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WSJ: 1 in 6 homeowners upside down, and growing

posted at 3:00 pm on October 8, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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The Wall Street Journal paints a grim picture of the housing market today in its analysis of debt-to-equity ratios in the residential market.  The rate of homeowners who owe more than their equity has increased to 16% after a 30% decline in housing values.  That’s almost three times the rate in 2007 and four times the rate in 2006, and it’s likely to keep going higher:

About 75.5 million U.S. households own the homes they live in. After a housing slump that has pushed values down 30% in some areas, roughly 12 million households, or 16%, owe more than their homes are worth, according to Moody’s Economy.com.

The comparable figures were roughly 4% under water in 2006 and 6% last year, says the firm’s chief economist, Mark Zandi, who adds that “it is very possible that there will ultimately be more homeowners under water in this period than any time in our history.”

Among people who bought within the past five years, it’s worse: 29% are under water on their mortgages, according to an estimate by real-estate Web site Zillow.com.

The majority of homeowners still have equity, and even among those who don’t, many continue to make their mortgage payments on time. The financial-bailout legislation could at least “keep things from getting much worse” by helping banks avoid the need to tighten credit further, says Celia Chen, director of housing economics at Economy.com. Still, she expects housing credit to remain tight and home prices to decline in much of the country for another year or so.

The problem is more regional than national, at least at the extremes.  Texas and North Carolina are experiencing a slight increase in home values, at least at the moment.  The hardest-hit areas are Florida, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and San Diego.  Percentages of under-water homeowners who bought in the last 5 years go over 50% in San Diego and Las Vegas, and above 40% in Miami and Phoenix.

What will this mean?  The WSJ warns that a consumer-spending freeze is coming that will slam the economy.  Right now, lenders aren’t interested in selling car loans or credit on other big-ticket items, and people aren’t likely to buy them anyway.  The decline in sales will result in plenty of lost jobs, which will in turn hit the residential housing market all over again.  Ad sales will drop as consumer spending declines, meaning that many who rely on that for revenue will find themselves gasping for resources.  And of course, as foreclosures mount, they will deepen the decline on home values.

On a brighter note, the decline has brought home prices much closer to their historical relationship to income.  As that point approaches, housing prices should hit bottom and start rebounding, assuming that a massive load of foreclosures doesn’t create its own revaluation.

In looking at the WSJ’s map, in fact, the problem appears mostly concentrated in Florida and California, with hot spots in Green Bay, up the West Coast, and to a less intense extent on the northern East Coast.  What does that mean politically?  Does it mean that the fallout from the housing bubble can be quarantined to these regions?  Interesting questions, with no real answers at the moment.


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Comment pages: 1 2

this site needs image tags like “dude” and “shocka” etc.
several come to mind when i read this…

Drunk Report on October 8, 2008 at 3:02 PM

If you’re already a homeowner, this is the drain in the drop.

If you WANT to become a homeowner, now (or in the relatively short future, before recovery begins) is indeed the time to buy.

Every cloud has a silver lining, it seems.

*eats*

Grue in the Attic on October 8, 2008 at 3:02 PM

I blame California. And Bush. I always blame Bush, no matter what’s wrong.

BadgerHawk on October 8, 2008 at 3:03 PM

Bailouts. Bailouts. Get your bailouts here.

In looking at the WSJ’s map, in fact, the problem appears mostly concentrated in Florida and California

*cough* investment houses *cough* moral hazard *cough*

Can I explain this more simply?

There are entire housing communities here in my area, where no one lives. People bought up all the houses for investments. Sit on them for a few years and cash in.

ZOMG! It’s not paying off right now. We’re losing money. Yes. And?

Free market does not guarantee you’ll win every time. Government should not either.

lorien1973 on October 8, 2008 at 3:04 PM

And there are many questions within those questions.

Connie on October 8, 2008 at 3:05 PM

I said we should have bought these loans up last year before it got bad. We could have spend $100billion got the housing cost stabilized. but no the let them eat cake crowd said “socialism” Now it is too late. Now it is $1 trillion we are spending and growing. People will walk away from loans. It is just what you have to do. Those pure “free marketers” never factor in that in a democracy people vote.

unseen on October 8, 2008 at 3:07 PM

The rate of homeowners who owe more than their equity has increased to 16%

Whoo-hoo! I’m in the club!

