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Obama’s 180 on genocide

posted at 10:10 am on October 8, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Jeff Jacoby detected a mighty spin coming from Barack Obama’s attempt to define his doctrine on interventionism in last night’s debate.  In Nashville, Obama said that the American military must stand ready to stop genocide whenever and wherever it occurs.  However, Obama seemed to have little concern last year to the genocide that would have resulted from a precipitous pre-surge withdrawal from Iraq:

Though most of the debate dealt with domestic issues, it was a foreign-policy question that sent me flying to my files. Moderator Tom Brokaw asked the candidates what their “doctrine” would be “in situations where there’s a humanitarian crisis, but it does not affect our national security,” such as “the Congo, where 4.5 million people have died since 1998,” or Rwanda or Somalia.

In such cases, answered Obama, “we have moral issues at stake.” Of course the United States must act to stop genocide, he said. “When genocide is happening, when ethnic cleansing is happening . . . and we stand idly by, that diminishes us.”

But that wasn’t how Obama sounded last year, when he was competing for the Democratic nomination and was unbending in his demand for an American retreat from Iraq. Back then, he dismissed fears that a US’t a good enough reason to keep US forces there,” the AP reported on July 20, 2007 (my italics). withdrawal would unleash a massive Iraqi bloodbath. “Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said Thursday the United States cannot use its military to solve humanitarian problems and that preventing a potential genocide in Iraq isn’t a good enough reason to keep US forces there,” the AP reported on July 20, 2007 (my italics).

What kind of candidate is it whose moral response to genocide – genocide – can reverse itself 180 degrees in a matter of months? Is that the kind of candidate who ought to be the leader of the free world?

Obama’s answer also ignored the multiple genocides of the Saddam Hussein regime.  We knew well before our entry into Iraq that Saddam had conducted genocides against the Kurds.  He used the chemical weapons that people now claim he didn’t have at Halabja, for which he and his henchmen deservedly received the death penalty (although Saddam had already been executed by then).  He also conducted a genocidal campaign against the Marsh Arabs, draining their wetlands and leaving them to die for their opposition to his regime.  Saddam persecuted the Shi’ites after an uprising in 1991, one that continued in defiance of the no-fly zones — the same tactic Obama recommended as a stop against genocide in Sudan and elsewhere.

Now Obama says that American intervention in Iraq was the wrong move, but in an Obama Doctrine, that would have been an acceptable response.  Saddam was a genocidal tyrant, and no one else in the region was going to act to stop him.  The only difference here is the political juice Obama gets for opposing the Iraq war.

And, as Jacoby points out, Obama can’t even be consistent.  He decries genocide and pledges American intervention to stop it, but earlier said that potential genocide wouldn’t be enough reason to keep American troops in place.  Huh?  Either Obama is confused, or he only cares about genocides when it doesn’t involve Iraqis.


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The explanation is simple and obvious, however, giving specifics would get me banned.

Let’s just say he likes some groups more than others.

Cody1991 on October 8, 2008 at 10:17 AM

This line of thinking struck me when I heard Sen. McCaskill speaking on Fox News this morning. She said something to the effect that both men said last night that our military should be used for humanitarian reasons to stop mass killings – and isn’t that what we did when we stopped Saddam Hussein? So does Obama now agree that we needed to go into Iraq?

eucher on October 8, 2008 at 10:18 AM

Let’s just say he likes some groups more than others.

Cody1991 on October 8, 2008 at 10:17 AM

What he said.

CP on October 8, 2008 at 10:19 AM

No this was about WMD’s…we caused the genocide…blah blah blah

tomas on October 8, 2008 at 10:19 AM

I caught that too along with the fact that McCain whiffed when BO said it.

That would have been the game changing moment for this election.

swami on October 8, 2008 at 10:20 AM

You see, they are anti-American to the core. Any regime that works with American people is a traitor to the cause and the dictators and the tyrants who are on the wrong side of America are good people to them becuase they are standing up to the hegemon.

That’s why they hate Iraq and Pakistan, ignore Georgia and COlumbia but wnat to talk with Iran and Cuba.

promachus on October 8, 2008 at 10:20 AM

I still don’t know why McCain didn’t nail him on that one. I was waiting for him to come back with “Ask the Kurds if there was genocide in Iraq, they got gassed by Saddam, ask the Marsh Arabs if there was genocide in Iraq. My opponent says he was against the Iraq War, but by the standard he just defined it was justified. So which is it?”

