Palin-Biden debate chat and commentary!
posted at 8:00 pm on October 2, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
Tonight, Sarah Palin and Joe Biden square off at 9 pm ET for the only Vice Presidential debate for this election. Palin needs to convince American voters that she is up to the task of the second-highest position in the executive branch, while Biden has to avoid making any major gaffes that will force the national media to report them.
Can she do it? The Examiner’s Mark Tapscott predicts that Palin will prevail:
Call me a cockeyed optimist or a fool or whatever, but I predict Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin will be the clear winner over Sen. Joe Biden in tonight’s debate between the vice-presidential nominees. Not because I think she’s a master debater – though she clearly has been underestimated in this department before – but because she possesses the one qualification nobody else on either ticket has – She’s not part of the Washington crowd.
I’m somewhat less sanguine than Mark, but willing to be proven wrong. I think both candidates will do well tonight. Biden’s already been through more than a dozen of these in this cycle alone, and he hasn’t made a serious mistake in any of them. His gaffes come in less-guarded moments. Don’t expect anything but a competent and sharp performance from Biden.
Palin will do very well indeed, and again the low expectations from recent media coverage will make it look even better. I don’t expect her to top Biden, but she really doesn’t need to do that anyway. If she comes across as confident, assertive, honest, and engaged, she will do fine — and in this debate the tie would be seen as a huge win for Palin.
I’ll be at Trocadero’s tonight, at the party for AM 1280 The Patriot, and won’t be live-blogging. We will have a panel discussion before and after the debate, and I may try to broadcast through Ustream for the event. Let’s see how that works, but don’t miss the live chat room! Jazz Shaw of The Moderate Voice moderates the chat, and he does a great job riding herd on the conversation. Be sure to register at Ustream to participate in our raucous live-chat sessions. (And if the log-in prompt doesn’t come up in the chat box below, use this link instead.)
See you at the debate!










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Here comes Ifill.
Ronnie on October 2, 2008 at 8:48 PM
Boy I hope this debate goes well. I’m gonna start with some Captain Morgan. If it starts going down hill I’ll move to some single malt scotch. If its a disaster I’ll just drink boxed wine, a big box. It will help me vomit easier.
JonPrichard on October 2, 2008 at 8:48 PM
who trusts anything dick morris has to say
rsdm9154 on October 2, 2008 at 8:49 PM
Who comes up with the questions for the debate? I can see Ifil asking quetions meant to help Biden and hurt Palin… So where do the questions come from?…the candidates don’t get them in advance so this could all be geared towards Obama Biden
CCRWM on October 2, 2008 at 8:50 PM
I think the issue is that Frank’s idea of reform and Bush’s idea of reform were not even remotely the same thing. Frank was so much a part of the whole subsidized housing thing that everyone he did was with that goal in mind, maintaining the status quo. Bush was not ideologically {to use Frank’s word} into that kind of reform. At least that is the impression I got, Bush was concerned about the books, the viability of the programs..not finding new ways to perpetuate them through a myriad of complex socalled reforms.
At least that is the impression I got. But, what do I know?
I don’t think anyone did enough because I don’t think they really believed it would blow up in their faces like this.
Terrye on October 2, 2008 at 8:50 PM
Maybe they could lower the basketball hoop and let Barracuda shoot a few.
Ronnie on October 2, 2008 at 8:51 PM
Ugh. Its starting. I’m nervous. Can’t believe I’m so invested in this debate. Back when Reagan was debating for the ’80 race I was on an aircraft carrier in the gulf of Oman and only got to read the results later. Don’t know if I can watch . . .
JonPrichard on October 2, 2008 at 8:52 PM
Well he did get the Hillary/Condi match up right.
