The home mortgage buy-up has already been approved; Update: McCain camp confirms no additional fund request
posted at 11:05 am on October 8, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
Last night, conservatives groaned in unison when John McCain launched his “new” initiative to renegotiate the principal on home mortgages with owners approaching bankruptcy. Some called this a “second bailout”, and others predicted a massive hit on home values nationwide. In fact, this is nothing terribly new nor innovative, and it has as much chance of preserving home values as it does of eroding them.
First, lenders already have begun modifiying mortgages, including principal, and for very good reason. Foreclosures create massive losses for lenders, and they’re better off keeping owners in their homes and making payments — even if they take a 10-20% loss on the principal, on paper. The result will be lower profit than originally expected, but it’s still profit, and right now that looks a lot better than a potential 50-75% loss through foreclosure.
Now that Treasury will buy hundreds of billions in mortgage-backed securities, they in effect have become the lender. They will own the papers on these homes, and must act in the long-term best interest in managing them. That will mean negotiating with homeowners just as private lenders have already done, trying to keep people in their homes and preventing as many defaults as possible. Note that this comes as a result of the legislation Congress already passed, and not any new initiative. What McCain proposes is a specific strategy of managing the paper to prevent as many homes from foreclosure as possible. In the end, that strategy could result in considerable long-term profit rather than a taxpayer bath.
Renegotiating the principal on these loans will not directly impact home values, for two reasons. The action will keep these homes off the market, while home values depend on the sale prices of homes in the immediate vicinity. Second, home values are already dropping, thanks to the deflation of the housing bubble, excess inventory through overbuilding of new homes, and the anticipated addition of tens of thousands of foreclosures. Lenders are also not writing too many mortgages these days, making it impossible to buy or sell. If these foreclosures hit the market, it will not only drastically lower the prices in neighborhoods across America, it will eat into the ability of lenders to grant mortgages in the future — and they won’t have Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac backstopping them any longer.
This proposal doesn’t go any farther than Congress has already gone in injecting the government into private lending markets in order to undo their disastrous interventions over the past decade. It does offer a management strategy for the portfolios that Treasury will buy with that now-existing authority. The plan follows a fairly straightforward private-sector strategy in an attempt to keep as many people in their homes as possible. Without some sort of renegotiation on these loans, we’ll start seeing massive foreclosures and the rapid deflation of home values everywhere — which is what McCain said he wanted to prevent.
Update: Michelle strongly disagrees.
Update II: I’ve consulted an economist on this point, and he points out that the trouble with MBSs is that they consist of pieces of several loans. That’s what will make renegotiating terms through the private sector almost impossible — it will require hundreds of people to agree on each one. He thinks that McCain’s proposal will create a shortcut that will allow for quick renegotiation, which could keep many of these mortgages from going into default.
The McCain campaign confirmed with me that the $300 billion McCain referenced was part of the existing bailout, not an additional outlay. He wants it redirected into this effort. I’ve asked for a link, and I’ll add it when I get it.
Update III: Marc Ambinder has this report from a Team McCain conference call this morning:
On a conference call with reporters, McCain policy chief Douglas Holtz-Eakin spelled out how McCain would pay for his plan for the government to buy troubled mortgages and replace when with more favorable fixed-rate mortgages at minimal direct cost to the homeowners. The government could use some of the $700 billion authorized for the bailout and tap other accounts, although the campaign estimates that, owing to negative equity — the government can’t magically turn bad mortgages into good ones without taking a hit — would be $300 billion. The McCain team hopes that by buying mortgages directly, the government wouldn’t have to buy as many distressed assets from big banks, thus reducing the net cost. McCain claims this idea as his own, although the bailout/rescue bill already gives the government the authority to deal directly with homeowners, and Obama has suggested that the government do the same — although McCain’s certainly being more aggressive here.
As I said, the authority to do this was in the plan all along. It’s not an additional $300 billion — it’s using $300 billion of the $700 billion already authorized to hit more directly on mortgages rather than rescuing investors from their derivatives. It transfers at least some of the pain back to the people who speculated on mortgages, but in effect gives the derivatives more value through the support of the mortgages on which they’re based.
Update IV: The Hope for Homeowners program, within the plan passed by Congress a week ago, already has this mechanism within it:
HOPE for Homeowners (H4H) is a program designed to assist borrowers at risk of default or foreclosure in refinancing to an affordable 30-year fixed rate FHA loan. The program is effective October 1, 2008 and will conclude on September 30, 2011. …
The loan amount may not exceed a nationwide maximum of $550,440.
The new mortgage will be no more than 90% of the new appraised value including any financed UFMIP with the lender essentially writing down the current mortgage to that amount.
Upfront MIP is 3% and the monthly MIP is 1.5%
The holders of existing mortgage liens must waive all prepayment penalties and late payment fees.
The existing first mortgage must accept the proceeds of the H4H loan as full settlement of all outstanding indebtedness.
Existing subordinate lenders must release their outstanding mortgage liens.
Update V: King Banaian looks at the McCain proposal:
There’s a glut of homes on the market. A glut is reduced either by decreasing supply or increasing demand. Lee Ohanian tries to sell an increased in skilled immigrants as a way to increase demand. The McCain Resurgence Plan, at its base, tries to reduce supply by not forcing the sale of homes through foreclosures. It might be, might be, cheaper to throw a few dollars into homes directly than to support the banks through the purchase of MBSs. …
The relief of negative equity means that the banks would receive from the government the difference between the principal on the original mortgage and the mortgage “at terms manageable for the homeowner.” I still need some flesh on that. I would want to know if the 31% payment-to-income ratio is the definition of manageable. I’d want to know if the government can be certain the initial purchase price on the home was not set in order to qualify someone for a shady mortgage. Those details aren’t there, and don’t look in Marty Feldstein’s pitch from last Friday (which is not exactly the same proposal anyway, but a close cousin.)
