Connecticut Supreme Court legalizes gay marriage
posted at 2:05 pm on October 10, 2008 by Allahpundit
A done deal, and given Connecticut’s deep blue electorate, one not likely to be overridden by amendment.
Probably good for McCain, though.
The Supreme Court released its historic ruling at 11:30 a.m. Citing the equal protection clause of the state constitution, the justices ruled that civil unions were discriminatory and that the state’s “understanding of marriage must yield to a more contemporary appreciation of the rights entitled to constitutional protection.”…
In a statement released minutes after the decision was announced, Gov. M. Jodi Rell said she disagreed with it, but uphold it. She said she was proud to sign the state’s civil unions law in 2005, the first in the nation enacted without a court mandate, and thought it was “equitable and just.”
“The Supreme Court has spoken,” Rell said. “I do not believe their voice reflects the majority of the people of Connecticut. However, I am also firmly convinced that attempts to reverse this decision — either legislatively or by amending the state Constitution — will not meet with success. I will therefore abide by the ruling.”…
The opposition will now turn its sights to the November election, when voters will be asked whether the state should convene a constitutional convention. “Connecticut voters will have one opportunity on Nov. 4 to reassert their right to self government. We must vote yes.”
Here’s the opinion. Skip ahead to page 21 for the crux of it, declaring gays a “quasi-suspect class” for purposes of the state’s equal protection jurisprudence. What “class” you are pretty much determines as a rule whether you can be discriminated against by law; if you belong to a class that’s “suspect,” i.e. historically powerless and persecuted, then the legislature has virtually no leeway against you. The Connecticut Supremes decided they couldn’t call gays a fully “suspect” class because the U.S. Supreme Court hasn’t declared them that (yet), so they opted for “quasi-suspect” based on four factors: (1) historic discrimination, (2) whether sexual orientation is related to one’s ability to contribute to society (this is here to give the state extra power to regulate the disabled), (3) immutability of sexual orientation, i.e. is it a choice or is it inborn and thus unchangeable, and (4) whether gays lack political power, which starts on page 28 and is the most interesting section of the four.
All in all, the analysis is similar to the California Supreme Court’s, which also used an equal protection argument to strike down their state’s marriage statute. The fatal blow for gay marriage opponents is the fact that the state already allows civil unions for gay couples; I think laypeople look at that and assume that that means the state, having acted in good faith, will be given the benefit of the doubt when gays inevitably sue for full marriage rights, but as I’ve tried to explain before, it doesn’t work that way. To discriminate by law, you need a good reason. Admitting that gays should be entitled to all the same rights as married couples but not the label of “marriage” itself forces the court to conclude that the distinction is purely semantic, and semantics simply ain’t good enough as a “good reason.” From page 62:
Although we acknowledge that many legislators and many of their constituents hold strong personal convictions with respect to preserving the traditional concept of marriage as a heterosexual institution, such beliefs, no matter how deeply held, do not constitute the exceedingly persuasive justification required to sustain a statute that discriminates on the basis of a quasi-suspect classification. ‘‘That civil marriage has traditionally excluded same-sex couples—i.e., that the ‘historic
and cultural understanding of marriage’ has been between a man and a woman—cannot in itself provide a [sufficient] basis for the challenged exclusion. To say that the discrimination is ‘traditional’ is to say only that the discrimination has existed for a long time. A classification, however, cannot be maintained merely ‘for its own sake’ [Romer v. Evans, supra, 517 U.S. 635]. Instead, the classification ([that is], the exclusion of gay [persons] from civil marriage) must advance a state interest that is separate from the classification itself [see id., 633, 635]. Because the ‘tradition’ of excluding gay [persons] from civil marriage is no different from the classification itself, the exclusion cannot be justified on the basis of ‘history.’ Indeed, the justification of ‘tradition’ does not explain the classification; it merely repeats it. Simply put, a history or tradition of discrimination—no matter how entrenched—does not make the discrimination constitutional . . . .’’ (Citation omitted.) Hernandez v. Robles, supra, 7 N.Y.3d 395 (Kaye, C. J., dissenting)…It is only because the state has not advanced a sufficiently persuasive justification for denying same sex couples the right to marry that the traditional definition of marriage necessarily must be expanded to include such couples. If the defendants were able to demonstrate sufficient cause to deny same sex couples the right to marry, then we would reject the plaintiffs’ claim and honor the state’s desire to preserve the institution of marriage as a union between a man and a woman. In the absence of such a showing, however, we cannot refuse to follow settled equal protection jurisprudence merely because doing so will result in a change in the definition of marriage.
