Vatican official calls Democrats “the party of death”
posted at 2:10 pm on October 2, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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The elevation of Joseph Ratzinger to Pope Benedict XVI has brought a new assertiveness to the Roman Catholic Church, especially at the intersection of politics and life issues. The new prefect of the Vatican Supreme Court, the former Archbishop Raymond Burke of St. Louis, warned in an interview with an Italian newspaper that the Democratic Party is well on its way to becoming the “party of death” in the United States. Burke called for greater discipline within the American church for holding Catholic politicians accountable for their actions:
Vatican officials seldom single out political leaders who differ with the Church on issues like abortion rights or embryonic stem cell research. But now that the Vatican’s highest court is led by an American, the former St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke, we can expect things to get more explicit in Vatican City — at least when when it comes to U.S. politics.
Burke, who was named prefect of the Vatican’s Supreme Court of the Apostolic Signature in June, told the Italian Catholic newspaper Avvenire that the U.S. Democratic Party risked “transforming itself definitively into a party of death for its decisions on bioethical issues.” He then attacked two of the party’s most high profile Catholics — vice presidential candidate Joe Biden and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi — for misrepresenting Church teaching on abortion.
He said Biden and Pelosi, “while presenting themselves as good Catholics, have presented Church doctrine on abortion in a false and tendentious way.”
Benedict chose Burke for a reason. He wants a closer focus on the way Catholics handle issues of life, especially abortion, in the public square. The church spent most of the last three decades quietly backing away from the notion of politicians who claim to be practicing Catholics and yet support abortions, which the church doctrine rejects so forcefully that it is a de facto ex-communicating event. Burke led the charge on this in 2004 during the presidential campaign when he openly called for John Kerry’s bishop to deny him the Eucharist.
Of course, politicians do not have to remain in the Catholic Church; it’s a completely voluntary association. If they disagree with the foundational doctrines of the church, of which opposition to abortion is a key tenet, then it behooves both the politican and the church to facilitate that separation. The silence from the American bishops over the last few decades has been seen as a tacit acquiescence to the arguments made by Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden that abortion is just one of a number of “social justice” issues, and that Catholics can remain in good standing by trading abortion support for confiscatory policy measures that address poverty and starvation.
Burke goes farther, though, in this statement. Until now, bishops have restricted their criticisms to Catholic politicians who work to support abortion rights. Burke has expanded this into a broader political argument, one that will create more controversy in the pews and in the general electorate, especially with pro-life Democrats who will resent the accusation. The church should pursue their mandate of Catholics first, and avoid partisan shots while focusing on issues instead.
Update: I see that, once again, I have to provide the link to the Catechism to explain excommunication in relation to abortion. Paragraph 2272 of the Catechism makes this plain:
Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,” “by the very commission of the offense,” and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.
The phrase “latae sententiae” means the sentence applies automatically, without any action needed by the church. The act constitutes a willful abandonment of the church, a self-imposed excommunication. If the person repents of their sin through confession and resolves to sin no more, they can return to the Eucharist.
It’s not me “kicking people out for political disagreements”, as one commenter accused. It’s the rules of the church, and it couldn’t possibly be plainer. I don’t have the power to kick people out of any church community, nor would I want it. I’m explaining the actual doctrine of the church, and why Archbishop Burke and the Vatican have become much more assertive in applying it. And if people resolve to formally cooperate with abortion anyway, then they have chosen to live in a state of excommunication.
One more point. I’m not arguing that Burke doesn’t have the right to accuse the Democrats of being “the party of death”; of course he does. I just think it’s more effective to stay focused on the issues of abortion and life rather than get into a Dem-Rep debate. Saying “Democrats stink” is partisanship, if you will, while “abortion stinks” is issue-oriented debate.
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And the dead like the party so much, they vote for it.
lorien1973 on October 2, 2008 at 2:11 PM
Fixed.
Geronimo on October 2, 2008 at 2:11 PM
Excommunicate all Democrats! (They’re probably closet Eutychians anyway.)
Akzed on October 2, 2008 at 2:12 PM
The democratic party is the party of hate……..ok, death too.
volsense on October 2, 2008 at 2:14 PM
God bless Archbishop Burke! I wish all the
bishops and priests were like him.
Mulligan on October 2, 2008 at 2:14 PM
Excellent. The Church must make a stand. It’s clear what the Democrats are for and it is the culture of death.