Be sure to read all of King’s post.










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Now that the stock market has tanked, let’s create a fund for those who lost money to re-purchase add’l shares to get their equity back up. Don’t let newcomers into the market with their cash who are able to buy up distressed assets at bargain basement prices.
Centralized planning for all! To each according to his former standing. No more winners and losers. Yay.
JiangxiDad on October 8, 2008 at 12:04 PM
I agree, but it will be hard to find in this party. Maybe in the Libertarian party, but HA commenters and bloggers alike HATE those people.
fossten on October 8, 2008 at 12:04 PM
This madness will not end here, and madness it is. The same people who told you the bailout would work, are telling you now that this handout really will work.
Those responsible for this mess are rewarded and those who are not are to be penalized. “Fairness” in an alternate inverted universe for sure.
Everybody has a good reason for why they need a handout. The slippery-slope towards socialism is underway and we are simply sharpening the toboggan skates.
On the bright side, the money Congress puts aside for this handout allows for a whole new slew of earmarks, decided by the very same people.
Joy.
awake on October 8, 2008 at 12:04 PM
The McCain campaign had better get the hell on the stick rightquicklike — the bone-headed decision to trot this turd out in the middle of Panderfest ’08 is already being spun against them. For good reason.
Cuffy Meigs on October 8, 2008 at 12:06 PM
Let the bank rent the house to the existing occupant, and give title to the taxpayer in returning for bailing out the bank.
JiangxiDad on October 8, 2008 at 12:07 PM
Keep on preaching, rockmom – and you are also 100% on target about the Sun Belt voters, formerly the leading edge of the Republican Party, right on the verge of being transformed into lifelong socialists as everything they wanted to believe about the country and the world is on the verge of being proved horribly wrong before their eyes.
People can blather all they want about moral hazard, but as millions of homeowners – not just the ones directly threatened with foreclosure – discover that the terms of their mortgages, which seemed reasonable as long as the sky didn’t fall, weren’t reasonable after all, then fundamental confidence in the entire political and economic system can be shaken, and after that anything is possible. If you consider the worldwide dimensions of this situation, it’s fair to say that, from the point of view of a lot of people, if the sky isn’t already falling, it’s looking damn shaky.
CK MacLeod on October 8, 2008 at 12:09 PM
What people failed to realize is house inflation was worse. Worse than even the dubious assertions that we face a depression.
Conveniently forgotten in this mess, as we imagined ourselves instant millionaires through no real effort on our parts with house going up 10-15 per annun, was the degenerate feedback loop it created in our consumer habits. The giant atm in the sky fostered a serious misallocation of capital funds in things and places it should never have gone. It is easy to forget that fully 25% of homes in the last three years were bought by speculators.
But putting that aside there is nothing wrong with deflation. It is part of the natural cycle in capitalism. While your house may return to mean value by dropping 50% that is where it should have been all along. The fact that you may have bought your house in 2004 is your problem just like it is mine that I own Intel at 25.
What needs to be broken in this country is the false mantra that houses only go up. It leads to false economics and very dangerous thinking as we are seeing today. If housing had been thought to possess some risk, illiquid and costly–upkeep, insurance etc we would not have put trillions into the bubble.
There are and cannot be risk less investments. That we engendered this kind of thinking is why we are possibly on the brink of a bone crunching recession–which is what it will take to purge the excesses.
patrick neid on October 8, 2008 at 12:11 PM
I agree with Ed and the McCain campaign that this should be considered as PART of the existing bailout package.
BUT…
He did not describe it very well at all in the debate. It was confusing to those of us who understand the situation, much less Joe Sixpack. In that regard, it was an EPIC FAIL.
I am so disappointed in McCain last night. Missed opportunity after missed opportunity. On the question of which to prioritize (Healthcare, Soc. Sec. or #3), he answered it right, but forgot to say the money line – MULTI-TASKING, which Obama mistakenly challenged him to do.
connertown on October 8, 2008 at 12:11 PM
Exactly. It is a wealth transfer from you to your neighbor, from a producer to a looter.
JiangxiDad on October 8, 2008 at 12:11 PM
It could have such a result. However with politicians such as Barney Frank and Harry Reid in charge, there is next to no chance of that happening.
Expect a new law to be passed requiring the govt to be lenient on these borrowers, especially borrowers who are minority, or who have contributed large amounts to Democratic coffers.
MarkTheGreat on October 8, 2008 at 12:11 PM
If it weren’t the MBS mess on all these bank and credit-providing firms’ balance sheets, I’d agree that we just allow home prices to deflate. Capital was unquestionably misallocated toward home building and home financing. But given the overwhelming evidence of a credit crisis at the moment and the massive impact this crisis will have on the economy if left unaddressed, arresting the deflation is the lesser of two evils. It’s hardly ideal.
phronesis on October 8, 2008 at 12:12 PM
I am certainly not saying I like this option, but it seems like the only thing that can be done to keep everyone else from losing their a$$ on their home.
Riiight.
So the idiots who used an ARM to buy a house costing twice what I could reasonably afford on my fixed rate, now gets the following:
A shiny new fixed rate significantly less than what I’m paying, and the opportunity to go right ahead and flip his house when the market shores up for a fat profit.
Meanwhile, I keep paying the extra 250/month over what I would have paid on an ARM, and my capital gains on my house when I sell will be significantly lower than the idiot getting the free ride from the gov’t.
Oh, and did I mention that the banks don’t want to allow me to refinance? Yeah. A credit rating of 760, a steady income, I’ve never missed a payment on anything the last 7 years … but they won’t make any deals on my rate because (drumroll) I’m a sure thing.
