Obama to McCain: Why won’t you say it to my face?
posted at 1:09 pm on October 9, 2008 by Allahpundit
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All he wants to do is to talk about the financial crisis, except of course that when he had the chance to do that in front of millions, he had nothing to offer except the stalest, most banal talking points.
In any case, I’m intrigued that he’s calling Maverick gutless, as it pretty much obliges McCain to come after him during Wednesday’s debate. Why he’d want to force an issue into the discussion that could hurt him escapes me, unless (a) their internal polling shows that Ayers is a total non-issue, of which I’m skeptical, or (b) he figures McCain’s going to come after him anyway and he might as well throw a punch now. The new Gallup’s just out, incidentally; I’m guessing the answer’s (a). Click the image to watch.
Update: Yeah, probably (a).
Update: Dave Weigel notes that Ayers has already been an issue in a few swing states and hasn’t paid dividends. Which is true, but there’s a huge difference in amplitude coming from McCain himself than from some 527 ad.
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Why doesn’t he just get in McCain’s face, like they learn to do at Camp Obama?
JammieWearingFool on October 9, 2008 at 1:11 PM
Because if Mccain did, you would call him a RACIST B.O., and since we already know you are, what is the point?
upinak on October 9, 2008 at 1:12 PM
Because Tom Brokaw removed all questions about Ayers you marxist freak.
ex-Democrat on October 9, 2008 at 1:13 PM
I think he is trying to make McCain lose his temper or show some kind of erratic aggression. I think that covers all todays talking points.
ctmom on October 9, 2008 at 1:13 PM
All someone in the McCain camp has to say is that the debates are about discussing issues – economic and military – and campaigns are about fleshing out the total message.
Besides, what would Obama’s response be? “I’m rubber, you’re glue….”
HawaiiLwyr on October 9, 2008 at 1:14 PM
DO IT MAVERICK!!!
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 9, 2008 at 1:14 PM
Why is McCain pulling his punches when it comes to Rev. Wright?
After all, Obama was only 43 by the time he’d been sitting in the front pew of Rev. Wright’s church for 20 years.
Urban Infidel on October 9, 2008 at 1:14 PM
Mac will bring it up, right along with what he just did moments ago by calling out Obarfy and the dems in the FF scandal.
Obacon is on the verge of making some big mistakes, you can feel it, he is going to tie himself into a pretzel trying to explain his association with Ayers.
This might be the DFL Chinese Fire Drill we’ve been waiting for.
Bishop on October 9, 2008 at 1:15 PM
In Soviet United States (circa 2009), face says it to you.
lorien1973 on October 9, 2008 at 1:15 PM
I think he’s taking this approach so that if/when polls for Teh One start sinking he can cry “racism”.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 9, 2008 at 1:15 PM
I think this is Obama unrestrained and playing the “picked on” card. He’s bullied about all his criminal cronies.
Topsecretk9 on October 9, 2008 at 1:15 PM
I, for one, want to see a flash of that famous nasty McCain temper right about now.
We are all mad as hell and we want a POTUS who is mad as hell too.
Do it Mav!
Elizabetty on October 9, 2008 at 1:15 PM
He’s forcing McCain to explain why he’s making Palin and even his own wife do all the campaign dirty work.
cornfedbubba on October 9, 2008 at 1:15 PM
Did he name names or just use that weak “democrats in congress” line?
lorien1973 on October 9, 2008 at 1:16 PM
*deeeeeeeeeep breeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaath….*
Oh please oh please oh please oh please
oh please oh please oh please oh please
oh please oh please oh please oh please
oh please oh please oh please oh please
oh please oh please oh please oh please
oh please oh please oh please oh please
oh please oh please oh please oh please
oh please oh please oh please oh please!!!!!!!!!
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 9, 2008 at 1:16 PM
Welcome to the “astroturfing” club!
We’ve been begging for that for weeks!
Glad to get another person on the train.
lorien1973 on October 9, 2008 at 1:16 PM
They’re still hoping to poke McCain as much as they can to make him lose his temper. Hasn’t happened yet. This is the democrat’s “McCain isn’t ready to lead”(he’ll lose his temper and nuke russia or whatever) card that they continue to hang onto for this election.
wise_man on October 9, 2008 at 1:17 PM
Did he name names or just use that weak “democrats in congress” line?
lorien1973 on October 9, 2008 at 1:16 PM
Don’t know the specifics, but Rush just mentioned it and seemed pretty happy.