He ended up giving a decent answer to the question, but he could have nailed Obama on that one and he let it slip. Only one more chance, and really, after the bore-fest of last night, how many will be watching the next one?

toddsts on October 8, 2008 at 10:21 AM

good points

ndulik on October 8, 2008 at 10:21 AM

Remember, Obama’s foreign policy staff is adirect inheritance from Carter. The Carter foreign policy school which was pro-Iranian revolution may have been pro-Shia and anti-Iraq. That probably explains it.

promachus on October 8, 2008 at 10:22 AM

I was half listening (and half reading the HA chat) while watching the debate on tape. I had to rewind when Obama gave this answer because I couldn’t believe he had just said what he did. I realize the format prevented it, but there was no way Brokaw was going to throw the bs flag anyway. Tim Russert was a huge loss for American political media.

hump1201 on October 8, 2008 at 10:22 AM

Ed you have to learn to parse his statements better. Obama was addressing “…when genocide is happening…”. You see the genocide that occurred in Iraq happened before we invaded and the genocide that may occur if we leave precipitously would be potential genocide (or preemptive if you will – we don’t do that sort of thing anymore under an Obama administration). Obama would feel comfortable intervening if genocide was ongoing – after maybe a million or so are dead. Also there mustn’t be a possible national interest – “no blood for oil” and all that. Oh, and we need to make sure that the Global Community(tm) is on board, including the bloodletters themselves.

peterargus on October 8, 2008 at 10:23 AM

I wish Obama would shut up about Rwanda because the democrats did absolutely nothing which only emboldened the mass murderers. The democrats have blood on their hands. In fact, they always have blood on their hands.

Blake on October 8, 2008 at 10:23 AM

Come on folks, you’ve seen this before. But, by being conservatives you’ve obviosuly missed the Democratic NUANCE.

They are soooooooo much more sophisticated then the rest of the common people. That’s why they are the elite, the born leaders.

And we must follow, blindly. And any more criticism, the Brown Shirts are going to show up.

GarandFan on October 8, 2008 at 10:23 AM

Biden: We never should have supported the election in Palestine. It was a terrible Bush idea. Democracy ain’t for everyone!

Obama: We never should have supported a dictator in Pakistan. It was a terrible Bush idea. Democracy for everyone!

Which is it fellas?

Limerick on October 8, 2008 at 10:24 AM

It’s just politics; Darfur has the left’s sympathy. Obama is clueless about what it would take to stop genocide in Darfur (hint: it will be longer, costlier, and bloodier than Iraq, with no strategic value). Obama is clueless about how much the left really wants Darfur to be “fixed.”

If Obama does win, and does go into Darfur, he will pull another Somalia exit the first time it goes badly. Ditto Pahk-ee-stahn.

Obama is a wimp. The only thing he knows about power is how to abuse it.

NeighborhoodCatLady on October 8, 2008 at 10:24 AM

I was very dissappointed that McCain didn’t call him on this last night, it was so obvious.

Not only that, what about Keyna and this Odigna fool Obama went and Campaigned for!

jp on October 8, 2008 at 10:25 AM

What the hell is going on with the Boston papers. They’ve been more critical of Obama than I expected. Maybe they’re PUMAs also since Hillary eviscerated Obama in the primaries in MA?

YellowDawg on October 8, 2008 at 10:25 AM

“Obama is confused, or he only cares about genocides when it doesn’t involve Iraqis.”

Or…he cares more when it does involve Africans.

Star20 on October 8, 2008 at 10:25 AM

I’m guessing that Barack means that the US should only stop genocides in small, weak states that do not have the ability to fight back.

MarkTheGreat on October 8, 2008 at 10:25 AM

Obama only cares about people who are useful to him as a political issue.

In his calculation, Iraqis clearly are not. What’s a few hundred thousand dead Iraqis if he’s able to keep his pledge to his lunatic supporters in MoveOn.org or at the Daily Kos?

Obama is also a typical Democrat, in that he talks the talk, but won’t walk the walk.

Democrats all whined about Saddam Hussein, but when our President actually took some action, they immediately abandoned their position in a cynical attempt to undermine the US military and the Commander in Chief, for crass political gain.

Well, now they might have it. Congratulations Democrats, you’ve lied to Americans time and time again, you’ve caused all of the problems you blamed Republicans for and now you might finally get the power you’ve dreamed of.

