“Economic terrorism”: Huckabee wonders if someone’s trying to drive the market down
posted at 1:49 pm on October 11, 2008 by Allahpundit
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I’m … highly skeptical, but lack the economic chops to debunk this myself. Any financial wizards want to weigh in? He’s right that the market’s been diving late in the day (except yesterday), but I assumed that was due to small investors whose mutual funds are valued as of the day’s closing price trying to unload their shares before the final bell. That’s how it works at my fund. If you don’t get out before the market closes that day, you’re forced to ride it all the way to the closing bell the next day. Normally that’s no big deal, but when the Dow’s dropping 7% every 24 hours and people are desperate for liquidity, every day you wait is potentially thousands of dollars lost. So they’re hanging on until 2 or 3 p.m. or so to give it a chance to recover, and when they see that it hasn’t, they all dump. Or so I thought. Huck thinks differently. Exit question one for people who know what they’re talking about: Is he right or is this just another case of Huckabean economic populism leading him to blame shadowy, nefarious fat cats for a systemic problem? And exit question two: Who, exactly, does he suspect is behind this “economic terrorism”?
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Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:45 PM
have to buy when there is blood in the streets. Is it over yet? Not yet but close. had a major reversal on Friday. most big mutal funds and lpension plans always do there buying and selling at the end of the day to avoid market manipulation charges. The 1:=2:00p hours is what to watch oon Mondat that is when margin calls are sold. If Monday the market stays up around that time means that the deleveraging is about done. I would suggest people start looking for stocks that pay a secured div like Altira or electric companies at these prices. A cd is only paying 3% if you buy altria the div is 7.5% while not 100% gaurenteeed it doesn’t matter what the stock does once you buy it. you will get that 7.5% return for life as long as Altria doesn’t lower their div which they have not for decades. So altria could lose another 10=20% but you will get 7.5% on your money for as long as you hold the stock.
unseen on October 11, 2008 at 2:56 PM
You that based on what exactly? His appeal to the folks in the middle? Surely you jest.
Huck had one group behind him. One group. No one else can stand him. He topped out where he was there was no chance he could convince anyone else he was even sane let alone should be in the Whitehouse.
petunia on October 11, 2008 at 2:58 PM
LOL – thanks, I needed that.
tru2tx on October 11, 2008 at 2:59 PM
I don’t have any theories about who may or may not be manipulating the stock market. What astonishes me is that Obama reportedly has a 15-point lead over McCain on the issue of who is better suited to manage the economy. What are these people smoking? Obama’s “solutions” to fixing an economy broken down by years of irresponsible gov’t overspending and overborrowing is — MORE gov’t borrowing and spending! He wants another “stimulus” bill passed — handing out more money we don’t have to states so that they can repair infrastructure and thereby “create” jobs. It’s FDR’s New Deal all over again — the same New Deal that economists blame for extending the Depression by many years. And a majority of Americans are apparently all for it. I’m starting to think this country has lost its mind.
AZCoyote on October 11, 2008 at 3:00 PM
Nope sorry, not going there today… I almost lost it with Kara26… You just do not understand my distain for this man. It is not totally rational… I understand that… but the depth of his deceptions are just something I need time to get over.
Another twenty years or so of avoiding him might do it.
petunia on October 11, 2008 at 3:02 PM
My stockbroker says that there’s a theory that offshore (and therefore unregulated) hedge funds are collaborating to drive the markets. He points out that the drop rarely, if ever gets to 1,000, which is enough to trigger a shut down of the market.
obladioblada on October 11, 2008 at 3:03 PM
Terrye, are you really trying to argue that because the financial folks in Canada, Aus, and the UK couldn’t predict that the Bush Administration would allow malign forces to try to take down our financial system,
that we shouldn’t hold the Bush Administration accountable for not stopping those malign forces when they had a chance?
funky chicken on October 11, 2008 at 3:04 PM
First of all he’s alluding to George Soros. After all, shorting things is what George Soros does….very well. This is the guy who met with David Brock and Paul Begala to discuss how to take out McCain. Huckabee is a little off. The issue is who were the mysterious people or person short selling financial stocks in around the time Lehman Brothers went belly up. There were news stories about it and threats to “get to the bottom of who it was.” Nobody did.
AYNBLAND on October 11, 2008 at 3:06 PM
Before everybody bashes McCain, I urge you to read this:
http://paxalles.blogs.com/paxalles/2008/09/christopher-c-1.html
remember the howls of fury when McCain said Cox should be fired? The man is damned by conservatives when he is right and damned by conservatives when he is wrong.
And even when he picks a VP nominee, thus setting her up to the the future of the party, who is very much in line with what you love, you still can do nothing but bash McCain.
ingrates.
funky chicken on October 11, 2008 at 3:07 PM
<blockquotepetunia on October 11, 2008 at 2:58 PM
Hey I like him some. I like the Fair Tax idea a lot. I just base it off of what my friends tell me. And they are in the know. I was a Rudy and Mitt man myself. If Fred would have not been in the race in SC I think Huck would have won. If Fred and Huck were not in then Mitt would have won. It would have been nice though to see if Huck could have got the Fair Tax in. Probably not.