Bishop on October 9, 2008 at 1:17 PM
That’s what I thought too.
McCain can hit Obama by announcing to the audience in advance that tomorrow the MSM will describe McCain as erratic and unstable, and that they could save themselves the trouble of reading the newspaper, as the stories are written in advance.
i.e., McCain is fighting the media, but hasn’t fully engaged. Given his politics, maybe McCain just doesn’t feel as abandoned by, and victimized by the MSM as the average Conservative does. I suppose he has some lingering respect for it.
JiangxiDad on October 9, 2008 at 1:17 PM
The undertakers did a good job on him, I think. He looks so natural.
AubieJon on October 9, 2008 at 1:17 PM
He’s forcing McCain to explain why he’s making Palin and even his own wife do all the campaign dirty work.
cornfedbubba on October 9, 2008 at 1:15 PM
Yeeeeeeeeeee…..ahhh. Right.
Bishop on October 9, 2008 at 1:18 PM
lol
BadgerHawk on October 9, 2008 at 1:18 PM
In Soviet United States, circa 2009, Governments own the banks!
And the magic they worked in the housing market; they’ll work with your 401k Plan!
lorien1973 on October 9, 2008 at 1:19 PM
<__>
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 9, 2008 at 1:19 PM
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 9, 2008 at 1:20 PM
Stupid HTML.
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 9, 2008 at 1:20 PM
If the polling is showing it’s a non-issue then why are you skeptical?
I think it is an issue, it should be a huge issue. Obama is lying about his ties to Ayers, about his ties to ACORN, whitewashing his whole past. (is that racist?)
The community organizing origins they both share and his links to the New Party/Socialists and ACORN make me wonder if Obama isn’t the ultimate leftist Manchurian candidate.
coondawg on October 9, 2008 at 1:20 PM
I’m going to assume that’s a “no” cuz, ya know, I’m pretty sure it is. McCain won’t walk off the cliff that will win him this thing.
lorien1973 on October 9, 2008 at 1:20 PM
Johnny Mac was tortured by the Vietcong for 5 years– and he had the choice to leave early. I think he can handle your whiny little self, Urkel.
Pasalubong on October 9, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Yakov Smirnoff? That you?
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 9, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Obama wouldn’t be taunting him to throw a punch unless he had a counterpunch ready to go. I wonder what it is?
SnarkVader on October 9, 2008 at 1:21 PM
c) McCain is mean spirited.
Mcguyver on October 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Rush playing it now.
AubieJon on October 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM
That would actually be great. It would give McCain the opportunity to use the tactic I suggested yesterday. Or say something like:
“Is that the type of ‘diplomacy’ you’re going use when one of or allies or our enemies criticizes you, Senator? Not very presidential, sir.” Take the Race Card and turn it around–without the anger and attendent irrationality that that it’s intend to provoke.
baldilocks on October 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Playing the audio on Rush now….
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM
It’s all I got. I gotta laugh while the world burns. McCain doesn’t seem to be taking it seriously. Why should I?
lorien1973 on October 9, 2008 at 1:23 PM
DAMMIT. No names. DAMMIT!!
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 9, 2008 at 1:23 PM
This is payback for the ad McCain ran just before the last debate in which McCain basically called Obama a liar. Now Obama is calling McCain a coward. And probably trying to tick him off.
Except McCain knows he’s not a coward, but Obama knows he’s a liar.
Wethal on October 9, 2008 at 1:23 PM
Since when did Barack Obama turn into Donny Baker?
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 9, 2008 at 1:23 PM
The Ayers thing could end up hurting McCain. This is going to be the McCain-Palin campaign’s focus for the next week or so, and Obama’s going to take advantage of that by asserting at the debate that they would rather focus on decade-old associations than on how to fix the economy. He’ll say that they don’t have anything to tell the American people about how they’re going to deal with the one issue that 60% of voters consider the most important one this year. I’ve seen no indication of a coherent answer on the economy from McCain, so Obama might be right (even if his plan makes no sense either). As a bonus, McCain will seem to be the agressor while Obama “rises above” it all, leading squishy independent voters to disfavor McCain. I can see it coming a mile away.