I have no doubt Democrats will use whatever power they steal to enrich themselves, their billionaire supporters andn their anti-American, foreign financiers. Congratulations again.

NoDonkey on October 8, 2008 at 10:26 AM

I’m -really- surprised that there isn’t a post about Obama’s “healthcare is a right” bullcrap from last night. It’s a fundamental point.

Rights do not cost anything. And they do not demand anything from someone else.

Thus, your right to free speech is free. And since there is no right to be heard, nothing is required of anyone else.

Your right to bear arms is free. It costs nothing. Nor does it require anything of anyone else.

Your right of privacy is free. It costs nothing. You having privacy does not require anyone else.

Healthcare violates both of these principles. Healthcare costs money, sometimes a lot of money. And to exercise that right, other people must be involved in carrying it out. Therefore, it is not a right.

I’m also surprised that no one has posted up Fox last night. Where Obama’s camp said that “spending cuts” means “tax increases” and when McCaskill said that “we need to look at the revenue side” – clearly they are planning huge tax increases but have decided that the phrase is toxic.

But here we are, stuck on this topic. And, you know what? Who cares. Genocide is happening here. It’s called our economic freedom.

Can you focus, just a little bit?

/end rant

lorien1973 on October 8, 2008 at 10:26 AM

Joke of the day….

An MP said on Wednesday that the Islamic Republic of Iran has never invaded any country and has always helped peace, tranquility, and stability in the entire region.

So this isn’t reason enough to keep troops in Iraq? It’s akin to Teh One’s campaign. Allegations/attacks are made by His Holiness except not by himself……its the surrogates.

Just like Iran says, “We want peace.” Nevermind the fact that they are funneling money and weapons to surrogates to attack innocent people.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 8, 2008 at 10:26 AM

So if the military is being used against genocide, when do the Marines start taking out Planned Parenthood locations and sticking abortion doctors in Gitmo?

Hening on October 8, 2008 at 10:27 AM

toddsts on October 8, 2008 at 10:21 AM

Answer.Because he could not believe what he was hearing. Ed brought this up in the chat last night and I dont think it’s getting enough attention.

Nelsa on October 8, 2008 at 10:27 AM

That is just one place he opposed his own position. Obama is obviously much better at high level math than I am. In the debate I heard him state very clearly that the way he would pay for some of his domestic proposals would be to end the war in Iraq and bring the troops home, reassigning the billions of dollars per week being spent there to build domestic programs. Only minutes later he was claiming that he would pull the troops out of Iraq and send them to Afghanistan, because that was the center of the war on terror. Did he mean he would send the troops to Afghanistan without logistic support? How many times can you spend the same money? If he can’t even do the simple “if you have five apples and eat two” type of basic arithmetic, can he really fix the stock markets?

MikeA on October 8, 2008 at 10:28 AM

Why are you all wasting brain cells trying to figure out what Obama’s policy is?

He clearly has no agenda other than to get himself elected president. He will say anything that serves that aim until it is achieved.

He’ll have his 10 years as president and then ride off into the sunset leaving the mess behind.

gh on October 8, 2008 at 10:28 AM

“Obama is clueless about what it would take to stop genocide in Darfur”

Of course he is and any ROE that whatever pacifist clown act he appoints to SECDEF would of course put squirt guns in the hands of the American military.

NoDonkey on October 8, 2008 at 10:28 AM

However, Obama seemed to have little concern last year to the genocide that would have resulted from a precipitous pre-surge withdrawal from Iraq

Quite an assumption. Just who would have done the genocide? Sunnis? Shiites?

MB4 on October 8, 2008 at 10:28 AM

IF, Bush had bowed down to Saddam in 2003. The LEft/Media would be harping on this like Darfur, and we’d also be experts as a Nation on Saddams links to Terrorist. They would’ve called Bush “Derelect in Duty” for not taking care of Saddam, and ‘weak’ and how dangerous it was in light of 9/11

just see Al Gore go after Bush 41 in 1992 on this same subject

jp on October 8, 2008 at 10:29 AM

I was jumping up and down during this part of the debate, screaming for McCain to pounce on this inconsistency. “There was genocide going on in Iraq, my friends, so why was Obama against intervention”? In the end, however, McCain completely missed this golden opportunity to portray Obambi as a flip-flopping fool.

uncalheels on October 8, 2008 at 10:30 AM

This might make an interesting commercial. Add it to the long list of items on which Obama has flip-flopped since the primaries.