:(

pseudonominus on October 8, 2008 at 3:09 PM

Gee, could the fact that no-one had to poney up the 20% down for the home loan have anything to do with this?????

pherrman on October 8, 2008 at 3:10 PM

Duh. I can’t count how many times I watched shows on HGTV over the past few years in which they were talking about home prices and I just shook my head in wonder that anyone — ANYONE — couldn’t see the disaster coming. A million bucks for a tiny condo in downtown San Diego? Of course that bubble was going to burst. Can’t believe buyers borrowed that much money. Can’t believe lenders lent it.

And now we here in Texas are dealing with the flood of refugees. At least our real estate values are holding pretty steady because of it, though. But the job market is getting a bit tougher with so many new Californians and Floridians flowing into our four largest cities.

aero on October 8, 2008 at 3:10 PM

Very interesting….

All the major cities listed are areas where the Democrats dominate… and have for many many years.

Romeo13 on October 8, 2008 at 3:10 PM

Ad sales will drop as consumer spending declines, meaning that many who rely on that for revenue will find themselves gasping for resources.

Did someone put a pox on the New York times?

I blame Karl Rove.

Mcguyver on October 8, 2008 at 3:11 PM

BadgerHawk on October 8, 2008 at 3:03 PM

Come on Badger, that is a little to reflexive. In this instance even Bush had the sense to start questioning the FM/FM oversight and management.

Blame is squarely on the agenda driven Dems. This is the most truth laden line of though Rush has been using lately….

Dems will investigate the crap out of anything if there is the possibility of a republican involvement. The lack of calls for investigation of congress speak loudly as to who is involved.

Think about it. In an election year, if Pelosi/Reid had a republican to tie this to, wouldn’t they be doing it?

Marine_Bio on October 8, 2008 at 3:11 PM

lorien1973 on October 8, 2008 at 3:04 PM

Imagine how bad the traffic would be if people did live there.

BadgerHawk on October 8, 2008 at 3:12 PM

New Party. Obama is a socialist mole.

http://minx.cc/?post=275145

unseen on October 8, 2008 at 3:12 PM

In looking at the WSJ’s map, in fact, the problem appears mostly concentrated in Florida and California

In 1994, the average cost of permits to build a house in California was $26,000. Florida is about as bad now. With the help of environmentalists run amok, it’s now onder these are the hot spots now for being upside down..

AubieJon on October 8, 2008 at 3:12 PM

I think I’ll take a nap.

If it is still light outside when I wake up, perhaps I’ll go kill another tree.

Or maybe just fix pizza.

rockhauler on October 8, 2008 at 3:12 PM

more on Obama and his socialism:

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/10/archives_prove_obama_was_a_new.html

unseen on October 8, 2008 at 3:12 PM

70% of foreclosures are in either CA or FL. Can the effect be contained to regional impact? No, Congress and the bailout rescue plan already proved that.

Spirit of 1776 on October 8, 2008 at 3:13 PM

All the major cities listed are areas where the Democrats dominate… and have for many many years.

Romeo13 on October 8, 2008 at 3:10 PM

Yep, and the states asking for separate bailouts are blue as well.

Vashta.Nerada on October 8, 2008 at 3:13 PM

no wonder (fixed it)

AubieJon on October 8, 2008 at 3:14 PM

Marine_Bio on October 8, 2008 at 3:11 PM

I don’t know how often you read the comments sections, but I wasn’t even close to serious in my earlier statement. About half of my comments make little or no sense at all.

Whoo-hoo! I’m in the club!

:(

pseudonominus on October 8, 2008 at 3:09 PM

At least you have a positive spirit.

BadgerHawk on October 8, 2008 at 3:14 PM

Free market does not guarantee you’ll win every time. Government should not either.

lorien1973 on October 8, 2008 at 3:04 PM

Sometimes you are the bug……

…and then sometimes, you are the windshield.

Mcguyver on October 8, 2008 at 3:14 PM

Do you know how fast and high equity rose in 04 to 05? I know I’ve told this story here several times, but when my wife and I were looking for a home in SW and Central FL back in 04, all we could afford was a trailer…not a double wide…seriously. It cost $145,000, and it wasn’t even new. So we moved to Texas. We moved away from all my family, with new grandkids, rugged individualism, we knew nobody out here, we have no family in Texas, had to find a new Church, make new friends, etc. We didn’t wait for Paulson, or McCain, or any other Federal program to ensure that we could stay in a house we couldn’t afford. That’s why I’m so pissed with all this, and is why I think people should lose their homes. Call it mean, I call it reality. Man this whole debate has frosted me, because when my wife and I took personal responsibility for our own situation, others didn’t; and now I have to pay for them with this 700 billion bailout and whatever else they cook up as well!

