AP: Palin’s a racist for bringing up Ayers, or something; Update: McCain camp responds
posted at 2:35 pm on October 5, 2008 by Allahpundit
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One of the clearest examples you’ll ever see of why The One seldom dirties his hands by playing the race card. Not only will his political surrogates do it for him, his media surrogates happily will, too. There were stories out yesterday about how McCain’s planning to go after him on Ayers over the next month and how Team Barry’s planning a little “preemptive” action. Here’s part of the preemption, courtesy of the AP: Mention Obama’s connection to a white domestic terrorist and you’re a racist.
“Our opponent … is someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect, imperfect enough, that he’s palling around with terrorists who would target their own country,” Palin told a group of donors in Englewood, Colo. A deliberate attempt to smear Obama, McCain’s ticket-mate echoed the line at three separate events Saturday.
“This is not a man who sees America like you and I see America,” she said. “We see America as a force of good in this world. We see an America of exceptionalism.”…
Palin’s words avoid repulsing voters with overt racism. But is there another subtext for creating the false image of a black presidential nominee “palling around” with terrorists while assuring a predominantly white audience that he doesn’t see their America?
In a post-Sept. 11 America, terrorists are envisioned as dark-skinned radical Muslims, not the homegrown anarchists of Ayers’ day 40 years ago. With Obama a relative unknown when he began his campaign, the Internet hummed with false e-mails about ties to radical Islam of a foreign-born candidate.
Whether intended or not by the McCain campaign, portraying Obama as “not like us” is another potential appeal to racism. It suggests that the Hawaiian-born Christian is, at heart, un-American.
Most troubling, however, is how allowing racism to creep into the discussion serves McCain’s purpose so well. As the fallout from Wright’s sermons showed earlier this year, forcing Obama to abandon issues to talk about race leads to unresolved arguments about America’s promise to treat all people equally.
Biden couldn’t do any better in his VP attack-dog role, and now he doesn’t have to. The left’s spin on this is that the two never really “palled around,” which may or may not be true (Obama supporter Richard Daley famously calls them “friends”) but in either case is beside the point. The question isn’t whether they’re “pals,” it’s whether Obama had any objection to working with Ayers until he started running for president and was pressed on the subject. He attended a meet-and-greet at Ayers’s home as a neophyte pol to help launch his career; he served, apparently without a problem, alongside him on nonprofits. Not once, to my knowledge, has he claimed that he didn’t know Ayers’s past during that time. According to Andrew Sullivan, Palin’s refusal to produce medical evidence that Trig emerged from her birth canal and not Bristol’s is relevant as a measure of transparency and accountability. Presumably, then, Obama’s sustained comfort around a degenerate whose chief regret from his mad bomber days is that he didn’t do “more” is relevant as a measure of character, particularly since Ayers wasn’t the first radical with whom The One’s associated. Or have the Obama rules now been updated to absolve him from character questions that any other politician would be asked? Hillary didn’t think so. But she’s a racist too, I guess.
Two other points. One, note the casual, blink-and-you’ll-miss-it suggestion that it doesn’t matter if the campaign’s intent is racist or not. I’ve been warning you about that since the left went nuts over the Britney ad. In a sane world, whether or not there’s racist intent behind this would be the whole thrust of the inquiry; as it is, it’s an afterthought. And if you accept the AP’s premise that the rules for Obama should be different, then they’re right — it is an afterthought. Challenge The One’s personal judgments and you’re presumed guilty, conclusively. Two, I’m not sure how to take the fact that the AP seems more concerned with Obama being falsely linked to “dark-skinned radical Muslims” who set bombs than accurately linked to a light-skinned radical leftist who set bombs. If it turned out McCain had served on a nonprofit board with someone from the Manson family, rest assured that the media’s main vein of concern wouldn’t be how Team Barry might use that information to falsely imply that Maverick’s connected to other killers. I’ve made this point before, too: Under most circumstances the left is quick to argue against distinguishing between domestic and foreign terrorists, but suddenly the AP finds those distinctions very important indeed. Is the tool who wrote this so underwhelmed by what Ayers did that he can’t conceive of how it might worry voters except in terms of making them think Obama’s a Muslim?
Lots, lots more from Goldstein. Exit question: Why bother with the Ayers stuff anyway? Isn’t there a better use of McCain’s and Palin’s time at this point?
