registered their births a couple of weeks after the fact.

Queen0fCups on October 12, 2008 at 12:34 PM

MAYBE BARRY JUNIOR WAS BORN ELSEWHERE AND HIS MOMMA REGISTERED HIM AS IF HE WAS BORN IN THE USA?

reliapundit on October 12, 2008 at 12:43 PM

Well, thank you for the update. My husband & I read the oath of allegiance for US naturalized citizens and thought that was what it meant:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

Marybeth on October 12, 2008 at 12:43 PM

On fightthesmears.com the copy has no seal (embossed) that will make it certified. The certificate number is blacked out, why?
These things feed the conspiracy monster.

Pelayo on October 12, 2008 at 12:15 PM

raised seal and the certificate number is 151 1961 – 010641. Those are non-issues dude. BTW-It was hard to see the raised seal in the original scan release, but mine was no different when I scanned it at home and tried to look at it on my computer. I could hardly see the seal.
There are far too many issues to go after Obama about, that don’t make us all look like loons.

mauioriginal on October 12, 2008 at 12:44 PM

Add his health records to the list- and not the one page summary already put out there. Then I want a full body exam – you know to check for the “666″…

And his peculiar lack of a belly-button, which makes the question of his birth even more intriguing.

Queen0fCups on October 12, 2008 at 12:44 PM

To answer another question (reasonably asked in the comments), Barack Obama’s Indonesian stepfather could not have revoked Obama’s birthright as an American citizen, no matter what he told the school Obama attended.

Under current US law, you are correct, but under the law of the time, its an open question.

If you are the legal guardian, or parent, of a minor, you CAN make legaly binding decisions for that child. You can change their name and such… so the question becomes can a Parent, under the legal system of the time, swear an oath of allegiance to another country IN THE NAME OF THE MINOR, and have it be binding upon the child when he reaches his majority?

Remember, the laws of the US cannot be Ex Post Facto, so this will have to be judged under the laws inforce in the 60′s…

Romeo13 on October 12, 2008 at 12:46 PM

I wish Obama would produce the documents requested in this case and move on. It would shut the entire claim down – period.

Why spend the money & time dragging it out?

Marybeth on October 12, 2008 at 12:48 PM

as another commenter noted …

the birth announcement could’ve been called in. if they lived in hawaii, but travelled to kenya – and the birth occurred there – the obamas could have easily put the announcement in their local paper for all their friends to see.

of course ed will now say i’m a drooling imbecile

darkegop on October 12, 2008 at 12:49 PM

Why spend the money & time dragging it out?

In many people’s mind, this is the very question that gives this issue legs.

Queen0fCups on October 12, 2008 at 12:50 PM

Marybeth on October 12, 2008 at 12:43 PM

Yeah, pretty sad how they can “change” the meaning to an oath to mean somthing diametricly opposed to what it says.

Romeo13 on October 12, 2008 at 12:50 PM

What I have said for weeks was that Berg appears to be a nut and his whole inquiry is just too good to be true. However, it is hardly burdensome for Obama to provide adequate documentation to demonstrate he meets the threshold requirements to be POTUS. For the sake of the country, Obama needs to allow a judge to make ruling based on evidence so this matter can be put to rest. Why would any POTUS want this kind of question hanging over his head before he even takes office? If the judge grants the Motion to Dismiss, these quesitons will dog Obama for the rest of his life.

flyfisher on October 12, 2008 at 12:55 PM

OK. If they want us to drop it, we’ll drop it.

Can we ask the following questions?

Is it true that the Clintons are cooperating on a RICO investigation into the Obama campaign? Details at HillBuzz. Michael Barone has a great commentary on the coming “thugocracy” of an Obama presidency.

Can we discuss this bundler of Senator Obama’s? I know it pales in comparison to the Soros-filtered money.
Here is his donation record.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 12, 2008 at 12:56 PM

My late mother was born in Tennessee in 1912, and in 1912 Tennessee did not issue birth certificates. When my mother applied for some kind of Social Security benefit, she had a tough time proving her birth. She finally found a bible record. If I remember correctly, she was told that a newspaper announcement was insufficient.

