CNN: ACORN fraud and ties to Obama

posted at 11:15 am on October 10, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

Drew Griffin had better watch out.  If he continues reporting on Barack Obama like this, pretty soon the Obama campaign will target him as an extremist and a hate-monger.  Griffin tells Campbell Brown on CNN how ACORN commits voter fraud, and then explains how Obama is closely tied to the group:

CAMPBELL BROWN: Now, it is officially nonpartisan. But this group works hard to register low-income voters who tend to vote for Democrats. ACORN’s under fire over allegedly phony voter registration in several states, and Drew Griffin of CNN’s Special Investigations Unit is digging into this for us. You’ll be pretty surprised by what he found.

DREW GRIFFIN: There are 5,000 of them.

RUTH ANN HOAGLAND: These?

GRIFFIN: These.

HOAGLAND: These.

GRIFFIN: Those?

HOAGLAND: And these.

GRIFFIN: They are new voter registration applications turned into by the community organizing group, ACORN, which has launched a massive voter registration drive, and with 5,000 applications in this one county dumped on just before the October 6 deadline; it looked like to Elections Board Administrator Ruth Ann Hoagland like ACORN was extremely successful, until her workers began finding problems.

GRIFFIN: A lot of them?

HOAGLAND: 50 percent. We had close to 5,000 total from ACORN, and so far we have identified about 2,100.

GRIFFIN: So roughly half of them are bad.

HOAGLAND: Correct.

GRIFFIN: Registered to a dead person, registered as a person who lives at a fast food shop.

HOAGLAND: Yes.

GRIFFIN: Or just all of them amazingly in the same hand.

HOAGLAND: Yes. Yes. All the signatures look exactly the same. Everything on the card filled out looks just the same.

GRIFFIN: Ruth Ann. Fraud?

HOAGLAND: We have no idea what the motive behind it is. It’s just overwhelming to us.

GRIFFIN: It’s not that some are bad. Once they started going through them, every one they looked at was bad.

HOAGLAND: Right. We’ve run into a lot of the same – we’ll go through ten cards, and the exact — in the exact same hand, the card is filled out the same, the signature is the same. We’ll make telephone calls, and every phone has been disconnected.

GRIFFIN: Hoagland decided to stop the review all together, work on other apparently legitimate registrations and get back to the other half of what she now calls “the fake pile,” later.

HOAGLAND: It’s frustrating. It’s very frustrating.

GRIFFIN: Here is another ACORN filled out registration form. It’s for Jimmy Johns, 10839 Broadway in Crown Pointe. Jimmy Johns. We decided to track him down. Here he is. Is there anybody here that’s actually named Jimmy Johns? Nobody registered to vote here named Jimmy Johns? This could really — I mean, there has been no fraud yet because people haven’t voted yet, right?

HOAGLAND: Correct. We’ll find out on Election Day.

GRIFFIN: But it certainly sets up a potential.

HOAGLAND: The potential, I suppose, is always there. It’s just that the volume — the volume is just incredible.

GRIFFIN: The elections board is run by both Republicans and Democrats. Regardless of whose party, we’ve got a problem with these ballots. These registrations.

SALLY LASOTA: Both sides, Democrats and Republicans. For us, it’s unfortunate. ACORN, with its intent, perhaps, was good to begin with, but unfortunately went awry somewhere.

GRIFFIN: It is fraud, says the Democrat Director, Sally LaSota.

LASOTA: Well, if you look, it’s the same signature for all three voters. It’s as though the one individual tried — did three separate applications but you can tell the signature—we’re not handwriting experts, but what’s obvious is obvious.

GRIFFIN: ACORN’s voter registration drives are under investigation or suspicion in several states. Just yesterday, local authorities raided this ACORN office in Las Vegas where ACORN workers allegedly registered members of the Dallas Cowboys football team. Over the last four years, a dozen states investigated complaints of fraudulent registrations filed by ACORN, and complaints of fraud by ACORN have exploded nationwide in just the last few weeks. We tried to contact the ACORN director in Gary, Indiana. But when the phone messages went unanswered, we went to the office. It’s abandoned. ACORN told us that the state director for Indiana ACORN is actually based in this office in Milwaukee. But today, we found it empty, too. ACORN’s attorney in Boston told us allegations his organization has committed fraud is a government attempt to keep the disenfranchised from voting.