Exit question: Time to start talking about Obama’s judicial appointments?










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The Constitution is not a suicide pact.
pseudonominus on October 10, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Not surprised you would fathom that as reality. You’re agreeing with the guy over there bringing up sex with animals.
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Dude.
Fair enough. Although the question isn’t whether or not they were male but rather if they appeared male, and the context of the story seems to point directly towards them looking like men. After all, Lot’s response to them is:
“let me, I pray you, bring [my two virgin daughters] out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.”
Presumably his two daughters were also under the shadow of his roof, yet Lot still believes somehow that his daughters being raped is preferable to the two guests being raped. It could just be that he feels that way because his guests are angels and that raping angels is wrong, or it could be their supposed gender.
Maybe it’s both, but overall, refusing the two daughters as opposed to the two guests also seems to indicate that something is substantially different about them.
Esthier on October 10, 2008 at 4:16 PM
Canceling my tickets now…next time say it’s a joke.
right2bright on October 10, 2008 at 4:16 PM
Sodomy is the sin. Homosexuality is a very recent development – a public identity of someone who only desires to be with their own sex.
Now if someone felt this way but did not act on it they would not be sinning. Yet homosexual marriage is wrong because that marriage could not/should not be consummated therefore it should not take place at all.
aengus on October 10, 2008 at 4:16 PM
Well … at least it was the State judiciary :)
progressoverpeace on October 10, 2008 at 4:17 PM
So, if someone’s views are “wrong” and need to be “refined”, they must be adjusted in a Leftist direction?
pseudonominus on October 10, 2008 at 4:17 PM
Lot’s two daughters get worried after the destruction that they will never have children since the men are all killed. They get Lot drunk and takes turns with him, and get pregnant. Biblical literary twists help to show that actions like teaching your daughters to get raped eventually come back to do a number on the whole family. Very much like what is happening in this country as a result of progressive thought looking back at these experiences as being out of date and isolated instead of a sad fact of human nature as relevant today as thousands of years ago..
Hening on October 10, 2008 at 4:18 PM
OH HOLY TOASTYCAKES YOU BOUGHT TICKETS TO THAILAND TO BUMP UGLIES WITH SHE-HES!!!!
Sorry, I was in right4life mode there for a second where sarcasm doesn’t exist.
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 4:18 PM
It was right because it respected precedent and followed the law.
That’s a problem for Christianity. I always wonder why Christians are so obsessed with homosexuality (e.g., the longest article on Conservapedia is the entry for homosexuality). It’s hardly the only sin proscribed in the bible. I think it’s because, at some level, Christians know how unjust it is to suppose that God made some people to be sinners. The issue undermines the moral authority of the entire bible. If Christianity is going to survive the next 100 years, there’s going to have to be some kind of modern synthesis that can admit modern facts.
RightOFLeft on October 10, 2008 at 4:19 PM
The Bible often refers to angels as men.
Genesis 18:2, “And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door…”
Two of these were the ones who went into Sodom.
Akzed on October 10, 2008 at 4:20 PM
Why should we bother voting if our overlords in the supreme court will amend all of our decisions anyway?
Let’s “vote” by surrounding Washington D.C. and demanding the resignation of EVERY single politician in D.C.!
SaintOlaf on October 10, 2008 at 4:20 PM
Does that include married heterosexual couples coming in for a rear landing?
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 4:20 PM
you’re too stupid for sarcasm.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:20 PM
…I’m surprised that they’d use such a “baby out with the bathwater” line of reasoning.
…after all, we discriminate against women making a living on the backs every day…and against thieves…against fraudulent voter registrars who really want their guy to win….
…laws are about limits, and limits means that some folks don’t get a pony for Christmas….
