“Economic terrorism”: Huckabee wonders if someone’s trying to drive the market down
posted at 1:49 pm on October 11, 2008 by Allahpundit
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I’m … highly skeptical, but lack the economic chops to debunk this myself. Any financial wizards want to weigh in? He’s right that the market’s been diving late in the day (except yesterday), but I assumed that was due to small investors whose mutual funds are valued as of the day’s closing price trying to unload their shares before the final bell. That’s how it works at my fund. If you don’t get out before the market closes that day, you’re forced to ride it all the way to the closing bell the next day. Normally that’s no big deal, but when the Dow’s dropping 7% every 24 hours and people are desperate for liquidity, every day you wait is potentially thousands of dollars lost. So they’re hanging on until 2 or 3 p.m. or so to give it a chance to recover, and when they see that it hasn’t, they all dump. Or so I thought. Huck thinks differently. Exit question one for people who know what they’re talking about: Is he right or is this just another case of Huckabean economic populism leading him to blame shadowy, nefarious fat cats for a systemic problem? And exit question two: Who, exactly, does he suspect is behind this “economic terrorism”?
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Well, I don’t know about internally, but there’s no question in my mind that OPEC has been waging active war on us with the price of oil. That’s too obvious for anyone to ignore.
progressoverpeace on October 11, 2008 at 1:52 PM
If Huckabee were president the market would’ve tanked double and triple as much as when Bush spoke.
Those twitching eyebrows even scare the little children.
Please protect your children from Huckabee. Please.
Mcguyver on October 11, 2008 at 1:53 PM
The market is going down because people are realizing that American consumers can’t pay back their debt, and Uncle Sam can’t pay back the debt to China. We’re about to become the Weimar Republic.
lodge on October 11, 2008 at 1:53 PM
Since I have zero to offer on knowing the economy angle, all I can offer is the prime suspect: Soros. He has the money and the evil intent.
anniekc on October 11, 2008 at 1:54 PM
This would not be the first time Soros has done something like this for his own benefit.
I call it the “Reichstag Strategy” – cause a disaster right before an election and pin the blame on you opponent.
ksm on October 11, 2008 at 1:54 PM
AQ picked WTC for a reason. It wasn’t a military target. But I don’t know enough about financials or have access to the data to see who the sellers are.
Spirit of 1776 on October 11, 2008 at 1:55 PM
I can’t watch Huckabee. I explode in anger. I’m working through my personal distaste, give me time. My religon teaches that it is essential that I forgive him so I will. But it doesn’t say I have to do it today.
That said. I have had that thought as well. Who does this benefit? Who has this much power? I’m not sure anyone has the power but there is plenty of motive. Plenty of motive and plenty of proof of the will to hurt many to get your way. So if it is possible to be done… Obama would do it.
petunia on October 11, 2008 at 1:55 PM
Do you have anyone in mind? Paulson? Bernanke?
I’ll volunteer, if you don’t.
Mcguyver on October 11, 2008 at 1:55 PM
The last hour has always been more volatile than the rest of the day, at least by my recollection. Closing marks a discontinuity, so all action around that is distorted, as with the opening. I think that this extra volatility is just much more noticeable given the fact that the mean volatility is so unbelievably high.
progressoverpeace on October 11, 2008 at 1:57 PM
George Soros comes to mind. He would like nothing better to see the U.S in ruin. He has the financial wherewithal to drvie the economy into the gutter. Remember the socialist Democrats prosper when the U.S. is all doom and gloom.
Can’t say any of this is true, just a theory.
nwsseeker on October 11, 2008 at 1:57 PM
I doubt it too, BUT remember Geroge Soro’s took on the UK and ran the pound into the ground, and made billions. I would not be surprised if he had his hands in this, more than likely it’s the market being scaried sh*tless that Barry will win and turn the USA into a socialist country.
Kempermanx on October 11, 2008 at 1:58 PM
Huckabee gets paid to twitch eyebrows on TV, now?
I’m not clicking.
Give me more robots, please.