Big S on October 9, 2008 at 1:23 PM
lorien1973 on October 9, 2008 at 1:20 PM
Could be, but I suppose I’ll just have to wait to hear more.
I’m still optimistic and keeping the faith (except for constructing my bunker, of course).
Bishop on October 9, 2008 at 1:23 PM
To the winner comes the spoils. When you act like a little like a loser…you get treated like one John McCain.
I find this pathetic to have to listen to, but we are at this point for a reason.
John McCain called a coward and it is no big deal.
tomas on October 9, 2008 at 1:23 PM
Well shit. No names, no wonder Rush didn’t make more of it.
Back to the bunker.
Bishop on October 9, 2008 at 1:24 PM
I wish they’d succeed….
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 9, 2008 at 1:25 PM
It’s amazing to me that this is a non-issue for so many people.
I’d have qualms about associating with a repentent terrorist, yet Obama’s content to play kissy face with an unrepentant.
A couple of years ago I friend asked me to take an acquaintance of his to Connecticut with me one afternoon. When I found out he was a former Weatherman, I refused. Weatherman? No, thanks; not in my car.
Hear that, Barry? It was easy.
Kensington on October 9, 2008 at 1:25 PM
Called it.
Keep it. You’ll need it in 2009.
McCain won’t do what it takes to win. So, in Soviet United States, circa 2009, cliff walks off you.
lorien1973 on October 9, 2008 at 1:25 PM
When they buy failing mortgages from the bank, they are becoming nothing more than a shareholder. They are not “owning” the entire bank. Shareholders do not own the entire bank. What percentage of faulty mortgage loans does the bank hold in relation to the entire entity? 10%? or 80%?
your comment is not valid, and “Governments own the banks!” is a lie from the title “US government may take part ownership in banks”
wise_man on October 9, 2008 at 1:26 PM
He wants McCain to come at him directly because there’s no much insinuation going on with these charges. He wants McCain to actually come out and say what he thinks Obama’s relationship with Ayers says about Obama. OWN the charge, not have his surrogates and campaign hit Obama on it, then have McCain skirt the issue.
It’s a lose for McCain if this issue comes up in the debate Wednesday (which it will undoubtedly since Team McCain will have been hammering on it for over a week by then) because McCain hasn’t really shown why Obama’s relationship with Ayers makes him dangerous. He’s trying to say it shows poor judgment, but I think Americans have been making their own mind up about Obama’s character and judgment over the past two years, and throwing this past relationship out there to scare people without any real substance as to why it should, ain’t going to work.
They are relying too much on insinuation for this to work.
Tom_Shipley on October 9, 2008 at 1:26 PM
McCain should raise both Wright and Ayers, then pause and say that they are “troubling” relationships but concede that Obama may have seen the wisdom of his ways, then GO NUCLEAR ON ACORN.
Honestly, I would rank these things:
1. ACORN
2. Wright
3. Truth squads
4. Ayers
ACORN is what matters. It is current and speaks directly to the Obama’s willingness to use any means necessary to gain power.
Man, I’m pipped off today.
Does anyone know what Senate committee might be the one that could most successfully call for hearings on ACORN?
Y-not on October 9, 2008 at 1:26 PM
Obama has set a trap, he as a pat answer that will diffuse the claim…maybe a quote,or a quip, probably a list of people that McCain has shook hands with that were “bad” men.
Before McCain says a word, he should set the stage.
Explain that in a presidential race it is important for each to set out why they are different, what history makes them unique, that is why voting records are important, they tell the history of what a candidate will really do, Obama’s 94 no votes (in just a couple of years) on tax relief is important (let Obama state 23 times, that was over 26 years). Then he should point out that associations are important, that McCain has worked with Kennedy, Feingold, etc., and that history is important to know who you have worked with and McCain has worked across the aisle.
And then the recent associations, state that you understand over the course of decades people come in and out of your life, but in the recent past Obama has had suspect associations.