…as far as tradition, the profession of the law is built on a foundation of respecting tradition. What is precedent if not tradition tarted up in expensive legal trappings?
What folks are saying here is “reorder society so’s we can get what we want”. That’s not justice. That’s stretching a societal norm all out of shape to accomodate a rather noisy interest group.
If you, or the court, think that all discrimination is wrong, don’t lock your car…or your house…or password your online transactions…thieves gotta eat, too….
Puritan1648 on October 10, 2008 at 4:21 PM
keep dreaming. what ‘modern fact’ are you referring to? that laughable lie of evolution? please.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:21 PM
Saw that on a truck with “You can’t hug a child with nuclear arms”, and “Bushitler”, and several others.
Do you own a truck?
right2bright on October 10, 2008 at 4:22 PM
Yes that silly God, he’s gotta get with the times. Doesn’t he know that he’s soooo out of touch with the twenty first century?
Tacitus on October 10, 2008 at 4:22 PM
Nor is it a fragrant jockstrap, or an attractively marbled slice of sage derby.
Your implicit belief that following the supreme law of our land in this instance is equivalent to following a suicide pact is irrelevant. It has no constitutional weight whatsoever.
If you truly think that your god will get angry and rain trout on us then saddle up and secede. You will not succeed in passing fascistic law that violates the constitution.
Reserve your dribbling apocalyptic fantasies for the happy-clapper echo chamber.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 4:22 PM
Yup, I’m the stupid one.
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 4:23 PM
I don’t know if Christians are obssessed with it, but there’s no other class of sinner that has parades for its advocates, unless I’m mistaken.
I’ve always considered myself a theif, for as long as I can remember. I want to steal things all the time, and it causes me great frustration when I supress my desires for too long. God made me that way, so it’s wrong to try to convince me that there’s something wrong with me. Right? Right?
Akzed on October 10, 2008 at 4:23 PM
and of course to you the constitution is whatever a judge says it is…as long as it goes your way.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Make sure she hasn’t eaten corn for a few days.
So I’m told.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 4:24 PM
first honest thing you’ve said!! I’m sorry you’re in such pain, such stupidity has to hurt!!
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Yes, it basically covers anything but “straight” missionary sex. Which is why I posted what I did for Jetboy, many of the “Christians” have committed sodomy, and hence have committed a sin every bit as worse as homosexuality (biblicaly).
right2bright on October 10, 2008 at 4:24 PM
I am a very strong believer in evolution. But, anyone who understands evolution has a much greater respect for tradition, understanding the long processes that shaped many of our rules and processes. Only someone who thinks himself above evolution, and smarter than evolutionary processes, has the temerity to decide on a whim that major parts of our culture need to be changed for something that has never been seen before.
progressoverpeace on October 10, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Its because they see people who are so proud and defiant in their sin that they have created an identity around it. They don’t believe that those who identify themselves as gays were created as such, and are living against their true nature.
Being an atheist myself, my reasoning are different.
Count to 10 on October 10, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Very nice. I like that one.
Count to 10 on October 10, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Iced Tea all over my laptop. You are trouble, Madison.
HornetSting on October 10, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Pretty much. Weird how they avoid that little nuance.
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Supposedly. And I’m actually fine with that one.
Check kiting?
Fornication is just sex outside of marriage, not homosexual sex.
You’re not arguing with me. You’re arguing with those who don’t believe in much else aside from what Jesus taught. I’m not one of those. I just understand that position and don’t judge it as wrong. After all, political played a part in the creation of the New Testament. It’s not crazy to distrust some of it.
If we assume that as a given, then everything he wrote is from God. Only, not everyone accepts that as a given.
Because you’re not really a prophet, at least you wouldn’t be if you substituted your opinion for God’s.
Which again, is not my argument, just one I understand.
That’s certainly true. It points to the practice men have had in interpreting religious truth to suit their own purposes, thus misleading people with promises of salvation that actually have nothing to do with God. Furthermore, it speaks to the cynicism those actions have wrought in many religious people today.
