Breaking: Bailout vote underway; Update: 218; Update: 263-171
posted at 1:07 pm on October 3, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Magic Eightball says all signs point to yes, with both Hoyer and Blunt expressing “confidence.” If it fails, we’re likely looking at the Dow falling off a cliff and calls for Pelosi to quit.
A sweaty, panicky blogger chambers a single round and waits for the paddles to hit an economy in cardiac arrest…
Update: The vote’s not done yet but they’re already at 231. Unless a swath of members switch to no at the last minute, it’s a done deal.
Update: Sugary Senate pork made the medicine go down: 263-171 as the gavel comes down, with some 90 Republicans voting yes. The Dow has suddenly dropped by 80 points or so, but I think I know why — it’s pessimists like me unloading their portfolios to capitalize on the post-bailout spike ahead of what they expect will be another downturn next week. (I didn’t unload, but thought about it.)
Standby for the roll of glory bitter resignation!
Update: Democrats predictably credit The One, who leaned on members to switch and push this through.
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I would argue that Christianity has redefined itself, and it has, so has the nation.
I accept notions of Paine, but some of it I reject. I think our biggest problem is that the citizenry isn’t engaged. When they get engaged (see amnesty) they still have great power. Regardless, I understand your point. I’m merely saying that divisions have always divided us.
Spirit of 1776 on October 3, 2008 at 3:08 PM
The problem with CO is defense. Do not underestimate the impulse of the leftists to control. They will certainly attempt to “liberate” us by force for the sake of World Peace.
I think Maine or Alaska are better candidates simply because of location. Plus, Alaska’s resources are more readily available for sale.
philwynk on October 3, 2008 at 3:08 PM
Tired of that CO. How about Grand Junction, or Durango, or Ft. Collins ?
JiangxiDad on October 3, 2008 at 3:08 PM
Michelle,
You organize a protest in DC on Sunday (and every Sunday) and I’ll go. I usually hate protesters, but with this robbery, I’ll go.
LET US KNOW.
bucktowndusty on October 3, 2008 at 3:08 PM
Depends on which ones have Obama posters. As I recall, it was the centerpiece of the new presidential seal for his campaign. Seriously, though, we see the shadow of blue eagles in myriad government programs ad bureaucracies that go way beyond anything authorized by the Constitution.
What can I say? Obviously you are right. Republicans are fascists. You win. Reagan won because he wanted to expand government.
Nonsense. Democrats are fascists – FDR proved it. Reagan won because he wanted to turn the beast back and made only a dent. It has come roaring back with a vengeance and will grow even bigger in an Obama regime.
ManlyRash on October 3, 2008 at 3:09 PM
Because our economy is really screwed up right now and this bill isn’t going to magically make it ok.
phronesis on October 3, 2008 at 3:09 PM
Those who have are practicing something different then, IMO. Once you change it, it’s no longer what it was. And that therefore is part of the problem, things being shifted to the left and redefined.
And yes, I’m a fundamentalist.
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 3, 2008 at 3:11 PM
LOL, I like Junction… and its growing.
Luv the street names… Like… 17 3/4s street… and they are right in the middle of the logistics for the oil/natural gas boom…
Romeo13 on October 3, 2008 at 3:12 PM
Constitution gives power to Congress to put down insurrection.
Spirit of 1776 on October 3, 2008 at 3:13 PM
England had that power too.
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 3, 2008 at 3:13 PM
I seriously believe the Founding Fathers saw much of this coming, and knew their actions would need to eventually be repeated. Such is the nature of mortality. Such is Entropy.
Seemingly some of the wisest men ever born. You can help but believe that they knew even the great nation they were creating would one day need a ‘correction’ and a reminder of what it is that underlays our society.
The 2nd amendment is there for a reason and they wise to figure it so prominently in the amendment process.
