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Was sub-prime lending ever a good idea?

posted at 12:55 pm on October 6, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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A new video has Barack Obama speaking in 2007 about the burgeoning crisis in the financial markets, but focusing on accounting fraud rather than the root cause of the meltdown: the widespread issuance of bad credit, securitized by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac at the behest of Congress. In this audio clip, Obama defends the idea of subprime lending just over a year ago:

Here is the clip in full context:

Subprime lending started off as a good idea – helping Americans buy homes who couldn’t previously afford to. Financial institutions created new financial instruments that could securitize these loans, slice them into finer and finer risk categories and spread them out among investors around the country and around the world.

In theory, this should have allowed mortgage lending to be less risky and more diversified. But as certain lenders and brokers began to see how much money could be made, they began to lower their standards. Some appraisers began inflating their estimates to get the deals done. Some borrowers started claiming income they didn’t have just to qualify for the loans, and some were engaging in irresponsible speculation. But many borrowers were tricked into glossing over the fine print. And ratings agencies began rating bundles of different kinds of these loans as low-risk even though they were very high-risk.

Most everyone knew that some of these deals were just too good to be true, but all that money flowing in made it tempting to look the other way and ignore the unscrupulous practice of some bad actors.

This leaves out a couple of crucial factors.  “All that money flowing” came from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which created a boom market in the sub-prime market at the behest of Congress.  They wanted to increase the market for subprime loans, and they did so by essentially creating profit on every loan, whether it made sense or not.  Fannie and Freddie removed all of the normal correctives of the market by ensuring a short-term profit on almost every piece of paper written.

The second factor is that subprime lending is almost by definition not a good idea.  While most people would agree that home ownership is a benefit to the individual as well as the community, the lending of money to people who can’t afford it is a fundamentally destabilizing practice.  Defaults increase bankruptcies and lower property values, and ruin the financial prospects of families for years.   Lending markets had rational criteria for lending before the government provided massive and irrational incentives for subprime lending, and the price of housing remained very stable in relation to inflation.  Government meddling created the housing bubble and its deflation has touched off a worldwide financial panic.

Barack Obama’s entire economic argument is incoherent on this point.  He argued that during the Bush years, working families went backwards economically while only a few profited.  Yet home ownership blossomed during that same period, thanks to the wildfire Fannie and Freddie set in lending markets.  If families were falling backwards as Obama claims, then subprime lending was a very bad idea.

Anyone arguing that subprime lending was essentially a good idea has obviously learned nothing from the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the poison they introduced to the investment sector.  The best way to boost home ownership is to build a strong economy in which job creation allows upward mobility throughout the entire economy, and to keep taxes low enough to encourage the kind of investment that creates jobs.  Instead of forcing or enticing lenders to take irrational risks with credit, the government would have done much better to build people into position to own homes on a rational basis.


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Subprime lending started off as a good idea – helping Americans buy homes who couldn’t previously afford to. Financial institutions created new financial instruments that could securitize these loans, slice them into finer and finer risk categories and spread them out among investors around the country and around the world.

Thus we have the cause of the global meltdown.

Ya know if McCain were actually talking about this; it might help.

Just a thought or something. Ya know. I know Ayers is all fun to talk about. But can we try to get serious here?

This is an anchor around his neck. And democrats’ neck.

lorien1973 on October 6, 2008 at 12:58 PM

Was sub-prime lending ever a good idea?

No.

Next question.

thirteen28 on October 6, 2008 at 12:59 PM

Great post. The ability of Democrats to assign blame for the subprime crisis to the Republicans and “de-regulation” is on par with the Devil convincing the world that he does not exist.

furytrader on October 6, 2008 at 12:59 PM

Most everyone knew that some of these deals were just too good to be true, but all that money flowing in made it tempting to look the other way and ignore the unscrupulous practice of some bad actors.

Shouldn’t the buck rest with the Government regulation? F&F were GSEs, after all.

lodge on October 6, 2008 at 1:01 PM

Heh, apparently “Americans don’t know that you can’t spend like a drunken sailor” to paraphrase McCain’s line on govt. spending.

This Congress, and the spinless Repugs who voted for the Sell-Out, are unbelievable.

VolMagic on October 6, 2008 at 1:01 PM

Why is a man this dangerous to America leading in the polls? I am seriously concerned about this. Conservative talk radio is now talking about an Obama win as being inevitable. NO IT ISN’T!

Spread the word.

