AIDS 100 years old?
posted at 1:10 pm on October 2, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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This puts a dent in the government-conspiracy theory that claimed AIDS came from a biological weapons program of the 1970s. Researchers now believe that the HIV virus that causes AIDS may have jumped from chimpanzees to humans as long as 100 years ago. The scientific journal Nature published research today that uses several data points to track the course of the mutations from the original virus, and puts the initial infection within a 40-year span between 1884 and 1924 in Africa:
Genetic analysis pushes the estimated origin of HIV back to between 1884 and 1924, with a more focused estimate at 1908. …
Researchers note that the newly calculated dates fall during the rise of cities in Africa, and they suggest urban development may have promoted HIV’s initial establishment and early spread.
Scientists say HIV descended from a chimpanzee virus that jumped to humans in Africa, probably when people butchered chimps. Many individuals were probably infected that way, but so few other people caught the virus that it failed to get a lasting foothold, researchers say.
But the growth of African cities may have changed that by putting lots of people close together and promoting prostitution, Worobey suggested. “Cities are kind of ideal for a virus like HIV,” providing more chances for infected people to pass the virus to others, he said.
Perhaps a person infected with the AIDS virus in a rural area went to what is now Kinshasa, Congo, “and now you’ve got the spark arriving in the tinderbox,” Worobey said.
In truth, the conspiracy theories were already dead with the proven existence of HIV in Kinshasa in 1959. That would have predated any extensive viral work in biological weapons, and the second discovery in 1960 showed enough genetic variation that it was clear the initial infection came long before either of these two data points. Of course, actual data and science usually has little effect on paranoid conspiracy theorists, but they tend to inoculate many more potential victims of that lunacy.
This new theory fits with the notion that the industrial age and the growth of urban areas have much to do with the incubation of new diseases. The question will be how many other diseases are entering the human population as a result? How do we keep such outbreaks isolated in an era of mass transit, combined with all of the eternal human problems of war, starvation, prostitution, and poverty?
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Gaetan Dugas could not be reached for comment.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 2, 2008 at 1:12 PM
Is 1908 supposed to be the year that god threw satan out of heaven? Or was that 1914? I remember reading that about jehovah’s witnesses, maybe?
lorien1973 on October 2, 2008 at 1:12 PM
“Not God Bless America!
God damn America!”
blatantblue on October 2, 2008 at 1:12 PM
Again, just to point out, AIDS and HIV are two different viruses. HIV does not mean you have AIDS, just that it is likely that you will contract it.
MadisonConservative on October 2, 2008 at 1:13 PM
I keep waiting for Flu to start killing large numbers in some Developing World city and spreading from there… I’ve got to get my bug out bag ready for when I need to head for the hills.
Vatican Watcher on October 2, 2008 at 1:14 PM
Ask John McCain.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 2, 2008 at 1:14 PM
You don’t. It is appointed once unto every man to die. I read that somewhere, and it’s confirmed by observation.
Whether it’s from infectious disease or parking your butt in a Lazy Boy with a bag of chips, something will get you. It is inevitable. Quit worrying about death, and learn instead to love your life and enjoy it while you have it.
paul006 on October 2, 2008 at 1:15 PM
CIA injected the slaves 100 years ago?
Karl Rove is over 100 years old?
right2bright on October 2, 2008 at 1:15 PM
No, this just proves the government connection;-) After all, we now have scientific proof that “Chimpy” gave us AIDS.
unclesmrgol on October 2, 2008 at 1:15 PM
Just to be clear MadCon, HIV is the etiologic agent responsible for AIDS.
People don’t die from AIDS. They die from an infection and/or cancer after the total collapse of the immune system.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 2, 2008 at 1:16 PM
Rock Hudson could not be reached for comment.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 2, 2008 at 1:17 PM
its likely been around in some form longer than that
jp on October 2, 2008 at 1:17 PM
That’s it. I’m getting rid of the Lazy Boy and eating my chips elsewhere!
unclesmrgol on October 2, 2008 at 1:19 PM
Uh… I thought HIV was the virus and AIDS is the condition you eventually develop as stuff like pneumonia kills you because HIV has already wiped out your immune system?