Now it is McCain, and I will vote for him. But he was never my choice. He is the biggest RINO in Wash.
kara26 on October 11, 2008 at 3:08 PM
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28973
That link goes to Human Events that has a letter signed by John McCain predicting this. Norm Coleman signed it too, he should use it.
Anyway, it probably wasn’t Soros it was congress who let us down.
And yes funky chicken we should blame Bush too. Why didn’t he have more guts domestically? He never vetoed anything. he never pushed anything. Do nothing whitehouse.
petunia on October 11, 2008 at 3:10 PM
Give a moron his own tv show, he babbles about such things which he doesn’t know squat… and the uneducated believe the crap he’s peddling. Yea… Chucklebee himself could contribute to a down market.
bloviator on October 11, 2008 at 3:10 PM
funky chicken on October 11, 2008 at 3:07 PM
agreed. McCain’s call for COx to get fired was right on the money. his pick of Palin was great. McCain is an honorable man. Obama is not. when an honorable man fights an unhonorable man it becomes hard to win. Bush has to remember that he is still president for the next 3 months and act like it. Call for heads, call for investigations. Use the FBI, NSA use what he needs to protect this country from both forgien and DOMESTIC threats.
unseen on October 11, 2008 at 3:12 PM
I don’t believe in conspiracies, but Schumer and Reid are certainly helping the crisis along by naming banks or insurance companies who they say are about to fail. It’s beyond irresponsible.
Just like they need defeat in Iraq, they need this crisis. Schumer and Indymac
PattyJ on October 11, 2008 at 3:12 PM
Soros is behind MoveOn.org and a lot of liberal politicians and agendas. To rule out the possibility that he has both the will and the power to force such a crisis seems naive.
Question the timing. Not just the afternoon trading but also the proximity to the election.
Disturb the Universe on October 11, 2008 at 3:15 PM
economic terrorism.
Huck’s not the first to say this,..some old terrorist by the name of Osama said this many years ago.
A lot of people are doing things they shouldn’t be doing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA6_k3NtXZs
christene on October 11, 2008 at 3:18 PM
“Anything that can be programmed can be deprogrammed and reprogrammed.”
And since the Chinese have been caught red-handed (pun not intended) at hacking some seriously sensitive systems multiple times…you do the math.
Dark-Star on October 11, 2008 at 3:21 PM
McCain was probably thinking of the uptick rule when he said that about Cox. George Will is not always quick about these things. I don’t think there is any doubt that the removal of that rule contributed to panic. But there are so many factors in this that it is really beyond my understanding.
But I do think it is Freddie and Fannie that created the basic instability. And it is world wide. The world thought we had things under control and invested in our mortgages… We may never get that kind of trust again.
petunia on October 11, 2008 at 3:21 PM
You think Huck’s version is bad….check THIS out…
JetBoy on October 11, 2008 at 3:21 PM
funky chicken:
What? I see, so it was malign forces in the Bush administration who were responsible for all this? If I thought that was true, I would vote for Obama. But I don’t. In fact I find the assertion to be paranoid.
My point is that a lot of the same kind of behavior on the part of lenders who helped create this situation here in the United States were also present in Europe. They were making some suspect loans of their own.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 3:22 PM
Huckabee: Vote MCCAIN. Okay already, I’m voting for Sarah Palin, and Cindy McCain’s husband:)
Dr Evil on October 11, 2008 at 3:23 PM
George Soros
Seven Percent Solution on October 11, 2008 at 3:23 PM
I’m afraid Bush hasn’t remembered he was president for sometime now. I wonder if he isn’t suffering from depression or something.
But if McCain still has a chance Bush needs to get behind closed doors and not show his face until after the election.
petunia on October 11, 2008 at 3:24 PM
As for Bush not stopping this, what about Congress? What have they been doing about any of this? And if Bush had stepped in a year ago and started trying to run the financial sector what would the reaction have been?
No, there were a lot of people who helped create this situation.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 3:26 PM
Mcguyver on October 11, 2008 at 3:26 PM
unseen and petunia:
I think you are both being unfair to Bush. He has been out there dealing with this 24/7 since it began. He was talking about this back as far 2003 and he was getting no support from Republicans to do anything about any of it. none.
I do not think Bush is depressed, I do think he is dealing with the problem, in fact he is meeting with the G7 people now.
I think a lot of people are just ingrates.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 3:28 PM
And the FBI has already launched investigations of AIG, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. I don’t doubt there will be more to come.But right now the idea is to keep this thing from collapsing.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 3:29 PM
I agree it wasn’t Bush alone, but Bush has to bear some blame!
He did try to get some reform in Fannie and Freddie but he gave it up. He shouldn’t have.
He was probably the only one who really could have made the case. Afterall all of us were pretty pleased that our house price was going up so fast. So any legislation was going to be an uphill battle. But it needed to be done.
petunia on October 11, 2008 at 3:29 PM
But don’t we have anyone in our Government, watching the financial markets or a division addressing cyber terrorism. Don’t we have multiple agencies with their ears to the ground?
No one from NSA or CIA has called or let him know:) They haven’t called me either Mike.
Dr Evil on October 11, 2008 at 3:30 PM
Sorry, accidentally hit submit button….
You obviously don’t know any of Huckabee’s cesspool history called Little Rock, AK.
The MSM witch hunt there would make Wasilla, Alaska look like a southern picnic on the bayou.