ACORN LAWYER BRIAN MOLLER: We believe their purpose is to attack ACORN and suppress votes. We think that by attacking ACORN that they are going to discourage people who have may have registered with ACORN from voting.

GRIFFIN: Brian Moller says ACORN has its own quality control, has fired workers in the past, including workers in Gary. Despite its past, the Obama campaign gave $800,000 to ACORN to help fund its primary registration drive, and ACORN has endorsed Barack Obama for president. The Obama campaign reacted this afternoon, saying, it is “committed to protecting the integrity of the voting process and said it has not worked with ACORN during the general election”.

BROWN: Drew Griffin. Drew, though the campaign, or Obama, rather, has worked with ACORN, though, in the past. Is that accurate?

GRIFFIN: That’s accurate. As an attorney, he represented ACORN in a motor voter court case, which, by the way, Barack Obama won for ACORN. But all afternoon long, the campaign has been calling us, trying to distance themselves from ACORN.

BROWN: All right. Drew Griffin for us, tonight. Drew, as always, thanks.

I’m less surprised to see this on Campbell Brown’s show than on Anderson Cooper’s. I’ve appeared a couple of times with Brown, and she seems interested in hearing both sides of a story. When Cooper heard Griffin’s report on Obama and Ayers, Cooper looked like he’d eaten a bug and attempted to water it down somewhat. Brown not only let Griffin’s reporting stand, she gave him the opening to talk about Obama’s ties to ACORN.

How long before Team Obama sends an e-mail asking followers to start flooding CNN with outrage and demands that Griffin be taken off the air?


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Yeah, there were good reasons for having standardized rules, deadlines, and registration at the County Clerk’s Office and requiring a birth certificate for ID.

Dusty on October 10, 2008 at 12:14 PM

LOL. We don’t even require a birth certificate to be a Presidential candidate.

progressoverpeace on October 10, 2008 at 12:15 PM

Nice one, progressoverpeace.

wise_man on October 10, 2008 at 12:16 PM

I want the information about Obama/Acorn against Citibank.

Cindy Munford on October 10, 2008 at 11:26 AM

I never heard this before this morning. I googled “Obama Citibank.” It found a number of things. Try this:

http://wordpress.com/tag/obama-citibank/

That will take you to a blog called Jawa Report.

BuckeyeSam on October 10, 2008 at 12:18 PM

Solution : Federal law stating that voters may only register to vote at a state license bureau (i.e. DMV etc.), but appear in person. That prospective voters must provide certified copy of birth certificate or passport, must provide official photo ID, must provide proof of current residence. Done.

Dasher on October 10, 2008 at 12:10 PM

Addition: Maintained in NATIONAL database by SSN so only ONE enry can exist in the country… multi-state registrations avoided. Further, when you vote, that SSN is ticked off in that database is is usable only once for each election. No dead people. No BS. Could all be real time and wouldn’t even take much of a server… just bandwidth.

CC

CapedConservative on October 10, 2008 at 12:21 PM

I’m afraid that voting is so wrought with fraud this year there is little hope.

I saw an outraged Ken Blackwell on TV yesterday saying “Wake-up America”

After the early voting in Ohio it may be too late.

The way the Dems tried to steal Florida in 2000 isn’t as much an outrage as how many Americans believe Karl Rove stole that election.

The Dem with figure out a way to blame the Repubicans this time too. Even if BHO wins!

CinC on October 10, 2008 at 12:23 PM

Average Joe will have no idea that the Democrats are committing massive voter fraud to get Barry elected.
tflst5 on October 10, 2008 at 12:09 PM

Actually, I do believe the Dems are committing massive voter fraud to get Barry elected.

How about this theory…. CNN is reporting this to lay doubt about election results. This way they can insure that the elections will not be decided on election night due to the hundreds of lawsuits that will be filed. They are generating future viewership by manufacturing the conditions for spellbinding “breaking news” (Think a recap of Florida 2000 multiplied). They tried it in 2004, with Ohio, but never got traction. Notice how they plant the seeds of doubt, registrations are obviously fraudulent, but no way to know if or how they vote.

AverageJoe on October 10, 2008 at 12:24 PM

Griffin looking for someone to start his car and taste his food.
any………..Volunteers?

try again later on October 10, 2008 at 12:26 PM

Acorns are in season.

