Let our Christian brothers from the South stay. Deport the liberals.

Metro on October 1, 2008 at 7:05 PM

Metro, I hope I am not misunderstanding your earlier point.

But illegal aliens do not exhibit Christian behavior. Rather, illegal aliens exhibit Anti-Christ behavior because they have no respect for the law, contrary to Romans 13.

Genuine Christians do not commit Social Security number theft.

Genuine Christians do not commit Identity theft against others.

Genuine Christians do not participate in crime waves.

Genuine Christians do not lie or steal
or commit document fraud.

Genuine Christians do not rape, plunder, or murder others.

The whole purpose of the New Testament is to proclaim that salvation is rooted in the objective, finished work of the historical figure of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and not in a particular geographical context.

Illegal aliens exhibit un-Christian behavior. The fact that some Protestant and Catholic churches encourage and welcome illegal immigration and the accompanying relativism and lawlessness is a stark reminder of how much “Christian leaders” have forgotten the authority of the Bible.

I hope I am not misunderstanding your earlier post.

Either you have a much better opinion of our politicians or a much worse view towards American society than I do.

Hollowpoint on October 1, 2008 at 6:41 PM

Well, let me just put it into one specific example – BHO has a better than 50-50 chance of becoming President. That is a statement about American society, and not a flattering one. I happen to think that it is evidence of 9/11 PTSD combined with runaway white guilt, but whatever is causing it, it certainly speaks to the state of American society today. And that state was well illustrated in the poll that indicated that only 19% of BHO’s supporters think that SCOTUS decisions should be based on the Constitution. That is our society, today … unfortunately.

I would go into the more general idea of individualism as it appears in our Constitution and is the basis of our government/society but that takes much too much typing and I think you get my general drift.

There are always little blips of discontinuity, of course, as happens with individuals and their own actions versus their general personalities, but over the long term people’s personalities are well represented by their actions and societies are well represented by their governments.

Government is a primary aspect of society, not separate from it.

FloatingRock on October 1, 2008 at 6:46 PM

Government is an aspect of a particular society, but doesn’t define it.

To say that a government or economy is dysfunctional is far less provacative than calling an entire society dysfunctional. Few would disagree that Mexico’s government and economy are screwed up, even if they had overall positive feelings for the country as a whole.

Consider the target audience for this ad. Whatever your personal opinion towards Mexico, it’s people, culture, laws and government do you really think that a voter of Mexican heritage wouldn’t cringe at hearing a politician paint the entire society of their forefathers as “dysfunctional”?

Not forthcoming.

Hollowpoint on October 1, 2008 at 6:53 PM

He actually asked a pretty good question, one I’d like your answer to as well.

*eats*

Your rebuttal, sir?

leetpriest on October 1, 2008 at 6:48 PM

Not forthcoming. You are not worthy of my time. Let the nice sane people talk.

Either you have a much better opinion of our politicians or a much worse view towards American society than I do.

Hollowpoint on October 1, 2008 at 6:41 PM

Or perhaps you’re delusional or just plain stupid. Take Dodd, Frank, Cox, Paulson, Pelosi, Reid, Waters, Boxer, Obama, Clinton (The list goes on and on and on), and compare them to your average elitist liberal citizen. Compare them on terms of revenue and spending, lack of morality, distaste for life, hatred for guns, and self-righteous.

Your rebuttal, sir?

There’s a big difference between saying another country’s government is dysfunctional and saying their society is dysfunctional.

Hollowpoint on October 1, 2008 at 5:31 PM

Government is a primary aspect of society, not separate from it.

Either you have a much better opinion of our politicians or a much worse view towards American society than I do.

Hollowpoint on October 1, 2008 at 6:41 PM

I love America. The US is the best country I can think of to have grown up in, to work in, to live in. But there is a lot about America that makes my skin crawl as well… and I think not all but a lot of our politicians embody the worst of it.

It’s why it didn’t hit me at first exactly what BO meant when he said way back when things like “our country isn’t what it could be”… in a lot of ways I think similarly, it’s probably the ONLY thing I share with Obama-sama’s line of thought. The difference is the things we think are wrong are diametrically opposite.

*eats*

Would you have no problem if, in response to any particular US government policy, someone called American culture dysfunctional? Or do you believe that the US government and the politicians thereof are completely representative of society at large?

Hollowpoint on October 1, 2008 at 6:25 PM

Have you taken a moment to step outside of our country in the last 20 years?

I just left South Korea last year after being stationed there for a few years, and they hate us. They riot our military bases because our government and their government agreed on free trade.

There isn’t a country in this world that wouldn’t jump at the thought of calling us dysfunctional.

Yes. Our government represents our society very well.

progressoverpeace on October 1, 2008 at 6:30 PM

Either you have a much better opinion of our politicians or a much worse view towards American society than I do.

Gee, I wonder why the Republican party hasn’t done better with Hispanic voters. Can’t quite put my finger on it…

Hollowpoint on October 1, 2008 at 6:19 PM

Probably for the same reason that Democratic party hasn’t done well with Christians or Gun owners, smart ass.

Grue in the Attic on October 1, 2008 at 6:32 PM

Thanks, Grue.

*feeds*

Is it wrong of me to completely agree with Biden on this one???

truthmattersfa on October 1, 2008 at 6:24 PM

If it is, about half of us are just as wrong.

progressoverpeace on October 1, 2008 at 6:30 PM

+10. Awesome and exactly right on every point.

*eats*

A society and it’s government aren’t completely independent of each other, but a society is defined by it’s people, not it’s government. I’m sure you can think of some examples that illustrate the point.

For any extended period of time? I don’t think so. If you have an example in mind, I’d be happy to consider it. But, given the fact that there are many societies and many governments, there should be a plethora of such examples.

Would you have no problem if, in response to any particular US government policy, someone called American culture dysfunctional?

I don’t really care what others think of America. And our government is reflective of our society. Not in every single little decision, obviously, but for the great bulk of actions, policies, and attitudes.

Or do you believe that the US government and the politicians thereof are completely representative of society at large?

Hollowpoint on October 1, 2008 at 6:25 PM

Yes. Our government represents our society very well.

Are you saying that a society and its government are independent entities that bear no relation to each other? Really?

Governments are very good representations of their societies and neither strays very far from the other.

The ex-Spanish colonies are all pretty much basket cases.

progressoverpeace on October 1, 2008 at 6:18 PM

A society and it’s government aren’t completely independent of each other, but a society is defined by it’s people, not it’s government. I’m sure you can think of some examples that illustrate the point.

Would you have no problem if, in response to any particular US government policy, someone called American culture dysfunctional? Or do you believe that the US government and the politicians thereof are completely representative of society at large?

A society that openly takes a fat piss on a neighboring country’s immigration laws, consistently builds tunnels to funnel drugs, illegal aliens (which eats up your tax dollars, mind you), and enslaved prostitutes, and thinks that the sanitary way to cut up a watermelon is to kill a live chicken with a butcher knife first, and not clean it off before cutting up the watermelon with the same knife.

Yep, one hell of a society they have down in that wonderful country.

leetpriest on October 1, 2008 at 5:39 PM

Gee, I wonder why the Republican party hasn’t done better with Hispanic voters. Can’t quite put my finger on it…

Do you not see a difference between the society of a particular country and the government of that country? Would you say that American society should be defined by it’s government?

Hollowpoint on October 1, 2008 at 6:13 PM

Are you saying that a society and its government are independent entities that bear no relation to each other? Really?

Governments are very good representations of their societies and neither strays very far from the other.

The ex-Spanish colonies are all pretty much basket cases.