Mcguyver on October 11, 2008 at 3:30 PM
He has a point.
George Soros has enough economic clout to short financials like Lehman, Bear or even AIG into the dirt. A concerted shorting effort is indeed what brought them down.
Remember, Soros made his billions shorting the U.S Dollar.
Once the SEC and Fed halted shorting these stocks things settled to an extent. Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs were saved by this order. They were both going quickly by way of Lehman!
Once the no shorting ban was lifted on Thursday of last week we saw a two day gyration never experienced before on Wall Street.
Coincidence? I don’t think so. Obama gains as the economy darkens. It’s counter intuitive but for some reason people think Obummer will do a better job fixing the problems.
A Soros (style), economic terrorism angle has to be considered and there is one way to prove it one way or the other.
The SEC has ordered all hedge funds and major trading houses to divulge their short positions. The SEC is not required to publish this information.
It should be published to ferret out any collusion by Democrat operatives.
FireBlogger on October 11, 2008 at 3:30 PM
GET OVER THE HUCK HATING!!! ITs OVER. Your boy Mitt should have gotten out of the race sooner. This whole mess is Mitt’s fault (just using your logic here, but in reverse).
Razorsully on October 11, 2008 at 3:33 PM
When I say “Is Bush depressed?” I say it with compassion. I like Bush too.
But I don’t think he has been that great as President. He has been good with the war for the most part and we haven’t been attacked again and that is vital.
However, he never crossed the Democrats on anything they wanted to do. He didn’t veto anything! He didn’t lead on domestic policy.
petunia on October 11, 2008 at 3:33 PM
petunia:
Yeah, sure he could have made the case. You bet. Just like when he made the case about Social Security and you could have heard crickets chirping on the right. For years I listened to those people piss and moan about the Ponzi scheme that was social security, but when Bush tried to reform it he was pretty much on his own.
And now apparently he is the bad guy for not seeing into the future and predicting a financial meltdown. But all those smart business people were so unconcerned about it all that a mere 12 months earlier they took the DOW to a new high.
And then of course there was the Republican Congress that was in charge for about a decade. Just think if Newt Gingrich had been half as interested in what was going on at FM as he was Monica Lewinsky, we might could have avoided all of this. But did he stop the changes in rules? Nope.
So yeah, a lot of people can be blamed and no doubt if a lot of people had it to do all over again things would be different.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 3:35 PM
petunia:
He did not veto a lot of Republican bills, but once the Democrats took over he did use that veto several times. One of those times was a bloated farm bill and what happened? Republicans crossed the aisle to vote with the Democrats and over rode the veto.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 3:37 PM
Mike Huckabee is trying to get McCain elected, arguing his finer points makes no never mind. Huckabee is a team player but then so is Mitt Romney. What he is saying above video, doesn’t work on me but then it isn’t targeted at me. This one is for the fence sitters, who need a push:)
Dr Evil on October 11, 2008 at 3:40 PM
Somebody in the government was seeing “funny” things going on, this is why the stopped the “short selling” on the financial related stocks. With relatively little money one can gets lots of leverage and help push the stock price down. It just takes a few billion and several players.
It was a snowball effect on the financial system, once you take out the key player, say Lehmann Brothers, the snowball started rolling and it all starts to collapse.
All the financial “wizards” in all the governments have doing is to try to stop the snowball.
It is curious that this financial calamity is happening now right before an election and that it appears to be helping one of the candidates….and it isn’t McCain….
—————
Soros, the billionaires Herbert and Marion Sandler, Peter Lewis and others in their left-wing billionaires club called the Democracy Alliance.
The Democracy Alliance is a major avenue to help them achieve their goals. The roster of its growing membership consists of a list of billionaires and mere multi-millionaires who collectively hope to give upwards of 500 million dollars each year to further promote a left-wing agenda.
(The Sandlers are backers of Air America, ACORN and Media Matters.)
albill on October 11, 2008 at 3:40 PM
Fear? You mean like when Bush, House and Senate leaders came out at the beginning of this thing and yelled “fire”. Or when congressional members were threatened with martial law if they didn’t pass the “Rescue” package? It seems the left isn’t the only side with blinders on these days?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaG9d_4zij8&feature=email
Blame whoever you want. This once great country has been successfully divided and conquered……by our own politicians…both sides….
Ozprey on October 11, 2008 at 3:42 PM
Terrye
I see you like Bush a lot. He wanted to be President with that job comes a lot of baggage. History will blame him for not seeing the future better. That was part of the job to do the heavy lifting. To use the bully pulpit.
I hope Bush gets credit for bring democracy to the Middle East. I hope history will look kindly on him. I think he is right on most of his foreign policy positions. But I think he dropped the ball in domestic policy.
Anyway, some Republicans could see what was happening and if Bush had joined with them they could have convinced others and this mess would have been avoided. Here is the article with a letter signed by Republicans sounding the alarm.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28973
petunia on October 11, 2008 at 3:45 PM
One other very important thing to think about -
What has the left based its entire campaign strategy on for the past 5 years? Anti-war BDS. It was the only thing that got them into office in ‘06.