Maybe we should toss a couple of acorns at Obama’s feet whenever he does he speeches? I’m sure Michael Steele would approve.

Kokonut on October 10, 2008 at 12:27 PM

Acorns are in season.

Maybe we should toss a couple of acorns at Obama’s feet whenever he does his speeches? I’m sure Michael Steele would approve

Kokonut on October 10, 2008 at 12:27 PM

Hey, if those people at McCain’s townhall yesterday in Wisconsin know about ACORN, it is not too late to get this country up in arms about what these Marxists are up to.

I saw Griffin’s report on AC360 last night and I thought Cooper was genuinely shocked and upset by Griffin’s report. I thought they did a good job of presenting it straight without any political twist. I’m a little surprised Campbell Brown went there.

I want these ACORN thugs shut down. It is more important than defeating Obama. If we have to avoif the connection with Obama and the inevitable throwing of the race card to so it, I’m fine with that. These guys were doing the same shit in 2004 and there was no black man on the Democratic ticket. They are purely and simply out to undermine our election system so that they can flashmob the polls and create chaos on Election Day. It doesn’t matter who their favored candidate is or how deep or shallow his personal connections are to them, this is a serious threat to our democracy and we must stop it.

rockmom on October 10, 2008 at 12:29 PM

I think my Halloween costume this year is gonna have to be full-zombie getup with a sign = “Resurrected for Change” with a big Obama button.

tflst5 on October 10, 2008 at 12:31 PM

AverageJoe on October 10, 2008 at 12:24 PM

At this point I am hopeful that the Republican Party in every battleground state is preparing a lawsuit to challenge the electin results if Obama wins. I don’t care how bad it makes Republicans look. If we go down without a fight against these people our country is lost.

rockmom on October 10, 2008 at 12:31 PM

“That’s not the ACORN remember”- BO (nudge,nudge,wink,wink)

CynicalOptimist on October 10, 2008 at 12:32 PM

CNN is reporting this to lay doubt about election results. This way they can insure that the elections will not be decided on election night due to the hundreds of lawsuits that will be filed. (Think a recap of Florida 2000 multiplied).

AverageJoe on October 10, 2008 at 12:24 PM

The Repubicans will never file the lawsuits like “2000″.

No matter how obvious the fraud is!

That would be defending them selves.

CinC on October 10, 2008 at 12:33 PM

What happens if Obama wins and it’s proven that he won by fraud? Does the entire election get thrown out — i.e. how does it affect local and regional elections, and how do we settle the presidency, how do we protect the nation itself if the democratic process is proven to have been undermined? I really don’t know what the Constitutional procedures are.

This is more than infuriating, to me. It’s downright terrifying.

leucanthemum b on October 10, 2008 at 12:34 PM

This is absolutely frightening and an attack on our democracy no less insidious than flying jets into buildings. If our elections are stolen, are suspect, or are fraudulent how can we ever say the people have spoken? perhaps it will be the cheaters have spoken. Find out who these folks are that signed these cards, hook ‘em up for fraud. teach folks and orghanizations to not mess around with our election process.

skatz51 on October 10, 2008 at 12:34 PM

So are these fraud endeavors by ACORN the reason Obama is so ahead in many polls or are people serious buying his BS and are willing to vote that walking, talking disaster into the White House?

Yakko77 on October 10, 2008 at 12:06 PM

Yes. It creates momentum and the illustion that more people think Obama is okay than actually do think he is okay. Some people just vote for the winner. Or they don’t bother to show if it seems likely their guy will lose. Self-fullfilling fake momentum.

petunia on October 10, 2008 at 12:42 PM

At this point I am hopeful that the Republican Party in every battleground state is preparing a lawsuit to challenge the electin results if Obama wins. I don’t care how bad it makes Republicans look. If we go down without a fight against these people our country is lost.
rockmom on October 10, 2008 at 12:31 PM

Without this news and others, I’d say that your comment is paranoid. When the democrats did this in Dlorida in 2000, and Ohio in 2004, they looked like the moonbats that they were. But, BECAUSE of this news and others, I absolutely know that this is what we have to do, at this point.

wise_man on October 10, 2008 at 12:43 PM

Acorns are in season.