I’m beginning to think it is me that was the idiot all along.
krakatoa on October 8, 2008 at 12:14 PM
Funny, but people don’t live in their 401(k)s. If I lose everything in the stock market, it doesn’t affect you. But if I lose my home in a foreclosure and you live next door, your house is now worth less. In economics they call this an “externality,” a cost imposed on others that cannot be priced through the market. Externalities are generally considered one rationale for government intervention.
rockmom on October 8, 2008 at 12:14 PM
No need for laws. The courts will do this all on their own – as they’ve been doing for decades. We will probably even see judgments against the lenders to the defaulting borrowers. Just think of Orange County’s idiotic, losing interest rate gamble that nearly bankrupted them, followed by court judgements against Merrill Lynch for “taking advantage” of the professionals who were running Orange County’s funds.
progressoverpeace on October 8, 2008 at 12:14 PM
Jeez, I thought I had a low opinion of my fellow citizen. You sound like a liberal who thinks that others shouldn’t be held to the same standards as themselves, because they aren’t capable, and want to rush in and “help.”
A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Reading is fundamental. Man, we are now being asked to accept that we are a nation of morons. God help us.
JiangxiDad on October 8, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Unless the laws get changed, any write down of a mortgage is supposed to be treated as income for the borrower.
You can presume that such changes in the law are already being worked on.
MarkTheGreat on October 8, 2008 at 12:16 PM
I think that language changing this was included in the bailout bill.
phronesis on October 8, 2008 at 12:17 PM
The party is now a fiesta, and everyone who can’t afford the cover charge is invited!
fourstringfuror on October 8, 2008 at 12:18 PM
China by a long shot. The Chinese govt owns, lock, stock, and barrel whole industries over there, and the control of all industries is greater.
However the trend lines are different. While China is becoming less socialist, the US is becoming more so.
————
There are only two classes of people who believe in communism. Those who run it, and those who have never lived under it.
MarkTheGreat on October 8, 2008 at 12:18 PM
My house’s value to me is as shelter. If the nationwide, or local market rises or falls the same as my house does, I am neither better nor worse off.
Secondly, foreclosure is no different than my neighbor voluntarily putting his house up for sale. If the neighborhood is great, the foreclosed house will sell at a high price. If the neighborhood is crappy, my house’s value already reflected that.
JiangxiDad on October 8, 2008 at 12:19 PM
In re:
As one of my mm.com commenters wrote last night:
Michelle on October 8, 2008 at 12:19 PM
Well, it certainly is broken now.
This would all have been a fairly orderly slowdown, had it not been for the mark-to-market rules and had Fannie and Freddie been reined in and not allowed to buy any subprime paper. The boom was magnified by Fannie and Freddie, and the bust was magnified by the mark-to-market rules.
rockmom on October 8, 2008 at 12:19 PM
as a home designer and a capitalist… I must chime in and say. America is great because people have the choice to take risks for gain. people made deals to pay certain prices and certain interests, however bad they may be. while I’m all for laws that limit interest to 100% or so… but… these deals must be allowed to go bad… that’s what risk is all about. if they can’t make their loan payments they lose their house, if companies can’t collect their debt, they go out of business or start making smarter loans.
-
we’re taking the catalyst out of good business practices on both sides…
Kaptain Amerika on October 8, 2008 at 12:22 PM
I’m glad to have McCain on top of this. People act like leaving Paulson and Barney Frank to work this all out was a better plan than what McCain is doing. It isn’t.
That said. McCain needs to change the subject. This whole debacle boils the blood. As long as McCain’s name is associated in anyway it will reflect poorly on him.
Even people who should understand this whole thing better. (Yes I am talking about you fellow posters.) Just can’t get past the anger to see the big picture. McCain should do this. But be quieter about it. As unjust as this seems to people who understand.
petunia on October 8, 2008 at 12:22 PM
How long will it be before politicians start demanding that any homes foreclosed on by the govt be sold through section 8 housing.
MarkTheGreat on October 8, 2008 at 12:23 PM
But given the overwhelming evidence of a credit crisis at the moment and the massive impact this crisis will have on the economy if left unaddressed, arresting the deflation is the lesser of two evils. It’s hardly ideal.
phronesis on October 8, 2008 at 12:12 PM
patrick neid on October 8, 2008 at 12:24 PM
Im done with John McCain. To little to late.
Learn to communicate, wake me up when we get a real republican, maybe I will rejoin the ranks.
xRos on October 8, 2008 at 12:24 PM
I can think of three or four on the Supreme Court who don’t know of any such limits.
MarkTheGreat on October 8, 2008 at 12:25 PM
You know, that people ever got this idea wouldn’t be so incredibly stupid if not for the fact that we just experienced a serious housing recession less than 2 decades ago. How easily people forget. The absolute stuipidity in our public discourse and in our public policy is staggering.
But, as Franklin Raines stated (in demonstrating the depth of his lunacy):
Investments in real estate are “almost riskless”.
The guy should have been thrown in jail for reckless and dangerous stupidity at that very moment.
progressoverpeace on October 8, 2008 at 12:26 PM
Actualy, a lot of people do live on their 401ks, they are called retired people.
With the move from company backed retirment plans, to 401ks or 403bs, almost 50% of American households are in the stock market.
We are also down to 50% of Americans actualy paying income tax…
What a co inky dink.
Rally cry of the coming Second American Revolution….
NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION!
Romeo13 on October 8, 2008 at 12:27 PM
What future price are the rescued companies/banks/homeowners being asked to pay? How are they being required to share any future profits/equity with those who are now bailing them out?