Vatican Watcher on October 2, 2008 at 1:19 PM
happy 100th birthday aids.
happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday h.i.v. aiiiids, happy birthday…to….you!
venicesurfer on October 2, 2008 at 1:19 PM
Worse than AIDS, liberal Peasant Politics seems to be spreading among the ignorant, those tragic victims of a corrupt educational system that twists the lessons of history, if it bothers to teach them at all. We should be working on a vaccine, but I fear that’s some years off.
mr.blacksheep on October 2, 2008 at 1:22 PM
But… but… but, I thought AIDS was a disease conjured up by the white man to wipe out the black population! Reverend Wright said so!
This report couldn’t be right.
/s
ErinF on October 2, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Ding ding ding.
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 2, 2008 at 1:23 PM
Check “The Last Centurion” by John Ringo to see how the wrong leadership can convert a bad situation into a total disaster. Caution, the material may induce nightmares.
El Coqui on October 2, 2008 at 1:23 PM
HIV lowers your T-cell count. If it lowers enough, AIDS is basically in play. HIV treatment works to restore T-cells and avoid AIDS, as it were. Regular infections don’t affect you unless your T-cell count is low enough for them to. AIDS is essentially the point of no return, where anything and everything can attack you.
Quite right.
MadisonConservative on October 2, 2008 at 1:23 PM
Well alrighty then.
Now that we have that cleared up, can someone please help Cynthia McKinney find those 5,000 bodies?
Brat on October 2, 2008 at 1:24 PM
Keep saying things like that, and Steve Chapman will start calling you a small town snob.
MarkTheGreat on October 2, 2008 at 1:24 PM
That sounds right as AIDS is an immuno-deficiency syndrome. Not a virus. HIV has that corner on the market. AIDS is the syndrome resulting from HIV infection.
thomashton on October 2, 2008 at 1:25 PM
AIDS is not a virus. Is it a syndrome that is caused by the HIV virus. Being HIV positive does not mean that you have AIDS. But it does mean that you will some day.
MarkTheGreat on October 2, 2008 at 1:26 PM
Doesn’t everyone know that Chester Arthur was not only a closet racist, but also a closet molecular biologist. He commissioned the top-secret Arthur-Negro-Aids Research program(ANAR, 1882-1884), which has just recently been declassified, with the vision statement of “infecting every negro with a fatal and incurable immune deficiency sickness”. /sarc
lionheart on October 2, 2008 at 1:26 PM
Fixed it.
Right_of_Attila on October 2, 2008 at 1:27 PM
This I know for certain: AIDS does not kill heterosexual, non-drug using, non-blood transfusion and circumsized men nearly as much as all the media hype would have you believe.
carbon_footprint on October 2, 2008 at 1:27 PM
thomashton on October 2, 2008 at 1:25 PM
MarkTheGreat on October 2, 2008 at 1:26 PM
Wondertwin powers . . . ACTIVATE!
Form of a waterfall.
Mark, form of?
thomashton on October 2, 2008 at 1:27 PM
Damn you Republican President Theodore Roosevelt and your playing God with monkeys!
It’s always those rascally RePUKElicans!
Abby Adams on October 2, 2008 at 1:28 PM
You do it better.
Abby Adams on October 2, 2008 at 1:30 PM
Not necessarily. Current treatments can postpone the reaching of the critical T-cell level, although they are prohibitively expensive. One of my father’s closest friends has been HIV+ for the better part of two decades, and has managed to avoid descending into the AIDS stage, mostly through the use of antiretrovirals.
MadisonConservative on October 2, 2008 at 1:30 PM
[quote]This puts a dent in the government-conspiracy theory that claimed AIDS came from a biological weapons program of the 1970s.[/quote]
aha no it just makes the conspiracy grander!
Rowsdower on October 2, 2008 at 1:30 PM
I am disgusted at the comments in this thread. People are dying at the hand of this vile virus, while haters on rightyblogs sing and dance.
Please show some consideration to the downtrodden monkeyhumpers, prostitutes and the needle-sharing addicts. $48 billion to Africa would be a good start.