Maybe we should toss a couple of acorns at Obama’s feet whenever he does his speeches? I’m sure Michael Steele would approve

Kokonut on October 10, 2008 at 12:27 PM

Yeah and an acorn costume should follow him around. Or maybe a squirrel holding an acorn and a sign saying he is stock piling fake votes for the winter… but any nut would probably work… walnuts and peanuts are cheap and plentiful.

petunia on October 10, 2008 at 12:46 PM

This is really outrageous.

And by the way I do not believe some of these battleground polls. I am wondering if they are just calling too many Democrats because they are overestimating the number of real voters out there.

Terrye on October 10, 2008 at 12:48 PM

petunia:

It is called the bandwagon effect. In the end, a lot of people will go with the majority. Or whatever they think the majority position is.

Terrye on October 10, 2008 at 12:51 PM

What happens if Obama wins and it’s proven that he won by fraud? Does the entire election get thrown out — i.e. how does it affect local and regional elections, and how do we settle the presidency, how do we protect the nation itself if the democratic process is proven to have been undermined? I really don’t know what the Constitutional procedures are.

This is more than infuriating, to me. It’s downright terrifying.

leucanthemum b on October 10, 2008 at 12:34 PM

Well there is always impeachment. But that would leave us with Biden… or Pelosi. I don’t think there is any mechanism for revote… so it would be four years before anything would change. But morally it should be pursued.

Actually there are already several grounds to impeach Obama if they pan out. The Odinga/Kenya connection, campaigning on tax payer money for a foreign government and inciting genocide… The lack of an American birth certificate… Illegal campaign contributions from overseas and so forth… A possible stealing of the nomination that may yet be proven… The messing with foreign policy in Iraq… The RICO investigation in the Rezko case… Acorn is one of quite a few high crimes and misdemeaners that seem in the offing.

petunia on October 10, 2008 at 12:54 PM

Didn’t Barry challenge registered voter sigs on his rivals petitions to have their names placed on the election ballot?

Barry? Hello?

Limerick on October 10, 2008 at 11:26 AM

That’s probably how he knew he could get the names thrown out to begin with; he knew how many of the signatures were collected in that district.

tehd on October 10, 2008 at 12:55 PM

The polls are way closer than Rasmussen reports.
Look at Zogby

And that’s well within the Bradley affect!

So the answer for the Dems is exactly what they are doing. Cheat everywhere you can!

CinC on October 10, 2008 at 12:56 PM

New campaign slogan: It takes a NUT to vote for Obama! An ACORN that is…

petunia on October 10, 2008 at 12:57 PM

The idea is not to get “Terrell Owens or Tony Romo” on the voter roles but to get names on the roles that can be used later to vote by anyone showing up to claim that they are that person.

Watch the inner cities that is where the main thrust is going on. Philadelpha, St Louis, Cleveland, ect… is where the battles will be hardest fought over voters.

William Amos on October 10, 2008 at 12:59 PM

ACORN pays by the hour 8.00.

Acorn has a policy of setting quotas. If the worker doesnt meet the quota he or she is fired.

ACORN is suppose to reveiw the names of those submitted (The poll collecters DO NOT take the names to the county registars. The ACORN management does) It is ACORN management therefor that submits the faudulent names not the workers.

What people forget is the other aspect of this. The main thrust isnt getting phoney names on the voting roles (Thats just a side benefit.) THe main thrust is to BUY the vote of the vote register.

Think of it the democratic party is giving millons of voters out there MONEY to go out and not only collect votes FOR them to to actually vote itself.

The whole real focus isnt to steal the election through fraud but rather steal it by buying votes out there via this method.

The whole scheme is nothing more than a massive vote buying racket.

William Amos on October 10, 2008 at 1:06 PM

This is not accidental. ACORN is working under The Cloward-Piven Strategy of Orchestrated Crisis.

ACORN should be prosecuted under the RICO statutes.

thegreatbeast on October 10, 2008 at 1:11 PM

“As far back as I can remember, they’ve always voted in the election,” Guidry said of her parents.

The March 2008 Primary was no exception. Voting records show Alexis’ mom, Gloria Guidry, cast her ballot in person near her South Houston home.

“It was just very shocking, a little unsettling,” said Alexis Guidry.

It’s unsettling because Gloria Guidry died of cancer 10 months before the March Primary.

That is from the story on Drudge about 4000 Houston dead voters.