Because of the success of the surge, that issue was heading off the table. Once the Biden-over-Hillary pick was made and McCain chose Palin, they were scared to death because they really had nothing left. Attention started being focused on Palin and Obama. They didn’t want any scrutiny of Obama because they knew he couldn’t stand up to any. Even the Republican’s VP pick was looking stronger (and cleaner) than Obama.
So what do they do? They try their normal pre-election tactic of talking the economy down. For months in my own local newspaper they focused on class issues and printed up the most negative economy news they could find.
Disregarding the real weaknesses in the market, the economic news remained pretty good and the middle class was not feeling bad enough to suit their purposes, so the simple “talking down” of the economy was not working.
In desperation, they decided to manipulate the market. But I don’t think even they had a clue what would happen next. Now they have a real problem on their hands. So what to do next? Allow slight recoveries each day simply because they must, but take it down again at the end of the day.
A win-win for the Dems because now they can say that scrutiny of Obama is nothing more than a distraction from the economy.
They can’t allow a noticeable improvement in the economy until Obama’s numbers show he walks away with the election.
If the market goes up too much, look for an increase in suicide bombings.
The left has no shame.
Connie on October 11, 2008 at 3:47 PM
Jerome Corsi exposed the conspiracy back in February. Give the man credit.
Buck Farack on October 11, 2008 at 3:47 PM
Ozprey:
I am sorry, I do not buy that. If the people who run the markets had taken care of this themselves Congress would not have gotten involved and neither would the feds. They did whatever they liked and when things got tough, they demanded help from the government. A lot of that panic was coming from Wall Street itself.
I was a realtor back in the 90s and I remember when those rule changes took places. People in housing loved it. They did, they did not ask government to get rid of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. No siree. Even a lot of the lenders got into the act. People can say they were forced to lend money, but once they saw an opportunity to make money there was no forcing them. I know, I dealt with those people.
Now that things are tough they are fluctuating between complaining about government intrusion and demanding help.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 3:48 PM
Yeah, his name is Mr. Oh Peck.
malan89 on October 11, 2008 at 3:51 PM
We saw traders drive the price of oil and ag commodities through the roof. It wouldn’t surprise me if the same people aren’t driving the market down. They make money either way.
huckleberryfriend on October 11, 2008 at 3:51 PM
petunia:
It is not just about me liking Bush, it is the thing we do where we just have to pick a guy and blame him. And as for that letter, there is also the changes Bush requested in regards to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac back in September of 2003. The NYT of all papers ran the article. Bush wanted to move the oversight of those agencies from Congress to the Treasury. It was the biggest change in regulations in years. And Congress rebuffed him.
Who was in control of Congress back in 2003?
So yeah, there have been people who have been sounding alarms for years in all parts of government, but there was never enough of a consensus to make the kind of change necessary.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 3:52 PM
Isn’t that special – from ten months ago.
tru2tx on October 11, 2008 at 3:53 PM
Terrye, I said that the Bush Administration did not act to PROTECT the US economy from action of malign forces.
That is the job of the executive branch regulators, all of whom work for Bush.
Congress is to blame for the subprime crisis, but Bush Admin stupidity is to blame for watching the thing get so serious for months, and for killing the uptick rule, and for quite a few other things.
funky chicken on October 11, 2008 at 3:53 PM
hucleberryfriend:
But when people said that those prices were being driven in part by speculators, what was the reaction? Why that sounded like populism.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 3:53 PM
I see what you did there…
How come it is we don’t really hear about OPEC these days? Seems everyone is blaming everyone…except OPEC.
JetBoy on October 11, 2008 at 3:54 PM
This whole financial mess looks like it was orchestrated by enemies of American capitalism, and America, by preying on the greed inherent in the system.
I don’t believe a crisis of this severity is anything other than deliberately provoked. Thankfully for the miscreants, our typically corrupt legislators and magnates played into their hands.
In the not too distant past (2006 and 2004), a few notorious financiers engaged in market manipulation to sway an election. They have now been joined by a select group of wealthy enemies of state in this mess. They learned quick.
Notice the price of oil. Classic example. Mission accomplished, but don’t provoke the stupid Americans too much. They may actually develop solutions to their energy dependence.
No folks, this isn’t a conspiracy. It’s a bunch of thugs who hate America doing it because they can get away with it.
eaglesdontflock on October 11, 2008 at 3:57 PM
…are crooks.
tru2tx on October 11, 2008 at 3:57 PM
funky chicken:
So are the governments of the rest of the world just as responsible? Is the British government responsible for the fact that they have had to come up with over 800 billion pounds to bail out their financial sector and now they are going to be nationalizing banks? And the Europeans too?
This is bigger than just our government. And it would seem to me that the Congress with its oversight committees has some responsibility to do oversight.
And what exactly was to be done? What support would there have been? What rules were not obeyed? Is this really about a lack of regulation like Obama says?
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 3:57 PM
And the uptick rule? Please, we are in the middle of a credit crisis and we are to believe that a change in the uptick rule is somehow as important as the subprime mess?
And where were all those brilliant Wall Street types during all this? Were they demanding that the Feds come regulate them for their own good?
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 4:00 PM
Nobody likes a conspiracy theory, but just because you think something or somebody is out to get you, does not mean it isn’t true. Come on people. Where’s your sense of timing?