Mcguyver on October 11, 2008 at 1:58 PM
I’m a slow typer, seems others ahead of me had the same idea.
nwsseeker on October 11, 2008 at 1:59 PM
Id call it a strong theory
William Amos on October 11, 2008 at 2:00 PM
Huckabee’s Law: The rate of economic growth is inversely proportional to the number of Arkansans frying squirrels in their popcorn popper.
Exurban Jon on October 11, 2008 at 2:00 PM
Someone in my family suggested that this is to drive the baby boomers back into the workplace as a means of boosting the federal coffers (aka, SS, MediCare, etc).
beatcanvas on October 11, 2008 at 2:00 PM
drvie = drive
nwsseeker on October 11, 2008 at 2:02 PM
progressoverpeace on October 11, 2008 at 1:52 PM
Neh… they charge as much as the markets will pay.
DaveS on October 11, 2008 at 2:03 PM
While it’s nice to think someone is in control. I think were on a runaway train and Casey Jones is at the wheel.
ronsfi on October 11, 2008 at 2:04 PM
It does seem strange that all these problems occur before the election especially when given the fact that so many leaders from other countrys want Obama.
Maybe after the polls tightend after the repu convention they saw there boy might lose and they took action.
kangjie on October 11, 2008 at 2:04 PM
I’m sorry, but Huckabee is a Grade A moron. He has no idea what the hell he is talking about. There isn’t some grand scheme here people. It is fear of people losing their money that is bringing the market down.
Lance Murdock on October 11, 2008 at 2:04 PM
Scary sinister.
OT How about a little cute sinister?
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2008/10/beware-of-al-barbie.html#readfurther
BL@KBIRD on October 11, 2008 at 2:07 PM
No individual investors own enough stock to affect the market. It’s the mutual funds, banks and insurance companies that drive market changes, and a lot of their trading is done toward the end of the trading day.
q2600 on October 11, 2008 at 2:07 PM
This is what is so laughable about Obama’s plan to steal from the rich, give to the poor. The really “rich” people never suffer in downtimes, and no matter what you’ve got, someone behind you has less.
The more I think about it, the more likely it is Soros- that man is possessed by intent to socialize America.
anniekc on October 11, 2008 at 2:07 PM
As much as I loathe conspiracy theories, just on the very narrow question of who Huckabee has in mind: it’s Soros. In 2003/2004 he got caught massively shorting the dollar for no particular reason except to tank currency markets. And of course he almost singlehandedly brought down John Major’s conservative government.
But this crash was a long time coming. Would it have happened next month but for shadowy “manipulation”? No idea. Was it inevitable given that the Democrats had spent 15 years magically transforming good debt into bad debt in a universe where, unfortunately, magic doesn’t exist? Yes.
omriceren on October 11, 2008 at 2:07 PM
Here’s the best argument against most conspiracy theories:
Exurban Jon on October 11, 2008 at 2:08 PM
Since Bin liden shorted the airlines before 9/11 it is a possibility. also a lot of Obama supporters are big shots on wall st. Since the recent market drop is helping Obama there is a chance.
We have many enemies in the world an attack on our economy CAN happen. is it happening now? the underlying concerns say NO however that does not mean that they are not piling on.
unseen on October 11, 2008 at 2:08 PM
Will somebody PLEASE shut this guy up. He’s an idiot.
HornetSting on October 11, 2008 at 2:08 PM
Someone who isn’t looking out for the “folks”
VolMagic on October 11, 2008 at 2:08 PM
Individual investors are currently having a negligible impact upon the market. The majority of the ups and dows are driven by the larger, more unregulated funds (i.e. hedge funds and other funds that act similar to hedge funds). The other funds could be other organizations similar to Fannie and Freddie as well as large endowments (Harvard, Yale, etc). These types of organizations are probably responsible for over 75% of what is happening right now.
davenp35 on October 11, 2008 at 2:10 PM
No. They collude and seek to cripple the US. They made overt attack with oil in the 70’s, which they were only lucky that we didn’t respond to by appriately taking back the oil fields. Then they funded terrorism against us and now they are back to using the price of oil, too. You’d have to be deaf, dumb, and blind not to see it.
progressoverpeace on October 11, 2008 at 2:11 PM
It’s Huckabee so go with the default target for all blames great and small: Mitt Romney.