Wait!
carbon_footprint on October 2, 2008 at 8:52 PM
JonPrichard on October 2, 2008 at 8:48 PM
Fisheye Pinot Grigio is good if you like that type of wine- and it comes in a 3 lt box if the regular bottle or 2 lt bottle is not enough!!!!
kareyk on October 2, 2008 at 8:52 PM
I’m so sick of O’Reilly. I read HA while I have him on in the background…I’m sick of Morris and Rove and all those people they always have on…I want to see more people like Thompson…Bruce Inghramn
CCRWM on October 2, 2008 at 8:53 PM
If you would like to embed.
Kmarion on October 2, 2008 at 8:54 PM
Great reading while we wait from Bill Whittle on NRO
— Bill Whittle lives and works in Los Angeles.
NightmareOnKStreet on October 2, 2008 at 8:54 PM
kareyk on October 2, 2008 at 8:41 PM
Great, the trolls are giving each other props. Very funny.
Cindy Munford on October 2, 2008 at 8:54 PM
LOL. Got a bottle of Glenmorangie Lasanta sittin’ on the counter right now…mostly gone already (tough week!).
dugan on October 2, 2008 at 8:55 PM
Here’s the CSPAN stream.
ejbentz on October 2, 2008 at 8:55 PM
Damn, I forgot to hit the ABC store…so much for my plans for a debate drinking game…
uncivilized on October 2, 2008 at 8:55 PM
I know what Ifill’s job is at the debate, but my question is – who stops her if she gets into Obama shilling mode?
Ryan Gandy on October 2, 2008 at 8:56 PM
Cindy Munford on October 2, 2008 at 8:54 PM
am I missing something? or are you calling me a troll? and I don’t think this is the first time. I assure you I am most certainly not a troll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kareyk on October 2, 2008 at 8:56 PM
Oh there’s K. Powers. Allah is drooling. lol
carbon_footprint on October 2, 2008 at 8:57 PM
kareyk on October 2, 2008 at 8:56 PM
Sorry, not what I meant, TAV is though.
Cindy Munford on October 2, 2008 at 8:57 PM
Great reading while we wait from Bill Whittle on NRO
NightmareOnKStreet on October 2, 2008 at 8:59 PM
apology accepted but didn’t see TAV comment…. let’s pray for a great showing from Gov. Palin!!!!!!!!
kareyk on October 2, 2008 at 8:59 PM
Hopefully Sarah
Ronnie on October 2, 2008 at 8:59 PM
KP is a cutie. And one of the few libs I can listen too. She’s still wrong, of course, but not annoying.
pugwriter on October 2, 2008 at 8:59 PM
When I first got to college, back in the last few weeks of the Seventies, I finally got a chance to see an ordinary game of Dungeons and Dragons. My immediate inclination was to play as a Paladin: the pinnacle of Lawful Good, a character required to dash in and fight overwhelmingly powerful evil forces anywhere and at whatever odds. These contests were short, depressing and hilarious, but all D&D really came down to in the end was slaying small monsters, taking their gold, buying slightly better gear and then slaying slightly larger monsters. Why not just save some time and become a Vorpal Sword distributor? Then you get the weapons and the gold, and people bring them both to you. And so a larval conservative was born. And I never played again.
That was the attitude I took into The Lord of the Rings when the first of the trilogy appeared in 2001, just a few months after the Two Towers actually did fall and the idea of good and evil suddenly became — to me and no doubt to you too — a great deal less ironic and a great deal more real.
And there, in the darkness, staring up at that screen, I marveled at this monumental font of deep and eternal ideas: the aversion to facing danger, even when it is right in front of us; the value of old and true allies; the corrosive force of addiction; responsibility forsaken, then reclaimed… and through it all the fear that we may be lesser sons of greater fathers, and that we may no longer have the courage or the will to defend the City entrusted to our care.
This, and more, what was what John Ronald Reuel Tolkien was trying to teach me, down that dark river of the future — and he ought to know. The Lord of the Rings was written between 1937 through 1949… years of dark waters, indeed.