Its a Presidential election year. So far, we have ad the hedge funds calling in the paper on mortgages, then the hedge funds, speculating and paying far too much for oil futures, then the hedge funds selling large blocks of stock, all the while, the Democrats have been creating fraudulent mortgage lending practices, protecting the Freddies and Fannies of the world, over the objections of McCain and other Republicans, a two year period (leading up to this month) where the feds have seen nearly every executive agency lose a vast amount of staff, and replace them in the largest hiring process in recent memory, the entire Civils Rights division of the USDOJ replaced or fired, nearly 600 people fired from EEOC, offices closed, method of business changed, a serious shakeup interally within the FBI, Mukasey and Mueller speaking publicly about ‘public corruption’ being their #1 priority after terrorism (Mukasey’s speech in San Francisco actually used history to tell EXACTLY when is going on), Democrats desperately trying to stop intelligence gathering processes, desperately trying to claim politization of the Justice Department, and none of this lumps together to make sense to anybody but Huckabee? I don’t believe it.
If you know enough about politics, you know the most important thing, nothing happens (unless its from the other side) that is not planned, strategized and tested, first. Come now. (Please excuse the run on sentence, above.) A Presidential year when it all comes to a head and you dare NOT consider it was on purpose? You hear about ACORN trying to steal the vote, while Obama tries to hide the funding he gave them to steal the vote, Democrats deepling involved in the corruption within government, an overly large amount of Republican politicians not running for office again, resigning their positions, not one peep from Justice on any of this and you can’t consider that is all for a reason?
Nobody likes conspiracy theories. Especially not me, but if you don’t watch the videos at http://www.rollovermartin.com you won’t have a clue what is going to happen. The videos will only give you a ‘clue’, not the whole story. How do I know? I’m involved in it. When I mentioned that fact, in passing over at RedState, the website above and its connected sites were scoured over, literally picking every article and watching the videos repeatedly by many persons from California, Michigan , Illinois and Florida (the majority of which visited from email links, not Redstate), but nobody posted responses to the comments. That can only mean those people were not Redstaters. I’ll put this as blunt as I can: I have been ‘noticed’ but I am not under a gag order so; all I will say is, if ‘this’ doesn’t happen before the election, Obama will steal it and you can kiss the democratic republic goodbye. It has been in the works since 1993. Huckabees speculation may be just that, but I can attest that he may not know how close he is to the actual reality of it all. I won’t say anything else about it since Republicans ignore ‘conspiracies’ (even when there isn’t one, anything dramatic is just not believed) and Democrats plan to defend against them by ‘projecting’ their faults on Republicans and anything I would say that would tell what is really going on, would fall on deaf Republican ears, and give Democrats an early warning they shall not get from me.
As a well known Republican Arizona Representative once stated, (last year), there is something coming down the pike.
ilitigant on October 11, 2008 at 4:00 PM
YES–note the letter was from May, 2006. The GOP controlled the US Senate, the US House of Reps, and the White House. Note one of the signatories on that letter is Rick Santorum.
If Bush and Frist had gone all out on this effort back in early 2006, the Senate likely wouldn’t be controlled by the democrats.
If Bush had embraced John McCain’s surge in Iraq before he lost congress in late 2006, the GOP might not have lost the house. McCain was calling for the surge starting in late 2004, but Bush stuck to “staying the course” until he lost both houses of congress.
Bush didn’t find his veto pen to kill porkfests until he lost both houses of congress.
And now the Bush Administration got us in this financial meltdown.
Sorry, but those are facts.
funky chicken on October 11, 2008 at 4:01 PM
Agreed, but don’t hold your breath ;)
Ozprey on October 11, 2008 at 4:03 PM
funky chicken on October 11, 2008 at 4:01 PM
Ah yes, Frist…slipped an anti internet gambling piece of pork on the Port Defense Bill that Bush wasn’t even aware of (and publicly reprimanded him for later). Then he publicly slithered away…my hero……Now the banks plea to the feds because they could never handle the oversight.
Ozprey on October 11, 2008 at 4:08 PM
funky chicken:
Oh please.
If the Republicans had listened to Bush in 2003 there might not have been a need for a letter in 2006.
If Republicans had been more interested in Fannie Mae than they were Dubai this might have been dealt with when they still had control of the government.
As for the surge, I supported it, but there is no way of knowing if it would have worked so well earlier. The people of Iraq had to be ready to turn on AlQaida. But Bush stood firm when many men would not have.
But if the Republican base had not turned on both Bush and McCain calling them Juan McAmnesty and Jorge Bushto maybe they would have entered the elections in 2006 more unified. And if those same Republicans in Congress had been half as interested in the growing subprime mess as they were in corruption and earmarks and all sorts of silly nonsense, then things might have been different in that election.
We can do this what if thing all day.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 4:09 PM
“Then he publicly slithered away” er rather slithered away from the public…..
Ozprey on October 11, 2008 at 4:09 PM
The SEC needs to put a stop to weekend trading for the very select few and after hours trading also.
roninacreage on October 11, 2008 at 4:11 PM
The truth was when people were making money there was no desire for government do get in the way of things. It was not until it hit the fan that all these people start whining about a lack of government involvement in the market.