By the way, Mike, thanks for saddling us with McCain, ya fat pile of turd.
FYI, 2012? Sarah’s gonna knock your fatass outta the race by Michigan. I will celebrate with a frosty beverage, a Cuban cigar, (Obama and the Deep Blue will lift the embargo, count on it) and a hearty laugh.
Don’t come back now, y’hear?
SuperCool on October 11, 2008 at 2:12 PM
The real answer Huck wanted to give:
“You know who might be behind this type of economic terrorism? Mitt Romney, that’s who.”
tgibson1962 on October 11, 2008 at 2:12 PM
What about the Chinese being suspected of hacking into the World Bank?
Even Osama knows/knew the best way to destroy America is through our economy.
The suspects who could do this type of thing would be Soros, Putin and the Chinese.
moonsbreath on October 11, 2008 at 2:13 PM
Um, isn’t this kind of a no-brainer? You guys are letting your personal dislike of Huckabee blind you. McCain was right about Chris Cox too–moron guarding the henhouse.
funky chicken on October 11, 2008 at 2:13 PM
Most people think that the Lehman failure is what started this. Why was Lehman allowed to go under? If lehman was bailed out like Bear Streans, AIG, Fannie and Freddie none of this selloff would have happend. The credit crunch is directly resulted from Lehman’s failure as banks don’t know what exposure other banks have to lehman and do not know if another bank will be allowed to go under.
So who allowed Lehman to go under? Paulson. and then he got $700 billion to play with. The timing is suspect. If you are a new world order type of person this crisis is playing right into your hands as world governments Taxpayers across the globe are paying trillions to the elite. this whole thing seems wrong on some level,
unseen on October 11, 2008 at 2:14 PM
If his lips are moving, I put my hands over my ears. Thank goodness in this case I can refuse to click. I with petunia on the forgiveness factor, but today is Saturday and college football day at that. GO SOONERS!
Look, Huckahu Akbhar is a day late and a dollar short on this one. Rush said last week that this was done to hurt McCain and presto it looks like it did. Some are saying THIS was the October surprise for the GOP. I believe the Dems or those on the Dems side like Soros and Co. are responsible for this, and no I am not currently wearing my tinfoil hat and no black helicopters are not flying outside my home.
I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, and I did not receive my degree in anything remotely connected to numbers or economics. However, as the saying goes it does not take a rocket scientists, or a Paulson, (OY!), to figure out this was a ticking time bomb. If people like McCain and Libby Dole have been warning us about the impending doom then it makes sense eventually things were going to go Kablooey. Even the Donald was touting doom. So how hard would it be to kick over the ant hill?
Dodd and Frank had better be watching Reid and Pelosi with all their eyes, because they are the ones that probably helped engineer this despite the possible damage it could, (BIG COULD), cause Dodd and Frank.
freeus on October 11, 2008 at 2:14 PM
Hmmm…. lets recap…
World Bank hacked for the past year by IPs from China.
Chinese banks won’t lend to US banks.
And Yes, this pattern did hold for Friday as well, we were up a couple of hundred points with an hour left of trading, then it plummeted to a couple hundred down. Swung 300 to 400 points in the last half hour or so.
Someone needs to look at this selling pattern…. FAST.
Romeo13 on October 11, 2008 at 2:14 PM
The more interesting explanation for me is the one involving automated trading software. I can’t find a reference, but it has to do with sell triggers and other automated behavior.