JiangxiDad on October 8, 2008 at 12:29 PM
I prefer:
NO TAXATION WITHOUT COMENSURATE REPRESENTATION!
People who pay higher percentages should get commensurate voting power for the rate – though I do agree wtih you that those who don’t pay taxes shouldn’t get any vote at all.
progressoverpeace on October 8, 2008 at 12:30 PM
I’ve had that thought many times, but never saw how to say it so eloquently–backwards!! Bravo
JiangxiDad on October 8, 2008 at 12:30 PM
I am a mortgage broker here in St. Louis and the premise behind this is patently false. First of all Ed says that lenders arent lending money, not true, they are begging us to find more borrowers. FHA is 95% of all lending right now and you can still buy a home with 3% down.
Second,who determines what the principle gets reduced to? The thought that this will slow the selling of houses is also false. People will get their principle reduced and then put it on the market and just get out. Hence sell it for less then market value having the same affect as a foreclosure
Third, which is my main concern, by reducing principle balances this opens the door for the Biden proposal for updating the BK provisions allowing judges to change the terms of a contract. You want lending to slow down or even stop? Let them change the terms of a binding contract and either lending will stop or interest rates demanded will soar.
Let the market find its bottom and start over. The country rode a hot hand for the last 10 years and its time to call it a day and start over.
broker1 on October 8, 2008 at 12:33 PM
Consider this your cost to prevent Barry from doing worse. Like I said earlier, the folks in devalued ARMs are mercenaries for our side.
Vashta.Nerada on October 8, 2008 at 12:33 PM
Rush just offered a good pick-me-up. He said we had to drag McCain’s sorry old butt across the finish line, to protect the country from Obama, and then start working on protecting ourselves from the disastrous cabinet he’s likely to pick. One step at a time. (You didn’t think you were going to be able to stop saving the country on Nov. 5. It’s going to be a life-long battle.)
JiangxiDad on October 8, 2008 at 12:34 PM
I agree with McCain. There is a reality here that includes the following:
1. Approx 1 out of 8 jobs in this country depends on the housing market in one way or another.
2. Fannie, Freddie started this mess and yes now we are stuck fixing it.
3. The 700 billion has already been approved. Let’s use it to benefit homeowners as well as the credit market.
4. We are in a political climate where nothing else is getting passed.
5. Doing NOTHING will be a DISASTER.
McCain is making the best out of the tools available to him. THIS IS LEADERSHIP – THIS IS INNOVATION. I am not a McCain fan, I’m a Mitthead, so I was really disappointed when McCain revealed that Mitt will not be the Treasury secretary, BUT I am mature enough to not let my emotions cloud this.
We all need to step back and look at this LOGICALLY. Everyone that wants the free market to do whatever adjustment is due is CRAZY. Govt intervention caused this mess, we need to make a soft landing that spreads the pain around so we don’t have another depression.
This is what I want in my President. McCain has the right stuff.
JustTruth101 on October 8, 2008 at 12:34 PM
Someday I will release my manifesto… but the country is not angry enough yet. Close, but not yet…
The Founding Fathers AGREED with the idea of a poll tax. They did not really want everyone voting. They wanted people who owned property, who were successfull, to vote… thus weeding out the masses who would then vote themselves largess from the public trust…
Add in the Senators getting into office via popularity contest, instead of them being the States direct representative… and you have the downfall of a Republic.
Romeo13 on October 8, 2008 at 12:35 PM
I would think most mortgage brokers would know how to spell ‘principal’ – just saying.
Vashta.Nerada on October 8, 2008 at 12:35 PM
I’m more in line with the argument that:
If you get more money from the government than you pay in taxes; you can’t vote.
lorien1973 on October 8, 2008 at 12:38 PM
You’re expecting a good, patriotic, young Republican couple to have gone into the room with their lender in 2005, and have said, “No, I’d rather pay a much higher rate because I suspect that you, the Federal Government, the banking system, all of my friends, the developers who built the new shopping center and freeway extension, and everyone else are a bunch of insane liars and con men.” They could have read the documents to every single comma and semicolon and taken a few classes on mortgages – and still would have signed, and then have gone over to Home Depot to look at cabinet options.
That doesn’t make them morons. It makes them people who, you are saying, should never have bought into the system that they (wrongly) thought was already a free market capitalistic system with reasonable safeguards. If you abandon them to the international tradewinds, which have tendency to go excessively to the downside before they find their level, a lot of them are going to do what people in their position have done over and over throughout history – and it’s not “gain new respect for free market principles.”
War and socialism/fascism don’t emerge from poverty, they emerge from de-stabilization, from situations where people’s basic assumptions about the world have been radically upset. We haven’t ever had a pure capitalistic system or purely capitalistic ways of dealing with economic and other threats and disasters. That’s where the “social safety net” came from. The armed forces as currently constituted are a pre-eminent method for socializing the cost of defense, for instance. Most of us here don’t question the necessity of this compromise for a moment.
The idea that there’s the remotest chance we’re going to respond to the current crisis with a purely free market approach is as dangerous and counterproductive a fantasy than the one that a purely socialistic response will solve it.
CK MacLeod on October 8, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Hey, I’m leasing a computer from 4 years ago that is now worthless. How can the government help me?
I’m also upside down on my car loan. How will the government fix my problem.
You know, if government just outlawed depreciation, we could avoid these messes entirely.
lorien1973 on October 8, 2008 at 12:39 PM
Foreclosed houses never sell at market value. They may have been close when the market was booming but in this market they will be well lower than the historical foreclosure prices which are far lower than other houses.
Apprasiers are required to take into account forclosures when valuing a home. If there are 5 foreclosures in a neighborhood and one clean sale… if that is even possible with 5 foreclosures… The price goes down for all the homes in the neighborhood. If the loans are reworked those foreclosures won’t effect the neighborhood prices and the freemarket can set the price.