Tag line. He’ll say anything to get your vote, but what does he believe.

Then follow this commercial with a series of commercials on how Obama has voted. (When he bothered to show up to vote.)

MarkTheGreat on October 8, 2008 at 10:30 AM

You see, they are anti-American to the core. Any regime that works with American people is a traitor to the cause and the dictators and the tyrants who are on the wrong side of America are good people to them becuase they are standing up to the hegemon.

That’s why they hate Iraq and Pakistan, ignore Georgia and COlumbia but wnat to talk with Iran and Cuba.

promachus on October 8, 2008 at 10:20 AM

+1

funky chicken on October 8, 2008 at 10:32 AM

What the hell is going on with the Boston papers. They’ve been more critical of Obama than I expected. Maybe they’re PUMAs also since Hillary eviscerated Obama in the primaries in MA?

YellowDawg on October 8, 2008 at 10:25 AM

Just an opinion from an observer, but the liberals of MA do not like or trust Black racial politics. This is not the lineage of royal Democrats that they line up to follow without asking questions. There has been some very intense racial tension in the greater Boston area for several decades, and a Black candidate with ties to a racist hack like Wright will not be supported. Bostonians are hyper liberal, but they are not stupid.

Hening on October 8, 2008 at 10:32 AM

I’ve always hated the meme that we shouldn’t be in Iraq, because genocide has occurred there, and it was a good enough reason for the Clinton administration to go into Kosovo. For many on the left it is an argument of convenience to point at genocide and state that we should step in. By that argument we should have moved on Iraq years ago, but I digress.

I was disappointed with the response McCain gave on the question that Obama had used to lay this out. Obama answered first, and made what should have been an extreme tactical blunder. McCain is too worried about pointing to his and Obama’s voting record seems to be unwilling to show up Obama for the FOOL that he is, and missed the opportunity.

Marine_Bio on October 8, 2008 at 10:32 AM

Good points, but I venture to guess that nobody in the MSM will raise them (and anybody that does is a RACIST).

Ed, the fact that you raised these points in this post makes you a RACIST.

Rick on October 8, 2008 at 10:33 AM

Barack X seemed so concerned about Rwanda, but one of his foreign policy advisors (the disgusting Susan Rice) blocked Clinton from even trying to do something. When Barack X talks about stopping the genocide in Rwanda, I honestly think he means is it was wrong from the Hutus to stop killing Tutsis.

Oh, if any trolls doubt S. Rice’s complicity and her ties to Barack X, find the damned article yourself, its reasonably easy to fine.

PimFortuynsGhost on October 8, 2008 at 10:33 AM

Pretty sure he hedged his answer in there somewhere, but I dont have a transcript. It was an artful BS answer, starting off definitive and then giving himself wiggle room.

Dash on October 8, 2008 at 10:33 AM

I can’t believe we are going to be saddled with this dud. My country. My poor country. Only pain will focus our priorities

ronsfi on October 8, 2008 at 10:34 AM

God damn it. find, not fine.

PimFortuynsGhost on October 8, 2008 at 10:34 AM

OBambi is great on economics (insert guffaws here) and so we should consider his lack of concern for victims of genocide from a business standpoint. OBambi considers these people as sunk costs: dey wuh gonna die anywa.

AubieJon on October 8, 2008 at 10:35 AM

I can’t believe we are going to be saddled with this dud. My country. My poor country. Only pain Palin will focus our priorities

ronsfi on October 8, 2008 at 10:34 AM

Fixed it for you.

Marine_Bio on October 8, 2008 at 10:35 AM

Yes yes yes. I was going crazy over this last night. I hope the McCain campaign picks up on it.

MayBee on October 8, 2008 at 10:35 AM

How a guy who signs Susan Rice’s checks can even bear to form the word “Rwanda” is beyond me. Vile beyond the telling of it.

DrSteve on October 8, 2008 at 10:36 AM

This was a part of the debate that really caught my attention. When BO started babbling about “moral obligation” it was obvious that he was repeating typical lib talking points. Read any UK newspaper, and you will find that sort of discussion. They hate military interventions yet want to alleviate all that “dreadful fighting.” Since they can’t sort it out the end result is inaction.

Given Barry’s past associations I find it worrying when he attempts to define “moral obligations.” Like everything with BO his sense of what is moral seems quite arbitrary if it exists at all.

