Connecticut Supreme Court legalizes gay marriage
posted at 2:05 pm on October 10, 2008 by Allahpundit
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A done deal, and given Connecticut’s deep blue electorate, one not likely to be overridden by amendment.
Probably good for McCain, though.
The Supreme Court released its historic ruling at 11:30 a.m. Citing the equal protection clause of the state constitution, the justices ruled that civil unions were discriminatory and that the state’s “understanding of marriage must yield to a more contemporary appreciation of the rights entitled to constitutional protection.”…
In a statement released minutes after the decision was announced, Gov. M. Jodi Rell said she disagreed with it, but uphold it. She said she was proud to sign the state’s civil unions law in 2005, the first in the nation enacted without a court mandate, and thought it was “equitable and just.”
“The Supreme Court has spoken,” Rell said. “I do not believe their voice reflects the majority of the people of Connecticut. However, I am also firmly convinced that attempts to reverse this decision — either legislatively or by amending the state Constitution — will not meet with success. I will therefore abide by the ruling.”…
The opposition will now turn its sights to the November election, when voters will be asked whether the state should convene a constitutional convention. “Connecticut voters will have one opportunity on Nov. 4 to reassert their right to self government. We must vote yes.”
Here’s the opinion. Skip ahead to page 21 for the crux of it, declaring gays a “quasi-suspect class” for purposes of the state’s equal protection jurisprudence. What “class” you are pretty much determines as a rule whether you can be discriminated against by law; if you belong to a class that’s “suspect,” i.e. historically powerless and persecuted, then the legislature has virtually no leeway against you. The Connecticut Supremes decided they couldn’t call gays a fully “suspect” class because the U.S. Supreme Court hasn’t declared them that (yet), so they opted for “quasi-suspect” based on four factors: (1) historic discrimination, (2) whether sexual orientation is related to one’s ability to contribute to society (this is here to give the state extra power to regulate the disabled), (3) immutability of sexual orientation, i.e. is it a choice or is it inborn and thus unchangeable, and (4) whether gays lack political power, which starts on page 28 and is the most interesting section of the four.
All in all, the analysis is similar to the California Supreme Court’s, which also used an equal protection argument to strike down their state’s marriage statute. The fatal blow for gay marriage opponents is the fact that the state already allows civil unions for gay couples; I think laypeople look at that and assume that that means the state, having acted in good faith, will be given the benefit of the doubt when gays inevitably sue for full marriage rights, but as I’ve tried to explain before, it doesn’t work that way. To discriminate by law, you need a good reason. Admitting that gays should be entitled to all the same rights as married couples but not the label of “marriage” itself forces the court to conclude that the distinction is purely semantic, and semantics simply ain’t good enough as a “good reason.” From page 62:
Although we acknowledge that many legislators and many of their constituents hold strong personal convictions with respect to preserving the traditional concept of marriage as a heterosexual institution, such beliefs, no matter how deeply held, do not constitute the exceedingly persuasive justification required to sustain a statute that discriminates on the basis of a quasi-suspect classification. ‘‘That civil marriage has traditionally excluded same-sex couples—i.e., that the ‘historic
and cultural understanding of marriage’ has been between a man and a woman—cannot in itself provide a [sufficient] basis for the challenged exclusion. To say that the discrimination is ‘traditional’ is to say only that the discrimination has existed for a long time. A classification, however, cannot be maintained merely ‘for its own sake’ [Romer v. Evans, supra, 517 U.S. 635]. Instead, the classification ([that is], the exclusion of gay [persons] from civil marriage) must advance a state interest that is separate from the classification itself [see id., 633, 635]. Because the ‘tradition’ of excluding gay [persons] from civil marriage is no different from the classification itself, the exclusion cannot be justified on the basis of ‘history.’ Indeed, the justification of ‘tradition’ does not explain the classification; it merely repeats it. Simply put, a history or tradition of discrimination—no matter how entrenched—does not make the discrimination constitutional . . . .’’ (Citation omitted.) Hernandez v. Robles, supra, 7 N.Y.3d 395 (Kaye, C. J., dissenting)…It is only because the state has not advanced a sufficiently persuasive justification for denying same sex couples the right to marry that the traditional definition of marriage necessarily must be expanded to include such couples. If the defendants were able to demonstrate sufficient cause to deny same sex couples the right to marry, then we would reject the plaintiffs’ claim and honor the state’s desire to preserve the institution of marriage as a union between a man and a woman. In the absence of such a showing, however, we cannot refuse to follow settled equal protection jurisprudence merely because doing so will result in a change in the definition of marriage.