Esthier on October 10, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Count to 10 on October 10, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Thanks, Count. Liberals have always chapped my azz for screaming about having to teach evolution in school, and nothing else, while never seeing an evolutionary pressure they didn’t think they knew better than.
progressoverpeace on October 10, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Legal reasoning of decision:
Serial sexual relations that produce nothing (sodomites) are the equivalent of serial sexual relationships that produce increases in tax revenues (heterosexuals) because the two are equal based on scientifically improvable parameters and vagueries surrounding identity.
No one here is gay. Some engage in serial sexual relations with people of the same gender. The rest of us don’t. It is merely a preference, and those preferences have drastically different effects. One effect is clearly superior to the other on every way that could possibly matter to the state. It therefore should have preferred status.
BKennedy on October 10, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Failing to legalize homosexual marriage — that is denying the right of some people to marry the partner of their choice – is by definition tyranny of the majority. The next step is to make the determination whether denying this small group of people the right to marry helps the common good and is thus worth withholding marriage rights. You argue that to allow gays to marry would overturn a basic building block of society.
How? Would straight people stop marrying? Would straight people stop having sex/children? If you want to point fingers at what is a bigger threat to the institution of marriage, how about divorce? With a divorce rate around 50%, straight people are threatening the basic building block of society more than gay people ever could.
DCGamer on October 10, 2008 at 4:29 PM
why does anyone have to believe in evolution? do you believe in gravity?
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:30 PM
I’m not married but I think its detrimental to society.
aengus on October 10, 2008 at 4:30 PM
Not at all. In fact, I think that there is no authorization for any judge on any court to ‘interpret’ the constitution and strike down laws. Not even SCOTUS. The judicial branch does not have veto power over the legislative.
That said, I still have to agree with the CT SC’s reasoning on this one.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 4:31 PM
Jesus certainly had a lot to say about Christian who would use insults against others.
What? Since when is sodomy considered doing it “doggy style”? Where in the Bible does it tell you what position to use when engaging in vaginal sex?
Esthier on October 10, 2008 at 4:31 PM
you could say the same about denying a pedophile his pleasures…
yes they would….see Howard Kurtz’s studies on gay marriage in europe…
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:31 PM
…I’m surprised that they’d use such a “baby out with the bathwater” line of reasoning.
…after all, we discriminate against women making a living on the backs every day…and against thieves…against fraudulent voter registrars who really want their guy to win….
…laws are about limits, and limits means that some folks don’t get a pony for Christmas….
I don’t think that all discrimination is wrong. Some discrimination is productive. Tradition, by itself, isn’t sufficient justification for discrimination, though. The tradition itself has to be justified. In the narrow case of refusing to allow gay marriage, our traditions were based on outdated assumptions. Given the facts as we now know them, in the specific instance of gay marriage, there’s no productive basis on which to discriminate.
RightOFLeft on October 10, 2008 at 4:31 PM
…can I buy you a drink?
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 4:32 PM
I’m obviously not as holy as you are!
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:32 PM
In which Article or Amendment is this right enshrined?
Btw. what if the partner of your choice is your sister?
BKennedy on October 10, 2008 at 4:32 PM
What? No doggy? No reverse cowgirl?
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 4:32 PM
why does anyone have to believe in evolution? do you believe in gravity?
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:30 PM
Everything is belief. One always just believes in some set of axioms (that no one can explain, religious or not) and then tries to reason everything from there.
Just the idea that the universe is a rational place, the scientific basis, is a belief without any proof, whatsoever.
progressoverpeace on October 10, 2008 at 4:33 PM
Read the 9th amendment.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 4:33 PM
I believe we have bigger fish to fry than this.
HornetSting on October 10, 2008 at 4:33 PM
GOLD
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 4:33 PM
yeah He would never say anything like:
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:34 PM
…where does it say that?
…”unauthorized” sex, maybe?
…and, given the whole of Scripture, I’d have to say that homosexuality falls under that umbrella…again and again….
Puritan1648 on October 10, 2008 at 4:34 PM
…in the end, it’s not up for debate that homosexuality is a sin. That’s fairly settled.
