Survey USA: Obama by 15 in Pennsylvania
posted at 2:01 pm on October 7, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Another horrifying SUSA state poll that oversamples Dems (50/39), another lead so wide that even a correctly weighted sample probably still equals a double-digit advantage for The One. Quinnipiac also had him by 15 last week and something called Morning Call Tracking has him up 10. The RCP spread: 11 points, four more than the current margin in Michigan, where Maverick’s already abandoned ship.
The most alarming number:
Obama today leads among PA men and women, young and old, rich and poor, more educated and less educated. McCain leads among Republicans, conservatives, pro-life voters, and gun owners. 21% of Republicans cross over to vote for Obama; 16% of Democrats cross over to vote for McCain. Independents break 2:1 for Obama.
The CBS poll last night had McCain marginally ahead among indies nationally so maybe this is an outlier, but I’m not sure what to make of the idea that Obama’s suddenly pulling more Republicans than McCain is Democrats. It’s been the opposite all year thanks to the PUMAs. But if that number’s an outlier too, why were there also more Obamicans than McCainocrats in the Virginia and New Hampshire polls from yestrerday? Given that Rasmussen has The One by eight and Gallup by nine, it’s probably CBS that’s the outlier, not SUSA.
Exit question: What would qualify as a gamechanger tonight? Gingrich and Rich Lowry agree that the only way out lies through a compelling economic message, but the economy’s always been a subplot to Maverick’s campaign. To remake his whole candidacy as an economic warrior a month out from election day would feel like a, er, stunt, but what choice does he have?
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I don’t understand why the “analysis” wasn’t ended right here.
Besides, as others pointed out, McCain never had much more than a slim chance in PA.
Missy on October 7, 2008 at 3:42 PM
I think there are republicans or so they say…I think they just want to be on the right side of the vote…hence not real republicans. McCain could get one vote and it would be mine.
tomas on October 7, 2008 at 3:43 PM
Posted this again
(Seems to have disappeared the first time)
According to major American polling organizations Obama is so far ahead of John McCain that some pundits are predicting a landslide – and I am too: but for McCain/Palin.
There’s an emotional bias to this: I simply don’t believe Americans are stupid enough to vote Obama into office – but then I couldn’t believe anyone would vote for Clinton over the first President Bush either.
Luckily, there’s a more rational basis too: specifically, I think there’s some evidence that there’s something fundamentally wrong with polling these days – and it’s possible to guess that the underlying cause is a difference in willingness to answer polls between the two sides.
The evidence is based on human behavior, specifically on a consequence of Leon Festinger’s theory of cognitive dissonance. That theory predicts that people will seek out information confirming already held views while actively avoiding contrary information.
Consider, with this in mind, the complete contradiction between the polling numbers reported with respect to attitudes toward Sarah Palin and the actual turnout and enthusiasm you see everywhere she turns up. The polls are uniformly negative but the reality is that Republican organizers can’t find stadiums big enough to hold the crowds she draws.
Similarly polls done for movie studios uniformly show the strongest market for anti-war movies since the end of the sixties – but the actual movies flub horribly at the box office.
The dissonance reducing behavior predicted by Festinger’s theory has been demonstrated many times – and not least by the success of sites like the dailykos and hotair.com. But, if the polls are right, movies like Zucker’s An American Carol should be box office failures – and things like Redacted blockbusters – while John McCain and Sarah Palin should draw only a handful of depressed supporters to major market events.
Since the theory suggests a disconnect between polling results and what we’re seeing people spend time and money on, we have two choices: either the theory is wrong, or the polls are wrong.
A lot of people have put a lot of effort into debunking Festinger’s theory – but, in general, its predictions seem to hold up.
When we look at the polls, however, the field is both much more varied and much more questionable – it’s easy, for example, for a very small group of committed people to mislead panel surveys by working on a few panel members, or for a slightly larger group to mislead pollsters relying on random samples by giving misleading answers on the questions used to compute sample weights.
And what that tells me, is that the polls are wrong.
Paul Murphy on October 7, 2008 at 3:45 PM
I like this board but these alarmist posts about polls are really grating. Obama is going to win PA but no where near by 15 points. Pennsylvania Republicans are always undercounted and the races almost always come down to how well the Philadelphia machine turns out Democrats and how well Republicans do in the ‘T’ that represents the bitter white people Obama loathes. Santorum in 2006 was a noteable exception but his goose was cooked early on and the Casey name recognition in PA is like 5 points right there.