From the funding of, celebration of and their tireless efforts to make abortion just another lifestyle choice, to their ties to radical left environmental groups who advocate population control, to their ties to the euthanasia movement, the Democratic Party is most definitely the death party.
And real Catholics, i.e. non-cafeteria faux Catholics, don’t even consider voting for Democrats.
NoDonkey on October 2, 2008 at 2:15 PM
spade a spade
jp on October 2, 2008 at 2:15 PM
Ah I see, life and death issues are not issues.
Maxx on October 2, 2008 at 2:16 PM
they should also call out Obama’s church a Racist and Looney Toon ‘church’ publicly. actually calling it a Cult would do.
jp on October 2, 2008 at 2:16 PM
According to that pu**y Bill Maher we are the United States of Stupid for having religion around or taking it seriously. Cant decide if religion is code for Bill Maher, but still this is what he claims. Don’t have to tell you how he leans.
Cardiganfox on October 2, 2008 at 2:16 PM
Misinformed dishonest “Crusades” comparison coming soon!
geckomon on October 2, 2008 at 2:16 PM
The man’s right. His clothes probably reek of Drakkar Noir for Choirboy but the man’s right.
Spanglemaker on October 2, 2008 at 2:17 PM
Facts is facts. I’m surprised that Ed writes this, because it’s Political Correctness saying “be a good Catholic and keep your speech restricted to Catholics”. Stinks. I could see AP saying this though.
As a Christian I’m more restricted in my speech than the average godless hedonist who’s speech should be more restricted in the public square.
kirkill on October 2, 2008 at 2:17 PM
Its the party of Lies as well. Liberalism is a lie, its natural they hate all Truth which includes the Church and sanctity of Life.
jp on October 2, 2008 at 2:17 PM
Ditto. I am sick of my fellow Catholics picking and choosing what to support and disguise their disagreements with the Church the way Biden and Pelosi have. If you have issue with the Catholic Church, then leave. No one is forcing them to stay.
jencab on October 2, 2008 at 2:18 PM
Why?
Ann Coulter says it and she’s mocked by the left and asked to hush by her competitors. The Catholic Church says somehow they shouldn’t wade into life and death?
Spirit of 1776 on October 2, 2008 at 2:19 PM
Democrats and Republicans are not issues. Abortion, embryonic stem-cell research, and poverty are issues. Burke should stick to the issues and leave partisan politics out of it — he’ll be much more effective on actual issues that way.
Ed Morrissey on October 2, 2008 at 2:19 PM
I am protestant but respect the Catholic church for being such a staunch defender of life.
It’s all about the culture of life.
no abortion, no death penalty!
disco on October 2, 2008 at 2:20 PM
Apparently, they also said that the sky was blue, but were not excoriated for that statement of fact like they will for this one.
Vashta.Nerada on October 2, 2008 at 2:21 PM
This isn’t a “partisan shot” though. Biden and Pelosi were deliberately misleading Catholics on Catholic tenets. This places in danger the mortal soul.
I’m sure the Archibishop would say the same thing about a “catholic” Republican, who spewed the same sort of lies and misrepresentations of Catholic teachings, except for the fact that there aren’t any.
And there is no question that the Democrats are the party of death. Pretending that they are not, merely to remain “non-partisan” is silly. Was it “partisan” to speak out against Nazi atrocities, as the Vatican did?
Sure it was and the Catholic Church should be partisan against the 21st Century equivelent of the early Nazi Party, our own beloved Democrat Party.
NoDonkey on October 2, 2008 at 2:22 PM
Glad to see my Church finally standing up to the Culture & Party of Death.
Its never to late to fight for what is right.
HERE THAT MCCAIN!!!! NEVER TO LATE TO FIGHT!!!!!
TheHat on October 2, 2008 at 2:22 PM
It’s about time. To me, the priests and bishops who have remained quiet on this topic can also be considered complicit in this culture of death.
sheesh on October 2, 2008 at 2:22 PM
If you believe that they are two sides of the same coin, then I suppose that is a dependable position.
I however, think they have two completely different moral frameworks. Seems relatively apparent to me as well considering how willing they are to deify a man for political gain.