I personally think that a significant proportion of market volatility is a direct result of lazy traders using these omnibus “StrategyDesk” trading applications. If you get enough day traders using these things, then you start to see the kind of trashing normally seen in large-scale computational simulations. I’ll bet that if you require all buy and sell orders be initiated by verbal agreement, you’d see volatility and overall bearishness drop by a good 10-20%.
spmat on October 11, 2008 at 2:15 PM
Umm. The market is going down because everybody is selling their stocks. It seems unlikely that everyone selling stocks over the last few weeks was in on the conspiracy. Conceivably, a few people could have acquired shares over the last little while in order to sell them off now but, of course, if they acquired enough shares to affect pirces now, their acquisition would have driven stock prices up by an equal amount a couple of weeks ago.
pussum207 on October 11, 2008 at 2:15 PM
Does anyone recall back at the beginning of all this mess, when McC was starting to pull ahead, some remarks by dingy harry expressing some doubts as to the market.
Considering that the market is a very jumpy place, the remarks were taken by some as the equivelent of yelling ‘fire’ in a theater. Kind of starting an early run / panic. Why he would do this, well, read this: http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2008/09/obama_the_mortg.html just saying.
Da_Hutt on October 11, 2008 at 2:16 PM
Soros, he has done this before
Wade on October 11, 2008 at 2:16 PM
When I first heard that trading was being done by computer I had a sneaking suspicion. Of what? I didn’t know.
My spidey senses are tingling and I think Huck may be onto something here.
Tuning Spork on October 11, 2008 at 2:16 PM
Err.. *thrashing not trashing. :-/
spmat on October 11, 2008 at 2:16 PM
The SEC should investigate this, but they are asleep at the switch.
indythinker on October 11, 2008 at 2:17 PM
The SEC should investigate this, but they are asleep at the switch.
indythinker on October 11, 2008 at 2:17 PM
The SEC got rid of the uptick rule for shorts. Last July. since then the market has done nothing but go down. The SEC might be part of the problem. Cox is an idiot or in deep with the shorts either way he should be fired. McCain was right Cox needs to go
unseen on October 11, 2008 at 2:20 PM
The Socialist Exchange Comrades (SEC) are too busy seizing banks to worry about this.
Romeo13 on October 11, 2008 at 2:20 PM
It occurred to me something might be up, but I don’t think it was Paulson or Bernacke. I don’t know who might have done it, but I am sure there are plenty of suspects.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:23 PM
Well, SNL thinks the same thing. Don’t they have Soros owning the $700 billion, shorting the dollar, and then planning even more nefarious events for next week?
I don’t think its Soros — but I could be wrong.
I think there is a lemming effect going on here, where people are driven to sell because they think the sky is falling. We have one Senator who caused every insurance company in the nation to suffer huge damage just by running off his uninformed motor mouth. Imagine all the other motor mouths belonging to so called financial pundits (such as Greenspan, who now looks like a dick for failing to catch the root cause of all this). When Bush mentioned in his address finding and prosecuting those who try to drive the market down to profit, he’s implying something.
Maybe he should look at banning short selling. I think less volatility, rather than more, is needed in the market.
We are no longer investors in our economy, we are speculators. There’s a difference, and it’s a big one. No sane marketplace permits the kinds of derivative securities that Wall Street has manufactured — and “liquidity in the market” (or what I think is actually “churning”) is just another way for the brokers to take their cuts over and over.
I think that the people buying stocks now to hold are going to reap huge profits, while those who unloaded their stocks at these hugely undervalued prices are going to rue the day. Remember, for stock prices to fall, they have to be bought at the lower price.
unclesmrgol on October 11, 2008 at 2:23 PM
Bingo. Soros bought in late, after Bear Stearns, thinking the government would bail Lehman out, too. I read an article from a Lehman gal who said they were expecting a bailout and were in total shock when it didn’t happen.
Connie on October 11, 2008 at 2:24 PM
why did paulson have to announce this when he did? I don’t think its a stretch to think he coordinated this with the democratic congress, as an october surprise.
right4life on October 11, 2008 at 2:25 PM
Don’t worry, there will be no good news about anything until Obama wins the election, and then suddenly everything will get much, much better, and we’ll all remember that we have always been at war with Eastasia.
drunyan8315 on October 11, 2008 at 2:25 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_raid
Thought I remembered that this even had a name… and with the SEC getting rid of the uptick rule last year… very interesting.