Anyway, I digest. If you want to panic, look at Virginia, Colorado and Nevada. McCain needs Virginia, would feel much better if he had it as well as both Colorado and Nevada.
Speaking of Nevada. ACORN offices here in Las Vegas were raided today. If this gets enough play locally watch the numbers switch just enough to make Barry pour money and bodies in here that he thought he could use elsewhere.
grdred944 on October 7, 2008 at 3:49 PM
Actually, I feel more sorry for you than angry at you. Assuming you’re American, you’ve had the good fortune to be born in this country–to have the opportunity to make whatever you want of your life. I came from very humble roots here and was the first in my family to graduate high school, college, and earn a higher degree. I could not have done that anywhere else but here–if nothing else, even in socialist Europe, class distinctions would have kept me down–and yes, they most definitely still exist in Europe. I also had the good fortune to attend public school at a time when patriotism was still instilled in the students…when we had to take a course on American government and a full year of American history–and not the apologetic variety taught in today’s schools. And, since I went to school during the Cold War, in order to graduate I had to take a course in which I learned from an excellent instructor all of the fallacies of Marxism and just how precious our system really is. Unfortunately, students today don’t enjoy those simple advantages–it’s up to us as parents to instill the values of duty, honor, and country to our children–to make them proud of this country.
To philnewkirk and his type: All I can say is that if you want to vote for Obama–that is your right as a citizen of this country. But please, before you do so, make sure you know exactly who and what you are voting for and ask yourself–do you really want to take a chance on this man? If your answer is yes, then do as your conscience dictates–but make your decision with your eyes open.
Matt Helm on October 7, 2008 at 3:53 PM
No, it’s Axelrod Day. Congratulations, you win.
Jim Treacher on October 7, 2008 at 3:59 PM
Actually, it’s Humiliate the Liberal Troll Day. From the looks of things, it’s going swimmingly.
ManlyRash on October 7, 2008 at 4:01 PM
I think the strategy of the Democratic Party and the media is to make McCain supporter to think is all over. I was hopping that People in NJ and PA will vote for McCain since both of our states are run by very incompetent democratic governors.
pukara61 on October 7, 2008 at 4:03 PM
I was just watching FOX and it sounds to me like Hume has already given the election to Obama. I can tell you one thing, he and some of his other talking heads are not the kind people I’d want with me in fight . . . I’d be standing alone taking all the blows and they’d be making a dust trail down the road.
rplat on October 7, 2008 at 4:04 PM
What a putz, bless his heart.
tru2tx on October 7, 2008 at 4:04 PM
I’m still very concerned but a week ago I thought they were dead in the water and part of that was their keeping Palin locked up. But, that could have been part of a bigger plan all along or they realized after the debates that they need to get her front and center.
Palin is a remarkable public speaker. Not for the substance but for her delivery. Even when she gets heckled she is cool under pressure. You know she scares the hell out of Team O as the X Factor. She has been giving the same stump speech since the debates blasting Obama for Ayers and all three cable news networks still saw fit to run it live. Fox for the second day in a row carried her stump speech live. The cable networks know that if someone is channel surfing between stations and sees Palin, they will stop. Even MSNBC had her on this morning.
Anyway, Palin has more support than the MSM will allow us to believe. Between that and the hard truth that many people who say they support Obama will not vote for him helps McCain. Hillary won PA because so many of the Reagan Democrats in coal country just will not vote for a black man for President. You can call that racist but it is also the truth just as most blacks in Philadelphia will not vote for someone over a black man.
grdred944 on October 7, 2008 at 4:04 PM
“Broad?” She is as far above the term “broad” as you are below the term “manly”. And btw, Reagan spoke the same way she does. And she has more executive experience than any of the other candidates… unless you include the military leadership of McCain as executive experience. Neither Obama, nor Biden, have ANY executive experience.
dominigan on October 7, 2008 at 4:06 PM
If I thought for one second that Obama was Marxist or unAmerican or risky, I would support the guy who I voted for in 2000 — Senator McCain.
philnewkirk on October 7, 2008 at 4:09 PM
Sure thing there Spanky…what ever you say.
LOL
Old Hippie Vet on October 7, 2008 at 4:20 PM
This’ll make you smile: ACORN Vegas Office Raided in Voter Fraud Investigation (from Foxnews.com)
smellthecoffee on October 7, 2008 at 4:30 PM
It’s all just the lies of the MSM! We have retaken the airport. There are NO Americans there. I will take you there and show you, IN ONE HOUR!