I cannot speak for all different christian traditions, but many christians believe, as aengus pointed out before, that it’s not being homosexual that is a sin, but acting on it, just as a it is a sin, from the christian perspective, to engage in extra marital sex. Therefore God did not make “some people to be sinners”, instead there are sinful acts that people can choose to engage in or not. Granted, we all have different tendencies which can make our staying out trouble more challenging in certain areas.
neuquenguy on October 10, 2008 at 4:35 PM
Funny, I don’t recall anyone in The States voting on these except 4 people out of seven that just happened to be in black robes.
BKennedy on October 10, 2008 at 4:35 PM
no I don’t believe in gravity…I experience gravity all the time…don’t need to believe in it…
same for evolution!
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:35 PM
Understatement of the decade.
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 4:36 PM
No. It’s impossible to be as holy as I am. I’m just way too awesome.
For the humor impaired, that would be sarcasm.
Still married, but I’d take the drink. I’m oddly in the mood for a White Russian right now.
No, because children cannot consent to sex. It’s rape.
Your argument is better served by talking about siblings who want to marry.
Esthier on October 10, 2008 at 4:36 PM
Dictionary. Heard of it?
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 4:37 PM
There’s a very good chance you are a reprobate. Someone who has lost the ability to tell between a lie and actual truth. All throughout the Bible homosexuality is condemned. You may be a reprobate. Here’s one such example:
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR EFFEMINATE, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
effeminate. A man or a boy who submits himself to be used sexually by another man.
apacalyps on October 10, 2008 at 4:37 PM
I also remember reading an old biblical definition of marriage that essentially said that when a man and woman ‘know’ each other, they are married.
Or maybe I was drunk and spinning that line to some christian chick….
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 4:37 PM
The name’s Vladimir. Nice to meet you.
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 4:37 PM
Not that I am for teaching creationism in schools, mind you.
But I will say that, if a parent examines what his child is being taught on the subject of evolution, and objects strenuously to it, then it is being taught incorrectly.
All we can do is examine the evidence in place, and construct a framework on which to organize that evidence. The framework for fossil records and genetic variance is the theory of evolution. For all we know, the world was created yesterday, but, if so, evidence was for an evolutionary past was created with it.
If I may try to turn a phrase, if God created the world, He also created evolution.
Count to 10 on October 10, 2008 at 4:38 PM
It’s a sure bet with you.
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 4:38 PM
and who decides the age of consent? its 14 in britain I hear…
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:38 PM
I’m very glad to see the logical and legal argument triumphing over the desire of the majority to persecute a minority. It’s good to know that occasionally the Court does what it should and overturns incorrect law.
I hope to see gay marriage become Federal law at some point. Although, as more states recognize it as a right, the need for a SCOTUS decision becomes less and less important. Yet we still need a Federal recognition for Income Tax and other Federal issues.
Viscount_Bolingbroke on October 10, 2008 at 4:39 PM
That was just the truth. Calling Madison stupid is very much not true and only makes you look bitter. Are you the gun and Bible clinger Obama was talking about?
The Bible isn’t a dictionary, so it really isn’t in the business of defining words, especially English words, considering it was written in Hebrew and Greek, even though Jesus spoke Aramaic.
Esthier on October 10, 2008 at 4:40 PM
oh please, this is just judicial tyranny. the elected representatives of that state did not see fit to legalize homosexual marriage, so it has to be imposed upon them by a bunch of black-robed nazis…no surprise you would approve.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:41 PM
What has that got to do with the 9th amendment?
The concept of a ‘right’ to get married exists beyond the reach of the constitution. The absence of an enumerated right does not imply its illegitimacy. I have the right to masturbate (AND HOW!), which I don’t recall reading in the constitution.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 4:41 PM
If there is grass on the field…play ball!
ManlyRash on October 10, 2008 at 4:41 PM
thats the truth too…and yes I do cling to my gun and bible…
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:41 PM
Would we agree that sexual arousal is often subconscious and unlearned? You seem to be drawing a distinction between arousal (as subconscious) and the gender that stimulates that arousal (as learned through reinforcement). I’d disagree with that. Most men can constrain their attraction to just their wife–it takes discipline (like hitting a golf ball). However, most men require no discipline in refraining in attraction to other men. Halle Berry walking by would make the eye wander, but not some dude.
dedalus on October 10, 2008 at 4:41 PM
Conservapedia is not compiled exclusively by Christians.