Weight of Glory on October 8, 2008 at 3:14 PM

Texas and North Carolina are experiencing a slight increase in home values, at least at the moment.

In the case of Texas, you can thank the vast majority Republican government who has been fiscally very responsible.

RushBaby on October 8, 2008 at 3:16 PM

Im upside down on 1 house. Bought it for 250 its worth around 210 now and positive on another; bought for 140 its worth 193

offroadaz on October 8, 2008 at 3:16 PM

If you WANT to become a homeowner, now (or in the relatively short future, before recovery begins) is indeed the time to buy.

Grue in the Attic on October 8, 2008 at 3:02 PM

Did, two weeks ago.

I’ve also discovered that my ex improperly claimed our eldest daughter as a deduction for the last two years. The letter to the IRS goes out in the morning.

Life’s good.

MarkTheGreat on October 8, 2008 at 3:18 PM

“BUSH LIED, THE ECONOMY DIED!!!”

no wait,

“CHENEY AND HIS EVIL FRIENDS!!!!!”

aw, alright,

“IT’S THAT TURD BURGLAR BARNEY FRANK’S FAULT!!!!!!!!!”

pherrman on October 8, 2008 at 3:18 PM

I’d like to see the math on that projection before I believe it is correct. Actually, I call BS on that math without even seeing it.

David in ATL on October 8, 2008 at 3:19 PM

In the case of Texas, you can thank the vast majority Republican government who has been fiscally very responsible.

RushBaby on October 8, 2008 at 3:16 PM

North Carolina is more a result of long term thinking on the part of gov 20-30 years ago. building research triangle park, its colleges and universites and of course the banking industry in Charlotte over the last decade. I think the bust of the banks will impact NC in the coming years.

unseen on October 8, 2008 at 3:19 PM

Look on the bright side.

Obama’s brother’s mud hut hasn’t lost a penny in value. Maybe that’s The One’s plan for America …. a chicken in every pot and a mud hut in every yard. Want solutions to our economic woes? Look to Africa.

fogw on October 8, 2008 at 3:20 PM

Since Housing is such a huge chunk of one’s finances, this is a pretty big deal.

jp on October 8, 2008 at 3:20 PM

The current value of your home, much like owning stocks, doesn’t really mean much if you don’t plan to sell. If you plan on staying in your home then you will likely recover the paper loss in coming years. I always have to take my dad to task when he gripes about losing money on his 401k. I ask him if he’s retiring tomorrow or any time soon. When he says no I tell him that he hasn’t “lost” anything. He doesn’t call me when he has a paper gain.

DerKrieger on October 8, 2008 at 3:21 PM

Most houses are still grossly overpriced – to see what a house is REALLY worth, take the price in 1998 and add 30% to it.

LODGE4 on October 8, 2008 at 3:21 PM

Upside down in a mortgage is not the same as ‘in danger’ – people need to treat houses like places to live instead of investments. Three quarters of car buyers are upside down, but since cars are treated as cars, nobody panics. If you want to worry, worry about ARM holders instead.

Vashta.Nerada on October 8, 2008 at 3:22 PM

I’m confused on how and why homeowners are growing upside-down??

/sarc or whatever fits

Religious_Zealot on October 8, 2008 at 3:22 PM

I am so happy and lucky to say I am definitely not upside down on my mortgage.

Oink on October 8, 2008 at 3:23 PM

Yikes…1 in 6. I’m ok on my house (me and hubby live very simple, modest lives…) so we owe only about half what the house is worth.

My concern is inflation…will the savings I have worked for and squirreled away by being responsible and doing with less all these years diminish into near worthlessness?

JustTruth101 on October 8, 2008 at 3:23 PM

I bought during the 98 downturn, so I did well in that market, and owe half of my market value today. Those of you on the sidelines should be looking for a house.

Vashta.Nerada on October 8, 2008 at 3:26 PM

Grim… yes.

petunia on October 8, 2008 at 3:27 PM

If car sales take a big enough hit, it could spell the end of the unionized US automakers (schadenfreude).
I wonder if this has anything to do with why McCain pulled out of Michigan?