Now we hear that Bush is supposed to guard Wall Street. It is his job to keep them honest and safe. After all they can’t handle the big bad world without someone holding their hands.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 4:13 PM
Unfortunately all we have is what was and what is. With the MSM providing a billion dollars of free advertising to Obama it’s hard for the, ahem, non-HotAir crowd to understand what’s going on.
We were right to pull for Fred Thompson here. He wouldn’t have been taken in by the trillion dollar bail out bamboozle.
Mojave Mark on October 11, 2008 at 4:14 PM
Mojave Mark;
Oh yes, Fred would have. If he had to be responsible for running something other than his mouth, he damn well would have.
This is my point, people are blaming the government for doing too much and for doing too little.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 4:17 PM
It isn’t 1,000. It is 10%, and that would only shut it down for an hour in most cases.
The president and his minions practically shouted that the end was nigh and the market was on the brink of collapse. Why any money is left there is the real question.
angelat0763 on October 11, 2008 at 4:38 PM
Economic terrorism is not an unreasonable suggestion by Mike and one that any competent leader should examine in light of the financial crisis Americans now face. What’s one sure way of bringing down America? Attack it’s economy! We saw that after 9/11. By the way, what’s been happening these last few years? Well, oil prices have shot through the roof. Who benefits from that? Russia, the Arabs, and Venezuela — all of whom are enemies of the U.S.. Oh, and America’s dollar is worth much less in the world now. Who benefits? America’s enemies. What about nations like China buying up American real estate and huge amounts of it’s debt. Who benefits? America’s enemies. And to the stock market: Market makers can drop the stock price on a whim. It’s market manipulators who control the share price, not you and your purchase. Watch a movie called, “Boiler Room”. The stock manipulation is just disgusting. By the way, how many of you believe the Federal Reserve is part of the U.S. Federal Government? Well, it’s not. The Federal Reserve a group of secretive bankers who loan money to the America Govt.. Watch “America: Freedom to Fascism” for more on this. You have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes folks. I’m not much into conspiracy theories, but that’s not to say some of them aren’t happening. Let me tell you what i know for certain. There is a push for a One World Government, the Bible tells us that, and it’s coming soon to a neighbourhood near you! The headline at Drudge right now is “WORLD FIX”. Another headline there has Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi saying, “(World) Leaders May Close World’s Markets”. All of this we are experiencing is perfectly in line with what the Bible told us would happen in the End Times just before the Rapture. The stage is being set, the actors are taking their places as the drama of the last days spoken of in the Bible approaches. Soon the Antichrist will come onto the world scene and bring peace temporarily and stability back to world markets. Read this for a better explanation. This all seems so unreal, but it is happening. There is no turning back to the life we knew before the events of Sept. 11th. If you’re reading this and the Rapture hasn’t happened yet, get right with god before it’s too late.
apacalyps on October 11, 2008 at 4:40 PM
If what the Huckster is intimating is true, I would not be surprised. Socialist democraps lusting for power is nothing new, if causing economic ruin will help them achieve that power, they will do it. Keep in mind Chuckie Schumer leaking his letter to bank regulators earlier this year caused a run on a bank and then it’s collapse. Then a similar event more recently. Were they setting the stage for something more sinister? I don’t know but I am sure if something is going on it will be uncovered shortly.
Zorro on October 11, 2008 at 4:45 PM
angelat0763:
The other day I was watching Fox business and all these hotshot business people were sitting there talking about how scared they were.
They must have used the word scared a dozen times in a 15 segment.
I have never heard the president or his minions use that word that way.
I think the financial sector went into a tizzy and they themselves are responsible for a lot of this. They were the ones who started pulling money out before Bush even said anything. And then he was criticized for not saying more earlier.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 4:45 PM
Good for you Zorro! Yes – Schumer on a bank and Reid tumbling the insurance stocks. Coincidence? No way!
ilitigant on October 11, 2008 at 4:46 PM
For what it’s worth, I’ve thought this whole thing was strange to be happening as an October surprise. I mean, what are the odds that all of these banks are suddenly going to fail, go bankrupt, need bailing out, etc. at the same exact time. Doesn’t that strike anyone as just a little odd that this all happened within a matter of days?
RightWinged on October 11, 2008 at 4:46 PM
And if the Republican leadership had enforced the immigration law instead of trying to pass the amnesty that the Democrats wanted, perhaps wages would have risen enough to allow people to afford their mortgage payments.
angelat0763 on October 11, 2008 at 4:49 PM
We need to examine this notion of economic terrorism…the world market plummets are too quick…even my broker who has made me a lot of money is wondering about it….and if the MoveOn SOB George Soros has anything to do with it, draw him up by the short and curlies and let him swing upside down to twist in the wind.