Exit question: Time to start talking about Obama’s judicial appointments?
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Sigh.
Well, I won’t stick around, but in case some of our “true Christians” have misstated the Roman Catholic Church’s position on evolution again, here’s a link to Pope Benedict’s statement on that issue (again):
(For you non-scientists, that last bit alludes to the origins of the universe, a very different subject than evolution.)
Fighting about social issues when we are less than a month away from potentially seeing a confirmed leftist elected (or annointed) as President seems a little strange to me. If the Republicans lose this election, I hope they jettison the vocal minority members of the party who are so fixated on using the party to promote their narrow religious views. Take care of your personal lives at home and church, for Pete’s sake. As a conservative and a Republican, I’m far more impressed with the posts that I’ve seen at GayPatriot than some of the hate-filled “Christian” posts here.
But I’m a Catholic so I’m going to hell anyway… with my friends the Mormons.
Y-not on October 10, 2008 at 7:20 PM
Do you know how to piss of a “gay” person?
………….. call them a “Homosexual”!
Seven Percent Solution on October 10, 2008 at 7:21 PM
After our conversation today, I’m not sure you need to ask.
Esthier on October 10, 2008 at 7:22 PM
There’s no need for insults. I’m not claiming to be God’s envoy. The fact is the DCGamer will not acknowledge the loss of religious exemption for churches in Canada, Sweden etc. I don’t find his statement convincing. I can’t prove that he is lying but I don’t trust his judgment on this issue.
aengus on October 10, 2008 at 7:22 PM
don’t worry, I won’t be voting for mccain. good luck winning without us.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 7:22 PM
The jackanape judges are always runnin’ round in some disguise
What they will accomplish with their tortured logic, the devil only knows
It’s unfortunate to note the curiosity of it all just grows and grows
Tav on October 10, 2008 at 7:23 PM
A big +1
JetBoy on October 10, 2008 at 7:23 PM
and you know it really matters little what the pope thinks about evolution. what he thinks is not taught as evolution in the schools. as I said before theistic evolution is NOT evolution.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 7:24 PM
Good luck winning without us.
I’m the first to acknowledge how much McCain sucks, and I’ve complained about him relentlessly. Since he gave us the gift of Palin though, I’ve softened to him. Plus, letting Obama win is a losing situation.
Esthier on October 10, 2008 at 7:25 PM
you know mccain could have won the election simply by voting against the bailout and running against it, and obama.
but he couldn’t do that, though it was laden with pork, nor can really pin the blame on this economic mess on the democrats…I was going to vote for him when he picked palin, I thought he might start to fight, but he’s useless.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 7:26 PM
Ditto. Oust the PC-worshiping RINOS who wouldn’t know fiscal or social conservatism if it slapped them over the head with a bound volume of a book that, were they to read it instead of scoff at it, give them true happiness, understanding, and peace.
I’m tired of the RINOS that go to the church of liberalism. We don’t need them, they dilute the moral character of our country, and quite frankly they can take their friend David Brooks back to the Autocratic Party of Barack Obama.
BKennedy on October 10, 2008 at 7:29 PM
Unfortunately, his loss is quite likely to sink Palin’s future. Not because she is not capable, but because outside of the public eye she might not be able to recover from the massive hatchet job the MSM and the left has done on her.
neuquenguy on October 10, 2008 at 7:30 PM
I just noticed the thread where mccain is not going to attack obama over his association with wright…
as I said, he’s useless…mccain wants to lose this election in the name of bipartisanship…
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 7:31 PM
…let’s take churches out of it for a second…and go to another area where homosexual involvement has been an issue: the Boy Scouts.
Ever since the Supreme Court issue backing Scout rules excluding gays from positions as scoutmasters, many homosexual groups have put pressure on municipalities, have raised civil suits, and have demonized the Scouts to the point that several United Way branches have given the Scouts the kiss-off. Many properties used for generations have been closed to them.
…and, in one instance, Scouts leading delegates in the Pledge of Allegiance at the 2000 Democratic National Convention, I believe it was, were boo’ed on stage — and on national TV.
There was never any effort that I’m aware of to form another boys or boys and girls adventuring organization. The first thought was, as with Dr. Laura, to destroy the opposition.