Unless you feel that the foreclosure price the five house sold for, well well below the market value of thoses houses last year, ARE the true value of your house–you benefit by keeping the equity in your house.
Not just the people with reworked loans benefit, but the whole neighborhood. Why is that so hard to understand? If those houses go into foreclosure you lose equity in your house too!
When your neighbor got that crappy loan he was taking the risk of devaluing your house and the whole neighborhood when he couldn’t pay the loan.
Or you could see that crappy loan as driving the value of your house up undeservedly. In that case the bailout is giving you money you don’t really deserve by protecting your equity position!
petunia on October 8, 2008 at 12:39 PM
I know. I just don’t say it anymore because it’s a dead end. Then that leads to other thoughts,and ultimately to a very pessimistic outlook that color life. I wish we are on the other side of that abyss, on the way up.
JiangxiDad on October 8, 2008 at 12:42 PM
For some here who seem to have a grasp of economics, why can’t it be understood that CREDIT EXTENSION is the direct reason this nation is in this mess. From the crash in ’29, thru the S&L scandals, and now today, the un-regulated over-extension of credit has again become the poison pill that eats away at real capital and assets. The current financial system is again fractured by the premise that we must survive on credit, (and the great social experiment of putting unqualified buyers into homes that they simply could not afford. Solvency and liquidity will only return when responsible credit practices are regulated, and I hate unfettered government regulation in either direction that kills free market investments.
Rovin on October 8, 2008 at 12:43 PM
I’m glad we have you here to point out peoples mistakes. Thanks for analyzing the messenger and not the message.
Just sayin’
broker1 on October 8, 2008 at 12:44 PM
No because if you fail to pay for your computer that doesn’t effect the price of my computer in any way.
petunia on October 8, 2008 at 12:44 PM
“To-may-to” or “To-mah-to”… In my mind it really doesn’t matter whether 300 Billion was included or not.
THE WHOLE D@MN THING IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!
And John McCain voted for it! Last night was just McCain rubbing salt in our massive wound! As far as I’m concerned, the best thing for this campaign is if John suffered a massive heart attack, and Sarah stepped up and asked Mitt to be her VP! McCain’s faux conservatism needs to go! Palin isn’t the liability, McCain is!
(Ok, now I can calm down and let my BP drop… that felt good to get off my chest…)
dominigan on October 8, 2008 at 12:45 PM
8500
tomas on October 8, 2008 at 12:46 PM
2 thoughts:
1. I agree with the conservatives- bailouts= bad, no matter how you relabel them. The bill was always a POS wrapping in billions of pork that should have been ripped screaming out of Congress, like a fetus in a Chicago hospital under Obama’s watch, and stomped dead by torch and pitchfork bearing Americans. That was not a plan, it was a BS attempt at plausible deniability. Want proof? Look at the market’s reaction. EPIC FAIL
2. No matter how correct the free market people are, we still lost that argument. Now we need to focus on wasting billions of American’s hard earn dollars in a productive manner. For once, I agreed with Obama last night. AIG execs should be trotted out of there junket and hung in a public square while we seize all their assets for public sale and cancel the check we wrote them. Let the rest of these worthless, corrupt businesses fail to. I am tired of funding failure, no matter what the short term (and completely naive and overblown) consequences.
So, the question remains- what to do with 700 billion in money we are now required to spend? Personally, I like McCain’s idea. It pulls the trash out of the free market and the government takes accountability for the problem that it created. Toxic paper is dealt with (with a potential for long term ROI… doubtful) and failing, mismanaged corrupt POS companies die a quick and deserved death without my money. The remaining 95% of good companies and paper are left with a clean field to play on… so long as we shoot every Democratic member of Congress in the head and beat Fanny and Freddy to death with their corpses.
Damiano on October 8, 2008 at 12:47 PM
Government said…we tanked it…lets see who kind of power grab we can get out of this…while we can.
tomas on October 8, 2008 at 12:47 PM
One of the major reasons we will lose to Osama Obama is this insistence on continually pushing the “he shoulda…” line.
I agree the bailout was monumental stupidity. I wrote my congressman, who voted against it (not because of me, I know).
But we are stuck with it, and I would much rather have McCain’s finger on the financial button than Obama’s. Giving The Messiah a chance to redress his long-held grievances through our involuntary contributions is anathema.
His side does not question his irrational babbling. Our side questions McCain’s every step. The MSM doesn’t even have to break a sweat looking for ammunition. We give it to them.
Thus, we lose.
Thank you Michelle M, Coulter and the rest of the pundits who are willing to sell us down the river in order to have fodder for their blogs, columns and TV commentaries. You’d best be aware that the Fairness Doctrine will be in place within days of Jan. 20, and your rights will be trampled just as ours will be.
MrScribbler on October 8, 2008 at 12:47 PM
I do. And if I don’t “like” that value, and believe there is undiscovered value that others don’t know about, I’ll buy one of those foreclosures myself, or wait a few years until the market begins to realize what I know.
JiangxiDad on October 8, 2008 at 12:47 PM
Again, we apologize for having principles.
Profusely, we are sorry that the lesser of two evils is not good enough.
Also, we apologize for warning you all 2 years ago that McCain would lose this election.
Finally, we are sorry that you will blame us for it.
lorien1973 on October 8, 2008 at 12:50 PM
I would think that a typical appraisal would be used. And if that appraisal includes a bunch of foreclosed properties that is going to be pretty low. Because an appraisal isn’t going back further than 6 months.
petunia on October 8, 2008 at 12:51 PM
It’s what I did. Lived in a basement until I got 20% down, bought a house I could afford, and was less than I wanted, paid my mortgage on time,and renegotiated a lower rate when the opportunity arose. Never did the cabinet options thing.