Pelayo on October 12, 2008 at 1:00 PM

Ummm, Berg’s contention is that even if the birth certificate is valid, Barry Soetoro lost his citizenship at age 5 by becoming a citizen of Indonesia, and was never restored US citizenship upon return to Hawaii after age 10.

It’s an entirely different angle on the same case.

desertdweller on October 12, 2008 at 1:01 PM

President Hillary Rodham Clinton Nancy Pelosi.
The Monster on October 12, 2008 at 12:05 PM

I hate to say this but I think under that particular situation it would go to the Speaker of the House, no?

Actually, I think it was “The Berenstein Bears Go to Washington“

NightmareOnKStreet on October 12, 2008 at 12:00 PM
rawfulmaow!

ronsfi on October 12, 2008 at 12:07 PM

rawfulmaow? Is that a good thing?

NightmareOnKStreet on October 12, 2008 at 1:04 PM

I’m skeptical too. But hey, if they can raise questions about the circumstances of Trig’s birth, why can’t we raise questions about Obama’s?

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 1:07 PM

If I remember correctly, she was told that a newspaper announcement was insufficient.

Pelayo on October 12, 2008 at 1:00 PM

I think that’s exactly right. When I was born in the 60′s there were birth announcements in three different newspapers in two states. One announcement appeared in my hometown in Tennessee. Another appeared in my materal grandparent’s hometown newspaper. And a third was in my paternal grandparent’s hometown newspaper. If a newspaper announcement was proof, I could “prove” I was born in three separate places. Obama’s newspaper announcement is token evidence, not proof.

flyfisher on October 12, 2008 at 1:08 PM

Simple question: when did Obama first get a US passport?

If the answer is 1982 or later, that raises the question of what country’s passport Obama traveled on in 1981 when he visited Indonesia, Pakistan, India, and possibly Kenya.

Was it an Indonesian passport? If so, did Obama ever swear a loyalty oath to Indonesia? That country does not allow dual citizenship. As such, Obama would have had to forswear US citizenship to get an Indonesian passport.

When did Obama get his Indonesian passport?

Why do so many people in Kenya believe Obama was born in Mumbasa, not Honolulu? Did you know the Obama campaign states that Obama was a dual US/Kenyan citizen until 1982, when his Kenyan citizenship expired? Did Obama ever have a Kenyan passport?

What languages does Obama speak fluently? English and… Malay? Why doesn’t Obama go public with the languages he speaks?

indythinker on October 12, 2008 at 1:09 PM

Nice job, Ed.

BallisticBob on October 12, 2008 at 1:16 PM

No wonder we are on a losing streak. We are a bunch of losers.

TheBigOldDog on October 12, 2008 at 11:28 AM

So you think we’re losers because they say we’re losers. And you think this is worse than the slime being hurled at Palin because they say it is.

Don’t let them brainwash you. This thing might be Looney Tunes, but it doesn’t hold a candle to everything else going on right now.

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 1:16 PM

Keep up the good work, Ed.

There’s so much real dirt on Obama that it’s just silly to try to dig up this nonsense.

ClintACK on October 12, 2008 at 11:30 AM

Yeah, since we’ve already allowed our entire election process to be fraudulent with no real consequences, it seems kinda petty to insist on a policy of “trust BUT VERIFY” when it comes to our president being an natural born American. I say we throw out the whole election process & overly cumbersome rules. Next time let’s do a paperless MAIL ORDER PRESIDENT, k?

NightmareOnKStreet on October 12, 2008 at 1:16 PM

flyfisher, I was born in Knoxville, but there was also an announcement in the “Rogersville Review;” I have the original page. It says that my grandmother announces the birth of a grandson, my name, but the place is not stated.

Pelayo on October 12, 2008 at 1:16 PM

Some of you guys have lost it. Are you still chasing Bill Clinton around the Mena airport too? How’s that going?

rockmom on October 12, 2008 at 1:18 PM

Oh, and if Berg is a Democrat, and the guy who made this video is a registered independent… how is it a black eye for the right? (Pardon the racist code language.)

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 1:24 PM

Obama is paying money and dragging this out because he wants to choose the hill you all are going to fight on, and he doesn’t want it to be ACORN or Ayers.