A few years before Tolkien put pen to paper, an event to ok place that a man of his education would have undoubtedly been aware. On February 9th, 1933, the ruling elite of the world’s great Civilization held a debate in the Oxford Union. With thunderclouds growing dark across the English Channel, at a time when resolute action could still have averted the worst catastrophe the world has ever known, these elites resolved that “This House will in no circumstances fight for its King and Country.”
The Resolution passed by a vote of 275 to 153. Needless to say, this vote did not avert the fight. It guaranteed it.
How much of the weight of that, I wonder, sat along side him as he penned page after page about the decline of the Men of the West. For taken in its entirety, The Lord of the Rings is about the collective regeneration of the will and courage of a previous age, and ends with the hope that the greatest days of the City lie yet ahead.
I live a few miles from Santa Monica High School, in California. There, young men and women are taught that America is “a terrorist nation,” “one of the worst regimes in history,” that it’s twice-elected leader is “the son of the devil,” and dictator of this “fascist” country. Further, “patriotism” is taught by dragging an American flag across the classroom floor, because the nation’s truest patriots, as we should know by now, are those who are most able to despise it.
This is only high school, remember: in college things get much, much worse.
Two generations, now, are being raised on this poison, and the reason for that is this: the enemies of this city cannot come out and simply say, “Do not defend the city.” Even the smartest among us can see that is simple treason. But they can say, “The City is not worth defending.” So they say that, and they say that all the time and in as many different ways as they are able.
If you step far enough back to look at the whole of human history, you will begin to see a very plain rhythm: a heartbeat of civilization. Steep climbs out of disease and ignorance into the light of medicine and learning — and then a sudden collapse back into darkness. And it is in that darkness that most humans have lived their lives: poor, nasty, brutish, and short.
The pattern is always the same: at the height of a civilization’s powers something catastrophic seems to occur — a loss of will, a failure of nerve, and above all an unwillingness to identify with the values and customs that have produced such wonders.
The Russians say a fish rots from the head down. They ought to know. It may not be factually true that Nero fiddled while Rome burned, the saying has passed into common usage because the image as the ring of truth to it: time and time again, the good and decent common people have manned the walls of the city, and have been ready to give their lives in its defense, only to discover too late that some silk-robed son of a bitch has snuck out of the palace at midnight and thrown open the gates to the barbarians outside.
And how is this done, this “throwing open of the gates?” How are defenders taken off the walls?
Well, most of what I learned about Vietnam I learned from men like Oliver Stone. This self-loathing narcissist has repeatedly tried to inculcate in me a sense of despair and outrage at my own government, my own culture, my own people and ultimately myself. He tried to convince me — and he is a skillfull man — that my own government murdered my own President for political gain. I am told daily in those darkened temples that rogue CIA elements run a puppet government, that the real threat to the nation comes from the generals that defend it, or from the businessmen that provide the prosperity we take for granted.
I sit with others in darkened rooms, watching films like Redacted, Stop-Loss, and In the Valley of Elah, and see our brave young soldiers depicted as murderers, rapists, broken psychotics or ignorant dupes –visions foisted upon me by bitter and isolated millionaires such as Brian de Palma and Paul Haggis and all the rest.
I’ve been told this story in some form or another, every day of every week of the past 30 years of my life. It wasn’t always so.
But it is certainly so today. And standing against all this hypnotic power — the power of the mythmakers in Hollywood, the power of the information peddlers in the media, the corrosive power of America-hating professors on every campus in America… against all that we find an old warrior — a paladin if ever there was one — an old, beat-up warhorse standing up in defense of his city one last time. And beside him: a wonder. A common person… just a regular mom who goes to work, does a difficult job with intelligence and energy and grace and every-day competence and then puts it away to go home and have dinner with the family.
Against all of that stand these two.
No wonder they must be destroyed. Because — Sarah Palin especially — presents a mortal threat to these people who have determined over cocktails who the next President should be and who now clearly mean to grind into metal shards the transaxle of their credibility in order to get the result they must have. Truly, they are before our eyes destroying the machine they have built in order to get their victory. What the hell is so threatening to be worth that?