JiangxiDad on October 8, 2008 at 12:51 PM
Throwing massive amounts of taxpayer dollars at a problem that was started by Government intervention, without fixing the problem… THAT’S INNOVATION?
Are you joking?
dominigan on October 8, 2008 at 12:51 PM
Hey. How’s that bailout working out, anyways?
Stock market need another 700 billion yet?
lorien1973 on October 8, 2008 at 12:52 PM
You missed the point, “broker”
Vashta.Nerada on October 8, 2008 at 12:52 PM
And if the person still cannot pay their loan at the “new fabulous appraised value” what next? Make up the amount?
Cuz that’s really what’s going to happen, isn’t it?
lorien1973 on October 8, 2008 at 12:53 PM
McCain just did what I thought was impossible with this crazy idea – he lost my vote!
His plan taxes everyone who acted responsibly to transfer the money to those who acted irresponsibly. What a scam!
cool breeze on October 8, 2008 at 12:54 PM
Wow… now THAT’S an idea! I agree with other posters who also mentioned the poll tax.
dominigan on October 8, 2008 at 12:58 PM
So…. you are all ready to “punish” McCain/Republicans and vote for “other” party and allow Obama to become president?
And lorien1973 you are wondering what happened to the Republican party?
Well your answer is the “punishment” of the 1992 and 2006 elections!!
How’s that working out for you all?
I want you all to listen very carefully to me here (if you care about our country), “punishing” a party by voting in……. (directly or by default) the more liberal party, is the most wrong headed way of fighting for our country!!
McCain, in asking us to fight (with him) for this country, NEVER said that he is not also influenced by lobbyist/special interest, etc.
Bear with me here.
He is saying, “Fight with me!”
That would mean, “Please don’t fight against me”.
Did you get that?
Let me say this a different way.
What I heard in his convention speech was an element of desperation, ie: “Please help me here, the special interest lobbying is bad, really bad, please help me and fight with me, against the special interest groups and lobbyists.”
Did you get that?
The special interest small business lobby is what tilted the bail out plan in the final analysis (architects, designers, engineers, home builders crying a river of tears). Yea I feel their pain, wah wah wah!!
McCain is up against a conundrum of special interest groups and a mortgage nut to crack. In other words… between a rock and a hard place.
If we fight with him (not against him) and the succeeding Republican presidents in future elections, we will, a)put all of the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac mortgages back into private hands, b)privatize social security, c) privatize Medicare, d)privatize education……
…. and the list goes on… what else do you want?
…..you can have it all……..
That is…. if you really want it.
And… that is… if you really have the fight and the resolve in you, to see it through.
And that is something only you can decide.
But for me – paraphrasing Sam Houston – “You can all go to hell, but I’m fighting with McCain/Palin”.
Mcguyver on October 8, 2008 at 1:00 PM
Yes, and we haven’t heard what those who receive have to give up in return. How about their vote?
JiangxiDad on October 8, 2008 at 1:01 PM
Thanks for your response. What is the suggestion that you have that will 1) keep home prices for continuing to depreciate, and 2) alleviate the credit crunch, both of which are MUST-HAVES to avoid a depression, that can actually be implemented?
JustTruth101 on October 8, 2008 at 1:01 PM
Side note…
For everyone hating McCain right now… do you want Obama instead? No? Good… shut up up, go pull the lever for McCain bring your friends, family and every ACORN registered homeless person you can find with you. Smile and be consoled that you did your part to keep the most worthless, inexperience and pathetic joke of a marketing gimmick from riding the Affirmative Action wave into the White House.
Consolation prize- McCain HAS to swing the ignorant, unwashed and uneducated masses who think that the MSM actually report news, facts and unbiased commentary. To do this, he has to overcome: 1. people voting on panic, frustration and emotion and contrary to any shred of reason, 2. the entire MSM, 3. 2 years worth of people being sold on Hopenchange and thinking it actually means something other in addition to “not Bush or McCain, his evil demon seed that will die of a heart attack immediately after taking the oath of office, leaving the nation to a failed porn star/ soccer-mom”, 4. he’s got 3 weeks to do it.
Need more consolation? I would put money on it that Palin will drag McCain back to the Oval Office immediately after the Inaugural Ball, sit him on the couch opposite the Resolute Desk, sit her ass in McCain’s new bulletproof chair, smile sweetly and say, “Bless your heart, some of your economic plans were so cute. Right up there with the stuff about not drilling in ANWAR. Now that we’re past all that, here is how I am going to fix this pig of an economy and you are going to sign off on it. Don’t worry, you can still deal with all the overseas nonsense for now. I’ll be busy.”
Damiano on October 8, 2008 at 1:01 PM
I’m actually surprized you understood that paragraph, it was awful… but I think that makes you a libertarian more than a conservative.
To be clear. I do not like the situation we are in. But I don’t think it is a solution to go into a global tail spin the likes as we have never ever seen.
In 1929, it was only stocks. Now it is a basic human need–shelter. And homeownership–private property, if you will, is an absolutely essential part of what drives the American economy.
Government does have a roll here. If for no other reason than government messing with the free market is what got us to this place. I am not a libertarian. I hope the government roll will be limited to the absolute smallest part possible.
But I don’t think this is the end of government involement in housing and finance. For instance FHA is not going any where and that is government involvement by insuring that 15% that the bank won’t carry.
petunia on October 8, 2008 at 1:02 PM
With McCain down in the polls and with all the focus on the economy, has McCain’s camp thought to contact Murray Blum (Charles Grodin’s character in Dave)? Murray did a pretty good job helping Dave Kovic (Kevin Kline’s character) straighten out the budget. And Murray’s help cost taxpayers only a bratwurst dinner.