Count to 10 on October 8, 2008 at 3:28 PM

Interesting…

Douglas country Colorado, where I live…

ONLY 1 in every 681 Homes is in foreclosure…

Romeo13 on October 8, 2008 at 3:29 PM

I bought during the 98 downturn, so I did well in that market, and owe half of my market value today. Those of you on the sidelines should be looking for a house.

Vashta.Nerada on October 8, 2008 at 3:26 PM

I’d consider it if I knew what state I would be living in in three years. My current job definitively ends in three years or less.

Count to 10 on October 8, 2008 at 3:30 PM

Upside down in a mortgage is not the same as ‘in danger’ – people need to treat houses like places to live instead of investments. Three quarters of car buyers are upside down, but since cars are treated as cars, nobody panics. If you want to worry, worry about ARM holders instead.

Vashta.Nerada on October 8, 2008 at 3:22 PM

Yeah, well I’m pretty steamed that I didn’t get a new car last year because I have a Yukon and it’s blue book dropped like a rock. But I guess I’m keeping it even though my kids have mostly gone. It is sure a nice ride. Maybe gas prices will be better for a while.

petunia on October 8, 2008 at 3:30 PM

NEW PARTY NEW PARTY. OBAMA MEMBER of socialist/communist party in the 1990’s

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/10/archives_prove_obama_was_a_new.html

http://minx.cc/?post=275145

unseen on October 8, 2008 at 3:33 PM

I have a Yukon and it’s blue book dropped like a rock. But I guess I’m keeping it even though my kids have mostly gone. It is sure a nice ride. Maybe gas prices will be better for a while.

petunia on October 8, 2008 at 3:30 PM

I’ve got a Tahoe – no intent to sell it. Gasoline will go down further, no worries.

Vashta.Nerada on October 8, 2008 at 3:33 PM

For every home that someone loses because they rolled the dice and lost, someone else will buy it at a bargin and make money, maybe even renting it back to one of the losers. People still have to live someplace, and the banks are not going to burn those houses down. So the housing adjustment that was inevitable the moment the feds started to push banks to make loans to people who could not afford them, will benefit about as many people as it hurts. So how about the feds making it easier for people who have a litle money to buy up those homes that are starting to flood the market? I’d consider pulling my money out of stocks and putting it into houses for rentals as a reasonable way to stop the loss in stock, even more so with some incentive from the feds that would cost a fraction of the bailout. Didn’t anyone in government take econ 101?

MikeA on October 8, 2008 at 3:36 PM

There are advantages to living in the midwest. Home prices never “bubbled” here and continue to increase in value 4-5% per year. You can buy a beautiful 3 bedroom 3 bath house here for $300,000, and that is in an upscale neighborhood. If your are on a budget, you can get 3 bed/2 bath for $150,000.

bopbottle on October 8, 2008 at 3:38 PM

MikeA on October 8, 2008 at 3:36 PM

Concur… a large part of the housing problem was we just plain overbuilt.

When a NON expanding population is starting 2 million new homes a MONTH, its unsustainable. We were not replacing houses, we were adding to the overall housing pool…

Romeo13 on October 8, 2008 at 3:40 PM

So, if you are willing to write-off FL along with some big Blue States, promising people that folks will have to pay for their own folly and not be bailed out by those who acted responsibly wouldn’t hurt many in the red areas and might swing some in the blues-purple if you point out that there will be bargains galore.

OBQuiet on October 8, 2008 at 3:40 PM

I’d consider pulling my money out of stocks and putting it into houses for rentals as a reasonable way to stop the loss in stock, even more so with some incentive from the feds that would cost a fraction of the bailout. Didn’t anyone in government take econ 101?

MikeA on October 8, 2008 at 3:36 PM

Say, you don’t suppose that is why the stock market has been tanking, do you?

Count to 10 on October 8, 2008 at 3:40 PM

The housing market is really bad, but this is not an urban area and that has a lot to do with it.

I hope that as gas prices come down people will spend that money on other things, that might help offset some of the losses from the housing industry.

Terrye on October 8, 2008 at 3:40 PM

Very interesting….

All the major cities listed are areas where the Democrats dominate… and have for many many years.

Romeo13 on October 8, 2008 at 3:10 PM

Oh give me a friggin’ break! Blame the Democrats? Are you kidding?

The Democrats weren’t selling crappy mortgages to people. The Democrats weren’t telling someone who could only afford a $100k house to buy that $300k house.