Update: Palin’s not backing down, and neither is Team Maverick:
“The last four weeks of this election will be about whether the American people are willing to turn our economy and national security over to Barack Obama, a man with little record, questionable judgment, and ties to radical figures like unrepentant domestic terrorist William Ayers. Americans need to ask themselves if they’ve ever befriended an unrepentant terrorist, or had a convicted felon help them buy their house — because those aren’t smears, those are true facts about Barack Obama.” —Tucker Bounds, spokesman McCain-Palin 2008
Update: E&P makes a good point, inadvertently, in trying to absolve Obama: If The One is guilty of looking the other way at Ayers’s terrorist past, so is pretty much every other Democrat in Chicago. This isn’t an “Obama problem,” in other words, as much as it is a problem with his side not fretting overly much about youthful ’60s indiscretions like killing cops with pipe bombs in the name of progress.
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Hmmmm… misoverestimate (a little Bush dig)MB4
Hmmmm… bringing up McCain-NameYourDemocrat policies everyone here disagrees with… Michael in MI
No atroturf tag teaming going on here… Nope… none at all.
CC
CapedConservative on October 5, 2008 at 6:30 PM
Here’s what I’ve been thinking -
There are plenty of people, I’m sorry to say, who will not vote for Obama simply because he’s African American. They may have voted Democrat for their entire lives, but some folks are just hard-wired that way. They either don’t know, or don’t care, about the issues…they just won’t do it.
However, I’m sure there are at least as many people who will vote for Obama BECAUSE he’s African American. They don’t know, or care, about the issues, either – and they’re of every race and gender. They’re as far left of center as they can be, and as far as they’re concerned, it’s “time” for a black president.
uncivilized on October 5, 2008 at 6:31 PM
Amen Brother and I wanted Romney before Palin. Now I have Palin. I see both the shortcoming and the greatness of this woman. I’m not going to chip away at the boat until we get to shore.
hawkdriver on October 5, 2008 at 6:31 PM
So principles and issues are only applicable during Presidential primaries. After that, the new mantra for both sides is “the end justifies the means”. And the GOTV effort is reduced to “you have to vote for my guy otherwise you are (insert insult here)”. That’s a brilliant strategy to bring in independents, especially when most of them believe that both candidates suck and are trying to make a choice between sitting home and voting lesser of two evils.
In my experience, I gain more credibility talking with Independents when I am honest about the weaknesses of *both* candidates. When I have that credibility, it is easier to point out how Obama’s weaknesses outweigh McCain’s. But I lose credibility when I just blow off any criticism of McCain and just cheerlead McCain/Palin and only critcize Obama/Biden.
Plus, considering it is NFL Sunday, criticizing my Bears in the 1st QTR telling them they sucked rear end when getting into the Red Zone twice and only coming away with 3 points does not mean I am rooting for the Lions to beat them. It means I want them to work harder. Criticizing McCain keeps him honest and makes him aware of what he needs to focus on in order to gain support. With no criticism, he’ll think he has no problems whatsoever. It could arguably be stated that the only reason McCain chose Palin is because conservatives badgered him into it, knowing his is more Maverick than conservative. Without that criticism, he could have chosen Lieberman.
Michael in MI on October 5, 2008 at 6:31 PM
Yeah, the fry machine was tough to learn, huh?
Jim Treacher on October 5, 2008 at 6:33 PM
Very good. *claps*
Why do (most of) you feel so strongly that anonymous comments on an internet blog are going to have any impact on the outcome of the election?
People have been rude to the hosts of this blog, profanity has gone up 900% and mental honesty has been banished to the point where publishing polls that show McCain down by two points are considered “helping Obama”.
Anyway, just to be a good sport here is a video that should be passed around the internet to help McCain.
aengus on October 5, 2008 at 6:35 PM
Let me clarify one point in my above post…
I don’t think it’s unfortunate that they won’t vote for Obama; I, personally, would love it if NOBODY voted for him. The unfortunate part is simply the “I’m not voting for a black/hispanic/jewish/gay/female candidate” bias. That’s making a difficult decision based upon something deceptively easy to observe, without doing any of the required homework.
uncivilized on October 5, 2008 at 6:35 PM
History will not end on November, 2008.
MB4 on October 5, 2008 at 6:37 PM
Am I to assume that for you to knock McCain at this point DOESN’T help Obama? Grow up. Get off the floor. Stop kicking and screaming that you didn’t get your way. Neither did I. I still want the best choice of the two choices I have. Apparently you do not. You are working awfully hard at your astroturf job.
I think it is fairly safe to say that NO ONE hear supports the policies McCain proposed that you mention. However, they clearly see McCain as a far better choice than Obama. You CLEARLY DO NOT. Hence… no matter you claim of your political leanings, your efforts are clearly to damage McCain. I believe that is counter to the wishes of most, if not all (except MB4) others here. You are a troll.
CC
CapedConservative on October 5, 2008 at 6:38 PM
Sometimes it just sounds like they’re 3rd and 5 and you’re telling them to just give up because they just don’t deserve to win. It might not be what you intend, but it’s what it sounds like.