Spirit of 1776 on October 2, 2008 at 2:23 PM
Joe Biden, the number two man of the PARTY OF DEATH. It has a nice RING to it doesn’t it?
To Couric… the right to LIFE, is an extreme position. LIFE is an EXTREME position?
originalpechanga on October 2, 2008 at 2:23 PM
Indeed, especially considering that there are some pro-choice Republican Catholics that could stand for a good talking to (Giuliani, etc.).
Abby Adams on October 2, 2008 at 2:23 PM
I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the Church’s willingness to publicly correct and chastise American politicians who have been misstating Church teaching this election cycle. It’s about time.
Maybe this is a sign of things to come and they will get around to defrocking Michael Pfleger.
Y-not on October 2, 2008 at 2:24 PM
I want to change my login name to that.
I don’t have a problem with a member of the Vatican speaking the truth. And if it’s cool with the Dems for the world to toss in their $.02 about our political process, than that extends to the Vatican as well. Also, I agree that if politicians (or anyone for that matter) cannot abide by the tennants of their church, they know where the door is.
Anna on October 2, 2008 at 2:24 PM
Pope John Paul also included contraception and capital punishment as part of the culture of death.
It is better to let politicians and their pastors work out their spiritual issues in private rather than via press releases.
dedalus on October 2, 2008 at 2:24 PM
The is no Democratic Party anymore, they have been consumed by far left liberalism. It is now called the Socialist Party of Obama.
Kevin in Washington State on October 2, 2008 at 2:24 PM
Raaaaaaaacist!!!!
/sarc
csdeven on October 2, 2008 at 2:25 PM
They catch on quickly.
Grafted on October 2, 2008 at 2:25 PM
In a no right or wrong only shades of gray party. death is just a relative state . . . right? Of course not, but that is the Party of the Democrats. What took the church so long to recognize their true nature?
rplat on October 2, 2008 at 2:25 PM
Not if said politicians publicly lie about church positions.
Vashta.Nerada on October 2, 2008 at 2:26 PM
Way to carry the media’s lies and slander against the Catholic Church.
Fact is, your child is about 100x’s more likely to get molested by a public school teacher. But you don’t hear about that, because the media LOVES public schools and hates the Catholic Church.
Plus, you can’t sue public school teachers, so attorneys can’t make millions out of producing paid liars to claim that they were molested 50 years ago.
NoDonkey on October 2, 2008 at 2:26 PM
Catholics believe they can be forgiven for sins by going to Confession in secret. So every time Democrats kill, steal, lie, or commit adultery, they will whisper, “Forgive me, Father Barack Hussein, for I have sinned.” Who replies, “I absolve you of all your sins, in the dreams of my father, myself, and the Washington Post.”
Steve Z on October 2, 2008 at 2:26 PM
The whole of the statement was to recognize an organized force behind the culture of death and the “catholic” people who are leaders in that force; a major political party in the United States.
geckomon on October 2, 2008 at 2:27 PM
The association is voluntary, but for some reason, many Catholics (mostly lapsed and ignorant of the Catechism) believe that if most Catholics think one way, then the Church is the one that should bend to their will, not the other way around.
It is, of course, absolute nonsense. If you are to believe the Church is the instrument of the Divine here on Earth, and you have priests, nuns, deacons & bishops studying and clarifying the faith for the faithful, then it is quite thick to believe that God should change to fit your needs, rather than you change to be more holy.
While the Church is hemorrhaging parishioners in the West, it’s not a necessary mandate to go lax on the Catechism to keep the pews full. Read Jeremiah if you want a good parallel.
Nethicus on October 2, 2008 at 2:27 PM
Biden and Pelosi aren’t Catholic. When was the last time they went to Mass? Hmmmmm
I think someone is going to be excommunicated soon.
upinak on October 2, 2008 at 2:28 PM
On a more serious note, if the Catholic Church (or any parish priest thereof) endorsed a candidate, they would lose their tax exemption. Has anyone from the IRS ever checked the tax exemption of the Church of AmeriKKKa?
Steve Z on October 2, 2008 at 2:29 PM
I see your point. Thanks for the clarification, in that case I agree.
Maxx on October 2, 2008 at 2:29 PM
LOL!
cntrlfrk on October 2, 2008 at 2:29 PM
Then again…. that’s a good point too.