Obama’s Endorsers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wIr9qSWKlw

Influences: Obama’s Communist Father
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMGyFREA_2s

Influences: Obama’s Communist Mentor – Frank Marshall Davis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tddfiG70pQ0

cannonball on October 6, 2008 at 1:01 PM

Maxine Waters thinks its a brilliant idea!!

and Barney Frank,

and Chris Dodd,

and,………….I hope McCain makes them
famous tomorrow night,me hopes!!

canopfor on October 6, 2008 at 1:02 PM

But Obama spoke out against sub-prime mortgages two years ago. Joe Biden told me so.

carbon_footprint on October 6, 2008 at 1:02 PM

Name names McCain. Make them famous. Fight, fight, fight and all that.

ctmom on October 6, 2008 at 1:02 PM

And just judging by normal market high and lows, those houses are going to look like ghetto homes before this is all over….

…Oops!!

Was that a racist statement?

Mcguyver on October 6, 2008 at 1:04 PM

Why would anyone expect rational economic analysis from BHO? All he knows is what his socialist professors taught him at Columbia.

Cicero43 on October 6, 2008 at 1:04 PM

McCain had such an opportunity to lay this Fanny/Freddie, which started the fire, on Franks and Dodd, et all, mostly democrats who pushed Fanny/Freddie to loan to most any warm body, with those warm bodies having now defaulted on their obligations setting off this whole downward cascade.

That opportunity is probably now gone.

MB4 on October 6, 2008 at 1:04 PM

McCain: you said you know how to win a war.

THIS IS A WAR FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR COUNTRY.

Now go win the battle tomorrow night in Nashville.

JustTruth101 on October 6, 2008 at 1:06 PM

Palin needs to break ranks and talk about this. McCain is done. Set yourself up for 2012.

This is just incredible that McCain won’t even go there. I hate this guy. I really do.

lorien1973 on October 6, 2008 at 1:07 PM

The press has been harping on increasing bankruptcy rates seemingly since Bush took office, as if it’s his fault. Oh well, we all make honest mistakes.

Akzed on October 6, 2008 at 1:08 PM

There’s nothing wrong with sub-prime lending, so long as the interest rates accurately reflect the risk. But accurate interest rates would prohibit most sub-primes from ever getting generated, since they would be very high in many cases. That’s where the problem comes in. Freddie/Fannie then made the market in sub-primes at far too low an interest rate, by their idiotic overpriced purchasing of bad sub-prime loans to clear lenders’ inventories and send them back out to generate more mispriced loans, using the backing of the US government to do it. Gotta love the entitlement/social engineering mind.

progressoverpeace on October 6, 2008 at 1:08 PM

McCain has now dropped from 7 behind to 8 behind in both Gallup and Ras.

MB4 on October 6, 2008 at 1:09 PM

Listen people. We are all searching for Utopia here. All this looking back and quoting me stuff is just getting in the way of my achieving Nirvana message. Can’t we just apply a simple willing suspension of disbelief and crown me already?

/do i need to add sarc?

Mr_Magoo on October 6, 2008 at 1:09 PM

MB4 on October 6, 2008 at 1:09 PM

Thanks toad. Go away.

Mr_Magoo on October 6, 2008 at 1:09 PM

Don’t forget to click Buzz Up!

Mr_Magoo on October 6, 2008 at 1:11 PM

Dow -500 today(so far). How are those ‘taxpayer protections’ working out Barry?

Limerick on October 6, 2008 at 1:11 PM

I first got into finance in 1980, when the Dow and gold were both about 800.
Car loans were 16 to 19 %
GM came out with 9.9% loans and the world thought that was the greatest. (round two coming soon)
.
It is NEVER good to have sub-prime BUYERS or LOANS.
The reality is the buyers were sub-prime, sub-average, sub-working.
.
My lenders would have laughed me out of the state, and my employer would have FIRED me if I turned in ONE ap for a person who had no job, no income, no history, no way to pay for the loan.
.
Sub-Prime; the NEW ENTITLEMENT SOCIALISM of Carter errr Clinton, ok, OBAMA.

shooter on October 6, 2008 at 1:13 PM

I am passing this around. Very scary! Obama’s connection with communist Raila Odinga, a relative and close friend. Raila is also running a campaign based on “Change” and fanning the flames of violence in Kenya.
Watch until the end to see the close connections Obama has with this man, even helping him at rallies!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QcpdUtxNQ&feature=related

JellyToast on October 6, 2008 at 1:14 PM

Subprime lending started off as a good idea – helping Americans buy homes who couldn’t previously afford to.