The more people push the birth cert, the less energy they spend on issues he hasn’t already got a pass on, and the more Barry can point at this and use it to discredit everyone else.

It’s Judo, and a lot of people seem to need lessons. This is NOT Barry’s weak spot, the number of “likely Barry voters” that will care about this is infinitesimal if not zero.

In other words, the people who care about this don’t need convincing, and the people who need convincing don’t care about this.

Merovign on October 12, 2008 at 1:28 PM

The One has received a pass on EVERYTHING.

It’s disgusting.

Marybeth on October 12, 2008 at 1:32 PM

Merovign, about the only two places this issue is getting any discussion is Hot Air and HillaryClintonforum. If it is a distraction or a ruse by the Obamas, it ain’t a very big one.

Pelayo on October 12, 2008 at 1:33 PM

So you think we’re losers because they say we’re losers. And you think this is worse than the slime being hurled at Palin because they say it is.

Don’t let them brainwash you. This thing might be Looney Tunes, but it doesn’t hold a candle to everything else going on right now.

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 1:16 PM

Boy I didn’t think I was remotely that obtuse. You need to actually spend some time reading what I wrote rather than skimming it and assuming you know what I’m saying.

We are losers becuase we spend out time precious time, energy and space defending our opponents rather than challenging them. Because while we are wasting out rime doing so, we are ignoring many other stories that actually advance the case against Obama. I bet you know 6 good stories off the top of your head that you’ve yet to see covered here.

TheBigOldDog on October 12, 2008 at 1:35 PM

Did you catch Allahpundit’s reference that this might be a gossip blog come January? Is that what you want?
RushBaby on October 12, 2008 at 12:29 PM

RushBaby, that’s pretty weak — the host blaming the commenters for a blog’s decline is the best way to drive away traffic — I’ve seen it happen elsewhere, and it never works. If this turns into a gossip blog, it won’t be the commenters’ fault.

My take is that nerves are frayed right now by both the political and economic climate, and that’s unfortunately reflected in increasing condecension and negativity of the posts.

Meanwhile, I think both hosts are missing an essential element in this election; something that Tony Blankley captured quite well a few weeks back. The image of “the man who never was,” is what drives speculation about birth certificates and foreign birth. The fourth estate, once relied upon to dredge up and thrash out issues such as this in the course of a campaign, has abdicated its responsiblities, and this is the result.

Nichevo on October 12, 2008 at 1:37 PM

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/photo-discovered-of-obama-with-fellow.html

Sadly, it will get nowhere.

Marybeth on October 12, 2008 at 1:38 PM

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 1:16 PM

Ah, I know what you did. You never bothered to go back and read the whol post. You reacted to the quote above.

Here, let me help you:

Somebody has to explain the strategy to me whereby you waste time, space and energy defending your opponent. Is that somewhere in The Art of War? Somebody have a page reference for me? Do they teach it at the United States War College?

No wonder we are on a losing streak. We are a bunch of losers.

TheBigOldDog on October 12, 2008 at 11:28 AM

TheBigOldDog on October 12, 2008 at 1:40 PM

Instead of simply producing the documents in question, the Obama campaign and the DNC have chosen to spend money and several months jockeying around with this Hillary supporter in the courts. Why? Wouldn’t producing the asked for documents put to bed several rumors about who/what BHO is?

Anyone on here a HR professional? Would you take a “certificate of live birth” as a List C document in lieu of a “birth certificate”? I wouldn’t…

Gohawgs on October 12, 2008 at 1:42 PM

Boy I didn’t think I was remotely that obtuse.

Why would you?

You need to actually spend some time reading what I wrote rather than skimming it and assuming you know what I’m saying.

It’s my time, and I’ll do with it as I please.

We are losers becuase we spend out time precious time, energy and space defending our opponents rather than challenging them. Because while we are wasting out rime doing so, we are ignoring many other stories that actually advance the case against Obama. I bet you know 6 good stories off the top of your head that you’ve yet to see covered here.

I spent time reading that, twice in fact, and it still doesn’t make sense.