Romeo13 on October 11, 2008 at 2:26 PM
unseen:
But when the ban on short selling was lifted it did not help.
I don’t think it was Cox or any of those people. I think Lehman was allowed to fail because they did not realize how big this was going to get. The thing that has amazed me the most is that so many people did not see this coming.
And I am not just talking about Paulson or Cox either, firms like Lehman Bros just walked right into this. All sorts of really successful business people from all over the world seemed to have been caught flat footed on this.
Why just blame the politicians?
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:26 PM
Wow, the conspiracy theorists have really come alive here in the comments.
Don’t you guys ridicule places like DailyKos for always blaming Karl Rove for everything that happens? And now a good amount of commenters here are seriously blaming Soros for the market crashing? This is the exact kind of post that shows up as an example of “look how crazy the commenters are.”
tneloms on October 11, 2008 at 2:26 PM
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:23 PM
The easiest way to have citizens fall in line is allow a rabid lion into a village. As they panic step up and tell them you will kill the lion. You allow the panic to increase all the while you keep saying you are going to kill the lion. Just as the panic reaches a cresendo you step in and kill the lion and then you nail the skin to the wall. You will be elected leader for life.
Sounds like what is happening right now. doesn’t it?
unseen on October 11, 2008 at 2:27 PM
How much loyalty might Paulson still have to GS?
Bear-Stearns in trouble: middle finger
Lehman in trouble: middle finger
Countrywide, WaMu, etc, in trouble: middle finger
Goldman-Sachs: Hey, why doncha just become a “normal” bank so you can attract more customers with FDIC-insured deposits!
innominatus on October 11, 2008 at 2:29 PM
Didn’t they only ban shortselling on a select group of Bank Stocks?
Romeo13 on October 11, 2008 at 2:29 PM
right4life:
I don’t thinks so. For one thing he is not responsible for the fact that there is a Democratic Congress, the voters are. For another thing, this was announced when it was because of the ongoing crisis. Bush had to go on TV, remember? Europe and Asian markets tanking. Nothing Paulson did was an isolated event.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:30 PM
I think there was a deliberate intention to drive the market down exploiting existing weaknesses, but that it blew up into something much bigger than the left ever expected. The Dow almost ended up back in the black Friday. It went up there, then was driven down. This only benefits Democrats. Something nefarious is going on. And Soros has been very quiet.
Connie on October 11, 2008 at 2:30 PM
Who profits?
Obama’s supporters.
profitsbeard on October 11, 2008 at 2:31 PM
Romeo:
To be honest I am not sure. I was watching Fox business one day and they were talking about this and I did not get the impression that the ban was only on a select group of Bank stocks, but what the hell do I know? An expert I am not.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:31 PM
One other important thing to remember. Soros can afford to lose money.
Connie on October 11, 2008 at 2:32 PM
Oh please – even in normal times – the average lazy trading day – the volume tends to be much heavier at the beginning and the end of the session. The tendency is exaggerated during times of high volatility – and is the most predictable aspect of recent events.
I like Huck more than some, but he’s deeply irresponsible to be talking about “economic terrorism” without proof. Just look at the comments above to see how desperate many otherwise rational people are to find scapegoats or trace out conspiracies.
We screwed up bigtime, have been doing it for more than a decade, and are now paying the price. Huckabee should check himself before he wrecks himself – unless he really is trying to carve out a position for himself as the Huey Long of Depression 2.0.
CK MacLeod on October 11, 2008 at 2:32 PM
I can see not bailing out Lehman, but then to turn around and do it for AIG. That confused me.
Spirit of 1776 on October 11, 2008 at 2:32 PM
Thinking on it… I don’t think this is some huge over riding conspiricy, so much as someone, or group, taking advantage of the situation and rules…
There are many throughout the world who would be happy to Kick America when its down.