Just as Ace said, everything is awesomely awesome!
paul006 on October 7, 2008 at 4:43 PM
So is this you saying you don’t think he is? Would you like me to take your blinders off?
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 7, 2008 at 4:46 PM
How does that Bible verse go: There is none so blind as he who will not see? Unfortunately, you can’t make someone see who doesn’t want to see. Many are being taken in by Obama’s smooth rhetoric, his platitudes of hope and change, his promises that cannot be kept, but the only thing they hear and want to hear is “change”. Edmund Burke once said that society is a three-way social compact. Before embarking on change, we must ask ourselves these questions: “What would our ancestors think of what we are doing to the institutions and constitution they have bequeathed us; how will this change affect the present generation; and finally, how will this change affect our progeny.
Those flocking to Obama are only interested in the “now”. They are disregarding the past and the future.
Matt Helm on October 7, 2008 at 4:57 PM
You can try, but I think at this stage in the game most people are set on their choice.
philnewkirk on October 7, 2008 at 4:57 PM
McCain had better make up for lost opportunities, and had better not pass any up this evening.
If he can’t hit hard, if he wont’t hit hard, then why try from this evening on out?
We’ll have to weather four years of darkness in the land of milk and honey and wait for Palin to save us in 2012.
madmonkphotog on October 7, 2008 at 5:07 PM
It is a sad day indeed when facts no longer matter. I pity you greatly, above even my disgust for you.
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 7, 2008 at 5:23 PM
If people believe these polls, is it any wonder the market is tanking?
Vashta.Nerada on October 7, 2008 at 5:27 PM
Who the hell knows? I don’t really think Obama is ahead this much in Pa, but I guess we will find out. I guess it goes to show you that a smooth talking con man with a lot of illegally raised money and a media on his side, really can buy an election. If it is true. I prefer to wait for the election.
I know I would not trust Obama to balance his own check book, much less handle the nation’s economy. Especially now.
Terrye on October 7, 2008 at 5:27 PM
Vashta:
I heard that one reason for the market tanking is the near panic that some traders and financial types feel at the idea of an Obama presidency. High taxes, protectionism, etc.
Terrye on October 7, 2008 at 5:30 PM
I care.
philnewkirk on October 7, 2008 at 5:32 PM
That’s some good Conservative Christian Concern.
Jim Treacher on October 7, 2008 at 5:39 PM
That’s a good possibility–I still can’t see how people can believe that he’s going to cut the taxes for 95% of the population, raise the funding for all of his magic panacea programs and cut expenses by raising the revenues on the other 5%–talk about voodoo economics! Add to that increased tariffs and higher corporate income and capital gains taxes…(doing my best Fred Rogers imitation) Can you say “Depression”…sure you can.
I figure regardless of who becomes president, the market will probably drop to between 5,000 and 7,500 before stabilizing. But if Obama is elected, I fully expect it will crash and burn and future generations will be cursing his name.
Matt Helm on October 7, 2008 at 5:55 PM
But but, the fundamentals of our economy are strong!
philnewkirk on October 7, 2008 at 6:00 PM
In the last few days we have seen evidence here on HA that SNL sees what’s wrong with the economy, as well as idiots like Alex Baldwin and Jim Cramer. But Obama’s up by 15 points in PA? Have Americans become this stupid? Dumber than Baldwin and Cramer and the lib writers for SNL? Because if Americans have become this stupid, there really isn’t much hope.
sloopy on October 7, 2008 at 6:02 PM
Hang on, sloopy…sloopy, hang on…
Sorry about that–couldn’t resist. :)
Remember what El Rushbo said, don’t worry about the polls until the last week or so prior to the election. Use this as an incentive to jump start yourself.
Matt Helm on October 7, 2008 at 6:15 PM
philnewkirk:
Actually the fundamentals of the economy are strong. If by fundamentals you mean the American working force and our capitalist system. Maybe Obama thinks America is fundamentally screwed up, so he wants to turn us into Europe, but right now their socialist and heavily regulated economies are not doing any better than ours. This is a credit crunch, and it can and will effect the rest of the economy but that does not mean that America’s foundations and fundamentals are screwed up.
Terrye on October 7, 2008 at 6:16 PM
Matt:
I think Obama looks at this crisis like a vulture looks at road kill. Yummy.
He will try to feed of it.