Here’s the bottom line for me. After the election! Unless you want a loss save it till after the election.
hawkdriver on October 5, 2008 at 6:38 PM
And you obviously prefer that time to have a President Obama over a President McCain.
CC
CapedConservative on October 5, 2008 at 6:39 PM
Thing is, there’s no homework requirement when it comes to stepping in the voting booth. It ain’t no exam, that’s fer sher.
misslizzi on October 5, 2008 at 6:39 PM
lol. Don’t go all nucular here.
MB4 on October 5, 2008 at 6:39 PM
History will not end on November, 2008.
MB4 on October 5, 2008 at 6:37 PM
If Urkel gets elected with a veto-proof Senate, it will be, at least for this country’s future.
Can you speak Mandarin?
TexasJew on October 5, 2008 at 6:40 PM
Michael in MI, I haven’t been around here very long, but I wouldn’t say that you’ve been trollish or rabidly anti-McCain. I think part of what’s going on here is we’re all realizing how serious the situation is.
As I watched football last night I wondered if they have football in communist countries, and wondered just how our culture would change if folks like Richard Cloward, Saul Alinsky, and Bill Ayers – communists all – got their wish.
I’m hoping that McCain is waking up on stuff like campaign finance reform – as he sees just how far-gone our political system and media are. I think choosing Palin was a recognition that he needs his base, and I think she’ll talk him into ANWR. I was a Fred-head. I understand the disgust.
We need you, and we need thousands of others just like you. You’re a red-blooded American and right now that’s a precious commodity. We’re all frustrated. We don’t have to agree, but for the sake of America’s continued existence, we do need to somehow pull together on the things we can agree on. If we can avert doomsday now, we will have time to make sense out of other issues, but I fear that if we let Obama in the door, our time is up as a free nation.
justincase on October 5, 2008 at 6:41 PM
hmmmm… phoney moonbat elitism peeking through. Maybe you’d like to give me a little Palin speak… you know… the “rube” accent.
CC
CapedConservative on October 5, 2008 at 6:42 PM
Regardless, you are disgruntled and I don’t see the point. I was totally in the Romney camp, but McCain is the only thing standing between us and a white house striped of all semblances of Americana and replaced with in Agaseke baskets, Konkoma masks, tribal spears, and George’s portrait being replaced with a picture of Che.
Not to mention a SCOTUS filled with four more Ginsberg’s.
csdeven on October 5, 2008 at 6:43 PM
Plenty of people have lived in the past. How do you think that you got here?
MB4 on October 5, 2008 at 6:44 PM
MB4, if you’re not a troll, why is it so hard for you to just talk straight? Say who you really support. If you intend to vote McCain/Palin say something constructive for the effort. Otherwise, you’re really losing that credibility you allude to.
Thsi is my party. I love it. I have to destroy it to save it.
My apologizes Mr. Zucker!
hawkdriver on October 5, 2008 at 6:44 PM
Excellent post. Agree completely.
The annoyance with some of us is what I stated earlier: the convergence of attitudes of the right and left. In that, any criticism of the candidate turns a staunch conservative into a troll or a traitor or whatever else. It has happened to those at NRO and other places who up until now were treated with respect for their political commentary. It seems that people simply cannot read a criticism of their candidate and reply with “Hmm, interesting analysis, but I disagree and here is why…” No, the general reply that I have seen from people all over the right-of-center blogs is to ostracize anyone who goes off the reservation of McCain-Palin adoration.
That kind of attitude is pretty annoying to those of us who are working to convince our independent or left-leaning friends, colleagues and family members of the merits of voting McCain/Palin. There is a difference between unquestioned, uncritical cheerleading which causes one to be seen as a partisan hack and being a supporter with big hesitations and worries about the GOP candidate, but working to explain to others why (1) he is the lesser of two evils and (2) we can work successfully to stop his lousy policies while enjoying his good policies we otherwise would not have with the other candidate.
Michael in MI on October 5, 2008 at 6:45 PM
Hmmm. Well, I doubt I had a past life since there are more people walking around alive today than the sum of all the dead throughout history… do the math.
As to how I got here, well, I had a mother and a father and they obviously had sex. How about you?
CC
CapedConservative on October 5, 2008 at 6:47 PM
You’re watching football all wrong! You’re supposed to be getting another beer during the commercials. lol
csdeven on October 5, 2008 at 6:47 PM
I just saw ABC news Sunday and it lead with Palin’s comment about Ayers and Obama. Of course, Obama contered that McCain is desperate and running out of time. ABC said Obama was campagining in VA, NC and IN because he’s surging in the polls.
As Drudge would say, “Developing….”
sophiesmom on October 5, 2008 at 6:48 PM
Why only four Ginsbergs? Maybe The Devil Obama will kill the other 5 Supreme Court Justices with one of your “tribal spears” and it will be nine Ginsbergs? Huh?