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 1:43 PM

Interesting, with all the money the Obama campaign is throwing around, why not request an official copy of the “Birth Certificate”. It is not as though he does not have the funds and man power. Court case is then non issue, and we end up with egg on our face.

As far as McCain’s supposed questionably, any offspring of military personnel are American citizens unless they themselves are not, where upon the child may be entitled to dual citizenship (non citizens enlisting or married to non citizens). In the case of the non citizen parent, they may request the child to be a citizen of their home nation, but the child has until it’s eighteenth birthday to declare citizenship if in fact they were eligible for dual citizenship. This may or may not also apply in Obama’s case.

“If” Obama is sworn in as president and he is not a citizen, he will have thwarted the constitution by a knowing congress which will open the door for anyone to run for president. How would the courts respond to this? Would they defend the Constitution? How would the court be seated at the time?

Sorry Ed, I’m not a conspiracy nut, but why is not legitimate proof being offered and not thrown in our face?

N4646W on October 12, 2008 at 1:43 PM

We should title this thread “Return of the Lemmings”

Bradky on October 12, 2008 at 1:49 PM

I spent time reading that, twice in fact, and it still doesn’t make sense.

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 1:43 PM

Can’t help you with that.

TheBigOldDog on October 12, 2008 at 1:50 PM

This proves nothing Ed. Barack H. Obama is a very common name.

carbon_footprint on October 12, 2008 at 1:51 PM

We should title this thread “Return of the Lemmings”

Bradky on October 12, 2008 at 1:49 PM

Why? Because some of us are interested in the Constitutional questions brought up by a Democrat’s Lawsuit?

Romeo13 on October 12, 2008 at 1:51 PM

This whole issue lost credibility with me as soon as self proclaimed “experts” claimed to have conducted scientific document analysis of an image file from the web.

Damiano on October 12, 2008 at 1:53 PM

Why? Because some of us are interested in the Constitutional questions brought up by a Democrat’s Lawsuit?

Romeo13 on October 12, 2008 at 1:51 PM

Because you are so willing to jump off the cliff when you know this is a complete non-story. And in turn you make the more reasonable members of the GOP look like truthers.

Bradky on October 12, 2008 at 1:56 PM

Can’t help you with that.

Clearly.

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 2:01 PM

This whole issue lost credibility with me as soon as self proclaimed “experts” claimed to have conducted scientific document analysis of an image file from the web.

Has he produced the original? I’m asking because I don’t know.

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 2:02 PM

Not sure what the answer to this is, anybody know?:

If Barack O. was adopted by Mr. Soetero from Indonesia and Barack O. now changes his last name to Soetero, how is it that he now uses the last name Obama?

When he was in Indonesia his last name was Soetero…but when he moves back to Hawaii he became Obama, again?

Did Barack O. get “un-adopted” from Mr. Soetero?

———

Did Barack O. have an Indonesian passport? How did he leave Indonesia and re-enter the U.S.?

—-

And wouldn’t a good way to clear it up look at Barack’s first application for a U.S. passport? When did he get his first U.S. passport?

albill on October 12, 2008 at 2:03 PM

Because you are so willing to jump off the cliff when you know this is a complete non-story. And in turn you make the more reasonable members of the GOP look like truthers.
Bradky on October 12, 2008 at 1:56 PM

To whom? The media?

Nichevo on October 12, 2008 at 2:05 PM

Because you are so willing to jump off the cliff when you know this is a complete non-story. And in turn you make the more reasonable members of the GOP look like truthers.

Bradky on October 12, 2008 at 1:56 PM

Well, first off, I don’t belong to the GOP.

Secondly, there are valid questions about the legal status of Barrys citizenship. His lack of documentation on this, and other issues, make things murky at best… and IF any of this is true, could spin us into a Constituional Crises at a time when we are both in an Economic crises, but at War.

IMO this could have, and should have, been settled months ago… simply by giving out his long form Birth Cert…

At this point, its once again not the crime, but the cover up.

Romeo13 on October 12, 2008 at 2:11 PM

Seriously, though, TheBigOldDog, sorry if I got the wrong idea. I’m not sure Ed is really aiding and abetting the enemy — shouldn’t we strive for truth, no matter what? — but it’s my bad for going off half-cocked. So to speak.