America: Put. Down. Your. Credit. Card(s). Wake up.

thePajamaPundit on October 8, 2008 at 3:42 PM

There are advantages to living in the midwest. Home prices never “bubbled” here and continue to increase in value 4-5% per year. You can buy a beautiful 3 bedroom 3 bath house here for $300,000, and that is in an upscale neighborhood. If your are on a budget, you can get 3 bed/2 bath for $150,000.

bopbottle on October 8, 2008 at 3:38 PM

Good grief – in Texas, $300,000 gets you at least a 5 bedroom mcmansion.

Vashta.Nerada on October 8, 2008 at 3:42 PM

Having negative equity in a house (owing more than the house is worth) is only a problem if either (1) the borrower can’t make the payments or (2) the homeowner needs to move. A homeowner with a fixed-rate mortgage and a secure job, even with negative equity, can just make his/her payments and wait it out until home prices go back up. With the income-tax deductions for mortgage interest and property taxes, it’s still cheaper than renting.

The flip-side of this is that 84% of homeowners have POSITIVE equity in their homes. People who bought their homes 10 or more years ago with fixed-rate mortgages have probably paid off a significant part of their principal, and probably bought at prices lower than today’s prices, and have LOTS of equity!

The crucial question is not how many homeowners have negative equity, but how many can’t afford their payments, and risk foreclosure. If there are lots of those with ARM’s out there, then McCain’s plan to renegotiate their loans down to the homes’ current value makes lots of sense.

There will always be cycles in the real-estate market, and wise buyers buy in the troughs and sell in the crests. Unfortunately, every new generation has its share of suckers who never learned what “Caveat Emptor” means until it’s too late. If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

Advice to anyone under 30 wanting to buy a house: ask Mom and Dad what they think. They’ve probably seen a few of these cycles, and could save you from an expensive mistake!

Steve Z on October 8, 2008 at 3:43 PM

You know, this is interesting. I recently got married, we are just starting out. We never even considered buying, since we don’t have the credit or income yet.

I mean, I got a decent rental deal, but it would be nice to own a home. Is it hopeless for me? I don’t think the housing bubble has really popped here yet. Lots of homes for sale, but the prices haven’t dropped much. Guess I’ll try for next year?

Or should I just keep tossing my rental money away?

Vanceone on October 8, 2008 at 3:44 PM

Count to 10 on October 8, 2008 at 3:40 PM

My guess on the stock market? Foreign investment is pulling out.

Just like when American banks pulled out of Germany pre WWII which caused German banks to collapse, having too much foreign investment in your economy is a recipie for disaster.

Folks are NOT bailing on their 401Ks… we’re seeing the big players in the market play this out.

Romeo13 on October 8, 2008 at 3:44 PM

bopbottle on October 8, 2008 at 3:38 PM

Depends, does MN count as midwest? Neighbors just sold their five year old house because of a job move; bought for $350,000, sold for $280,000.

I couldn’t sell my house if I wanted to, not without taking a huge bath.

Bishop on October 8, 2008 at 3:46 PM

I am sorry, I am calling BS on all this stuff.

I live in Louisiana, and home prices are still going up.

Can someone point me to the areas where home prices have just plummeted?

I have been looking for land and cant find an acre for less then $10K. A year ago, it might have been half that.

Its time they told us who is the 1 in 6 they are refering to.

TheHat on October 8, 2008 at 3:46 PM

Or should I just keep tossing my rental money away?

Vanceone on October 8, 2008 at 3:44 PM

Depends on where you live. If housing prices in your area went up over 30% or more in the past two years, you might want to wait.

Vashta.Nerada on October 8, 2008 at 3:46 PM

The Democrats weren’t selling crappy mortgages to people. The Democrats weren’t telling someone who could only afford a $100k house to buy that $300k house.

America: Put. Down. Your. Credit. Card(s). Wake up.

thePajamaPundit on October 8, 2008 at 3:42 PM

They weren’t?
Where’s the /s tag?

Count to 10 on October 8, 2008 at 3:46 PM

That being said, my city is still pretending my house is worth near $400k for tax purposes.

Bishop on October 8, 2008 at 3:47 PM

My concern is inflation…will the savings I have worked for and squirreled away by being responsible and doing with less all these years diminish into near worthlessness?

JustTruth101 on October 8, 2008 at 3:23 PM

Not to worry. Depressions are generally deflationary. You’ll be worth more in purchasing-parity terms.

DarkCurrent on October 8, 2008 at 3:47 PM

Bullshit scare statistic for political purposes.

Next.