Maxx on October 2, 2008 at 2:30 PM
Ed,
Does it matter that he was speaking to an Italian newspaper and not an American one make a difference? Has he called Pelosi et al out on the carpet in a US newspaper?
csdeven on October 2, 2008 at 2:30 PM
“if the Catholic Church (or any parish priest thereof) endorsed a candidate, they would lose their tax exemption.”
Really? Then why hasn’t that happened to the countless Protestant Churches/Islamic Mosques that allow jackass Democrats to preach from their pulpits every Sunday?
NoDonkey on October 2, 2008 at 2:31 PM
Wheat. Chaff.
Buh bye!
csdeven on October 2, 2008 at 2:31 PM
I would agree with Morrissey to a point. A good Pastor/Priest/Bartender can discuss issue in great detail without naming names and taking sides. It doesn’t take long to put two and two together to (man that’s a lot of to’s) figure out who, or what party they are speaking about.
cntrlfrk on October 2, 2008 at 2:32 PM
Pelosi pointed to a historical inconsistency within the Catholic Chuch on abortion. The one Biden clip I saw in response to the Pelosi was accurate. Biden may have said 10 other things that were wrong. It is hard to keep track of everything he says.
dedalus on October 2, 2008 at 2:32 PM
What is your opinion regarding 19th century churches who decided to ignore the issue of slavery in order to avoid partisan battles?
MarkTheGreat on October 2, 2008 at 2:32 PM
The DNC being the party of death applies beyond the principle reason, abortion, into the entire “charity” concept/practice since Democrats steal more from whatever do-good projects they fund than they ever invest into making the project a very real success for the dispossessed. Take Obama for example. He siphoned tax funded grants and provision directly into lawyers pockets and absolutely abandoned each subject for which funds were directed: the elderly HOUSING never was refurbished, no PARK, no educational programs installed within the public schools of Chicago IN CLASSROOMS OF SCHOOL CHILDREN, no responsible BANKING enforced for low-income housing, directing the downfall of Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac and our entire investment banking industry to the demise of everyone’s security if given his bail-out wish.
maverick muse on October 2, 2008 at 2:33 PM
“The church should pursue their mandate of Catholics first, and avoid partisan shots while focusing on issues instead.” It’s a BELIEF not a mandate. I’m glad to see the Church finally speaking up. I’m sick of people whining about religion supposedly being forced on them…those of us that do have beliefs have left-wing Godless doctrine forced upon us everyday.
DCJeff on October 2, 2008 at 2:33 PM
As a Catholic I have to disagree. Whilst there might be some Democrats who are pro-life they’re virtually invisible and would have less than no chance at all of being, for example, the Democratic presidential nominee given the power of the pro-abortion lobby within the Democratic party. In fact for me to even describe a ‘pro-abortion lobby’ within the Democratic party is virtually a redundancy. A belief in “abortion rights” is to all intents and purposes the defining tenet of the Democratic Party.
Don’t forget that the unprecedented rage and scorn poured on Sarah Palin was virtually from the instant the liberal-left discovered that she was pro-life. Any mockery since is window-dressing to the fact that the liberal-left will seek to destroy any candidate who opposes abortion. No such candidate would stand even the remotest chance of being the presidential or vice-presidential nominee for the modern Democratic Party, irrespective of how they performed in an interview with Katy Couric.
For too long Catholic voters have betrayed their consciences in ‘weighing up’ a candidate’s support for abortion against other issues and ended up voting for a pro-abortion candidate on the grounds that ‘oh well, but they are environmentally sound’, or ‘I like their stand on social justice issues’.
As the liberal-left have revealed with their visceral hatred of Palin no such weighing up occurs on the other side of the aisle (however much they might deny it). For the liberal-left there can be no tolerance of anyone who opposes the received wisdom on “abortion rights”.
It is time Catholics took a similarly absolutist stance for their own beliefs and against the pro-abortionists and in this regard it is the Democratic Party which is hands-down, out-of-the-park, no-question-about-it the absolutist pro-abortion party and for this reason alone Catholics should have no compunction in voting against them.
schiehallion on October 2, 2008 at 2:34 PM
“Pelosi pointed to a historical inconsistency within the Catholic Chuch on abortion.”
It wasn’t a historical inaccuracy, the issue of abortion has been settled since the second century and she pointed to some specious nonsense from 500 years ago.