/eyeroll
innominatus on October 2, 2008 at 1:32 PM
Maybe Stephen King was right… Captain Trips is coming
originalpechanga on October 2, 2008 at 1:33 PM
SUV and oil companies conspiracyized to create HIV AND Gorebal Warming!!!!
Wright was Right!!!
aAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhh
cntrlfrk on October 2, 2008 at 1:34 PM
Magic Johnson has been around for quite awhile as well.
Illinidiva on October 2, 2008 at 1:37 PM
Did I miss it or is there no link to homosexual activity?
Christine on October 2, 2008 at 1:37 PM
Hey Mr. Holier-than-thou, hope no-one in your family ever gets it.
Grow Fins on October 2, 2008 at 1:39 PM
I knew if I threw some chum in the water some finned creature would bite.
innominatus on October 2, 2008 at 1:41 PM
I remember several years ago, the CDC made a quiet change to their counting. They decided to lump all imuno-deficiency diseases together for the purpose of inflating the number reported to make HIV/AIDS appear to be a bigger problem than it really was at that time.
CC
CapedConservative on October 2, 2008 at 1:42 PM
This is just further proof that Karl Rove has a time machine, in addition to a weather machine (the deluxe model, the one where you can steer hurricanes where ever you want).
rbj on October 2, 2008 at 1:42 PM
And Randall Flagg on his heels?
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 2, 2008 at 1:42 PM
Olbercrank makes Ed WPOTW in 5-4-2-1….ooops, forgot 3!
Limerick on October 2, 2008 at 1:44 PM
Those chimps in 1908 were ridin’ dirty!!!!
LibTired on October 2, 2008 at 1:47 PM
(fingers in ears..lalalalalala) HIV and AIDS are a product of the VRWC and none of yer “science” stuff is gonna change that fact.
HawaiiLwyr on October 2, 2008 at 1:49 PM
The HIV-AIDS connection gets yet another kick in the head….
so, HIV’s been around for 100 years and it wasn’t until the explosion of gay sex that it became “epidemic
color me doubtful….
max1 on October 2, 2008 at 1:50 PM
The Chicago Cubs last won the World Series in 1908, coincidence?
zmdavid on October 2, 2008 at 1:51 PM
Well………..
For healthy individuals, the risk of contracting HIV is quite low. For individuals with an untreated STD, the risk is very high. The reason is that the untreated STD stimulates inflammation which causes macrophages and T-cells of the immune system to be attracted to the site of the infection (genitals). The macrophages and T-cells are the body’s defenses attempting to combat the STD. HIV needs to enter these cells to establish an infection. With the inflammation caused by the STD (and associated increase in macrophages), the odds are more likely that HIV passed during intercourse will infect macrophages and T-cells.
Other sexual practices will cause inflammation. The act of male homosexual intercourse will cause inflammation to those tissues of the gastrointestinal system. Also, after an individual is infected with HIV, the gastrointestinal system serves as a significant reservoir for the virus. Therefore, the practice of male homosexual intercourse further increases the risk for contracting infection by the virus. Factor into this, too, is the subculture of the MSM (men who have sex with men) community that are “bug chasers“.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 2, 2008 at 1:52 PM
Those chimps in 1908 were ridin’ dirty!!!!
LibTired on October 2, 2008 at 1:47 PM
HAHAHHAAAAAA!!!!! that a real Kneeee-slaappaaaah!
max1 on October 2, 2008 at 1:53 PM
It came down from Halley’s Comet’s appearance in 1910.
eaglewingz08 on October 2, 2008 at 1:54 PM
One of these things is not like the others.
misterpeasea on October 2, 2008 at 1:55 PM
But that is the best that you can do. Because the virus so rapidly mutates, the virus will eventually become resistant to the antiretroviral therapies. Once that occurs, his levels of CD4-positive T-cells will decline. Hence, there is a need for further research into new lines of antiretroviral treatment to extend (but not cure) patients’ lives.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 2, 2008 at 1:56 PM
Yeah it was a plot concocted by the Teddy Roosevelt administration, and he had to go on television to denounce it.