Translation: Subprime lending eased up borrowing standards enough to put people without the means into homes they couldn’t afford with particular emphasis on minority home ownership.

highhopes on October 6, 2008 at 1:14 PM

Sure it was, good for REPARATIONS …

tarpon on October 6, 2008 at 1:14 PM

An earlier dispatch from Obama adviser Austan Goolsbee, currently residing next to the oil pan:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/business/29scene.html?pagewanted=print

DrSteve on October 6, 2008 at 1:15 PM

The issue needs to be reduced to its simplest and easiest to digest components – “Wall Street Greed” is a simple message (not completely true, but easy). So is “Barack Obama spoke out against this 2 years ago” (again, not true as far I know, but easy).

HawaiiLwyr on October 6, 2008 at 1:15 PM

The people that designed these investment vehicles were mathematicians that didn’t fully understand market risks (started with faulty assumptions/parameters,) and the market people didn’t understand how poorly the risks were accounted for in these very complicated investment vehicles. So as long as the housing market was climbing, everybody was a genius. But once the market broke away from everybody’s starting assumptions, started falling like a rock, then nothing worked any more, and the risks couldn’t be hidden anymore. The investment banks had some insurance to cover minor floods in mortgage securities, but they looked out this year and saw a tidal wave coming.

RBMN on October 6, 2008 at 1:15 PM

Oh well, Election ‘08 was fun…still can’t believe we got stuck with McAmnesty for it though. I hope the USA of 2012 is at least a shadow of itself from 2008…

Palin ‘12!

Rogue on October 6, 2008 at 1:16 PM

If McCain would blame this on Congress, since that is where the blames lays, he may just pick up a few points. The people aren’t stupid, but the politicians evidently are.

bopbottle on October 6, 2008 at 1:18 PM

It’s like we have an entire generation of folk who want what they want and want to take short cuts to get there no matter the long term consequences. Now that the consequences are here there is only lying to cya and to get elected and the problem isn’t fixed. We have no honesty and no leadership in government. We have little discernment in the electorate. I fear for our country.

Ordinary1 on October 6, 2008 at 1:19 PM

MB4 on October 6, 2008 at 1:09 PM

Thanks toad. Go away.

Mr_Magoo on October 6, 2008 at 1:09 PM

How’s the 2nd grade today? Teacher giving you enough recess time?

MB4 on October 6, 2008 at 1:20 PM

Dow -500 today(so far). How are those ‘taxpayer protections’ working out Barry?

Limerick on October 6, 2008 at 1:11 PM

McCain’s poll numbers will coorelate with the downward movement of the Dow. A third term is hard for a party, and in a recession very hard. What is happening now means that obama just has to play defense, not make big mistakes and he wins comfortably. McCain needs credit spreads to come in and a reflex rally in the market–neither is looking promising today.

It isn’t rational to expect Obama to do better with the economy than McCain, but he’ll get the “change” vote and “change” is gaining more support today.

dedalus on October 6, 2008 at 1:24 PM

Please dispense with any notion that Obama has any idea at all what he’s talking about.

He’s a spoon fed, unqualified clown act.

If we want an actual debate, we need to bring out the puppeteer, ’cause Bambi just does what he’d told to do.

NoDonkey on October 6, 2008 at 1:24 PM

Silver lining -

Russian stocks plunge by nearly 20 percent in a single day

MB4 on October 6, 2008 at 1:27 PM

The people that designed these investment vehicles were mathematicians that didn’t fully understand market risks (started with faulty assumptions/parameters,) and the market people didn’t understand how poorly the risks were accounted for in these very complicated investment vehicles.

RBMN on October 6, 2008 at 1:15 PM

That’s not true. Mathematicians had nothing to do with this problem. Government backing of mispriced assets (along with governmental strong-arm tactics to force origination of these mispriced assets) is the problem, and that has nothing to do with asset valuations beneath that umbrella. The problem is that the government backed more than it could reasonably handle and kept the prices artificially low. But that is par for the course with social engineering in the economy.

Many of these sub-prime loans would have been fine with a 22% interest rate, for example, but such a lender who made the pricing accurate would have been jailed, or worse.

This problem is all of the government’s making. Period. Just like social security (which Bush tried to touch in 2005 and got reamed for even discussing). People must operate within the rules the government sets, and when the government sets us on a course to financial disaster, that’s where we’re going.

progressoverpeace on October 6, 2008 at 1:27 PM

Was sub-prime lending ever a good idea?

Is the threat of an Obama presidency ever a good idea?

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 6, 2008 at 1:28 PM

NoDonkey on October 6, 2008 at 1:24 PM

Yep. And if he wins the domestic power will be held by Pelosi and Reid, and Biden will run foreign policy. Obama will be a figurehead.