Cody1991 on October 8, 2008 at 10:36 AM

McCain isn’t a guy who lends himself to criticizing people. He is honorable and expects the same from others and doesn’t take the time to develop the skills to respond forcefully to people who act dishonorably. It’s called taking the high road and it is a distinct trait of a properly trained leader. But I guarantee you that by sometime this week, this exact point will be used against Oslime-a. His advisers will point this out in the next staff meeting.

csdeven on October 8, 2008 at 10:36 AM

“Obama is clueless about what it would take to stop genocide in Darfur”

Of course he is and any ROE that whatever pacifist clown act he appoints to SECDEF would of course put squirt guns in the hands of the American military.

NoDonkey on October 8, 2008 at 10:28 AM

YES. And that is how he will get our guys killed in the field.

Bush did the same in Iraq from late 2004 to late 2006, BTW. But McCain can’t say that in public.

Why didn’t McCain hit every hanging curve ball that Obama left hanging out there? It’s easy for us to say that from the comfort of our chairs, but I think we had better reflect upon the tightrope GOP candidates have to walk in these debates.

Every single gaffe, every single gesture, even something as simple as checking your wristwatch to see how much debate time had elapsed will cause an intense media barrage the next day.

funky chicken on October 8, 2008 at 10:36 AM

That bothered me as well. Why should we go into Darfur when we have nothing at stake, not even an ally, when he doesn’t even want us to ensure that genocide does not take place in Iraq? Why are some more worthy than others, even when those others have potential national security issues at stake?

That’s bothered me for a long time when it came to celebrities, and it angered me last night to hear Obama echoing the same points.

Esthier on October 8, 2008 at 10:36 AM

I guess that O! was for genocide before he was against it…

The bottom line was that this poseur was willing to contradict any reason put forth for staying in Iraq, in order to satisfy the nutroot base, during the Democrat primaries…

But now that he’s the new centrist version of O! he believes that any genocide provides the moral imperative for US military intervention; especially, it seems, in Africa…

It’s easy to second guess the actions of the past, and even easier to wring one’s hands and decry the choice of non-intervention in Rwanda and Darfur…

As always, O! is counting on being able to glibly bamboozle folks that don’t really pay attention to all of the issues surrounding his various foreign policy positions. It is up to all of us to point out his fallacies and contradictions of rationale whenever we can within our own little circles of influence…

RocketmanBob on October 8, 2008 at 10:37 AM

Shocking. I hope we see Governor Palin hammering Obama on this monumental flip-flop in the next few days. Screw Bill Ayers, Obama just buried himself on this and on Israel. Get some more of those “Not ready To lead” ads up with this stuff.

Oh, and add to that the “tragedy” of 9/11. No, Barack. Hurricane Katrina was a tragedy. 9/11 was an atrocity, a mass murder, a crime against humanity. An attempt at genocide, if you will.

rockmom on October 8, 2008 at 10:37 AM

This flip-flop by Oslime-a needs to be added to TheBigOldDogs list.

csdeven on October 8, 2008 at 10:37 AM

eucher on October 8, 2008 at 10:18 AM

My thoughts exactly!

Dr. Conservative on October 8, 2008 at 10:39 AM

MikeA on October 8, 2008 at 10:28 AM

3 shells and a pea approach.

a capella on October 8, 2008 at 10:39 AM

9/11 was an atrocity, a mass murder, a crime against humanity. An attempt at genocide, if you will.

I like it. That would make an awesome commercial.

Marine_Bio on October 8, 2008 at 10:40 AM

Obama to MSNBC in July 07:
“Well, look, if that’s the criteria by which we are making decisions on the deployment of U.S. forces, then by that argument you would have 300,000 troops in the Congo right now — where millions have been slaughtered as a consequence of ethnic strife — which we haven’t done,” Obama said in an interview with The Associated Press.

“We would be deploying unilaterally and occupying the Sudan, which we haven’t done. Those of us who care about Darfur don’t think it would be a good idea,” he said.

thedudesblog on October 8, 2008 at 10:43 AM

Let’s just say he likes some groups more than others.

Cody1991 on October 8, 2008 at 10:17 AM

Why yes, yes he does.

ChrisM on October 8, 2008 at 10:43 AM

the Truth is, the Democrats and Leftist worldwide, conspired to Politicize IRaq for Political Gain.

They are absolute Scumbags

jp on October 8, 2008 at 10:44 AM

Barry was for genocide before he was against it?

Or is it vice versa?