Not at all. Christianity has outlived many different societies and polities and it will still be around when future historians are studying this age centuries from now.
Now it may be that Christianity and modernity are fundamentally incompatible and Christians will not enjoy the elevated status in the West that they have for over a thousand years. However Christians cannot, will not change so let the modern, enlightened secular state deal with them as it will.
aengus on October 10, 2008 at 4:41 PM
I call Godwin.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 4:42 PM
If it bleeds, it breeds
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 4:42 PM
And in the other case, just assume they mowed the lawn this morning.
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 4:42 PM
I guarantee you that if Obama becomes the the President and the Dems get a filibuster proof majority in the House, the issue of Gay marriage will be one of the first pieces of legislation they pursue.
Dreadnought223 on October 10, 2008 at 4:42 PM
ah yes and people like you get to impose those ‘rights’ on the rest of us…
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:43 PM
Limeygeek: just to show you that you are not half as clever as you think you are, and that you are in fact a bigot…I am an atheist.
Yet I hope Christianity is never maginalized in this country to the extent you want it to be, because it represents morality, which transcends the empty promise of Humanism, which in the end offers no brake whatsover on the basest of human behavior. Secular Humanism offers only Legalism, not morality as a guide to behavior, and Law can be twisted to serve any purpose the powerful desire…I direct you to study how the Communist Party managed to kill more of its own people than Hitler did.
And yes you are a bigot. It is fashionable to despise Christians and Christianity today, just as it was one day fashionable to hate blacks because of the color of their skin. (If this was 1908 you be the kind who made sport of the “nigras”). Which makes you a coward as well.
But one need only look to the country that produced you to see the Hell that awaits us here as we continue the decline to secular humanism.
pseudonominus on October 10, 2008 at 4:43 PM
I am a Trubdublian! I cannot prove I am a Trubdublian, but know that my people have been persecuted by you Humanians for centuries. I demand to have my rights recognized, and if they are not, you are all Trubdubphobes!
BKennedy on October 10, 2008 at 4:43 PM
Being a certified nitwit, I don’t think you’re in any position to judge my intelligence.
MadisonConservative on October 10, 2008 at 4:43 PM
you sure don’t call on logic, truth, history, etc.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:43 PM
Using the argument that people get divorced so let’s allow same sex couple the same right is not really an argument. Gay lifestyle is much more promiscuous so what’s next? Marriage to other species? I bet cats don’t sue for divorce.
The divorce rates in MA are over the top between same sex couples, and there are multiple sex partners involved in a large percentage of the marriages so it’s simply not the same model seen in heterosexual marriages.
I personally had no problems with same sex marriage until gay sex started to become part of school assemblies and the issue became one of special rights.
Christ taught to hate the sin and love the sinner. That’s a good thing to remember.
Hening on October 10, 2008 at 4:43 PM
I don’t. My whole point is that it is an illegitimate area for legislative intrusion – positive or negative.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 4:44 PM
this from someone who is qualified to know who speaks for God…right…do you even have a clue how idiotic you are? other than laughs, you’re useless.
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:44 PM
Are you trying to tell me something?
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 4:44 PM
Yes.
aengus on October 10, 2008 at 4:45 PM
This goes way off topic, but you experience something that someone described as gravity, but that connection is pure belief. Before gravity was identified, people didn’t even have any sort of idea of experiencing anything. The idea of some force acting on people was nonexistent. The way you know this is because most people are initially resistant, by intuition, to accepting the idea of gravity and the whole concept of a spherical Earth. Gravity is not an intuitive concept. Intuition says that up is up and down is down, everywhere. Now, the idea that things fall, locally, is intuitive, as we see that even dogs and cats and insects have no problems following falling objects. But gravity is an idea of such genius that it took a Newton to come up with it and one must believe in it.
progressoverpeace on October 10, 2008 at 4:45 PM
See where I said that the function of the Judiciary is to overturn incorrect law. This decision respects the rights of the majority while protecting those of a persecuted minority.
If you are one of the majority seeking to persecute the minority, then of course you will disagree with this decision.