In addition, in California, there’ve been some troubling homosexual lobby-led efforts culturally, from the reluctance to now refer to the married couple as “bride and groom” to changing the way parents are portrayed in schools.
Don’t tell me that’s this is an isolated effort aimed at social justice. By their efforts, many in the homosexual lobby appear to understand justice less than they understand decency.
This by no means refers to all or even the overwhelming majority of homosexuals. Most are like heterosexuals: just trying to get by. They’re as good neighbors and as good friends as anyone else…although the leather guys do frighten the children.
Still, the same argument can be made about the various minority rights groups, some of whose number fall off the edge of reality and into a great abyss of grievance.
Homosexual marriage is and has never been a civil rights issue. It’s a power issue. Plain and simple.
Puritan1648 on October 10, 2008 at 7:32 PM
I don’t know, she may be better off without him…
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 7:32 PM
In New Jersey, you can marry a toster
Kini on October 10, 2008 at 7:37 PM
Hey Esthier, How’re you doing? Still tilting at windmills I see :-) I didn’t read the entire thread, over 700 posts, but it looked feisty. If only RedPill and Apocalyps had been posting I’m sure your evening would be complete. :-)
Oldnuke on October 10, 2008 at 7:37 PM
I can’t stand brooks…he used to work for the NR right? shows how far they’ve fallen without Buckley..
he used to have burnham and Chambers…real conservatives…
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 7:40 PM
Oh, it’s the ol’ “RINO” bit again…And figures you get in a tizzy over Brooks’ article. How DARE he criticize you self-described “true conservatives”…Silence him immediately!
You haven’t quite figured out that you and your ilk don’t espouse true conservative values. Guys like you cost Republicans more elections…but you just don’t see it.
JetBoy on October 10, 2008 at 7:42 PM
oh and you do!! you are good for a few laughs…
your type of ‘republicans’ are the ‘go along to get along’ country clubbers…yeah they’re real ‘conservative’ *smirk*
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 7:43 PM
I really don’t understand this thread, or all the news coverage.
CT already had the same law on the books as “Civil Unions,” voted in by the legislature and signed into law by the Republican Governor.
It was a truly unique scenario: the only state to grant same-sex partnership rights on a State level without the courts.
Now the courts have gone and sent everyone into a tizzy by using the “M” word.
This doesn’t change anything regarding policy in CT. So I really don’t get all the sabre-rattling.
lansing quaker on October 10, 2008 at 7:46 PM
Respectfully, I believe that this ruling is in truth a ruling against religion and has little to do with gayness or civil rights. Already there have been court cases lost when people have refused to perform gay marriages.
There were no new rights given to anyone with this ruling. All the rights, privledges and legallities had already been given to same sex couples. This court ruling was only about the term “marriage” and the social sigma of gayness.
Since it is impossible to remove the sigma while at the same time allowing religions to teach that it is sin. That interferes with the freedom of religion. The court is compelling religious people to believe in a certain way or to be sigmatized themselves.
To ignore the court cases that have been brought and also the direction of state control over thought especially moral thought in recent years is simply to ignore reality.
Churches and church teachings are indeed at risk in this ruling. As well as the undermining of the traditional family as a preferred way to raise children.
Catholics had to give up placing adoptive children in homes because the state of Mass. insisted it was immoral to distinquish between gay and straight homes. The state has decided to tell Catholics what to believe. Catholics must curtail their religion because of state mandate.
petunia on October 10, 2008 at 7:50 PM
Brooks was hired by Buckley and the two worked closely together, with Buckley shaping Brooks’ writing.
dedalus on October 10, 2008 at 7:53 PM
My sister inlaw can merry her gril friend and my bother inlaw can merry his boy friend thats wonderful.Ha Ha ha
Denniscat on October 10, 2008 at 7:59 PM
thats very depressing…either buckley was fooled or was getting senile in his old age..
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 8:00 PM
Sigh.
The people simply have no say anymore. This is tyranny. This election cycle has worn me out. I’m weary of the contest. The entire appeal of BHO is irrational and destructive. Maybe every generation needs a Carter.
Mojave Mark on October 10, 2008 at 8:03 PM
What are you accusing me of, aengus? Loss of religious exemption? I live in the United States. I have no idea about loss of religious exemption in other countries. If it is true, then I feel sorry for them. However, look at the declining religious attendance rates in Europe. If true, it doesn’t seem all that surprising. After all, who is left to fight against government intrusion on the church?