When Obama take the bait about “Ayers”, then McCain says he was talking about Dodd and Frank, but thanks for reminding us about Ayers.
right2bright on October 9, 2008 at 1:27 PM
Why not challenge him to another Townhall Mac. Right now, to address Ayers and Obama’s connections to him. Challenge him publically and call him out. He wants you to say it to his face, say it to his face.
Mr. Joe on October 9, 2008 at 1:27 PM
They need to schedule a Palin event right before the debate where you lays it all out on how big of a liar Obama is about the relationship…
Ayer’s is only going to matter if you go really deep… this “matter of judgement” crap isn’t going to cut it… better get some 527s on it… it has to be framed towards where the media and the Obama campaign admit their narratives are farked… and that the voters know too…
1. Make 527 group
2. Create ad which goes deep(connect Obama’s and Ayer’s education reform to Ayer’s talking with Chavinistas, etc, whatever, Obama associated with socialist group, Obama’s support for gay marriage in 1996, whatevers)
3. Send it to just a few tv stations
4. Wait for Obama truther brown shirts to Take Action!
5. Get instant drudge link
6. Wait for media breakthrough..
Folks, this is the cheapest way to get the things the campaign can’t talk about into the mainstream… it’s got to get done… the stuff Team McCain is putting out is weak sauce…
ninjapirate on October 9, 2008 at 1:28 PM
Step One.
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 9, 2008 at 1:28 PM
Keating 5.
Kafir on October 9, 2008 at 1:28 PM
AllahPindit, please get a real job.
Thank you.
Mcguyver on October 9, 2008 at 1:29 PM
You liberals just don’t listen, it has been stated many times, many ways of why his association is wrong.
If you haven’t seen it now, you will never see it.
Such is the way of the liberal mind, facts make them dizzy…
right2bright on October 9, 2008 at 1:29 PM
BO is probably taunting McCain so he will “say it to his face” then the Dems will go off saying how unstable and angry Mccain is…blah, blah, blah.
vcferlita on October 9, 2008 at 1:29 PM
speaking of bad mortgages
ConservativePartyNow on October 9, 2008 at 1:29 PM
And if Obama was so upset that McCain didn’t say it to his face – then why didn’t Obama bring it up. Crybaby.
wise_man on October 9, 2008 at 1:29 PM
I know it’ll never happen but:
McCain: “Why should I say it to your face? You’re just the puppet. I’ll say it to William Ayers face.”
AubieJon on October 9, 2008 at 1:30 PM
Foot in the door. Democrats play this game all the time. A series of small, seemingly rational steps then it all gets bungled up, and into the actual result they wanted.
Are you people really this blind?
lorien1973 on October 9, 2008 at 1:30 PM
Otlichno.
That was my first thought–even with McCain’s physical limitations.
baldilocks on October 9, 2008 at 1:30 PM
Ayres isn’t a factor now, eh?
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/who_wrote_dreams_from_my_fathe_1.html
After this he may be…
pseudonominus on October 9, 2008 at 1:30 PM
And if the dems say that, John McCain should come back and say that yes he is angry that the dem party, which has been in control of congress for 2 years, has done nothing about it!
ConservativePartyNow on October 9, 2008 at 1:31 PM
Also, I’ve said it before, McCain won’t “win any arguments” with just the Ayers connection. He has to show Obama’s connections with others like Rezco, Rev Wright, Raines, etc…
vcferlita on October 9, 2008 at 1:31 PM
Which Axelrod (I think?) has already repeatedly claimed McCain was not exonerated (sp?) for. Despite the records to the contrary….
World of their own, I tell you. Mental illness indeed.
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 9, 2008 at 1:31 PM
Challenging McCain’s courage may have unintended consequences. However much voters may disagree with him on issues or how he has run his campaign, his courage isn’t at question. I’d love to see him get his back up and run the table.
a capella on October 9, 2008 at 1:32 PM
Such is the way of the liberal mind…
It is no big deal because calling McCain a coward is so insanely stupid, talk about a losing statement.
Obama the brave calling McCain the coward…and which one actually defended this country, fought for this country?