Hmmm it seems it would take more cunning to actually keep track of who died and vote for them than the simple over registering that is being reported. There is more going on here than has been brought out yet. This kind of thing would take a lot of coordination and planning and record keeping. Someone knows the truth, we need to find them, fast.

petunia on October 10, 2008 at 1:19 PM

Ms. Lasota, the Democrat voting judge, states: “ACORN, with its intent, perhaps, was good to begin with, but unfortunately went awry somewhere.”

…I guess, using that logic, you could say that Charles Manson had the intention of sending Tex Watson over to Sharon Tate’s house to secure an autograph, but it “went awry somewhere”….

…Willie Sutton was intending to make a deposit at the bank, but then things “went awry somewhere”….

…the SS guards at Treblinka had intended to afford their new charges a nice, refreshing shower after their long rail journeys, but but things “went awry somewhere”….

…when you set out to commit voter fraud, and voter fraud occurs, you’re accomplishing your mission….

…the only thing that “went awry somewhere” is that your childish forgeries were discovered…because the election judges had functioning eyeballs and at least half a brain cell….

…next time, ACORN needs to stay away from fraud…they don’t do it very well…they should try bribery instead…that way, people would not be “discourag(ing) people who have may have registered with ACORN from voting”…officials, now as guilty as ACORN attorneys and officials, would be encouraged to join ACORN in criminality….

Puritan1648 on October 10, 2008 at 1:19 PM

BuckeyeSam on October 10, 2008 at 12:18 PM

I had heard that this was settled out of court. Since Citibank appears to still be in solid shape I wonder if they decided it was easier to fight on a case by case basis then to cave on a wholesale decision to back sub primes? There is so many snippets of information out there that the truth is hard to figure out. Which I think is the goal.

Cindy Munford on October 10, 2008 at 1:32 PM

We’re all livid about what his happening, it’s time to face the fact that John McCain doesn’t have the stones for what he has to do to win. Attempting to stay above the fray is having the exact opposite result. For a guy with so much courage, I certainly haven’t seen it. He just can’t sell it.

I’ve concluded that this isn’t such a bad thing for the long term vitality of the RNC and for the country as well. Repubs need to bring candidates that can articulate the arguement while defending conservative principles. But short term, it’s going to hurt like hell.

John McCain is not that guy, not that he ever was anyway.

swami on October 10, 2008 at 1:42 PM

This guy went to all of that trouble, but didn’t get into the fact that Obama COMMUNITY ORGANIZED FOR Fuc*ing ACORN!

marklmail on October 10, 2008 at 1:51 PM

Well there is always impeachment. But that would leave us with Biden…

petunia on October 10, 2008 at 12:54 PM

The trouble with this is, the entire ticket would have benefited from fraud. Why should one half be rewarded by settlement after impeachment?

The bigger problem still is what the whole thing does to the democratic system we have, and what little faith there has been in it.

leucanthemum b on October 10, 2008 at 1:52 PM

marklmail on October 10, 2008 at 1:51 PM

Everytime that Obama mentions his humble beginnings as a community organizer, everyone needs to know that he was participating in voter fraud, and ACORN has perpetuated just about their entire existence under the guise of voter registration for minorities.

the linked video with the clip of the ACORN representative claiming that this is nothing more than ‘voter suppression’ when they mention this fraud by ACORN – is absolutely the most bold faced lie I have seen today.

wise_man on October 10, 2008 at 2:08 PM

Tactics employed by ACORN would make the most hardened mafia gumba blush.

FireBlogger on October 10, 2008 at 2:16 PM

petunia on October 10, 2008 at 12:54 PM

Democrats will be in charge, and they will never impeach Barack Obama – no matter what is found on him. We won’t recognize the United States in two years, and it will be the fault of the media, and the lazy, stupid American voter, who can’t be bothered to take a look at the candidates, because, you know, American Idol or whatever is on.

The rest of us will have no choice in the matter.

We get control of this problem, we win this election, or we can kiss this country goodbye. I am completely serious.

capitalist piglet on October 10, 2008 at 2:33 PM

How long before Team Obama sends an e-mail asking followers to start flooding CNN with outrage and demands that Griffin be taken off the air?

How long before Team Lemming, um, McCain issues a plea to stop the politics of personal destruction against his worthy opponent.