DCGamer on October 10, 2008 at 8:03 PM
Lack of homosexuality being given as a reason, does not negate the fact that homosexuality was the cause of the destruction. Everyone knows gravity pulls down something that falls, you don’t need to say, “The apple fell to the floor because of gravity pulling it down.” Just saying the Apple fell to the floor is enough. Everyone in Scripture knows why Sodom was destroyed, that is why the exact reason it was destroyed isn’t mentioned with it. To claim in Jesus’ time that they thought it was overt sexuality is foolish, because Romans thought the Jews were strange for being appalled at anal sex.
The mentions of Sodom in the Bible for the most part is used as a location.
Usually it is equated that Sodom is used in reference to temple prostitutes, but you are being dishonest about something. Virtually all of the temple rituals were anal sex acts, MM and MF.
Tim Burton on October 10, 2008 at 8:03 PM
Bud, we can’t win with you. So you know what they say about the door, right?
paul006 on October 10, 2008 at 8:08 PM
Rock on.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 8:08 PM
This is why we need conservative judges. Judicial Activism needs to be stopped. Sadly, it looks like it will only get worse for the good side…
OriginalPechangas_son on October 10, 2008 at 8:12 PM
With all due respect, 48 mentions of Sodom in the Bible, and again, not once is homosexuality mentioned as the cause of destruction.
That’s simply your erroneous interpretation, nothing more.
JetBoy on October 10, 2008 at 8:14 PM
are you ignorant, or just an idiot? I mean seriously how do you think reagan and bush (1 & 2) won? hmmmm??
and then the repubs go lib…look what happens…2006….duhhhhhhh
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 8:15 PM
I thought the cause of destruction was bad hair and lousy fashion sense…..something the gays could have prevented.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 8:15 PM
yeah Satan twists the bible too..you’re in good company.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 8:16 PM
We need to extricate ourselves from the ‘religious right’ – our home-grown fascistic taliban-esque thugs.
Only then will we be able to make inroads dismantling neo-liberalism.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 8:17 PM
liberals dismantlimg liberalism…good luck with that.
you’re the fascists, you nazi piece of trash.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 8:18 PM
You win in every category of dumb.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 8:23 PM
Jetboy, etal.,
In case you don’t limit your reading to the Old Testament:
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
AubieJon on October 10, 2008 at 8:23 PM
You do realize that this does not sound very Christian, don’t you?
DCGamer on October 10, 2008 at 8:24 PM
thats the best you can do? laughable. looks like you need to evolve some wits…
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 8:24 PM
….or the bible could just be a load of drug-addled bollocks….?
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 8:24 PM
zzzzzzzzzzz
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 8:25 PM
you’re right, I should have just said:
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 8:25 PM
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 8:25 PM
To which I would have replied that even the devil can quote scripture. My point is that this thread is not about Christianity. It is about civil marriage. You keep bringing religion into a topic that is not about religion.
DCGamer on October 10, 2008 at 8:27 PM
Or you could just be eternally wrong.
AubieJon on October 10, 2008 at 8:27 PM
Of course not…..it reveals what I have understood about many so-called ‘christians’ like right4life – they’re nasty thuggish frauds, using christianity as a vehicle for their particular brand of fascism.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 8:27 PM
Insincerity.
It could never happen in the US right?
aengus on October 10, 2008 at 8:28 PM
Indeed.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 8:28 PM
I concur that this court decision could affect religion if someone now sued a church to try to force it to marry two gay people. If such a thing happened, then you and I would (surprisingly) find ourselves on the same side of the issue.
DCGamer on October 10, 2008 at 8:29 PM
Most men don’t make an effort to be attracted to women in the way that they learn a sport. Sexual attraction to women is something that happens to adolescent males at a time when they should be studying algebra but find themselves distracted in all manner by the young girl at the desk next to them. At least that’s my recollection.
My gay friends describe a similar awareness at the time of early puberty. Did they “learn” their attraction to the same sex through images and other sensations? Did they get a different set of stimuli than straight guys? Were their moms cold? Were their Dads effeminate? I don’t know. I do think it doesn’t matter since as children they didn’t make a decision to develop the same-sex attraction.
dedalus on October 10, 2008 at 8:29 PM
oh please, I’ve already proven this is much more than just ‘civil marriage’
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 8:29 PM
oh yes this from someone who want to impose a gay sharia upon christians, taking their rights, and freedom away.
you prove what a fascist you are with every post. and the results of your beliefs are clear, and ugly.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 8:31 PM
As would I.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 8:31 PM
You live in a very strange, and very small, world
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 8:32 PM
Under the right (or should I say wrong) conditions, I suppose that it could happen here. With church attendence being what it is in this country, I doubt the government would be able to force through such a thing, though.