J.J. Sefton on October 2, 2008 at 1:59 PM
I had no idea that Congressman Frank was 100 years old.
NoDonkey on October 2, 2008 at 2:01 PM
I remember that! The Harper’s engravers were working double shifts to get the images up on time!
Limerick on October 2, 2008 at 2:01 PM
The Tunguska event (thought to be a comet impact in Tunguska, Russia) was in 1908.
zmdavid on October 2, 2008 at 2:03 PM
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 2, 2008 at 1:52 PM
Thank you for such a complete explanation. I was aware of most of what you said above but the link reminded me that too many gay men have a death wish and it reinforces my POV that anal sex cannot be seriously considered an act of love for these and other reasons. (In the animal world, it is considered an act of domination.) It also describes an aspect of the culture of death that the left defends, encourages and therefore perpetuates. (Another reason to bite the bullet and vote for McCain.)
Christine on October 2, 2008 at 2:06 PM
Practially no chance unless they are buggers or dope fiends.
Akzed on October 2, 2008 at 2:10 PM
Wrong. HIV has never been proven to cause AIDS. NEVER.
fossten on October 2, 2008 at 2:14 PM
That is also about the time influenza became a pandemic. I read that the influenza epidemic in 1918 killed more people than WW1. Bad time.
Terrye on October 2, 2008 at 2:24 PM
That’s what you get for not hailing to the chimp.
Grafted on October 2, 2008 at 2:38 PM
Does that include HPV?
MadisonConservative on October 2, 2008 at 2:40 PM
Wow, what big news. Scientists now say HIV is 22 years older than they originally thought.
So whatever ‘dent’ was put into the theory that the CIA created HIV was already there long before this study came out. That doesn’t make for a sensationalist headline to draw readership though…
Bill Scrunty on October 2, 2008 at 2:41 PM
So they were trying to exterminate Blacks all the way back then?
Are you sure it wasn’t butches jumping chimps?
Hening on October 2, 2008 at 2:41 PM
I came to this thread to see if any of the “HIV doesn’t cause AIDS” nutjobs would show up. I was not disappointed.
Hollowpoint on October 2, 2008 at 2:44 PM
It’s crazy fun to throw out statements like that, and to just leave us hanging as to whether you’re mental or just having a little fun with us, isn’t it?
I don’t seem to remember the CDC or NIH backing up your claim.
Anna on October 2, 2008 at 2:46 PM
Taken out of context, that’s quite a wild looking picture on the home page. Like an octopus on a coral reef.
Anna on October 2, 2008 at 2:47 PM
Incorrect.
O’Brien, S.J. and J.J. Goedert. 1996. HIV causes AIDS: Koch’s postulates fulfilled. Current Opinions in Immunology. 8 (5): 613-618.
Human Immunodeficiency Virus: DOES HIV CAUSE AIDS?
Also a good one to read.
The AIDS Pandemic: The Collision of Epidemiology With Political Correctness (J. Chin, 2007)
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 2, 2008 at 2:49 PM
Maybe you’re doing it wrong?
Also, and more seriously, the failed AIDS vaccine, AIDVAX, had different effects on blacks and Asians than it did on whites. What would account for that?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/10/4/l_104_05.html
(From the link:)
“Recently, scientists were astonished to find that some individuals did not become infected with HIV, even after repeated exposure to the deadly virus.”
“In some Northern European populations it is relatively common. In Southern Europeans it is more rare, and it is almost entirely absent in Africans, Asians, and Native Americans. Logically, the mutation must have occurred in the past, acting as a defense against a different, previous epidemic caused — like the AIDS epidemic — by a pathogen that also targeted white blood cells. ”
“Reading a chronological history, biologists traced the HIV-resistance gene mutation back about 700 years. That was the time at which the Black Death — bubonic plague — swept like a deadly scythe through Europe, killing one-third of the population.”
red_sleeves on October 2, 2008 at 2:51 PM
No. HPV infects skin and mucosal cells irrespective of inflammation. There are many strains of HPV. Some are associated with STD genital warts. Some are associated with ordinary skin warts. HPV infects skin cells and cells lining mucous membranes and causes those cells to divide abnormally.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 2, 2008 at 2:54 PM
red_sleeves on October 2, 2008 at 2:51 PM
While sitting in a waiting room I read an article like that. There was a certain gene that is fairly common eastern Europeans. Having one copy of that gene gave something like 20% resistance to HIV, and having copies from both parents gave like 90%. There was a trade-off in that people with these genes were more vulnerable to other infections – I don’t remember what those were, though.
innominatus on October 2, 2008 at 2:57 PM
There are people that believe that? You gotta be kidding me.