Mark1971 on October 6, 2008 at 1:28 PM

for those who have already written off John re: this issue, the debate is tomorrow, let us see what he says when joe and mary q public are actually paying attention and there is no katie or charlie to hack up the tape for “editing” …

Buckaroo on October 6, 2008 at 1:33 PM

the lending of money to people who can’t afford it is a fundamentally destabilizing practice

It’s immoral too. Granted, the primary responsibility lies with the borrower. But isn’t making risky, high interest loans to people with questionable ability to pay it back called loansharking? How is it that these clowns in Congress have sold this as being something virtuous?

forest on October 6, 2008 at 1:33 PM

Time for Team Maverick/SaraCuda,
to introduce the “Surge” at the
debate!!!

canopfor on October 6, 2008 at 1:34 PM

TEACH A MAN TO FISH. That is always the way to go. Don’t give him a fish he didn’t work for.
Spreading out the risk of impending collapse of the mortgage market would never seem like a good idea. The left is not fiscally responsible. Neither, often times these days, in the right.
I wish SOMEONE would be.

Badger40 on October 6, 2008 at 1:36 PM

NoDonkey on October 6, 2008 at 1:24 PM

Yep. And if he wins the domestic power will be held by Pelosi and Reid, and Biden will run foreign policy. Obama will be a figurehead.

Mark1971 on October 6, 2008 at 1:28 PM

I guess that’s better than Obama’s other friends pulling the strings…maybe.

It’s making me nauseous thinking that Joe Scranton Biden will be the least objectionable character anywhere near having influence in that regime.

forest on October 6, 2008 at 1:36 PM

The people aren’t stupid, but the politicians evidently are.

bopbottle on October 6, 2008 at 1:18 PM

So is McCain, apparently.

lorien1973 on October 6, 2008 at 1:38 PM

Hey look at that…the market is way down. Who said this was going to provide stability?

CTDeLude on October 6, 2008 at 1:40 PM

BTW, just a couple of words on terminology. Most loans have always been “sub-prime”. For those who remember, from days gone by, the “prime” rate was the rate charged by banks to the best borrowers, which most were not. Most people used to get home loans at “prime + x”. These loans we’re discussing now are not really mere “sub-prime” loans, though they certainly are “sub-prime”, but JUNK loans. But, I think calling them “junk” was determined to be racist a long time ago … No surprise. And they never got priced as the JUNK they were. I love liberal euphemisms.

progressoverpeace on October 6, 2008 at 1:40 PM

Hey here’s an idea!

Let’s not talk about this at all. Yeah, that’s right.

Instead, let’s have McMaverick just let Obama hang this scam around the Republicans necks.

And INSTEAD- let’s talk about Ayers! Yeah that’s right. Let’s just try to change the subject! That won’t make us look guilty and desperate!

Oh and by the way, the Dems ARE responsible for this scam more than any other entity or Party.

But hey!…..you know that William Ayers is a bad guy…….

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 1:41 PM

There has always been a subprime loan market, because there are always some people who have ruined their credit in the past but are still worth lending to going forward. We used to call these “B-C-D” loans because those were the credit grades lenders used to use. The lower the credit grade, the higher the interest rate. I’ve seen a D credit loan made at 22%. But what would happen with these high-rate loans is if overall rates fell, these loans would refinance in huge numbers and the investors would not get the returns they wanted. When the Fed dropped rates so massively after 9/11, a ton of existing B-C-D mortgages refinanced and investors lost a lot of money. So they started looking at how to make it back and prevent these prepayments from hitting them so hard. The lenders came up with prepayment penalties, balloon mortgages, and other terms that made it harder for someone to refinance. Then some smart people realized they could do these loans with little regulation if they remained state-license mortgage banks and could sell all their loans.

When Fannie and Freddie started buying this stuff, it screwed up everything. It forced interest rates down to near-prime levels and not enough to compensate for the risk.
Investors in Europe and China and Dubai bought boatloads of Fannie and Freddie securities. Pension funds and even loacl governments in the U.S. bought craploads of them. Why would it ever have occurred to them that the full faith and credit of the U.S. government would be behind instruments backed by loans made to non-creditworthy people? These were considered gold-plated stocks and bonds by investors all over the world.

rockmom on October 6, 2008 at 1:43 PM

“FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 1:41 PM”

just because you can’t handle talking about more than one topic at a time doesn’t mean John can’t …

/eyeroll

Buckaroo on October 6, 2008 at 1:43 PM

Give them bread.

The Politicians aren’t stupid, they were buying votes by giving birth to gifts and presents.

Got to imagine that that’s one of the ways that dictators come into power.

Buy people stuff.

benrand on October 6, 2008 at 1:44 PM

But hey!…..you know that William Ayers is a bad guy…….