Bishop on October 3, 2008 at 3:14 PM
I got the impression from people pushing the bailout that it would make all this bad stuff go away, but it won’t. If the bailout had failed there would be pain, and if it passed, as it did, there would be pain. It’s a “crap sandwich” but it’s not one the bailout will allow us to avoid. The bailout is just hotsauce to cover up the taste of the crap.
DFCtomm on October 3, 2008 at 3:14 PM
That’s my point, which you mocked by reference my view as dreamland. We are seeing shadows of the past again.
The growth of government has happened with the consent of the people. Thus no moral authority.
Spirit of 1776 on October 3, 2008 at 3:15 PM
I want an oil well on my front lawn. That’s my idea of a carbon footprint.
JiangxiDad on October 3, 2008 at 3:15 PM
Yes, and I think more things would be reconcilable if both sides bargained in good faith. But the left doesn’t work that way. Two plus two equals five if that’s what the group says today. It’s four if that’s convenient tomorrow. Reminds me of the book titled “People of the Lie.”
The frustration of non-leftists in politics comes from the fact that we debate things and have honest differences. Some can’t stand criticism of Republicans, but that’s the way it goes. It prevents non-leftists from being as cohesive in politics, but it is honest. Might also have to do with the fact non-leftists don’t spend every minute scheming for power over others.
Feedie on October 3, 2008 at 3:16 PM
And then gave the PEOPLE the right to keep and bear arms so they would have the ability to combat tyranny…
So, your point?
Romeo13 on October 3, 2008 at 3:16 PM
Hey! Watch it, I’m a baby boomer. Hmmmm, seems like I remember some folks referring to me as a pain at times.
Oldnuke on October 3, 2008 at 3:16 PM
Romeo13 on October 3, 2008 at 3:16 PMBeat me to it. I was gonna say try doing that in D.C. and see what happens.
Oldnuke on October 3, 2008 at 3:17 PM
Sorry Romeo, hit strike instead of quote….sigh…senior moment.
Oldnuke on October 3, 2008 at 3:18 PM
And if they had followed their own laws on taxation/representations, or recourse for the abused, the Revolution might not have happened. Point is simply, the fathers weren’t gungho for violence all the time.
Look, if and when the moral authority and the legal authority is on side of the people with no recourse save for violence, then this conversation is important. Right now, though, we have the vote, we have freedom of speech, we just aren’t in the same moral position.
No argument.
Spirit of 1776 on October 3, 2008 at 3:18 PM
This is all bovine fecal matter………
Seven Percent Solution on October 3, 2008 at 3:18 PM
That’s why you kill them first
LimeyGeek on October 3, 2008 at 3:19 PM
That they valued Union. That violence wasn’t the first answer. 2nd amendment is to prevent tyranny, absolutely. It’s not so the citizens can assassinate presidents at will.
Spirit of 1776 on October 3, 2008 at 3:19 PM
Because our economy is really screwed up right now and this bill isn’t going to magically make it ok.
phronesis on October 3, 2008 at 3:09 PM
Well, that was one of the selling points they used. And last week anytime they thought they had reached an agreement, the market spiked up. And as of 20 seconds ago, it is still tanking.
Blake on October 3, 2008 at 3:19 PM
NO! Lawyers first!
Oldnuke on October 3, 2008 at 3:21 PM
NP, hey, when we take over here, you wanna help build a Nuke plant in Junction? Put it right a bit off the Colorado River for cooling… plenty of desert type terrain out there…
Then we can use the power to cook the oil out of the Shale.
Romeo13 on October 3, 2008 at 3:21 PM
It seems that part of the problem is that too many members of congress are lawyers.
LimeyGeek on October 3, 2008 at 3:21 PM
Most of them are lawyers and members of congress, so kill them twice.
DFCtomm on October 3, 2008 at 3:22 PM
Well, most of Congress ARE Lawyers… so… killin two birds with one stone?