Pelosi’s an idiot and a liar. She’s about as much of a Catholic as she is an American.
NoDonkey on October 2, 2008 at 2:34 PM
Party of Death, Party of Hate, Party of Defeat. Ok, getting to where I’m going to need to write them down.
Buzzy on October 2, 2008 at 2:34 PM
I really don’t know how I can make this clearer. Saying “Democrats stink” is not addressing issues but partisanship. Saying “abortion stinks” addresses the issues. When one says the former, it turns off a number of people who might otherwise listen to the latter.
Ed Morrissey on October 2, 2008 at 2:34 PM
and the vatican is the party of child molestors
venicesurfer on October 2, 2008 at 2:34 PM
Ed – It is painful to be virtuous. Telling the virtuous to mind their own business is absolutely ineffectual for the virtuous has courage (by definition)to speak out about evil and despair. The virtuous should never be silent. The stones will cry out!!!!!
Fuquay Steve on October 2, 2008 at 2:35 PM
The Church does not excommunicate solely for truancy. Pelosi and Biden, however, are dangerously close to falling over that precipice by publicly and blatantly misrepresenting the Church’s stance on abortion and advocacy of life. If they publicly denounce basic Church doctrine, that’s when we might see some kind of action from the US Bishops.
geckomon on October 2, 2008 at 2:36 PM
Exactly. LIke I said, they are lying about church positions.
Vashta.Nerada on October 2, 2008 at 2:36 PM
Pro-life Democrats who have remained silent while this whole “pro-death for poverty activism” barter system developed have supported abortion by their silence. They should be at the forefront in changing the Democrat position on abortion. Instead they go out there and elect the very people the Catholic Church is taking on.
The church’s mandate and mission is to spread the word and ministry of Christ- not limiting its work to taking care of Catholics and staying out of political discourse. If it makes pro-life Democrats uncomfortable to hear a Vatican offical bashing their party GOOD! Burke is saying something that pro-life Democrats really should have done years ago if they believe the tenets of their faith. The political process is the only way change will take place on the issue of killing off unborn life. If that means Burke has to be accused of taking “partisan shots” so be it. He’s just doing the job that rank-and-file American Catholics refuse to do.
highhopes on October 2, 2008 at 2:36 PM
Well, this much is certain: When the Catholic Church talks about death or child rape, it speaks authoritatively.
paul006 on October 2, 2008 at 2:37 PM
AMEN.
I get taxes forcibly extracted from my bank account to fund public “schools” that do not educate, but spend their time indoctrinating children in a far-left, anti-American, anti-Catholic ideaology.
Schools I would not send my children to, if I were paid the amount I’m being forced to give to them.
NoDonkey on October 2, 2008 at 2:37 PM
Ed,
I don’t thinks its apartisan shot because that would suggest that the Catholic Church specifically wants the Republican Party to win the election, which I doubt. I think they just want politicians who publicly support abortion to change their position and seeing as how thats basically the Democrats it is necessary to focus on them.
aengus on October 2, 2008 at 2:38 PM
ha, Fatwa issued against Pakistan president for flirting with Palin
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/02/pakistani-religious-leader-issues-fatwa-president-complimenting-palin/
jp on October 2, 2008 at 2:38 PM
And the Democratic Party is the party of child molestors, isn’t it?
And one of the biggest child molestors, Rep. Barney Frank, is the one who also screwed the pooch regarding our current financial crisis.
Jackass.
NoDonkey on October 2, 2008 at 2:39 PM
The churches that are hemorrhaging parishioners are precisely those churches that have decided to go lax on their respective catechisms. The churches that teach the Bible as written (as opposed to the modern sanitized version that takes out all portions that might challenge or offend) are growing by leaps and bounds.
OT: I don’t remember the name of the group, but they put on short (1 to 2 minute) radio plays on various morality issues. One of the plays was a fake commercial for a new version of the bible. Written in pencil so that you could erase the parts you didn’t like.
MarkTheGreat on October 2, 2008 at 2:39 PM
She pointed to the church’s position on ensoulment which was taught by saints, ecumenical councils and Popes over the course of hundreds of years.
dedalus on October 2, 2008 at 2:41 PM
Hey Ed,
Would it be possible that the next time you or Allah takes a Headline and makes a blog post out of it…
…that you port over the comments?