DelD on October 8, 2008 at 10:45 AM

Every single gaffe, every single gesture, even something as simple as checking your wristwatch to see how much debate time had elapsed will cause an intense media barrage the next day.

funky chicken on October 8, 2008 at 10:36 AM

Well, why don’t we see how intense the media barrage is regarding Barry’s position(s) on Israel defense, genocide, and how he’s going to fund his domestic programs with money saved by transferring troops in Iraq to Afghanistan.

a capella on October 8, 2008 at 10:45 AM

because there were NO GENOCIDE IN IRAQ.
you’re getting obtuse, Ed.

sashal on October 8, 2008 at 10:45 AM

Actually, if preventing genocide helps his stature, then it’s good to intervene. If however, it makes George Bush and the Republicans look good, intervention is unwarranted and too costly.

DakRoland on October 8, 2008 at 10:45 AM

HE WILL LIE AND SAY ANYTHING TO ANYONE AT ANY TIME. It’s from “Rules for Radicals”.

marklmail on October 8, 2008 at 10:46 AM

I caught that as well.

We must stop genocide, but not in Iraq.

drjohn on October 8, 2008 at 10:46 AM

Tim Russert was a huge loss for American political media.

hump1201 on October 8, 2008 at 10:22 AM

Something I think we can all agree on.

thePajamaPundit on October 8, 2008 at 10:48 AM

because there were NO GENOCIDE IN IRAQ.
you’re getting obtuse, Ed.

sashal on October 8, 2008 at 10:45 AM

1. Obama responded that preventing genocide was no reason to stay in Iraq. That was his argument.

2. What the hell would you call those mass graves we uncovered with 300,000 Iraqis? What would you call what happened to the Kurds?

Do you even have an argument better than “it’s not”?

Esthier on October 8, 2008 at 10:48 AM

I’m on a one-woman crusade to stop this liberal blather about 9/11 being a tragedy. If it were not for the brave people on Flight 93, I might have been killed that day. One of my best friends’ brother was killed in the Pentagon. I just attended the dedication of the Pentagon Memorial, where we remembered 167 innocent people, including babies and children, who were brutally murdered there. It is personal to me. We are dealing with monsters in this war, the likes of which we have never seen in our lifetimes. And they will come back to finish what they left undone on 9/11, if we do not remain vigilant and on the offensive.

rockmom on October 8, 2008 at 10:48 AM

I coulnd’t figure out why McCain didn’t attack on this either. I have to wonder if he just cracked under all of the pressure he knew he was under, or maybe he just wasn’t paying attention to half of what Obama said. All I know is that when he gave his convention speech and said “fight with me” I was ready to fight. Apparently he was not.

thevastlane on October 8, 2008 at 10:49 AM

He talked out of his butt but ya kow, he wasn’t all frail and soft like MCcain I hate to say. MCcain better take a damn vitamin for he next one. We’re going down.

johnnyU on October 8, 2008 at 10:50 AM

Darfur didn’t attack us on 9-11!

jeff_from_mpls on October 8, 2008 at 10:50 AM

Obama’s statements aren’t his own fault. They simply reflect the lack of clarity of the word “genocide” and the silly moral posturing that come with that word. “Genocide” is just another nonsense product of anti-racism and we’d be better off without “genocide”. The world is densely populated with people and hence evil states have the opportunity to murder lots of people. A few political leaders have killed people based on rather irrelevant identities like in Nazi Germany and Rwanda. But there have also been the Turks killing the Armenians and Greeks because they are Christian, which may or may not be a irrelevant identity, or Stalin killing the Kulaks, who resisted his regime, or Saddam Hussein killing the Kurds who resisted his regime, or North Korea’s concentration camps, or Pol Pot’s concentration camps, or any of the many other mass death injustices of the world. We make more sense when don’t try to sort these events into “genocide” or not–especially when the people doing the sorting wish to give extra credit evil points to those in the genocide category.

thuja on October 8, 2008 at 10:51 AM

Oh one more faux pas by Barack X: does this fool not realize that China is on the UNSC. No way in hell does action by a UN group with teeth pass his f%$#ing global test. If you want to see a “war for oil” look at the Chicoms in Darfur.

God, this guy is such a f%$#ing clown.

PimFortuynsGhost on October 8, 2008 at 10:51 AM

Jan 30th, 2009

Breaking News: U.S.S. Enterprise rechristened U.S.S. Meals-on-Wheels. Crew of 5,000 Peace Corp head out to dig slit trenches and deliver U.N. bribe money.