LimeyGeek on October 8, 2008 at 3:48 PM

thePajamaPundit on October 8, 2008 at 3:42 PM

It was an observation, I didn’t comment on cause, or effect.

But it is very interesting that here in Colorado, as the maps show, the places with the most upside down mortgages are in the Democrat controlled areas of the state…

Lifestyle? Philosophy? Just City living? Ethnic makeup? Don’t know, but it is an interesting Co Inky Dink.

Romeo13 on October 8, 2008 at 3:48 PM

thePajamaPundit on October 8, 2008 at 3:42 PM

You might want to look up the Community Reinvestment Act. Once you read it, you can apologize on this blog or yours.

Vashta.Nerada on October 8, 2008 at 3:48 PM

Romeo13 on October 8, 2008 at 3:44 PM

You’re probably right, but I couldn’t resist jumping on the point. If there were a substantial number of people pulling money out of stocks to buy bargain foreclosed houses, it would push the market down.
Have houses and stocks lost about the same % of value?

Count to 10 on October 8, 2008 at 3:50 PM

I’ve got a Tahoe – no intent to sell it. Gasoline will go down further, no worries.
Vashta.Nerada on October 8, 2008 at 3:33 PM

May I join that club, I just paid off my 2005 Yukon XL. I have made huge adjustments in my driving habits (better errand management, use a scooter for local trips, motorcycle when I can) and have seen a nice lowering in my gas usage.

Bishop on October 8, 2008 at 3:50 PM

Does it mean that the fallout from the housing bubble can be quarantined to these regions? Interesting questions, with no real answers at the moment.

The fallout will hit the entire economy unless we start supplying our country with cheap energy. In that case the fallout will be regional.

Californians will go thorough a much needed catharsis that will divorce them from bad politicians and bad policy. No matter how pro illegal Hispanics and law makers and rich liberals are, when there is no money to go around the most ardent liberal will be forced to accept conservative reforms. The tech bubble recession lasted two years it could be much much worse for California this time. The last budget passed with an increase in corporate taxes. The same formula that sparked the last recession except now the bubble that is popping is much, much larger.

Theworldisnotenough on October 8, 2008 at 3:50 PM

bought during the 98 downturn, so I did well in that market, and owe half of my market value today. Those of you on the sidelines should be looking for a house.

Vashta.Nerada on October 8, 2008 at 3:26 PM

I bought in 1997, and my home value is probably about 50% above when I bought it, and more than twice the principal on the mortgage. It really depends on where and when you bought. Here in CT, only a few For Sale signs, no foreclosures in the neighborhood. Everybody is just waiting it out.

Steve Z on October 8, 2008 at 3:50 PM

There are advantages to living in the midwest. Home prices never “bubbled” here and continue to increase in value 4-5% per year. You can buy a beautiful 3 bedroom 3 bath house here for $300,000, and that is in an upscale neighborhood. If your are on a budget, you can get 3 bed/2 bath for $150,000.

bopbottle on October 8, 2008 at 3:38 PM

I just bought a bedroom, 2 1/2 bath home, 2 car garage and a finished basement with two rooms that could be easily converted to bedrooms and the half bath could be converted to a full bath for less than $500. 1800 sq. ft. on a little more than 1/4 acre with mature elm trees. For $155,000.

I’m also less than 2 miles from work.

MarkTheGreat on October 8, 2008 at 3:55 PM

Democrats finally get their wish, destroying the wealth of the American people.

A friend of mine just walked on her condominium, she had no way to make any money on it, she was upside down near $70k, losing her $30,000 down payment, all she had saved since graduating college. Her lawyer told her to just pack up and move out.

tarpon on October 8, 2008 at 3:55 PM

Meh. They tell me that a landslide might be good for the GOP and that a market shakeout’s not necessarily a bad thing.

Sounds like hydroponics.

Dan Collins on October 8, 2008 at 3:56 PM

Everybody is just waiting it out.
Steve Z on October 8, 2008 at 3:50 PM

My ‘hood is fairly new and we have seen a fair amount of foreclosures in the areas that consist of what might be considered starter homes; the bigger houses have stayed the same.

I don’t want to point fingers, but many of those foreclosures were the properties where the yard always looked like hell, beat-up cars were parked in the driveway and junk was piled on the sides.

Bishop on October 8, 2008 at 3:56 PM

The Democrats weren’t selling crappy mortgages to people. The Democrats weren’t telling someone who could only afford a $100k house to buy that $300k house.

They weren’t? What do you think CRA was all about?

