my beliefs arise out of a sincere belief in upholding the value of human life.

Y-not on October 1, 2008 at 4:49 PM

I do not doubt your sincerity.

Human life does not have ‘value’ in and of itself. If the human race blinked out of existence tomorrow, nothing would weep for us. Discussion of ‘value’ at this level is the stuff of philosophical abstraction.

Human life only has real ‘value’ to others. Our American civilization is built upon the shared appreciation of such value.

Of what ‘value’ is a life that holds others’ lives in contempt? How abusive is it to insist that these wretches are to be housed, clothed and fed by decent people for the rest of their lives? I want nothing to do with these people, they are of no value to me. They are of no value to our civilization. Their choices and actions have determined their fate. They have defined themselves as valueless.

Perhaps expelling certain types of offenders to an “Escape from New York” colony would be useful, but this still begs the question of what are we seeking in justice?

Why should an individual be given a chance at continued life when they have extinguished that right in others? If their victim could have lawfully put a bullet in their head, why should the state not deliver the same justice by proxy? We are asking the state to do nothing that we cannot lawfully do ourselves.

Y-not on October 1, 2008 at 4:49 PM

Though I do not have you feeling concerning those on Death Row, I do agree on your comment concerning Sexual Offenders.

My Best Friend was a P.O. here in Alaska (whom has the largest population for Sexual offenders in the Country). I would pop by so she and I could go for lunch occationally. I never spoke to the people she had on her case load, nor did I bother trying. But for some reason a particular person had an eye out ofr me. He would NOT leave me alone. I never asked my Best Friend what her case load intailed as it was confidential, but this guy was really starting to get wierd to the point that he say me walking in the building, and began masterbating in a hallway so I could see him, but far enough away that it wasn’t totally on camera, but was still caught since my Best Friend was standing at the door.

Yes he went back to jail that day. I didn’t have to testify due to the nature of what he was doing. But after my Best Friend left that job.. I asked how many people were S.O.’s on her case load, and she said “all of them”. I didn’t ask what they did but I did ask if they could be rehabilitated, after that incident with the masterbating hallway man… she looked me square in the eys and said, “No, and those whom say they can are fooling themselves and the community.”

No sexual offender will ever be able to be normal, such as us. No DepoPrevera, No Castrating, not even the threat of Death will change these people. They are wired in the brain to be this way. It may deter them from doing something if the KNOW they may die… but most wouldn’t care… as they never care about their victims.

This isn’t my first time dealing with a sex offender, especially up here… it won’t be my last unfortunatly.

The myth of judicial independence is exactly that, language that can’t be found anywhere in the Constitution, but impeachment is there. Judicial independence is a court manufactured term, by the court, for the court, for the sole purpose, to put them above the law.

I don’t think that the death penalty will deter these crazy people from committing them

Your error in reasoning is rooted here : you presume that the law primarily exists to prevent crime.

There is a recent study that finds that the death penalty really does have a positive effect on potential offenders. Anyone?

SKYFOX on October 1, 2008 at 3:44 PM

I couldn’t find the study to which you referred, but I found this 2001 report from the Ohio of Rehabilitation and Corrections on a 10-year study of sex offenders recidivism which some might find of interest.

From the executive summary:

“The total sex-related recidivism rate, including technical violations of supervision conditions, was 11.0%.

Recidivism rates differed considerably based on a victim typology:

Sex offender type ……………. Gen. recid. ….. Sex recid
Rapists – (adult victims) ……….. 56.6% ………….. 17.5%
Child Molester – extrafamilial … 29.2% …………… 8.7%
Child Molester – incest …………. 13.2% …………… 7.4%

Sex offenders who returned for a new sex related offense did so within a few years of release. Of all the sex offenders who came back to an Ohio prison for a new sex offense, one half did so within two years, and two-thirds within three years.”

Although the general recidivism rate over 10 years was high, I was surprised that the recidivism rate for sex crimes was not higher. My father worked with sex offenders, murderers, and other really horrible criminals for a number of years in a state prison program designed to try to rehabilitate these guys and I know it is very hard to do. Many of them barely retain even a shred of humanity, they are so desensitized to the pain of others.

I believe that all human life has value and that all people are capable of redemption. In the case of people who have perpetrated such horrid acts, much of the remaining value in their life is its impact on society, not in that person’s goodness. In trying to rehabilitate them, our society learns important lessons and demonstrates its commitment to human life.

Personally, I have no compassion for people on death row, but I still think that our society would be better if we did not kill them. I know this is not a popular opinion amongst conservatives (my husband and I disagree on this issue, in fact) but my beliefs arise out of a sincere belief in upholding the value of human life.

LimeyGeek on October 1, 2008 at 3:59 PM

Agreed. Such narcissism and vile disregard for the child, making her/him into an object for sexual gratification is sociopathic. They DON’T CARE. Therefore, I don’t care about them. They should be destroyed. One of my in-laws works for the feds, he has seen too many of these people. They cannot be “cured.”