Romeo13 on October 3, 2008 at 3:22 PM
I’ll agree to that. I’m not too thrilled about the prospect of it myself. I’ve most certainly never killed someone before, never shot anything smarter than a deer or a rabbit, and never managed anything worse than a minor slash or two – no stitches, not even a scar – with my swords. I’m most certainly not gunning for a fight. I’m simply resigned to the reality that somewhere down the line, be it 2010 or 2020 or 2929, those interested in empowering the Hand of Government are going to push too far, and we’re going to have to choose between allowing ourselves to be pushed off the edge, pushing back, or making a leap of faith.
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 3, 2008 at 3:24 PM
My Republican Representative voted yes, both on Monday and today. I’ll not be voting for him again.
infidel4life on October 3, 2008 at 3:24 PM
Used to drive me nuts.
I lived on 331/2 C-3/4Rd. in Palisade. Try to give someone directions from out of town and they will think you are nuts.
cntrlfrk on October 3, 2008 at 3:24 PM
For anyone who believes there is no financial crisis, go read Nouriel Roubini’s latest entry on his Global Econmonitor.
Here is how he begins:
flyfisher on October 3, 2008 at 3:24 PM
Sounds good to me! Why don’t we shoot for one big enough to boil the oil and power the state. I’ll need say 1000 acres. 10 for the plant and 900 for the employee rec and hunting area :-)
Oldnuke on October 3, 2008 at 3:26 PM
Hey, I gotta better idea.
Looking at maps. Most of lib territory is inter-city.
Lets just circle the wagons and blockade everything from entering the cities.
We keep everything else.
cntrlfrk on October 3, 2008 at 3:26 PM
Can we get a copy of the final bill?
I want to print it and put it inside a nice glass case………… for my six year old son.
So when he comes to me in twenty years and says “What the Fu#k, Dad?!” I can break it out and explain to him …………… seems like no one cares today, but you never know what tomorrow will bring.
Seven Percent Solution on October 3, 2008 at 3:26 PM
This before or after the Bailout passed?
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 3, 2008 at 3:26 PM
I think you have this wrong. If it was gagged, how did they manage the 3/5 compromise?
As I understand it, they deliberately left the word “slavery” out of the Constitution because some felt the word would sully the otherwise pristine document.
But I could be misinformed.
philwynk on October 3, 2008 at 3:26 PM
And if Dagny can keep the trains running, you Mr. Wyatt will be a rich man.
JiangxiDad on October 3, 2008 at 3:27 PM
Sorry, I should have been more specific. After the formation of the Constitution.
As the country expanded, the issue of slavery became so divisive, that Congress passed a gag order on all petitions relating to slavery. It was the great JQA, in congress, not as potus, that finally broke that (unconstitutional) gag.
Spirit of 1776 on October 3, 2008 at 3:29 PM
What about CA though? Or are we just gonna wait for The Big One to hit and watch it break off and fall into the ocean/float away?
;)
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 3, 2008 at 3:29 PM
Quick pro’s and con’s?
JiangxiDad on October 3, 2008 at 3:29 PM
These days, not as many are giving their consent. Trouble is, their numbers are not sufficent to scale back the Beast.
ManlyRash on October 3, 2008 at 3:30 PM
I like how now when the market slides the Associated Press says they are “off highs” but before they were in crisis because the bailout failed.
Could it be the market falls regardless of how the vote goes because the vote is bad news?
Dr B on October 3, 2008 at 3:31 PM
Would be a pain to get the Power lines over the divide to Denver, but it could be done…
And heck, having the spigot on the Colorado could bring in a lot of revenue to a new country as well… California and such would still need the water..
Plus, Grand Junction, believe it or not, has a couple of fairly good Winerys…
Crap… I may move… LOL
Romeo13 on October 3, 2008 at 3:31 PM
Certain entities, when they become large enough, become self-sustaining.
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 3, 2008 at 3:31 PM
Agreed. But that will begin changing very soon.
ManlyRash on October 3, 2008 at 3:32 PM
If and when then the subject is appropriate. Right now, my focus is on what can be done.