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 2:12 PM

To whom? The media?

Nichevo on October 12, 2008 at 2:05 PM

No my wayward chucklehead – to the regular citizens of the country, you know the people like you and me.

Overheard at Office water cooler “If Nichevo sends me one more of those crazy emails about Obama not being a legal American, but is a manchurian candidate as well as the 12th IMAM… I may have to report him to HR. Ssh here he comes. When he passes by make sure to say Rush is a pill popping loonie and watch his reaction. tee hee hee”

Bradky on October 12, 2008 at 2:13 PM

Romeo13 on October 12, 2008 at 2:11 PM

Interesting.. I don’t see many Obama supporters at HA.

Bradky on October 12, 2008 at 2:15 PM

Bradky on October 12, 2008 at 2:13 PM

In a recent lecture to a High School history class, I made the point that History is what happens while you are living your life. Its often not until we look back that the pieces all fall into place.

I’m very sure that the Vrill Society was dismissed as nothing more than a conspiricy theory as well… (interesting bit of Nazi history)…

Or… I’m sure that many Americans, after the fact, wished that Fidel Castro had done a bit better during his Baseball tryout…

Or… that the letter sent to Napoleon from the Czar’s army when he was looking for work right out of Military School, had been a bit more polite…

History often turns on very strange things… and this “could” be one of them.

All I’m proposing is to let a Judge and Jury decide…

Romeo13 on October 12, 2008 at 2:21 PM

History often turns on very strange things… and this “could” be one of them.

All I’m proposing is to let a Judge and Jury decide…

Romeo13 on October 12, 2008 at 2:21 PM

You may see it that way but over half the comments in the thread see it as the hail mary pass to invalidate an election. Say hello to President Pelosi in the interim.

Bradky on October 12, 2008 at 2:26 PM

Hey, when I ordered MY birth certificate, it was a raised-seal photostat of the hand-written original! That proves that Obama was born in Indonesia!
But I took it already, nurse!

eeyore on October 12, 2008 at 2:30 PM

Seriously, though, TheBigOldDog, sorry if I got the wrong idea. I’m not sure Ed is really aiding and abetting the enemy — shouldn’t we strive for truth, no matter what? — but it’s my bad for going off half-cocked. So to speak.

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 2:12 PM

I think it’s a very poor use of precious time and energy defending my opponents. Let them defend themselves.

There all all sorts of good stories that advance the ball that are being ignored becuase time and effort are being spent defending Obama. That’s a very bad strategy.

TheBigOldDog on October 12, 2008 at 2:30 PM

No my wayward chucklehead – to the regular citizens of the country, you know the people like you and me.

Overheard at Office water cooler “If Nichevo sends me one more of those crazy emails about Obama not being a legal American, but is a manchurian candidate as well as the 12th IMAM… I may have to report him to HR. Ssh here he comes. When he passes by make sure to say Rush is a pill popping loonie and watch his reaction. tee hee hee”

Bradky on October 12, 2008 at 2:13 PM

Dang, sorry you work in such a hostile environment, from which you apparently still crave approval. Must be tough.

It’s interesting in that it parallels what I believe is Ed’s problem — he still craves approval from the mainstream press for his starched-collar upright stands in defense of “credibility,” but no matter what he does, it’s not going to happen. It really doesn’t matter if there are ten people engaging in discussion or emails of Obama’s birth certificate, or 10,000 — he (and you) will still bear the scarlet letter of tinfoil, per the media/watercooler people.

Time to man up and move on, since the worst is yet to come.

And by the way, I don’t do such emails — nor have I engaged in the discussion of the validity of Obama’s birth cert here — not that it matters to you, Bradky, but just for the record.

Nichevo on October 12, 2008 at 2:31 PM

Time to man up and move on, since the worst is yet to come.

Nichevo on October 12, 2008 at 2:31 PM

Ah one of Seejanemom’s fellow survivalists who can’t wait for the anarchy to descend.

Bradky on October 12, 2008 at 2:35 PM

I think its important to put this citizenship issue into context as it is but one issue in a dizzying house of mirrors that is Obama’s past.