MarkTheGreat on October 8, 2008 at 3:57 PM

We bought our house 25 years ago, added on, remolded, and have a nice place here in fly over country. No plans to move, so this is simply interesting reading for me.

But, and there is always a but, I am planning on retiring in 3 months and now have the idiot politicians to blame for a decreased retirement nest egg.

And the way they are bumbling about, it is only going to get worse, hopefully not to the point where I have to postpone retirement. If I could wave a magic wand, every sitting congressman and senator would be gone and we would start over again.

kam582 on October 8, 2008 at 3:57 PM

Pajamaspundit:

Wellactually the Democrats were selling crappy mortgages:

Marion Sandlers is a big contributors to the Democratic Party and other corrupt leftwing organizations. They owned a mortage company called Golden West. Golden West specialized in subprime mortgages. In 2006 Sandlers sold their company with its bad paper to Wachovia. That’s why Wachovia doesn’t exist anymore.

Lehman Brothers also had a lot of subprime paper. If you look at their political contributions you will find them to be almost exclusively to the Democratic Party and its candidates. Lehman is no more.

Of course the GSEs were also home to the Democratic Party cronies. We all know how much money they used to by the Dodd, Frank and Obama. They have been nationalized.

Get the pattern?

jerryofva on October 8, 2008 at 3:59 PM

I blame California. And Bush. I always blame Bush, no matter what’s wrong.

BadgerHawk on October 8, 2008 at 3:03 PM

I always blame global warming climate change.
Sound the alarm! We need more GREEEEEEEN homes.

Brat on October 8, 2008 at 4:00 PM

It’s not just the number of homes built, it’s the size of many of them. The new houses here are just huge. Much bigger than the slighly older ones. People are going to discover they can make do with less space and some of those McMansions are going to sit empty.

MamaAJ on October 8, 2008 at 4:00 PM

kam582 on October 8, 2008 at 3:57 PM

It can get a lot worse. My area has seen quite a few shuttered homes broken into and the copper plumbing and wiring stripped out. There are also more incidents of fake salespeople selling whatever just for the chance to size up the home and the homeowners for burglary or worse; already gotten fliers from the sheriff warning us about it.

Bishop on October 8, 2008 at 4:01 PM

Tarpon:

Was your friend able to make her payments? If she could and she followed her lawyers advice I hope her credit rating is ruined for life.

jerryofva on October 8, 2008 at 4:01 PM

And the way they are bumbling about, it is only going to get worse, hopefully not to the point where I have to postpone retirement. If I could wave a magic wand, every sitting congressman and senator would be gone and we would start over again.

kam582 on October 8, 2008 at 3:57 PM

You are one of the people I worry about. I have a decade or more to make back my investments; you don’t.

Vashta.Nerada on October 8, 2008 at 4:02 PM

Bishop on October 8, 2008 at 4:01 PM

See, you should have listened to us and moved into that bunker.

phronesis on October 8, 2008 at 4:02 PM

MarkTheGreat on October 8, 2008 at 3:55 PM

Just bought 2 acres, 4 floors, 2500 sq ft (expandable to 3500), 2 bath, 3 bedroom, federal-era farmhouse – $150k

Yeah, it was beat up, but I’m laughing all the way to the bank.

LimeyGeek on October 8, 2008 at 4:02 PM

I just bought a bedroom, 2 1/2 bath home, 2 car garage

Only one bedroom? Odd house. :-)

Bishop on October 8, 2008 at 4:02 PM

I always blame global warming climate change.
Sound the alarm! We need more GREEEEEEEN homes.

Brat on October 8, 2008 at 4:00 PM

Since Bush is responsible for “climate change”, then you are still blaming Bush.

MarkTheGreat on October 8, 2008 at 4:03 PM

See, you should have listened to us and moved into that bunker.
phronesis on October 8, 2008 at 4:02 PM

I know I know, quit rubbing it in. As soon as I get the blacklight posters hung and the purple shag on the wall, it will be ready for occupancy.

The minefield will take a bit more time, damn neighborhood cats keep setting off the claymores.

Bishop on October 8, 2008 at 4:04 PM

oops, that’s a three bedroom house.

MarkTheGreat on October 8, 2008 at 4:04 PM

In the older areas of town, I have seen a number of one and two bedroom houses. Probably around 800 square feet.