Only this: the living proof that they are not needed. Not needed to govern, not needed to influence and guide, not needed to lecture us on our intellectual and moral failings which are visible only from the heights of Manhattan skyscrapers or the palaces up on Mulholland Drive. Not needed. We can do it — and do it better — without all o f them.
When all is said and done, Civilizations do not fall because of the barbarians at the gates. Nor does a great city fall from the death wish of bored and morally bankrupt stewards presumably sworn to its defense. Civilizations fall only because each citizen of the city comes to accept that nothing can be done to rally and rebuild broken walls; that ground lost may never be recovered; and that greatness lived in our grandparents but not our grandchildren. Yes, our betters tell us these things daily. But that doesn’t mean we have to believe it.
Ask the common people of all politics and persuasions aboard Flight 93 whether greatness and courage has deserted America. Through this magical crystal ball — the one we are using right now — we common people can speak to one another. And by reminding ourselves and those around us of who we are, where we came from, what we have achieved together and of the marvels we have yet to achieve, we may laugh in the face of despair and mock those people that think a man with an MBA from Harvard knows more about running a gas station than the man that actually runs the gas station.
It is the small-town virtues of self-reliance, hard work, personal responsibility, and common-sense ingenuity — and not those of the preening cosmopolitans that gape at them in mixed contempt and bafflement — that have made us the inheritors of the most magnificent, noble, decent and free society ever to appear on this earth. This Western Civilization… this American City… has earned the right to greet each sunrise with a blast of silver trumpets that can bring down mountains.
And what, really, is a Legion of Narcissists and a Confederacy of Despair against that?—
NightmareOnKStreet on October 2, 2008 at 9:00 PM
I don’t know why I was too nervous to watch the McCain debate, but I’m ready to watch Governor Palin.
I think it’s because EVERYTHING is stacked against her (the moderator was the final straw), so what do we have to lose?
Also, Dick Morris just said he thinks Obama has peaked too soon…..God, I hope so.
P.S. I look at the Fox pundits and I think. “they are big useless elites like the politicians generating this bailout/pork-fest”…..GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY!
Let’s roll.
ex-Democrat on October 2, 2008 at 9:00 PM
God be with you Governor Palin.
carbon_footprint on October 2, 2008 at 9:00 PM
If Biden doesn’t bite off his own tongue he wins.
If Palin performs flawlessly, she’ll be considered overcoached.
profitsbeard on October 2, 2008 at 9:01 PM
wouldn’t it be great if ifill doesn’t have the brakes on her wheelchair and she rolls off the stage?
rsdm9154 on October 2, 2008 at 9:01 PM
OK here we go…
JonPrichard on October 2, 2008 at 9:01 PM
Now is the time for all good men to….*hic*
ManlyRash on October 2, 2008 at 9:01 PM
NERVOUS NERVOUS NERVOUS- sorry for the screams…
talk to y’all later!!!! gotta watch.
kareyk on October 2, 2008 at 9:01 PM
Stand up Gwen and let ‘em see ya!
carbon_footprint on October 2, 2008 at 9:02 PM
Pray or send good energy for Sarah’s strength.
NightmareOnKStreet on October 2, 2008 at 9:02 PM
I’m Gwen Ifill…..welcome to George Orwell auditorium.
ex-Democrat on October 2, 2008 at 9:02 PM
I am a wreck. I am not sure I will be able to stay with the thread. Did you guys know that there is another open thread since people were unhappy with the refresh time?
Cindy Munford on October 2, 2008 at 9:02 PM
You go girl pretend Biden is a moose and 0B0mber a caribou.
dhunter on October 2, 2008 at 9:02 PM
Who here thinks Joe doesn’t have the questions?