Religious_Zealot on October 2, 2008 at 2:41 PM
We can play semantics all day long, but everyone knows you can’t parse catholic or any other Christian church doctrine to allow abortion.
Vashta.Nerada on October 2, 2008 at 2:44 PM
I’m not sure which churches you mean here but surely not the Catholic Church. In the Bull of Pope Eugene IV in 1435 he condemned the enslavement of peoples on the newly colonised Canary Islands. He commanded the faithful to give freedom to those they had enslaved without the reception of any money.
In 1537 Pope Paul III described enslavers as allies of the devil and he said that slavery is unjustifiable. These condemnations of slavery have persisted to the present day with successive popes decrying these and other injustices. The Catholic Church did not have the political power to end all cases of slavery but it publicly disapproved of it.
aengus on October 2, 2008 at 2:44 PM
Good gosh. I’d hate to have the Catholic Church line up with the Republicans. You tell ‘em where to get off, Ed!
And he didn’t say “Democrats stink!” He said they’re becoming the party of death. Sounds like a more substantive criticism to me.
As for angering the pro-life Democrat(s?), is it unusual for the Church to unapologetically challenge people to put their money where their mouths are?
Waay too “fair and balanced and mature.” How do you reconcile your gay marriage views and your Catholic faith? A double-back flip with a twist?
misterpeasea on October 2, 2008 at 2:44 PM
The church is composed of sinners and saints. The sinners are being dealt with as appropriate. Meanwhile in the real world, what is being done about the pedophiles that plague our public schools? Nothing, nada, zero, zip. The Church is repentant and is actually returning to Orthodoxy. It is the liberalazation of the Church that permitted the growth of the evil of some molestors. Those days are waning. Open your mind and truth may enter.
Fuquay Steve on October 2, 2008 at 2:45 PM
Pelosi was wrong to imply that there is wiggle room with the Vatican’s current position.
Her opponents were wrong to imply that the Catholic Church has always taught that abortion was murder.
dedalus on October 2, 2008 at 2:45 PM
It’s not partisanship when addressing the facts of voting records. It is not of the opinion of Burke about how the Democrats, as a whole, have voted on the issues of abortion because the record can be verified and quantified.
The subject matter is not just the issue of life, but of the influential group in the U.S. that participates in the arena justifying abortion and specifically the members in the Democratic Party who identify themselves as Catholics, yet pick & choose and misrepresent the Catholic Doctrine.
geckomon on October 2, 2008 at 2:46 PM
Which, in Catholic doctrine, has NOTHING to do with the issue of abortion.
The abortion issue, as has been stated, has been a ‘done deal’ since the very early years of the church.
The oldest non-scriptural Christian writing that has been found, the Didache , which dates back to the late 1st Century, has an explicit statement against abortion:
The ensoulement issue was a completely different issue that was much later picked up on and used in the abortion debate.
This is were Pelosi messed up – not understanding the difference between the two.
Religious_Zealot on October 2, 2008 at 2:46 PM
The Episcopal Church and their new Presiding Bishop openly support the use of abortion. There is even an official office of the church for just that purpose.
Talk is cheap when it comes to stopping genocide.
Hening on October 2, 2008 at 2:46 PM
The Catholic Church follows the bible, yes? I rest my case.
Vashta.Nerada on October 2, 2008 at 2:47 PM
That there has been a debate on ensoulment within the church is not evidence that abortion up till birth is ok.
That the position of the church has evolved as medical understanding has evolved is hardly surprising.
MarkTheGreat on October 2, 2008 at 2:47 PM
Ensoulment is a red herring, the church has always taught that abortion is wrong.
She was referencing St. Augustine, who lived 500 years ago, when they had no idea when human life was formed. They didn’t have any idea about conception.
St. Augustine was unsure only about how human life was formed. We know now. Pelosi probably has some concept. It’s formed at conception. Case closed.
NoDonkey on October 2, 2008 at 2:48 PM
Ed – What no freedom of speech for the virtuous? I expect more from you. Only the demons get to voice their opinions about the election? I thought Europe projects a O victory (by a 80-20 margin) Isn’t the Vatican in Europe?
Fuquay Steve on October 2, 2008 at 2:49 PM
I half agree. On the other hand opposing abortion without also dealing with the party that publicly pushes the issue is like dealing with sin while ignoring the works of Satan.