In contrast, McCain was born outside of the United States, yet he provided the necessary context and documentation that assured all that he was indeed born of American citizens who happened to be located on a military base abroad. Everyone agrees and understands – we move on.

Something is being covered up here. It may not be the discreet issue of being a natural born citizen but it may be tangentially related to something else.

Where is Sherlock Holmes when you need him?

turfmann on October 12, 2008 at 2:35 PM

You may see it that way but over half the comments in the thread see it as the hail mary pass to invalidate an election. Say hello to President Pelosi in the interim.

Bradky on October 12, 2008 at 2:26 PM

President Pelosi? I think you need to read up a bit on the Constitution.

The only way Pelosi becomes President, is if this is not ajudicated BEFORE Obama takes the oath of Office… he would then have to leave, and then Biden would have to have a stroke or something…

If its BEFORE hes sworn in, it goes to the Electoral College, and if they can’t get to 270 legaly, then it goes to the House where each STATE gets one vote, but they can only vote for one of the Three top electoral College candidates.

Romeo13 on October 12, 2008 at 2:39 PM

It’s interesting in that it parallels what I believe is Ed’s problem — he still craves approval from the mainstream press for his starched-collar upright stands in defense of “credibility,” but no matter what he does, it’s not going to happen

Comments like these beg for you to get your own blog and see how popular your views really are. But even you have an idea and it is better to spout off on someone else’s site than to see your blog get 4 hits a month for the bots — ask jane she can relate to that. Some call it denial.

Bradky on October 12, 2008 at 2:39 PM

There all all sorts of good stories that advance the ball that are being ignored becuase time and effort are being spent defending Obama. That’s a very bad strategy.

Well, I think Ed is just trying to get at the truth. I’m of two minds about the whole thing, mainly because if it were true, I don’t see how Hillary wouldn’t have dug it up. And I’m amused that the same people who see no problem with violating Sarah Palin’s privacy and launching every kind of vicious attack on her think this is beyond the pale. (Racist code language.)

But I don’t think pointing out the problems with this line of attack is “defending Obama.” Let’s not start asking him to produce a notarized copy of his loyalty oath.

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 2:41 PM

Asking Ed, that is.

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 2:41 PM

So I guess one Grandma is racist & the other has C.R.S! (can’t remember sh*t) I guess the two hospitals mean nothing? The duel citizenship means nothing? The many names obama has used? Information pertaining to his name change? His 1981 trip to Pakistani?…lol…AMAZING!
Anyone else remember the big deal the press made over President Bush just holding the hand of the Arab dude?

christene on October 12, 2008 at 2:42 PM

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/photo-discovered-of-obama-with-fellow.html

Marybeth on October 12, 2008 at 1:38 PM

Winners! NP-endorsed candidates Patricia Martin (far left), Danny Davis (center), and Barack Obama (far right)

HAhahahahahha. About the only time you’ll see those two words after his name.

Everything’s funny at 5am, but that still got me smiling.

‘night.

Reaps on October 12, 2008 at 2:45 PM

Comments like these beg for you to get your own blog and see how popular your views really are. But even you have an idea and it is better to spout off on someone else’s site than to see your blog get 4 hits a month for the bots — ask jane she can relate to that. Some call it denial.

Bradky on October 12, 2008 at 2:39 PM

I’m not into the popularity thing, Bradky, and I don’t believe the hosts of the blog need you, of all people, as their interlocutor. They are free to ban me.

And your blog, Bradky, is…where?

Nichevo on October 12, 2008 at 2:53 PM

Bradky seems awfully passionate about just letting this issue go and is “afraid” the MSM will see us as loons.

Too late, Bradky, they have always considered us as such.

I was born in a very small eastern Washington State town only 2 years after BO was born, and sent for an official copy of my birth certificate in the early 80′s. I received it without a hitch. I can tell you the name of the dude that delivered me.

Why does it seem to be SO difficult for BO to produce his? There is no plausible excuse. Doing so would very easily put this issue to bed, but he refuses to do it. Why? Out of obstinate pride?

And no, this is not taking up my valuable time and energy to the point that I can’t think of all the other crap BO is getting away with, don’t fear.