Spirit of 1776 on October 3, 2008 at 3:34 PM
I read it this morning, pre-bailout.
He also wrote this:
In the article he advises that we must “Radically redesign the Treasury TARP rescue plan.” Of course, Congress wasn’t listening to Nouriel Roubini. Why should we expect them to listen to serious economists like Roubini who predicted this mess long ago when they have Sec. Paulson, Chris Dodd, and Barney Frank?
flyfisher on October 3, 2008 at 3:34 PM
Dam, Bush already signed this abomination.
Sure didn’t waste no time getting the Check book open.
Romeo13 on October 3, 2008 at 3:37 PM
A good first step is to explore the possibility of a constitutional challenge – assert that congress has no authority to appropriate money for such a cause.
LimeyGeek on October 3, 2008 at 3:37 PM
I can’t speak for MR, but here I agree with you, which is why I’m still optimistic about McCain/Palin until the election is actually over.
It’s coming, but anything that can be done to delay it will most certainly help. And it can’t hurt to have a plan of action at least vaguely in mind….
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 3, 2008 at 3:37 PM
Sadly, he DID already say that he would sign it the instant it hit his desk. He was just waiting on Congress.
:|
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 3, 2008 at 3:38 PM
Bush is a perfect example of a man that had greatness within reach, but then pissed it away like a dumb jock.
LimeyGeek on October 3, 2008 at 3:38 PM
A very cursory examination of our history indicates that the internal divisions that either nearly divided us or actually did divide us were rooted in the economy. The causes of the Revolution can easily be traced back to the perceived fundamental unfairness of Parliament’s economic policies after the French and Indian War. Shay’s Rebellion rested on failure of Congress to do anything to relieve the economic desperation of Massachusetts farmers. The Whiskey Rebellion was the initial reaction by rebellious frontiersmen to what they considered to be an unfair extention of national authority. Part of the rise of political parties can be traced to Hamilton’s economic initiatives and certainly Jackson as the slayer of the National Bank. A secession crisis during the War of 1812 as New England threatened to leave the union due to drastic econmic conditions resulting from trade restrictions. Further secession crisis in the early 19th century caused by the belief that the national government was imposing what southern states thought to be unfair tariffs. And the ultimate in secession…the Civil War…caused by the South’s perceived attack on slavery, the engine that drove the southern economy. There are other examples but I’ve already belabored the point.
The argument can be made that the great divisions that have resulted in this country have been economically driven and have, at times, resulted in violence and revolution when those who have been offended believe, rightly or wrongly, that there is no longer a political remedy. Are we at that point yet? I don’t think so, but I don’t for one moment think that it is an impossiblity
sdd on October 3, 2008 at 3:44 PM
Rep. DeFazio, a Dem who voted no, said the bailout wasn’t about Americans’ ability to get credit. For anyone interested in the possible influence of the ChiComs on the bailout, here is a videoclip of Rep. DeFazio. At around the 2:45 mark, Rep DeFazio states the PRC “wants their money back or they are threatening us”. He also said Paulson doesn’t understand banking because he is a speculator, not a banker. DeFazio says there are another trillion dollar in junk securities out there.
flyfisher on October 3, 2008 at 3:47 PM
VERY Nicely done!! This current situation of the market becoming piece by piece more socialized certainly makes for another brick in the wall. I never noticed this trend before, thank you :)
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 3, 2008 at 3:47 PM
Good post.
Spirit of 1776 on October 3, 2008 at 3:49 PM
-134.61 After bail-out passes.
+250.00 Before vote on bail-out.