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 2, 2008 at 2:59 PM
It is CCR-5. CCR-5 is a co-receptor, along with CD4, that is required for the initial infection of HIV into macrophages and dendritic cells. After HIV has established an infection, the virus changes and starts looking for T-cells. Specifically, HIV start infecting helper T-cells. Helper T-cells are cells of the immune system that share one thing in common with the initial cells infected by HIV. Helper T-cells also have the CD4 receptor on the cell surface. Instead of looking for CCR-5, HIV infects helper T-cells by attaching to CD4 and another co-receptor called CXCR4.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 2, 2008 at 3:02 PM
I don’t understand it either, Grue. Eat to your heart’s content, though. Please. : )
Anna on October 2, 2008 at 3:02 PM
Well Grue, there are people that end their prayers with “In the name of Obama, Amen.”
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 2, 2008 at 3:03 PM
Watch this video in its entirety before you start calling people nutjobs. If you comment before you’ve watched it (which takes 2 hours, I will know you are full of crap.
People, just because you’ve been told something for decades doesn’t mean it’s true. The government told us this stuff, for crying out loud. Since when do we accept everything we’re told just because we saw it on the news?
fossten on October 2, 2008 at 3:04 PM
Ed, this can’t be. EVERYONE KNOWS the HIV virus was created by the CIA/FBI to kill black people. It happened right after the FBI found out that you can’t melt steel with fire, and just before the US Army killed 5,000 black prisoners in Louisana after that plane didn’t crash at the Pentagon. Of course if it hadn’t been for Katrina, AlQueda wouldn’t have thrown the Russians out of Afganistan. It’s all Karl Rove’s doing because Valerie Plame outed Richard Nixon. This is all true because Cynthia McKinney said so, and she’s bright, clean and articulate. And BTW, Richard Nixon’s Attorney General, Robert Mitchum invented Crack. Oh, ah yeah, not Mitchum, Mitchell.
GarandFan on October 2, 2008 at 3:05 PM
Look at the title of the thread. Clearly what we’ve been told is being challenged already. It is incredibly naive to assume that this is the only aspect of HIV that we’ve been lied to about.
Ask yourselves why you’ve always heard that if you get a positive result on an HIV test, you need to do another one to rule out a “false positive.” Also, do some research into why the man who invented the HIV test kit was indicted for fraud.
fossten on October 2, 2008 at 3:07 PM
Nope. If I remember correctly Dean Esmay was pushing this nonsense on his blog for quite some time; not sure if he still is.
They believe that even though 100% of those who’ve contracted AIDS are infected with HIV, AIDS is really just an undefined condition brought on by an unhealthy lifestyle often related to drug abuse or homosexual sex.
Hollowpoint on October 2, 2008 at 3:09 PM
A note about your beloved Dr. Duesberg from an article published in the June 2008 issue of Discover magazine.
I’m guessing you are a 9/11 Troofer, too?
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 2, 2008 at 3:12 PM
You know better than to call me a troofer. I’ve never once said anything of the sort. But I guess you just lump everybody into the same boat, eh?
Furthermore, your little quote is editorial, nothing more.
By the way, your beloved Dr. Gallo was discredited for fraud.
fossten on October 2, 2008 at 3:17 PM
Well that’s not surprising.
*eats*
Grue in the Attic on October 2, 2008 at 3:17 PM
Besides being such a magnificent bastard, Rove is a time traveller. One other thing he did was to go back to the 1990s to convince the Clinton administration that Saddam’s Iraq had WMDs, to give cover for the lies of his boss George W. Bush.