And no, I am not regarded as a lemming or a conspiracy nut in my very normal, middle class circles.

So, those who are putting us down here for simply questioning the odd circumstances of BO’s seemingly NON-EXISTENT birth certificate, go jump in the lake.

13Girl on October 12, 2008 at 2:53 PM

TheBigOldDog on October 12, 2008 at 2:30 PM

I think the more important point here is that instead of taking a Napoleonic approach, (i.e. when your enemies are destroying themselves, stay out of the way.) or relegating this topic to the tinfoil hat realm, we should step back and look at this objectively.

Berg is a US citizen, and if he feels that the Constitutional requirements have not been met, he is absolutely correct to question this.

When this kind of thing came up for McCain, he handed his records over. I think to congress if memory serves me. When this came up, at about the same time, Obama placed it on his own web pages and Fact Check. As of today, simply handing things over as McCain did would make all this evaporate and Berg look like a jackass.

Ultimately, we can only claim to be under the constitution if we choose to live by the guidelines. No matter what you think about this man, or this allegation, the reality is that this is a constitutional matter.

This is the part that makes this most relevant in my opinion. It isn’t like this is something that I have never been asked to do.

I had to do it when I got my driver’s license, enlisted in the navy and various other times.

This isn’t hard. Why has Obama refused? I would like him to simply comply so that we can either dismiss this or find out why he has been refusing.

Marine_Bio on October 12, 2008 at 2:54 PM

Wonder when and where Obama applied for and received his first U.S. passport.

In order to get a U.S. passport you have show a birth certificate, correct?

albill on October 12, 2008 at 2:54 PM

So what if it is a “hail Mary”…..nice thing about politics is that we get to run a slant, dive, off tackle and Hail Mary all at the same time….

As Berg states, and mentioned above…even if a US Cert…in order to attend school in Indon. he had to renounce his USA Citzshp…….

and if McCain wont press the attack on Ayers, Acorn, Energy and Fannie Mae………..a Hail Mary may be all we have left….
…cant really call timeouts or get instant replays now can we?

sbark on October 12, 2008 at 2:57 PM

Credible enough to make American Thinker.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/this_could_be_the_game_changer.html

sbark on October 12, 2008 at 2:59 PM

Berg may be a troofer, but remember, even a blind pig finds an Acorn (pun intended) now and then.

mghirsch on October 12, 2008 at 3:04 PM

Anyone else remember how outlandish and loony the claims of Clinton was a womanizer were considered before his election, with the claimants being discredited? Though I think this one is bogus, it would be wise to be sure on this one up front.

michaelo on October 12, 2008 at 3:11 PM

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 2:41 PM

Let me be a bit clearer. You have several options with a story like this:

1) Ignore it ad stick to ones that advance your cause.
2) Defend your opponent which does not help your cause be indeed hurts it by diverting your time and attention away from other things
3)Use it to attack your opponent (which could help or hurt depending upon how it’s approached)
4) Cover the story and defend your opponent as a way to get the story out and give yourself political cover for doing so (What I call the Bill O’Reilly strategic approach). I find this approach intellectually dishonest and cowardly.

Seems to me the worst possible approaches are 2 & 4.

TheBigOldDog on October 12, 2008 at 3:13 PM

Call me a loon all day if you want. Obama has NOT produced clear proof he’s a legit U.S. citizen and based on all the lies of the past, I am NOT giving him the benefit of the doubt. I hope Berg is right on this. His argument seems valid and until he’s proven wrong then I’m gonna side with him over Obama on this one.

Let’s put it this way…I’m so convinced that something very shady is going on here, I’d be willing to change my vote from McCain to Obama if Obama would simply stand up and offer 100% proof that he is a legal U.S. citizen.

I’m 99.9% sure he can’t do that.

thewhippingpost on October 12, 2008 at 3:14 PM

Nichevo on October 12, 2008 at 1:37 PM

AllahP’s reference is not to the quality of the comments but to the implementation of the Fairness Doctrine by a Democrat controlled government. At which time all that is left to post will be Britney and Paris and What is Michelle O wearing to the White House Roast of Fidel Castro this week?

ronsfi on October 12, 2008 at 3:15 PM

TheBigOldDog on October 12, 2008 at 3:13 PM

I don’t get how it’s “defending your opponent,” let alone how pointing out facts is “intellectually dishonest.” I’m just silly that way.