BuckeyeSam on October 8, 2008 at 1:02 PM
Thanks for your response. What is the suggestion that you have that will 1) keep home prices for continuing to depreciate, and 2) alleviate the credit crunch, both of which are MUST-HAVES to avoid a depression, that can actually be implemented?
AND a question to all who now say they won’t vote:
When the pay off comes (we are a mobile society, people move on average every 5 years) WHO DO YOU WANT IN OFFICE? We are buying mortgages at 10 cents on the dollar, if we get 40 cents of 50 cents back, that’s a huge ROI. I GUARANTEE you if a Dem is in office, all that $$$ will be spent to make bigger govt, we ALL KNOW if it’s McCain, it will go to pay down the national debt…THINK – don’t just react – THINK.
JustTruth101 on October 8, 2008 at 1:02 PM
I really don’t know what to think of this, but I do have a question: -
Where is the bureaucracy that is going to handle this? At ACORN Housing?
True, but the problem is that I’m getting screwed by my irresponsible neighbors, and this screw job began with the government. People like myself who did the right thing with conventional 20% down/fixed mortgages directly benefit if less houses are on the market – probably much more so than what the cost of the bailout will be to me as a taxpayer.
What’s the difference between living in a house was obtained with with no money down, and renting? It seems to me that it’s just a technicality. Let’s face it, none of us own our homes until the last mortgage payment is paid. It’s just that I have more at risk than the ACORN-enabled “homeowners” because I put 20% down on my house.
Not necessarily. I live in a nice neighborhood, but a lot of ACORN Babies* moved in recently, and now a huge percentage of them are in foreclosure.
*ACORN Baby: A progeny of marxist evolution. Baby boomers—>Generation X—>Generation Y—>Acorn babies.
Buy Danish on October 8, 2008 at 1:04 PM
The government manipulating the free market to preserve the free market. Only a politician could say this with a straight face.
I remember better times when people actually paid for their mistakes. I made one in 89-92 and paid 20 grand to sell my house. I had to live with my mother-in-law for a year to recover. Now that is suffering! No seriously, that IS suffering. But I paid the price and bought another house, made my payments, and resisted the urge to borrow on the equity. My reward? My house is worth crap and it appears I am screwed again. But I can live with it because home ownership is a privelege – not a right guaranteed by thye Constitution. It’s the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS Senator!
Mr_Magoo on October 8, 2008 at 1:06 PM
I have a feeling that the trolls jumping ship this morning, are just that: “I’m Dumping mCcain, c’mon join me, c’mon!”
Give me a break! You’re so obvious. I don’t care if McCain dances naked down Main St, tossing out taxpayer dollars as he goes- Get him elected over that other idiot, and let Palin clean up the financial mess after the fact!
Anyone who says they’re willing to have an ENTIRE Dem gov’t AND new Liberal Supreme Court is INSANE! Get over yourself or get out!
anniekc on October 8, 2008 at 1:06 PM
Yeah. Sorry that Bush broke his promise 1991 and raise taxes and caused a recession. Yeah. Sorry about that. Still voted for him in 1992, though.
Yeah, and sorry about those congressional republicans sucking at the teet of washington and voting them out. Yeah. Sorry about Katherine Harris completely screwing every other republican in Florida with her selfish senate run. My bad. Sorry about that. I abstained from that vote on the ballot.
I apologize.
My fault again. Really. Not the party’s fault. Not their fault. Our fault for holding them accountable.
You’re right. We should just vote for people with an R after their name. That way the R’s and D’s can really be the same! Two parties. Full of crap and criminals in Washington. Yes! Parity at last.
Till she starts talking about this crap, at least.
lorien1973 on October 8, 2008 at 1:06 PM
Excellent point. The bailout crapola is already passed and signed into law. I’d prefer to hold the money so Hank (Goldman Sachs) Paulson and his newly appointed assistant (just hired away from Goldman Sachs) don’t get to just bail our their favorite company. I actally do trust McCain more than Bush on this topic.
But because McCain isn’t Michelle Malkin’s fantasy man, we may get to watch Obama use our tax dollars to award his friends just like he did with all of those millions of Chicago Annenberg Challenge dollars the last time he was chief executive of an organization.
funky chicken on October 8, 2008 at 1:06 PM
No hopfully there will be some qualifications for the new loan that the homeowner can meet. The rework isn’t going to work for everyone. Obviously someone making 50K isn’t going to be able to stay in a house with a loan of more than 125K or so. I don’t think anyone is going to make that mistake.
petunia on October 8, 2008 at 1:07 PM
Until you imagine an economic situation in which millions and millions of people are in lorien’s position of not paying for their computers… Which implies that they’re not paying for a lot of other things – last year’s vacation, this year’s, their car, their furniture, their plasma TV, and a lot else… Which is about what an unchecked housing market depression – the sequel – implies.
CK MacLeod on October 8, 2008 at 1:07 PM
Are you going to let this stand as uttered by the Dailykos kids?:
Mcguyver on October 8, 2008 at 1:08 PM
What he said.
Spoken like someone who has never signed a contract.
The Race Card on October 8, 2008 at 1:09 PM
Damiano! Great post! Exactly my thoughts, but said much better-
anniekc on October 8, 2008 at 1:09 PM
Universal suffrage kills.
progressoverpeace on October 8, 2008 at 1:09 PM
Wow. What government have you been watching for the past 40 years?
lorien1973 on October 8, 2008 at 1:10 PM
?!? What praytell are you trying to say? I can’t even tell when you’re being rude anymore. Shees. Get it straight TRC.