Bigfoot on October 2, 2008 at 3:17 PM
1908, eh? Just about the time that the Elders of Zion were writing their Protocols ( using the blood of Gentile babies, of course )
IT WAS THE JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS!!!!
counting down to Reverend Wright’s press conference…
Janos Hunyadi on October 2, 2008 at 3:18 PM
Nope, I’ll just stick to calling a nutjob a nutjob.
But hey- did you know there’s this totally awesome video called “Loose Change” you should watch. Just because the government told us that 9/11 was caused by Muslim hijackers, it doesn’t mean it’s true.
Hollowpoint on October 2, 2008 at 3:22 PM
You have two copies of each gene. Heterozygous means you have one normal gene and one delta 32 mutation indicating that you inherited the mutation from only one parent. Homozygous means both copies of the gene are the same; either both are normal or both delta 32 mutation indicating that you inherited the mutation from both parents.
So you could have no immunity, a slower rate of infection, or no infection.
An immune system response to the plague now protects against HIV some 700 years later.
red_sleeves on October 2, 2008 at 3:26 PM
There are plenty of tests that give false positives, and false negatives too. I’ve had both before, actually, both dealing with pregnancy tests (I had a false negative when I was already showing!).
Anna on October 2, 2008 at 3:30 PM
Heh.
HIV Troofers Unite!
Are there any Hindenburg Troofers in here? (Oh the humanity.)
Maybe the Red Sox actually won the ‘86 World Series. Are there any Bill Buckner Troofers in here?
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 2, 2008 at 3:30 PM
fossten on October 2, 2008 at 2:14 PM
fossten on October 2, 2008 at 3:04 PM
fossten on October 2, 2008 at 3:07 PM
Let’s play truther bingo. At 2:14 fossten disputes accepted scientific evidence by pretending it doesn’t exist.
“B”
At 3:04, we’ve got the appeal to some random conspiracist internet video. And you better watch all 2 hours or you can’t write it off as some lunatic babbling!
“I”
Bonus from the same post, the government always lies line.
“N”
And at 3:07, because scientific knowledge has been incomplete in the past, none of it can be trusted in the future.
“G”
And then the genetic fallacy (among other problems)…
“O”
…ftw. Bingo!
RightOFLeft on October 2, 2008 at 3:32 PM
Cwac Cwac, you left out an interesting excerpt from YOUR OWN article:
fossten on October 2, 2008 at 3:33 PM
EPT? You probably needed to adjust for windage…
red_sleeves on October 2, 2008 at 3:33 PM
Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Can I play? This is fun!
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 2, 2008 at 3:34 PM
Red herring much? Straw man much? You can’t argue the point, but then again, you know nothing about the subject, so you resort to name calling and guilt by association.
FAIL.
fossten on October 2, 2008 at 3:34 PM
It never indicated if that individual won the genetic lottery and had CCR-5 mutations. That has been clinically documented. See long term nonprogressors.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on October 2, 2008 at 3:36 PM
Oh, so now you’re going to argue instead of name call?
I read your article, which is more than I can say for you. It is interesting to note that you cherry picked the article, considering it is relatively sympathetic to Duesberg.
Are you going to do any research of your own, or are you going to just laugh it up with your name calling buddies and call it a day?
fossten on October 2, 2008 at 3:38 PM
Cwac, here’s another quote you probably didn’t read:
fossten on October 2, 2008 at 3:40 PM
Blood test. But your second sentence, when I got it (Fail, Anna, Epic Fail), has me still snickering.
Anna on October 2, 2008 at 3:40 PM
I know more than you do. I know HIV causes AIDS.
There is a chance of a false positive for almost every detection test imaginable. In detection theory, the main challenge is to design a test that is sensitive enough to avoid false negatives, but not so sensitive as to produce a false negative. The balanced solution will always leave a chance for false positives and false negatives.
RightOFLeft on October 2, 2008 at 3:41 PM
Lazy Boy with bag of chips for me! Thanks!
DarkCurrent on October 2, 2008 at 3:44 PM
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