And for the record, I would very much oppose such an effort by the government under the conditions that we are discussing.
DCGamer on October 10, 2008 at 8:32 PM
*smirk* BWAHHHAHHAHAH sure you would…I’ve already posted plenty of examples, but none of you ‘free thinkers’ are concerned about that…
such hypocrisy laughable.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 8:33 PM
I assume you also follow all of the Levitical Code as well, because I wouldn’t want to falsely accuse you of cherry-picking bible verses…
JetBoy on October 10, 2008 at 8:33 PM
oh yes, you are so enlightened, and noble!! such a legend in your own mind…
you have no idea. or clue.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 8:33 PM
That this thread is “not about religion” for you is stretching it.
At least three quarters of this thread has been focused on religious discussion up to this point. To say at such a late stage that you do not believe this thread is about Christianity or religion is to say that you do not believe Christians should have any say in this matter.
aengus on October 10, 2008 at 8:34 PM
Lucky for you I don’t begrudge aiding those less able to grasp reality.
You & I are leagues apart, and I am tired of this thread now.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 8:35 PM
and to prove what a fascist you are jetboy, you cannot win the battle of ideas, or get gay marriage through the legislature or the ballot. oh no you have to rely upon unelected judges IMPOSING gay marriage upon us…just as they did abortion.
you’re anti-democratic, pro-fascist.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 8:36 PM
I don’t blame you, one can only take being made a fool out of for so long…
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 8:37 PM
You’ve proven nothing here save your own intolerance. This decision doesn’t even affect the whole country. It affects civil marriage in Connecticut. That’s it. Some lawyer may try to use this precedent to argue a different case, but that is another story. When such a future case arises, we can debate the merits of the case and the decision.
Stop trying to use a “chicken little” argument regarding Christianity in this country. Unlike Europeans, Americans are for the most part a people of faith. Religious belief in this country is strong. Yes, there are some that attack it, but they are a small minority. Who cares about Hollywood values? Most Americans realize that such values are far left.
DCGamer on October 10, 2008 at 8:38 PM
same old buzz word BS…hateful, intolerant…when it is YOU who are the intolerant one, the hateful one…trying to impose your agenda upon us in an undemocratic method…trying to silence the opposition by calling names…like the liberal wacko you are.
you cannot dispute what is happening in this country, and you are proven to be a liar…you said you would oppose gay marriage if it was infringing upon freedom of religion…I have proven it is…and yet you say nothing…except try to ‘clarify’ what you meant.
pathetic, but predictable.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 8:42 PM
If 3/4 of this thread is about religion, it is because you hijacked the thread and took it there. Do you think that when the attorneys were arguing against SSM in the CT supreme court, that they opened their Bibles as evidence in their case? The Bible plays absolutely no role in discussing CIVIL marriage laws.
As I stated 300+ comments ago or so, “marriage” is too loaded a term. We should stop using the word “marriage” for all civil “marriages.” The state should only grant “civil union” licenses to everybody. Then churches can marry or refuse to marry whomever they wish.
Once again, it is you who cannot inserting religion where it doesn’t belong.
DCGamer on October 10, 2008 at 8:45 PM
Kind words from an executioner.
aengus on October 10, 2008 at 8:45 PM
I remember when Hot Air was getting between 12 and 30 comments per post when I joined. Not bad. :)
Coronagold on October 10, 2008 at 8:46 PM
right4life, you must really be one lonely, bitter tool. Jesus loves you tho, even if no one else does.
I hope someday you find peace with yourself. At this point, you’re best ignored. You add nothing but selfish hate to this conversation. Loud, stupid, and often.
God bless ya.
JetBoy on October 10, 2008 at 8:48 PM
what ‘god’ do you serve?
all you can do is call me names, you’re such a liberal tool.
sounds like a case of projection…
I feel sorry for you…caught up in a lie that is so destructive to your soul, and spirit.
I will be praying the Lord delivers you from the curse of homosexuality…
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 8:50 PM
I said absolutely no such thing. Nor have you proven that it does infringe on freedom of religion. There is no way that you can prove that because CIVIL marriage has nothing to do with RELIGIOUS marriage.