Gee thanks!
carbon_footprint on October 3, 2008 at 3:50 PM
I had my enjoyment for the day. When the bailout vote was getting ready to pass, the market was up about 300. When the bill passed and the market began tanking, you could just see the faces of the morons on CNBC in utter disbelief. Gee?!?! They just knew it was going to skyrocket huge when the thing passed. Of course, it’s morons like this that were calling for the end of the world and had soooooo many people convinced it was true. Now we find the, as usual, your typical toenail clipping knows much, much more than they do…. and we just gave them a cool billion. Add to that, when the market tanked Monday, it was pushed as dropping 777 when it was really only 400 or so as it was already down 380ish when the first bailout vote failed. So, a drop of 400 on a failure of the bailout vote and (at this time) an apparent drop of 450 when it passes. Really good idea there.
CC
CapedConservative on October 3, 2008 at 3:52 PM
This bill rescued the economy. By starting a market correction ;)
Spirit of 1776 on October 3, 2008 at 3:55 PM
Applauds….
You might add the French Revolutions spark was due to a financial crises…
and Hitler rose to power on an Political/Economic messege after bank failures in Germany (caused by our banks calling in loans due to our own financial mess).
Romeo13 on October 3, 2008 at 3:55 PM
Last Friday we were all going to become Raggedy Man on Sep 29th, then 30th. Nothing happened. Suddenly Raggedy Man was coming on Oct 1st, then 2nd. Still no Raggedy Man. Supermarket still open. McDonalds still cooked up #1 meals. MSNBC was not turned into a blank screen.
Maybe Raggedy Man will come next Monday? Or Tuesday maybe?
Limerick on October 3, 2008 at 3:56 PM
My plea is this: If the Democrats increase their majorities in both chambers, there is no way Frank/Dodd/Emanuel/Raines/Johnson will ever pay, in any way, for their complicity in this nonsense. If you want your grandkids’ textbooks to say that a lack of regulation caused this, instead of a constellation of bad regulations and a flight to housing-based investments, go right ahead and usher in the Age of Obama.
DrSteve on October 3, 2008 at 3:57 PM
lol
carbon_footprint on October 3, 2008 at 3:59 PM
no need to go alone. have buckets. will travel.
AZ_Redneck on October 3, 2008 at 3:59 PM
And the market is still tanking…
Blake on October 3, 2008 at 4:00 PM
Lots of AZ folks here :D *sticks out thumb*
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 3, 2008 at 4:01 PM
Well… laters all.. gotta get to the liquor store… and gonna burn some animal flesh on the grill tonight…
May as well go out in style.
Romeo13 on October 3, 2008 at 4:02 PM
I think he came this afternoon….
CC
CapedConservative on October 3, 2008 at 4:08 PM
GOLLY! The market suuuuuuure loves this bailout doesn’t! /SARC/
Ahhhhhh yes……Congress fixed everything.
FiveWays on October 3, 2008 at 4:10 PM
Sad day for America, and as such for liberty, Capitalism and sanity.
“Humanity” deserves what it has coming.
Entelechy on October 3, 2008 at 4:11 PM
Comcast’s “news” ( propaganda ) home page already shows a half-dozen stories originating since the vote about how the ‘bailout / rescue ‘ is only the first step, won’t cure all the problems, is only a start, etc.
Again, I’m stunned……
Janos Hunyadi on October 3, 2008 at 4:11 PM
Signing that bill put Barry in office for eight instead of four years. Thanks to all who were afraid to cut up their credit cards. Yeah. I said it.
Limerick on October 3, 2008 at 4:13 PM
Signed into law by the President. It’s over, folks.
It’s all over.
newton on October 3, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Of the West Slope?
Junction can be hot and dry in the summer. Year-round for that matter.
Whole valley from Glenwood Springs down to Junction poppin’ full of gas wells.
1-2 hour drive from the slopes (in opposite direction of the normal Denver weekend mess)
Expensive homes.
Turning into ‘Little Cali.’
Not much industry.
cntrlfrk on October 3, 2008 at 4:17 PM
Rep. Brad Sherman Martial Law
MB4 on October 3, 2008 at 4:18 PM
Has the $700B check been cut to Goldman Sachs yet?