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 1:41 PM

That’s a winner! Right?

I mean, no one gives a crap about the economy right now. Let’s talk about the man in the window!

I feel like we are the only two sane people left.

lorien1973 on October 6, 2008 at 1:47 PM

“FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 1:41 PM”

just because you can’t handle talking about more than one topic at a time doesn’t mean John can’t …

/eyeroll

Buckaroo on October 6, 2008 at 1:43 PM

It’s not ME- it’s THE PUBLIC that doesn’t CARE ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE BUT THE ECONOMY.

Or have you been under a rock the last two weeks?

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 1:48 PM

Buckaroo on October 6, 2008 at 1:43 PM

Obama constantly hits McCain on the economy. McCain talks about earmarks.

Obama hist McCain on the economy again. McCain talks about Ayers.

Maybe McCain, should… oh I dunno… hit back on the economy? It’s an issue tailor made for him to win. Since, you know, democrats caused it.

McCain = Retarded.

lorien1973 on October 6, 2008 at 1:48 PM

An Obama team leading the economy is like handing the car keys to your nine-year old.

whitetop on October 6, 2008 at 1:49 PM

“THE PUBLIC that doesn’t CARE ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE BUT THE ECONOMY”

care to back up that hysterical [and untrue] assertion with any facts?

Buckaroo on October 6, 2008 at 1:49 PM

I mean, no one gives a crap about the economy right now. Let’s talk about the man in the window!

I feel like we are the only two sane people left.

lorien1973 on October 6, 2008 at 1:47 PM

There are a few others in here- but we’re all in the minority.

We are on a ship of fools……..

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 1:49 PM

“lorien1973 on October 6, 2008 at 1:48 PM”

piss.off.

/how some of you make it ~4 days w/o slitting your wrists is beyond me …

Buckaroo on October 6, 2008 at 1:50 PM

care to back up that hysterical [and untrue] assertion with any facts?

Buckaroo on October 6, 2008 at 1:49 PM

Have you SEEN THE POLLS?

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 1:50 PM

Collateralized debt obligations predate the current crisis. The first CDOs were issued in 1987 long before the explosion of sub-prime lending. I happen to work with the guy who put the first CDOs together. In principle, CDOs are an excellent way of spreading risk becuase the income stream from a portfolio is more secure then holding individual assets. The problem began when the GSEs began to finance CRA loans through CDOs. The risk was spread but the securities were over valued. During the past decade the subprime market expanded ourside the high risk low income market. Again Fannie and Freddie acted as an enabler of bad financial practices. We all know the Bush Adminstration and John McCain tried to reform the two GSEs but the Democrats led by Chris Dodd and Barnie Frank stonewalled any attempt to put a break on their friends activities.

We all know the Democrats were on the take, just as the were during the collapse of the S&L industry. For those who are interested in the truth, John McCain was drawn into the Keating scandal to make it bi-partisan so the Democrats could blame President Reagan. As in the 80’s the Democrats line continues to be that this all the fault of lax regulation by a Republican adminstration. Their claim appears to be that Reagan and Bush should have known they were thieves and acted accordingly.

jerryofva on October 6, 2008 at 1:50 PM

“FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 1:50 PM”

why should I TRUST THE POLLS?!

Buckaroo on October 6, 2008 at 1:51 PM

The Democrat AGs of Illinois and CA have now reached a settlement in their lawsuit against Countrywide. They are going to renegotiate their bad mortgages so that the “owners” can afford them!!

Who is going to finance the $8.8 billion price tag, B of A? Why did the settlement happen right now, in time to feed at the trough of the bailout?

Mortgage Lawsuit Settled

PattyJ on October 6, 2008 at 1:52 PM

“THE PUBLIC that doesn’t CARE ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE BUT THE ECONOMY”

care to back up that hysterical [and untrue] assertion with any facts?

Buckaroo on October 6, 2008 at 1:49 PM

What color is the sky in your world?

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 1:52 PM

It’s immoral too. Granted, the primary responsibility lies with the borrower. But isn’t making risky, high interest loans to people with questionable ability to pay it back called loansharking? How is it that these clowns in Congress have sold this as being something virtuous?

forest on October 6, 2008 at 1:33 PM

It’s probably what people are actually thinking about when they complain about “usery.” Isn’t there a scene in Dickens’ “Christmas Carol” about that?

Count to 10 on October 6, 2008 at 1:52 PM

It would have made more sense for the government to just give ownership of housing project properties to residents. They could have even done a big Habitat for Humanity deal where the residents had to put in sweat equity, and the government would provide a budget of $5000 for each property for the renovation.