}}} crickets {{{
ex-Democrat on October 2, 2008 at 9:03 PM
Ifill title banner should have read,”Bias Moderator” Gwen Ifill
Nelsa on October 2, 2008 at 9:03 PM
Go Sarah!!
CinnamongirlUF on October 2, 2008 at 9:03 PM
Ifill wearing a haute quilted Mao jacket.
Obama’s pimpette pretending she isn’t a partisan panderer.
profitsbeard on October 2, 2008 at 9:03 PM
“Hey can I call you Joe?” Great start Sarah!
NightmareOnKStreet on October 2, 2008 at 9:03 PM
GOOOOOO Sarah… Can I call you Joe.
Over.
1GooDDaDDy on October 2, 2008 at 9:03 PM
Great she wrote the questions… Sarah will do well regardless!
CCRWM on October 2, 2008 at 9:03 PM
Biden is setting up for her to hit a home run…
electric-rascal on October 2, 2008 at 9:04 PM
Ummm….I think Joe is the one overcoached…..what a maroon.
ex-Democrat on October 2, 2008 at 9:04 PM
Biden said yes to the Joe question and then called her Governor. :)
Nelsa on October 2, 2008 at 9:04 PM
ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!
WisCon on October 2, 2008 at 9:04 PM
Here we go. Biden blaming Bush economic policies!
Sarah better rebut this well!!!
Steve Z on October 2, 2008 at 9:05 PM
Apparently Biden doesn’t know what the Community Reinvestment Act is.
Ryan Gandy on October 2, 2008 at 9:05 PM
Gooooooooo Sarahhhhhhhh!!
CinnamongirlUF on October 2, 2008 at 9:05 PM
so far so good!
CinnamongirlUF on October 2, 2008 at 9:06 PM
Sarah does look a little nervous, but she will settle down I think..
Nelsa on October 2, 2008 at 9:06 PM
she missed that one
rsdm9154 on October 2, 2008 at 9:07 PM
Not bad.
Should have hit him on the “failed economic policies” though.
WisCon on October 2, 2008 at 9:07 PM
Palin needs to lose the folksy “betcha” crap.
This is serious stuff, and needs steel, not silk.
profitsbeard on October 2, 2008 at 9:07 PM
Damn – I think they’ve tempered her. She blamed “people” – not Democrats!
dugan on October 2, 2008 at 9:07 PM
She got in that McCain tried to reform Fannie and Freddie, but didn’t blame Democrats…
Steve Z on October 2, 2008 at 9:08 PM
Sarah definitely came back with a good rebuttal to that last one.
Ryan Gandy on October 2, 2008 at 9:08 PM
Nice!
WisCon on October 2, 2008 at 9:08 PM
Obama said the “fundementals” were stong even after McCain did.
Nelsa on October 2, 2008 at 9:08 PM
relax Sarah relax
rsdm9154 on October 2, 2008 at 9:08 PM
Did she just wink at us?
mycowardice on October 2, 2008 at 9:08 PM
Great for Sarah…she owned that answer yesss!
CCRWM on October 2, 2008 at 9:09 PM
Sarah-You are OLD and have been around too long! LOL
Nelsa on October 2, 2008 at 9:09 PM
Who was at fault–gotta pounce here!
Steve Z on October 2, 2008 at 9:10 PM
mycowardice on October 2, 2008 at 9:08 PM
I don’t know. Did she?
Ryan Gandy on October 2, 2008 at 9:10 PM
I’m disappointed… Sarah could have spoke the truth that it was the DEMOCRATS that caused the loan mess, instead she blames the bankers and Wall St.
electric-rascal on October 2, 2008 at 9:10 PM
Totally whiffed on that one. Predatory lending? BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT MANDATED IT!
WisCon on October 2, 2008 at 9:10 PM
Strict Oversight!!! Spoken like a true Democrat!
mycowardice on October 2, 2008 at 9:11 PM
They must have focus groups about “greedy Wall Street??”