Phil Newkirk, you know nothing about pedophiles, when you say that the death penalty does not address the root of the problem. There is nothing to address. They must be eliminated for the sake of all children everywhere.

I don’t need to “understand” them. Like terrorists, there is nothing to understand. As Bernie Goldberg says, “when white men were lynching blacks in the south, did anyone try to ‘understand’ their hatred. NO. You don’t need to understand bigotry to know it exists.” The same thing here. There is nothing to understand. Once a pedophile. Always a pedophile.

Sorry so long. Pedophilia is unforgiveable and evil. It MUST be destroyed.

Akzed on October 1, 2008 at 3:55 PM

Such contempt for life should earn only one thing – a bullet.

It does not prevent further child rape by other perpetrators. Life imprisonment is just as effective for what you are trying to do.

philnewkirk on October 1, 2008 at 3:41 PM

It prevents further child rape by the individual rapist, and delivers a measure of justice for the individual victim(s). Killing the others, as and when we find them, will prevent further crimes on their part.

If it has any deterrent effect, all the better, but this is a secondary, or even tertiary, issue, not a primary one.

The very concept of using a legal system to manage aggregate levels of crime across a population is disgusting, and betrays a sociopathic pathology. We are uniquely valuable individuals, and deserve justice with this in mind, not to be treated as livestock in your sick little game.

It’s about justice, not social engineering.

There is a recent study that finds that the death penalty really does have a positive effect on potential offenders. Anyone?

SKYFOX on October 1, 2008 at 3:44 PM

Nope. Think about it, if a priest is willing to risk eternal damnation for molesting a child, what’s to stop the average perp.? I’ve read also that some get off on the challenge of fooling everyone.

philnewkirk

Well, it certainly does when we catch them and stretch their necks as well. Somebody help me here. There is a recent study that finds that the death penalty really does have a positive effect on potential offenders. Anyone?

The root cause of child rape is the existence of child rapists. Killing them all will certainly, and terminally, address the problem.

Awfully sorry it’s icky and unfashionable.

LimeyGeek on October 1, 2008 at 3:05 PM

It does not prevent further child rape by other perpetrators. Life imprisonment is just as effective for what you are trying to do.

The root cause of child rape is the existence of child rapists. Killing them all will certainly, and terminally, address the problem.

Awfully sorry it’s icky and unfashionable.

LimeyGeek on October 1, 2008 at 3:05 PM

I’m not sorry.

*eats*

I oppose the death penalty anyway, but this is spectacularly dishonest reasoning by the court’s majority.

Ditto, Ed, on both points.

Although I oppose the death penalty (I think our country is strong enough to address our broken judicial and prison systems before resorting to the ultimate penalty), this was a bad decision.

Contrary to some suggestions, I find no parallel between how we apply the death penalty in the U.S. and how it is applied in Iran. That’s just silly.

“The majority opinion, after an unpersuasive attempt to show that a consensus against the penalty existed, in the end came down” to its own judgment that the death penalty is too severe a punishment for a crime that does not result in death.

This is where I don’t get the “strict constructionist” judicial philosophy. Scalia is absolutely right about the basis for the majority opinion, but on what strictly constitutional basis can the death penalty be rejected for any crime? It seems all the court has to work with is the “cruel and unusual punishment” clause. That’s it. How does the court parse that phrase without appealing to mere conscience and public opinion?

LimeyGeek on Oct 1,2008 at 3:05PM.

LimeyGreek: I’m with you,that will fix the root problem
done good!!!

Gawd,who and the h#ll is worried about the
root problem,execute first,find the root
problem later!!!!!!!:)

Barbary cannot be corrected with barbary. Killing child rapists does not address the root causes.

philnewkirk on October 1, 2008 at 3:02 PM

Youhaven’t explained why you think this way? Bible and Christian Beliefs? Personal Opinion? You just have the most astringent Morals on the earth?

You don’t think that if someone raped and maybe mutilated a child of yours or a close friend, that you would feel the same?

My opinion is that you have never been in that prediciment, so you really have no clue as to how you would react.

Barbary cannot be corrected with barbary. Killing child rapists does not address the root causes.

philnewkirk on October 1, 2008 at 3:02 PM

The root cause of child rape is the existence of child rapists. Killing them all will certainly, and terminally, address the problem.

Awfully sorry it’s icky and unfashionable.

All child rapists should have the death penalty as an option. It should be available for any offender that has raped a child under that age of twelve.

Grow Fins and Phil Newkirk how would you feel if someone nearly raped you to death? Would the death penalty be applicable then? Neither Iran or a mob have anything to do w/it. This is about justice for people who are predators and have a nearly 100% recidivism rate.

Mrs Limey is lucky to have you!

upinak on October 1, 2008 at 2:56 PM

I’m an imported mail-order husband.

Apparently, the South was running short of real men ;)