And it would have cost us a whole lot less since the government already owned the projects. And it would have taken the costs of the housing projects moving forward as well.

Jack Kemp proposed something like this back in the late 80s/early 90s. Pollyannaish to assume that the people who took possession of “free” houses would maintain them? Perhaps. But a chance to move them into home ownership and reduce the federal budget? A good idea, possibly.

funky chicken on October 6, 2008 at 1:52 PM

why should I TRUST THE POLLS?!

Buckaroo on October 6, 2008 at 1:51 PM

Then WHAT evidence are you basing your assertions on?

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 1:53 PM

Economically, sub-prime lending (almost wrote “ledeing”) is OK as long as the loans are priced to the risk. In other words, those with worse credit profiles pay higher interest rates and fees for their credit. In the event that this cannot happen – e.g., as Congress might prevent pricing to risk with credit cards in one act that’s on the floor – then banks will have every incentive to restrict credit to the most creditworthy.

The problem with the Fannie and Freddie securities is that these sub-prime loans are bundled in with the good ones. This obviously compounds (pardon the pun) the pricing to risk issue, as well as raises securities disclosure issues. The appropriate method of creating a bond backed by sub-prime loans is to bundle them all together for a bond exclusively backed by sub-prime loans with uniform documentation and structures, even if the rates are somewhat uneven. This is roughly the same method as with other loans, but the disclosure that the mortgages are sub-prime will extend the pricing to risk into thesecondary market, which ultimately funds those sub-primes and will therefore set the prevailing market rate.

chsw

chsw on October 6, 2008 at 1:53 PM

There are a few others in here- but we’re all in the minority.

We are on a ship of fools……..

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 1:49 PM

Apparently.

We have a nuclear battery ready to go. And the button just needs to be pressed.

Oooo ….. look Reverend Wright.

lorien1973 on October 6, 2008 at 1:53 PM

dude, i wasn’t the one making the wild claim that “THE PUBLIC” cares about only one issue …

Buckaroo on October 6, 2008 at 1:54 PM

Apparently.

We have a nuclear battery ready to go. And the button just needs to be pressed.

Oooo ….. look Reverend Wright.

lorien1973 on October 6, 2008 at 1:53 PM

……..*sigh*………I know….

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 1:55 PM

Anyone for Toast?
Politics | Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 9:55:31 am PST

In Slate Magazine, William Saletan says the polls are so stacked against John McCain, there’s no possibility he can win. The race is over.

Oh, wait. That was eight years ago, and he was talking about George W. Bush.

Why Bush Is Toast.

Since Labor Day, the media have released about 20 polls on the presidential race. Three show a dead heat, one shows George W. Bush leading by a single percentage point, and the rest show Al Gore leading by one to 10 points. In the latest polls, Gore leads by an average of five points. It’s fashionable at this stage to caution that “anything can happen,” that Bush is “retooling,” and that the numbers can turn in Bush’s favor just as easily as they turned against him. But they can’t. The numbers are moving toward Gore because fundamental dynamics tilt the election in his favor. The only question has been how far those dynamics would carry him. Now that he has passed Bush, the race is over.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31487_Anyone_for_Toast

funky chicken on October 6, 2008 at 1:56 PM

Buckaroo on October 6, 2008 at 1:54 PM

What’s a better topic for McCain to discuss

Ayers

Or

Having the whole (global) economy crumble because of democrat policies

When you figure it out; please let me know.

lorien1973 on October 6, 2008 at 1:58 PM

Can’t we talk about who caused the banking meltdown and Bill Ayers? Or does it have to be one topic only? I don’t think McCain isn’t doing either very well – especially the first part. He’s going to need to PDQ if he wants to win.

forest on October 6, 2008 at 1:58 PM

forest on October 6, 2008 at 1:58 PM

The banking meltdown is all anyone cares about. The stock market is crashing (still), the world finances are about to explode.

But hey. That Ayers guy isn’t nice :(. Rev Wright said some mean things :(

McCain is retarded.

lorien1973 on October 6, 2008 at 2:00 PM

One of the most important aspects of this election is that the American public will never get to the bottom of this financial meltdown with the Democratic Party controlling the White House, the Senate and the House of Representatives.

This needs to be shouted from the highest rooftops. An Obama presidency means the biggest coverup in history.

Star20 on October 6, 2008 at 2:00 PM

For the next 3 weeks, the objective MUST BE to defeat Barack Obama. It will take a concerted effort. Every person who spends time and demoralizes our efforts by attacks on John McCain is objectively working for Obama.

Friendly fire will kill you just as dead as hostile fire. It’s time to stop trying to frag John McCain.