MarkTheGreat on October 2, 2008 at 2:49 PM
Arrested development.
geckomon on October 2, 2008 at 2:50 PM
The Catholic Church has opposed abortion from the word go. It isn’t a matter of debate.
schiehallion on October 2, 2008 at 2:50 PM
I’ve already replied to your prior assertion, but let me repeat myself.
Ensoulment and abortion are two different issues.
The official church stance against abortion is documented in the Didache which dates to the late 1st century.
And the church has NEVER wavered on their teaching that abortion is murder.
Religious_Zealot on October 2, 2008 at 2:53 PM
The Vatican isn’t voting in this election…
right2bright on October 2, 2008 at 2:53 PM
If a fetus doesn’t have a soul it can’t be murdered. That position was supported Decretum Gratiani and by Popes such as Pope Innocent III and Pope Gregory XIV.
Decretum Gratiani was actually officially used by the Church for hundreds of years. Whereas for 90% of Church history they didn’t have an actual copy of the Didache to teach from.
dedalus on October 2, 2008 at 2:54 PM
You can actually trace this back to Exodus, where human life was placed at the highest value under the Law. Christ simply emphasized this and made it a key part of His teachings.
Hening on October 2, 2008 at 2:54 PM
Guilty. My political party shame bucket is now full.
captivated_dem on October 2, 2008 at 2:54 PM
At times, in the Middle Ages, the Church held that it wasn’t murder.
dedalus on October 2, 2008 at 2:56 PM
By mischief, the author is meaning permanent harm. If the child survives, penalty for causing abortion is civil. If the child dies, it is a capital offense.
Vashta.Nerada on October 2, 2008 at 2:56 PM
Here’s an example of Unity. although I am not a Catholic, and my faith is vastly different than theirs…we agree on this issue.
If the Democrats were to work to end all forms of Abortion, both I and the Catholic church would cheer.
I salute the church for stating this before the election, instead of waiting for a ’safer’ time.
Doug on October 2, 2008 at 2:56 PM
This, after i commented about the gay ‘lifestyle’ being part of the Left’s culture of death. I love the synchronicity.
Christine on October 2, 2008 at 2:57 PM
I agree Maxx. The media injected the issues into Catholicism when they tried to make the scandals with the child molestations a referendum on their entire faith. I applaud them being back and in force and not afraid of a media body that was trying to literally destroy their church.
hawkdriver on October 2, 2008 at 2:58 PM
Hold on there… it’s not about slogans, it’s about what God actually says on the subject… and he is most definitely FOR the death penalty, to be carried out by government, in specific situations!
dominigan on October 2, 2008 at 3:00 PM
Just thought that statement sounded peculiar.
geckomon on October 2, 2008 at 3:01 PM
The Didache is a witness to the fact that the Catholic Church has believed abortion to be wrong from the earliest times. The Catholic Church itself teaches that it (the Catholic Church) has affirmed the moral evil of abortion from the first century. Why on earth should you presume to know more about the Catholic Church’s position on abortion than the Catholic Church itself?
schiehallion on October 2, 2008 at 3:01 PM
DAMN FARKING STRAIGHT AND I FOR ONE AM SICK OF IT
Sorry Ed, but I call BS. The man’s right and right on the money and should be shouting it as loudly as possible to anyone who will listen and a good portion of those who won’t.
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 2, 2008 at 3:02 PM
Ditto, Mark.
Pelosi willfully misstated Church teaching and did so while trumpeting herself as a good Catholic. That’s why she was corrected and chastised so publicly by Cardinal Egan. The Church leaders appropriately recognized that double-speak by Catholic politicians is leading American Catholics down the garden path.
If Nancy wants to risk eternal damnation by promoting a culture of death in her work as a legislator, that’s her business. When she decided to try to bring others down that path with her by claiming that her position on abortion was supported by Church teaching, it became the Church’s business.
Y-not on October 2, 2008 at 3:02 PM
Thanks for the link. Very informative.
misterpeasea on October 2, 2008 at 3:02 PM
And let the Democrats vow to tax away the church’s tax-exempt status, even while Democrats regularly make partisan speeches in Protestant Churches and Islamic Mosques.
Take it away.
For taking a stand against the culture of death, donations to the Church would soar.
NoDonkey on October 2, 2008 at 3:03 PM
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