The Race Card on October 8, 2008 at 1:11 PM
I think petunia is counting on the “this time it will be different” idea, that has always been proven incorrect. They won’t come down hard on anyone today … but tomorrow …
Oh well. We had to listen to the same drivel about legalizing illegals for the last years. I guess it makes sense that we should have to listen to the same for everything. We’ll change tomorrow …
progressoverpeace on October 8, 2008 at 1:14 PM
I do contracts for a living. Do I really have to come out and say ‘sockpuppet’? Can’t anyone take a hint anymore?
Vashta.Nerada on October 8, 2008 at 1:15 PM
Confusion reigns. Nothing but massive doses of socialism.
T J Green on October 8, 2008 at 1:18 PM
“Most” can be a dangerous generalization. Do you know this for a fact or are you just assuming?
Mr_Magoo on October 8, 2008 at 1:18 PM
You have got to be kidding! You can’t get a loan with numbers like that? But that is actually what Bush was talking about when he said that lending has frozen. But I think McCain’s plan will do a better job of preserving your equity. At least that is my hope.
But I would hope that the mechanism that John McCain has will be better than allowing Barney Frank and ACORN to rework the loans. And that is the only real option we have now.
petunia on October 8, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Here’s a thoughtful post from another site that helps explain the necessity of action from a realistic perspective instead of as an airy argument in the abstract about free market principles vs socialism, or grandstanding and rabble-rousing about “monstrosities” that aren’t understood or accurately explained by the grandstanding rabble-rousers:
Sure, all by itself the market might work this problem out, but, as petunia, justtruth, and others emphasize, this is more fundamental than over-priced stocks. Just as housing has helped lead economic recoveries, an unchecked housing market depression would affect every aspect of the economy, and in ways that people currently congratulating themselves over their thoughtful conservative investment strategies aren’t considering.
Few will stand for and even fewer will to vote for a cleansing depression. Capitalism in the Year Zero is not a winning slogan.
CK MacLeod on October 8, 2008 at 1:23 PM
I’m sure Mike Klonsky is writing his proposal to get a chunk of that $700 billion right now. With an Obama White House he’ll get it too.
funky chicken on October 8, 2008 at 1:24 PM
1) It’s UNCONSTITUTIONAL, so that SHOULD be the end of discussion. If this were stressed and taxpayer money taken off the table, we could move on to real solutions.
2) Home prices were drastically inflated anyways. It’s called market re-adjustment. It happens. And while it may hurt temporarily, it’s the right thing to happen.
3) The credit crunch is exaggerated. Many (especially smaller) banks have plenty of money to loan… since they didn’t engage in risky speculation.
As far as actions…
1) Change the mark-to-market to properly valuate physical property holdings.
2) Lower capital gains taxes and corporate taxes to drastically stimulate the economy.
3) Let idiots fail… it’s their right.
Oh, and 4) Indict CEOs of GSEs, and any Congressmen, who allowed this to happen and were directly involved.
Yes, we would go through a downturn… just like we are now (with a 700+ billion albatross around our neck), but we would come out of it sooner, without the debt, and responsible behavior would be rewarded while irresponsible behavior would be… well not exactly punished, but allowed to be purged from the system.
dominigan on October 8, 2008 at 1:24 PM
To vote for a candidate is to give support to his agenda.
McCain… Put government in charge of Freedom of Speech for elections (McCain Feingold)
McCain… for Cap and Trade because he believe in Global Warming. Will be a HUGE increase in government power.
McCain… now proposes for the Federal Government to be our landlords, and hold our Mortgages.
McCain… supported creating Dept of Homeland Security, the largest increase in Government Size and power ever.
McCain… in Washington for years, during the increase Government Size, power, and debt….
Are you starting to see the pattern here?
Romeo13 on October 8, 2008 at 1:27 PM
Oh well, since it was collective mania, then by all means, let’s bail them out!
Let the house sit vacant for a year and then let a first time buyer who has good credit and the down payment buy it! Your solutions are the problem. It’s the same as social engineering. Indiscrimiate determination by the government who is worthy and who is not.
Mr_Magoo on October 8, 2008 at 1:28 PM
Hope and faith in anything related to government is severely mis-placed. Haven’t we learned this yet?
Barney Frank will write the plan. Cuz, you know, McCain isn’t going to name names like he promised.
lorien1973 on October 8, 2008 at 1:29 PM
CK MacLeod on October 8, 2008 at 1:23 PM
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Off to go yell at Citimortgage. They decided to not pay my property taxes on time after holding my money in escrow for the year–just got the notice from the city.
This happened to us with a different company a few years ago in a different place. It’s easy to fix, but an annoyance.
But I’m thinking of telling Citi that I’m having trouble making these mortgage payments and that I want to renegotiate my loan. I heard The Donald on Hannity the other day and that was his advice for folks who are at risk of losing their homes.
/kidding–tempted, but kidding
funky chicken on October 8, 2008 at 1:30 PM
I do not consider the Constitution abstract. The Constitution is the highest law in the land. When officials are sworn into office, they swear their duty to uphold the Constitution. Everyone who voted for this is in violation of their oath of office.
And by your definition, our country’s Founding Fathers were just rabble-rousers… what are they teaching kids now a days?
dominigan on October 8, 2008 at 1:30 PM
Brilliant plan Mccain!!
You just won the election with that plan and hopenchange doesn’t even realize it yet….just like he didn’t realize he was getting another Sarah Palin Hail Mary bomb dropped on him last night until near the end of the debate.
Let the naysayers who don’t understand the economy go gripe on the DailyKos.
SaintOlaf on October 8, 2008 at 1:30 PM
1) already done
2) vote for McCain
funky chicken on October 8, 2008 at 1:31 PM
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