CC
CapedConservative on October 3, 2008 at 4:20 PM
So within hours of the dawning realization that this socialist shitstreak *shock horror* isn’t the magical pixie dust it was promised to be, the narrative now shifts to “only the first step”.
Kinda like how Communism really does work if only you do it right…..
LimeyGeek on October 3, 2008 at 4:21 PM
Karl Radek: Vladimir Ilyich, where are we going to get enough rope to hang the whole bourgeoisie?
Vladimir Ilyich Lenin: They will sell it to us themselves.
MB4 on October 3, 2008 at 4:25 PM
Necessary Evil. I don’t like it, but if the economy goes down the tubes, the Democrats win and the Republicans lose and that means more regs, more taxes, and more of all the things conservatives do not like.
But it is a bitter pill.
I am beginning to wonder if the Democrats are trying to wreck the economy. There was a time when I would have called that paranoid or cynical..but nothing would surprise me any more.
Terrye on October 3, 2008 at 4:26 PM
To do is to be.
- Descartes
To be is to do.
- Voltaire
Do be do be do.
- Frank Sinatra
MB4 on October 3, 2008 at 4:29 PM
Do me do me do me.
-American taxpayer voting for Obama
cntrlfrk on October 3, 2008 at 4:31 PM
10325.38 -157.47 1.50
Yeah, Rescue Day ends in Red.
carbon_footprint on October 3, 2008 at 4:31 PM
I wish I could say that that is hyperbole…….but alas…….I can not.
*sigh*
FiveWays on October 3, 2008 at 4:31 PM
I am beginning to wonder if the Democrats are trying to wreck the economy. There was a time when I would have called that paranoid or cynical..but nothing would surprise me any more.
Terrye on October 3, 2008 at 4:26 PM
I started to laugh, then I realized you were serious.
You actually believe the dems wouldn’t do ANYTHING do win an election?
Bishop on October 3, 2008 at 4:35 PM
What good fortune for governments that the people do not think.
- Adolf Hitler
MB4 on October 3, 2008 at 4:35 PM
A Republican is someone who learns more and more about less and less, and ultimately knows everything about nothing. A Democrat is someone who learns less and less about more and more, and ultimately knows nothing about everything.
MB4 on October 3, 2008 at 4:37 PM
Heh.
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 3, 2008 at 4:37 PM
No offense but uhm……….have you been in a cave the last 8 years?
FiveWays on October 3, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Wall Street to Main Street:
Thanks a lot for the 700B$. Now go s%rew yourself.
djtnt on October 3, 2008 at 4:40 PM
Signed into law by the President. It’s over, folks.
It’s all over.
newton on October 3, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Oh come on, please…”It’s over?” Get a grip.
You still have your house until next week, your rights until next month and your freedom until next year.
You still have about three months or so of living your life as you know it, then the shit hits the fan, the balloon goes up and you can start thumbing through the Boy Scout handbook for survival tips.
If you have a copy of the Constitution laying around, you might as well burn it, it’s not longer useful.
Bishop on October 3, 2008 at 4:40 PM
Surely you must be mistaken.
Barry ChicagObama said he would fix everything.
FiveWays on October 3, 2008 at 4:41 PM
No no no no no. Keep it. We’ll need it for reference purposes during the writeup.
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 3, 2008 at 4:43 PM
Mine too, Spirit. Mine too. But if Obama’s current thug tactics are any indicator, we’ll have a laundry list of reasons to secede.
Don’t put quite so much value on the ‘arena of ideas’. Conservatism, when compared to the alternatives, looks “too hard” for many people.
The problem is not in the idea itself; the problem is that people are notoriously bad about remembering why conservatism is good. Not that our current culture helps any.
Dark-Star on October 3, 2008 at 4:43 PM
$700B would have bought alot of free healthcare under Commisar Obama. Ah well.
Chuck Schick on October 3, 2008 at 4:43 PM
It was $857 Billion.
carbon_footprint on October 3, 2008 at 4:44 PM
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