gracie on October 11, 2008 at 4:50 PM
Economic terrorism is not an unreasonable suggestion by Mike and one that any competent leader should examine in light of the financial crisis Americans now face. What’s one sure way of bringing down America? Attack it’s economy! We saw that after 9/11. By the way, what’s been happening these last few years? Well, oil prices have shot through the roof. Who benefits from that? Russia, the Arabs, and Venezuela — all of whom are enemies of the U.S.. Oh, and America’s dollar is worth much less in the world now. Who benefits? America’s enemies. What about nations like China buying up American real estate and huge amounts of it’s debt. Who benefits? America’s enemies. And to the stock market: Market makers can drop the stock price on a whim. It’s market manipulators who control the share price, not you and your purchase. Watch a movie called, “Boiler Room (2000)”. The stock manipulation is just disgusting. By the way, how many of you believe the Federal Reserve is part of the U.S. Federal Government? Well, it’s not. The Federal Reserve a group of secretive bankers who loan money to the America Govt.. Watch the film, “America: Freedom to Fascism – Director’s Authorized Version” for more on this. Free on Google video. You have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes folks. I’m not much into conspiracy theories, but that’s not to say some of them aren’t happening. Let me tell you what I know for certain. There is a push for a One World Government, the Bible tells us that, and it’s coming soon to a neighbourhood near you! The headline at Drudge right now is “WORLD FIX”. Another headline has Italian PM Berlusconi saying, “(World) Leaders May Close World’s Markets”. Listen, all of this we are now experiencing fits perfectly in line with what the Bible told us would happen in the End Times just before the Rapture. The stage is being set, the actors are taking their places as the drama of the last days spoken of in the Bible approaches. Soon the Antichrist will come onto the world scene and bring peace temporarily and stability back to world markets. Read this for a better explanation. This all seems so unreal, but it is happening. There is no turning back to the life we knew before the events of Sept. 11th. If you’re reading this and the Rapture hasn’t happened yet, get right with god before it’s too late.
apacalyps on October 11, 2008 at 4:50 PM
Had to fix it. Thank you.
apacalyps on October 11, 2008 at 4:53 PM
I’m no Huck fan, but I’ve been avocating to my close friends that there are actually 3 wars happening at once, Iraq, Afghanistan and economic.
Osama clearly stated that any attack on a US citizen is justified because they pay taxes to the US government which in turn funds the military. Osama has already attacked the pillars, the WTC and the pentagon, with the White House part of the plan as well, until the passengers foiled the last element of his plot. Why wouldn’t he or his cohorts try a different attack strategy?
Given the fact that there has not been an attack on US soil since 01, what makes anyone beleive Osama wouldn’t try another avenue?
There are folks acting in concert here, Soros doesn’t have enough money to do it alone, but that’s not to say he wouldn’t participate. It’s our enemies that are participating here and you can rest assured they are acting in concert. First the high price of oil, now attempting to crash of the stock market.
So ask yourself, who benefits from this calamity? Who benefitted from the high price of oil? Why would this be done at this particular time? It’s all there in front of all of us, the only thing we don’t know is where these trades originate.
There is an old expression, to paraphrase…if you want someone to come around to your point of view, grab them by the wallet.
swami on October 11, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Nothing scary about that? The statement “The market is not functioning properly,” is wrong though. The market is acting exactly as should be expected.
angelat0763 on October 11, 2008 at 4:56 PM
This will be a year end quarter like no other. There’s plenty of cash to be invested, and the world is not coming to an end.
Everyone’s just waiting. Might take a bit longer this year.
Take a deep breath, y’all. You will survive. Does George Soros call the shots along with Buffet and a few others? Yeah, they get a lot of air space. And, yes, Soros owns the Dem party, and he thinks he owns the world.
But guess what? He doesn’t own us. Think for yourselves, go on about your business, tell tell them all to fuck off and keep doing it.
It’s your minds they want more than your money.
Remember this: George Soros along with his uber-rich colleagues are rich beyond comprehension. They are still alive, obviously, yet there is little for them to achieve now other control over other people – the masses – like you and me.
Do Not Give Your Freedom to These Bastards – Never, ever, ever.
Never
Spit in their faces, and say “Never.”
Cody1991 on October 11, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Except they passed the bill anyway.
angelat0763 on October 11, 2008 at 4:59 PM
I wonder who the hell cares what this ethically-challenged loser thinks?!
Shelby on October 11, 2008 at 5:04 PM
Vlad and the Saudis. Garage band coming soon!
funky chicken on October 11, 2008 at 5:04 PM
angela:
Once we again we thank the true conservatives like Newt Gingrich for not doing jack about immigration when they took over Congress years before Bush even came to Washington. It was the same damn policy. Nary a peep out of them.
And as for Bush’s statement on the markets, that was made after stock brokers started sitting their hair on fire and demanding that someone come rescue them.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 5:05 PM
swami:
The answer would be the terrorists and their enablers. However, I am not sure that all of this was part of some plot.
For instance I don’t think they would have engineered such a decline in oil prices. It could be that things took on a life of their own. They often do.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 5:08 PM
apacalyps:
I had the same thoughts about oil prices, but whenever anyone would bring it up free marketers would say it was just increased demand and geopolitical tensions that were driving prices.
Now I am a supporter of the free market, but I have to say I watched those prices and thought this can not be just the market.
But hell, I don’t know.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 5:11 PM
Oil was driven to excess due to speculation. It belongs more where it is now.
The naked shorting scams have been going on for years, but
Huck may be referring more to this suspicion when the shorting ban was put in:
Raising the Specter of Financial Terrorism
econavenger on October 11, 2008 at 5:22 PM
…it is Soros – that man is possessed
by intent to socialize America.Fixed it
ManlyRash on October 11, 2008 at 5:31 PM
Allahpundit, I’m with you–very skeptical. This whole meltdown, with banking and international repercussions, has been predicted for years:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,187831,00.html
Housing Bubble Fact or Fiction?