George Will’s question for McKoolaid drinkers -
“The more McCain talks — about wicked “speculators,” about how he reveres ANWR as much as the Grand Canyon, about adjusting the planet’s thermostat, etc. — the more conservatives cling to judicial nominees as a reason for supporting him. But now another portion of his signature legislation has been repudiated by the court as an affront to the First Amendment, and again Roberts and Alito have joined the repudiation. Yet McCain promises to nominate jurists like them. Is that believable?”
MB4 on October 5, 2008 at 6:49 PM
I think the worst aspect of the National Review controversy is that people have lost all understanding of what an opinion leader is.
NR was set up to shape conservative opinion – not as a media extension of the Republican Party. For instance National Review under Buckley refused to endorse Eisenhower for President.
It is the job of the RNC and grassroots supporters to promote McCain. The whole concept of an opinion leader has been completely lost to the Republican base thanks to the sorry state of the NR since about the mid-80s.
aengus on October 5, 2008 at 6:51 PM
She sounds normal to me.
MB4 on October 5, 2008 at 6:51 PM
Yep.
Guys, Michael in MI is just the more polished McCain hater, and he is here to attempt to demoralize republicans.
He is working to elect Obama.
Just as Orwell pointed out during WWII when he declared pacifists objectively pro-Nazi. Anybody bashing McCain at this stage in the election is objectively pro-Obama.
funky chicken on October 5, 2008 at 6:52 PM
I don’t disagree. But timing. Timing!
Like your football analogy, the time for team criticism was Wednesday afternoon practice. This is game day. This is the time when regardless of what you think the chances are, it’s the full team chant and everyone knows kickoff is close but you hear the guy next to you saying, “This isn’t going to work because our team just has too many problems. We‘re screwed”
hawkdriver on October 5, 2008 at 6:52 PM
Yes. This is the same dynamic that gave us Clinton. Conservatives decided to punish Bush sr for “Read my lips” by voting for Perot.
Well, they taught the conservatives for sure! We got Clinton which in turn got us Osama and in turn got us 9/11.
Oslime-a WILL put policies in place that WILL create more instability in the world. IE: The minute he pulls out of Iraq and then attacks Pakistan.
csdeven on October 5, 2008 at 6:52 PM
Glad to read you seeing the light… as to independents, well, there are no “independent” blogs. My father-in-law lives in Iowa. Voted Clinton-Clinton-Gore-Kerry and will not vote for Obama. Says he has no idea who the guy is. He watches only ABC, CBS, NBC and CNN. He will never look at any web site I suggest because he doesn’t want to be influenced by people that are partisan. In his words, he’s never visited any link I’ve sent him unless it was humor. He doesn’t want to be influenced. Oh, even without my help, he does believe the media (including his beloved Des Moines Register) is in the tank for Obama.
CC
CapedConservative on October 5, 2008 at 6:54 PM
MB4 is David Ploufe, I have it on good authority. Or Ploufe’s sister, or something.
Akzed on October 5, 2008 at 6:54 PM
Fixed that for you. When are you going to learn to stop candy coating your depictions of the Dhimmicratic platform/ If we’re winning, then they have to stop funding, and they have to give aid and comfort to the other side, so they can blame Bush for failure, and use that mantra to win elections, crush the Republican opposition, and take over the country. ALL of it.
Gee Brain. How come you don’t admit you are trying to take over the world? Zort!
Subsunk
Subsunk on October 5, 2008 at 6:54 PM
yeah, surging in the polls eyeroll
The pollsters obviously have a vested interest in producing an exciting product. All opinion polls are entertainment products, nothing more and nothing less. But what a great country that so many people can make lots of money producing something so silly.
funky chicken on October 5, 2008 at 6:55 PM
McCain continues to use the race card to his ruin.
philnewkirk on October 5, 2008 at 6:55 PM
Olvidese de Mandarin. Todos ustedes estaran obligados a hablar Espanol tan pronto como mi candidato Juan McCain se convierte en el Presidente de America del Norte.
VinyFoxy on October 5, 2008 at 6:56 PM
Don’t worry, conservatives who insist on calling themselves “rubes” are like all those hippies who waterboard each other. Just as the waterboarded hippies outnumber the terrorists, the self-described “rubes” outnumber the amount of elitists calling them that.
Also it is possible for farmers and small town folk to be well-spoken despite all insistence to the contrary.
aengus on October 5, 2008 at 6:56 PM
Is Phil the Gynecologist back?
CC
CapedConservative on October 5, 2008 at 6:57 PM
Agree completely. A 155 from friendly fire is still fratricide. So it doesn’t matter his motive. He still affected friendly troop.