Viscount_Bolingbroke on October 10, 2008 at 4:45 PM
So you’re cold, creamy and filling?
Pretty sure it’s 16 in Britain. And obviously, governments make those kind of laws just as they make laws against murder, defining what is and what is not murder.
Sounds plausible. Actually, I also read up on the old definition of marriage, particularly because I wanted to have sex and felt I could justify it. According to it, Mary and Joseph were considered married even though by today’s standard they would just have been considered engaged.
That’s why it wasn’t scandalous for Mary to be pregnant unless Joseph decided to leave her, making it obvious that the baby wasn’t his.
Esthier on October 10, 2008 at 4:46 PM
no surprise you’d say something like this…
I thought you were a good catholic?? well given the behavior of some of the priests….
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:46 PM
Wow. That stung.
I think I’ll reevaluate my life now.
Yep. I rule. Thought so.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 4:46 PM
No problem with them “marrying”, just don’t call it a marriage. Marriage by definition is between a man and a woman.
Words mean something, and changing just changing the meaning of a word because it is PC, is a path that I don’t think we want to go down.
And just to set the record straight, “tyranny of the majority” is hardly an accurate (tho dramatic I must say) description. It take time to re-invent social laws, and seeing as this law has been around culturally for a few thousand years, hardly calls it into “tyranny”, when no one was really harmed until the U.S. and it’s tax and owner ship laws were created.
Please do not embarrass yourself with the “slaves were legal at one time” argument.
right2bright on October 10, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Oh. My. God.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Oh noes! You mean…no sixty-nine? No ninety-nine? No footsies? No Doggy? No cowgirl or reverse cowgirl? No twin-boob-slip-and-slide? No skittle-hop or venus butterfly? No piledriver or straddleback? No Lewinskis?
Missionary means I actually have to LOOK at her. Sheesh. Thanks a lot, Capt. Killbuzz Kinsey.
ManlyRash on October 10, 2008 at 4:47 PM
yes, but given that the homosexual lobby is overturning marriage laws, why do you think NAMBLA wouldn’t be successful at overturning age of consent laws??
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:47 PM
I invite you to bring your argument to court at your own dime and be prepared to pay the opposition’s court costs when you lose. In other words, I call this specious bull-crap.
Viscount_Bolingbroke on October 10, 2008 at 4:48 PM
No boston steamer, no dirty sanchez, no golden showers?
My repertoire is farked.
LimeyGeek on October 10, 2008 at 4:49 PM
Stealing actually victimizes someone. And yes, there are rare cases of what you describe (kleptomania); people that cannot control their urge to steal. Those specific people aren’t criminals, and they aren’t sinners – they’re sick, and they need treatment. There’s no comparison to sexual orientation, either way.
This is the heart of my problem with Christianity (and Christianity’s looming existential crisis): all morality is premised on an antiquated understanding of human behavior. Will Christianity continue to adapt as we learn more about what it means to be human? Can Christianity even countenance learning in the social sciences? Christianity dogmatically restrains us from finally solving the problems of living with each other.
RightOFLeft on October 10, 2008 at 4:49 PM
Nothing quite as refreshing as a self-righteous Bible-Banger.
ManlyRash on October 10, 2008 at 4:49 PM
Neither am I. But, given all the bones they throw to every group under the sun in the public school curricula – teaching just incorrect facts or exaggerating minor feats to make some group feel good about themselves – I don’t see why Christians should be denied even some mention of an idea that most people hear eventually, anyway.
progressoverpeace on October 10, 2008 at 4:50 PM
Amenment the Ninth: “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”
But the legal logic in this case never mentions the Ninth Amendment.
Essentially you are using the “living, breathing” Constitution line in that the Constitution says what you say it does, e.g. that there is a right to recieve benefits from the government through a commital contract with another person even when that commital contract does not benefit the state is a right retained by the people.
The Ninth Amendment does not say “If it is not covered here, it is inherently permissable.”
Oh, and get your head out of
hisyour *&^BKennedy on October 10, 2008 at 4:51 PM
nothing quite as refreshing as a hypocrite who whined about my ‘catholic bashing’ uh huh
right4life on October 10, 2008 at 4:51 PM
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