Limerick on October 8, 2008 at 10:51 AM

Barack Obama doesn’t care about white people.

saint kansas on October 8, 2008 at 10:51 AM

Esthier on October 8, 2008 at 10:48 AM

Like I said earlier, an argument of convenience, not consistency.

It takes an intentional effort to ignore all the evidence of the Kurd atrocities. It was even covered by the MSM.

Marine_Bio on October 8, 2008 at 10:53 AM

Li’l Barack was only 26 years old when Saddam Hussein murdered the Shi’ites.

So, like, duh! Get off his back.

jeff_from_mpls on October 8, 2008 at 10:55 AM

The Left has two criteria for supporting a war:

1) The war cannot be in America’s interests. That is why Darfur is good, Iraq is bad.

2) The war cannot be a war we are fighting now. If we are in Iraq, they want us fighting in Darfur. If we abandoned Iraq for Darfur, the Left would be demanding that we fight in Iraq.

We can condense this to a General Rule of the Left and Wars: If it doesn’t help America, and it involves doing whatever we are not currently doing, it is good.

__________

RJGatorEsq. on October 8, 2008 at 10:55 AM

Oh one more faux pas by Barack X: does this fool not realize that China is on the UNSC. No way in hell does action by a UN group with teeth pass his f%$#ing global test. If you want to see a “war for oil” look at the Chicoms in Darfur.

God, this guy is such a f%$#ing clown.

PimFortuynsGhost on October 8, 2008 at 10:51 AM

Good point. Barry appears to have grand plans for aiding Africa. Since China is exploiting their resources BO should persuade the Chinese to empty their pockets for Africa, not the US. Ain’t gonna happen despite what this clown thinks of his abilities. China could care less, so BO will try to steal from American taxpayers.

This guy is a dangerous fool.

Cody1991 on October 8, 2008 at 10:58 AM

McCain will bring out a new ad in a week or so with this theme and show the two Obama quotes about it and have the “But is he ready to lead?” question at the end.
But no viewer will get it or care.
Most people probably could not define the word “genocide”. Suicide of gens?
———

McCain missed a great opportunity.

albill on October 8, 2008 at 10:59 AM

Barack Obama doesn’t care about white people.

saint kansas on October 8, 2008 at 10:51 AM

From one of his memoirs…

It is this world, a world where cruise ships throw away more food in a day than most residents of Port-au-Prince see in a year, where white folks’ greed runs a world in need, apartheid in one hemisphere, apathy in another hemisphere…That’s the world! On which hope sits!

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 8, 2008 at 11:01 AM

I really don’t think the term genocide applies to what Saddam was doing in Iraq. It’s not like he was systematically trying to kill off a certain religious or ethnic group. He was an equal opportunity killer. Anyone who stood in his way, was killed. His chemical gas attacks in Halabja were directed at a village he saw as traitorous, and had nothing to do with their genome.

Let’s not carried away with watering down words such as genocide.

Seixon on October 8, 2008 at 11:02 AM

No, no, no, not God bless America, God damn America!

Obama 2008.

jeff_from_mpls on October 8, 2008 at 11:02 AM

It’s because they are black, and not arabs?

Mercy4Me on October 8, 2008 at 11:03 AM

I keep thinking Team McCain has some kind of future “plan” when he misses such obvious opportunities to nail Barry.

Anyone? Bueller?

ex-Democrat on October 8, 2008 at 11:05 AM

I heard obama mention this, and his standards, we should have been in Iraq along time ago.

ConservativePartyNow on October 8, 2008 at 11:06 AM

Let’s not carried away with watering down words such as genocide.

Ummmm….the Kurds gassing is genocide. Nothing about saddam is being “watered down.”

ex-Democrat on October 8, 2008 at 11:07 AM

Either Obama is confused, or he only cares about genocides when it doesn’t involve Iraqis.

He only cares about the genocide in Darfur because the U.N. blames man made global warming as a cause, and because of the reason we can’t talk about because we’ll be called racists if we do.

In the debate I heard him state very clearly that the way he would pay for some of his domestic proposals would be to end the war in Iraq and bring the troops home, reassigning the billions of dollars per week being spent there to build domestic programs. Only minutes later he was claiming that he would pull the troops out of Iraq and send them to Afghanistan, because that was the center of the war on terror.