“Receiving friendly fire,
Roger returning same,”
hawkdriver on October 5, 2008 at 6:58 PM
I wish?
philnewkirk on October 5, 2008 at 6:58 PM
Yup, I went to school on an Indian Reservation, a town of less than 400, and I don’t speak English like a “Rube”.
MB4 on October 5, 2008 at 6:59 PM
It was more complicated than that.
Think back to 1992, when George H.W. Bush had refused to oppose Democratic gun control measures in the previous few years. When asked about the NRA and its members, he responded, “Where else are they going to go?” i.e. who else are they going to vote for? The NRA responded by endorsing neither Bush nor Clinton in 1992.
The key point is that the GOP got the message that they could not take the NRA for granted. The NRA, you might say, settled one issue once and for all: The GOP opposes gun control. Period.
aengus on October 5, 2008 at 7:00 PM
Isn’t Ayers white?
lorien1973 on October 5, 2008 at 7:00 PM
justincase on October 5, 2008 at 6:41 PM
Thanks. I am actually working on some of my more independent and politically ignorant friends, coworkers and family members on the merits of voting McCain over Obama. Just the other day one of my coworkers actually shocked me when he told me that, based on some of the e-mails and articles I had been sending him over the past few weeks, he had started to convince *his* friends and wife of why McCain was the better choice. Granted, he says he keeps flip flopping based on seeing interviews or speeches or debates. He tells me he can’t stand Palin at all and likes Obama’s domestic policies better (I’m still working on him on those.. sent him the lies that Biden and Obama are telling about McCain’s healthcare plan and plan to talk to him about that tonight), but he also says that he does not want Obama in charge of our foreign policy. But he’s still torn on whom to vote for.
The problem I have is that it is frustrating to see some people here jump to ridiculous conclusions about the agenda of some commenters, simply because they are not Chris Matthews about McCain/Palin. I see that kind of crap and it makes me wonder why I even bother. It also gives me no defense when I sent these threads to my friends and they come back and tell me “geez those commenters there are ridiculous. I don’t know if I should take that site seriously”. While it shouldn’t matter what the comments are and I tell them to just not read them and focus on the subject matter of the post, sometimes little things like that turn people off.
So dealing with that, some of us just say f*** it sometimes and treat the idiots here who get their jollies off of shouting “TROLL!” for everyone who disagrees with them… with the same utter contempt and irrelevancy as they dish out. But unlike others here who apparently spend all their time on here waiting for MB4 or I to show up so they can get their jollies by insulting us, I actually am working in my real offline life to support McCain. I just do it in a way where I don’t blow sunshine up people’s butts about him and Palin. I point out the weaknesses and strengths and explain why I think his strengths outweigh his weaknesses as compared to Obama. But, I also go about it in a way that I don’t force my opinions on these people. I just throw the facts out there and let them decide. I let them know that I feel the important part is not that they vote the way I do or they think the way I do, but that they have all the facts and are able to come to an informed decision. I personally believe that if people have all the facts, they will come around to the conservative way of thinking. If they don’t, then it just means I have to be more convincing. :)
But being an uncritical, unquestioning “the ends justify the means” cheerleader for McCain-Palin does no good whatsoever in persuading people.
Michael in MI on October 5, 2008 at 7:02 PM
Yo no creo ahora. Tenimos muchas personas que no permitar Senor McCain a Pasar Shamnesty.
hawkdriver on October 5, 2008 at 7:03 PM
I happen to believe a moderate bench is good for all. McCain will do just that. Oslime-a will go the other way, trying to offset Bush’s appointments.
And once the bench is moderate, people will be less divided over the politics of the nominees.
csdeven on October 5, 2008 at 7:03 PM
If any of you have liberal to moderate friends who are curious about Obama, really, send them the link to Steve Diamond’s site. He’s the one who has done the most to investigate the Obama/Ayers/Daley connections. He started trying to figure out the Obama/Ayers/CAC story way before Staney Kurtz did…he got access to quite a few documents before the UIC library shut down access because of Kurtz’s inquiries. Diamond is a liberal which is probably why nobody thought to restrict his access for so long. If you scroll down, look at all the articles in the right sidebar.
He wrote several informative articles in 6/2008-8/2008 timeframe.
Get a cup of coffee and dig in…and send your favorites to people who need to see the information presented by somebody who wouldn’t be opposed to Obama because of partisan politics.
http://www.globallabor.blogspot.com/
funky chicken on October 5, 2008 at 7:03 PM
Yep. And throwing “read my lips” out of office and voting so highly for Perot, that sent a message to the GOP to get their conservative act together and thus the rise of Newt and the GOP House with their Contract for America. Had the nation not sent that message, who knows what would have happened.