Western_Civ on October 10, 2008 at 2:37 PM

Don’t be an idiot, Western_Civ. He’s running ads about Obma and Ayers right now. Putz.

wise_man on October 10, 2008 at 2:42 PM

New McCain ad hits hard on ARORN and Obama.

Yakko77 on October 10, 2008 at 3:00 PM

ACORN*

Yakko77 on October 10, 2008 at 3:00 PM

The DEms do not care. If this goes to the Congress for a decision the Dems will vote Obama in.

davod on October 10, 2008 at 3:02 PM

How long before Team Obama sends an e-mail asking followers to start flooding CNN with outrage and demands that Griffin be taken off the air?

How long before Team Lemming, um, McCain issues a plea to stop the politics of personal destruction against his worthy opponent.
Western_Civ on October 10, 2008 at 2:37 PM

As Yakko77 pointed out and as you can see here, he is.

You are an idiot, Western_Civ.

wise_man on October 10, 2008 at 3:14 PM

At what point does DoJ finally take action against such blatant fraud? What are they waiting for? This has gotten completely ridiculous. Can anyone say RICO?

Big John on October 10, 2008 at 4:18 PM

petunia on October 10, 2008 at 12:54 PM

I’m not sure he can be impeached as a practical matter, and at any rate not for something he didn’t do while in office.

DrSteve on October 10, 2008 at 4:36 PM

Proof positive that even a blind press finds an ACORN once in a while.

Patrick S on October 10, 2008 at 5:09 PM

How long before Team Obama sends an e-mail asking followers to start flooding CNN with outrage and demands that Griffin be taken off the air?
How long before Team Lemming, um, McCain issues a plea to stop the politics of personal destruction against his worthy opponent.
Western_Civ on October 10, 2008 at 2:37 PM
As Yakko77 pointed out and as you can see here, he is.

You are an idiot, Western_Civ.

wise_man on October 10, 2008 at 3:14 PM

Dear Wise Man,
Your (not) brilliant rebuke has the whiff of someone very confused. John McCain has repeatedly apologized for the actions of real conservatives who are trying to get McCain(a fake conservative) elected. He threw Bill Cunningham under the bus for calling Obama by his name “Hussein.” Just yesterday, the Palin campaign repudiated the comments of a good sherrif in Florida for saying “Barack Hussein Obama” at an introduction for Palin. And now that sherrif is under federal investigation under bogus pretenses. Does McCain step in to cry foul? Of course not.

What don’t you get? McCain has done everything possible to throw the election. When I said “how long will it be before we have to endure the plea to stop the politics of personal destruction,” I was only half kidding. Apparanetly, you can’t tell the difference. Wise up, “Wise_Man”

Western_Civ on October 10, 2008 at 5:12 PM

“Fraud?”

“We have no idea the motive these dead people had for registering to vote.”

peacenprosperity on October 10, 2008 at 6:10 PM

Campbell Brown is racist. Doesn’t she realize that anything that casts aspersions on the ONE is racist and must be supressed? She is trying to save the reputation of CNN, a lost cause, but still there is some nobility to her effort to actually try to investigate facts, not just spew Obama press releases and talking points.

eaglewingz08 on October 10, 2008 at 7:42 PM

I demand RICO indictments and all indicted organizers perp walked out of their offices within the next 10 days!
Have Heritage or the RNC sue ACORN for voter disenfranchisement.
In the words of Arnold Schwarzenegger:“Duew whit. Duew whit NAAUWGH!”
For once in a decade DEVELOP A PAIR!!!
Thank you for attention and immediate response in this serious matter.

Amendment X on October 10, 2008 at 11:53 PM

Bad seeds. I’m glad this is becoming an issue and it seems like most of the states are on the lookout for these cheaters. The one thing I do worry is that states have little money to unravel some of the more elaborate frauds. Some of the ACORN malpractice is easily exposed. I would be interested in a true independent study of this rather than relying on the usual partisan fringe publications to figure out how widespread and pervasive the problem is.

lexhamfox on October 10, 2008 at 11:59 PM

ED:

When Cooper heard Griffin’s report on Obama and Ayers, Cooper looked like he’d eaten a bug and attempted to water it down somewhat.

…the report or the bug? Just wondering. (Sorry. I couldn’t resist.)

Captain Scarlet on October 11, 2008 at 6:33 AM

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