But he still has not explained how he is going to keep all the promises he is making.
Oh yeah, he will tax people like himself, the rich and pampered.
Terrye on October 7, 2008 at 6:19 PM
How good is that Hotline poll that Allah linked to? It has McCain two back and gaining.
Terrye on October 7, 2008 at 6:20 PM
Terrye:
Oh definitely, “Bugs” Obama is nothing but a scavenger. (BTW, “Bugs” comes from “Bugs” Moran–another Chicago hood.)
The simple truth is that he can’t keep his promises and he knows that. He sees this country as ripe for the picking…and if he gets elected he’s going to take all of us to the cleaners.
Matt Helm on October 7, 2008 at 6:23 PM
They didn’t sample anyone from Erie? Bradford? Northwest PA in general? EPIC FAIL!
SouthernGent on October 7, 2008 at 6:54 PM
Yep. Again, to the inside the beltway elitist, it is simply inconceivable that two people without a single Ive League degree to share between them could be elected first and second executive of the nation. Their friends at all those cocktail parties also snicker behind their hands that McCain and Palin both have Jr. Enlisted troops as sons. I mean, everybody knows that only idiots enlist in the military, right?
They want McCain/Palin to lose so they can restore their own kind to the “rightful” leadership of the GOP. I’ve got news for them though….if they succeed in defeating John McCain, they will no longer be able to count on overwhelming support from the troops. Military people aren’t stupid, and they know exactly what the leadership of the democrat party thinks about them. If the GOP elitists can’t rouse themselves to support our men and women in harm’s way, and would rather sink a knife in their backs by helping to elect Obama, well, …
funky chicken on October 7, 2008 at 7:04 PM
Phil Newkirk: One thing. Think. Think hard.
And this poll is from bizarrro world. Spoken from inside Pa. where Obama gets NO votes from the 16 registered voters in my immediate family (mom, brothers, sisters, kids) — which has 7 registered Dems. And it’s ain’t race that’s the issue — it’s his Marx-tinged Fascism.
However, my one brother-in-law in Va. is a serious KoolAid drinker. He is offset by my sister-in-law.
The other inlaws are solidly pro-Palin/McCain. [Yes, that's the way I intended it.]
either orr on October 7, 2008 at 7:10 PM
Another post on polls, I put this in another thread too. It is from AJ at Strata-Sphere
It seems McCain is not the only one who took a hit in the public eye on the financial bailout – Obama is also starting to lose ground. Two recent polls show the erosion. First is a Democracy Corps poll I noted in an earlier post, which has some interesting internals. On key issues Obama has lost his edge:
* Shares Your Values: 47-47 (a tie)
* Independent: 43-46 (+3 McCain)
* Strong Leader: 42-51 (+9 McCain)
* Economy: 49-43 (-6 McCain)
* Stands Up To Special Interests: 45-44 (-1 McCain)
* National Security: 34-60 (+26 McCain)
* Financial Crisis: 46-44 (-2 McCain)
What these illustrate is the fact McCain and Obama are becoming equals on economic issues, but McCain is getting kudos for being a strong and independent leader, and huge kudos on national security.
The second poll is the Diageo/Hotline Poll which also shows massive erosion for Obama:
After trailing by 5-7 pts. for the last 10 days, McCain is now just 2 pts. behind Obama.
…
Obama’s one-time lead on the question of who’d best handle the economy has evaporated. Today, Obama and McCain are tied at 42%. Independent voters favor McCain on the economy by an 8 pt. margin (42-34%).
That is a precipitous drop going from +7 to +2 (basically a tie) in only a few days. I am not surprised to see this “a pox on both your houses” attitude hitting the public. The ‘bailout’ did not give immediate gratification and stop the hemorrhaging on Wall Street. Dick Morris was right when he predicted the race would tighten, though I doubt even he thought it would be this quick. If Obama loses his edge on the economy he probably cannot pull out a win. Morris may be right on another angle here – Obama peaked too soon.
Terrye on October 7, 2008 at 7:12 PM
He won’t do that. Theodore Roosevelt made a pledge to not run for reelection, and his entire 4 year term was very frustrating, because the opposition treated him like a lame duch the whole time.
Roosevelt is McCain’s political hero, so I would guess he learned from that.
funky chicken on October 7, 2008 at 7:14 PM
Fixed.
fossten on October 8, 2008 at 7:41 AM
FIFY.
philnewkirk on October 8, 2008 at 1:11 PM
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