Michael in MI on October 5, 2008 at 7:04 PM
Apparently you don’t read the papers (BTW, what papers and magazines do you read?). Criticism of Obama is racist on it’s face. They are also claiming the RNC suit about campaign finance violations is racist.
Get with the program. To oppose Big Brother (pun intended) is to be racist.
CC
CapedConservative on October 5, 2008 at 7:04 PM
To the extent that what anyone says here matters at all, you are playing checkers, I am playing chess.
MB4 on October 5, 2008 at 7:07 PM
Honestly, I don’t remember that dynamic, but I’ll take your word on it.
csdeven on October 5, 2008 at 7:07 PM
Hmmm… knocking “Bush speak”. Now a reference to your IQ being so much more significant… Suppose you might slip in a little reference to racist and make it a trifecta?
CC
CapedConservative on October 5, 2008 at 7:10 PM
Yes. But Senator Obama is American.
philnewkirk on October 5, 2008 at 7:10 PM
I don’t see an issue that compares to the 2nd amendment issue this cycle.
We have two very clear stark choices. Oslime-a or McCain. Why play chess when checkers will do?
csdeven on October 5, 2008 at 7:11 PM
North, South or Central?
CC
CapedConservative on October 5, 2008 at 7:11 PM
Wow, you guys really can’t deal with anyone not agreeing 100% with you, can you? You have no idea what I do in my personal life, what I write on my blog, yet here you judge me and all others based on a few comments left on a blog post. Wow, again, I thought only the Left was this judgemental and intolerant. It is really sad to see the right-of-center blogs turn into this sort of atmosphere.
See the light about what? I haven’t changed my opinions or my efforts in politics since the Primaries. I think it is you who have finally seen the light and realize that you are ridiculous for judging people based on a few comments you see them post online when you have not a clue what they do in their own time away from the internets.
Michael in MI on October 5, 2008 at 7:11 PM
I don’t much worry about losing my creditability here. I’ve been told that many, many, many times before and the way I figure, those that mind what I say don’t matter and those that matter don’t mind.
MB4 on October 5, 2008 at 7:12 PM
Well, we are p’wned. The entire world bows at the searing logic to your fiery intellect.
You are such a pompus liberal troll.
hawkdriver on October 5, 2008 at 7:13 PM
So how is McCain playing the race card? I’m confused.
lorien1973 on October 5, 2008 at 7:13 PM
Michael in MI at 7:02
Okay. I change what I said. We don’t need you. We need you DESPERATELY. =)
Keep doing what you’re doing. Yes, we need to work on anything that destroys the credibility of our arguments.
It’s just so darned frustrating, knowing that there are people who just try to stir up the pot. Agitators.
And the way the media is, it’s hard to know who to trust. I remember being kind of mad when McCain said our war plan wasn’t working. It felt like he was piling on to Bush. But when Michael Yon and some of the milblogs I read said the same thing, I realized this wasn’t just a desire to Bush-bash and surrender, but a flat-out honest bid to win, I realized that sometimes your best friend is the one who seems against you.
Sounds like you’re willing to be gut-level honest, and that’s exactly what we need – especially in Michigan. Kudos to you and may you kick butt!
justincase on October 5, 2008 at 7:14 PM
But apparently you do have a clue when they are away from the internets… all of them. Isn’t that street two-way?
CC
CapedConservative on October 5, 2008 at 7:15 PM
Thanks. I remember it because its one of the most principled stands ever taken by a political organisation and I admire the NRA as a result.
Clinton passed the Brady Bill shortly thereafter, and most conservative pundits said this proved that the NRA had shot itself in the foot.
What actually happened was that the Brady Bill caused NRA membership to more than double, from less than three million to over six million, its fundraising skyrocketed, and it has accomplished one political victory after another, from the federal level down to the state and local levels, ever since.
The Brady Bill’s worst sections have been phased out since that time. That is a rare accomplishment in national politics.
aengus on October 5, 2008 at 7:16 PM
By the way, I was listening to someone read viewer emails at FOX earlier. An Obama supporter wrote that William Ayers paid his dues. Didn’t he get off on a technality?
Connie on October 5, 2008 at 7:16 PM
Who said that you had a past life? I didn’t. Frankly I don’t know where you get that. I don’t think you have a past life or a future life for that matter.
MB4 on October 5, 2008 at 7:17 PM
**sigh** True – and a lot of voters ain’t there on no scholarship, either.
uncivilized on October 5, 2008 at 7:17 PM
Yet, people just can’t seem to quite ignore him, can they? Says a lot more about the people who just have this personal need to insult trolls, instead of being the bigger people and just ignoring them.
If MB4 is a troll, then just ignore him. Since people are engaging with him, apparently they realize he is not a troll and just like calling him one, because they get off on insulting anonymous people online.