What I said was that I would oppose any effort by the state to force churches to violate their beliefs.
May I ask how old you are? Your “arguments” are so poorly reasoned, and your name calling makes me think that you are a teenager; an educated teenager, but a teenager nonetheless.
I will remind you once again that I am not calling Christians intolerant, I am calling you intolerant. You might consider yourself a Christian, but that is not really coming across here. You seem more like a Fred Phelps fanatic than anything else.
DCGamer on October 10, 2008 at 8:50 PM
destructive to your body, soul, and spirit….
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 8:50 PM
Religion and marriage are inseparable. Both existed long before teams of lawyers decided they were arbiters of social existence.
aengus on October 10, 2008 at 8:50 PM
Aengus,
Sorry about the quote. You’re post fit what I was thinking, and so I quoted it, but meant my comments for a wider audience. I have read some of you’re subsequent posts, and I realize that I took that post out of context, so I offer my apology.
DFCtomm on October 10, 2008 at 8:56 PM
I attend Church every Sunday, aengus, and I pray and read the Bible daily, yet I do not see in you a Christian brother. I would have to guess that you are a Pentacostal or one of the other fundamentalist sects. I am trying hard not to judge you or right4life. We will all have to answer to our Creator at some point.
I have hesitated to talk about my own faith because it is irrelevant to this thread. This conversation should not be about religion.
DCGamer on October 10, 2008 at 8:58 PM
yadayadayada….same old liberal BS, get some new lines loser.
thats what they’re doing…duhhhhh
you’ve already proven what a liar you are. I’m not going to waste time reposting what you said.
what does it say about you when you are unable to refute my arguments, and have to resort to the same old liberal playbook of ‘intolerant’ ‘hateful’ ‘phelps’ oooohhh I’m the boogeyman…
you’re a caricature. typical lib.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 8:59 PM
uh you JUST DID!! amazing. I mean do you actually read what you post, or do you just write talking points??
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 9:00 PM
Thank you. No harm done.
aengus on October 10, 2008 at 9:02 PM
you say you’re a christian, but the bible is clear about what marriage is, and what a sin homosexuality is…yet you defy the bible on both these points…
do you have your own bible? one that you just make up as you go along?
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 9:02 PM
You’re right. I can’t dispute a secret national movement to wipe out 90% of the country’s population based on sexual orientation.
And you can’t dispute the secret Templar Movement that is trying to consolidate power in the United States by turning the Catholic churches into bases for their assassins.
And you can’t dispute the secret Scientizt Movement that is working to overthrow democracy and construct a new order where scientists are the rulers of a new fascist nation.
And you know why you can’t dispute those? Because they’re fairy stories made up protected by the guise of “it’s all a big plan but it’s secret and if you can’t see it happening you’re blind.”
In other words, it’s bullshit. Just like your insane vision. It’s up there with the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, you goddamned lunatic.
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 9:03 PM
Wrong! Civil marriage is a contract between two people that recognizes a slew of rights and responsibilities from tax issues to inheretence issues etc. Religious marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman (for most Christian Churches….can’t speak for the other faiths).
Period. End of story.
Even agnostics can marry. They in no way recognize the religious aspect.
Once again, since they are two different creatures, let’s call them two different things. Then “marriage” can truly be inseparable from religion.
DCGamer on October 10, 2008 at 9:04 PM
I’m not even going to waste time reading that drivel…do you realize what a fool you are?
let me know when you have something to back up ANYTHING you say…
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 9:05 PM
That’s fine. Saying you don’t believe him is one thing, because it’s based on opinion, which is fine. Calling him a liar, which is predicated upon you knowing the opposite to be true(which you don’t), is entirely different.
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 9:05 PM
Who’s afraid of the truth now, you little coward?
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 9:06 PM
you, a proven liar, complaining about something else…laughable…
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 9:07 PM
Oh, so you like a bit of that sort of play, do you?
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 9:08 PM
You are trying so hard to goad me, but I refuse to sink to your level. Nor will I suffer the fool who is uttering these words. I will do my best to pray for you tonight (it will teach me humility if nothing else). Other than that, I will now ignore you from now on. Your foul words are beneath my dignity to respond.