Romeo13 on October 11, 2008 at 2:32 PM
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:30 PM
then why did Paulson allow Lehman to go under. The thinking was there banks couldn’t go under they were too big to fail. then they allowed it to fail at the exact time that McCain was surging in the polls, The timing is suspect. There could be no there there but it is concerning
unseen on October 11, 2008 at 2:33 PM
Connie:
On Fox business on Friday the people on the floor said that several financials had orders to sell at the ending bell which would mean the Dow would drop at the end of the day unless someone stepped in to sell. They were giving notice ahead of time to give people time to put in buy orders if they wanted to.
So I wonder how many companies have been doing that…putting out orders to sell right at the end of the day.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:34 PM
And sometimes there really is a conspiracy. No one is saying that Soros brought the whole financial crisis on.
Connie on October 11, 2008 at 2:34 PM
http://www.clusterstock.com/2008/10/sec-loses-faith-in-chris-cox
http://paxalles.blogs.com/paxalles/2008/09/christopher-c-1.html
good old George Will…POS
funky chicken on October 11, 2008 at 2:35 PM
Sorry, OT: from NRO, an entry quoting Palin at length on abortion, speaking in the town where Obama said “punished with a baby.” You don’t have a soul if you’re not moved.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OGFhNzlkOTZiYjcxNmNmYmJmYWRmZTM1MjkzMTM5MWQ=
I hate the way McCain’s been conducting the campaign lately. But Palin’s remarks remind me of the title of one of the later episodes of HBO’s Band of Brothers. The title is “Why We Fight.” And it centers on the company’s liberation of one of the smaller German concentration camps.
I can live with losing in November, backing a candidate who expresses the sentiments that Palin does above.
FWIW, on a similar note, here’s an NRO article by Father Berg addressing abortion in the context of our economic downturn.
http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=OGQzMmI1MjlmYzVlNmY1OTJkZTUwYzdhMWYyMTQ2Y2Q=
BuckeyeSam on October 11, 2008 at 2:36 PM
Yeah, I saw that… and didn’t he say somthing about it was “somthing like he’d never seen before”? Trying to remember…. dang it…
Romeo13 on October 11, 2008 at 2:36 PM
It’s a good rumor/conspiracy theory to hawk. There’s no proof to back it up, but since nobody can coherently explain what is happening on the markets right now, and everyone is in a panic, it might stick. Is Huckleberry Hound saying that pro-Obama people are the ones tanking the market, or is he saying it’s the Russkies and al-Qaeda?
Outlander on October 11, 2008 at 2:37 PM
unseen:
A couple of things. If Paulson had stepped in and bailed out Lehmans a lot of people would have been just as critical of that as they were the other attempts of the government to intervene in the market. It seems that no matter which route the government takes someone accuses them of some bad intent.
I think they did not realize that Lehmans would go under until it did and then they hoped that would be isolated, and of course it was not. I don’t recall Lehmans being too open about their status. Maybe I missed all that, I was not paying too much attention then, but did Lehmans ask for help?
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:37 PM
Anyone here still think Huckley would have made a good Prez, or a good Veep?
Idiot studying to be a moron, hoping to land a job in a poor defenseless village somewhere.
trailboss on October 11, 2008 at 2:38 PM
Romeo:
It is impossible to remember all that stuff.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:38 PM
The Bailout will happen after the election of the ONE and Soros will get his money back plus more.
William Amos on October 11, 2008 at 2:38 PM
So I wonder how many companies have been doing that…putting out orders to sell right at the end of the day.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:34 PM
I was 100% in cash until yesterday. I place some of my 401k back in the market at friday’s close. I also bought some Altria and duke energy friday paying 7.5% and 6.9% div respectfully. We are very close to a bottom in the market. the market works on supply and demand. and fear and greed. Most of the people that was going to sell have sold.
unseen on October 11, 2008 at 2:39 PM
Neil Boortz was all over this. apparently Goldman Sachs is a major shareholder in AIG, but had nothing in Lehman Bros.
tinfoil hat? hey, you tell me.