That is the kind of statement that plays into McCain…imagine calling a real war hero a coward?
right2bright on October 9, 2008 at 1:32 PM
Hahaha a mad man on tv right now at the townhall meeting – mad at the socialists taking over the country.
HawaiiLwyr on October 9, 2008 at 1:33 PM
At this point I don’t even care if the Ayers issue sways voters or not. It’s important, in fact, a duty of everybody to put the information out there about Obama’s association with a known and unrepentant terrorist. If a majority of the electorate is still willing to vote him in as president knowing full well that he’s buddy buddy with a terrorist-marxist like Ayers, then they deserve the pain they will get from his presidency and they will have nobody to blame but themselves.
Some lessons are only learned the hard way. It just sucks that some of us who don’t need to learn it will feel the pain as well.
thirteen28 on October 9, 2008 at 1:33 PM
Or he may figure, correctly, that he’s not forcing anything, because he knows McCain’s isn’t going to get up in his face.
As it happens, I don’t think this is an especially helpful line of attack anyway. (It certainly doesn’t tell us anything about McCain’s plan for our future.) But McCain is not going to get in Obama’s face; he’s had two chances to do it, and he’s passed both times.
paul006 on October 9, 2008 at 1:33 PM
There is a simple answer to Allahpundit’s question that is close to (a). Obama is an arrogant creep who knows he is up against a genuine war hero. So Obama engages in what on the basketball court is called “trash talk.” The problem with engaging in “trash talk” is that your opponent thinks about how to make you look foolish. That is one of John McCain’s challenges for next Wednesday’s debate. This issue does hurt Obama badly because it points to Obama being a radical socialist. If John McCain confronts Obama in a way that is smart and fact-based, then McCain wins. No way then for Deemocrats to whine that McCain is dealing with the Ayres matter instead of the issues. McCain then must keep up the confrontation about how Obama’s Democrat allies are responsible for the current financial crisis and how Obama did nothing to avert the crisis — in contrast to John McCain and President Bush.
Phil Byler on October 9, 2008 at 1:33 PM
McCain To Obama: Which Face?
Dr Evil on October 9, 2008 at 1:33 PM
Are you blind, intentionally ignorant, or just plain stupid? Why Ayers and Obama’s relationship makes him dangerous is obvious except for those who will not look.
Or is this where you join the rest of your lefty friends in chanting “DON’T CARE!!! DON’T CARE!!! DON’T CARE!!!”?
Disgusting.
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 9, 2008 at 1:34 PM
A moment ago, McCain named Barney Frank and Chris Dobbs!
debg on October 9, 2008 at 1:35 PM
+1, smirk-worthy
Oh, and… ACORN, ACORN, ACORN!
Y-not on October 9, 2008 at 1:35 PM
Grue in the Attic on October 9, 2008 at 1:34 PM
I notice you say it’s obvious, but don’t say why it is… please state the reason.
Tom_Shipley on October 9, 2008 at 1:36 PM
A little OT but Rush just had a caller ask why the Democrats want the American Dream to have a limit of $250,000. What a great line!
ctmom on October 9, 2008 at 1:36 PM
*falls off his chair*
Really?
lorien1973 on October 9, 2008 at 1:36 PM
The greatest story never told….yet.
Let’s roll!
ex-Democrat on October 9, 2008 at 1:36 PM
Are you serious? Where? Link or some proof, stat!!
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 9, 2008 at 1:36 PM
Kensington on October 9, 2008 at 1:25 PM
Personally, I don’t think anything is going to change. There is an old expression, to paraphrase…
If you want someone to see things your way, grab them by the wallet.
Right now, BO owns this position which is why he’ll win this election easily.
swami on October 9, 2008 at 1:37 PM
It was live from the rally.
debg on October 9, 2008 at 1:37 PM
McCain needs to ask Obambi which of his multiple faces is he is expected to say it to?
The Obambi face which sidled up to William Ayers or the face that claims they hardly know each other? Or Obama’s face that attends Revrum Wright’s church for 20 years or Obamba’s revised face that Wright’s isn’t the church he thought he knew. That’s four Obama faces already on only two issues out of dozens. Which of Obama’s hundreds of two-faced postures on as many issues is Obambi demanding McCain address? Can it be done without a hall of mirrors to cover all of Obambi’s identity flip-flops simultaneously?
viking01 on October 9, 2008 at 1:38 PM
At this point I don’t even care if the Ayers issue sways voters or not. It’s important, in fact, a duty of everybody to put the information out there about Obama’s association with a known and unrepentant terrorist.