Here’s Orwell:

Pacifism. Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side you automatically help that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, ‘he that is not with me is against me’. The idea that you can somehow remain aloof from and superior to the struggle, while living on food which British sailors have to risk their lives to bring you, is a bourgeois illusion bred of money and security. Mr Savage remarks that ‘according to this type of reasoning, a German or Japanese pacifist would be “objectively pro-British”.’ But of course he would be! That is why pacifist activities are not permitted in those countries (in both of them the penalty is, or can be, beheading) while both the Germans and the Japanese do all they can to encourage the spread of pacifism in British and American territories.

funky chicken on October 6, 2008 at 2:01 PM

Friendly fire will kill you just as dead as hostile fire. It’s time to stop trying to frag John McCain.

I agree. We don’t need to. McCain is doing a wonderful job fragging himself.

And us, along with him.

lorien1973 on October 6, 2008 at 2:02 PM

Can’t we talk about who caused the banking meltdown and Bill Ayers? Or does it have to be one topic only? I don’t think McCain isn’t doing either very well – especially the first part. He’s going to need to PDQ if he wants to win.

forest on October 6, 2008 at 1:58 PM

Why not focus on the biggest issue on peoples minds? The biggest financial scam in the history of this country.

Oh and, by the way- the Democrats CAUSED IT but the they are BLAMING MCCAIN AND THE REPUBLICANS.

So what about Ayers again?

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 2:02 PM

forest on October 6, 2008 at 1:58 PM

Yes. Both are equally important. The economic situation puts us at greater risk for dictatorship and general dismantling of the structure of our country. With that in mind, the choice for the next President is more important with respect to their political philosophies than their economic thoughts – which all these candidates are lacking in, anyway.

McCain needs to push pro-growth policies (as that is the only way out of this problem), the extremely harmful nature of social engineering in our economy, and warn against a weak country getting a radical as President, which is more dangerous than the economic picture, by itself.

progressoverpeace on October 6, 2008 at 2:03 PM

There are a few others in here- but we’re all in the minority.

We are on a ship of fools……..

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 1:49 PM

Ship of fools on a cruel sea, ship of fools sail away from me
It was later than I thought when I first believed you,
Now I cannot share your laughter, ship of fools.

The bottles stand as empty, as they were filled before.
Time there was and plenty, but from that cup no more.
Though I could not caution all, I still might warn a few:
Dont lend your hand to raise no flag atop no ship of fools.
- Grateful Dead

MB4 on October 6, 2008 at 2:05 PM

I would hold off on the McCain funeral until after the next debate.

This is my assumption. If McCain were to start hanging this around Obama and the Dems neck now they would have time to dissemble it so that by the time the debate takes place most folks would be yawning. Palin attacking Obama’s character is the right strategy, planting the seeds, that McCain will use to confront Obama on a national screen with perhaps 50-70 million people watching.

McCain has built this enormous pressure up. If it is to work it has to be released at the debate. Nothing short of a sensational dressing down of Obama, a complete relentless staying on point about, character, Pelosi, Dodd and Frank, repeated attempts by Bush, McCain and others to regulate going back years, earmarks and finally a complete failure of judgement as regards friends and professional relationships–ACORN, Wright etc to his avowed promises to gut the military during the ongoing war on terror, all this has to be pounded home at the debate. Wrap it all up with McCain’s and Palin’s reputation as reformers–the only chance of true reform going forward. Nothing less will do.

If not, buy a black suit.

patrick neid on October 6, 2008 at 2:06 PM

Has anyone seen Obama even attempt a refutation of the idea that this crisis belongs to him, to Dodd, to Frank, to Raines/Gorelick/Johnson?

I hope McCain is boning up.

DrSteve on October 6, 2008 at 2:07 PM

Depends…. how much are you willing to pay me so that I say it’s a “good idea”?

Open up that checkbook…

Mark_Tampa on October 6, 2008 at 2:08 PM

poor lorien. can’t comprehend Theodore Roosevelt or George Orwell

OR

like I’ve suspected for quite some time…Axelrod astroturfer

funky chicken on October 6, 2008 at 2:11 PM

I would hold off on the McCain funeral until after the next debate.

patrick neid on October 6, 2008 at 2:06 PM

The Fat Lady ain’t sung yet, but she has come on stage, she is glaring at McCain, and she looks very pissed.

MB4 on October 6, 2008 at 2:12 PM

MCCAIN JUST LAUNCHED!

YES!!!!!!!

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 2:13 PM

McMaverick is going after THE DEMS AND OBAMA HARD ON THE SUB-PRIME MORTGAGE SCAM!