I’d like to see Paulson testify for a month or two under oath about why he watched this situation develop and decided 6 weeks prior to an election to run out and scream “GREAT DEPRESSION” to the American people.
funky chicken on October 11, 2008 at 2:39 PM
Didnt Cuomo from NY say he was already going to step in at AIG even before the feds ?
William Amos on October 11, 2008 at 2:40 PM
Extreme paranoia.
B26354 on October 11, 2008 at 2:41 PM
I see others are also suspicious of George Soros. Wasn’t it the Malaysian foreign minister (or prime minister) who blamed Soros for shorting Asian currencies, driving SE Asia into recession — which had the happy benefit here in the US of driving gas prices way down. This was around 1998, IIRC.
rbj on October 11, 2008 at 2:42 PM
Yes Mr. Huckabee, something (more than somebody) is trying to drive the market down; it’s called Vanity, Greed, Corruption, Evil; and most of all, it’s called The New World Mafia otherwise known as The Democrat Party.
Keemo on October 11, 2008 at 2:42 PM
BuckEye:
I don’t hate the way McCain has been conducting the campaign half as much as I hate the way people have to second guess every move he makes. As if we are all experts and no everything.
McCain picked Palin because that is what the base wanted, and I think she has brought both positive and negative things to the campaign, but that does not mean that picking her was the smartest thing McCain could have done, whatever the base might say.
But he did it and that took some political courage. So I say, let’s refrain from assuming he does not know what he is doing.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:42 PM
Yesterday was the auction for the Lehman unwind. Insurers had been selling assets in order to be ready to payoff their obligations (called CDS for credit default swap). As soon as that auction was done, the insurors knew where they stood and the market recovered. The total obligation as a determined by the auction is $365 billion, which was higher than expected, but perhaps the insurers now have the cash on hand to pay off. They have two weeks to do that now. Once they have paid that money, the recipients will be free to put that $365B back into the market. My theory is that the reason the TED spread is so high is that the sellers of the CDSs can only park their money in Treasuries, and so that pile of $365 billion has been sucked out of other markets and driven Treasury notes low. That, and all the people pulling out cash in panic has caused a liquidity shortage, which in turn causes a solvency problem for the banks. Once the $365 billion payout is complete, the market will return to normal.
At the time Paulson decided to let Lehman fail, people thought they were not in such bad shape with the cost only $300 million (e.g. http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2008/09/16/3654767.htm). Perhaps the panic itself made the Lehman positions worth less and so the whole thing fed on itself.
There are rumors that there the last of some big margin calls that were required by some banks will be on Monday. So that could be rough, but in two weeks it looks like things will start to recover, and sooner if the Lehman insurers pay off sooner rather that end the end of the time limit. Given that the Treasury notes are essentially zero interest, hopefully they can be persuaded to do that.
pedestrian on October 11, 2008 at 2:44 PM
If we (the people) don’t demand and get a thorough and complete investigation into this crisis, then we the people are no longer a government By the People, For the People.
Lots of guilty parties need to have their day of reckoning.
Keemo on October 11, 2008 at 2:44 PM
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:37 PM
No they knew what would happen. the fed and treasury and all the major players met over the weekend before lehman went under trying to work out a plan. Paulson nor the fed would back the takeover with taxpayer money like they did with bear streans. because of this the other banks decided it was too risky to buy ?Lehman. Lehman had a run on its banks as big investments pulled their money out. The Fed could have offered the deal it did to AIG. If the fed and treasury are too stupid to understand the ramifications of lehman going under they do not deserve to be in office. They /KNEW exactly what they were doing. The question is did they know what would be the result?