I love the fact that this stuff about Ayers has been out there for MONTHS. But only now, that the election is less than a month away and McCain is losing ground in the polls has it become such a dire association.
Tom_Shipley on October 9, 2008 at 1:38 PM
Fine, I’ll explain what should be readily understandable.
AYERS IS A TERRORIST. He is also someone with whom Obama has been close since his political career launched. He is one of Obama’s closest mentors.
THIS will be the kind of person Obama will put in lifetime government positions where votes cannot reach them.
Furthermore, HE’S A BLOODY TERRORIST!! Do we want him – and those close to him, LIKE OBAMA – close to the country’s heart and the secrets held there, stuff that only the president and his circle can access?
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 9, 2008 at 1:39 PM
Question. If my sister, who happened to be 9 when the towers were attacked by Bin Laden’s crew, hung out with Bin Laden in her 30’s and started her political career in his cave. And then ran for president… shed be cool right? No problems, cause Osama Bin Laden did all this stuff when she was young, 9 years old, so… no big deal then. Right? Cool. Just looking out for her just in case. (rolls eyes)
Cardiganfox on October 9, 2008 at 1:39 PM
McCain: “Say it to your face? Surely you have a more adult response to my Ayers ad than “say it to my face. This isn’t a school yard brawl, Senator. It’s a contest for the people of the USA to decide who they want to lead them for the next four years.”
baldilocks on October 9, 2008 at 1:40 PM
We’ve been saying it for months… McCain and crew have just been idiots and haven’t been relaying the message. If we lose, this kind of thing is what will cost us the win.
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 9, 2008 at 1:40 PM
The editing of this interview was way more professional than that between Gibson and Palin. And how come Gibson didn’t press him on the issue? He seemed to enjoy repeating questions and pressing issues with Palin. And where are the grandfatherly glasses perched on the tip of his nose? Why didn’t he ask Obama about his qualifications to be President?
DWSC on October 9, 2008 at 1:40 PM
Even better. Heh.
baldilocks on October 9, 2008 at 1:40 PM
It is the end of the election…He knows he can look tough in some peoples mind and make McCain look like a desperate man.
tomas on October 9, 2008 at 1:41 PM
To which McCain can respond “you know that your supporter John Glenn and I were exonerated. I resent you trying to birsmirch Sen. Glenns reputation”.
ctmom on October 9, 2008 at 1:41 PM
BO: “I’ve campaigned in, uh, 49 states.” Only 8 left to go in the next three weeks. I think you can cover that, Barry.
txsurveyor on October 9, 2008 at 1:42 PM
If you think McCain is going to get in Obama’s face about anything- you’re nuts. Here is a summary of Pete “Maverick” Mitchell’s performance in the campaign:
Valiant on October 9, 2008 at 1:43 PM
Imus in The Morning had Kinky Friedman on this morning and he made some interesting observations about Tony Rezko being born in Syria..just a nice Italian boy:) and where is Obama’s campaign money coming in from? Is there money pouring in from Foreigners, how much? Listen to Kinky.
http://www.wabcradio.com/Article.asp?id=926923&spid=22807
Dr Evil on October 9, 2008 at 1:43 PM
Alan Colmes said on last night’s H&C the “say it to his face” thing….I thought it was Alan just being stupid, but sounds like it’s the official Obambi talking point.
Is it just me, or does this sounds like a Chicago thug?
Let’s roll!
ex-Democrat on October 9, 2008 at 1:43 PM
Excellent idea.
wise_man on October 9, 2008 at 1:44 PM
Obama already lost that battle.
http://buzzfeed.com/scott/obamas-bike-helmet
ctmom on October 9, 2008 at 1:44 PM
Far from the end. It must be depressing for you to never be taken seriously because nothing intelligent ever comes out of that nasty leak below your nose.
AubieJon on October 9, 2008 at 1:44 PM
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