Jim Treacher on October 12, 2008 at 3:24 PM

AllahP’s reference is not to the quality of the comments but to the implementation of the Fairness Doctrine by a Democrat controlled government. At which time all that is left to post will be Britney and Paris and What is Michelle O wearing to the White House Roast of Fidel Castro this week?

ronsfi on October 12, 2008 at 3:15 PM

Fair enough, and I can definitely agree with that assessment, but that’s not how RushBaby characterized it.

Nichevo on October 12, 2008 at 3:25 PM

Whether this amounts to anything or not, the use of a newspaper clipping to substantiate the claim that Obama was born in Hawaii, when the clipping says nothing of the sort, is odd to me.

How is that evidence of anything?

I do find it very curious that he maintained an Indonesian passport, and traveled on it as a young adult. I don’t know what that says about his citizenship issues, but it does seem awfully strange.

capitalist piglet on October 12, 2008 at 3:27 PM

Joe Biden is so hoping this is true.

profitsbeard on October 12, 2008 at 3:29 PM

Actually. Here is what the 12th ammendament says,

Reread my comment. I was talking about what happens if the Electors choose to vote for Clinton rather than Obama, in the December votes at the state capitals. The Constitution says not a word about the custom of candidates for Elector pledging to vote for a particular person, and there are historical incidents where they failed to fulfill their pledges.

If 270 of those Electors, chosen next month by voters, say they want Hillary to be President, and those are the votes they transmit to Congress, then she is our next President. That Berg is a Democrat (possibly working for her) will disappear down the Memory Hole, and all of the pissed-off Obamabots will be told it was Dirty Rethuglikkkan tricks that kept him from winning what was rightfully his. She’ll promise a constitutional amendment taking away that pesky “native-born” thing that might even be ratified shortly after she’s re-elected.

The Monster on October 12, 2008 at 3:34 PM

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/photo-discovered-of-obama-with-fellow.html

Sadly, it will get nowhere.

Marybeth on October 12, 2008 at 1:38 PM

That’s a very interesting photograph. I think it undercuts the idea that he was a member of the New Party, though. I have seen printed references to him as a New Party member, but that caption indicates that he was merely endorsed by them.

The communist/socialist groups in America just about always endorse the Democrat in any race, as far as I know. They do in presidential elections, at least.

capitalist piglet on October 12, 2008 at 3:46 PM

Oh, and Marybeth (and all) – if you get a chance, check out Little Green Footballs this afternoon for an interesting bit about Obama and ACORN. He’s trying to minimize his relationship with them, but there are tracks all over the place, with old photos and everything.

capitalist piglet on October 12, 2008 at 3:51 PM

Wow, methinks I started a firestorm…. I’ve been hopping mad about this for some time now. Here’s what we know…
1) Obama has not released his medical records.
2) Obama has not shown his birth certificate.
3) Obama travelled to Pakistan (remember his foreign policy experience?) on an Indonesian passport at age 20.
4) Someone broke into passport records during the primaries, supposedly checking into Clinton, McCain and Obama records. (some blame Hillary, but maybe she was on the right track?)

Califemme on October 12, 2008 at 3:57 PM

Just to play devil’s advocate…
The announcement in the August 13, 1961 newspaper clipping doesn’t mean much proof other than O-baby was born on August 4.
The grandmother could have put in the announcement to let everone know her daughter had a baby boy. Too bad no one can go talk to the grandmother.
The announcement does not say where the baby is born…
(And, yes, I know that if the baby was born in Kenya or where ever Barry O could still run for President since his mother was a US citizen.)
—–
Would really like to see Barry’s Indonesian passport…I am sure it has some interesting things in it plus has the religion listed . Just sayin`, not that it matters, other than he has said he has no past of being associated with a non-Christian religion.
Where are those Republican lawyers and private investigators that are supposed to be digging up the good stuff on this unknown candidate?

albill on October 12, 2008 at 4:06 PM

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