unseen on October 11, 2008 at 2:45 PM
unseen:
There are some real deals out there right now. If people are brave enough to give it a try.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:45 PM
The soros move is on
William Amos on October 11, 2008 at 2:45 PM
For one thing he is not responsible for the fact that there is a Democratic Congress, the voters are. For another thing, this was announced when it was because of the ongoing crisis. Bush had to go on TV, remember? Europe and Asian markets tanking. Nothing Paulson did was an isolated event.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:30 PM
dem congress has nothing to do with the SEC and the Treasury Department. That’s all Bush Admin. sad but true
Really, read this:
http://paxalles.blogs.com/paxalles/2008/09/christopher-c-1.html
what was Cox thinking in tossing out the uptick rule? I sometimes like to listen to this guy:
http://www.bobbrinker.com/radio.asp
usually very sobor, almost boring. A few weeks ago he was SHOUTING about the uptick rule. After I got home I started googling and was just … stunned. Cox threw out a rule that had protected the markets, and was initiated during the Great Depression to make sure it wouldn’t happen again.
What on earth made him think 6 months ago was time to ditch it?
funky chicken on October 11, 2008 at 2:46 PM
unseen:
They may or may not have known what was going to happen. I guess I think that Paulson was in a bad place, someone had to be in that job at this time and because I do not begin to understand all this I don’t feel comfortable assuming he is a bad man doing bad things.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:47 PM
Well well, so we take on the trappings of the party out of power… conspiracy theories.
It might be silly but this is way more fun than looking at the polls!
Besides: Soros=Obama and it is not beyond the realm of possiblities and if evidence emerges we don’t want to be caught with our heads in the sand.
Although I did not listen to Huck. It is likely that he was trying to blame Romney. That’s funny. And pathetic.
petunia on October 11, 2008 at 2:47 PM
Except I predicted this almost a year ago. I never thought it would be this bad and that’s where I was wrong.
Connie on October 11, 2008 at 2:48 PM
Bl@ackbird @ 2:07
Can’t say it any more, “you can tell it’s Mattel, it’s swell” since they’ve endorsed Islamic propaganda to children. The makers of GI Joe, Barbie and Ken have bypassed progressive multiculturalism with Islamic dogma instead of tolerance.
maverick muse on October 11, 2008 at 2:48 PM
Ummmm…no. Go listen.
Connie on October 11, 2008 at 2:48 PM
I predict the Market will zoom up on November 5th.
BBO.
Buy before Obama.
profitsbeard on October 11, 2008 at 2:49 PM
Pelosi and Reid in particular are guilty of rumor FEAR mongering to defeat American capitalism with formal “announcements” to the press.
maverick muse on October 11, 2008 at 2:50 PM
funky chicken:
Yes and no. The SEC is just as behind the times as our intel community was on 9/11. And Cox said himself that rules should have been changed long ago. After all some of these rules have been in place for decades. Considering the fact that the Congress apparently did not see what was going to happen with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as recently as last year, I don’t find the fact that the SEC did not see the next big screw up coming to be all that much of a surprise. They were geared to prevent the crash of 29, not 2008.
But what surprises me is that so many people seem to have not seen this coming. People from the UK, Canada, Europe, Asia..it is not isolated to us.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:51 PM
Huck would be up by 6 or 7 on The One right now if he was our man.
Love him or hate him, at least he would fight. I know some strong, involved, money giving, Obama loving, democrats and the one person they were scared of was Huck.
I’m telling you, I know some of you can’t stand him, but I think he would win big.
Mack man may still pull it off, but Huck would be way ahead right now.
Fair Tax baby, Fair Tax
kara26 on October 11, 2008 at 2:51 PM
So I say, let’s refrain from assuming he does not know what he is doing.
Terrye on October 11, 2008 at 2:42 PM
He’s down 7-10% with three weeks before election day and no traction on any major issues of concern to the American people. He can’t even bring himself to criticize Obama and scolds his supporters who are literally BEGGING him to put forth a serious economic turnaround plan and to show anger and outrage at what’s happened to the market.
McCain is basically submitting and “going through the motions” while Obama skates to a victory. He and Lieberman will have plenty of time to chat with each other at Senate meetings next year…
Meanwhile, Obama has the potential to usher in the biggest expansion of the federal government since FDR.
Outlander on October 11, 2008 at 2:55 PM
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