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM

Uh Oh lorien. gonna gave to find a new “this will make McCain lose” issue

McCain blasts Obama, Democrats for Fannie Mae meltdownposted at 2:00 pm on October 6, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
Send to a Friend | printer-friendly We asked John McCain to take off the gloves — and he listened. In remarks McCain will deliver today, he blasts Democrats, including Barack

Hey, you can always drop back to the Keating 5 like you were last night when Snaggletoothie called you out.

funky chicken on October 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM

funky chicken on October 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM

Lay off.

lorien wants the same thing we all want- a McCain victory.

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 2:16 PM

funky chicken on October 6, 2008 at 2:11 PM

I disagree with lorien on this, but he makes very reasonable point.

progressoverpeace on October 6, 2008 at 2:16 PM

McCain will not bring this debacle up at the debate and will only address it from a defensive position when Obama and the moderator shackle the current administration to the cause of this disaster. Mr. High-ground has proven to be nothing more than a slogan generator who’s old school outdate social morality is being manipulated by an agenda driven media afflicted with blinding racial tolerance, crippled by partisanship they think will heal their self inducted guilt and unable to consider truth because it maybe the wrong color. Country first…just words.

“Hee..he..fight….fight with me…..” Elvis has left the building!

dmann on October 6, 2008 at 2:16 PM

MCCAIN JUST LAUNCHED!

YES!!!!!!!

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 2:13 PM

apparently he’s not listening to me anymore, I told hm to wait until the debate!

patrick neid on October 6, 2008 at 2:26 PM

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM

Timing is everything, hopefully he’ll press the attack.

I sit corrected……

dmann on October 6, 2008 at 2:34 PM

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM

Timing is everything, hopefully he’ll press the attack.

I sit corrected……

dmann on October 6, 2008 at 2:34 PM

He HAD to get this out now. The Market has been tanking.

Plus- this gives Bambi’s team a MASSIVE HEADACHE for tomorrow nights debate planning!

FiveWays on October 6, 2008 at 2:40 PM

For the next 3 weeks, the objective MUST BE to defeat Barack Obama. It will take a concerted effort. Every person who spends time and demoralizes our efforts by attacks on John McCain is objectively working for Obama.

What utter and unadulterated nonsense this brainless bit of strategy is. Why not also throw in there that if you criticize McCain the terrorists have won? By this logic McCain say or promise anything no matter how much it goes against conservative principles and the GOP base is supposed to remain silent? I don’t think so.

A better strategy would be to go out there and argue why Obama isn’t right for America than to become mute McCain drones because of some misguided concept that Americans aren’t entitled to criticize thier leaders 30 days prior to an election. McCain managed to legislate that out of the Constitution, I for one am not going to extend that to my personal comments because of stupid people’s well-intentioned idiocy!

highhopes on October 6, 2008 at 2:41 PM

I found the creator of the video written comments annoyingly didactic. It would be better to create a video which gently leads the viewer to the correct conclusion. Clubbing the viewer over the head rarely works to persuade.

thuja on October 6, 2008 at 2:42 PM

Anyone arguing that subprime lending was essentially a good idea has obviously learned nothing from the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the poison they introduced to the investment sector. The best way to boost home ownership is to build a strong economy in which job creation allows upward mobility throughout the entire economy, and to keep taxes low enough to encourage the kind of investment that creates jobs. Instead of forcing or enticing lenders to take irrational risks with credit, the government would have done much better to build people into position to own homes on a rational basis.

This is my view, too!

Wildcatter1980 on October 6, 2008 at 2:50 PM

Most everyone knew that some of these deals were just too good to be true, but all that money flowing in made it tempting to look the other way and ignore the unscrupulous practice of some bad actors.

Hold on there! Wasn’t Mr. Obama himself personally in a lawsuit against Citibank to force it to take on toxic loans? He’s got some dirt on him which won’t scrub off; he can’t point to his co-conspirators and say it was their fault and he is blameless.

And wasn’t one of the “bad actors” his friend Rezko (who helped him purchase his $1.6M Georgian mansion and garden with a loan from Northern Trust whose rate is the envy of any reader here)?

By the way, note that Northern Trust is a bank for the rich of the rich, and, according to the Chicago Tribune article, had little or no exposure to the subprime market. I wonder why Obama went with that bank and never sued it?

unclesmrgol on October 6, 2008 at 2:57 PM

If Barry finds this so wrong now, then why did he hire the Queen of Sub-prime mortgages- Penny Pritzker- to be his Finance Chairman?

This is a giant bulls-eye NO ONE is shooting at!

drjohn on October 6, 2008 at 3:03 PM

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