Michael in MI on October 5, 2008 at 7:18 PM
Murder has no dues to pay if you are free and/or still living.
lorien1973 on October 5, 2008 at 7:18 PM
Heh. Sometimes it feels like I have NO LIFE. Period. *sigh*
ManlyRash on October 5, 2008 at 7:18 PM
My parents never seemed to be able to agree on that matter. My father said that they did and my mother said they found me in a basket on the front porch.
MB4 on October 5, 2008 at 7:19 PM
And you’re referring to what? Where have I jumped to the wrong conclusion that someone hates someone, is here for a certain agenda and called them a troll?
Michael in MI on October 5, 2008 at 7:20 PM
Are you suggesting that it’s a good idea to give people what they want, so that others can see the folly and fix it later on?
lorien1973 on October 5, 2008 at 7:20 PM
Well, I have 4 children (grown). People that gave me a hard time about having 4 got the standard answer… I was 4 for 4.
C
CapedConservative on October 5, 2008 at 7:21 PM
I understand the reason for standing up for principles, but was it worth 9/11? How many 9/11 type events do we have to endure to get the party straight on CFR, immigration, etc?
Maybe it was worth it and catastrophic events must occur to bring about change that should come about through simple commonsense.
csdeven on October 5, 2008 at 7:21 PM
Oh, but it does, lorien. It’s simply a question of who collects the dues. Were one of my children a victim of Ayers’ antics, I can assure you he would have paid his dues in full years ago.
ManlyRash on October 5, 2008 at 7:21 PM
You are admitting our next president is American?
philnewkirk on October 5, 2008 at 7:22 PM
I covered that condition in the and/or :P
lorien1973 on October 5, 2008 at 7:22 PM
Figures. And here I am, playing Stratego. Farkin’ story of my life.
ManlyRash on October 5, 2008 at 7:23 PM
One would hope. I’m not sure how him being american invokes the race card. Especially given than american is not a race.
lorien1973 on October 5, 2008 at 7:23 PM
You are paranoid.
MB4 on October 5, 2008 at 7:23 PM
Perhaps… I changed my party from R to No Party Affiliation when my party moved left of me. I think this recent financial situation may just get people a bit more interested and active in government. At least we can hope.
One of the Seven Deadlys at work here… Sloth can be offset by Diligence.
CC
CapedConservative on October 5, 2008 at 7:24 PM
I’m not sure what you’re trying to ask me here.
I’m saying that Bush the Elder should not have taken his base for granted. He flipped off the NRA so they called his bluff (”Where are they going to go to?”) and eventually got what they wanted.
aengus on October 5, 2008 at 7:24 PM
Native American is!
Personally, I think that is a stupid designation. Anyone born in the U.S. is a “native” American. I wish they would be more precise and start using the correct term: Aboriginal American.
ManlyRash on October 5, 2008 at 7:25 PM
But being an uncritical, unquestioning “the ends justify the means” cheerleader for McCain-Palin does no good whatsoever in persuading people.
Michael in MI on October 5, 2008 at 7:02 PM
It’s not like that with everyone MI. MB4 has never said a positive thong about McCain since I got back from overseas months ago and stated reading HA and posting on it again again.
His MO is the same every night. So if you got lumped into a group with him by me, it’s only because the first time I saw you post, you were busting on the rest of us for defending the ticket against him. For calling his a Troll. And that’s what it is with MB4. He has never that I’ve seen conceded a postive point like you just have and given an insight to what you’re all about.
And as much as you’re involved, you have got to know in your heart, that’s the only reason some of these folks are here. I’ll be gut-level honest after teh election if McCain tried to pass an amnesty bill or if the ticket turns left at all. But id the party doesn’t even get there, it won’t matter will it?
hawkdriver on October 5, 2008 at 7:26 PM
Whatever you are smoking or drinking or snorting, put it down right now as you have obviously exceeded your limit.
MB4 on October 5, 2008 at 7:26 PM
And Lust can be offset – or at least temporarily sated – by a weekend at the Chicken Ranch in Nevada.
*awkward silence*
Oh God, did I type that out loud?
ManlyRash on October 5, 2008 at 7:27 PM
And here’s what I don’t get at ALL…I saw the same thing on Fox News, and the only thing Obama said was some drivel about McCain being too concerned about who Obama associated himself with – well, YEAH, how ’bout that, Einstein??? The sort of people you surrounded yourself with in the past are a pretty good indicator of what sort you’ll surround yourself with in the future. The President has to surround himself with people who can give him good advice. I don’t think Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright are the kind of people I’d feel safe with.
uncivilized on October 5, 2008 at 7:28 PM
Explains a lot … “Manly Rash” :P
lorien1973 on October 5, 2008 at 7:28 PM
*rereading the post*
So you did. And another Manly Rash RWR (Rapid Witty Response) goes down in flames.