Tuesday , March 14, 2006
Paul B. Farrell
Excerpt:
“I just learned we live in a metro area that could see a devastating 55.8% decline in home prices in the next five years. Worse yet, most of the real estate north and south of us — from San Francisco to San Diego — is predicted to decline 50% in the next five years. Ouch!
That dire prediction was made by former Goldman Sachs (GS) investment banker John Talbott in his new book, “Sell Now! The End of the Housing Bubble.”
….My files are full of warnings from America’s top economists predicting a housing market collapse and a widespread global disaster: Gary Shilling, Bill Gross, Jeremy Grantham, Robert Shiller, Robert Rubin and others take exception to the deceptive happy-talk of self-serving spinmeisters in Washington, Wall Street, realty brokers and homebuilders.
…The party’s about over. Economist Gary Shilling recently wrote in Forbes: “The current housing weakness will develop into a full-scale rout … It’s clearly a bubble and is nationwide … The house price collapse will induce a painful recession that will send U.S. stocks into a tailspin … China will suffer a hard landing … and weakness in the U.S. and China will spread worldwide.”
Shelby on October 11, 2008 at 6:02 PM
I don’t think Huck’s theory is implausible. It’s at least worth looking into by the relevant agencies.
CP on October 11, 2008 at 6:20 PM
Indeed it was. But with almost everybody in government decreeing that the end of days was almost inevitable, seeing Bush parrot the message certainly should not have been expected to keep investors calm.
We were repeatedly told that nobody even knew if the bailout plan would work. So why should anybody believe it would work?
I just saw another story that said that the IMF leaders announced that the entire world economy is bordering on collapse.
That’ll help.
angelat0763 on October 11, 2008 at 6:26 PM
The oil market isn’t anything like a free market, so yeah….you did know. :)
angelat0763 on October 11, 2008 at 6:28 PM
It is a conspiracy! For cheap booze.
jrl on October 11, 2008 at 7:09 PM
Spot on! And add in Huckabeen’s sermons that he will not release and preacher-man playing music about getting drunk in a bar and having sex with a hooker and then a divorcee (Honky Tonk Woman by the Rolling Stones), and his outrageous gaffes, especially the gun at obama one, and, and, and never-ending…
No Huckabeen, EVER!
Shelby on October 11, 2008 at 7:24 PM
Disclaimer: you expect this joint to have people who know what they’re talking about?
Exit answer one: Yes & no. I’m sure most of this is the usual group dynamics of a herd in panic. My guess is some financial guru is mapping it all out right now for a ‘G. Geko takes it in the end and kills Wall Street’ book deal.’
But insider fat cats smart enough to profit from all this turmoil? Surely, you jest!
Exit answer two: Geo. Soros. Geo. Soros. Geo. Soros. Geo. Soros. Geo. Soros. Geo. Soros. Geo. Soros. Geo. Soros.
locomotivebreath1901 on October 11, 2008 at 7:35 PM
Who’s not having problems now—Russia, Saudia Arabia, Emirates, Dubai, Libya, Venezuela..
Who is…Brittain, Italy, Germany, US, Israel.
This is not the result of just a mortgage meltdown.
eaglesdontflock on October 11, 2008 at 7:50 PM
While Soros has the money and the motive, it seems to me there is more then enough panic, as well as the points about volatility at closing to account for this.
aikidoka on October 11, 2008 at 7:54 PM
If Soros is involved, you won’t know. This mess has a lot of high rollers involved. This is just to catastrophic to be panic. It’s orchestrated destruction.
eaglesdontflock on October 11, 2008 at 8:01 PM
I’ve noticed that when the markets are going up, Democrats whine that the poor are being “left behind again.” When it is going down, they cry about “good, hard working families losing their 401k’s.”
Star20 on October 11, 2008 at 8:51 PM
The American People…PWNED
equanimous on October 11, 2008 at 9:12 PM
I probably should not comment on anything that Huckabee says. I view this man as one step from pond slime. He has not been ethical or accurate in much that he has said to this point, so I see no reason at all to give him credence over the mysterious evil guys that are crashing the market on purpose.
Frankly, the faster and farther away this guy goes from our politics the better off we will all be. He is just fishing for air time so he stays in people’s minds. The problem is that he is creating more fear by saying things like this. That is not helpful.
The very idea that Huckabee will publicize something as unsubstantiated as this to the American people, and further erode trust in our financial institutions (especially at this delicate time) shows that he will stop at nothing to be self-serving. Even helping to make the economy even worse by rumor mongering is not out of his range of depravities. This guy is a clown and he just cannot stand to see his circus close.
Hawthorne on October 11, 2008 at 9:14 PM
Allahpundit notices that there is not enough dissention between the ranks of conservatives to keep him happy.
So – what does he do?
He regurgitates a shined-up turd screaming “HUCKABEE”.
Yup – that’ll help us. Allahpundit: he’s as helpful as leprosy.
grtflmark on October 11, 2008 at 9:15 PM
Your conjecture is incorrect. Russia is not in particularly good shape and Venezeula is struggling too. The drop in oil prices is chewing them up. Especially in Venezuela where they need the oil revenue to fund their socialist system. The other oil producers will not be far behind.
Hawthorne on October 11, 2008 at 9:18 PM
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