DCGamer on October 10, 2008 at 9:09 PM
The only proven thing in this thread is that you and SaintOlaf have been dropping too much acid and listening to the Alex Jones show and have conjured up yet another conspiracy theory for nuts like you to put forth, claim is secret, and then mind-bogglingly tell people to prove a secret organization and grand plan don’t exist.
Prove to me that the Knights Templar aren’t planning a takeover of the American government.
There. I’m using the same fallacious logic you are.
Now go back to your mother and tell her she needs a very late-term abortion.
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 9:11 PM
I’m sorry. I should not have gone off on you like that. It was a nasty thing to say. I would like you to see me as a Christian brother.
I do get nervous when these issues come up because its clear what has already happened in Canada and realistically it could happen elsewhere.
Obviously I do not share this perspective. I think the separation/gulf between religious and state institutions has been far over-exaggerated. But I can respect this opinion.
I think Christians are in danger if the secularist agenda is given too much leverage.
aengus on October 10, 2008 at 9:12 PM
Thank you, aengus. As I said earlier, respectful people can disagree respectfully. I was unaware of what is happening in Canada. I can understand how it would be troubling to you. You and I would agree on this. I guess I am less nervous than you because I cannot really see that happening in this country.
DCGamer on October 10, 2008 at 9:17 PM
I may have overreacted on this one point but I don’t think that makes me a cretin, like you stated. You’ve thrown a lot of insults about yourself.
aengus on October 10, 2008 at 9:19 PM
Well, I think you weren’t talking about Reagan or Bush. You were talking about John McCain. And he isn’t going to win whether you vote for him or not. So don’t try to buffalo people by threatening to withhold what you can’t deliver.
I put it to you again: You know what they say about the door, right?
paul006 on October 10, 2008 at 9:19 PM
The first two, especially the elder Bush, by tossing crumbs to the Religious Right while mouthing pious platitudes, but ndoing very much to advance their, dare I say it?, rabid AGENDA! It was the younger Bush that embraced enough of it which, combined with years of batshittery from your ranks, that has brought this all to a boil.
Which would have happened in 2002, followed by Bush Jr. losing in 2004, if it hadn’t of been for 9/11 (not to mention a real dork of a pick like Kerry).
Face it, you guys hold some cards to be sure but the majority just doesn’t like you nor will they vote for you if given half a chance. Yeah, you’ll get some crumbs tossed your way and even win some seats in more pliant districts, but for the majority you guys are held with the same disdain as the fascist liberals like Pelosi are.
JohnAGJ on October 10, 2008 at 9:28 PM
Our society’s view of this issue is upside down. Gays have not been restricted from marrying. They have been restricted from calling a type of relationship that is not a marriage, “marriage.”
Marriage teaches us something profound about God’s relationship to humans, and by necessity joins two complementary and fundamentally diiferent souls. Even our physiology confirms that we were created to relate as different sexes. (It’s astounding how far we have strayed from common sense in this matter.)
I am not saying that this means that human impulses automatically fall in line with the divine purpose of sex and marriage. As a heterosexual, monogamous, married woman, I must still exert effort to bring my sexuality under the Lordship of Christ, just as any person in any other situation would need to do if they decided to glorify God in their sexual expression.
Calling a same-sex relationship a “marriage” is delusional. What needs to be determined is whether it is beneficial to anyone or society as a whole to play along with the delusion.
SheofTwoMinds on October 10, 2008 at 9:35 PM
I don’t believe I have any worries about breaking Levitical law. Do you have any particular laws in mind? But no, I don’t cherry pick. Are you into rimming, fisting, or any of the other destructive homosexual practices, or do you “cherry pick”?
AubieJon on October 10, 2008 at 9:41 PM
You’re late.
DFCtomm on October 10, 2008 at 9:45 PM
Does society get a veto over marriages that don’t benefit it? Can society set standards so that marriage only applies to couples who can reproduce for the benefit of society? Perhaps society could arrange the marriages since people, especially young people, can do a poor job of picking the right spouse.
Most straight people pick their spouse because they love them and want to have a family, not because the state asks them for a contribution.
Government should be limited. We don’t exist and marry for the benefit of the state. The state exists so that our families can live freely.
dedalus on October 10, 2008 at 9:47 PM
Ahh, yes. Another member of the brain trust.
JetBoy on October 10, 2008 at 9:48 PM
…um, the two you listed are practiced by heterosexuals as often as homosexuals.
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 9:49 PM
Well?
AubieJon on October 10, 2008 at 9:49 PM
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