MarkTheGreat on October 8, 2008 at 4:05 PM

MamaAJ on October 8, 2008 at 4:00 PM

Amen, mama. My husband and I have what I consider a modest, 30yr.old, two story 4BR/2.5Bath, no basement, approx. 3200 sq.ft., no kids. Extra bedrooms are for guests/an office. We’ve been in it 10 years but now I am ready to downsize to a small ranch with a basement!

I don’t know how people can keep up just the cleaning and maintenance of those McMansions. Hmmm, I guess they didn’t consider those would be costs additional to the mortgage they already couldn’t afford.

Brat on October 8, 2008 at 4:05 PM

Can someone point me to the areas where home prices have just plummeted?
TheHat on October 8, 2008 at 3:46 PM

Southern California, for one, particularly eastern edge of Los Angeles (especially San Bernardino county where the houses are affordable; those poor folks have insanely long commutes into LA, it’s quite a sacrifice for them to live out there).

We bought in Los Angeles County in Jan 2007 (relocated from Indiana) and have watched our house value drop about 10-15%. We qualified for a much larger mortgage but (wisely) bought a house 2/3rds the size of our Indiana house (at 2.5 times the price).

I think we’ll be ok — great credit rating, live within our means, don’t plan to sell for several years — but it is a scary sensation. Houses in LA county have held their value much better than in San Bernardino County — and our community is considered to be very desirable for families — but we would be in big trouble if my husband lost his job or we had to move.

I’m not saying that I’m for the bailout/buyout, but if the unemployment rate gets very bad and inflation continues to climb, it won’t be a fun time for lots of people, not just the speculators and over-spenders.

Y-not on October 8, 2008 at 4:06 PM

May I join that club, I just paid off my 2005 Yukon XL. I have made huge adjustments in my driving habits (better errand management, use a scooter for local trips, motorcycle when I can) and have seen a nice lowering in my gas usage.

Bishop on October 8, 2008 at 3:50 PM

LOL… 2001 Durango RT… which I after market Supercharged… but the full time 4x is Gold here in Denver in the Winter…

Can’t afford to replace it… even though 12 MPG pretty much $ucks….

Romeo13 on October 8, 2008 at 4:06 PM

I don’t know how people can keep up just the cleaning and maintenance of those McMansions.

Have kids for child slave labor.

LimeyGeek on October 8, 2008 at 4:06 PM

MarkTheGreat on October 8, 2008 at 4:03 PM

Got it. Thanks.
What’s the statute of limitations on blaming Bush after 1/20/09?

Brat on October 8, 2008 at 4:06 PM

even though 12 MPG pretty much $ucks….

If your mpg isn’t in single digits, u r ghey

LimeyGeek on October 8, 2008 at 4:08 PM

Vashta.Nerada on October 8, 2008 at 4:02 PM

Thanks for the worry, we moved to a pretty defensive position about a year ago, so we aren’t getting as beat up as some, but it still is not good. What makes you mad is that you play by the rules all these years, and get screwed by corrupt pols and con men who are only out to make fast money.

kam582 on October 8, 2008 at 4:09 PM

What’s the statute of limitations on blaming Bush after 1/20/09?

Brat on October 8, 2008 at 4:06 PM

That’s the beauty of contemporary socialist liberal thinking – you’re never to blame. They will forever be lamenting ‘inherited’ issues from the Bush ‘legacy’.

LimeyGeek on October 8, 2008 at 4:10 PM

I just saw a clip on Fox of O! giving a speech talking about the strength of the American worker. It was practically verbatim from McCain’s speeches of a couple of weeks ago. I love how he is able to talk about how optimistic he is about the US economy without being challenged by the MSM, but McCain was hammered for saying essentially the same things before the bailout.

Arg.

Y-not on October 8, 2008 at 4:14 PM

Can’t afford to replace it… even though 12 MPG pretty much $ucks….
Romeo13 on October 8, 2008 at 4:06 PM

Chya, it sucks but I have kids, dog, wife and boat to haul around, not to mention winter driving makes it almost necessary.

If the idiots who ran my city made ATV’s legal for street mode, I do believe we would see cars disappear for 80% of the day.

Bishop on October 8, 2008 at 4:15 PM

I have kids, dog, wife and boat to haul around
Bishop on October 8, 2008 at 4:15 PM

Hey Bishop -

Friendly unsolicited advice from a concerned Christian conservative (chick) — buy your wife some flowers… or make sure she doesn’t see this post!

I’m just sayin’.

:-)

Y-not on October 8, 2008 at 4:19 PM

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