MikeA on October 8, 2008 at 10:28 AM

I heard that too.

Buy Danish on October 8, 2008 at 11:07 AM

It was even covered by the MSM.

Marine_Bio on October 8, 2008 at 10:53 AM

You’re right that would take some willful ignorance. Guess some people really can’t handle the truth.

Esthier on October 8, 2008 at 11:09 AM

Oh one more faux pas by Barack X: does this fool not realize that China is on the UNSC. No way in hell does action by a UN group with teeth pass his f%$#ing global test. If you want to see a “war for oil” look at the Chicoms in Darfur.

God, this guy is such a f%$#ing clown.

PimFortuynsGhost on October 8, 2008 at 10:51 AM

Colin Powell could give a very instructive interview on his efforts re: Sudan. But it won’t fit the MSM narrative, so it will never happen.

funky chicken on October 8, 2008 at 11:10 AM

“we have moral issues at stake.” Of course the United States must act to stop genocide, he said. “When genocide is happening, when ethnic cleansing is happening . . . and we stand idly by, that diminishes us.”
SuperOBonzo

“Now let me be clear – I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He’s a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.”
SuperOBonzo

“Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said Thursday the United States cannot use its military to solve humanitarian problems and that preventing a potential genocide in Iraq isn’t a good enough reason to keep US forces there,”
EmptySuitOBonzo

Summation of the “OBonzo Doctrine”:

“We have a moral obligation to prevent genocide…. We’ll Jibber-jabber against it… Not actually DO anything.”

“Walk softly, but carry a big stick”

Giving the big stick to OBonzo, would be like giving a 16lb. bowling ball to a two year old.

franksalterego on October 8, 2008 at 11:11 AM

He was an equal opportunity killer. Anyone who stood in his way, was killed.

True, but the “anyone” often meant any ethnic group, and he did specifically target the entire ethnic group. I would think that’s the very definition of the word unless we’re to argue that he gets extra points for committing genocide on several groups, but isn’t that what Hitler did too? After all, he didn’t just target Jews.

Esthier on October 8, 2008 at 11:14 AM

Seixon on October 8, 2008 at 11:02 AM

I agree. Saddam had an “anybody but Sunnis” approach that his was implementing. So what if races/sects had to die, right?

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 8, 2008 at 11:15 AM

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 8, 2008 at 11:15 AM

kill “anybody but Sunnis” approach

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 8, 2008 at 11:16 AM

This guy is a dangerous fool.

Cody1991 on October 8, 2008 at 10:58 AM

This guy is a dangerous fool with a media that is not at all determined to provide the checks and balances in what he says or does, let alone what his party says or does. The seeds of the economic meltdown is the best and most topical example one would need. If the MSM had Republican Senators or Representatives on video claiming there was no need for concern or further regulation, it would be running 24/7 with MSNBC exposes on how the country can survive with even one Republican President. As it is, it’s the other way around and there’s almost nothing.

I wonder in the long term if we will get to the point where it’s really just Democratic propaganda. (We’re not “quite” there yet)

And I know I comment a lot about my point of view from the military side but the Iraq rhetoric breaks my heart. And in the short term, the thing that saddens me as I sit in my office here at Ft. Bragg is that it seems the media has already framed the war that those who I’ve deployed with and I have fought in as a mistake with the outcome still dubious. Although I thought McCain held his own last night, the concept of struggling a victory out of a national mistake was still there by Obama. And I wish my guy would have made the point that if the good Senator from Illinois was willing to fight at least to stop genocide, what’s his lingering opposition to Iraq?

hawkdriver on October 8, 2008 at 11:21 AM

Jacoby misses the point.

Obama thinks that US force is only justified when there is no US interest at stake. Brokaw put it right in the question.

Moderator Tom Brokaw asked the candidates what their “doctrine” would be “in situations where there’s a humanitarian crisis, but it does not affect our national security,” such as “the Congo, where 4.5 million people have died since 1998,” or Rwanda or Somalia.

In other words, if the US has an security interest in the outcome, the use of US force is not appropriate.

gridlock2 on October 8, 2008 at 11:23 AM

It’s interesting that Mr “we havel moral obligations” felt obligated to wander down to Kenya — on our nickel — to campaign for a man who is responsible for the slaughter of plenty of black people.

I guess Cousin Odinga gets the blessed Osama Obama Free Pass.

MrScribbler on October 8, 2008 at 11:26 AM

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