ManlyRash on October 5, 2008 at 7:29 PM
That’s less likely to happen if you don’t lay your battery 3200 mils out.
MB4 on October 5, 2008 at 7:30 PM
There just isn’t enough Gold Bond Medicated Powder to go around. Sorry…it’s a “manly” thing.
ManlyRash on October 5, 2008 at 7:30 PM
If I were McCain, I’d list off all of these questionable characters and add “You know, if Obama had only 1 or 2 these guys in his recent past, you could chalk it up to innocence or naivete. But he has -all- of them around him. That’s a constant display of bad judgement”
But my main problem with this “character” attack, is that it didn’t work against clinton – even though clinton showed over his term that his judgement never really improved – and it won’t work now.
Fannie Mae is where it’s at.
lorien1973 on October 5, 2008 at 7:30 PM
philnewkirk sees racists under his bed.
onlineanalyst on October 5, 2008 at 7:30 PM
Hmm this is certainly a dilemma. I don’t think its worth something catastrophicly evil to befall the West in order to get someone to fix the probelms. I certainly wouldn’t wish it.
However when you reflect that 9/11 hasn’t been enough to set people straight on border integrity and other things fundamental to the health of the US (and the rest of the West) then that tells me there is likely to be a lot suffering in the future, presumably at the hands of Islam, before people drop liberalism which is the political form of suicide.
aengus on October 5, 2008 at 7:32 PM
I like that RightChange ad. Hits Obama where it hurts, and indirectly supports McCain by showing he saw the financial problems coming and tried to do something about it. Sounds like a good time to go visit their website and drop a little green over there!
RightChange seems to have a better strategy than the McCain campaign!
Steve Z on October 5, 2008 at 7:34 PM
That’s the trouble with the freaking artillery using mills instead of degrees “and” not trusting the unit that’s doing the fire mission for you.
I defy you to say one positive thing about the ticket to prove you’re not a troll!
Shot out.
hawkdriver on October 5, 2008 at 7:34 PM
One would hope. I’m not sure how him being american invokes the race card. Especially given than american is not a race.
philnewkirk on October 5, 2008 at 7:34 PM
Consideramos que, Gringo. Juan McCain ha prometido a mi ya Juan Hernandez.
VinyFoxy on October 5, 2008 at 7:35 PM
justincase on October 5, 2008 at 7:14 PM
I’m actually still annoyed at McCain for the way he handled his criticism of Bush’s handling of the war effort. Especially with his torture legislation, stance on GTMO and constantly criticizing the strategy in Iraq. I believe he was completely wrong on torture and GTMO (and Andy McCarthy at NRO – whose opinions I have read since 2003 and greatly respect – has actually written at length about all the negative effects of McCain’s torture legislation), but I believe he was correct about the need for a change in strategy in Iraq. However, I was annoyed at the way he went about his criticism. Personally, I felt he echoed the complaints of the Left and that hurt the war effort overall. Even though he was probably criticizing hoping to change strategy, he was also giving ammunition to the Left. Also, during that time, he was not attacking the Left’s efforts to completely undermine the war effort. He simply went after Bush, it seemed, at every turn. Then add that to GTMO and torture and I felt he was hurting the war effort as much as the Democrats.
GTMO and torture are two other big reasons (in addition to Amnesty, global warming cap and trade, McCain-Feingold, etc) that I don’t support McCain and never have. But, Obama is worse. Plus, I do respect his position to rather lose an election than lose a war. However, again, he annoys me by taking all the credit for the “surge”-offensive, when, it was Bush/Petraeus who deserve all the credit for it, while McCain deserves credit simply for supporting it when others would not.
That said, my stance is simply that my distrust for McCain is less than my distrust for Obama. And McCain’s weaknesses are outweighed by Obama’s weaknesses. I’m probably no different than most Americans. We’re making a choice between the lesser of two evils. I’m not happy about it and I’m not going to go around praising McCain or Palin when I don’t believe they warrant it. But I’m also not going to sit by and listen to people spread lies about McCain/Palin or be uninformed about the weaknesses of Obama/Biden. I just do my job to get out the facts and let people make up their own minds – as I have – about whom they feel is the lesser of two evils this campaign season.
Michael in MI on October 5, 2008 at 7:35 PM
How so? Can you get to the point? You give me a headache.
lorien1973 on October 5, 2008 at 7:36 PM
Oh, by the way, what’s racist about accusing Obama (truthfully) of working with a WHITE terrorist?
OK, if we want to be racist, we’ll play back the Pfleger sermons. Oh yeah, he’s white too!
Steve Z on October 5, 2008 at 7:37 PM
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