What about the FREAKIN’ DEMS AND THEIR SOCIALIST POLICIES??
sigh
ex-Democrat on October 2, 2008 at 9:11 PM
They just lost – refusing to blame Dems, Congress for the current problem. Bad start to this debate, they’re making her play populist.
dugan on October 2, 2008 at 9:11 PM
Her bangs are stuck in her eyelashes..
Nelsa on October 2, 2008 at 9:11 PM
She needs to mentions – Checks and Balances -
Where was Barney Frank?
iam7545 on October 2, 2008 at 9:11 PM
That’s my girl!
Saltysam on October 2, 2008 at 9:11 PM
Sarah attacks no party, but Biden attacks McCain. You lost that one Sarah.
electric-rascal on October 2, 2008 at 9:11 PM
electric-rascal on October 2, 2008 at 9:10 PM
Yeah. I was kind of expecting that too.
Ryan Gandy on October 2, 2008 at 9:12 PM
She’s got to attack and she’s not doing it :(
Priscilla on October 2, 2008 at 9:12 PM
Obama warned something? No–McCain did!
Steve Z on October 2, 2008 at 9:12 PM
Was that an Indian Guy Joe?
Nelsa on October 2, 2008 at 9:12 PM
Why didnt she start witht CRA and outline the Dems role???
CCRWM on October 2, 2008 at 9:13 PM
go girlllll
CinnamongirlUF on October 2, 2008 at 9:13 PM
Game over. They turned Palin into a populist and made her let the Dems off the hook. She just lost the election with that answer right there. It’s over folks. All hail President Obama. I’m gonna be sick.
holygoat on October 2, 2008 at 9:13 PM
I think her aim is just to spout talking points instead of engaging the enemy and going for the jugular.
electric-rascal on October 2, 2008 at 9:13 PM
electric-rascal on October 2, 2008 at 9:11 PM
I don’t think she did. If anyone needs to look pathetic, let’s allow Biden to do it.
Ryan Gandy on October 2, 2008 at 9:13 PM
Sarah is starting to find her groove!
Nelsa on October 2, 2008 at 9:14 PM
Palin needs to stop with the “darn” and “heck” talk. It’s just too much…and I’m a MAJOR Palin fan.
themediansib on October 2, 2008 at 9:14 PM
It sounds like Biden’s tactic tonight will be to debate McCain in absentia rather than Palin.
Unfortunately, Palin seems to be as ignorant of the economic crisis as McCain.
FloatingRock on October 2, 2008 at 9:14 PM
stop being so nice kick him in the balls!!!!
rsdm9154 on October 2, 2008 at 9:14 PM
Predatory lendors!!? They’re blowing it. McCain, you suck and you’ve turned a perfectly good citizen into an effingg washington zombie. But it only took you 3 weeks. Nice work. Now we have to wait for Plugs’s white gaff caps to make up the diff.
Western_Civ on October 2, 2008 at 9:14 PM
So far, she is supporting her Principal reasonably well.
CC
CapedConservative on October 2, 2008 at 9:14 PM
Talk straight to us and straight around the question!
mycowardice on October 2, 2008 at 9:15 PM
This is awful. What the hell is she doing?
WisCon on October 2, 2008 at 9:15 PM
OOHHHH-She just put in jab to Ifill!!!!! LOL
Nelsa on October 2, 2008 at 9:15 PM
Biden is having a bit of trouble controlling his expressions while Palin is talking. He is doing it so far, but he doesn’t like it.
MB4 on October 2, 2008 at 9:15 PM
Puke, thanks RINO’s for the most toothless ticket in Republican history. Like her boss, she is letting the dems define history and replying with garbage like “Darn Tootin”. Jesus Fn Christ.
ClassicCon on October 2, 2008 at 9:15 PM
Guess it is not “PC”.
Here she goes, back to taxes! And her resume…. GO!
gxpgxp on October 2, 2008 at 9:15 PM
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